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The Epstein Chronicles
Mega Edition: Virginia Roberts Deposition in Edwards and Cassell v. Alan Dershowitz (Part 4-6) (4/11/26)
00:43:55
The videotaped deposition of Virginia Roberts Giuffre taken on January 16, 2016, in Fort Lauderdale sits at the center of the bitter legal war between Epstein survivors’ attorneys Bradley Edwards and Paul Cassell and Alan Dershowitz, who was accused...
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What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with a Virginia Roberts deposition in the lawsuit against Alan Dershowitz. Question how did you know? Well, was this the first time that you had met Professor Dershowitz? Answer no. Question how many times did you had met him before this event? Answer Dershowitz was around a lot, so I mean, I couldn't count how many times that I met him. Question what's your best recollection? Answer Are you asking me to guess? Question I'm asking for your best recollection. I couldn't give you a number. I'm not too sure he was around a lot. Question when you say he was around, what do you mean by that? Answer he obviously did a lot of work for Jeffrey. I'm not too sure what that work was. Question did you ever talk to him? Answer I was introduced to him. Question when were you first introduced to him? Answer I believe the first time I was introduced to him would have been in New York. Question Putting aside the first introduction, did you ever have a conversation with Professor Dershowitz? Answer Besides formalities, no. Question Did Professor Dershowitz tell you why he was in New Mexico? Answer no. I'm assuming they're for the conference or the get together. The politicians get together, not politicians, sorry, academic get together. Question how did you know that this was an academic get together? Because they were talking about most of the things I can't really understand, just scientific stuff. Were you there for that portion of the evening? Answer yeah, I ate dinner at the table. Question Was there anything other than the dinner that was going on during this three day to one week stay in New Mexico? Answer Generally there always was. I mean, I would do horseback riding, I would go for walks. If you're asking me if there was another event, no. But that was one of Jeffrey's places that he liked to stay. Question where did Professor Dershowitz stay? Upstairs in the room. How long did he stay for? I'm not too sure. What's your best recollection? I only remember seeing him there for a day. And you didn't see him. Was this dinner party at the end of the trip there the first day? Question so then after the first day, you didn't see Professor Dershowitz again? I didn't see anyone else except for obviously Epstein, Maxwell, the house staff. How many people other than Professor Dershowitz stayed at the ranch during the trip? Nobody else stayed except for the people I just mentioned. I'M sorry, I thought that Professor Dershowitz spent the night. He could have spent the night, but I'm saying I didn't see him the next day. I don't know if he left that day or I don't know if he stayed the night, but all the rooms were upstairs. If he would have stayed, he would have stayed upstairs. Question so you don't know one way or the other whether he stayed? Answer no, I don't know whether he stayed. Question what year was this? Answer I don't know. I was with Jeffrey from 99 until 2002. So it's a broad spectrum of trying to remember times and dates. Definitely remember this dinner party though, right? Yeah. You remember that there were 15 or so academics and scientists, right? Yes. Question and you remember that you had sex with Professor Dershowitz, right? Yes. You remember everybody left after the dinner party, right? Yes. So what would help you fix this this in your mind? Had you already met redacted before this dinner party? Answer. You know, I don't think so, but I don't think so. Question why do you say that? Answer. Because redacted happened when I was 17. You know, I can't 100% say if it happened before or after, and me trying to pinpoint that down just wouldn't work. Question did you tell anybody about having sex with Professor Dershowitz? Answer. Besides Epstein? Question. So you told Epstein? Answer Yes. Epstein. Question did you tell anybody else? Answer. Maxwell. Question Anyone else? Answer I told my boyfriend at the time that I had met him. Question who was your boyfriend at the time? Answer Redacted. Question. You didn't say anything else other than you had met Professor Dershowitz? Answer. I told him I was very upset for from one of the things I had to do, but he didn't fully comprehend what I was talking about. Question did you tell anybody else? Mr. Scarola interjects Excuse me. Can you set a time frame, Ms. Borgia? Question at any time in your entire life. Oh, at any time, Are we excluding attorney client privilege communication? Other than your attorneys, did you tell anybody else? Answer. Yeah, I told my best friend, redacted my mother, and I think that's