The Captain Of Security Operations At MCC And His OIG Deposition (Part 6) (5/31/26) - The Epstein Chronicles

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[00:00]
A
What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to get back to the testimony given by the securities captain to the OIG investigators. Question. And do you remember. So you recall specifically talking with them? Do you? And this is. I want to know aside from what they should have known. Specific conversations with redacted Answer. I can't remember about redacted. I believe it's internal. I came into the lieutenant's office and we spoke about it. So as a collective, the lieutenants were made aware. I can't say I remember that I would come into the lieutenants and we would talk about Epstein. So again, between the guidance that was put out through emails and the conversations that I would have had just encountering lieutenants. Yeah. But however, I can tell you for sure, I had a conversation with question and would have redacted. Made sure that those people working in the SHU knew this information. Answer. He would have as lieutenant in charge. Yes. Question should have. He made sure somebody like somebody that's not in there. Although toven O. Well, I think that was her quarterly post or at least she was in there a lot of times leading up to it. So should have he made sure that she. He gets cut off by the guard. Yeah. Because he worked evening watch. Michael Thomas. Probably not. But by him working in the unit, he would know. I mean, you would say, okay, if he's working on evening watch or morning watch. There was no need to move inmates. There were no showers that were taking place. There were no hearings, no medical, nothing that we had to open up a cell door for those inmates. Okay. So most of those inmates was done on day watch. The was no reason for them to move these guys. Question. Okay. Answer. You understand what I'm saying? Question. Sure. And then as far as the conversations with redacted. Answer Was one of the lieutenants as far as again, speaking to as lieutenants as a forum, you know, hey, gotta make sure that you guys are doing it, you know, like that. But I know for a fact the only person that I spoke to that I pulled in my office was shu. OIC was the shoe lieutenant because they're in charge of the unit. So I disseminate the information and the guidance out to him, and he's supposed to take that guidance and push it forward. Question for the unit. So he's in charge of the unit. You went to the guy in charge of the unit and said, hey, you're in charge of the unit. Make sure he's got a cellmate at all times answer yes. Question. And he then is supposed to take that. And anybody that works within his unit should know. Yeah. Okay. What about these lieutenants, though, especially the ones that are acting as like ops lieutenants and activities lieutenants, people like redacted. Durant, I think. Redacted, Redacted. Should have they known during these shifts, specifically on the 9th and 10th, should have they known that Epstein was required to have a cellmate? Answer. I believe so. Question. Okay, but like, again, I would have to go back through my emails, you know, because a lot of the communication that me and the lieutenants had were through email, because you can't catch them all in one shift, you know, catch them passing and coming. So I would put out guidance that way. Question. But as far as you said that everyone knew he had an orange card, that he had high visibility inmate and therefore he was required to have a cellmate. So should have they had known through that. Yeah. Question. And is there any excuse for any of them to say I didn't know? I'm not going to put that on the lieutenant. You know, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to be the guy to say whatever, whatever. Because I'm going to tell you what, sir, to be real with you, it was so much going on through that time frame that I don't want to put my statement to something like that that could detrimentally harm one of these lieutenants. I'm not going to say that I talked to on this day. I'm just not going to do that. Question. I'm not saying about speaking. I'm saying just the fact that there was an. And again, you're saying that you don't recall specific conversations about the cellmate requirements, aside from redacted. But the fact that if there was an orange card, is that something that just is common knowledge? If someone has an orange card, a lieutenant should know that he's got an orange card. He needs a cellmate. Answer. Right. But again, also, it was high visibility guys. What do you call that? 10 south, the one inmate answer that one occupancy. So with the guidance I had put out, I got to give you that email question. Okay, answer. That email was saying that, hey, these guys with the orange cards, you need to ensure high visibility vigilance. Question. So, all right, so he gets cut off by the guard. Ensure that these guys, you know, are alive and, and all of this, you know, report any, you know, I went into detail with all of that question. Okay, so maybe not. If it's an Orange card. It doesn't necessarily mean then that they require a cellmate. They just require. Answer. Higher or higher supervision. Question. Okay, so you just need to know what they're doing at all times and make sure that they're okay. Answer. Yeah. Question. All right, so in this instance, it, it wouldn't be necessarily cellmate, it would be everybody knows to keep an eye on Epstein, make sure that he's all right. So is the only one that you can specifically recall. And again what you said. Question. Yeah, and then again when I went on evening shift, morning