Summary6 min read

The Epstein Chronicles

Episode: The Bill Gates Epstein Related Congressional Transcripts (Part 10)

Host: Bobby Capucci
Date: June 28, 2026

Overview

In this tenth installment of the series covering Bill Gates’ congressional testimony regarding his connections to Jeffrey Epstein, host Bobby Capucci continues exploring the detailed interactions—both professional and personal—between Gates, his associates, and Epstein. The episode largely centers on Gates’ recollections of key meetings involving Epstein, the nature of communications surrounding Dr. Boris Nikolic’s employment exit, financial arrangements, and the involvement of various individuals in Gates’ private affairs. Capucci gives in-depth attention to email exchanges, motives behind communication gestures, and the ways in which Epstein attempted to inject himself into financial and personal matters related to Gates.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Gates/Epstein Meeting in Washington and Its Purpose

Recap of Meeting:
- The meeting in question took place in Washington State, not D.C., at Gates’ Ventures office, with Jeffrey Epstein present.
- In attendance: Bill Gates, Larry Cohen, and likely Dr. Boris Nikolic.
- Main focus: Dr. Nikolic's exit from Gates' employ (01:20)
- Gates explicitly states he did not seek out Epstein’s involvement in these negotiations, implying Epstein’s presence was unwelcome and unhelpful.
  
  “He [Epstein] had not asked to be involved in these exit negotiations. And so it was, in the end, kind of a worthless meeting.”
  (Bill Gates, 02:15)

2. The "Thank You" Email Chain & Epstein’s Role

Email Exhibit Discussed:
- Email chain from August 9, 2013, between Boris Nikolic and Bill Gates (care of Larry Cohen), asking Gates to thank Epstein for his effort in Nikolic's exit.
- Nikolic’s email:
  
  “Bill, yesterday was a very difficult for both of us. It would be great if you could write Jeffrey a thank you note as he flew out here to try to help. And I think he did. I thanked him with my deepest gratitude. I know he saved me. I think he saved us both.”
  (Email by Boris Nikolic, read at 03:20)
Gates’ Real Thoughts:
- Gates contradicts the suggestion that Epstein provided meaningful help:
  
  “He did not.”
  (Bill Gates, 04:05)
- Gates explains he went along with the “narrative” to expedite a resolution for Dr. Nikolic and keep him satisfied:
  
  “I was willing to go along with the narrative that Jeffrey had been helpful. I wanted to get the thing closed... I don’t feel these comments were made in sincerity, but in the furtherance of, hey, this is Boris’s mindset now.”
  (Bill Gates, 06:10)

3. Financial Arrangements and Tax Concerns

Gift Payment Discussion:
- Congressional questions probe whether Epstein influenced the structuring of any payments as gifts in the Nikolic exit.
- Gates clarifies a half-million-dollar gift to Dr. Nikolic was from six years prior, and unrelated to the exit, predating both Gates and Nikolic’s acquaintance with Epstein.
- Epstein nevertheless tried to use the existence of that gift to inject himself as a “tax adviser.”
  
  “I wasn’t going to send him any tax documents. That was structured as a gift. I paid a gift tax.”
  (Bill Gates, 09:00)
- Notable quote on Gates’ tax diligence:
  
  “I will bet I am more careful about gift taxes than almost any other taxpayer. Yeah, I believe that in my $14 billion of tax payments, I probably paid more gift taxes than others.”
  (Bill Gates, 10:05)

4. Epstein’s Knows About Gates’ Private Affairs

Affair with Mila Antonova (“the Bridge Player”):
- Gates met her at a bridge tournament prior to meeting Epstein.
- Epstein later sent Gates emails referencing Antonova and claimed to have reimbursed her for something, seeking further engagement with Gates (13:20).
- Gates maintains there was no ongoing obligation or discussion about these reimbursements.
- On who knew about the affair, Gates states:
  
  “Not that I’m aware of. Maybe a therapist, but I guess I can exclude my discussions with therapists.”
  (Bill Gates, 15:05)
Affair with Ms. Nigmatullina (the Nuclear Physicist):
- Gates met her through disease modeling and nuclear fission work with TerraPower, not the Gates Foundation, and the affair began after their professional overlap (17:10).
- Gates only learned Epstein knew of the affair when files were released.
  
