← The Epstein Chronicles
The Epstein Chronicles
Mega Edition: Vicky Ward And Her 2003 Profile Of Jeffrey Epstein (7/11/26)
01:19:11
Vicky Ward became part of the Epstein story through her 2003 Vanity Fair profile, “The Talented Mr. Epstein,” one of the earliest major magazine examinations of his mysterious wealth, relationship with Leslie Wexner and access to powerful people....
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But the things that we have seen throughout this case that she's been involved in are straight up disgusting. That puff piece that Vanity Fair pumped out in 2002 is just the creme de la creme of ridiculousness. And I know that she. She wants to put it all on Graydon Carter, right? Like it was all Graydon Carter's decision. But why didn't Vicky Ward just call an audible and bring it to somebody else to publish? Call Matt Drudge, call whoever, bring it to your local news station, call one of your colleagues. Being a journalist, there's a lot of responsibility with that, in my opinion. I think that you need to be held to a higher standard. And unfortunately, we never do that. It seems like our journalists are allowed to, you know, move around in the scum, and nobody ever calls them out. And they go around pumping all sorts of bs, nonsense, lies, garbage, propaganda. Nobody calls them out, they're proven wrong, and then people continue to listen to them. So it just boggles my mind that people would invest so much in these news personalities, in these talking heads, when we all know that they're not real journalists, they're not real newsmen, they're there to throw red meat to the base. And Vicky Ward was just another one to go along to get along, Right? Oh, as long as I have my Kush gig, as long as my paycheck keeps coming in, who cares if Jeffrey Epstein's an absolute disgusting predator? It's not my decision. Graydon Carter made that decision. Notice how everybody just pumps it off, right? Nobody ever wants to take responsibility. No. Nobody ever says, hey, look, the buck stops here. It's always somebody else's fault. Well, guess what, Vicky Ward, you're not getting off that easy. In my opinion. You played a huge part in dropping this smokescreen over Epstein and no amount of interviews or podcasts are ever going to change that, in my opinion. You had a chance to stop this shit, or at the very least put the brakes to it, and you failed. That's the way I see it. Alright, so today we have an article from the Daily Mail and obviously it's about Vicky Ward and the Venomous Epstein tapes. We'll get to those in a little while. Headline the Venomous Epstein Tapes. When Vicky Ward investigated Jeffrey Epstein, he, he tried to charm her, then threatened to get her sacked and put a curse on her unborn children. But she recorded it all. And what she reveals about Ghislaine Maxwell is shocking. Eh? Okay, sure, not trying to be a dick here or anything, but Vicky Ward really hasn't contributed much to this whole entire thing. Right now, all of a sudden she has a new podcast out. Two years after Epstein's arrest, two years after everybody you know that's in the world of independent content creation or independent journalism has already laid the case out for you with all of their thousands of hours of work. Now you have a podcast, now you're showing up to the party, now you're looking to cash in. Must be nice. Must be nice to have a bunch of shitbag friends in the legacy media to carry water for you. No worries, Vicki. We'll lay all the building blocks and you can just, you know, swoop in and snatch whatever you need and go ahead and enrich yourself a little bit more. This article was authored by Vicki Ward. Ghislaine Maxwell and I crossed paths soon after I moved to New York in 1997. Though she was a few years older than me, we were both English, Oxbridge educated and would sometimes be invited to the same parties. She was pin thin, expensively dressed, funny, fun, clever, worldly, and the effortless center of attention. Shocking, right? So for them here in America, we're used to, you know, the elite going to like Harvard together, right? Oh, he went to Harvard. Oh, we're from Harvard. Well, in England it's the same thing, but it's Oxford. Oh, I am Oxford educated. So right away, you know, Vicky Ward is already moving in them circles. She's already moving with the so called elite. Guess what? Breaking news, people like you and I, who didn't go to Oxford, who didn't go to Harvard, we're not invited to these parties unless we're the hired help. Unless you own a catering company or you own a company that's going to come in and set the chairs and tables up. Barring that, we are not invited to the same parties or functions that Vicky Ward and Ghislaine Maxwell were moving at. She talked about sex a lot and she liked to behave outrageously. During one Manhattan dinner I heard about, she told a British movie star to lie face down on the floor. She jumped on his back and gave him a massage right there on the ground in front of everyone. Even as people laughed, one observer wondered if what she was doing was not inappropriate. Oh yeah, you wondered if it was not inappropriate. Breaking news, alright? You're not supposed to lay your friend down at a restaurant and jump on their back and massage them, okay? Normal people don't do that. I mean, maybe if you're rolling on some ecstasy, that's acceptable, but barring that, I highly doubt that anyone finds it normal for somebody to get thrown on the ground and a massage tossed on them in the middle of a restaurant. You want to massage some meat in the restaurant, folks? Massage the tenderloin. Usually she was by herself. I had no idea whether or not she had a boyfriend. That's because she didn't have a boyfriend. Okay, Jeff, man, I don't know how many times I gotta. I gotta drill this one home. Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell were not boyfriend and girlfriend in the traditional sense. You want to get a better idea of their relationship and kind of a handle on how they rolled? Just go and watch the show the Americans and look how the family was put together by the intelligence apparatus and how they played their part. Because in my opinion, that's the same exact deal with Ghislaine and Jeffrey Epstein. There was never no love there. It was all fabricated and it was set in motion by, you know, the people that were handling them. Certainly wasn't this love story where these two passing boats met in the night. Give me a break with that BS. But then in the autumn of 2002, I was assigned to write an article for Vanity Fair magazine on about an intriguing and very rich man called Jeffrey Epstein. I soon discovered that Ghislaine had had a complicated relationship with Epstein for over a decade. Oh yeah, you had learned, huh? Now all of a sudden you're coming out with all your information, huh? There Vicky Ward. You know, there aren't many members of the media that I think fumbled the ball more than Vicki Ward when it comes to this story. She had a chance to put the brakes on this, folks. Remember that. Always keep that in the back of your mind. Hell, keep that in the front of your mind. When you're reading anything from her or she's pumping some new podcasts she wants you to listen to, just remember who you're dealing with. They didn't live together, I was told. Some sources claim she worked for him. Although Epstein later denied this, he insisted they were not romantically involved, instead telling me she was his best friend. And that was the. That was the Epstein line in all of this, right? So again, when people talk about how Maxwell and Epstein were like this couple and how, you know, they were together, boyfriend and girlfriend, it just falls on deaf ears to me, because it's just not fitting with reality of who these two are, right? These people are in it for them. And when you're in a relationship, you can't just be all about you, right? Not in a relationship that's gonna work. You have to be willing to give it up. You have to be willing to do things you don't wanna do, believe me. And you're gonna have to do things that you probably would never, ever do otherwise. When you love somebody, that's what happens. This was not a love story. This wasn't two people who met and fell in love and then were apart and then came back together in a field, running towards each other and a big hug in a meadow. No, this wasn't some love story. Don't try and paint this as that. This is two scoundrel, scummy, smarmy sons of bitches getting together to kick off a criminal enterprise no different than El Chapo and El Mayo, folks. Okay, What struck me as strange was that at the start of my reporting, I'd bumped into Ghislaine at a friend's baby shower. And when I mentioned I was writing this article, she started to cry. Um, okay, again, I don't really know one way or the other what that even means. So you're writing an article and Ghislaine Maxwell started to cry. Okay, Vicky Ward, you're so intimidating that Ghislaine Maxwell was so scared of you writing a puff piece that's gonna pump Jeffrey Epstein's tires that she started to cry. Give me a break. At the time, I put it down to how unequal their relationship seemed. I'd