about it. Question when did you tell your mother? Answer. Within the last couple of years. Question what did you tell her? Answer I didn't go into details with her. I just said that he's one of the people that abused me. Question did you say anything else to your mother about Professor Dershowitz other than generally he abused you? And that draws an Objection from Sigrid McCauley? Objection. Aston answered. Special master, you can answer. Answer no, just, I mean, obviously characterization about who he is and what he is. But I didn't go into details with her, if that's what you're asking. Question what did you tell redacted? Answer. That he was one of my abusers. Question did you say anything else? Answer. About Alan Dershowitz? Question. Yes. Answer in regards to what? Question. Question. Did you say anything else about professor Dershowitz too redacted? Answer. I need a little more specifics. Did I tell her about the details? Question. Anything about professor Dershowitz? Anything? I'm not excluding or narrowing it in any way. Macaulay. Objection. To the extent you can answer that. Answer. I told her who he was. I might have told her specifics. I'm not too sure. I can't recall. We're going back over a year ago. Question. When did you have or how many conversations did you have with redacted about professor Dershowitz? Answer. It wouldn't be like a full blown conversation, like long talks about would be more from girlfriend to girlfriend. Just, you know, this is what's happening in my life. You know, these are one of the people that abused me. These are one of the people that I'd like to get brought to justice for it. She asked me the questions, like what happened and I explained to her what was going on. I don't know how many times that I've had conversations with her. Question about professor Dershowitz. Answer about professor Dershowitz. Question is redacted. A truthful person. I used to think she was. Question, you don't think so now? No. Question. Have you had a falling out with yes. Question. Have you called redacted and told her not to talk to professor Dershowitz? Not in that way. I told her I can't believe that you're talking to somebody in my own words, a pedophile. Question. Did you tell her not to talk to anyone else about professor Dershowitz? Did I tell her not to talk to anybody else about professor Dershowitz like talking about her husband? Did you tell redacted not to talk to anybody I about professor Dershowitz? Answer did I tell her dacta not to talk and she gets cut off by mccauley? Objection. To the extent you didn't understand the question you can ask for it to be re asked. Answer. I don't understand what you're asking. Question. Why did you think that redacted was a truthful person in the past? Answer. I've known her since I was a kid and I love her like a sister. Question in your experience in and knowing her since you were a kid, you found her to be truthful? Answer Yes, I have. Question when did you first tell redacted about Professor Dershowitz? Answer I believe I was on the island, Jeffrey's island. Question what was your best estimate of when this was? Answer I don't know. It's always hot in the Caribbean, so I can't pinpoint the season. Question did you tell redacted that Professor Dershowitz, in your words, was a pedophile? Yes, I did. Did you tell anybody else? McCauley outside of the comments to your lawyer? Borgia Other than to your lawyers, the people that I told you, my mom, my husband. And you said redacted. Her husband might have been present on some of the conversations, but I'm not too sure if he was just my lawyers. Question did you ever tell the press that you had sex with Mr. Dershowitz? McCauley Objection. Any question regarding the press were already quashed by the judge and we have an order standing on that. So there will be no questions regarding the press. BORGIA There is no such order from the court. MACAULAY There is and I'll be happy to pass it out. Special Master, can you please share? MACAULAY they issued a subpoena and he quashed certain discovery requests, and that's included. And any discovery relating to press. Here is a chart that has the request for the ones that should be quashed. Special MASTER I've read this. I've read McCauley cuts him off. Those that have the numbers he quashed. He quashed certain categories of discovery. Ms. Borgia, can I be heard? Special Master are you finished making your objection? McCauley I just want to be clear that there are certain categories of discovery that he quashed in response to my motion to to quash this deposition. And he narrowed out categories that were not subject to discovery in this case for this non party witness. SPECIAL MASTER okay. And I'm looking at both the order and a chart that was provided by Ms. McCauley. Ms. Borgia the judge ruled on the production documents. The judge did not narrow the scope of testimony of a fact witness in that way. She was not required to produce certain documents. We're certainly entitled to check the veracity of the witness testimony. Special