  “That’s when you found out that Mr. Epstein was aware of this affair is what you’re saying.”
  “Right. In those emails to himself, among the true and false things that he stuck in there, in one of those emails, he mentions her name.”
  (Congressional Counsel & Gates, 18:30)
Affair with Dr. Jacobs:
- Relationship began before 2010, thus before Gates knew Epstein.
- No connection or contact between Dr. Jacobs and Epstein, as far as Gates is aware.

5. Epstein's Attempts to Insert Himself into Gates’ Affairs

Persistent Contact:
- Gates references numerous emails Epstein sent post-contact, including about Antonova, attempting to meddle or connect himself to Gates’ personal and professional affairs (21:00).
False Claims by Epstein:
- Gates specifically rejects Epstein’s claims that Gates had ever asked for these interventions or payments (22:15).

Memorable Quotes

On Epstein’s role in Nikolic’s exit:

“It was, in the end, kind of a worthless meeting.”
(Gates, 02:15)
On coordinated “thank you” gestures:

“I don’t feel these comments were made in sincerity, but in the furtherance of, hey, this is Boris’s mindset now. He feels good.”
(Gates, 06:10)
On financial transparency:

“I’m the most careful about paying taxes of anyone I know.”
(Gates, 09:10)
On Epstein’s meddling:

“There’s a bunch of emails where he’s referring to her [Antonova], even one time purporting that I had asked him to do these things, which is false.”
(Gates, 22:15)

Timestamps for Key Segments

00:55 – Clarification of meeting location and context (WA State, not DC)
02:15 – Gates describes the meeting with Epstein as “worthless”
03:20 – Reading of Nikolic’s email to Gates, urging a thank you to Epstein
04:05 – Gates directly refutes Epstein “saving” him or Nikolic
06:10 – Gates elaborates on going along with the “thankful” narrative for expediency
09:00 – Explanation of the historic, unrelated gift payment to Nikolic
10:05 – Gates defends his tax diligence and transparency
13:20 – Discussion about Epstein’s awareness and communications about Antonova
17:10-18:30 – Details on Ms. Nigmatullina, professional context, and Epstein’s knowledge
21:00 – Gates on Epstein’s unsolicited emails after contact ceased
22:15 – Clear rejection of Epstein’s claims about Gates’ requests

Tone and Context

The tone of the episode is methodical, forthright, and tense, as Gates is methodically questioned about the smallest details, clearly seeking to dissociate Epstein from his business and especially from his personal life.
There’s a distinct theme of reputational defense and a desire to clarify the record, particularly on financial matters and the nature of thank you communications that might otherwise seem to lend greater weight to Epstein’s involvement.

Conclusion

This episode delivers a granular look at Bill Gates' testimony, the efforts by both Gates and his team to limit Epstein’s influence, and the back-and-forth over the optics of their association. It exposes how easily figures like Epstein tried to attach themselves to high-profile negotiations and personal affairs, even after contact ceased, by leveraging minor roles or third-party knowledge. Gates’ responses emphasize both a desire to resolve personnel issues cleanly and to distance himself from any suggestion of financial impropriety or deeper conspiracy with Epstein.

Listeners interested in the intersection of wealth, influence, and reputational management will find this a revealing and nuanced installment.

For referenced documents and additional context, see the episode description box.