heard she loved him, and he did not love her back. She wanted to marry him and have children. Sources told me, though she had insisted otherwise. Meanwhile, he wanted to stay single and sleep with many other women, which he certainly did. Women, huh? Oh, yeah. I'M sure he slept with a couple of women, but you mean teenagers, right? That's really what you mean? Because that's his thing. That's what he preferred. Vicky Ward, Even in this piece, she can't go all the way. Even in this piece, she can't bring herself to stop pumping his tires and go all out and call him what he was. And that's the biggest problem with these cowards. They're so worried about their big time career and their $60 million contract. By the way, why are they getting that much money to sit on the tv, talk shit and divide the country more? Sure, your guys are doing a great job. Here's 60 more million. These people should be making 65 grand a year, tops. And Vicky Ward and the rest of the scoundrels that laid cover fire for Epstein for all of these years, you are some of the worst of the worst. And Ghislaine, according to the sources, put up with this, they presumed because Epstein could provide her with the same lavish lifestyle she'd grown up with as the daughter of the late crooked media mogul Robert Maxwell. So that's the narrative that they want pushed. So that's the narrative that they put out there. I'm not buying it. You all know here on this podcast, we're gonna challenge the narrative. Oh, yeah, Ghislaine Maxwell. Of all the guys in the world that had money, it was Jeffrey Epstein that she had to go be with. Right, because he was so rich she couldn't find somebody in England. Her boy Prince Andrew couldn't have hooked her up. Give me a break, man. How can anyone honestly buy that bs? I don't know. I see right through it. There's no way that the narrative they're pitching about Maxwell and Epstein being in love and Maxwell wanting to be with Epstein forever, none of that shit's real, okay? That's. That's a fantasy. It's as much of a fantasy as Game of Thrones, in my opinion. After his bizarre death in 1991, Robert's children, two of whom were accused but cleared of aiding their father's crime, were left, at least officially, more or less penniless. So Epstein looked after Ghislaine financially in return for her introducing him to the glitterati. That was the mythology. Yeah, no shit mythology. It's exactly what it was and is. And you're welcome, Vicky Ward and the rest of the scumbag legacy media morons out there who pilfer the work of independent content creators. Because if it wasn't for independent content Creators, independent journalists. None of this story would ever even be out there. Vicky Ward would still be counting her millions and yuck, fucking it up with her high society friends. Ghislaine Maxwell would still be moving around in them circles. Jean Luc Brunel wouldn't even be in jail. So Vicky Ward and the rest of these mainstream legacy media outlets that want to jump on board and act like they're getting credit for something here, well, they're not going to find themselves doing that without choppy waters in their way because they didn't lay the foundation for this shit. In fact, they've played a part of making this harder. In fact, with all of their power, all of their resources, all of their connections, they could have blown this Epstein story out of the water in 2002. Vicky Ward. But you didn't. But when I toured Epstein's house in 2002, 11 years after Robert Maxwell's death, there were photos everywhere of another ex girlfriend, former Miss Sweden Ava Anderson Dubin, but none that I saw of his best friend, Ghislaine. Well, that's because she was not his best friend. They were business associates. Okay? And you don't put pictures of your business associates up on the wall unless you're trying to floss like he was with Clinton. I asked him about this and he brushed it aside saying there were lots of photos of lots of people in the house. My 2002 article was on Epstein's money. What's up everybody? It's Bretzky. And America is turning 250. And I can't think of a better way to celebrate that than playing on an American owned social casino. Spinquest.com with all of your favorite games, live crabs, bubble craps, live blackjack. There's no better place to play for free and win real cash prizes. Spinquest.com Spin Quest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. No one knew how he'd become so rich. He lived in what he said was Manhattan's biggest private townhouse, a nine story mansion. He had a huge ranch in New Mexico, an island in the Caribbean and. And his own Boeing 727 on which he had recently flown Bill Clinton to Africa. And you know, you would think that that would be a whole lot more of an issue, right? I really wish that the legacy media and the people that love to protect a certain class here in this country would get on board. Don't you think Bill Clinton deserves as much scrutiny, as much derision as the other people in this case. But somehow the legacy media and a whole group of people who claim, oh, we're not biased, still sit around and protect Clinton. It's like the raccoons in the trash can, Folks sitting around and they're like, look, stay away from our garbage. I just don't understand it. I really don't understand it. Adding to the mystery, he rarely went out. It was said instead that wealthy and powerful people came to him. He claimed to manage the fortunes of billionaires. And that's another funky thing, right? That should have rang alarm bells. This dude holds court in his townhouse, doesn't really go to anybody else. Has everybody come to him? All these rich and powerful people, not only do they come to him, they stay and they talk and they, and I'm guessing, end up with a profile on themselves. Compromise. He wanted them all to come to his house so he could film everything, so he can keep a record of everything, so that he could hand off this information to his handlers for a price and keep the operation moving. That is the assumption I'm working on. Okay? That's where I see this case. Our numerous phone calls as we arranged the interview, which was to be off the record, meaning I couldn't quote him, had shown me I was dealing with a mercurial control freak. Oh, yeah, so because he, he set those terms, you couldn't quote him? I would have walked right out of the room right then. Alright, so this isn't a real interview. What are we doing here? Why am I wasting my time with you? I'm not writing a puff piece. But yet she stayed. She wrote the article, she peddled it, and then when the card started to fall down, pass the buck. Blamed Graydon Carter. And he was true to form. He made a point of eating the sandwiches laid out for his tea one by one, without offering me anything, despite the fact that I was pregnant. Ah, poor Vicky Ward. She didn't get a little sandwich offered to her. You didn't get a half a sangwich offered to you, Vicky Ward. Maybe he didn't want to give you any of his cold cuts. Maybe Jeffrey Epstein wanted to eat all of the boar's head turkey himself that day. But poor Vicky Ward, she didn't get a sandwich. He had also left out a copy of a lurid book by the notorious French libertine, the Marquis de Sade, for me to notice on his desk. Oh, whoa. Symbolism. He left a book out on his desk. Man. Vicky Ward. Shush, please. What? I don't even understand what sort of profile she's trying to build with that kind of stuff. Nobody cares, alright? Nobody cares. We spoke for some time and I left. Afterwards, weirdly, his assistant phoned me to tell me he thought I was pretty. A messenger delivered a book to me at home, at my home address, Maths for Dummies. I told Epstein I hadn't studied math since I was 14. Aww, how cute. So since you were not so great in math, your good buddy Jeffrey Epstein sent you a Math for Dummies book. Aw, isn't that nice, Vicky Ward? What you really needed is a Journalism for Dummies book. Then, even more uncomfortably, he began to bombard me with phone calls. These went on daily for months. From their tone, alternately smarmian bullying, I knew he was hiding something, I just didn't know what. He wasn't remotely charming or funny. He was deeply misogynistic. From a terrible joke about his desire to see his female staff only wearing Prada bikinis in his New York house even in winter, to telling me he enjoyed being surrounded by women because he'd liked elegant things. So what are you trying to tell us here, Vicky Ward, that we don't know? We know that Jeffrey Epstein had chess pieces carved into the likeness of his staff, topless. So the fact that he wanted people to wear Prada bikinis at his townhouse is supposed to be something that's groundbreaking for us here. Furthermore, that should have told you all you needed to know about him. You see, Vicky Ward, what you're trying to do here is set yourself up as somebody who didn't know, somebody who couldn't been involved in stopping Epstein. But I don't see it like that. I see you as one of the key figures who fumbled the ball, Vicky Ward. And that's something you're gonna have to live with. Mostly though, he was a thug who soon told me he had compiled a dossier on my