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The Epstein Chronicles
Mega Edition: Virginia Roberts Deposition in Edwards and Cassell v. Alan Dershowitz (Part 7-10) (4/11/26)
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The videotaped deposition of Virginia Roberts Giuffre taken on January 16, 2016, in Fort Lauderdale sits at the center of the bitter legal war between Epstein survivors’ attorneys Bradley Edwards and Paul Cassell and Alan Dershowitz, who was accused...
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What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with the Virginia Roberts deposition against Alan Dershowitz. Question Tell me about the next incident that you can recall of the sex Macaulay. Do you want to take a break? Virginia? Yes, absolutely. So they go on break real quick, then they come back. Question Is there anything else that you can recall that would help you place the time of this sexual encounter of Professor Dershowitz in New York? Answer no, not that I can remember. Question do you recall whether it was before or after the first time you metacted? Answer before. Question about how long before you think? I don't know. It was fairly early on in my relationship with Jeffrey that I first met him, but it was after my training, so I'm not too sure. Question. And your training was about nine months. Is that fair? Macau? Objection. Special Master, you can answer. Answer no, my training wasn't about nine months. Mr. Simpson, can you ask her to speak up just a little bit? I'm having a hard time hearing McAuley. Okay, we'll do our best, but she got sick during the break. Let's just be happy that we're here and we're getting this. Special Master, let's move on. Let's move on. Question Ms. Roberts, I. I've handed you a document that's been marked as VR4, which is dated April 7, 2011, and it reflects on the top participant, Jack Scarola, Brad Edwards, Virginia Roberts, and the document has a Bates Number, non party VR178,200. Do you have that? Yes, I do. Have you seen this document before? Yes, I have. Did you see a draft of this document before? Answer I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Question have you seen more than one version of this transcript of the telephone conference? Answer not that I'm aware of. Question. Do you recall receiving a draft and making any edits to it? Answer not that I'm aware of. There's a lot of documents that I've gone through, so it's a possibility. Question. You say you've seen it before, correct? Answer yes. Question did you first see it? Answer I don't know the first time I saw it. I remember seeing it recently, but I don't remember the first time that I saw it. Question did you see it shortly after your telephone conversation with Jack Scarola and Brad Edwards McCauley? Objection. Can we have a time frame on the document, please? Special Master, could you please recite a time frame Borgia, you had a telephone conversation with Jack Scarola and Brad Edwards a in April of 2011. Do you recall that? I recall the telephone conversation, yes. And after you had that telephone conversation, did you see a transcript of that conversation? I don't know. I don't remember. Have you actually read this document? Yes, I have. Is the document accurate to the best of your knowledge? Yes. I mean, there's a couple small things, like my middle name is not Luis, wasn't living in Australia for 19 years, but for the most part, everything else is pretty correct. Question. If you turn to page 10 of 23, McCauley. They're numbered at the top. At the very top in the corner. You see there? Answer. Yes. Question. Do you have that page? Answer Yes, I do. Question. About halfway down the page, Mr. Scarola asked you, okay, and how long after you first met Jeffrey did he first ask you to provide services for one of his friends? You answered, about nine months, I think. It wasn't a full year. It wasn't six months. It was between six months and a year, which is why I'm saying nine months. Do you see where I'm reading? Answer. Yeah, I do. Question. Is that a truthful and accurate Macaulay? Objection, Special Master, you can answer. Answer. It's as close to what I can remember, but I hadn't given it much thought at the time, but it's close. Question. Well, within 60 days of this telephone call, you had met with Ms. Churcher, right? McCauley? Objection. Special Master, you can answer. Answer. Within 60 days. Are we talking about before the telephone call or after the telephone call? Question. You met with Ms. Churcher before the publication of the Daily Mail article in March of 2011, right? Answer. Right. McCauley? Objection. Borgia. And you met with her for about a week, right? Macaulay? Objection. I have an objection to all line of questioning relating to the media. Special Master. I understand. Proceed. You can answer. Answer. Yes. And that was her. Must have been March, if that's the date that she called. Question. And during the week that you met with Ms. Churcher, she showed you photos of people, correct? Answer. Yes. And you thought about weather, they were abusers, correct, Macaulay? Objection. Borgia. And she talked to you? Macaulay. Sorry, let me have an objection. If you can pause for a moment. Go ahead, Special Master. You did answer. Move forward. Borgia. And she talked to you about your time with Jeffrey Epstein and being sexually trafficked, is that correct? McCauley? Objection. Special Master, you can answer. Answer. Yes. Question. And then the article came out about it, right? McCauley. Objection. Answer. Yes. Question. And people called you about that article, correct? McCauley? Objection. Answer. Yes. And so you had a meeting for a week. You looked at pictures, you talked to Ms. Churcher, an article came out. You talked to people. And this happening right around February, March 2011, correct? Answer. Objection. Special master. You. You can answer. Yes. Question and now April 7th, you have a telephone call with Mr. Scarola and Mr. Edwards, correct? Yes. So you had time with Ms. Churcher, with your friend calling with the article to think about these activities, correct? Yes. Macaulay. Objection. Borgia. Question. And your best recollection In April of 2011, was that about nine months? It wasn't a full year. It wasn't six months. But between six months