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Transcript1 lines

[00:00]
A
What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where he left off with Bill Gates and his interview with Congress. Mr. Spectre, Mr. Gates, in the interest of time, I'm going to try to not introduce too many different things here, so I'll try to structure the questions in a way that we can do that, but just let me know if we need to. We discussed earlier that a meeting occurred with Epstein present in Washington. You mentioned that earlier, and I think I told you that our DOJ records indicated that happened on August 8, 2013. Does that sound about right to you? Jumps in. Sorry, you said D.C. or Washington state. Sorry, excuse me. Seattle. Yeah, the two Washingtons. I call this one dc Answer. Yeah, my chronology shows that a meeting took place in Washington State. Question. Who else was at the meeting? Answer. You know, I think this is a case where Epstein flew out to Seattle and came to the Gates venture's office. And so he would have seen both myself and Larry Cohen as part of his being out there. I don't know if Dr. Nikolic was there or not. Question. What do you recall about the meeting, what was discussed? Answer, I think the meeting was entirely focused on the terms of Dr. Nikolic's exit. And was this a meeting where Mr. Epstein was trying yet again to get additional compensation for Dr. Nikolic and you were refusing? Is that a fair generalization of it? That's the outcome, yes. That he despite, you know, sort of veiled things like saying we should remain friends, you know, I had not asked him to be involved in these exit negotiations. And so it was, in the end, kind of a worthless meeting. Spectre, I'll introduce As Majority Exhibit 4. This is an email chain. The first email which is at the bottom passes out. The first email which is at the bottom is from Friday, August 9, 2013 at 10:47pm The Bates number is EFTA01959891. So that first email at the bottom again is from Boris Nikolic to Bill Gates, care of Larry Kon. Subject Jeffrey. Thank you. The message is on the back side of the page that was passed out. It says, bill, yesterday was a very difficult for both of us. It would be great if you could write Jeffrey a thank you note as he flew out here to try to help. And I think he did. I thanked him with my deepest gratitude. I know he saved me. I think he saved us both. Signed, Boris. So given your description of what happened, what do you make of that? This Mr. Epstein save you and Dr. Nikolic in some way. Answer, he did not. Question, what do you think Boris meant by this? Answer, I don't know. I think at some point Boris realized that introducing Epstein was a mistake. But, you know, he had asked me, when Epstein did get involved, to send an email to Epstein, which I did. And here then he asked me to send an email to him thanking him, which I went ahead and did. Spectre question again, Dr. Nikolage says he flew out here to help, and I think he did. And your testimony today has sort of been opposite. Is that Jeffrey Epstein's involvement in these negotiations were useless and accomplished nothing. Answer, yeah, it's completely provable because the offer to Boris is the same. What he ends up with is the same. So, you know, that's just black and white facts. Yeah. What did you give him under the table? How about that? Question. Question. The next email. So the middle email on the first page, you respond to Dr. Nikolic with Larry Cohen. Again, you say, I agree Jeffrey was quite helpful and he put a lot of time in. Without him, it would have been a lot harder. I will send him a thank you. So it seems like you're saying something a little different in this email than you're saying right now. Is that fair? Answer. I would. I was willing to go along with the narrative that Jeffrey had been helpful. I wanted to get the thing closed. You know, I had decided that Dr. Nikolid should leave my employee. He wanted to say that we made progress. I knew that the offer on the table, I wanted Dr. Nikolich to accept that. So I don't feel these comments were made in sincerity, but in the furtherance of, hey, this is Boris's mindset now. He feels good. I think you should bring forward the other email that we referred to because that would be. And give very helpful context. So you said, though you did ultimately send Mr. Epstein a thank you, as I was asked to do. Yes. I'm trying not to flood you with more paper here, so I'll just ask about it generally. Do you recall what you. What the nature of the thank you was? I said thank you, I mean Boris, both at the start of Epstein's involvement and at the end. He asked me to send an email, which may have actually been my very first email to Mr. Epstein was the initiation of his involvement in Dr. Nikolic's exit question. Is this the thank you email that you sent to Mr. Epstein? You make reference to structuring the payment as a gift, and you're discussing how you paid gifts taxes on it. Is it your recollection that the severance payment to Dr. Nikolic was structured as a gift? Answer. No. You're confusing something that's absolutely separate. Okay. No connection with Dr. Nikolic's exit. At the time that Dr. Nikolic came to work at the Gates foundation, he had some ongoing consulting agreements. So this is five years, six years earlier. And I made it the time so that Boris could walk away from those things without a net loss. I made a half a million dollar gift to Dr. Nikolic. But that's like five years earlier, before, certainly before I met Epstein and I believe before Dr. Nikolic had met Epstein. The reason that that came up in the exit discussion was Epstein, having apparently heard about that payment from six years ago, tried to insert some doubt about how the taxes hadn't been paid on that. And this was not the only time. But this is where he tried to insert himself as, hey, I could give you tax advice. Why don't you send me the documents and you know, you probably should show me the email because I was very black and white and that I'm the most careful about paying taxes of anyone I know. I have great professionals. I wasn't going to send him any tax documents that was structured