Master I'm going to overrule the objection. You can answer. McCauley can we take a break? BORGIA There is a question pending. You can't take a Break while there is a question pending. McAULEY we're going to take a break because this is the judge's order and we're going to determine whether we need to call Judge lynch at this time to deal with the order. So we are going to take a break at this time. I object to taking a break while there's a question pending. Special well, I'm going to let her take a break so she can make a record. I need to allow her to protect it. Can you put the time on the record? Going off the video record at 10:23am so they get back on the record and the Special Master says there was a question pending. Virginia Would you like that to be answered now? Macaulay, really quickly? I want to make my record in advance of her answering that. I believe that the question, this line of questioning is in violation of Judge Lynch's order where he struck certain requests relating to the subpoena. And we have a standing objection to that. And we'll take it up with Judge lynch, but at this time will allow her to answer the question subject to our ability to strike that testimony as a result of it being non applicable here because of his prior ruling. Special Master so you understand my ruling. I've reviewed. I've had an opportunity to review both the original objections made the series of objections made the order, as well as the chart that was provided by Ms. McCauley with respect to what was stricken on the subpoena. And for the purpose of the record, we'll go ahead and have this mark so we can preserve the record. And as to what I'm referring to my ruling. Ms. Borgia, we can make a compilation. Exhibit VR3. Thereupon defendant VR Exhibit 3 was marked for identification. Special Master, My ruling stands. And I don't have an issue with you having a continuing objection, but the witness now can answer. Do you want the question read back to you? Virginia No, I should just go ahead and say it. Special Master Go ahead and read back the question. Last question read back by the court. Special Master Subject to the continuing objection. You can now answer. Virginia I thought the question was if I ever called him a pedophile to the press. Wasn't that the question? Special Master no answer I did point him out to a journalist as one of my abusers. Question what journalist? Answer Sharon Churcher. Question when did you do that? Answer I believe it was 2011. Question what did you tell Ms. Churcher? Answer I just pointed him out. Question what do you mean? I was given a picture to look at and he Asked me which one of the people I recognized as abusers and Alan Dershowitz was one of those. Question, how many pictures did you look at? Answer. I'm not too sure. Question what's your best recollection? Answer, over 40. Question did you pick out anybody else and as one of your abusers? Yes. Who was that? Jeffrey Epstein, Glenn Maxwell, Glenn Dubin. I believe that's all I can remember for now. Was one of the pictures of redacted? Possibly yes. Was one of the pictures of redacted? Again, possibly yes. Probably. I'm not committing 100% to that. I can't remember exactly who she showed, but if they were there, I would have pointed to them. Question. Was one of the pictures of redacted? Again, possibly yes. If they were there, I would have pointed them out. Question. Where did the pictures come from? Do you know? Answer no. Question. Were the people that were in the photos that you did not identify as individuals to whom had been sexually trafficked? Macaulay. Objection. You can answer. Answer, yes. All right, we're gonna wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with the Virginia Roberts deposition against Alan Dershowitz. Question. Tell me everything you can recall telling Sharon Churcher about being sexually trafficked to Alan Dershowitz when you met her in 2011. Objection. I just want to be clear that I have a standing objection to this line of questioning. Special master. So noted. You can answer, Virginia. I just identified him. I don't think we actually got into any kind of details. It was going through a book of people, kind of like the FBI does, and pointing out she was interested in redacted. You met with Ms. Churcher for about a week, is that correct? Yes. During the course of that week, did you give Ms. Churcher any documents? Yes. I had given her some pages out of a booklet that I had wrote concerning redacted. What is this booklet that you wrote? She contacted me and asked me to recall the times that I was with redacted, and I wrote them down and I gave them to her. Question. When did Ms. Churcher first contact you? It would have been 2011. Question. What did she say when she first contacted you? Answer. She introduced herself. She asked me if I was a victim of Jeffrey Epstein. She was interested in how he got away with so many counts of abusing minors and seeing that I was one of the minors, she wanted to talk about that. And when she came over, or before she came over, she. She