and a year, which is why I'm saying nine months, that was your best recollection as to the time frame at that point, after you first met Jeffrey, when he asked you to provide services for one of his friends. Is that fair? McAuley? Objection. Virginia, as you can see in that answer, I'm not even sure it wasn't six months, but between six months and a year, which is why I'm saying nine months. I. It was an assumption. Question. Was it your recollection at that time? McAuley? Objection. Answer by Virginia. It was my best assumption. It could have been three months for all I know. It could have been six months for all I know. But it's an assumption. Question. It could have been a year for all you know then, right? McAuley? Objection. Answer. No. Question. Why is three months fair and 12 months not fair? Because it wasn't that long. But has your memory improved since 2011? Macaulay? Objection. Argumentative. Go ahead. Answer. Going through everything that I have gone through over and over and over again. Yes, it has. Question. So is your memory improving over time about the events? Answer. It's not improving, Macaulay. Objection. Sorry. Let me just object. Are you argumentative? Special master? You can answer. Answer. It's not like that. It's improving over time. But the more I talk about it, the more I'm able to remember stuff. Question. Are there things that you remember now that you didn't tell Ms. Churcher in your interview? Answer. Definitely possibility. Question. You don't know one way or the other. Answer. She didn't ask me everything, and I didn't tell her everything. Question. Why did she call you? Do you know? Answer. I think I've answered this previously, haven't I, Special master? You can answer it again, Macaulay. You can answer it to the extent you can Recall. Answer. She called me because she was interested in the Jeffrey Epstein saga, so to speak. Question. Did Ms. Churcher tell you she had talked to anybody else before she talked to you? Answer. Like in order to get my number? Answer. No. About the same subject matter that she was asking you about. I'm not aware of her conversations with other people. Question. I'm talking about what she told you. Did she tell you that she had talked to other people? McCauley. Objection. Asked and answered. Answer. I'm thinking, I can't recall a specific person that she said, but I'm sure she did talk to other people about this. I know she talked to the Daily Mail to see if they could run the story. Question. After you gave the telephone interview to Mr. Scarola, did you call him and say anything that you told him was wrong? Incorrect, I should say, from your telephone conversation? Answer. No, not that I can remember. Thereupon, VR defendant exhibit number five was marked for identification. McAuley, I'm going to object to this picture. This has pictures of Virginia's children on this. And we have safety concerns here. We're not going to be putting this in the record. And I think any line of questioning regarding her kids or. Or identification with respect to them is absolutely inappropriate. She's a non party witness. She's a sexual abuse victim, and injecting her children into this is inappropriate. Ms. Borgia, I'm still going to mark this as an exhibit. This is under seal. And if you want to take other steps after this, that's up to you. Virginia. What are my children? She gets cut off by Macaulay. Hang on. Take a deep breath. It's okay. Will handle it. Special master. So explain it to me why I haven't asked any questions yet. Special master. Well, explain to me about the exhibit. You can mark it, but we're going to keep it. I'm going to tell you what, other than after the lawyers see that, let's put the copies here. And we're going to hold those separately and apart from the rest of the exhibits because I tend to agree with Ms. McCauley's concern on this. So proceed with the question that grounds. Ms. Roberts, the document that's been marked as VR Exhibit 5 is a compilation exhibit with two pages from a Facebook profile. Do you have that? Yes, I do. Is this a Facebook profile that you created? Yes, it is. Did you input pictures into it? I sure did. Is page one an accurate depiction of your Facebook profile? Yes. Question. Question. And the second page of this exhibit, it says, Virginia Roberts, 11-11-2013. Do you see that? Where am I looking at? Question at the top, under the name Virginia Roberts, it says November 11, 2013. Do you see that? Yes, I see that question. And is this an entry that you made into your Facebook account? Yes. You posted the picture? Yes. Do you know below, the first entry under the photo says, hi, buddies. We'd love to hear from our pen pals across the sea. Our new address is. And it states an address there and goes on. Do you see where I'm reading? Yes. Did you make that entry into your Facebook profile? Yes. And this is a true and accurate depiction of that entry that you made? Yes. By Special Master. Is that it? I'm going to ask to the extent that the exhibit gets used at all, that every picture of her children is redacted. If you want to leave the date, that's fine. Virginia Can I also ask why? Special Master hold on, McCauley. It's okay. Special Master, do you have an objection to the redaction of the children? I do in this regard, and I would like to make my objection on the record. Without the witness present. SPECIAL Master. Without the witness present. Borgia. Correct. SPECIAL Master. All right, let's hold that because I don't want to lose this. We'll go back to that on the next break when the witness takes a break. We'll go ahead and put that on the record. But in the meantime, let's go ahead and put the exhibit. You hold yours, and we'll hold the rest of them. Ms. Borgia, there are several copies here. Special Master put them there. Ms. McCauley, as an officer of the court, will, will you take those exhibits and then on a break, put them in an envelope and mark them, and I'll seal them right away so that this way you can provide the provisions on that. McCauley. Okay, special master. Thank you. And then we can go ahead at the next break and you can make your objections at that point. Go ahead, proceed. All right, we're going to wrap up right here, and in the next episode, we're going to pick up where we left off. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with the Virginia Roberts deposition against Alan Dershowitz. Question. Ms. Roberts, we've been talking about when you claim that you are sexually trafficked to Professor Dershowitz, and you talk about three of the incidents that are reflected in the Joinder motion. Let's go through the other three. Pick any of them. Answer. Which ones have I told you about so far? Question. You had mentioned on a plane, New York and New Mexico. Answer. Okay, let's go to Palm Beach. Question one. Was this. Answer. I don't have a significant date for you. Question. Was it before or after you met? Redacted. Answer. I hadn't met. Redacted by then. I don't know how else you want me to answer that question. Well, if you have no idea when it is. Answer. I'm telling you, Macaulay. Objection. Argumentative. Special Master, Let her get a question out. Let her get a question out, then you can object. Borgia, what markers are you using to identify for yourself? It was before. Let's say you metacted in March of 2001. How are you able to know that this event in Palm beach was before March 2, 2011? Macaulay. Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence. You can answer, Special Master. You can answer. Answer. I recall meeting redacted and it was a very significant event. And I can tell you it was before I met. Redacted. Question. How many times after you met Redacted. Were you sexually trafficked to Professor Dershowitz? I don't know. Question. Were there any. Question. I cannot chronologically give you the answer to that. I'm sorry. There is no way for me to do that. You know, could there have been times after adacted that I was with Dershowitz? Absolutely. But do I know for a fact? No, I don't. Question. Is that true for all six? Yes, that's true for all six. I don't know. Question. Who else was in Palm Beach? Answer. Same people. Jeffrey, Ghislaine. Wanna lessee. He's the butler. I'm trying to remember if redacted was there. I'm pretty sure that she would have been. She was always with Ghislaine. No one else significant that I can remember. So that's four instances. What are the other two? So I've given you Palm Beach, New Mexico. There's the US Virgin Islands, Little Saint Jeff's. Who else was there? Jeffrey Epstein, Glenn Maxwell. I possibly want to say redacted. And I think that's it. I mean, there's a possibility that there could have been another girl there, but I can't remember who is redacted. He's like a redacted. What's your best recollection as to the time of year that this was? Well, like Florida, the Caribbean is very hot all year round, so it's hard to depict what time of year it was. I understand it's hard. What's your best recollection as you sit here today under oath? Answer that's what I'm trying to tell you is I don't know. I don't know because it doesn't get cold in the usvi, so there's no way to really tell you it was winter or fall or spring or summer because it's always hot. Question where did you go next after that trip? Answer I don't know. Question how long was Professor Dershowitz down there? Answer I think he was there from. Just from my recollection, two days. Where did he stay? Answer in one of the villas. He would have had to. Question where did you stay? Answer in another one of the separate rooms. Question when you were in Palm beach, the time that you mentioned previously, how long was Professor Dershowitz there? Answer I don't know. I had my own apartment in Palm Beach. I was called in for him. Question how do you know you were called in for him, McCauley? Objection. Special Master, you can answer. Answer. I normally got phone calls when I was in Palm beach, when I was at my apartment to come in to give someone a massage. Question did any guests get massages that were not sexual in nature? Answer not that I was aware of. All the massages I gave were of sexual nature. Except for Eva Anderson. I'm sorry, Eva Dubin. Question did you ever see any male masseuses? Once when I was at the island. He was there helping me train. Were there massages and the masseuse is sexual in nature? No, but it was training. Not that kind of training. Actual massage training. Were there any masseuses over the age of 25? Yes. I think her name is redacted. Were there any over the age of 30? The male one that we just talked about is over 30. Can you recall any others? No. Do you know one way or the other whether there were any other masseuses over the age of 30? Do I know of any other masseuses over the age of 30 that were providing massages to Jeffrey Epstein? Just the one male that was teaching me on the usvi. And. But she was also involved in sexual acts. She wasn't over the age of. She could have been around 30, but she would not have been over 30. Question did you keep a list of masseuses who came to Epstein's properties? No. Did some of them come only once? Uh huh. Are there some that came when you weren't there? I wasn't there. How am I to know you don't know if any came as a masseuse while you were not at Jeffrey Epstein's property? McCauley. Objection. Asked and answered. I wasn't there, so I couldn't have. What's the sixth incident that you say happened where you were sexually trafficked to Professor Dershowitz? We talked about New York. We talked about Palm Beach, New Mexico, U.S. virgin Islands. Talk about we took the airplane. Yes, there was an instance in a car, but it was more. It wasn't intercourse. It was more. Macaulay. Use a term that you're comfortable with. Answer More Oral sex is the good term to use oral sex. Question where were you? Where was his car? What city? What state? What jurisdiction? Where were you? Answer this was in Massachusetts. It was in a black limousine. Answer who else was in the car other than Professor Dershowitz? Answer. Jeffrey Epstein and another girl. Question. How many people participated in sexual activity in the car? Answer. Including myself. Question huh? Answer 4. Question, where was everybody in the car? Answer Sitting down. Question, Were people. Was this a town car? Was this a limousine? Answer. Like a long limousine? Question where were you going? Answer to Mr. Dershowitz house. Question, where were you coming from? Answer an Airport. Question 1. Was this? Answer I don't know. Question Best of your recollection? Answer it was snowing. It wasn't snowing. It