then husband and me. He claimed that he could get my husband fired from his job and me from mine. He continually threatened to sue me personally, which he reminded me he knew I couldn't afford. Strangest of all, he threatened to put a hex, a demonic spell on my unborn children. Now that's pretty interesting, right? Because there's a lot of people who have went down the occult hole with Jeffrey Epstein. And as I've said several times, I don't understand the occult enough to really go one way or the other. So I'm not gonna blow smoke up your ass like I'm some kind of occultist, like I'm hanging out In Undermyre park with the Son of Sam doing some sort of seance chant. I don't know anything about that shit. I don't know anything about religion. I don't. It's not my dig, not my digs, folks. Now I've been doing a lot of research into the occult, a lot of watching of documentaries and, and I just, it's. I know people are into it, but it's hard for me to wrap my mind around all of that stuff. Witchcraft and the occult and I'm too like based in reality for that stuff. I mean, I don't know. Again, I'm certainly not an expert on it. I don't know one way or the other, you know, what's what. But I will tell you this. There is definitely some occult elements to Jeffrey Epstein and his behaviors. No doubt about that. This crossed all normal boundaries and it became an obsession for him. He wanted to know who my doctor was, where the babies would be delivered, and he warned me. I know all the doctors in this town because of the threats. I recorded him on the advice of my lawyer. The transcripts of these conversations run to some 450 pages. Wow, sounds interesting, right? These are going to be some great tapes. I can't wait to hear them. Now you will be able to hear parts of these reenacted by actors. Sadly, I lost the micro cassettes years ago. Ah, there's the rub. So all of this is based on your transcripts? How do we know you didn't make it up, Vicky Ward? How do we know that this isn't just all pure fiction? Oh, guess what guys? I just found some micro cassettes of my interview with Jeffrey Epstein from 1987, but I lost the tapes and I'm just gonna give you the transcripts. You're gonna have to believe me. What? So how do. Again, this is just all BS, right? And this is why I probably like 99.9% chance won't even bother with this content. Whatever she puts out, I probably won't even listen to it. I'll read reviews or whatever, but I don't even bother with a lot of the Epstein stuff out there, folks, to be honest with you, they're just going through all the same old ground we've already tread and I feel like it's a waste of time most of the time. In my podcast Chasing Ghislaine, released on Audible next week, this is executive produced with best selling writer and grifter James Patterson and we have also filmed a documentary series to be released by Discovery plus later this year. Of course you have. The dinner bell's ringing, isn't it? The dinner bell is ringing and all of the grifters are at the trough. I don't know how many times I got to say this, but I cannot wait for this to be over and done with. All these other people are, you know, running towards the troughs, hearing the dinner bell, and I just want to go the other way. It's been almost two years of every day covering this disgusting shit, and I've had my fill, folks. I cannot wait for this trial to be over. I cannot wait for convictions to happen. Now, of course, Epstein is dead. He was found hanged in his New York federal jail cell in 2019 in circumstances that continue to trouble conspiracy theorists. Really? Conspiracy theorists, huh? Shut the fuck up, Vicky Ward. How about that? You're part of a problem. Conspiracy theorists. How about anyone with a brain that in their head that works questions the official narrative. Conspiracy theorists. That really bothers me, man. Ghislaine, his alleged accomplice, is awaiting trial for sex trafficking charges and other offenses and faces up to 80 years behind bars if found guilty. She denies all charges. And in light of the appalling alleged crimes, particularly those committed against children that this pair have been accused of, and in some cases of which Epstein was found guilty, my conversations with the man of are all the more chilling. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We don't even know if the conversations are real. Okay? You could have made it all up, Vicky Ward. Now, I'm not saying that's what you did. I don't know. I don't know you. But from the people I do know who know you, the profile isn't great. What you hear in them is a master manipulator at work, someone with many secrets to hide. In 2002, for example, and Epstein told me, rich people don't go to the authorities when their money is stolen. They just want it back. Now I know what he meant. Yeah, no shit. Rich people don't go to the authorities. They are the authorities. Hanging out at the pool is great. Relaxing and playing Vegas style games on my phone at the same time. Drink in one hand and a blackjack in the other. It's all at spinquest. Over a thousand games, including your favorite slots and table games. Be cool with this summer special, new players get $30 coin packs for 10@Spinquest.com Spin Quest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. I have discovered while preparing the podcast that for 30 years, Epstein was embroiled in a shady underworld involving international espionage, blackmail, money laundering, and smuggling guns, diamonds and drugs. Oh, you discovered that, huh? Vicky Ward? That was what you discovered, huh? Nobody else had been doing that work, right? Wow. Talk about just showing up and snatching everybody else's work and claiming it for your own. Must be nice to be one of these elite, one of these rich and famous who get to do whatever they want, snatch people's work, just call it their own. She's uncovered all of that, folks. Wow. He boasted that he was a hyper fixer, someone who could move between different countries and cultures, exchanging information, but mostly making money through shadowy deals. But perhaps inevitably, what most fixated him during his talks with me were the girls. Again and again, he asked me, what about the girls? What have you got on the girls? The answer, I know today was not enough. I don't even know that even means, what do you got on the girls? I thought you were there profiling him about his life. And furthermore, if he was making all of those rude and crude phone calls to you, why are you talking to him at all? Put them on block. Call your lawyer, call your boss, put him on block and be done with it. One woman who had been to dinner at Epstein's house described the event to me as like being in Eyes wide shut, the 1999 film starring Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman and. And featuring a debauched mass orgy. There were parties, I heard, where Epstein and Maxwell cavorted with rich older men among foreign women who looked much younger. Oh, you heard, huh? Give me a break. God, it's hard to even read this without disdain seeping into every word I put after it, because she is just detestable. Folks, honestly, there are not very many people that I can say I just dislike, but she is one of them. Now, I know that at the same time, Epstein was demanding of me, what about the girls he was raping? 15 year old Jennifer Araos, a beautiful child from the poorer New York borough of Queens. Yeah, you know, the poorer part, where you never went right? You could have been, you could have stopped it, you could have did something. You could have put together a better piece that really outlined what you thought about this man instead of puffing his tires. There's no going back to that. You can try and change the narrative now. You can try and refurbish your decision, but we all know what's up. Jennifer's harrowing testimony and its devastating impact on her life are revealed in our podcast. She now runs a foundation Survivors initiative to help girls like her. For my Vanity Fair article, I did find two sisters, Annie and Marie Farmer. Separately, each told me that Epstein had sexually abused both of them. Annie, when she was just 15. I believe them, and I wanted to publish their story. But to my dismay, the sister's allegations did not make it into my Vanity Fair article. Then I wouldn't have ran the article point blank, period. Someone had those kind of allegations and they brought them to me as a journalist. And I went to my editor with those allegations and he tried to kill it. There'd be a couple of things that would occur. One, I go absolutely batshit bananas crazy. You think I get crazy? Boy, I'll tell you what. Go ahead and try and stop me from outing somebody as a journalist. That's not your job, Mr. Editor. Make sure that my punctuation is correct. You bitch. Write my story. Oh, you don't want to write it? Cool. I'll go somewhere else. They'll publish it. But no, she stuck around. She stood there, she let Graydon Carter have the fucking situation deteriorate all around her. And she stood by, did nothing about it. Now she cries like she cared. Now it's all Graydon Carter's fault. Now she felt like she was being intimidated. Miss