Tova Noel And The Transcript From Her Congressional Testimony (Part 6) (6/20/26)

Summary

The Epstein Chronicles

Episode: Tova Noel And The Transcript From Her Congressional Testimony (Part 6)

Host: Bobby Capucci
Date: June 21, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, host Bobby Capucci continues his in-depth analysis of Tova Noel’s congressional testimony regarding her role as a correctional officer during Jeffrey Epstein’s detention and death at the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC). This is Part 6 of the series, where the focus is specifically on Noel’s first-hand account of procedure, staffing, inmate monitoring (particularly relating to Epstein), and her understanding of events leading up to and during August 9th and 10th, 2019.

Capucci provides both detailed recaps and verbatim transcript segments, illuminating the inner workings of the MCC and addressing lingering questions about Epstein’s supervision, conditions, and decision-making processes around protocols like suicide watch and psychological observation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Staffing & Chain of Command During Key Shifts

• Correctional Officer Assignments (00:30)
  • On August 9th, 2019: Tova Noel, Bonhomme, and David worked.
  • On August 10th, 2019: Tova Noel and Michael Thomas worked. It was Noel’s first time working with Thomas.
  • All three co-workers (Bonhomme, David, Thomas) had more seniority than Noel but shared equal authority as correctional officers, except Thomas, who was a materials handler.
• Reporting Structure
  • “We're all correctional officers. The only one that would have had a different title would have been Michael Thomas as a materials handler.” (Noel, 00:45)
  • The shift supervisors were Lt. Kannada (4pm to midnight) and Lt. Anderson (midnight to 8am).

2. Procedures: Counts and Rounds in the SHU (Special Housing Unit)

• Count Procedures
  • Counts are performed by two guards who visually confirm every inmate is present and alive without opening cell doors.
  • “Visually confirming that an inmate is alive and breathing? Correct.” (Noel, 01:40)
  • Count discrepancies require recounts, and if unresolved, contact with the control center (“Control”).
• Rounds
  • The purpose is to ensure inmate wellbeing, typically one guard signs off per round.
  • “I would think that the round slip signaled like, yes, I made the round at this time.” (Noel, 03:48)
  • Less formal than a count but still intended to confirm inmates are alive and accounted for.

3. Other Typical Duties During a Shift

• Inmate Care Tasks
  • Dinner is served during the 4pm-midnight shift, along with distributing toiletries as requested.
  • “If they ask for it, we give it to them...whenever people say, hey, I need some toilet paper. Correct.” (Noel, 05:04)
• Orderly Activities
  • Cleaning and occasional use of a small library are allowed by orderlies, but the SHU largely remains on lockdown.

4. Epstein’s Arrival, Placement, and Timeline

• Initial Placement
  • Confusion about whether Epstein was held initially in general population or placed directly in the SHU due to his high-profile status.
  • “He was brought to the SHU [Special Housing Unit] because he was high profile in nature.” (Noel, 06:10)
• Harassment and Payments
  • Noel never witnessed Epstein being harassed by inmates or paying for protection or commissary transfers.

5. Suicide Watch and Psychological Observation

• Suicide Watch Protocols
  • After an alleged suicide attempt (July 23), Epstein was on suicide watch for about 24 hours.
  • Process explained: “You're downstairs in a holding cell with no garments, no shoestring. It's like a Velcro smock.” (Noel, 11:45)
  • Constant monitoring is performed by a designated inmate (“Has to be eyes...on the person all the time. By another inmate.” (Noel, 10:43)), not by a co-housed cellmate nor always observed by staff.
• Confusion About Psychological Observation
  • Noel is unclear about details—location, requirements, or cellmate status during this period—but confirms Epstein was moved after July 30th to a new cell, no longer with Nicholas Tartaglione.
  • “I don't know [about psychological observation].” (Noel, 12:45)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Correctional Practice:
  “Visually confirming that an inmate is alive and breathing? Correct.” (Noel, 01:40)
• On Understaffing:
  “Is that because you guys were under manned, short staffed? Correct.” (Noel, 01:23)
• On Procedures:
  “Never open a cell door during counts. Never.” (Noel, 01:33)
• Suicide Watch Details:
  “You're downstairs in a holding cell with no garments, no shoestring. It's like a Velcro smock.” (Noel, 11:45)
• Inmate Observer:
  “The actual inmate has to be eyes...on the person all the time. By another inmate.” (Noel, 10:43)
• Uncertainty About Process:
  “I don't know [about psychological observation].” (Noel, 12:45)

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Timeline & Timestamps of Crucial Segments

• 00:30 – Shift assignments and co-worker breakdowns
• 01:15 – 02:15 – Overview of count and round procedures
• 05:00 – Details of other shift duties (feeding, toilet paper, orderlies)
• 06:00 – Discussion of Epstein’s initial placement and rationale
• 09:00 – Introduction and explanation of suicide watch and psychological observation
• 10:43 – 12:45 – Noel’s first-hand explanation of suicide watch, psychological observation, and gaps in her knowledge
• 13:45 – Host signals end of episode and teases continuation in the next part

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Tone and Style

The tone is methodical, matter-of-fact, and focused on factual clarifications. Noel’s answers often emphasize procedure and her limited scope of knowledge, while the congressional questioners probe for specifics and inconsistencies.