was. It wasn't hot. So I would like. Say, I'm trying to think of trees around, but I don't know, maybe spring. Question why were you going to Professor Dershowitz house? Answer Jeffrey and him were doing some business. They were doing something at the house. Nothing sexual happened in his house. Question did you go in Professor Dershowitz house? Answer Yes, I did. Question how long were you there? Answer not even 20 minutes? Half an hour? Question what did you do while you were in the house? Answer I sat in, I don't know, a foyer with another girl. And Jeffrey and Dershowitz went to a different part of the house. There was a desk there and we just sat, not sat, stood in the foyer. Question who was the other girl? Answer I don't know who she was. Had you ever seen her before? No. When you were coming from the airport, had you flown in? Yes, Me and Jeffrey and the girl had flown in. Dershowitz had not. Question how did he get into the limousine? McCauley. Objection. Special Master, you can answer. Where did he get into the limousine? At the airport. He was not on the flight with Mr. Epstein. Answer not on this occasion. Question did you tell anybody about this incident? In the car. Answer like anybody I know personally. Question. Anybody in the world. Macaulay. Objection. To the extent you relayed something to your lawyer, you can say that you told your lawyers, but you can't discuss what you said. Special master. Other than he gets cut off by Virginia? No, I told my lawyers. Question. Did you tell anybody about it closer to the time of the event? Answer. Like my boyfriend or something like that? No. Question. After you left Professor Dershowitz house, where did you go? Answer. Back to the airport. Question where did you fly in from? Answer. I believe it was New York. Question when you went back to the airport, where did you go? Answer. I believe C. That's the hard thing I want to say either New York or Palm beach. I'm not 100% sure. Question. So I understand the time frame. Did you fly on a private jet or a commercial? Answer private. Question. And you flew out again on private? Yes. So the time frame is that you and Jeffrey were on the plane. Macaulay. Objection. Yes. Macaulay. Objection. Mischaracterizes the testimony. Go ahead. Yes. Me and Jeffrey were on the plane together. And the girl was on the plane. Answer yes. Question. Anybody else? Answer. The pilots. Question. So the three of you took the flight? Correct. Answer yes. And you flew into an airport in Massachusetts? Yes. Then you took a limousine to the professor's house and you were there for about 10 minutes, is that right, McCauley? Objection. Go ahead. Answer. About 20 to 25 minutes. I didn't look at my watch. Question. It was a very brief period of time. Answer. Very brief. Question. And then you went back to the airport and you flew out? Answer yes. Question. And you flew back to either New York or to Palm Beach? It could have. Yeah, it could have been either or I'm not too sure. Question. But one or the other. Answer. Yes. Question. When you flew back out, was anybody else on the plane other than yourself, Jeffrey and this girl? Actually, the girl stayed behind. It was just Jeffrey and I that went back. Did the girl leave in the limousine with you and Jeffrey back to the airport? No. She was left at Professor Dershowitz's house. She stayed there. Do you know why she was staying there? I don't ask questions. Question. Did you talk to her when you were in the foyer with her? Answer. Like I said, we basically just have not real conversations. Not girlfriends sitting down, talking to each other, just, I don't know, brief conversation. Question. Did Mr. Epstein arrange for the limousine or did somebody else? Answer. Maybe one of his assistants. Jeffrey rarely arranged anything himself. Usually had somebody else do it. For him. Question Was there anybody else in Professor Dershowitz house other than the people that you mentioned, Jeffrey, the girl and yourself? Answer I didn't see anybody. Question Was this in the morning, at night, what time was it? Answer Afternoonish, like after the noon period. It wasn't dark. Question did you have anything to eat for lunch? Answer not that I remember. I mean, I'm sure we did. We didn't go out to lunch. We didn't stop at any restaurant or anything like that. Other than Professor Dershowitz house, did you stop anywhere during this trip? No. Was this during a weekday or weekend? No idea. Were you able to see the driver while you were in the car? No. There was a black like window. Question Was it closed the entire time? That I remember, yes. Did you ever fly commercially to any of these locations when you claim that you were sexually trafficked to Professor Dershowitz? Answer I did. Used to have to fly commercially to go service the men that Jeffrey sent me to. But I don't remember having to fly commercially for Alan Dershowitz. Alright folks, we're going to wrap up this episode here and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up where we left off. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up everyone? And welcome to another episode of of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with the Virginia Roberts deposition against Alan Dershowitz. Question now, other than your conversation with Ms. Churcher before the first Daily Mail article came out, did you talk to her again about where you mentioned Alan Dershowitz? Answer before I spoke to her? Question no. Since that article came out. Answer hello. Have I talked to her again about Alan dershowitz? Question correct. Ms. McCauley, I object to this line of questioning. I think I have a standing objection just to make that clear. Answer Yes, I think we actually have. I think she read the recent, well, not so recent, about a year ago, the statements made in the press and she called me up and I told her that I was not allowed to discuss it. Question what did she say to you? Answer she was just asking me about ongoing proceedings and I said I don't think I'm able to comment. I don't think it's wise thing to do, especially her being a journalist. Have you ever emailed with Sharon Churcher? Yes, I have. How many times? I don't know. A lot. What does a lot mean to you? Over 20. When was the last time you Emailed with her? Probably 2015. Do you know approximately