me with all of it. I find it all to be absolute BS and I won't be giving her one single click or download. The magazine's editor, Graydon Carter, says that he and the publication's lawyers didn't believe my reporting was sufficient, even though I maintain we had three sources supporting their allegations. Carter has denied this, and that's absolute bullshit. Just look how they go with oh. Sources say we had a whole entire investigation on the Russian interference from unknown sources, from a dossier that couldn't even be confirmed, but two women come out and say that they were sexually abused by Jeffrey Epstein. And you won't run that, huh? Okay. Right. Yeah. The media isn't all effed up. The media isn't screwed up. The legacy media isn't. Garbage. Troubling. However, I have an email from December 2002, just before the story was due to be published from a colleague at Vanity Fair that reads, bless you. Guess who just appeared in Graden's office? Jeffrey Epstein. So I guess what she's hinting at here is that Epstein showed up there to intimidate Graydon Carter. And he probably did, but don't pass the buck. Vicki Ward. At what point does somebody stand up with some steel in their spine? In this case, y' all have to wait until 2019. Until a bunch of, you know, independent content creators and independent journalists showed up to stand up to these people. Nah, I know Vicky Ward. You just want to go along to get along, right? Don't rock the boat. Don't cause no waves. I got to make sure I get that paycheck. Breaking news. I'd rather starve than sit on a story like that. I'd rather not have another meal ever again than not put a son of a bitch on blast like Jeffrey Epstein. It is, to say the least, highly unusual for the subject of an investigative magazine article to appear in the offices of the outlet profiling them, and perhaps especially in the editor's office. No, it's not. Stop it. These rich people have complete access. They're all your friends. Your kids all go to school together. Your nannies all come from the same agencies. Oh, sorry, not nannies. Au pairs. Big difference, right? So please miss me with all of this shit? Mrs. Oxford educated. You're not one of us. You're not one of the average folk. You never woke up in the morning and wondered where your dinner was coming from. Been out in the streets, got pulled over by the police and watched them beat up a friend of yours. You've never seen that shit, have you? You don't know nothing about real life, Vicky Ward. Did the impeccably well connected Epstein put pressure on the magazine to drop any hint of the sexual abuse I uncovered about him? I don't know. But there is no doubt Epstein was rattled by my forthcoming article. Oh, and here we are. Remember what I always say, right? Everybody's the hero in their own story. Especially Vicky War. In one of our last and most unpleasant exchanges, he snarled that we had reached the point where this was no longer about journalists and the subject of a magazine profile. It was about me and him. It was, he said, personal. Oh, yeah. So personal that you killed the story, right? If somebody came in and threatened me like that, I would know that I'm over the target. Kind of like I know I'm over the target because itunes and Apple podcasts is fucking around, right? So I know I'm over the target. Same for Vicki Ward. She should have known. She punked out. She didn't have the steel in her spine that's needed to go against these people, so why should she profit now? His threats to my unborn children had affected me, and when I subsequently gave birth to twin boys, they were two months premature. I believe the stress of dealing with Epstein led to the premature births. And as they remained in the Neonatave intensive care unit for weeks, then months. It was hard to forget his ugly threat to have a witch doctor cast a spell on them. Alright, so is she inferring that he casted a spell on them or had somebody cast a spell on them? Look, I'm not. It's not out of the realm of possibility, folks. Again, I'm not the expert on the occult though, so I'm not gonna sit here and act like I do know one way or the other what's what. But a scumbag. A scumbag like Jeffrey Epstein? I don't put anything past him. As for Ghislaine, writing my magazine article, I was told by reliable sources that she was hopelessly in Epstein's thrall. Stuart Stuart Pavar, a New York society art dealer and a former friend of Epstein's, told me that Epstein appointed him to watch over Ghislaine in the days after Robert Maxwell mysteriously fell to his death from his yacht in 91. So days after Maxwell died, her and Epstein were already so close that Epstein was reaching out to Stuart Pavar to watch out for Ghislaine. Huh, that sounds weird. Just a couple days into the relationship, huh? Or had they known each other for a lot longer than previously suspected? Pavar said Epstein told him to make sure Ghislaine made it through this dark period. But it was difficult to match the glittering social queen Ghislaine seemed at Manhattan parties with the woman described by the Farmer sisters, pathetic in her emotional and financial dependency on Epstein, who treated her with disdain. What's going on everyone? It's bluff here and we're driving through the states in the Bluffmobile and. And the best thing that we can do is play our favorite casino style games on Spin Quest. They have over a thousand games including live dealer blackjack and craps with tons of slots and unlimited options. You can get a $30 coin pack for just $10 for new users. Sign up today. Go to spinquest.com right now. Spin Quest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more. Annie told me Ghislaine had given her a topless massage when she was 16, below the age of consent in America. Maria claimed Ghislaine had pretended to be asleep and held her hand while Jeffrey groped her one night in Ohio. I had to put these allegations to Ghislaine in a deeply unpleasant phone call. She denied everything. She was furious. And after the article ran without. Luckily for Maxwell and Epstein, the Farmer's allegations I hope never. I Hoped. Never. I'd never see the pair of them again. So again, she just goes over with the. The article, right, the Farmer situation, and acts like it's a good thing that, you know, she didn't have her story run, because then Epstein would have been caught. Give me a break. You're not the hero here. You're the one who didn't put this story in. You're the one who didn't fight for it. You failed the Maxwell sister. I mean, you failed the Farmer sisters. But Galana and I were to cross paths again a few more times. We ran into each other a few years later in New York. This time, she had a new boyfriend, Ted Waite. He had founded a computer hardware company and made a fortune. They'd met through Bill Clinton, and now she boasted about flying helicopters and piloting a submarine that was attached to Ted's yacht. Well, as the philanthropic work she was doing saving the oceans. So again, Bill Clinton pops up in this story. How many times is Bill Clinton gonna be brought up or inferred to before somebody really digs in and goes deep? Anybody out there in the legacy media have the courage to do it or. Nah, we're still playing politics. Too busy. Tribalistic stuff going on. We're too busy right now, man. Way too busy making sure the pitch, the pitchforks, and the torches hate each other to really do some work. It's an absolute joke. The legacy media is a dumpster fire. She didn't mention Jeffrey Epstein. And why would she? In 2009, he had been jailed for 18 months for solicitation of a prostitute and a minor in Palm Beach, Florida. Much of New York society had decided that he was a creep, though they didn't know that a U.S. attorney, no less, had shut down a far more serious federal investigation into his crimes. BS Bullshit. Okay? It wasn't Alex Acosta who shut that down. Guys, come on. You really believe that? I mean, that's a fun line to pitch, right? It's fun to get some headlines when he was actually the Labor Secretary. But now, doesn't it seem a bit foolish to think that it was Alex Acosta who shut this down? One name for you. Mukazi. Mu. Kz. Look him up if you don't know who he is, That might have been the end of the story. But in 2011, a photograph taken in Ghislaine's London townhouse emerged. It showed a young girl, Virginia Roberts, standing with Prince Andrew, with. With his arm pulled around her waist as Ghislaine smiled beside them. Roberts claimed that when she was 17, Epstein and Maxwell had pimped her out to Prince Andrew. In subsequent years, Ghislaine has denied this. Oh, yeah, I'm sure she has. How do you deny the picture, though? Oh, it's fake, right? Yeah, that's what Ghislaine says. That's what Prince Andrew says. That's what her four supporters on Twitter say. But the FBI and people that are actual, you know, photographers, well, they say something different. In 2011, the year that photograph emerged, Maxwell and Waite separated. I last glimpsed Ghislaine in 2014 at a book party, but I don't recall talking to her. That was one of the last events many of her friends remember seeing her at in New