Mega Edition: Where Does Mark Epstein Fit In To The Epstein Story? (5/7/26)

Summary

The Epstein Chronicles — Mega Edition: Where Does Mark Epstein Fit In To The Epstein Story?
Episode Date: May 7, 2026
Host: Bobby Capucci

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Episode Overview

In this "Mega Edition" of The Epstein Chronicles, host Bobby Capucci dissects the role and perspective of Mark Epstein, brother of Jeffrey Epstein, in relation to the broader Epstein case. Drawing primarily from Mark Epstein’s detailed (and previously little-known) interview with the Department of Justice Office of Inspector General (OIG) about Jeffrey’s death, Bobby presents a rarely heard, family-insider analysis of the investigation’s flaws, questions about the "suicide" official ruling, and Mark’s thoughts on Jeffrey’s state of mind, associates, and estate. This episode features in-depth commentary on the deposition’s revelations, with Bobby maintaining his signature hard-hitting and skeptical tone.

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Key Discussion Points

Introduction to the OIG Interview with Mark Epstein

[00:10]

• Bobby announces he’s obtained the OIG interview with Mark Epstein.
• Mark is sworn in, confirmed as Jeffrey’s brother, and accompanied by his attorney, Mr. Richmond.

Initial Reaction to Jeffrey Epstein's Death

[02:28]

• Mark initially took reports of suicide at face value but soon questioned it after seeing more evidence.
  • “I just assumed it was a suicide because it was reported as such. And at the time, I had no reason to doubt it ... But then as things progressed and when more information came out, it looks like … there is no way in the world you would say that this is a suicide.” — Mark Epstein [02:27]

The Autopsy and Dr. Baden’s Involvement

[03:45–04:00]

• Mark arranged for Dr. Michael Baden, renowned forensic pathologist, to observe the autopsy.
• Both the city pathologist and Dr. Baden believed suicide could not be called conclusively, citing “too many unquestionable things,” especially three broken bones in the neck (rare in hangings).

Discrepancies in Evidence and Investigation

[05:00 – 11:00]

• The integrity of the autopsy process and handling of the body is questioned.
• Issues highlighted:
  • Broken neck bones unusual for suicide.
  • A camera outside Epstein’s cell was not working—Mark wants to know why.
  • DNA evidence results from under Epstein’s fingernails were never shared.
  • Mark notes: “When we get the death certificate to move to claim the body, the cause of death was ‘pending’... and a few days later, [it] is declared a suicide.” [04:30]
• Attorney General Barr’s assertion he saw video proving “no one went in or out of the tier” is criticized: “Either this is the stupidest guy on the planet or if Jeffrey was killed, the killer was already on the tier.” [06:35]

Analysis of Physical Evidence

[12:14–18:00]

• Mark discusses photos, the positioning of Jeffrey’s body, the noose, and cell contents.
• Raises skepticism about the noose’s characteristics, the condition in which Epstein was found, and supposed clothing changes post-mortem.
  • “When the guards found him...the guard said he cut him down. You see the edge of his noose thing? That’s a hemmed edge. That wasn’t cut. If this was tied to something, this would be wrinkled.” [12:14]
• Notes presence of unusual marks, possible use of an electric cord (from a CPAP machine), and timing (“he was dead for a minimum of two hours before they found him”). [16:07]

Epstein’s Final Days and State of Mind

[23:40–28:31]

• Mark last spoke to Jeffrey the Thursday before his arrest, in July 2019. They maintained a regular, if not close, communication.
• Despite not seeing each other often, they would talk “every couple of weeks or something like that... a week, a month.” [24:13]
• Jeffrey’s friends and attorney confirmed upbeat mood before death.
  • Mark strongly doubts suicide: “If he was going to take himself out, wait two days, you know, if you get bail, then at least you are home for a year before the trial comes up.” [28:11]
• Mark and friend David Mitchell agreed to guarantee the $100 million bail, indicating Epstein had support and an incentive to stay alive. [28:31]

Relationship with the Estate and Will

[32:36–33:55]

• Jeffrey changed his will shortly before death, but Mark was not involved and received no inheritance.
• All assets were apparently put into a trust to benefit victims.
• Mark is frustrated he cannot file a wrongful death suit, which he calls a “slam dunk case.” [64:10]

Mark’s Theories on the Cause of Death

[41:23, 54:47–56:01]

• Points to inconsistencies:
  • Epstein’s alleged previous suicide attempt may have actually been an attack by cellmate Nicholas Tartaglione.
  • Inadequate follow-up on DNA, cameras, guard interviews.
• Mark repeatedly states that he believes Jeffrey was murdered: “He wasn’t. He was murdered. But the dude who murdered made it look like a suicide. That's the indiscernible.” [56:47]

Claims about Trump and High-Profile Connections

[19:36–23:39]

• Mark suspects Trump played a role but admits having no concrete proof, quoting Jeffrey as once saying: “He stopped hanging out with Trump when he realized Trump was a dick. That’s exactly what he said.” [19:36]
• Criticizes Trump’s business practices, claiming he’s a “crook,” but notes this is opinion and not evidence. [22:17–23:02]
• References to Steve Bannon, who allegedly possessed hours of video interview with Epstein for a proposed reputation-rehabilitation effort.

Claims about Alleged Tapes and Surveillance

[40:13–40:22]

• Bannon reportedly had “16 hours” of videotaped interviews with Jeffrey Epstein, supposedly as witness prep or reputation management.
• Mark infers these tapes held legal value or protection for both Epstein and Bannon.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Mark on shifting perspective:
  “As things progressed and when more information came out, it looks like… there is no way in the world you would say that this is a suicide.” [02:28]

• On camera failures:
  “When did the camera stop working? When was the last time that camera actually took a picture? … Were the wires cut? Was it unplugged?” [05:03]

• On the autopsy results:
  “Broken bones in his neck… extremely rare… one of the reasons they thought it was more like a homicide.” [08:38]

• On OIG/DOJ investigation:
  “If this was a murder, then the government would probably indiscernible… What led the chief medical examiner to declare it a suicide, just a few days after it was pending? There was never an investigation.” [58:35–58:47]

• On bail and mental state:
  “He was pretty up… jets, house, $100 million worth of stuff for the bail. If he was going to take himself out, wait two days…” [28:11]

• On Trump:
  “Everybody knows Trump’s a crook. That’s why no legitimate real estate people would deal with him.” [22:18]

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Timeline and Timestamps

| Segment | Key Content | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------|----------------------|-------------| | Introduction & OIG Interview | Mark sworn in | 00:10 | | Mark’s Initial Suicide Belief | View changed | 02:27 | | Autopsy, Dr. Baden | Analysis | 03:45–04:00 | | Evidence Issues: Cameras/DNA/Noose | Critique | 05:03+ | | Body Handling and Photos | Physical details | 11:46+ | | Last Conversations w/ Jeffrey | Upbeat behavior | 23:40+ | | Will, Estate, and Lawsuits | No wrongful death | 32:36+ | | Bail Support and State of Mind | $100 million bail | 28:31+ | | Trump and Bannon Connections | Opinions/Theories | 19:36+ | | Tapes, Reputation Rehab | Bannon’s videos | 40:13+ | | Mark’s Conclusions | “It was murder” | 56:47+ | | Systemic Failures and Mark’s Frustration | Legal limitations | 64:10+ |

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The Host's Tone and Approach

• Bobby Capucci underscores Mark Epstein's detailed criticisms of the official story and investigative failures, using a direct, no-nonsense approach that mirrors Mark’s candor and disbelief regarding the “suicide” narrative. The commentary is suspicious, skeptical, and unyielding about the many layers of the Epstein case that remain unexplained.
• The episode maintains a focus on forensic details, Mark’s skepticism about the system, and the ongoing opacity surrounding Jeffrey Epstein’s associates, estate, and death.