how many times you emailed with her and in 2015? Maybe about five. Question. Before 2015, was there a long gap in your email? Yes, there was a long gap. Question, did you email with her around the time leading up to the meeting that you had before the first Daily Mail article? I think that was actually phone conversations, not emails. After you met with her the first time, did you then email with her? Yes. Then we emailed. About how many times? Putting aside the 5 or so in 2015? About anywhere between 10 to 15. I'm not too sure the exact number. Were you emailing with her while you were living in Australia? Huh? Were you emailing with her while you were living back in the United States? Huh? Yes. Yes. Sorry. Have you emailed with any other press regarding Alan Dershowitz? No, actually. Did Your emails with Ms. Churcher refer to Alan Dershowitz? No. Did your emails with Ms. Churcher specifically identify any alleged sexual abuser other than Mr. Epstein? Redacted. That's it. Have you had any emails with anybody about Alan Dershowitz? Ms. McCauley, I'm going to object to the extent that this reveals anything that you emailed with your lawyer. You don't have to testify to that. Besides, with lawyers, no. Question. Did you ever email redacted about Professor Dershowitz? I'm pretty sure we had a phone conversation. Actually, no. Face to face conversation about him and maybe some comments over the phone. But I do not recall sending her any emails regarding Alan Dershowitz except for the text messages I sent to her after I learned she was talking to him. And I said, I don't believe you're talking to a pedophile. Other than that, no. Question. How many text messages did you send to her? Answer what? From the time I've known her? Answer. No. Regarding Professor Dershowitz. Answer. Max. Well, I mean, the first one I sent to her was about him. And then, you know, the other ones were quite simple, like, you know, you've got two precious daughters. You know, I don't know if he was actually named in any of those, to be honest. I think I referred to him as the pedophile or a pedophile. But I mean, I would say. Max, three Question. Have you ever left her voicemail messages about Professor Dershowitz? Answer. I have called her. Well, first she answered and then I said, please tell me it's not true that you're actually doing this. And then she hung up. And yes, I have called her back and I have Left her voicemails. Nothing abusive, just redacted. What are you doing? Question, you know what? Answer. What are you doing? You know, like, that's what I said to her. That's how I talk our lingo. Not know what, like anything. But what are you doing, you know? Question did you give her any context, or is that the entire message that you would have left? Answer. I don't know the entire message I would have left, but like I said, it. It would. Would not have been abusive. Question. Now, I think that you mentioned in. Was it Palm Beach, Juanalessi? Answer Yes. Question he was on the house staff? Answer yes, he was a butler. Question what was the name of the fellow? Answer. Redacted. Question. What's redacted's last name? Answer. I have no idea. Question have you ever met redacted? Answer. I don't know. I mean, you have to understand that there's a lot of house staff, and at all times at all of his residences, it's possible I did come across them, but I'm not too sure. Question but you don't have any specific recollection ever meeting him, do you, Macaulay? Objection. Answer no, Special master, you can't. You answered. Go ahead, the witness. Sorry, special Master. It's all right, Borgia. What did you do with your emails with Ms. Churcher? Answer. What do you mean, what did I do with them? Did I print them out? Question did you keep them in your inbox, your sent box? Answer yes, they would be in my inbox. I mean, after so long. I mean, I had to not just delete hers, but delete a lot of files from my inbox. It was getting too full. I still have emails of hers in my inbox. Question do you still have text messages you sent or redacted? Answer no, I've gone through my phones. That's not because of on purpose, but my kids literally break every phone that I get. Question. So when was the last time that you texted or adapted? When I found out that she was talking to Dershowitz. Question what's the time frame? I have no idea. I think it was June of last year, June 2015. But that's not what I messaged her. I only messaged her during when I found out, which I think was during Dershowitz first deposition when he said that he'd been talking about redacted. And then you switch phones since then? Yes, I have a new phone, but I have those messages that I sent to her on my new phone. Thereupon VR defendant exhibit number six was marked for identification. Ms. Borgia. Ms. Roberts, I've handed you a document that's been marked VR exhibit six, which is a 13 page document copy of an article from Radar Online. Do you have that? Yes, I do. Is this the Radar Online article that you referred to earlier in your testimony today with the ripped out pages from your booklet? Yes. Do you have any understanding of how Radar Online got these pages, Ms. McCauley? Objection. No, not at all. After these were public on Radar Online, did you contact that publication? No. Maybe I should have. I didn't think of it. Question. Are the excerpts here things that you wrote in your handwriting? Answer. Yes. Question. These are the pages that you gave Ms. Churcher, correct? Answer. Huh? Yes. Question. Are there any pages that you gave Ms. Churcher that are not reflected in the article? Answer. I mean, can you give me a moment to look at them? Question. You don't have to read the comments. I'm not going to ask you about them. Answer. If it looks like there's a little bit of excerpt taken out of the pages that I gave to her. Question. Were there any additional pages that you gave to her that's not printed into the article? Answer. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I mean, from what I can tell, it's like they've taken excerpts out of the pages that I gave to her and kind of pieced them together. But if you read them closely, it doesn't look like every single one matches the next. Question. What was your purpose in writing those pages, McCauley? Objection. You can answer. Answer. You know, at the time, I was very let down by the United States government for not prosecuting Jeffrey Epstein and what I think that he deserved and what all his victims deserve to get from what he's done to us. So to me, this was my way of telling a small piece of my story to see, you know, what could do to reopen the case to get more knowledge about Jeffrey Epstein, what he's made, not just me, but a lot of other victims have to go through. Question about how much time had elapsed between the time when you met redacted and the time that you wrote the booklet? Oh, many years. Many years. All three of my kids had been born by then, so we're talking. Sorry, I'm horrible at Math. Roughly about 10 years. Question in terms of your meeting with when you went to redacted the excerpts in here, said the two of you had grabbed a couple of alcoholic cocktails. You see that? Answer. Is that in the first page? Question. This is at page 3 of 13. The beginning of the text gets blocked out by the advertisement, but it refers generally to redacted where you had grabbed them both. An alcoholic cocktail, she wrote in the diary obtained by radar. Answer I do read that. Question how long were you at the bar with redacted Redacted or at redacted? I should say. Answer I would say over an hour, but not two. Question did you have more than one drink? Answer I believe I had two drinks. I'm not too sure. I assume that redacted was drinking alcohol as well, but I'm not too sure if it was. He ordered the drinks and he ordered alcohol for me, so I only assumed that he was drinking it as well. But yes. Question so he went up to the bar and ordered them and brought them back? Yes. Question and you can't say what he ordered at the bar? Answer I know they were both clear drinks. I don't know exactly what mine was, but it was clear and alcohol. I didn't have a sip of his, so I don't know what it was. Question did you take ecstasy at this club? Answer no. Question and on two drinks, did redacted have more than two drinks? Answer I know I had two drinks. I don't know how many he had. I'm not too sure. Question okay, after these were public, did you ever ask for the pages back? Answer as far as I knew, they were property of Sharon's. I think I had a rough conversation with her about it because I didn't know what these were going to get public at any time. There were more from between me and her. It really shocked me to see these in the public. So honestly, I didn't think that there was anything that I could do about it. It was already out there thinking about it today. You're right. I should have gone to Radar Online and found out who and why and how. Question I don't mean to mislead you. Sharon's name is at the end of the article. Answer well, I mean, that's obvious without even reading that. I mean, she's the only one who had it. She's the only one who could have given it to them. Question why do you think it was her property? Answer because everything that I had given her was her property. Question why is that, Macaulay? Objection. Aston answered. Special master. You can answer. Answer because everything that she told me, everything that I gave her, so the story was her property. The papers that I gave her were her property. The photographs that they took of me, like on the beach, and I think there were pictures of me on the bridge. Maybe There's a couple of other pictures. Those are her property as well. Question, Was that spelled out in the contract? Answer, I don't know. It probably was. It was a long contract. I didn't have lawyers to read it over for me, so I'm not too sure. Did you keep a copy of that? No. What did you do with it? When I moved from Australia, I had a bunch of paperwork I just kinda threw out. I didn't bring anything with me. Why did you choose to move back to the United States at the time? I mean, there's a couple good reasons why I moved back. You know, first and foremost, I haven't seen my family in a long time. And secondly, I wanted to see something happen with. I was trying to join the CVRA case, so I was hoping by moving back, I would see that progress. Question, what's the date that you move back? Answer, as far as the picture that you just showed me of the house, that's November, I think. It only took me about two weeks, actually. I can tell you the exact date. It was on my anniversary. October 16, 2003. Macaulay, do you need a break? Are you okay? The witness. I'm okay. All right, so we're gonna wrap up right here, and in the next episode, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with the Virginia Roberts deposition against Alan Dershowitz. Other than meeting that you talked about with the FBI in 2011, shortly after the first Daily Mail article came out, have you talked to any other law enforcement about Jeffrey Epstein? Ms. McCauley, I'm going to object to the extent that it's an investigational privilege if there's an ongoing investigation, to extent it was the FBI or something that happened previously, you can discuss that. Special Master, you can answer. Okay, I'm honestly. I'm trying to think. FBI. I'm trying to remember. When I talk to Marie Vilafana, I'm just going to say I'm not too sure. I don't want to answer incorrectly. Have you ever given an affidavit to law enforcement? An affidavit, something that you signed? Yes, I know what it is. I'm just trying to think. I'm not questioning you, but would the FBI have an affidavit? I don't know. I would have signed something for them. McCauley. Just answer what you know. Borgia. Question when was the first time that you told Brad Edwards that you had been sexually abused by Professor Dershowitz? McCauley and again, no attorney client privilege discussion. You can give the date. Answer I don't know the date. Macaulay. Or time frame. Answer it would have been, I think the. This is not attorney client privilege. Special Master. Just the time frame. McCauley. As long as you don't describe it. Just the time frame. Special Master. You can't describe the conversation, but you can describe the time frame. Answer that's a difficult answer because she gets cut off by Macaulay. I don't want you to go into considerations. Think about it in your mind. So don't talk about what you were discussing, but if you can come up with a date in your mind or a time period, then you can say