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Summary

This episode offers a granular look at prison life, procedural adherence, and the reality of chronic understaffing inside MCC at the time of Epstein’s incarceration. It underscores the gaps in knowledge and communication among staff, the minimal training and briefings given to front-line officers, and persistent ambiguity surrounding the high-profile suicide in federal custody. Tova Noel’s testimony frames a context of confusion, limited resources, and adherence to established procedure (when possible) while leaving open critical questions about oversight and accountability as the congressional investigation continues.

Transcript

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[Interviewer]

What's up everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with the Tova Noel interview with Congress question. You touched on it previously, but here all in one place. For your two shifts in the shoe on August 9th and 10th, who are your co workers for each shift? So on August 9th it was myself, Bonhomme and David. On August 10th it was myself and Thomas. And I think you had said that was your first time working with Thomas, is that right? Correct. How about for Bonhomme and David? I work with Davis. Yes. So for I worked with Davis before and I worked across from Bonhomme before. Question and for all three of those colleagues, what was the chain of command if there was one between you, did you report to any of those individuals? No, we're all correctional officers. The only one that would have had a different title would have been Michael Thomas as a materials handler. Were all of them or any of them senior to you? Senior as they've been there longer than me? Yes. Is that a case for all three of them? All of them? Correct. Question when that was the case, would it typically be that I know you would not report to them, but would they sort of practically or informally be in charge, so to speak? Answer. Correct. Question and so who are the lieutenants or supervisors for each of those shifts? Answer. So on the 4th to midnight, Kannada called to mandate me. So it was Kannada. And then on the midnight to 8 in the morning it was. Lieutenant Anderson, was this your first ever overnight shift at the SHU? Correct. Do you recall who was working in 10 south for those two shifts? Four of the four to midnight don't recall. Midnight to eight it was Adams. Would it usually be just one guard or one CO in 10 South? Yes. It's supposed to be two, but it's one. Is that because you guys were under manned, short staffed? Correct. Like to get a little bit more background on counts and rounds. I'll just start with counts, which I know you did discuss a little Bit. Is it right that the basic purpose of a count is to count the number of folks in the unit? Correct. Okay. And the process for a count, I think, as you described it involves two guards, is that right? Correct. One stands at the grill of the tear and the other goes downrange. Answer Correct. And is counting inmates, would that typically be as they see them through the cell window? Correct. Okay. Would that ever involve opening a cell door or never? Never. Would the count typically involve visually confirming that an inmate is alive and breathing? Correct. Question and in terms of paperwork, writing the countdown, what would be that process? Answer. On the count slip, it will be the number that you counted. And remember, it's two people counting. So it's like two people saying, yes, we both agree to this count. So it will be two signatures on the bottom of the count slip and it will have the unit, the name of the unit on there. Question. So would one guard usually go downrange count and then you switch and the other guard goes and does the same thing? Answer. Correct. Question and would you normally know what number you're supposed to get or is it just a matter of counting what you see? Question I don't know if it's ever happened in your case or if anybody ever mentioned, but if there was a mismatch in the numbers, you're not seeing the number that you thought you would see, what would typically happen at that point? Answer is if there was a mismatch recount to make sure that you counted accurately. If there's still a mismatch, then Control. Call Control. Question who or what is control just for us. Answer. Okay, so control is downstairs on the first floor. And these are the people that you report to count to because you have to call the count in Control also, like when you come into the building, that's who you show your ID to. So it's like a control center. The officer is downstairs in control. Question in terms of the count process that you just described, when you would either participate in it or see it happen, did it look different from what you just talked about, or would it typically match your description of the process? It would typically match the description of the process. And you did describe this also. But another thing that would happen during each shift would, would be rounds, Is that right? Correct. Question and what's the purpose of a round? The purpose of a round is to make sure that the inmates are okay. And there are round logs, I think you said. Is that right? Yes. Correct. And this is a one guard job or always two guards. So it will be Two, because you need one person to open the grill and one person to go down, but you're not verifying, like how you would do with. With the count question. Got it. And is the round log I heard you talk about there need to be one, I think two signatures. Is that right? Answer. So no, it doesn't. The two signatures for the count slip, the round log, it's one. So if I made a round at 10 and I logged it and I put my signature and I go down to the bottom tier, you can make the other round, or I can make all the rounds, and then the next time you can make it. So rounds are not specific to a person. And what is. You sign and you submit the round log. Is it trying to say, Is it obviously saying, yes, I did this round. Is it saying, and nothing bad happened or everybody was fine? What's being signaled by the round slip? I would think that the round slip signaled like, yes, I made the round. At this time, does it involve the same amount of making sure every inmate is breathing, or is it something less than that? Yeah, every inmate's breathing. So is it essentially the same as count, except you're not going through. Correct. You're not counting. Got it. In terms of other required activities during a shift, what would those be? I think you mentioned feeding inmates dinner. Answer. Correct question. And that would be specific to the 4pm to midnight shift, right? Correct Question. Question. Okay, anything else? Such as toiletries or anything else? Answer. Yeah, toilet paper. If you're giving out toilet paper. Question. Is the toilet paper or toiletries, is that a thing that happens at a specific time for everybody, or is it just as people ask for it? Answer. I'm not sure. If they ask for it, we give it to them. But I don't know if it's supposed to happen at a different time. Question. But in your experience, it was kind of whenever people say, hey, I. I need some toilet paper. Correct question. Okay, anything else? That would typically happen on every shift. Order leads, cleaning up. I mentioned that earlier. Order leads will be out cleaning up. Or sometimes there's a little library. An orderly can be a library reading. While other than that, for the most part, the shoe is on lockdown. Question. Thank you. My colleague has a few questions about the timeline, so I'll turn it over. Okay. Ms. Noel, I just have a few questions related to Epstein's time at MCC before August 9th and August 10th. Okay. Question. So it's our understanding from the OIG report that Epstein was arrested and brought to the MCC on July 6th and that he was initially placed in general population and then on July 7, he was moved over to the shuffle. Are you aware of that? Answer no. Question okay, so it was your understanding that he was brought directly to the shoe? Answer to the shoe. Question okay, and we established earlier, I think that he was brought to the shoe because he was high profile in nature. Answer Correct. Question did you hear anyone harassing Epstein and general population? Answer no. Question okay. Did you hear anything about other inmates trying to get them to put money on their commissary accounts? Answer no. Question okay, did you ever hear Epstein paying any other inmates to protect him either in general pop or in the shoe? Answer no. Question and when's the first time that you met or spoke to Epstein? Answer the first time that I spoke to Epstein would have been August 9th. Question okay. On July 8th, Epstein was screened by a psychologist and was placed on psychological observation. Were you aware of that? Yes. And is this something that typically happens when an inmate is brought into the shoe? Are they usually given a psychological screening? They're supposed to. Question okay. And is that just when they're brought into the shoe or when they're brought into general population or another unit? Answer that. I'm not sure. Okay, you're just aware of the shoe process and we talked about the events on July 23rd. So. So I'm not going to get into that. But I would like to ask you a little bit about the suicide watch process. So it's our understanding that he was placed on suicide watch that same day, but then he was taken off suicide watch the next morning on July 24th. Is that your understanding as well? Answer yes. Question okay, and what is suicide watch? Could you describe the process of that a little bit? So when you're on suicide watch, you not upstairs in the shoe? Question okay. Answer. You're downstairs in a holding cell with no garments, no shoestring. It's like a mock like a Velcro smock.