watch, those shifts, when I had those teams together, yeah. I would talk about vigilance after doing 30 minute rounds, make sure this is done. Making sure that is done. Making sure this guy, you know, that's what I did because that's what Mr. Redacted wanted. So I did it. Question. Alright. And then again, just to make sure that I'm not misunderstanding you, you said you talked to Redacted specifically about it, but when you did visit the shu, not only were you telling them to keep high visibility on Epstein, were you also telling them, the people that you did interact with, that he needed to have a cellmate? Yes. Question. Question. Okay, on Friday, August 9, or sorry, when's the last time you can recall that you had a conversation with SHU staff? Answer. I can't remember, sir. I don't remember because like I said, that guidance came out between the time of him being upon his release from suicide watch from the last time. So that time, during the time that we was doing the vetting for the cellmate. So it was, you know, it was a short period of time that this guidance and these conversations took place. And then the reinforcement was when we would walk through the unit and just do rounds. And then I'm like, hey, this is high visibility guy. Why's this guy got trays in his cell? Extra trays in his cell. Why is this guy got this? So then of course, you know, a lot of people at mcc, they didn't like me because I was trying to hold people accountable. But I didn't always write people up. That's how I did. I came up like that. I'm trying to help you. People thought me trying to just talk to them about correctional service or trying giving them little, you know, helping them out, talking to them, you know, that I was trying to be the know all, be all, be that guy, you know, you know, you're not sociable, but now you're down here telling us what to do. You're not one of those that's the way it felt like. So like again, I can give you the playbook to success but if you don't read it, it's just words. It's just words. And then I had a lot of issues with the lieutenants, you know, lieutenants, you know, were self serving. Even though in my previous statement I would never say anything statements to hurt them, I'm not doing that. But what I will tell you was the relationship between me and the lieutenant corps was not good. So again, as we move forward through today, you know, the statements that I make is not to try to put blame or try to hurt anybody. The only thing I'm doing is telling you that when the warden gave me direction, he said he wanted X, Y and Z and X, Y and Z. Not only did I talk to staff, I also reinforced it by putting out emails because I know I can't catch everybody and I know that staff is going to blow you off. I mean like yeah, whatever. I'm glad he's out the unit. Let's go ahead and go back to whatever we was doing. It is what it is. Question sure. And just so you know, just to give you a little bit of peace of mind, we're asking you the questions directly. You're not placing blame on anybody. So if we ask you if they were responsible for something that's not on you. Answer. Oh, okay. Well I just wanted to because I didn't understand that Question yeah, yeah. Answer because like I said, I'm not here. I mean he gets cut off by the go by the investigator. I mean we might say who's responsible or did they drop the ball. But that's just asking you a direct question, not you coming to us saying it was this guy's fault. You know, we're specifically asking you so just, you know. Answer. That's what I didn't understand and that's not what I mean. I'm not here for that. I'm just here he gets cut off by the investigator. I mean we do have to figure out who did drop the ball here. Answer yeah. Question but that's not you're not coming to us, we're coming to you. Answer Right, I understand. Question so on Friday August 9, 2019, Lieutenant redacted was on leave and thus there was no dedicated lieutenant assigned to the shoe. That is correct. Question in this event, the operations lieutenant lieutenant had oversight that day and took over the responsibilities of the SHU lieutenant. So what time did you, can you look that? On August 9, what time that he worked on. Answer the Periods that this is Friday, right? Question. Correct. August 9th. Answer. I got. So basically I have redacted. Was not there. He was there on that Saturday, which was evening watch on that Saturday. Question. But he did not work 4pm to midnight. He worked 4pm to midnight on that Saturday, the August 10th. Okay, so you can speak. Do you know something different? No, no, I was just clarifying. Oops, sorry. Can I see the August 9th. So who was working on August 9th? Well, it appears. I think you got redacted. All right. So redacted would have been the ops lieutenant answer right. Question. Well, redacted and then underneath them, the activities lieutenant would have been Durant and then redacted. Answer right Question Correct. All right. All right. So they must have got this wrong somehow. So it said. So this is not accurate when it says that in this report, in this event, the operations lieutenant Lieutenant redacted had oversight that day and took responsibility for the shoe. Who actually had oversight since redacted was out? Answer. That would have been the day watch operations lieutenant Question. And who was that? Answer. The day watch operations lieutenant for August 9th would have been. It appears it was redacted. Question. So redacted would have been responsible. Answer. Right Question. And is it your understanding that redacted knew that he needed a cellmate? Answer. I believe so. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.