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Summary Takeaway

Mark Epstein’s OIG interview provides an extraordinary, granular look at the contradictions and unanswered questions swirling around Jeffrey Epstein’s death. Mark, while not intimately involved in Jeffrey’s operations or social circles, forcefully asserts that the official conclusion of suicide is unsupported, offering a logical, evidence-based, and emotionally detached critique. The episode—through Mark’s voice and Bobby’s guidance—calls into question the adequacy of both the prison management and federal investigation, hinting at a story far more complex and unresolved than the public has been told.

Transcript

[A]

Craving something specific.

[B]

From global flavors to viral snacks, TikTok has it all.

[A]

If you can dream it, you can make it right at home. Find your next favorite dish on TikTok. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. Folks, I have hit the mother lode when it comes to OIG witness interviews in regards to the death of Jeffrey Epstein. Not only did we just go through the Michael Thomas deposition, well, now I also found the depositions for all the other corrections officers that were brought in for a questioning. And you know what else I found? The OIG interview with Mark Epstein. So in this episode, we're going to begin taking a look at. At that interview, and we're going to see what Mark Epstein had to say to the OIG inspectors about the death of his brother, Jeffrey Epstein. So they swear him in. We're going to skip all of that. But they swear him in, and then they start asking the questions. And the person asking the questions is redacted with Mark Epstein is his lawyer, Mr. Richmond. Question. Just for the record, you're Mark Epstein, Jeffrey Epstein's brother, Mark Epstein. Yes. Question. And I understand that basically you reached out through attorney Richmond. You reached out to us and you stated that there were a few things you wanted to share with the OIG Mark Epstein. Yes. Question. Go ahead. You can go ahead. Epstein. Okay, let me just ask some, like, just. Or ask to maybe see his license just so we can verify. Yeah, if you don't want to ask him for his date of birth. Yeah. Can we verify? Epstein. Sure. Question. Or you can just ask your birthday, date of birth. Epstein. Oh, it's only my driver's license. Mr. Mark Epstein has shown me a photo driver's license, and it has his picture on it, and it states his name on it. Just for the record, here is my credential. Epstein. Okay.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

I'm Special Agent redacted with doj OIG Epstein. Okay.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

And these are my credentials. Senior Special Agent, blah, blah, blah. Okay. As I mentioned before you came, I told them that when I first heard of Jeffrey's death, I. I just assumed that it was a suicide because it was reported as such. And at the time, I had no reason to doubt it, and I just respected his decision to take himself out. But then as things progressed and when more information came out, it looks like if you just look at the information, there is no way in the world you would say that this is a suicide. The first thing being the autopsy. The autopsy was conducted the next day, and it was conducted by the city pathologist. And I was right. I was able to get a pathologist to witness this and had Dr. Baden. I don't know if you know Dr. Baden, but you can't get. Richmond cuts him off. He's the former chief medical examiner of the city of New York. Richmond. So he went back to his office because he was hired by Mark to review and be present at the autopsy. Epstein. Yeah. Normally if I hire a forensic pathologist to review the autopsy, he has the right to just stand there and watch, and then we can get the body afterwards to do a second autopsy if needed. But because of who redacted is, they did whatever he requested them to do with the autopsy, so there was no need for a second autopsy.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Also had been on the special commission investigating prison deaths since the Attica riots in 70.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Here is Dr. Baden. So he's been doing this for a long time. There's no better authority in prison deaths than Dr. Baden. And the city pathologist came out with Dr. Baden and her determination was she cannot call this a suicide. There were too many unquestionable things, you know, like the broken bones in his neck. And Baden confirmed that he also not to call this a suicide. It looks much more like a homicide. Plus, there were the wounds on his body. I'm like, I have pictures I could show you. And then when we get the death certificate to move to claim the body, the cause of death was pending, you know, pending for an investigation. And then a few days later, the chief medical examiner of New York declares it a suicide. Richmond. Just to clarify, we found out through the media they were going to make that change. So we called the medical examiner's office asking how come you haven't notified the family and what is the central reason for changing that? We interviewed them for about an hour, and we discovered that they really didn't have much of a basis. But everyone was just closing the investigation. And when I persisted is when I learned that the camera on the floor where Mr. Epstein cell was had been corrupted and no one had actually viewed that camera. Mr. Epstein. Now, one of the questions about the camera on the tier, I don't know. There are some pictures of, you know, we're walking through the tier and indiscer. All the cameras, right. That camera wasn't working. So one of the questions I have is, when did the camera stop working? When was the last time that camera actually took a picture? And, you know, have they determined why that camera wasn't working? Were the wires cut? Was it unplugged or, or, you know, why was that camera not working? There is an answer to that, you know, and I'm going to get it. I had, I could start showing some pictures, but to keep going on, you know, because they did, they swabbed under autopsy report. They swabbed his fingers for DNA evidence in case somebody was there. Was that ever checked? I never saw the results of that DNA testing. You know, nothing has been indiscernible for that. And one of the things that lit up my mind on top of this, one of the big things is that Attorney General Barr made a statement saying that he viewed the camera that was outside of the tier that showed the door and the guards. And that's directly right between that the guards were just, you know, jerking off or indiscernible web or whatever they were doing, making sure that that videotape. And he said, he said that nobody went, that he personally saw it, which I thought was strange, you know, that nobody went in or out of that tier. So that convinced them that it was a suicide. You guys are professional investigators. I am not. But for me, the lights went off. I said either this is the stupidest guy on the planet or if Jeffrey was killed, the killer was already on the tier. So it's just things that might come into the tier to kill him. I mean, there's too many witnesses. How do you get somebody in or out? But if he was killed, the, the killer was already on the tier. So for him to make the statement that no one went in or out that convinced him it was a suicide, I mean that's like, I think we agree it was like an amateur mistake in the investigation because there were a number of people inside. Right. Well, let me pull up something to show you.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

On that note, do you have any information that anyone actually was in the cell? Epstein There was nobody in his cell. RICHMOND well, was he gets cut off by Epstein There was supposed to be somebody in his cell because he was supposedly on suicide watch doing whatever and he was released and there was supposed to be somebody in his cell and there wasn't. And he was taken out. He was alone that night in his cell. And so other like just evidentiary things, they report that he was found non responsive in his cell and then he was taken to the hospital. And he wasn't found unresponsive, he was found dead. Okay. Jeffrey was dead for a minimum of two hours before they found him. And I will show you how we know that. RICHMOND Also talk about the description of the indiscernible. Epstein. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. A whole bunch of things. I have a list of the number of the photos. I left it at home, unfortunately, but I'll pull them up and have a look. Now, are you going to show us why you know that he was dead for at least two hours? Epstein. Yeah. Okay. Epstein. I'm going to get to that picture as soon as I can. Just for the recording, I'm just going to state that Mr. Epstein has his own laptop and he is providing us. He's just going to explain the pictures to us. Epstein. Yeah. Pictures in your custody. Epstein. Yeah. Also in the autopsy. Richmond. And the picture is from the autopsy. Redacted from the autopsy. Epstein. They also found, you know, three broken bones in his neck, which is extremely rare to have broken bone when you don't have what's called a soft hanging. You have, like Robin Williams hung himself with the bathrobe thing, with the belt thing. There are soft hangings. You usually don't break bones. And he had three breaks, which is one of the reasons they thought it was more like a homicide question. So what we're looking at is do you know which bones we're talking about? Epstein. It's the higher bone, something like the indiscernible is what it's called. And did they ever cuts him off and it really isn't. He gets cut off. Discuss anything about chest compressions. Would that potentially have happened during cpr? Epstein. No, no. This is the neck. Chest compressions were lower. Epstein. Yeah, Chest compressions is. Can break a rib. Not the hire. Richmond. So. Epstein. It felt pretty useful. See, this is the camera that wasn't working.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Right? Epstein. That would show him indiscernible. Question. And they provided you with all of this. Epstein. Yeah. Question. Okay.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Really? Richmond. Huh? Question. Oh, for the statement of information. Richmond. That was just released and announced by Indiscernible. Epstein. Do you guys indiscernible with murder investigations? Is that part of the normally, I mean, do you have, like, any forensic experience on that?