York. Oh, yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure she was never invited anywhere else. None of you guys had little dinner parties with her? She wasn't invited to Beso's little private soiree, right? The backyard function, right? Nah, none of that happened. In 2015, after leaving Vanity Fair, I finally wrote a piece about the farmers with the sisters help, published in the Daily Beast. This laid out their claims of what had been done to them in the 1990s. I've had no idea Ghislaine thought of that article. But the following year, 2016, I received a call. The number was withheld and answered. Okay. Yeah, because that's what people do. They answer withheld calls. I know. I don't. Give me a break. If it says spam risk or withheld number, write to voicemail. It was Ghislaine. She asked if I knew that I was on the witness list for Virginia Roberts, who. Who was then suing her for defamation. A spokesperson for Ghislaine had called Virginia a liar. I was surprised by the call. I had met Virginia, though I would later interview her. But I couldn't get off the phone quick enough. Journalists don't want to be dragged into people's private legal actions. Our job is to report and to protect our sources. Boy, you failed at that, didn't you? Talk about an epic failure. Protect your sources, you didn't protect the Farmer sisters. And then to write the truth. Well, you certainly didn't do that either, did you? This was in the wake of the allegations that Epstein had received an unduly lenient sentence in Florida, allegedly perverting justice for dozens of his victims. What do you mean, allegedly? That's exactly what happened. Vicky Ward, you see, she's still dancing around the edges. She's still not willing to commit. Allegedly this, allegedly that. What's Epstein gonna sue you from the Gray. Vicky Ward. God, these legacy media journalists. I sensed that she was. That she wanted to see me for her litigation purposes, so I did not reply to her. Since her incarceration a year ago, she has become perhaps the most hated woman in the world. People find the idea of a woman allegedly abusing other women children even worse than if a man does it. 38% of people involved in human trafficking, according to reports, are women. This notion that it's just men is not very productive or helpful. And Gawaine isn't just any woman. She's educated, born into immense privilege with an extraordinary contacts book. But there are still many questions about her. Even those who thought they knew her well are in the dark about the true nature of her relationship with Epstein and what they may or may not have done together. Still others, particularly certain very rich, very powerful men, fear that even from the grave, Epstein could yet bring them down. Well, there you have it, folks. Vicky Ward telling us absolutely nothing. We know all of this stuff. This is just a cash grab on her and James Patterson's part, in my opinion. And frankly, I won't be listening or watching one single bit of the content they come up with. If you'd like to contact me, you can do that@bobbycapucciorotonmail.com that's B O B B Y C A P U C c I@protonmail.com youm can also find me on Twitter bo-b ycapucci. All of the links that go with this episode can be found in the description box. Alright folks, up everyone. And welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles. Yesterday we were talking about the New Yorker article that profiled Vicki Ward's involvement in the Jeffrey Epstein case and the now infamous 2003 Vanity Fair article. Now, we heard from Maria and Annie Farmer for a very long time about Vicki Ward's inaction. How she didn't report the whole story and how she omitted the truth. Now, Vicky Ward, she says that it wasn't her fault, it was the paper's fault. It was Graydon Carter's fault. It was everybody's fault but hers. Meanwhile, she's the one who penned the piece. She's the one who is the alleged journalist, right? But you let someone like Graydon Carter kill your story. You mean to tell me you have no other friends in the media, nobody else that works for a publication that you could have hit up and said, hey, look, this is what I got. I want you to check the check the and verify it, make sure it's Right. And then I want you to run it. You mean to tell me nobody else would have had the courage to do it? I mean, maybe not. We've seen how the legacy media protected Epstein for a long time, so maybe not. But one thing is for sure, Vicky Ward trying to pass the buck, trying to make it somebody else's fault, is just unacceptable. She effed up here, and that's just the way of it. And her not going to bat for the survivors, not going to bat for Annie and Maria after they spoke with her in confidence, you know, trusted her to try and help them get justice. And for them to not have her push the ball down the field for them after interviewing them and having them, you know, expose everything that happened. And for her not to use that in the story and to go on and write a glowing piece about Epstein is just the nail in the coffin. Hey, guys, lady luck here. Are you going on any road trips this summer? I know I'm going to be going on a bunch of road trips. And being that I'm going to be passenger Princess, I Love playing on Spinquest.com Spinquest has all of my favorite slot games. Live blackjack, live craps. Head on over to Spinquest right now and get yourself a $30 coin pack for just 10 bucks. Spinquest is a free to play social casino. Visit spinquest.com for more details. So this morning we have an article from the Daily Beast, and this article is Vicky Ward's response to the article yesterday from the New Yorker. Now, you all know how I feel about context, right? And I want to know the whole story. I'm not here to just hear one side of the story ever. I want all of the evidence, as much context as possible, so that I can make as much of a informed decision about what I believe as possible. So let's see what Vicky Ward has to say for herself, shall we? Like I said, this article is from the Daily Beast and the author is Kate Bricklet. Headline Epstein. Journalist Vicky Ward hits back at the New Yorker and Graydon Carter. So for Vicki Ward's part, it's always been it's the blame is Graydon Carter's. She doesn't shoulder any of this blame. You know, she was just a reporter trying to get a story out there. She wasn't part of the, you know, the social scene or anything like that. Again, another one of these people that would have you believe that they're helpless. Journalist Vicki Ward has released what she claims are select transcripts related to her 2003 Vanity Fair profile of Jeffrey Epstein following a critical New Yorker examination into why accusations from two of his survivors were axed from her expose. Now, it's nice to see the legacy media catching up to all of this, but we've been talking about this for over a year. And Vicky Ward and her role in helping, you know, build Epstein's profile, helping his rise. You know, a glowing article like this can only help enable Jeffrey Epstein and his disgusting behaviors. You're basically giving him credibility. Ward's transcripts, which appear edited and do not include any audio, portray then Vanity Fair Editor in Chief Graydon Carter as allegedly saying the abuse of a 16 year old was not that earth shattering. I mean, wow, really? And again, look, I wasn't there. I'm not sitting here trying to defend Graden Carter either. He's a piece of shit. You're the editor, bro. Run the story. What are you scared of? All of these people who are scared of these so called elite, it's just mind boggling to me. They only have the power that you give them back. In 2002, Ward had interviewed siblings Annie and Maria Farmer for her thorough piece, the talented Mr. Epstein. But their claims of sexual abuse at the hands of Epstein and his ex girlfriend and accomplice and, you know, convicted human trafficker and, you know, child abuser Ghislaine Maxwell never made it to the final copy. Late last year, Annie was one of four survivors to testify at Maxwell's criminal case. So again, what it does, it just shines a terrible light on Vicki Ward. You mean to tell me you had the information from Annie Farmer all of those years ago and you didn't run it? And now Fast forward to 2022, 2021, and those allegations are the ones that are used to get a conviction on Maxwell. As a journalist, you shit the bed. And as a human being, you're not a very good one. Ward has argued Vanity Fair's Carter caved a pressure from Epstein and axed the Farmers from the Scoop against her wishes. And again, this is a bunch of he said, she said. How do we know who did what or who didn't do what? The fact of the matter is everybody involved with the decision making process not to run the story is shouldering their share of the blame. And for Vicky Ward to act like she had nothing to do with it, it's just, it's ridiculous. And I don't know anyone who believes that. On Tuesday, the New Yorker published a deeper dive into Ward's assertions of having no say in the Farmers being silenced and, and revealed a more Nuanced and less favorable picture of why war didn't break the Epstein trafficking story. The legacy media was protecting Jeffrey