asked me about some of the other people I had been with. I had said, well, I've got a picture of myself with redacted. And she was very interested and she came over and wrote the article. Question now, the picture that you had of redacted, that's an original photo that you developed, correct? Answer yes. Question do you still have the original? Answer it's been passed around a lot. I'm not sure if mine is the original or not anymore. Question the photograph of you in New Mexico in the snow wearing your red jacket, were those taken on your camera? Answer yes, my camera. Question do you have the originals? Answer Again, between the FBI and giving them to my lawyers and Sharon Churcher, the circulation, I'm not too sure if I have the original. I know I have copies, so I'm not sure if they have the originals. Question the booklet that you gave pages from Ms. Churcher, where is that booklet? Answer Burned. Question when did you burn it? Answer In, I think it was 2013. Me and my husband had a bonfire. Question what did you put in this bonfire? Answer Any kind of memory that I had written down about all the stuff that was going on. Question had you written anything about Professor Dershowitz? Answer he could have been there, yeah. Question and you burn that? Answer I wanted to burn my memories. I wanted to get rid of it. It was very painful stuff. Question Other than what you had written down, you burn anything else? I don't mean wood. When you talk about burning your memories, what were you burning? Answer I was burning, like, memories, thoughts, dreams that I had. Just everything that was kind of affiliated with the abuse that I endured. And there was a lot of it in there. My husband is pretty spiritual, so he said the best thing we could do is burn them. Question Is there anything you decided to keep and not burn? Just the photographs. Question Anything else that you can think of? Photographs. That's it. Approximately when in 2013 was this bonfire? Answer I don't know what month it was. Question did you do it outside? Yeah, it was outside. I wasn't going to do it in my living room. Question did it feel good to be close to the fire because it was cold out, or was it a summertime bonfire? Answer I believe I had just bought my house in Titusville, Florida. I bought my house in, I think either in October or November of 2013. It would have Been around probably November. Question why did you decide to keep the photos? Answer their evidence. Question do you have any photographs of yourself with Professor Dershowitz? Answer. No. Question. Do you have any photographs of yourself at any of the locations at the time you allege that Professor Dershowitz was there? Answer. Like there is not a photograph of Dershowitz? Question. Showing that you were at the location at the time that you say Professor Dershowitz was there, regardless of whether or not he was in the photograph? Answer. I'm not too sure. I mean, it could have been in the same week. I always carried a camera, so I took a lot of pictures of everything. It could have been the same week, but he was definitely not in the photographs. Question. After you gave Ms. Churcher the pages from that booklet, did she give you a copy of those back? Answer. I don't think so. Not that I remember. Question. You gave her the original pages? Answer. Yes. Are those the same pages that showed up in Radar online? Yes. How did they get them? Not by me. Did you get paid for them? No. Not for those you got paid for. Ms. Churcher's interview. McCauley. Again, I just want to make sure that I have a standing objection to all the testimony relating to the media. Answer. Specifically, I got paid for the picture. Question. The picture of yourself with Andrew. Answer. Yes. Question. Was there a contract? Answer. I believe so. Question. Who negotiated that? Answer. Just Sharon and myself. Maybe the place that she works. I'm not too sure. Question. You told the FBI that you got 160, 000 for that. Is that right? Answer yes. Question. And is that a correct statement? Answer. It was 140. And. And then for the articles 10,000 and 10,000. Question. So how does the picture fit into that? Answer. What do you mean? Question. You said it was 160 for the photo? No, 144. The article. Answer. Well, for the photograph and articles, and then for the other articles. I don't think she just printed one article. I think she printed like three articles, if I recall correctly. But for the other one, it was 10,000 and then 10,000. Question. Were you paid for any other media interview? No. Special. There is a standing objection to all of this. Macaulay. Yes. Borgia. Question. Did Ms. Churcher give you any documents? I know she showed you pictures. Did she give you anything? No. Question. Did Ms. Churcher tell you anything about Professor Dershowitz? No. Question. Question. Other than who you have named? Your mother? Your boyfriend. Redacted. Answer. Yes. Question. Your friend and Sharon Churcher? Answer. And my husband? Question. Your Husband. And putting aside your lawyers, did you tell anyone