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

So our investigation pertains to the death of. He gets cut off by. Epstein. All right? Then he gets cut off by the guy asking the questions. Jeffrey Epstein. Okay, one thing I'll show you now before we get to. Is that the only way they was trying to say that, well, he put a noose on his neck and sort of jumped off the top bunk. That would give him that break. Or it would be harsh, you know, like if you saw Shawshank Redemption. When Brooks kicked himself off the chair, you know, the fall down, that's indiscernible. Because it has to be harsh like that. The top bunk in Jeffrey cell was filled with his medication. Indiscernible. Nobody was on that bunk. Nobody jumped off that bunk. I'm just looking for the neck pictures also. Let me get back for one second. Shit. I apologize for not having that list, Mr. Richman. Indiscernible. Epstein, also. What? Another question I have is, who is in charge in the prison? First of all, they move the body, which you're not supposed to do, and supposedly they indiscernible. You know, when they find a dead body in prison, they not supposed to move it. They're supposed to get the medical examiner's office. Indiscernible. Surprise. I mean, they had it look like he was moved. Now, if you saw the photographs, when they took him out of the hospital, he was on a gurney and he was intubated. They were trying to squeeze the tube with no air in it.

[B]

It said he's dead for two hours.

[A]

Why were they trying to make it look like he was alive? The EMTs. And I would like to talk to them is.

[B]

It's redacted.

[A]

And I think it's indiscernible. Them two EMTs. If I recall, they're the EMTs that were actually in the cell.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Okay, Epstein, now just let me go back one second. Here's another picture of the top bunk. You see, nobody was there. So I would like to talk to those two guys.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Yeah, Epstein, this is the noose, right? Look at that. When the guards found him, the guy was indiscernible. He's saying that he cut him down. And I think the guard said. Michael Thomas, the guard that found him, he said he cut him down. You see the edge of his noose thing? That's a hemmed edge. That wasn't cut. Okay. If this was tied to something, this would be wrinkled. It would be marked from there. You know, like here you see light creases in this part. There would be something here showing that this was tied to something. Okay, here's another question I have. He was dead when they took him in. When they found him, and he was wearing. I checked through someone who was there who said, I guess, that he was wearing in the cell, and he was wearing his orange boxer shorts and T shirt. The prison clothing. Okay, Epstein. They take his dead body out, and it was either they cut the stuff off of him because I have Pictures of the boxer shorts cut. Who dressed the dead body with the hospital gown? Okay, dead bodies, you cover with the sheet. He wasn't going to run down the hall in the hospital with his balls flapping in the wind. He didn't have to hide. So who made that decision? Now, I know that when they took him to the hospital, there were four people in the room, and somebody had a handheld video and, like, they were working down at the hospital. Where's the tape?

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Okay, how do you know that, Epstein? I was told. Question. Okay. Also, there is a question of why was he moved? Because, you know. You know what? Indiscernible is redacted. Yes, Epstein. You know, you die. You fall on your back, your gut turns purple because you. Indiscernible. Question. Okay, Epstein. Now, he was moved. So I want to find out from Michael Thomas, what position was Jeffrey in when he found him? And I'll know the answer to that because he was sitting, like, right by Indiscernible. You know, your ass in the back, your legs are going to go, you know, if you're leaning forward, doing it that way. But indiscernible, your legs are going to go, you know. So what position was he in after they found him? Question. So you said Michael Thomas made statements. Which statements? Indiscernible. Epstein. Well, he said he cut him down. Question. Where did you get that statement from? Epstein? It was in the paper, Mr. Richmond. It was Epstein. That was that question, like, recently or was that Epstein. No question. At the time. Epstein, at the time. Richmond. At the time. They hadn't received the statements from him then, did they? Epstein? Yeah, he was indiscernible at the time. But, you know, he said. I mean, that's what he said. He would cut him down and said, you up or you messed up? You know, when the supervisor. He said he messed up, and he didn't do the checks or something to that effect. Question. Okay. All right, so we're gonna wrap up right here, and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to get right back to that explosive interview that Mark Epstein gave to the OIG investigators. Mr. Richmond. Indiscernible. Mark Epstein. That's his neck. All right, if I strangle you now, that, number one, does not look like a sheet. It looks more like an Electric cord. Because he had a CPAP machine in his room with an electric cord. Question. Okay, Epstein, that does not look like a sheet. Plus, if he had a sheet around his neck, it would be discolored from the secretions from his skin. Okay, now if I strangle you metaphorically with an electric indiscernible, you won't get a groove in your neck because your internal self pressure will flatten your skin back out. Like you might get a little abrasion mark or rub mark, but you won't get a groove stuck in your neck. That takes at least two hours. That's how we know he was dead for at least two hours. Because of that. Okay, that's uncontroverted. Richmond. It's not consistent with what you thought was demonstrated as the noose. And that comment was made by Richmond.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Right, Richmond. Evidence with indiscernible. Epstein. He could have been for six hours, but a minimum of two. That's Dr. Boden, you know, opinion, which I take is more of indiscernible as opposed to it. That's not a sheet. That looks more like an electric cord. Also, you see these marks above the groove line?

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Okay, Epstein, if you hang yourself and you put something around your neck and you hang yourself, okay, it's going to slip up. It's going to go high on your neck. If anything, the skin below the mark is going to be abraded or roughed up because the noose is don't indiscernible. You're not going to get marks above your noose. It won't go down your neck won't mark above the noose. The noose line or whatever, the ligature, whatever was used. You know where these marks above the line. That means also if you hang yourself, that line goes up, it goes to your ears. You strangle with a garrote. That's more straight back. I mean, the line goes all the way back. And that's what to expect. Okay, so here's the closer look, the better look. That's not the noose. It's not a sheet doing that. That's being abraded from that. Also his eyes. I'm going to have pictures of it. When you strangle, you know, the little blood vessels in your eyes burst. Richmond. Indiscernible, Epstein. The tipia, whatever. And it's exhibited here. Also. He has a cut on his arm here, you know, so you can see the groove is in there. That groove is not coming out. What number is that? That may Be the list. Hold on. Let's reboot.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