Epstein. That's what it was. Okay, the same legacy media that wants you to hate your cousin, hate your neighbor. Yeah, that same exact legacy media. And it's. It's ridiculous. Vicky Ward, Vanity Fair, Graydon Carter, everybody else involved. This short, this story should have run. And if it did, who knows how many girls and women it could have saved from a lifetime of misery at the hands of Jeffrey Epstein. But no, you couldn't run the story, right? You're too worried that Jeffrey Epstein might be mad at you. He might show up in his goofy ass slippers and his mom jeans, and then what? What's he going to do? The article by New Yorker scribe Isaac Chotiner also examined Ward's forgiving 2011 take on Epstein and Maxwell that glossed over their alleged abuse of young women. And you see, if it was one mistake, you could say, all right, well, she made a mistake. But there's a history of this. Refurbishing Jeffrey Epstein's reputation, helping build it back up, and then in 2011, writing another glossy piece on Epstein on. On Maxwell. Now fast forward to today and we should all believe that you're some hard charging journalist who was looking for the truth the whole entire time. You have zero chance that's going to happen on this show. In response, Ward tweeted that Chotner's article was riddled with malicious inaccuracies and that she was going to release the transcripts of what Graydon Carter and Maria and Annie Farmer said to me back then so that you can read it for yourself and judge if what Vanity Fair did was right. So again, it's the blame game. Nobody ever wants to take responsibility for the things that they screwed up. I'm so glad that one of the things that was just pounded into my head as a child was self responsibility. You mess up, you own up and you move on. You fix it if you can, and if not, you make sure you never do it again in the future. We don't see that from Vicki Ward, but Ward told the Daily Beast that she had decided against releasing her transcribed conversations with Annie and Maria. Yeah, good idea. That's told to you in confidence. You've already, you know, hurt the process with Maria and Annie long enough. Now you're talking about, oh, maybe I'll release transcripts. And again, how do we even know if they're real? I'm not trying to sound like a dick here, right? Or a Cynical skeptic. But again, I don't. I don't just trust people anymore. You know, there's no journalists out there where I'm like, oh, yeah, whatever they say, I trust. I have to verify everything I read these days. I decided it would be wrong to put those out. Ward said on Wednesday, at the end of the day, they don't need it. They've been through enough. And that is more important than defending myself. Well, we can agree on that. One thing is for sure. All of the survivors here have been through more than enough. Annie and Maria especially. So you got Vicki Ward out here making things more difficult. It's not a good look. I'm very upset that they're upset. Ward added on the Farmers. I feel that we're aligned, that we're all fighting the same system. And I hope they're able to get some clarity from reading what I wrote. Yeah, I highly doubt it. And we're not all aligned. If we were all aligned, you would have had that article out about Epstein in 2003, then another chance in 2011. You didn't do it again. So what do you mean we're all aligned? I'm not aligned with you. We're certainly not allies. In her defense of her reporting, Ward focused on what she said was Carter protecting the patriarchal system that shored up Epstein rather than exposing it. Oh, what a typical low hanging fruit to go to. So it's the patriarchy, huh? The patriarchy held you back from not exposing this. You again. You could have brought this information to a million different outlets. You chose not to. You chose to be silenced by Graydon Carter. Or you chose to help harbor the reputation of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Either way, you're a coward. Carter Ward told the Daily Beast had a bromance with Epstein and said they formed their own back channel to undermine her as she worked to report on claims that Epstein preyed on young women. Again, that might be true. I'm not saying it's not. I don't know. I wasn't there. And I'm sure Graydon Carter isn't a great person either, but for her to try and, you know, shrug off all of the responsibility onto somebody else, it's disgusting. Take your. Your. Your piece of the blame here and do a better job. She also said she's been marginalized by sexist journalism utilizing anonymous sources, and questioned the purpose of the New Yorker piece, which. Which she described as vindictive, personal, slanted and inaccurate. I mean, look, this is the way of it Vicky Ward, you're out here, you know, somebody who is hanging out with Ghislaine Maxwell, friendly with them, writing puff pieces on them and then when the chickens come home to roost. Now it's about the patriarchy and how, you know, it's sexist. Come on man. What that does is it just takes all responsibility away from her for her actions and says, oh, it's the system's fault why I reacted this way. Guess what, you sometimes you got to be willing to go against the system. You have to be willing to put it all on the line. On Wednesday, Ward defended herself in her substack newsletter with a post titled what the New Yorker Got Wrong. She took shots at Carter, whom she accused of being a self congratulatory male adoration club with Epstein, again with the attack on males and it's all guys fault. I mean don't get me wrong, plenty of scumbag dudes, right? But in this specific instance, it has nothing to do with it. She could have went to anybody with this story. She did not. She chronicled what she claimed were written records of certain conversations between herself and Epstein and Carter and a conference call with the two men and other damning details about her old boss. She claims she provided these transcripts to Chotiner, but he didn't include them in his story. Are they both underage? Carter allegedly asked Ward of the Farmers. And again he didn't include it in his story. How's he going to verify it? If anyone can hand over some notes and be like, oh, these are the, the actual notes, these are the notes. But how can someone verify that? So I don't blame Chotner for not running that. One was in her early, her very early 20s. Ward replied. And one was 16. Okay, the 16, I mean what people do in their private lives, I mean is not that, you know, earth shattering. I think the money thing is more interesting. Carter allegedly said, now I do not doubt that these dudes have no, they don't care if someone's 16. What do they care? They have all the money in the world, all the power in the world. They can get away with whatever they want. So to Carter that's just a shoulder shrugging situation because like we always talk about that kind of shit is normalized for these sick people. In her substack rebuttal, Ward writes, think about that. 16. What people do in their private lives is not that earth shattering. In hindsight, the poor farmers didn't stand a chance against that attitude. Nor did I. Again, setting herself up as a Victim as well. Sorry, Vicky Ward, you are not a victim. You were in a position where you could have made a change, you could have made a difference, and you did not. That's what it all comes down to, right? Ward also alleges Carter himself behaved inappropriately by dishing the details of his private life that involved the former employee. She writes, and how did he think I felt during years of being on the receiving end of critical remarks about my clothes, mutton dressed as lamb, my face, Save the Botox for when you need it. And my marriage again, what does any of that have to do with anything? Trying to set herself up and build this profile of oh, woe is me. Poor Vicky Ward. And if he was such an asshole and such a dick and Vanity Fair was such a bad outlet to write for, why wouldn't you go over their head and try and scoop them and give the story to someone else? Unfortunately, it seems that the same misogyny is prevalent at the top of Conde Nast today. Ward adds, bash the woman is the message. Rather than report the inconvenient facts, the same patriarchy that victimized and tortured these women is once again circling the wagons to protect itself. I mean, is she for real? This is just. I really doubt anyone believes that. Okay, to try and use that as your defense is just, wow, I don't even know what else to say about that. As for comment on Ward's accusations, Carter said in an email, sorry, it's impossible to deal with a serial liar. Nothing Vicky Ward says is true. Nothing. As McCarthy said of Lillian Hellman, Carter, referring to dueling writers Mary McCarthy and Lillian Hellman would not comment further when asked if Ward's transcripts are fake. Again, nobody knows who knows what she wrote. Meanwhile, Ward's apparent transcripts of her calls with Epstein don't reveal her directly grilling him about Annie and Maria's sexual abuse accusations, there was the implication that Maria Farmer finally Ohio or left because she felt there was some sort of sexual pressure. Ward told Epstein, who replied