that. Answer. Let's just say the first time I mentioned Alan Dershowitz, I think, was in 2011. Question did you say when was the first time? Not that you mentioned Alan Dershowitz, but that you identified him as a sexual abuser. Answer the first time I went into detail about it would have been, I think, in 2013, maybe early 2014. Question were you living in the U.S. answer yes. Don't quote me 100%. It could have been before that. I'm just trying to remember. Back. Question when was the first time, just the date, that you ever told Paul Cassell that you were sexually abused by Alan Dershowitz? Special master Just the date. Answer it would have been early 2013, 2014, same as Brad. Question now, in the document that we previously marked, the transcript of our conversation with with Mr. Scarola. I'm not going to ask you to read it. I'm just asking you generally. You had said that Brad Edwards had contacted you because he was being sued. He was in a lawsuit with Mr. Epstein. Do you recall that, Ms. McCauley? Objection. You can answer. Sorry, Virginia, you're confusing me. Macaulay. It's part of it. I'm sorry. Answer Yes, I do remember that. Question do you remember when that Was? Answer Possibly April 7, 2011. I don't know if that's the same conversation or if it was before that or after that, but I believe the first time me and Brad ever talked was around that date. Question he called you, right? You didn't call him out of the blue? He called you out of the blue. Answer no, I might have called him. I think I might have. I can't honestly remember. But Sharon Churcher knew how much I wanted to see this case open up and get resolved, which is why I talked to the FBI. So I can't remember if she introduced me to Brad. I think that's how it went. Question. Did Sharon churcher talk about Mr. Edwards litigation with Mr. Epstein? McCauley. Objection. Special master. You can answer. If you know McCauley. You can answer. Answer. I don't know what she knew about him, but she told me he was a really good lawyer who was doing good pro bono work for other victims of Epstein, and that if I had wanted to talk to somebody, he was. He would be a good person to talk to. Question. That was in 2011? Answer. Yes. Question. Okay, so in 2011, he was going to help you. Answer. At that stage, we hadn't established anything. It was just kind of like, hi, how are you? Who are you? This is me. Who are you? And so on and so forth. Question. You wanted to identify yourself as a victim of Jeffrey Epstein? Absolutely. Macaulay, do you need a break? The witness. No. Borgia. Question. Now, in your transcript, towards the end of Mr. Scrolla ask you certain names. Special master. What page are you referring to? Borgia. Question. Add page 22 of 23. Yes. Question. If you go down about halfway, two thirds of the way down the page, it says. So I'll just name a name, and you tell me if they told the truth. I think they have relevant information. Or no, I don't think they would. Or I don't know whether they would or not. Okay. You understand? McCauley. I don't see where you are. Scarola. Just below the middle of the page. Macaulay. Here we go. I see it. I'm sorry, Borgia. You see where I'm reading? Answer. Huh? Question. And then you say, yes. And then Mr. Scarola says, okay. Redacted. Do you see that? Answer. Yes. Question. And you said, I think he has relevant information, but I don't think he'll tell you the truth. Do you see that? Answer. Yes. Question. Why did you think he wouldn't tell the truth? Answer. Because he did things that were wrong. Question. What do you mean by that? Answer. He participated in sex with minors. Question. Did you tell redacted that redacted had participated in sex with minors? Yes, I did. Did you talk to redacted about efforts to obtain any sort of remedy or relief or damages or other way to bring redacted to justice? Answer. I did talk to her about the ongoing proceedings that I wanted to bring against redacted. Question. What did you tell her? I told her the details about what happened between redacted and I and you know, I said I hope we can get them in some way. I mean I've heard statements about the 50 billion or whatever that was completely incorrect and I honestly do not know where she pulled that rabbit out of that's absorb I don't know her to be an untruthful person, but what her statements were are a thousand percent untrue. Borgia can you read back the answer I can read your notes. Borgia question when you said I hope we can get them in some way, what did you mean by that? Answer I hope that my lawyers would prevail in fighting him in court. You know, I don't know what I'm allowed to talk about. McAULEY youR're not allowed to discuss anything that we've talked about in a confidential nature. Answer There was never any monetary value discussed. Question so you wanted to go off redacted Special master outside of McCauley cuts her off if you're talking about the conversation with redacted special master, you're excluding discussions with your lawyers. McCauley if you're talking about conversations with redacted that time but don't talk about anything you talk to about with us. Answer no. With redacted there was no monetary value ever discussed. Question but you said you wanted to go after him in court. Yes. Question what did you want to have happen? Answer I wanted to see him come forward. I wanted justice to happen. What does that mean? I wanted him to own up for his wrongs. Question did you go to the government and say prosecute him? McCauley Objection. To the extent that it reveals any current ongoing investigation, you can't discuss that special master anything. You had discussions with your lawyers and they provided on your behalf. That's not to be discussed. Do you understand that? Answer Did I tell redacted that I'm going to the government? Special Master we're talking about redacted Answer no. I never went to redacted and told her we're going to the government. What did the government have to do with this anyway? Question did you want to have redacted or anybody else pay amounts to your charity? Answer no. Question why not? You didn't want money for your charity? Answer of course I want money for my charity. I'd love to see my charity is my vision to be able to help other victims out of their suffering through what I suffered