When did you last quick question. You mentioned that you heard from somebody that they had in your time at the hospital. Who did you hear that from? Mr. Epstein? Do you have a specific name Epstein? No. Okay, there is the Indiscernible. Where is the little indiscernible? Because there is a cut on his lip here. Look at that. There's a bruise on the back of his neck here. Oh, there's another question I had before I forget is in the paperwork. The last guards to see him was toven Oel and indiscernible you see here. It's just like a little indiscernible. Another thing you should be investigating assuming he was killed is redacted because I was also told this was through somebody who indiscernible through the attorney because somebody was underwater. He said that somebody was indiscernible. So you know, there is an old saying that anyone can commit murder, but it takes an artist to commit suicide. If this was done, somebody who was put on that indiscernible to do this. Somebody was indiscernible. He was killed, you know, back to his cell. Anyone else after the fact of time have been transferred off to. Because if someone was indiscernible to do this, I don't know if he's lost Indiscernible. Find out who was on that cord. You know, that was two weeks practically redacted. Who told you that someone was indiscernible? Epstein, a journalist. Indiscernible. He lied.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Now that is something we would very much like to follow up on. Was there any can you talk to someone about how that would discernible or not. Epstein, I will ask if I can get you the indiscernible redacted. Okay, Epstein. I've also heard that there's like 20 plus guards that were like their furlough that haven't worked since Indiscernible redacted. That's the same noose on the floor. Epstein. Yes, Mr. Epstein. Yeah, that's not cut. It's kind of indiscernible. And it's not, you know, I mean it's pretty standard sizes, I believe. And this would be discolored from the secretions of his neck. Things I will also tell you is that in the 2016 election my brother didn't tell me why indiscernible. What he told me is he said that he knew about Indiscernible Trump Indiscernible because they would have to cancel the election. My brother is also indiscernible. He's worked with Steve Bannon, who's worked with Indiscernible. Steve Bannon has hours of videotape. I know this because my brother said he worked with him and on that day he said he stopped hanging out with Trump when he realized indiscernible in papers they're reading, he stopped hanging out with Trump and like he fell apart. It was bullshit. Everybody was like indiscernible. He stopped hanging out with Trump when he realized Trump was a dick. That's exactly what he said. And I think indiscernible. All right. And I don't have any proof, but if this was murder, then the government would probably indiscernible. And I know also that hurting somebody else in a federal prison, that the DEA agent transported to a maximum security. He's a real badass and carried on and felt even worse. You know, he was brought out to be indiscernible. They handcuffed him before they uncuff him. And he was a DEA agent who was getting the credibility as a criminal, as a bad guy, a troublemaker. So it's justice from. You can put people in prison that have indiscernible. I was told that by somebody. So yeah. So also the thing I wanted to show you here, the reason I honestly, to be honest with you, I think Trump is behind it. If someone was closer on the inside told me Trump indiscernible after his death, you know, someone who knows more more about this than I do Redacted. Well, when you say that Trump was a crook or that your brother said that indiscernible. Can you give me more information other than just that, Mr. Epstein? No, he didn't tell me that. But if you were a legal businessman, you would know that Trump is a crook. Everybody knows Trump's a crook. That's why no legitimate real estate people would deal with him.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

And when you say crook though, can you just kind of explain that? Epstein, he robs people he probably close to the wealth he has comes from the money he didn't pay people he screwed over and over and over. And he pays them like a percentage of what he owes them. They sign non disclosure agreements. That's how he slides and everybody knows that. Alright, now this video from before my brother's death indiscernible. But wait, I'm going to get to the beginning of the part, Ms. Richmond. Some of the information about this is also indiscernible when you're talking about indiscernible. Epstein well, let me see if I can oh, he asked them. All right, so this is before he died.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

So we're looking at Mr. Epstein. I've met Trump Redacted President Trump there, as well as the news reporter. Mr. Epstein. O'Reilly. Bill O'Reilly question Do you know when that was done? Mr. Epstein it was prior to his death. That was Question Prior to the death. Epstein but you know, I mean, personally, I think Trump was jealous that people indiscernible and wanted to take that power. That's indiscernible to Trump. Indiscernible. You know, Richmond I noticed that. Not your strongest argument? Epstein no, it's not my strongest argument. It's that's an opinion. Okay, but this is my strongest argument.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

The so when's the last time you spoke with Jeffrey Epstein? The Thursday night before he was arrested.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Do you remember around when that date would have been? EPSTEIN yeah, July 8th or 9th or something.

[B]

REDACTED.

[A]

Okay. Epstein On a Thursday night.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

So 2019. Epstein yeah, yeah. It was right before his death. So he called me if he was in Paris. He called me just the usual, you know, indiscernible, you know. And then the next day he, you know, flew back and he was arrested that Friday. Saturday morning his attorneys called me and told me he was arrested.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

And how often would you talk with Jeffrey up until then? Epstein we would talk every couple of weeks or something like that. A week, a month, you know, we emailed something, whatever, you know, just tryin and I keep telling him what's hanging with the family stuff and we indiscernible stories. He used to hang out with Billy Idol though, so he would tell me funny things that we had on set. I guess Billy Idol is a funny guy. You know, we just used to keep check Redacted. I don't know where we heard this information from, but I was told I was informed that you were estranged for like a number of years.

[B]

Is that correct?

[A]

Epstein no. Question. You hadn't seen him? EPSTEIN I haven't seen him. Question. Okay. Epstein My mother died in 2004. Since that time, maybe I saw him a handful of times and the last time was seven years prior to his death. Okay, so you hadn't seen him four or seven years? Epstein yeah. But you spoke over the telephone a number of times a week. Yeah. And okay. And. Epstein yeah, it's like for instance, I mean I have the email exchange. And when he sent me the video clip that back Indiscernible, you know, and I asked him, you know, what's this for? You know. And he said, indiscernible testimony. I said, you were subpoenaed.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Huh? Epstein. He said no, he was just. He was doing stuff. And you know, he just, he said I thought indiscernible. He thought I would find it funny. I remember it was like he was had a beer in the video and I've never seen my brother with a beer before. So I wrote back, I said the funniest part is you were with a beer. And he wrote back, he said that you could tell who I was. My disguise didn't work. You know, it was just. It was just banter between brothers. So that was the last time I spoke with him was that Thursday night before he was indiscernible.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Okay. Do you know anything about his state of mind leading up to he gets cut off by Epstein? Yeah, I know who he spoke to the day before he died.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

And who did he speak to? And Epstein. He spoke to someone who was close to him. I mean and they had indiscernible not a clue indiscernible that this happened. And most of his. One of his attorneys gave an indiscernible was publicly saying that he spoke to Jeffrey. Jeffrey was very upbeat. He was also thought that he had good taste using a discernible non prosecution agreement he had from Florida from years back. So. And also when Jeffrey was first arrested, his attorneys call me and asked me if I would back and help him with his bell. They said it's indiscernible. Other people indiscernible participate in the bell because they should indiscernible. And then Jeffrey was not going to flee. He wasn't fleeing indiscernible. Not that he would do that anyhow because he indiscernible. And that's what put me on the map. Most people didn't even know Jeff had a brother.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Okay. Epstein. We had a social life together. And so that's where my head dating back, you know, referred to as indiscernible Proctologist. Every journalist on the planet would indiscernible to try and find some dirt on me to try to make me tell this kind of stuff. But yeah, we had two separate lives. And so bell was denied. And then he had a Bell hearing coming up two days after he Died. And this time, and he was pretty up like, you know, his jets, the house, those hundred million dollars worth of stuff for the bell. The highest bail in the United states ever was $100 million. So. Indiscernible. So that's the highest bail they ruled on. When they were going through the appeal on the bill, his attorneys called me up and they asked me if I would guarantee his entire bail. And it has since doubled. And I agreed to it. Question. Okay. Epstein. And so there might have been a chance he got bail in two days. Richmond. Right. Epstein. And then he would have been under house arrest. He would have paid four guards. They would have had an ankle monitor, camera, whatever it would take to do this all. So if you, and I think, you know, if he was going to take himself out, wait two days, you know, if you get bail, then you at least are home for a year before the trial comes up. If nothing else. Indiscernible. Doesn't make sense. Epstein. If Jeffrey went, I, I don't think Jeffrey would do that.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

So you did actually agree to the bell? Epstein. Yeah.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

And that was two days after he was found. Epstein. No. Richmond. That's the day. Epstein. The hearing was supposed to be. That's right. He gets interrupted. And I agreed before he was dead. But the hearing was supposed to take place like he died. I think it was August 9th or something. The hearing was scheduled for like 11th or something. There was like a two day gap.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

And then do you remember how much the bell was? Epstein. Close to 100 million.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