else that you were sexually trafficked to Professor Dershowitz? Answer the FBI. Question what did you tell the FBI? Answer I just remember. My memory recalls they did show me a photograph of everybody. If he was in those photographs, I would have pointed him out. I'm just saying I could have possibly pointed him out in the pictures, but do you recall doing that or. Question Excuse me. I just know there was a lot of pictures and if he was in there, I would have pointed him out to them. Do you recall having any discussion with the FBI about Professor Dershowitz? I had discussions about a lot of people with them and I specifically don't remember if it was just if Allen was included in those, but if he was, I would have told them what I know. Did you talk to the FBI more than once about Professor Dershowitz? Objection. Mischaracterizes the testimony. Special witness. You can answer the witness. Does that mean. Go ahead, Special Master Yes. I only met with the FBI one time, so no. Question when you say that if you've been shown a picture you would have identified Professor Dershowitz, you're talking about an in person meeting in April of 2011. Answer I don't recall if it was April, but yes, I think it was 2011. Question shortly after the article and the Daily Mail came out? Answer I think about after two weeks. Question what else did you tell the FBI about being sexually trafficked? Answer I told them everything that I could remember at the time from the period of the years I was with Jeffrey. Question did you tell them about a prominent prime minister? Answer yes. Question did you tell them about heads of state? Answer I'm not too sure about a head of state is or what that is. Question did you tell them about prominent politicians? Answer yes. Question did you name them? Yes. Did you. Did you tell the FBI about prominent business people? Question did you name them? Answer yes. Question what were the names of the politicians that you gave to the FBI? Answer the same names that I've given to you. Question what were the names you gave the FBI? The name redacted? Answer yes. Question and you gave the FBI the name redacted? Answer yes. Question which prominent businessman or names did you give to the FBI? Answer Glenn Dubin. I mean, we're going back over the list. That's very hard to continually go over, but redacted. Glenn Dubin. I'm trying to remember, but I'm having a blockage. I'm sorry. Question did you name redacted to the FBI? Answer yes. Question did you name any academics specifically that you recall? Answer. I am redacted. I mean, anyone that they would have pointed out to me and asked me if I would have told them truthfully who I was with and what happened. I can't remember exactly who they showed me. I can't remember exactly who I told them about, but if they were there, I would have told them. Question did the FBI ask you about redacted or redacted? Answer. I do believe they did ask me about redacted, but I can't remember the exact conversations we had about him. I understand that you are not sexually trafficked to redacted, is that correct? Correct. Did Sharon Churcher ask you about that? I believe they did. How many times did you meet? Redacted? Twice. How many times did you meet? Once you are meeting with. What was the first one? I don't know the exact date. I know it was towards the end of my period with Jeffrey. I'm sorry, I can't give you a date. The end of your period with Jeffrey is September 2002. Correct. That's when I left. That's the first time you meet Redacted towards the end of that period? No, it wasn't September. I'm not saying it was September. I'm saying it was around that period. If I was going to a place or place times around something, it would be towards the end of that. Where were you when you first met? On Little St. Jeff's which is an island. Little St. James, he used to call it. Little St. Jeff's meeting redacted. Generally or specifically about his personality. Where were you on the island when you met him? We had dinner together. Question. Who was at the dinner? Ghislaine, Redacted. Jeffrey Epstein, myself and two girls that I do not know who they are. Question. This is the meeting with redacted that's been described in press articles, Is that correct? Objection. Go ahead, you can answer. Special Master, you can answer. Sorry, confusing legal stuff. Yeah, I believe it had been circulated. Question. You had a second meeting with redacted? Answer. Yes. Question. When was that? Answer. I believe very close together. Within weeks, if not months. Question where was it? Answer. Little Saint Jeff's Question. What were the circumstances of your second meeting with redacted? Answer. Very similar. I mean, there was a dinner. Lots of laughing, lots of joking. It was just a dinner. And then I didn't have to do anything with Redacted. He was never sexually involved with me. I've never witnessed him sexually involved with anybody else. And Jeffrey asked Me for a massage after dinner, and I went off to Jeffrey's cabana. Question who was at that dinner? Answer. Ghislaine, Jeffrey