through. Of course that would be a dream come true. But did I say that money is going to be put into that by some unimaginable source. No. Question. Has the charity distributed any funds to victims? Answer not as yet. We haven't been able to go out and publish. Not publish. What's the word I'm looking for? We haven't been able to make it proactive the way I want to make it proactive. Like go on TV and talk about it. You know what I mean? It's there, it's set up. It's wonderful. It's got a list of numbers and names of places you can go to for help. Right now, it's just a map of every place in the US That I've called personally to be able to get out of the situation that you're in. If you're a victim of abuse or sexually trafficked, that's no money to give victims. Question there's no funds currently in the charity. Answer no. Besides, what keeps it afloat in the bank? Who is probably 150 or something? Question Are the officers paid? Answer the who? Answer the officers of the charity. Answer no one's paid. Question, have you applied to the charity or funds? Answer no. Like has a victim called up and said, can we get some money? Is that what you're asking? No. Question. That's one way. Answer no. Question. Nobody ever contacted the charity online? Answer no. Question had nice people call up and tell us about their story and, you know, thank me for coming forward and being brave. We've had that. But we have had nobody ask for money. We've just had nice fan mail. Special master, Now's a good time to take a five minute break. McAULI. Sure. I was going to let you know too. In the effort to conserve time. I did get lunch brought in for everybody. I'm not sure how many things are open since it's a Saturday. I don't know. When you're hungry, it's your deposition, unless you're ready to eat. But whenever that is. I think she set it up maybe in one of the rooms so we can sign them out. Special master. Thank you. The witness is excused. Go ahead and step out. McAuley. Meredith, why don't you take her? Special master. Housekeeping. You wanted to put your objection on the record outside of the witness. Go ahead. Now would be the appropriate time. Ms. Borgia. The witness has testified that she's afraid for her life. Her council has instructed her not to provide names because of fears of physical retribution. At the same time, the witness is posted on Facebook in a way that's publicly available. Not only the photo of her house the exact street address she posted her children up on Facebook. I didn't interject those children into this case. I don't plan to. But there's no basis, when the witness has made a Facebook page profile available to the world to say that I'm supposed to collect copies of something that's on the Internet and seal them. That's not my obligation, and I think that's inappropriate. And that's something that the witness has put out there that is inconsistent with the testimony. McCauley. I want to make clear. The date on that is November of 2013. She has received threats to her safety since that date. So it's inappropriate to put her address on the record or anything with respect to her children. Borgia. I did not read her address into the record. Scarola, may I make a suggestion? I understand that the point is attempted to be made with regard to the relevancy of the matter. And the relevancy is the suggestion that posting pictures of her children and her address would tend to contradict assertions that she's in fear. Well, to the extent that this relevant argument is established by reference to the fact that that pictures of her children and her address were posted on the Internet in a specific date, there's no reason for either the pictures themselves or the address to be part of the record. So we would join in the objection that as a matter of privacy, those things be excluded from the public record. Although reference to the fact of the posting is fair game from our perspective. Ms. Borgia. Then I'm going to go in. I'm going to need to re examine the witness because. Because I avoided any mention of her children based on her council's objections. And I will ask her on the record that she posted pictures of her own children. I didn't ask her that. Scarola. Will stipulate to the fact that I think that she said those are her children. Will stipulate to the fact that there are photographs of her children. Borgia. That she posted Scarola. That she posted Macaulay on that date, on that date in 2013, and that her address appears on the document posted in 2013. Special Master. Does that stipulation satisfy you, Mr. Scott? We'll consider it over lunch. We'll talk. Scroll over lunch. When we take the break, we'll talk to our client. Special Master. I'm not excluding the documents. Should be aware. What I want to do, though, is take extra precaution to protect the document, but from being disclosed in any form, which is why we've collected all the copies. I'LL put you in charge of them. Sigrid and what we'll do with respect to your relevancy argument or any other argument that you wish to make on what appears it's going to be in front of Judge lynch, that document is going to be available to you. If he's going to treat it in the manner in which he treats it and gives it whatever weight, I'm not excluding that. But what I do want to do is, is take the extra precaution of protecting the witness privacy. Borgia that's fine. But to be clear, my objection is not relevance. My basis for arguing this is not relevancy. It goes to the credibility of the witness. Special Master I'm aware. I will share this. If you need to ask additional questions beyond stipulation, then I think we can go down that road and let you ask the questions and we'll see if there's an objection with respect to those. But I'm going to give you that opportunity if you choose to take it. Fair enough. Ms. Borgia. Yes, special master. Let's break for five minutes. Let's be back. Here it is. By my watch, it's now 20 to one. Let's be back here at a quarter to one. Macaulay, can we have a time check on how much time we've spent? 2 hours, 59 minutes exactly. Special master. It's 21. Let's be ready to begin the deposition again at 1 o'. Clock. All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up where we left off. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.