It was close to 100. Epstein. Yeah.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Still. Just to clarify, you mentioned the hundred million dollar bill and your guarantee on top of it. So that was technically 200 million, Mr. Epstein. Right. And his friend David Mitchell put up some. I don't know how much David put up, but he also, in the initial pool at First Indiscernible House in Florida, David also put up some. Indiscernible. David Mitchell is the one who the friend and I heard he was reaching, you know, Indiscernible. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up this episode right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with the Mark Epstein interview with the OIG Inspectors. Redacted now, as far as the person that he. Were you saying that he spoke with someone on the telephone prior to August 9th or 10th? Epstein. The night redacted or something? Epstein. The evening before he died? Because it was indiscernible. Yeah. And was that a female? Yes, it was. And do you want to say the name and ask if that's corrected? Is the name redacted? Epstein. Yes. Is that who he spoke to? Epstein. Yes. And you spoke to who is redacted? To Mr. Epstein? Epstein. A friend.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

A childhood friend, a longtime friend. Epstein. A number of years. Were they in a relationship? Mr. Epstein. His exact nature of it? I don't know because I didn't know her, but I know she's been. I just found out she was in the picture. A number of years, I believe. Eight years.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

In a romantic relationship? Epstein. I believe so, yeah. What? You didn't know? Confirmation. I can't ask Jeff. Right, obviously. Have you spoken with her? Epstein. Yes. And did she say that they were in a relationship? Epstein. Yeah, she did. Epstein. I believe it to be so. And I found pictures. And have you seen. Have you spoken with her since August 9, 2019? Epstein.

[B]

Yup.

[A]

Did she tell you what the conversation took place during? Indiscernible? Epstein. He said he sounded upbeat and that she didn't think he committed suicide. It didn't sound like he was doing that. But did she say anything that they talked about, though? Epstein. No. I didn't want to get too personal. And, you know, at the time, it was like, you know, my brother is dead. I. Indiscernible. Conversation that I need to know, you know, when did you speak with her? Epstein. A number of times since then.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Okay, but when specifically you talked about the conversation that she had with Jeffrey? Indiscernible. Epstein. I don't remember the exact date, but I think it was just a few weeks of the death.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Okay, but she didn't tell you anything specifically about why he contacted her or what they spoke about? Epstein. No question. No, just that he sounded upbeat. Epstein. Yeah, he was. Yeah. That's like she made Indiscernible.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Was she surprised that he called her? Epstein. I don't. I don't know, to be honest with you. I didn't ask her that much. She didn't say. Oh, yeah, I didn't get any kind of reaction from her.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

All right. Do you know if Jeffrey changed his will leading up to August 9th? Epstein. I was told he changed his will. He did. Now, traditionally, my brother and I were not in each other's wills because I don't need his money. He don't need my money. So he changed the will from my understanding. Now, I'm not the executive of his estate. It has nothing to do with his estate. The executives don't even talk to me or anything. But from what I understand, all of his assets were put into a trust or they were supposed to be put into a trust after Jeffrey died and they paid out all the money to the victims and his.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

And the trust dictates what happens to his money. I'm not the trustee and I'm not privy to his trust.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Who did you hear it from? That he put it in his will? He changed his will? Epstein. Well, it was public knowledge. Yeah. And his attorneys also told me that he changed his will. But this is in the paper. This was indiscernible. And he was trying to use that as well. He was contemplating suicide. I think maybe he was contemplating being killed in prison and wanted to make sure that his will was up to date. I don't think it was fear. I don't think it was fear of suicide. I think, you know, I don't think he was planning suicide. I think anything he was indiscernible about being in prison. Indiscernible. Stories.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

And do you know anything about him? Like being placed on suicide watch and taken off? Do you know anything? Epstein. Yeah, he was placed on suicide watch and he was taken off. Exactly the reasons, I don't know, they never told me.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Do you know if anyone from outside, such as his attorneys or anybody like that called anyone to ask him to be taken off suicide watch? Epstein. Only what the paper said, so I don't have any first hand knowledge of it.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

And you've never gotten to speak with his attorneys? They never disclosed the information? Epstein. Not very much. No question. Okay, so just the papers. Other than having that conversation with Indiscernible. Have you spoken with anyone on the outside? Epstein. No question. Right. Epstein. Oh, so David Schoen, the attorney who was going to go ask me because he also said that indiscernible. Suicide. Yeah, I was surprised because he felt, he said Jeff felt positive about the defense they were going to go with, you know, in the prosecution.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

And David Choan met them on Friday. Epstein. Excuse me?

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

You mentioned David Schoen met with him on Friday. Epstein. No, no, no, no. David Shown had met with him in jail, I think before he died. Not the day, I think it was before redacted. You mentioned something about a non prosecution from Florida. Can you explain that? Epstein. Yeah, in 2006, I think it was when he first got in trouble in Florida, you know, when he got back whatever. He got his sweetheart deal, which I was told he got a sweetheart deal because the girls that were planning to be victims were actually to determined to be very unreliable witnesses because they found their Facebook pages with drugs and sex and one of the girls was a prostitute and a mother. You know, all kinds of these are not clean cut little catholic school girls, you know. So he got made the deal back in 2006 and part of the deal was he had to sign the prosecution agreement for him and the other unnamed individuals. And that's what he was living on ever since. You know, just there was this note. From what I understand, I haven't seen any evidence that he was with underage women at that point in time. Like get out of jail and then you know, 13 months never see that he got a house, you know, he got a good deal after that. I mean we used to. There's a joke, you know, and I told him, you know, I'm his brother and said some passports scare him. So a girl comes in, wants to show him that she's in the estate team. You know, we're joking around so. And as far as I know, there have been no claims of him being with underage women and all the stuff that he. Well, I don't think it. It's the case, but yes, redacted. You mentioned the non prosecution agreement as the fact that he believed he was getting out of prison. Epstein. No, no, he got out of prison, he served his time and he was sentenced too. But at the time, and this is public, he had a non prosecution agreement with the federal government. You know, the same one that was with the Southern District or whatever. What Florida park or. I don't know the like the lingo. I don't get in trouble. So I'm not up on the indiscernible. As far as I know, this one is federal government. Epstein. And if you make a deal in the non prosecution agreement with the federal government. Well that's the federal government. It's not like the New York people. Federal here have the right to indiscernible. Greenland. Epstein. So was it, why was it your sd? You know, another theory about that. Okay, is that in the screen before he was arrested, one of the victims went to the FBI and said that she was in his house. It was down on first street. And he had this expensive camera system and boom, boom, boom. Now go to the bathroom, all this kinds of stuff. Now, the one thing about Jeffrey is that Jeffrey was a bullshitter. He. He would say things just to be provocative. Now, he had an extensive video room when we first walk into the house on the right. Because I was there years ago with lots of monitors, but they were all on the outside of the building for security. And inside the front door and inside the back door, there wasn't cameras throughout the house. And I've spoken with people who knew the house, people who worked at the house, and they like, said that extensive video system, that house didn't exist. But the FBI got this information that it did. And then a few months later, he gets arrested and they break into his house with a search warrant. And I would like to see that search warrant. That is what. Because in the search warrant you have to state what you're looking for, right? You can't just use it as a fishing trip. So what is it that they were looking for? Because they broke into his house and they cut the safe open. But you heard that he had about 70,000 in cash and diamonds. Well, he's a very wealthy man. He does not have cash and diamonds. You know, and he had some expired old passport for some indiscernible. Long story for that. But what. What were they looking for? Who was indiscernible to get into this house to look for? Who were they looking for? And are they looking for the tapes of somebody on the street? They had some tapes, they're not exist. Which didn't exist. And then he was arrested. And, you know, it's cool. And like I said, he set you up as a crook. I said he has enough word on both gang weights to have the election canceled in 2006. This doesn't alleviate. If you. If you forget everything else, everything I showed you here and everything you know, now, would you just say, yes, it was a suicide? I wouldn't. And not because, like I said, not because I'm his brother. It just doesn't add up to a suicide. Like I said, and trust me, you, if he committed suicide, my life would have been a lot easier this time. I've had death threats. I've been in touch with the FBI and NYPD for those two years, and I have hired armed guards for that. When I met with Steve Bannon after I saw the tape that my brother sent to me after his death, I Contacted Steve Bannon. And I'm indiscernible. What's this about? You know, and I know that Bannon. I actually had a Indiscernible. I didn't. Because I didn't know who was indiscernible. I knew him walking to a hotel and be talked. Taking out the garbage, like show, you know, and armed guards. And Bannon told me about the 16 hours of tape, and he told me, he said that the tape should protect him and that the attorney client privilege as witness preparation. But Bannon is not an attorney.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