Summary4 min read

The Epstein Chronicles

Episode: The Captain Of Security Operations At MCC And His OIG Deposition (Part 6)
Host: Bobby Capucci
Date: May 31, 2026

Overview

In this part of the series, host Bobby Capucci continues to examine the testimony of the Captain of Security Operations at the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC) as given in a deposition to the Office of the Inspector General (OIG). The discussion focuses on how information regarding Jeffrey Epstein’s housing—particularly the requirement for a cellmate and “high visibility” status—was communicated within MCC staff, and explores the breakdowns, ambiguities, and lines of responsibility underlying the events leading up to Epstein’s death.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Communication of Cellmate and “High Visibility” Requirements

The Captain describes both formal (emails/guidance) and informal (face-to-face) interactions with lieutenants and staff about Epstein’s unique needs:
- Emails were heavily relied upon due to shifts and schedule gaps among staff (see [02:49]).
- It was expected that the SHU OIC (Special Housing Unit Officer In Charge) would take direction from the Captain and disseminate it to the unit ([04:30]).
There was ambiguity over whether the orange card (high visibility) status automatically meant Epstein needed a cellmate or simply closer supervision ([10:05]).

Quote:

“I disseminate the information and the guidance out to [the SHU lieutenant], and he’s supposed to take that guidance and push it forward.” — Captain ([04:43])

Quote:

“If someone has an orange card, a lieutenant should know that he’s got an orange card; he needs a cellmate.” — OIG Investigator ([09:28])

2. Specificity and Accountability

The Captain is wary of placing blame on specific lieutenants due to the high volume and stress at the time:
- He declines to assign fault to any individual, noting:
  
  “I don’t want to put my statement to something like that that could detrimentally harm one of these lieutenants.” ([11:20])
Not all staff saw eye-to-eye with the Captain’s approach, and there were noted tensions with lieutenants:
- The Captain admits that many in the MCC saw him as “trying to be the know all, be all” and resented his attempts at enforcing accountability ([15:51]).
- “People thought me trying to just talk to them about correctional service or… helping them out… that I was trying to be the know all, be all.” ([16:31])

3. Details Around August 9-10, 2019, The Days Leading Up to Epstein’s Death

Confusion about shift assignments: Lieutenants on leave led to other staff covering SHU responsibilities, notably around the crucial dates just before Epstein’s death ([23:09]-[27:15]).
The Captain confirms:
- On August 9, the assigned SHU lieutenant was on leave; the operations lieutenant would have oversight.
- He believes those on duty knew of Epstein’s cellmate requirement, though cannot confirm specific conversations ([28:35]).

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

On the communication chain:

“I can give you the playbook to success but if you don’t read it, it’s just words. And then I had a lot of issues with the lieutenants, you know, lieutenants, you know, were self serving.” — Captain ([17:05])
On responsibility:

“When the warden gave me direction, he said he wanted X, Y, and Z, and X, Y, and Z. Not only did I talk to staff, I also reinforced it by putting out emails because I know I can’t catch everybody and … staff is going to blow you off.” — Captain ([18:00])
On the OIG’s approach:

“We’re asking you the questions directly. You’re not placing blame on anybody… So if we ask you if they were responsible for something that’s not on you.” — OIG Investigator ([20:40]) “That’s what I didn’t understand and that’s not what I mean. I’m not here for that. I’m just here…” — Captain ([21:34])

Timestamps for Key Segments

[00:40] – Communication about SHU staff awareness
[04:30] – Chain of command for SHU requirements
[10:05] – High visibility status vs. cellmate requirement
[15:51] – Tension with lieutenants and MCC staff culture
[23:09] – Lieutenant shift assignments and responsibilities on August 9-10, 2019
[28:35] – Confirmation of who had oversight and their understanding of requirements

Tone & Language

The conversation is candid, with the Captain expressing both frustration and caution. He’s determined not to unfairly implicate colleagues, while emphasizing repeated efforts to communicate vital directives. The OIG investigators are persistent but clarify that their queries seek facts, not scapegoating.

Final Thoughts

This episode delves deeply into the problems of accountability, communication gaps, and unclear expectations that may have contributed to critical lapses surrounding Epstein’s custody. The Captain’s deposition paints a picture of a disjointed work culture, overreliance on indirect communication, and institutional reluctance to fully address responsibility.

Next episode: The conversation will continue with more details from the deposition, further exploring oversight lapses and command structure in the vital days leading up to Epstein’s death.