for who? Ward answered, from you. Ward told the Daily Beast that later she sent Epstein a list of specific questions via fax. And that call with the financier was only an initial conversation. She can't even get her real her story right. So again, I just, I don't believe any of it. And obviously it's up to all of you to to believe what you want to believe. But for me, none of this makes sense and it just seems like another cover your ass situation. I'm feeling him out in the call and then he goes to see Graydon Carter, ward said. Then Graydon told me the next day that he believes Jeffrey Epstein over the Farmers. So again, it's all Graydon Carter's fault, right? And don't get me wrong, scumbag. But Vicky Ward, you're not an adult here. You're just somebody who stands around. You're an automaton who does what what they're told. Hey guys, Lady Luck here. Are you going on any road trips this summer? I know I'm going to be going on a bunch of road trips and being that I'm going to be Passenger Princess, I love playing on spinquest.com Spin Quest has all of my favorite slot games. Live blackjack, live craps. Head on over to Spinquest right now and get yourself a $30 coin pack for just 10 bucks. Spinquest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. Both Annie and Maria have said Vanity Fair's exclusion of their interviews and corroborating information from their mother was painful for their family and that in recent years, when Ward wanted to interview them again, Maria had to tell her to stop harassing them. Maria told the Daily Beast that the New Yorker story was an incomplete analysis of her lies and her cover up for her friends Jeffrey and Ghislaine. No matter what Vicky Ward does, it's to help Vicky Ward, maria fumed. Vicky Ward has never once cared about the children involved in this story about my baby sister who was 15 when this happened. She doesn't care about anything but prestige and money. Maria is not wrong there. She's 100% correct. That's all these people care about. How do I further my career? And if that means harboring the reputation of somebody like Jeffrey Epstein, well, so be it. Maria said that when the Epstein case made headlines in recent years, Ward would contact her and her family and hound them for interviews via phone and in letters. She has milked us to death, maria said. I have a real problem with Vicki because her stories never seem to line up, Maria added. How. How dare she try to defend herself right now? And look, the rage that Maria feels, it's. It's not fake, okay? I know that for sure and I know that for a fact. Maria is. She feels very wronged by Vicky Ward and I don't blame her. Annie, in her own statement to the Daily Beast, said, ward appears to me to be more concerned about protecting her reputation than she ever was about protecting girls and young women from a pair of predators. Instead of pointing fingers, I wish all parties were taking more ownership for their mistakes, annie continued. The dissection of what went wrong in 2002 is relevant because many members of the media still need to learn how to engage ethically with individuals coming forward with allegations of abuse rather than re traumatize them. And people in the media blue check marks on Twitter especially. You should read that paragraph again. When you have these survivors being more comfortable talking to people in the independent media, independent content creators, than they are to speaking to regular journalists who are supposed to be digging for the truth, you know that there's a big problem and it just goes back to the fact that nobody trusts the legacy media anymore because this is what happens. They stick up for their buddies, predators go un called out and then when the chickens come home to roost when it's found out that you were up to nonsense, there's never any apologies. It's just more oh, it wasn't me and it's gross, it's disgusting. And people like Annie and Maria, they deserve a lot better from the legacy media. Still, Ward says she is entitled to defend herself in light of the New Yorker's story, and she doesn't believe she's done so at the farmer's expense. Look, I agree and everyone should be able to defend themselves. But with that said, it doesn't mean I'm going to believe what you're pitching. In recent years, Ward came forward to say that she believes the farmer's claims and capitalized on the Epstein scandal with a with a three part special, chasing Ghislaine on Discovery plus, and an audible podcast of the same title. It cracks me up. I'm not going to digress too far here, but all of these podcasts that all of a sudden have popped up recently about Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein. Comical at best, she was. First she first accused Carter of excising the women from her story in a 2015 column for the Daily Beast. It came down to my sources word against Epstein's and at the time Graydon believed Epstein, Ward wrote in my notebook, I have him saying I believe him. I'm Canadian. What does that mean? I don't believe you and I'm Italian, so put that in your pipe and smoke it. Chotner interviewed Ward about his story of covering Epstein and Maxwell after the latter was convicted in late December of grooming girls for the multi millionaire pedophile. Many of the things she told me and had told her podcast listeners turned out to be untrue, chotner writes. And for those of you out there listening to the podcast right now, you know for a fact that that's one of the number one things when it comes to podcasts. That's important. Getting the story straight and consistency, the two most important things. Ward has neither. What is it, a 10 part series where it's filled with all kinds of BS? According to Chotner, all publications, including this one, at times look back on stories and regret not pursuing them further. But Ward's claim that Vanity Fair prevented her from exposing Epstein misrepresents a more complicated reality. That's factual, definitely a more complicated reality, but she could have made it less complicated by just taking the story elsewhere. Again, I know that sounds easy and it's easy for me to say it's not my livelihood on the line. But guess what? Sometimes you have to have courage. And if you're going to be a journalist, especially your job as a member of the fourth Estate is to hold people, people of power, to account, Chanter adds. Carter, who now says that he distrusted Ward as a reporter, has offered conflicting explanations for his magazine's decision not to run the sisters allegations. For her part, Ward has repeatedly misrepresented her reporting on Epstein, changing her story from year to year and at times from day to day, and was a far less heroic actor than she would have audiences believe. Yeah, it's nice to see Chotner is getting caught up on this. We've only been talking about this for over two years. Maria was a 26 year old art student in New York when she met Epstein and Maxwell and claims the duo sexually assaulted her in 1996. During the alleged assault, Farmer had been staying at the home of Epstein's pal, former Limited Brands chairman Les Wexner. And Maria's story is one that is pretty disgusting and sad. She's told her story here on this podcast before, she's told it elsewhere. And I think that Maria and Annie, if they would have just been listened to, all of this could have been stopped. The creepy couple also preyed on Maria's 16 year old sister Annie, who was groped by Maxwell during a visit to Epstein's New Mexico compound. At Maxwell's criminal trial, Annie said she was frozen in fear when the socialite pedophile convicted human trafficker molested her. And again, we all heard Annie's testimony, we all read it, and we all know how harrowing that must have been for her. Last July, Maria told Page Six she was tired of Ward allegedly profiting from her and Annie's experience with Epstein. I am horrified. Just leave us alone. Can't she make money off of other victims, maria told the outlet ahead of Ward's podcast premiere. She added, whenever we hear the name Vicky Ward, we cringe. Ward responded that she made an effort to really apologize to Maria in the podcast. She was done a great disservice, ward told Page Six. Epstein ruined her life. I'm hugely sorry for my role in that. She obviously sees me as the enemy, which is very upsetting. Well, look, you had a chance to help her. You had a chance to go and tell the world what happened, and you did not. You sat on it. And because of that, I can't even begin to tell you the struggles that Maria has had since then. Cancer, issues with hiding from these people. It's no way to live your life, and she deserves a lot better than that from Vicky Ward and the rest of these pieces of shit. In Chotner's piece, Carter initially recalled that he edited Ward's first draft of her 2003 story and that there was no mention of young women in it. Emails showed, however, that Ward had discussed the farmer's sexual abuse accusations with fact checkers and a photo editor weeks before her deadline. Carter and I also spoke on the phone, chotner writes, and he told me that the decision not to run the farmer's allegation was likely influenced by Ward's professional