And which tapes were you talking about right now, Epstein? The 16 hours of videotape interview. That Indiscernible. With my brother.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Off of what we've talked about, at least thus far. Who do you think we should speak with that would have the firsthand knowledge that would be willing to speak with us, Epstein? Well, I think you should talk to the guards, the EMT guards. And I think it's redacted or something.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Those are the two EMT guards. Epstein, Find out from them who was directing the operation in the prison. Why did they move the body out when they weren't supposed to move the body out? Who was directing them to do that? Who was there?

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Okay, Epstein. And then in the hospital when he was there, I mean, I don't know. Do the fire department guys wear body cameras? EMTs? I don't know. You know, but in. Like I said, there was a handful of cameras in the hospital. When they took them, there were four people there, two EMTs and two other people. And someone would have had a video camera of that. And why did they dress him in a hospital gown?

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Okay, Epstein. You know, why are they trying to make him look like. Bannon told me there's a prison culture here. Nobody dies in prison. You know, they find a dead body, they ship them to the hospital, and it's declared dead in the hospital. That's traditional in the prison system because they don't want to deal with the dead body and prison. And that seems to be indiscernible as well. But what are they trying to, you know, to take him out, trying to innovate him. These guys are trained. Yeah. Now they know he's not coming back.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Yeah, Epstein. So why the charade, and why are we in here? There was a camera guy there, right? Who took the photographs. You got people questioning. How did he know to be there? Why was he there by the prison early? That Morning. To take photographs. And indiscernible. No doubt.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Which camera guy are you talking about? Richmond. The guy that had indiscernible poster. Epstein. Yeah, I knew his name.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

I believe it was redacted. He was at the hospital or he was at the prison. Epstein. At the prison.

[B]

Redacted. Okay, redacted.

[A]

When Mr. Epstein was being rolled out. Epstein. Yeah. He's on the gurney and he's covered in a sheet. They have a neck brace on him. He's innovated. They have a thing down his throat and that squeezing one of those the a balloons to try to get air into his lungs. Yeah. Which use, unlike drowning victims. And indiscernible. So I was like, why? You know, why this charade? And also from the time they got there, they took him down. There's no pulse. I. Obviously he's not breathing. You know, the body can only last a few minutes under that condition. They got up there, he was found dead. And, you know, they do whatever they do in there, they cut him open, they try to defibrillate him. Right. Because that's the thing on the other picture, the defibrillator angle. And there's electric cord in the room because he slept with a CPAP machine, which I didn't know he used one, but turns out he did. And he was in the room with. With his electric cord, you know, and in the photographs. Let me see if I can find this photo here.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Why are you looking that up? I know you might have answered this. Did you have any communication with him when he was in prison? Epstein. No.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Did he email you or call you? Epstein. No.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Anything like that? Epstein. Nope.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

What about any other family?

[B]

Redacted as redacted said.

[A]

Did he contact anybody? Epstein. No, there's no one in the family.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

So you don't know anybody aside from his attorneys who spoke to indiscernible on his night or spoke to Indiscernible? Epstein. No.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

He spoke with you? Epstein. I sent him a letter in prison. I have no idea if he ever got it.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

In terms of other siblings, you were his only sibling. Epstein. Yeah.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

The parents. Epstein, Deceased. Epstein. My father died in 91, 30 years ago, and my mother died in 2004. Epstein. 2004. Yeah. They were older. It was right around when Jeff first got in trouble in 2006. He called me and asked me if I'm at his house. Which is, you know, like, after my mother died, I moved back because most of our communication, it seems Jeff was rather indiscernible. Health issues and being close to the family. Like, he called me to his house because. Because he wanted to tell me himself that he was getting in trouble, you know, for indiscernible. And the first thing I said to him, I said, well, indiscernible, Mom's dead. It's looking like they're about to kill her. Indiscernible. Some issues. So redacted. How long did you take care? So you said that you had ghosted a large part of indiscernible. And how much do you indiscernible, Epstein? You can hold whatever. His bell was redacted and cut off. Epstein. Well, his bell. His bell itself was 100 plus million somewhere in that. I don't know the exact number, but whatever it was, I paid them.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here, and in the next episode, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of. Of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to dive right back in to the Mark Epstein interview with the OIG investigators. Epstein. Well, his bell. His bell itself was 100 plus 100 million somewhere in that range. I don't know the exact number, but whatever it was, I paid them.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, Epstein. I have his indiscernible. The house in Florida is a small part. Epstein. Technically the first bell. He called me and asked me if I would participate in his bell because he's explaining that it's a better show if other people are willing. So I said, sure. Put in my house in Florida, Epstein. That's worth 200, 000. That's not indiscernible. And then come the appeal, you know, indiscernible days. But prior to his death, they called me and they explained they. That, you know, they're going to do this appeal. And he was pretty much, you know, at the house, which you can find indiscernible. I think he was in jail for indiscernible, you know, a couple of close to 100 nights. They asked me if I would guarantee his indiscernible. I said yes. So I don't remember the exact number, but he wasn't worried about it because, like I said, he gets cut off by redacted. No, no, I'm just. Epstein. Cuts him off. I'm just going to show up Redacted.

[B]

For.

[A]

Especially when we had heard that you guys were estranged. But if I can say, my guess would be that you actually weren't, and you actually agreed to post bail. And Indiscernible. How much money was it, Epstein. Up to? It was somewhere in the range of 100 million.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Okay. You got that type of money, Mr. Epstein? Indiscernible. You'll see.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

But you mentioned another. There was one other person I thought you said that was also involved. Epstein.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

David Mitchell. Question. Just the two of you? Epstein. As far as I know, yeah. That's the only people I've ever known. Yeah. Richmond. I don't know if that bell application was final. It might be. Epstein. Okay, give me Indiscernible.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Cuts him off. And it was Jeffrey's lawyers that reached out to you about that? Epstein. Yeah, well, the one lawyer redacted, he works in prison. Indiscernible. Actually, yeah, a long time ago, like 30 years ago, he worked in a law firm. And Jeffrey and I both use that law firm. I used it for law stuff. Indiscernible. Always there. But I haven't seen him in a very long time until this. Indiscernible. So he might be personal. Yeah. Okay. In these pictures, he's by the cell. You see this electric cord here? It's like in the room access, he would have to have the door. The door swung open and the electrical cord was there. That was, I think, his defibrillator or something. And I've seen the machine. But you could see there is an electric cord in that picture of the electric cord. What is that? Yeah, and in the picture I'm looking for, it shows that electric cord. Really? It's plugged into the extension on the other side of the door, so it was obviously moved.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Indiscernible. Epstein. Yeah, let me go back. Let me get rid of this and go back.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Okay. Are these the scenes for us, Epstein? No, this is my only copy of these.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Okay. Epstein. Okay, here. Oh. Oh. Oh, hell. All right, you see here, the electric cord is on the outside of the room. And the other picture, the door was opened and this knot and stuff was on the inside of the door. So somebody moved that for some reason because he didn't. Indiscernible. And it's just like a discrepancy.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