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Transcript1 lines

[00:00]
A
What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to get back to the testimony given by the securities captain to the OIG investigators. Question. And do you remember. So you recall specifically talking with them? Do you? And this is. I want to know aside from what they should have known. Specific conversations with redacted Answer. I can't remember about redacted. I believe it's internal. I came into the lieutenant's office and we spoke about it. So as a collective, the lieutenants were made aware. I can't say I remember that I would come into the lieutenants and we would talk about Epstein. So again, between the guidance that was put out through emails and the conversations that I would have had just encountering lieutenants. Yeah. But however, I can tell you for sure, I had a conversation with question and would have redacted. Made sure that those people working in the SHU knew this information. Answer. He would have as lieutenant in charge. Yes. Question should have. He made sure somebody like somebody that's not in there. Although toven O. Well, I think that was her quarterly post or at least she was in there a lot of times leading up to it. So should have he made sure that she. He gets cut off by the guard. Yeah. Because he worked evening watch. Michael Thomas. Probably not. But by him working in the unit, he would know. I mean, you would say, okay, if he's working on evening watch or morning watch. There was no need to move inmates. There were no showers that were taking place. There were no hearings, no medical, nothing that we had to open up a cell door for those inmates. Okay. So most of those inmates was done on day watch. The was no reason for them to move these guys. Question. Okay. Answer. You understand what I'm saying? Question. Sure. And then as far as the conversations with redacted. Answer Was one of the lieutenants as far as again, speaking to as lieutenants as a forum, you know, hey, gotta make sure that you guys are doing it, you know, like that. But I know for a fact the only person that I spoke to that I pulled in my office was shu. OIC was the shoe lieutenant because they're in charge of the unit. So I disseminate the information and the guidance out to him, and he's supposed to take that guidance and push it forward. Question for the unit. So he's in charge of the unit. You went to the guy in charge of the unit and said, hey, you're in charge of the unit. Make sure he's got a cellmate at all times answer yes. Question. And he then is supposed to take that. And anybody that works within his unit should know. Yeah. Okay. What about these lieutenants, though, especially the ones that are acting as like ops lieutenants and activities lieutenants, people like redacted. Durant, I think. Redacted, Redacted. Should have they known during these shifts, specifically on the 9th and 10th, should have they known that Epstein was required to have a cellmate? Answer. I believe so. Question. Okay, but like, again, I would have to go back through my emails, you know, because a lot of the communication that me and the lieutenants had were through email, because you can't catch them all in one shift, you know, catch them passing and coming. So I would put out guidance that way. Question. But as far as you said that everyone knew he had an orange card, that he had high visibility inmate and therefore he was required to have a cellmate. So should have they had known through that. Yeah. Question. And is there any excuse for any of them to say I didn't know? I'm not going to put that on the lieutenant. You know, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to be the guy to say whatever, whatever. Because I'm going to tell you what, sir, to be real with you, it was so much going on through that time frame that I don't want to put my statement to something like that that could detrimentally harm one of these lieutenants. I'm not going to say that I talked to on this day. I'm just not going to do that. Question. I'm not saying about speaking. I'm saying just the fact that there was an. And again, you're saying that you don't recall specific conversations about the cellmate requirements, aside from redacted. But the fact that if there was an orange card, is that something that just is common knowledge? If someone has an orange card, a lieutenant should know that he's got an orange card. He needs a cellmate. Answer. Right. But again, also, it was high visibility guys. What do you call that? 10 south, the one inmate answer that one occupancy. So with the guidance I had put out, I got to give you that email question. Okay, answer. That email was saying that, hey, these guys with the orange cards, you need to ensure high visibility vigilance. Question. So, all right, so he gets cut off by the guard. Ensure that these guys, you know, are alive and, and all of this, you know, report any, you know, I went into detail with all of that question. Okay, so maybe not. If it's an Orange card. It doesn't necessarily mean then that they require a cellmate. They just require. Answer. Higher or higher supervision. Question. Okay, so you just need to know what they're doing at all times and make sure that they're okay. Answer. Yeah. Question. All right, so in this instance, it, it wouldn't be necessarily cellmate, it would be everybody knows to keep an eye on Epstein, make sure that he's all right. So is the only one that you can specifically recall. And again what you said. Question. Yeah, and then again when I went on evening shift, morning watch, those shifts, when I had those teams