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[Interviewer]

And you're being watched 24 Hours by another inmate. Question okay. By another inmate. Answer correct. Question what about MCC staff? Is there staffers that work in the holding cell area as well? Answer. I'm not sure. I just know the actual inmate has to be eyes. Has to be on the person all the time. By another inmate. As far as another staff, I'm not sure. Okay. Is the other inmate a cellmate or are they just there to watch? No, they wouldn't have been a cellmate. They're not even from the shu. It would have been an inmate because some inmates are allowed to work, so that will be the inmate's job. Like they're working. Okay. And do you have an understanding of why someone's placed on suicide watch? Obviously, we know why Mr. Epstein was. But other reasons that individuals would be placed on suicide watch. If they're saying that they. Some people just say it. Some people attempt they will be placed on suicide watch. I don't know of any other reason why they would be placed. Question. Okay, and how about why somebody would be taken off suicide watch? Answer that. I'm not aware of that process. Okay, and was it normal? It sounds like Mr. Epstein was on suicide watch for about 24 hours. Is that a typical time from your understanding? I'm not aware of the process. That would be the psychologist. Okay. And do you know why Mr. Epstein was taken off suicide watch? I don't know. Okay, so then it's our understanding that he was moved to something called psychological observation, and he was on under psychological observation from July 24 to around July 30. Is that correct to your recollection? Yes. Okay, and then could you just describe what psychological observation is? I don't know. Okay, do you know if it looks similar to suicide watch? I have no idea. Okay, Are you aware of whether inmates have a cellmate when they're under psychological observation? Answer I don't know. Question does psychological observation also take place in the hold room, or are they in the shoe? Answer. Psychological observation? I don't know. Question okay, so you're not aware of whether he was in the same holding room? Answer Right. I don't know. Question. But he was brought back to the shoe after that. Psychological observation ended to your understanding? Answer Correct. Question. On July 30? Correct. Question okay, and he was placed in a different cell when he was brought back? Answer Correct. Because he wasn't with Tartaglioni anymore. Question yes. So that was when he was moved to ltr. Correct. Question. And to your understanding before that? I think he was in mtr. Is that correct? Answer. I don't remember the letters, but he was on the bottom where he was with Tartaglione before there was were on the bottom of the middle tier. All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.

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