I see Epstein. And supposedly there Was a lot of activity after he was gone. At least that you can see in the picture.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

So it's always good for us to have indiscernible along with the photographs and perhaps the indiscernible. Epstein. I can make the copies and send them to you.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Oh my. That would be great. Epstein. No problem. Epstein. Yeah, Give me your cards and I'll send Redacted. Okay, Epstein. So you guys can. He gets cut off. Well, if there's anything, if there's something else that we're missing. Epstein. Yeah, Redacted. Just let me know. When you first started, were you aware that Mr. Epstein went through his life? He indiscernible with his life. You didn't seem surprised. Were you surprised? Epstein? I wasn't surprised. I'm pretty level headed, you know, so I don't. So these don't surprise me. I've seen a lot of in my life, you know, I haven't been in the military, but military people have told me I should have been in the military because I'm always the one with the cool head, you know, when all the breaks loose. So I wasn't surprised. It was a little bit shocking that he was dead. But like I said, I assumed, okay, you heard on CNN that he committed suicide. So you originally, you don't have reason to question. You just assume that that's the case. I mean, that and the reason that he committed suicide, again, knowing, you know, that he was potentially facing a long term prison sentence. He didn't have kids to worry about. He didn't have to worry about me. Our parents are dead. There's no other relative that he was close to in that way. So I assumed, okay, that's what he did, you know. But as I finished my breakfast, you know, it's. But you know, I didn't. And like I said, I assumed if that was his choice, then I respect it because look, if I was in his shoes, I have kids, you know, like I said, if I didn't have kids and I was potentially facing what I did, you know, we're not religious people. We were both raised atheists. So, you know, we don't have that kind of fear or anything. Yeah, I might choose to take myself out, but I would certainly wait for the bail hearing to pass. That's what indiscernible. And Jeffrey wasn't a stupid man. So, you know, I'm sure he would have waited for that as well, because it doesn't make sense to kill himself two days before a Bail hearing where your bail is going to be the highest bail ever in the United States with a guarantee.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

I know you mentioned you didn't communicate with him after his arrest, his last arrest in July. But before that, did he ever mention about possibly committing suicide? Was he ever depressed? Epstein? No, never, never, never, never. No question. Did he ever show any tendency toward wanting to take his life? Epstein? Never, never. No, that wasn't him. He had no reason to. He had like he had a life that you and me go anywhere we want. He had more money than God. He did what he wanted, you know, if he wanted to do it with me. If he had, yes. People surrounding him who catered his eye way. I think it means every way. But it says I weigh her Redacted, right? Epstein flying around on his private jets. He was the indiscernible all over the place. Lots of women. You know, he doesn't side story my mother indiscernible. You know, obviously you're going to settle down. And I said to her, I said, he hasn't settled down because if he found a quality woman to settle down with instead of these bimbos that he's hanging out with, she would eventually say, yes, you know, why don't we do this instead of that? That was what he wanted. I said, and that's why she gets shown the door. Because he didn't want to do anything that he didn't want to do and he was able to have the life that way. There was no reason for him to kill himself or think about killing himself. He was healthy, he wasn't facing any medical issues or whatever, you know, redacted being his brother and knowing him the way you do, do you think that the bill, if he was actually going to be released, would he have any fear of being out in public? Because people then now perceiving him a certain way. Epstein, well, he had that whole thing from 2006. He's been shunned by, you know, society since that first thing in 2006. You know, like when he's in business, he used to, you know, handle the indiscernible. That's where he made a lot of his money, you know what I'm saying? With the indiscernible. So Wexlon Wexner distance himself from that because, you know, people would be seeing the old Jeffrey Epstein because of his initial thing in 2006, in that period of time. So yeah, so he already went through that shunning, you know, and you know, it is what it was he was trying to rehabilitate his reputation at the time. That's why Bannon was helping him, because Bannon was going to come out with another story. And there's another. There's people from Australia. And you'll see soon in the paper that they're coming out with a whole story about this case with Glenn Maxwell and the brother and these victims who they're claiming were not really victims, you know. You know that these are just, as my mother used to say, good time. Charlie's girls looking for a good time. You know, if it was so victimish, you know, then how come all these girls brought their friends to participate in these parties? There was an interview on TV last year. It was set in Britain. Some British woman who. Indiscernible. And. And my brother, who had been to some of the dinner parties at my brother's house. And so, you know, and she started saying there were two journalists. Indiscernible. She started saying how these girls were not victims. You know, they were enjoying the high life, flying around in private jets, being in these amazing homes. I mean, his house pays them, you know, and then. And when she started turning the tide on these poor victims, the journalists shut it down. Because at the time, nobody wants to hear anything positive about Jeff. Nobody wants to hear anything negative about his victims. You know, Jeff was just enjoying the time.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Do you know if he was aware that you'll put it up and agree to be the guarantee or guarantor for the bell? Epstein. I think his attorneys told him that. Yeah. Question. Same thing with David Mitchell. You think the attorney's screwed?

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Epstein. I would imagine so, yeah. Question. Okay, Richmond, you can check the MCC records that he was meeting with his attorneys all day and Indiscernible. The entire day, every day. Richmond. Because all of the rest of us had to wait because you couldn't see anybody else from the shoe. Epstein. Indiscernible also went a couple the weeks before he died. He had that incident with Redacted. His cellmate at the time. Tartaglione. Uh huh. Epstein. There's conflicting stories about it. You know, David Shone said that and, and publicly that Tartaglioni attacked him one afternoon and it was trying to say that was like a suicide attempt. So who knows where it took place or if Tartaglione attacked him and then Tartaglioni was still on the tier. Indiscernible.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Now, do you know if Jeffrey spoke at all with anyone, if his attorneys know anything about Epstein? Being attacked by Tartaglioni. Epstein. David Schoen is the one that would talk to me about that.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

So that's Epstein cuts him off. Like I said, his attorney don't give me very much information on that. I was involved in the case and that Indiscernible in place and you don't see my name anywhere. Yes. Question. Redacted. But that Jeffrey specifically told him is what you're saying. Epstein. Yeah. Question. Just heard of that. Epstein. No, no. David shown met with Jeffrey in jail and that's why David Shone said that Jeffrey was upbeat about about the defense.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Okay. Epstein. You know, relying on another prosecution. Oh, that's what got Bill Cosby out. Right? Another prosecution. A non disclosure agreement. Yeah. Which I believe is a defense that Glenn Maxwell, you know but I'm not an attorney and they charge indiscernible.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Anything else we know about or follow up with Epstein. Like I said, like I would like to talk. You know who were the unnamed guards? Number one and number two. You know a list of people on in the tier. Michael Thomas found him in the morning. So he was in there. Assuming that bar was right and nobody went in and out. Like I said, if he was going to be killed, nobody would go in and out to kill him. Right. How you going to do that? But if you plan something, you know, to kill him, you know, that's how you commit suicide. That's a lot of things a suicide redacted prior to getting murdered. No, he wasn't. He was murdered. Epstein. But the dude who murdered made it look like a suicide. That's the indiscernible. Oh, I got it. I understand what you're saying. Alright. So yeah from you or anything that we've discussed, if you want to attach that video as well as the photographs and the recording, you can just send it to us through your attorney. Epstein. Okay.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