and myself. I believe there were. There were some other guys. They were down by the beach. I'm not too sure who they were. I assume they were security of some sort. They weren't there at dinner. There were two girls. Question. So each time you had dinner with. Redacted. There were two girls, Is that correct? Answer for my recollection, yes, only two. Question and describe the girls at the first dinner. Answer. Young, beautiful, like every girl that's generally around Jeffrey. Question Are you able to identify them? Answer Possibly if I was shown pictures, but I don't know their names. Need to understand. When I was with Jeffrey, we were specifically told not to make friends, not to talk other than small talk. But we weren't like, hi, my name is Susan and I'm 15 or 19. We weren't like that. Question Was there any security at the first dinner? Answer not at the table, but they always stayed around the beach. Question who were the two girls at the second dinner? Answer it sounds funny, but I thought that they were sisters. They look so much alike. They were beautiful. They were youngish. I don't know exactly their age, but they were. I don't know, it's hard to say. Anywhere between 17 and 21, but I don't know their names. Question Was it the first dinner that Ghisan Maxwell flew the helicopter with Redacted. To the island McCauley? Objection. Special Master, you can answer if you know. Answer. I was only told that I'm not too sure if she actually did or not. I never witnessed Ghislaine flying him, but she said she did. Question and did you hear redacted say that she was a good pilot? Answer. I remember her saying he thought she was a good pilot, but I never witnessed it myself. Question. So it's possible she wasn't flying. Redacted. In a black helicopter. That could be false. Objection. Special Master, you can answer. Answer. To my knowledge, Glenn and Jeffrey talk a lot. They say things that are sometimes hard to believe. Some are actually, actually true. So I don't know. All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up where we left off. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we Left off with a Virginia Roberts deposition against Alan Dershowitz. Question the second dinner. How did redacted get there? Either by boat or by helicopter. There's only two ways to the island. Question so you don't know? No. So tell me the circumstances of meeting redacted. It's a little hazy at where that took place. I mean, we're going back a long time. But I do remember one thing about him. I thought he was a wonderful guy who loved his wife. And they spent the entire time like there was nothing else around them. It was just those two. It was a dinner table, a long dinner table with people around. But they were just lovely just watching them as a couple, I remember thinking, you know, he's somebody that I would definitely vote for. He's just somebody that loves his wife that much. What was the purpose of this dinner? As usual, I'm not told these kinds of things. I'm just kind of there to sit down and look pretty and keep my mouth shut. Who else was there? I'm not too sure this was on the island, right? It could have been the island, but I could be mistaken. It if it was the island, it could have been New York. I'm not going to commit myself to saying it was definitely the island, but my memory is still hazy when it comes to locations or places. We were traveling everywhere a lot. And I understand that at some point you were using Xanax, correct? Correct. At some point you were up to 8 Xanax a day. Correction, Special master, you can answer. I was suffering a lot, mentally coping with what was happening. And when I took Xanax, it helped me forget a lot of the things that I didn't want to think about for that day. And it did help. Question at some point you were using AIDSANAX a day as part of your Virginia cuts her off Answer to start with, I was only taking one or two, but yes, I did get up to eight in the end. Question did it affect your ability to recall certain events? Answer I would say any drug is going to do that to you. So yes, you know. But I can tell you a thousand percent that just because I might not remember a location or a time does not mean I don't know a thousand percent. The people that I was with or the people that abused me? Question. You told the FBI it affected your ability to recall certain events, correct? Answer yes. Macaulay Objection. Give me a chance to object. Borgia. Question do you know how, approximately, when you were up to 8 Xanax a day towards the end? Question what does that mean to you? Answer probably from 19 onwards or no, sorry, 18 onwards. Question were you using any other medication or drugs in order to address your pain and suffering? I did smoke marijuana and sometimes at parties I would use ecstasy. Question Anything else? No. Question. How often were you smoking marijuana? Considering I was with Jeffrey most of the time, not then, but whenever I went back to Palm beach to see my boyfriend, maybe once a week out of a month. How often