as a gift. I paid a gift tax. And so we're talking about a half million. That's nothing to do with the exit agreement at all. Question. Okay, that's helpful context. And for the record, that is what you say at the end of the email. You say, I will bet I am more careful about gift taxes than almost any other taxpayer. Yeah, I believe that in my 14 billion of tax payments, I probably paid more gift taxes than others. Question. More than me. Moran. And I'll just note that the same email ending in Bates number 053 that we referenced earlier contains some of the same exchange about the tax treatment issue as well. Spectre asking questions now, Mr. Gates, I want to talk a little bit about. I know we've talked about it and I'll try to be brief and not go back over to many of the same things. But the three extramarital affairs that we've now discussed in today's interview, for the first one, also Mila Antonova, if that's all right with you, I can refer to her as the bridge player or I can call her Ms. Antonova. Answer. That's fine. Question. I think you said earlier, but do you recall when you first met her? Answer. At a bridge tournament. Question. And where was the bridge tournament? I'm not sure. And it was prior to meeting Jeffrey Epstein Yes. Do you recall when you learned that Ms. Antonova had some sort of interaction with Mr. Epstein? It would have been when he sent me mail suggesting that he had reimbursed her or paid for something in connection in relationship to her? Question and this was years, a couple years after you cease communication with Mr. Epstein, is that correct? Answer no, it's right at the end or soon after the end? No, I think it's right after the end that he sends an email. Most of the email he sent me were after I never talked to him again because he made many attempts to re engage. But he sent me mail about those reimbursements and then I went to Larry Cohen who communicated that I didn't feel it was appropriate or I was under any obligation to reimburse him for what he may have done. Did anyone else, who else may have known about your affair, about this affair? Answer I don't know who? Question Boris Nikolic, Jeffrey Epstein? Eventually you told your wife. Did anyone else during that period, intervening period know about it as far as you know? Answer not that I'm aware of. Maybe a therapist, but I guess I can exclude my discussions with therapists. Question and then the same sort of questions for Ms. Nig Matalina, the nuclear physicist, as we discussed earlier. I think you've talked about this publicly. You said that you met her through business activities. Is that right? Answer that is right. Question what sort of business activities? Answer she worked on both disease modeling and nuclear fission work and I met her in connection with that. Question Work that the Gates foundation was involved or overlap with her work. Answer no, it's not Gate Foundation's work. It was work that it was either TerraPower work or work that I funded not connected to the foundation. Question for the record, what is TerraPower? Answer it's nuclear fission. Fourth generation nuclear fission company. Question that you fund. Answer I'm a substantial investor in TerraPower. Question Did Ms. Nig Matolina work directly for TerraPower at all? Answer yes. I'm a little confused about when she worked on the disease modeling project and when she did some work at 4 Tera Power. I think they may have even overlapped. But after she finished both of those pieces of work is when our affair started. Question and do you recall approximately the year that the affair started? I mean, I can find out. Was it prior to you meeting Jeffrey Epstein? No. I should look the time I became aware he knew about that affair. Look. Was when Epstein files were released this year. Question that's when you found out that Mr. Epstein was aware of this affair is what you're saying. Answer Right. In those emails to himself, among the true and false things that he stuck in there, in one of those emails, he mentions her name. Question but for the record, the way that you met her through the business activities, it had nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein in any way? Answer Nothing. Not in any way. Question and you did you ever have a conversation with Ms. Nig Malina about Jeffrey Epstein? Answer Never. Question and then the same sort of questions for Dr. Jacobs. You may have said, and I'm sorry, but can you remind me what year approximately your affair with her began? Answer before 2010. Question so prior to you ever meeting Jeffrey Epstein? Answer that's right. Question and so you had no awareness of any relationship or any relationship between her and Mr. Epstein? Answer that's right. Question and you have any awareness of a relationship with Mr. Epstein as you sit here today? Answer I do not. Question I'll ask the Same questions for Ms. Antonova sitting here today. Do you have any additional context or awareness of her interactions with Mr. Epstein besides what we've talked about? Answer well, I read in the press several years ago that she commented that she and Mr. Epstein and that he had paid some expenses that she wasn't aware of was something that he was communicating. Back to me. Question so the only additional awareness you have about her interactions with Mr. Epstein are through public reporting? Answer well, he sends me emails, you know, after I stopped meeting with him, there's a bunch of emails where he's referring to her, even one time purporting that I had asked him to do these things, which is false. But there's a number of emails from him relating to the woman we're calling the Bridge Player. Answer or question and I'll ask the same question for Ms. Nigma Talina. Do you have any other knowledge today about her interactions with or communications with Jeffrey Epstein? Answer I'd be stunned if there were ever many. So no, I don't. Question Other than that, you know that he was aware of your affair? Answer that's right. But that's not communication to her. All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here and in the next episode, we're going to pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.