reputation. My staff, to a person, did not trust her. Then why is she working for you? Why do we have people in the in the media or in the journalist rooms who are not trusted? If nobody trusts you and you're a liar, why are you giving the news to the rest of us? It's amazing to me. Fire her then. In the three years after Epstein's profile, Ward continued to write about the wealthy sex offender and mingle with Maxwell in Manhattan society circles. Her bylines included a casual 2008 Vanity Fair item about rumors that Epstein would flee to Israel to avoid jail time for soliciting a minor in Florida. The story closes with an impertinent exchange. Well, I guess you and I have history by now, Jeffrey, I told him, thinking of my 2003 article. He replied, you know how many girls say that to me? Aww, how cute. What a loving moment between you two absolute scoundrels. The Next column in 2011, was effusive about Maxwell, the very woman Annie accused of abuse in an interview with Ward about nine years before. So after she knew all of this, Vicky Ward. She had been hip to all of this by Annie and Maria and had hindsight as her benefit. And she's still Hanging out with Ghislaine Maxwell. So anything she says after that, she should not be taken seriously. This is not to say I didn't hear stories about the girls. Ward wrote I did, but not knowing quite whom to believe, I concentrated on the intriguing financial mystery instead. Ward added, and they didn't even dig deep there. The financial aspect of this case is one of the most interesting aspects to me. And for her to act like she's really dug deep here is laughable at best. What's going on, everyone? It's bluff here and we're driving through the states in the Bluff Mobile. And the best thing that we can do is play our favorite casino style games. On Spin Quest, they have over a thousand games, including live dealer blackjack and craps. With tons of slots and unlimited options, you can get a 30 coin pack for just $10. For new users, sign up today. Go to spinquest.com right now. Spinquest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. Ward added, sure, Jeffrey had his sexual peccadillos, but then Ghislaine's father was not without his oddities again. What about ism? What does that even mean? His peccadillos? You mean abusing children and raping women? That's peccadillos to you, huh? I guess when you're part of the so called elite and you do that sort of shit, it's just a peccadillo. Ward says her original copy said we concentrated instead of I because she wanted to cover for Vanity Fair. And Carter, she says she always believed the farmers, but an editor changed her copy and made it seem otherwise. Oh, is that right again? And you never came out with your own version? And Ghislaine, full disclosure, I like her. Most people in New York do. It's almost impossible not to. Ward wrote, she is always the most interesting, the most vivacious, the most unusual person in any room. Oh, give me a fucking break. Breaking news. I guarantee you I know people in New York who don't like Elaine Maxwell, okay? I promise you that she's not the most interesting person anywhere ever. I've spent hours talking to her about the Third World. You mean the developing world again. Remember folks, when these people are up there calling everybody else racist or misogynist or whatever it might be, this is the way they look at the developing world. Oh, it's the Third World. Speaking of it in derogatory terms like there's places. I've spent hours talking to her about the third world. At a bar until 2am she is as passionate as she is knowledgeable. She is curious. She has spent weeks at the bottom of the ocean, literally going deeper than anyone else. She should have just stayed there, okay? The world would be a better place. Nobody cares if she's out here acting like Jacques Cousteau. Nobody gives a fuck. Asked about this language, Ward told the Daily Beast that Maxwell had an extraordinary charisma, but claimed she didn't know her well. She said they'd run into each other sporadically at a book launch or a movie premiere. This is somebody I would run into at an event. It's not somebody I would be having lunch with, ward said. I think people have got the wrong impression. Ward added that she had no idea. The heiress, Pedophile, human trafficker, child abuser, procured children for Epstein. Nah, you had no idea. Nobody knew anything. She's a journalist. It's her job to know. But she had no idea. Sure. I think we should just believe everything Vicky Ward tells us. Ward told Chotiner that her draft was quite different from the finished feature posted on Vanity Fair's website. This piece got sent to Graydon and somebody altered it dramatically, Ward claimed. Really, really dramatically. As proof, Ward forwarded Chotner her emails with Vanity Fair editors and her supposed first draft. According to Chotner, the draft was extremely similar to the published piece and specifically said that she would. She was unsure of whom to believe. The sentence about sexual peccadilloes was in that copy, too. Now, again, she's being called out here, she's being outed, aired out, and she's still not willing to take responsibility. So I leave it up to you folks, as usual, to decide if her content's worth you even bothering with. Chotner says Ward claims she included precise allegations from the farmers in her 2011 write up, but someone at Vanity Fair removed them. But a copy of the draft, Chotner writes, revealed that Annie's accusations about Maxwell's unwanted massage and Epstein climbing into her bed had never been included. Asked why Annie's claims about Maxwell were left out, Ward told Chotiner, I wish I could remember. She added that she was deliberately covering for Carter, who denied Ward's claims, who denied Ward's claims. So you are covering for Carter, proving that you're willing to lie, proving that you're willing to not have a backbone. So again, blow the whole entire thing up. They both get their share of the blame. Vicky Ward as the author, Vicki Ward as the person who's supposed to have the confidence of these girls, completely blew the confidence out of the water, and now here we are. 2011 was a year. I made a lot of bad decisions, Ward said, mentioning that she was going through a divorce. I was not mentally well. Oh, please. None of us are mentally well, okay? Try waking up every single morning and not knowing where your next, you know, meal's coming from or if your bills are going to be paid. That month, Chotner pressed Ward on why she wrote the 2011 essay In Light of her claims that Epstein threatened her before the first profile was published. She replied in part, I think the reason I did it was that the media industry was imploding. And this may seem bizarre, but by being able to write about it so flippantly, I think it made me feel good, actually. The media was imploding. It's been imploding forever. So you writing for Epstein about Epstein or this story is going to save the media complex? Imagine having this kind of opinion of yourself. Ward isn't the only high profile reporter covering the Epstein case to come under fire. Last week, victims Courtney Wilde and Haley Robson filed a defamation suit against storied Miami Herald journalist Julie K. Brown, saying she misre. Excuse me, saying she misrepresented their stories in her 20 and 21 book. Well, folks, again, that's why this podcast exists, so that we can go through these stories that come out on a daily basis, pick them apart, find the golden gems, and discard the rest of it. Because it was, it's not just been Vicky Ward covering for Epstein. It was the whole entire media complex up until about 2019. So for these clowns to act like, you know, oh, it was just Vicky Ward or just Graydon Carter, that's a joke. But what Vicky Ward and Graydon Carter did here, according to Maria and Annie, absolutely out of bounds. And honestly, it goes a long way with helping Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell continue to do this. So Vicki Ward coming out here trying to defend herself while she's more than, you know, able to do that, right, she should have the right to defend herself. Again, it falls flat to me. There's nothing there in this defense that would make me say, ah, you know what, maybe I should reevaluate this. Especially considering I've, I've, I've, I've spoken with Maria personally, so I don't buy any of it. I've never bought Vicki Ward's story, and I've never really thought of her as a reliable narrator. As usual, though, I'll leave that up to you folks to decide. That's gonna do it for this morning's update. I'll be back later on tonight, obviously with, you know, the evening update and until then, some context episodes coming your way. If you'd like to contact me, you can do that@bobbycapucciorotonmail.com that's B O B B Y C A P U c c I protonmail.com youm can also find me on Twitter at bo b b y underscore cap ucci the link that we discussed can be found in the description box. All right everybody, I will be back later on and I hope all of you have a great morning. Hey guys, lady luck here. Are you going on any road trips this summer? 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