were you using ecstasy at parties? I don't know. I mean it wasn't a regular basis. It was because if I was at a party with a whole bunch of kids, if I was there, I would take it. Did you use it during times that you were being sexually trafficked? Answer no. Question how often were these parties when you were taking it? Answer how often were the parties? It varies. It could be like are we talking about yearly basis? Because it wasn't every month. Question okay, during the time frame of 99 to 2002. Answer probably about 15 parties. That's a rough estimate. No way it's that a certain number. Question Other than marijuana, the ecstasy and and the Xanax, were you using other medication or alcohol that you were using? Answer oh, alcohol. Yes, I was drinking alcohol at the parties. Question did you drink alcohol outside of parties? Answer Sometimes. Question at dinners? Answer Sometimes. Question Anything else? Answer no. Question. You mentioned that you were about one week in your apartment with redacted. Was that a consistent arrangement through the period? Answer no. I'm just roughly saying that, you know, if I was at home with redacted. At my apartment with redacted and it was for a week, that would be how long I smoked marijuana for. I wasn't saying specifically I was there for a week. It could have been three days, it could have been five days, it could have been seven days. I'm not too sure. Question between 99 and 2002, how many places did you live? Like my own or like Jeffrey's residences. Putting aside, when you were staying at a home, one of the mansions that Mr. Epstein owned, how many places did you live? Just one. Was that an apartment building? Actually, let me correct that. At first I lived at my parents house, then I got an apartment. You lived at the apartment the entire period between 99 and 2002? Macaulay. Objection. Go ahead, answer. Beside my parents house. Yes. That's the only place I lived. Question during what period did redacted live with you? On and off. But from. I don't know when our relationship actually started. I think I was with Jeffrey before. Yeah. I was with Jeffrey already. Question. So on and off between 99 and 2002? Yes. Is redacted. A truthful person? I believe so. Question. Why did you say, what's the basis for your statement earlier that you didn't think redacted understood what you were telling him about Professor Dershowitz? McCauley? Objection. Special Master, you can answer. Answer. He was my boyfriend, and I didn't really get into too much detail with him. Question. But you specifically named Professor Dershowitz as one of your abusers. Answer. Yes. Question. Did you name other abusers twice to redacted. Yes. Question. Did you name other abusers to redacted? Yes. Question. Who did you tell him was sexually abusing you? McCauley? Objection. Mischaracterized. A testimony. Special Master, you can answer. If you can answer the same people that I've named to you. He wouldn't have understood some of the names. He wouldn't have known who they were. But anyone prominent, such as redacted, he would have recognized that. But generally, I would call him every day when I was with Epstein, and I would tell him what happened. Question. You would say the names of the people you had sex with. Answer. Sometimes, I mean, you know, sometimes I would say, I've had a really hard day. This is what I've had to do. And we would get into. And we wouldn't get into names. Sometimes I would. Question. Tell me about the first time you met Professor Dershowitz. Are we talking sexually or just introduced? The very first time you ever met Professor Dershowitz? I believe I was in New York in Jeffrey's office. Question. What were the circumstances of you being there? Answer to please, Jeffrey, what were the circumstances of Professor Dershowitz being there? No idea. I never asked about the business. Question. Who else was there? House staff. Ghislaine. Redacted. Question. In this office with yourself, Professor Dershowitz and Epstein. Answer. I don't know exactly who was in there. I'm just saying who was at the house? I'm not sure who was in the office. I remember being introduced to him in Jeffrey's office. And no, I cannot recall anyone else being there. Question. What office is there? Answer. In his mansion in New York. Can you tell me where that office is? Up a flight of stairs to your left. How long was the meeting? Short, brief. I was already in there with Jeffrey. N. Dershowitz walked in and I was introduced. How long was the meeting? Objection. Asked and answered. Special master, you can answer if you can. 10, 15 minutes. When was the next time you met Professor Dershowitz? Answer. This is very hard for me to remember. Like I said, he was around a lot. So I've seen him in Palm Beach. I've seen him in New York. So, I mean, if we're going to pinpoint how many times I've seen him or the next time I saw him after that, I don't know. Question. Then tell me. Let's do it this way. What was the most recent time you recall having sex with Professor Dershowitz? McCauley. Objection, special