And I'm grateful that we can have other stuff to follow up on. Epstein. Okay. Epstein. Yeah. So the guards. Who the guards were. Like I said, I wouldn't mind talking to Michael Thomas and finding out what position was Jeffrey in when he first saw him, when he first found him. That's very crucial. What position Jeffrey was in when Michael found him. The videotape in the hospital, you know, with the Indiscernible. You know with the FD and line guys. The that we both talk. I tried to go down to the station or the shoe. Yeah. Indiscernible around to talk to them and I'm indiscernible. Who won't talk to you? Epstein. I was trying to get the fire department guys oh, okay. Epstein. To try to get them to talk to me, but they won't talk. I'm the next of kin. I'm entitled to all this information.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Sure. EPSTEIN. And they ain't got shit, you know, other than this paperwork.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Yeah. Epstein. Also, what happens with the test and with the DNA and. Indiscernible. Was that test ever done? What were the results of that test? I mean, if it was a real artist, then you may not find anything. Was the test done? And what led the chief medical examiner to declare it was a suicide just a few days after it was pending. Pending forever. Investigation. RICHMOND There was never an investigation. Epstein. Yeah, what investigation took place? There was no indication that any investigation took place, which, like, other than bar saying, well, he sort of nobody went in and out that convinced him it was suicide. RICHMOND. That came later. EPSTEIN. Yeah, it came later. That came later.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Are you aware of when they actually thought they deemed it a suicide? RICHMOND it was the Friday. The. The following Friday.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

So that Friday. So he was found on Saturday. The following. That Friday. EPSTEIN. It was like five days. Richmond. Yeah. EPSTEIN. It was something like five days. Richmond. But we had heard from the media that they were changing it. That's why we called into the medical examiner's office, like, what the hell is going on? What are you talking about? Where are you going or getting this from? It made no sense because there hadn't been a full investigation. EPSTEIN the city pathologist and Dr. Baden, they did the autopsy. RICHMOND they were present? Yes. EPSTEIN they were present. They did the autopsy. They said this looks more like murder than a suicide. And then the chief medical examiner declares it's a suicide from before. What is she basing that on?

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

When they do the autopsy, is it recorded? Richmond. Yes.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Is it video recorded? Richmond it's audio recorded. EPSTEIN. And the photographs?

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Dr. Indiscernible. Recording. Richmond we don't have the recording redacted. But if there was, he would be doing the recording. Richmond he was there. Epstein yeah, because he spoke it. RICHMOND of course. EPSTEIN he said that he did whatever he asked them to do. Certain things. Indiscernible. So he wouldn't have to do a second autopsy. It would be closer. If he's standing there, they Indiscernible. Asked him whatever he wanted, you know? Yeah, they changed it. We don't understand why. Redacted and did they agree to the to it to be changed? EPSTEIN no. RICHMOND no, but they didn't ask him. EPSTEIN no, he wasn't consulted. RICHMOND he was he was surprised. EPSTEIN yeah, well, you can talk to him if he's around. Go talk to him. Indiscernible for contact information you have, is there any contact information you would like to provide? EPSTEIN for redacted I think Biden or Biden, I mean redacted for any of the people that you we have David Chone, David Mitchell Redacted or can you provide it through your attorney? RICHMOND why don't you just send it all to me and and I'll just forward it to them. Anyone you can think that question that we should you think that we should speak of or to and the contact information that you have, I'm not talking about like the guards or things like that. RICHMOND well, we don't have that redacted, right. And I mean we have all that stuff, but as far as the outside of the government. EPSTEIN oh, well, I'll give you David Sh. Number. I have it right here. Gives him the number. Great guy, by the way, talking to he's really super redacted. What about Mitchell? David Mitchell? EPSTEIN Redacted Because I knew David Mitchell from long ago and I haven't seen or spoken to David Mitchell probably in a couple of decades until this came about. That's when we reconnected. When I found out that he also put money, you know, the bail up for Jeffrey we reconnected. Question what about Mitchell? David Mitchell? EPSTEIN Redacted Because I knew David Mitchell from long ago and I haven't seen or spoken to David Mitchell probably in a couple of decades until this came about. That's when we reconnected. When I found out that he also put money, you know, the bell up for Jeffrey, we reconnected. Anything else? EPSTEIN back in the 90s and early 2000s, Jeffrey and I did stuff all the time. We were much closer to him. But then indiscernible, you know, just got indiscernible. Is there any communication via email that would have been that you had with Jeffrey that would help us out? EPSTEIN well, I might have the back and forth between him and I with the about the videotape. RICHMOND huh? EPSTEIN yeah, that was forwarded to me from Bannon. Yeah, There is nothing else really. Like I said, most of the communication with us was, you know, telling me funny things or just keep them indiscernible with every cousin and things like that.

[B]

So redacted.

[A]

Maybe you talked amongst your attorney. If there is any communication that you guys have that might be helpful for us. Epstein. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Do you know of anyone else that communicated with Jeffrey while he was in prison other than his attorneys? Epstein. While just redacted. Richmond. I don't think. I mean, he doesn't know his social circle. Epstein. Yeah. Richmond. So he doesn't know his friends or who he was in business with or anything along that line. And he's been shut down. I've tried to reach out to people in the estate. He wanted to have wrongful death suit for his brother, but the estate has the right. He doesn't have that right. And they shouldn't, they shouldn't reach out to him. Epstein. Yeah, and I'm not happy about the estate wouldn't give me that right to file a wrongful death suit because even if I did it that way, the money, whatever money is, it's going to bring, look, it's a slam dunk case for wrongful death.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Who was entitled to that money? Was it the estate? Epstein. It belonged to the estate. And who was he gets cut off by Epstein. The trustee. The executives.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Who are they? Epstein.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

And redacted. Wait, what were the name? Epstein.

[B]

Redacted. Redacted.

[A]

Can you spell the last name for me? Mr. Epstein.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

And who was the other person? Questions asked. Epstein. It was redacted. Right? Richmond. I'm not sure. I think there's another executive as well. Epstein. There was a third one as an alternate. Richmond. Right. But I think Epstein cuts her off. Who was declined. Richman. And doesn't want to be part of it. He didn't even know.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

And who are these people? Richmond. The estate executives. Epstein. Well, redacted is long term. Richmond. An attorney. Epstein. That was my brother's private attorney. So he's talking about Darren Indyke. He worked for Jeff for a long time and she's worked with him. Indiscernible.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

I think was redacted. I don't think he's an attorney. I think he's like an accountant or something. He also paid. Indiscernible. And these people are entitled to all. So he's talking about indycan Khan, obviously. Question. And these people are entitled to it all. Epstein. They're in control of the estate. Richmond. It's whatever the trustees, we don't know.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Okay. Epstein. I mean, I believe that the trustees also, when he, you know, money on this day gets transferred off the trust, and then the trust got, you know, it says what's to be done with it. And those guys, I believe, are under the trustee as. As well. Yeah. Now, I don't know. Like I said, the wrongful death case, the wrongful death suit, is that a slam dunk? And I just want to point out, if it was successful, there could have been more money in the pocket for the victims or for whatever, you know, if they're getting his money. But the executives, the executors, chose not to do it. I question that. And I question. Because there's a deal coming in, because both redacted and redacted are being looked at and. And investigated. So they're rolling up all their sleeves. And from what I heard, they've also.

[B]

They're.

[A]

They've hired criminal defense attorneys for the case. So there's some deal coming in. It would be going for wrongful death if something indiscernible.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Okay, well, if there's anything else, Epstein. Okay, you could always contact us by phone or whatever. Epstein. Okay.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

And we will talk some more about that on. Otherwise, we'll look forward to that other email. Epstein. You have cards. Can I have your cards?

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

I don't think I actually have a card, Epstein. Well, if not redacted. Yeah, give it to me, Richmond. Yeah, you can go through me, Epstein. Okay. Okay. Richmond. Okay.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

Well, thank you for taking the time to talk to us, Mr. Epstein. Well, pleasure might be the wrong word.

[B]

Redacted.

[A]

It's 11:40am on September 22, 2021, and we're ending the interview. This is Special Agent Redacted. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.