together, yeah. I would talk about vigilance after doing 30 minute rounds, make sure this is done. Making sure that is done. Making sure this guy, you know, that's what I did because that's what Mr. Redacted wanted. So I did it. Question. Alright. And then again, just to make sure that I'm not misunderstanding you, you said you talked to Redacted specifically about it, but when you did visit the shu, not only were you telling them to keep high visibility on Epstein, were you also telling them, the people that you did interact with, that he needed to have a cellmate? Yes. Question. Question. Okay, on Friday, August 9, or sorry, when's the last time you can recall that you had a conversation with SHU staff? Answer. I can't remember, sir. I don't remember because like I said, that guidance came out between the time of him being upon his release from suicide watch from the last time. So that time, during the time that we was doing the vetting for the cellmate. So it was, you know, it was a short period of time that this guidance and these conversations took place. And then the reinforcement was when we would walk through the unit and just do rounds. And then I'm like, hey, this is high visibility guy. Why's this guy got trays in his cell? Extra trays in his cell. Why is this guy got this? So then of course, you know, a lot of people at mcc, they didn't like me because I was trying to hold people accountable. But I didn't always write people up. That's how I did. I came up like that. I'm trying to help you. People thought me trying to just talk to them about correctional service or trying giving them little, you know, helping them out, talking to them, you know, that I was trying to be the know all, be all, be that guy, you know, you know, you're not sociable, but now you're down here telling us what to do. You're not one of those that's the way it felt like. So like again, I can give you the playbook to success but if you don't read it, it's just words. It's just words. And then I had a lot of issues with the lieutenants, you know, lieutenants, you know, were self serving. Even though in my previous statement I would never say anything statements to hurt them, I'm not doing that. But what I will tell you was the relationship between me and the lieutenant corps was not good. So again, as we move forward through today, you know, the statements that I make is not to try to put blame or try to hurt anybody. The only thing I'm doing is telling you that when the warden gave me direction, he said he wanted X, Y and Z and X, Y and Z. Not only did I talk to staff, I also reinforced it by putting out emails because I know I can't catch everybody and I know that staff is going to blow you off. I mean like yeah, whatever. I'm glad he's out the unit. Let's go ahead and go back to whatever we was doing. It is what it is. Question sure. And just so you know, just to give you a little bit of peace of mind, we're asking you the questions directly. You're not placing blame on anybody. So if we ask you if they were responsible for something that's not on you. Answer. Oh, okay. Well I just wanted to because I didn't understand that Question yeah, yeah. Answer because like I said, I'm not here. I mean he gets cut off by the go by the investigator. I mean we might say who's responsible or did they drop the ball. But that's just asking you a direct question, not you coming to us saying it was this guy's fault. You know, we're specifically asking you so just, you know. Answer. That's what I didn't understand and that's not what I mean. I'm not here for that. I'm just here he gets cut off by the investigator. I mean we do have to figure out who did drop the ball here. Answer yeah. Question but that's not you're not coming to us, we're coming to you. Answer Right, I understand. Question so on Friday August 9, 2019, Lieutenant redacted was on leave and thus there was no dedicated lieutenant assigned to the shoe. That is correct. Question in this event, the operations lieutenant lieutenant had oversight that day and took over the responsibilities of the SHU lieutenant. So what time did you, can you look that? On August 9, what time that he worked on. Answer the Periods that this is Friday, right? Question. Correct. August 9th. Answer. I got. So basically I have redacted. Was not there. He was there on that Saturday, which was evening watch on that Saturday. Question. But he did not work 4pm to midnight. He worked 4pm to midnight on that Saturday, the August 10th. Okay, so you can speak. Do you know something different? No, no, I was just clarifying. Oops, sorry. Can I see the August 9th. So who was working on August 9th? Well, it appears. I think you got redacted. All right. So redacted would have been the ops lieutenant answer right. Question. Well, redacted and then underneath them, the activities lieutenant would have been Durant and then redacted. Answer right Question Correct. All right. All right. So they must have got this wrong somehow. So it said. So this is not accurate when it says that in this report, in this event, the operations lieutenant Lieutenant redacted had oversight that day and took responsibility for the shoe. Who actually had oversight since redacted was out? Answer. That would have been the day watch operations lieutenant Question. And who was that? Answer. The day watch operations lieutenant for August 9th would have been. It appears it was redacted. Question. So redacted would have been responsible. Answer. Right Question. And is it your understanding that redacted knew that he needed a cellmate? Answer. I believe so. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.