master. You. You can answer. Answer. The first time I recall having sex with Professor Dershowitz was in New York. Question. My question was the most recent time. Now, what's the most current, most recent memory of having sex with Professor Dershowitz? McAuley. Objection. Just so I'm clear, you're going backward. Borgia. Correct. McCauley. The last time. Answer. The last time I remember having sex with them, okay, I believe it was on an airplane. Question. Where were you going? Answer. Oh, I believe it was Massachusetts. I don't know. It's very hard for me to remember exactly where we were going. What were the circumstances? Question. So that's the time you testified about earlier? Answer. Yes, ma'. Am. Question. What was the time prior to that? Answer. You know, chronologically, it's impossible for me to place these in order. I can tell you about events, but. But if we're going to say chronologically correct, it would be impossible. Question. Well, you say there was six times, right? You were very specific about that. McCauley. Objection. Special master. Let her get her question out. Go ahead. Borgia. You are very specific about that, right? McCauley. Objection. Special master. You can answer. I'm specific about the fact that I know I have been with Alan Dershowitz at least six times, if not more. So let's talk about what you know about those six times. Let's start with. You can pick any one other than the flight that we've talked about. Okay. New York. Okay, let's start with New York. I was upstairs in Jeffrey's room with Jeffrey. When you say Jeffrey's room, do you mean his bedroom? Yes. Okay. There's a shower in the middle of that room. And I had just finished having a shower, which with Jeffrey. Jeffrey got out of the shower, got dressed and left the room. He was wearing sweatpants, if I recall. And while I'm undressed and drying myself off and drying my hair, Dershowitz entered the room. And there was some red velvet chair that I remember, I don't know, is There a certain language you want me to use to describe these events? Question. No, Macaulay, just use whatever you're comfortable with. That's fine. Answer. We had sexual intercourse on the chair while I was bent over. How long did that last? Less than 10 minutes. Did you speak to the professor? Just formalities. But at this time, Jeffrey had before trained me to do what he wanted me to do. Question. When you say just formalities, what do you mean? Hi, nice to see you again. How are you? I mean, that could have been not exactly what was said. But those are generalities of what was said. Who else was in the house at this time? Epstein, for effect. I'm not too sure about Ghislaine. And redacted. They could have been definitely house staff. Who? And I'm not too sure. How often were you sexually trafficked in Jeffrey Epstein's private bedroom, McCauley? Objection. Which bedroom are you talking about? The same bedroom in New York that you're talking about. That's actually the only time. Besides with Jeffrey, I mean Jeffrey. Countless. But there was no other man brought to Jeffrey's room. Who brought Professor Dershowitz to this room? I have no idea. I'm assuming Epstein, help me figure this out. Epstein had just left the room. Epstein exits the room. Dershowitz walks in. Question. Same door. Same door. Question. How long before Jeffrey exiting and Professor Dershowitz walking in? Answer. Minutes, not even approximately. 60 seconds. Question. 10 minutes later, once the sex encounter ends, what happens next? Answer. He pulled up his pants and I pulled my towel back on. I went upstairs to my room. My room was downstairs, had another shower. I got dressed. I don't remember the rest of the day from there. Question. Did you see Professor Dershowitz in the house again that day? Answer. On that day? Question. Right. Answer. Possibly. I mean, I don't remember. I just remember that event very clearly. Question. So it was unusual that somebody other than Jeffrey to whom you would be sexually trafficked would walk into Jeffrey's bedroom? Is that fair? Yes. Did you ask anybody how that came to be? No. It was expected of me. Did you talk to Jeffrey about it? Yes. What did you tell Jeffrey? Jeffrey asked me if he enjoyed it. I said yes. So the act was consummated. Objection. What does consummated mean? If you don't know, you don't answer. Special Master. Rephrase that. What do you mean by your testimony? That Professor Dershowitz enjoyed it. Mischaracterizes the testimony. Special Master. You can answer if you can answer. I don't even understand what do you mean, did he enjoy it? Macaulay, take a deep breath. She can re. Ask the question. Answer. He enjoyed it. Yes. From what it looked like. My God, yes, he enjoyed it. Question. Why do you say that? Macaulay, take a deep breath. Virginia. He ejaculated. He was happy. All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right there. And in the next episode, dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up where we left off. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.