Europe does not have a deep tech problem. It has a commercialisation problem.

The last European companies to reach €100B+ market caps were SAP and ASML, both founded 40–50 years ago. If Europe wants a new generation of deep tech champions, venture capital alone won’t get us there. Customers have to step in.

In this episode, Andreas Munk Holm is joined by Martin Schilling, former operator, investor, and founder of Deep Tech Momentum, to unpack why Europe excels at funding breakthroughs but consistently fails to industrialise them.

This is a conversation about:

* why enterprise buyers are the missing link in European deep tech

* what corporates are doing wrong (and how they can fix it)

* how founders actually win large customers in complex, regulated markets

* and why courage — not grants — is Europe’s real constraint

🎧 Here’s what’s covered:

* 01:15 Martin’s background: from N26 operator to deep tech ecosystem builder

* 01:52 What is Deep Tech Momentum (DTM)?

* 03:00 Why commercialisation — not capital — is the real bottleneck

* 04:19 The age gap: Europe’s top companies vs the US

* 06:26 Why US corporates acquire twice as many startups as Europe

* 06:54 The uncomfortable truth: Europe funds innovation others industrialise

* 08:54 Why corporates (not just VCs) must change behaviour

* 10:49 Neo-primes: the new system integrators Europe desperately needs

* 12:50 The four things corporates must fix to work with startups

* 15:06 Why startup collaboration must be CEO-owned

* 17:14 Buyers first: why conferences get this wrong

* 19:03 Money + customers: the only two things founders really need

* 21:27Trust, speed, and why procurement kills startups

* 23:25 Why trust starts inside the corporate, not with founders

* 27:03 Selling deep tech to enterprises & governments: what actually works

* 32:03 When CVCs help — and when they hurt

* 33:08 Enterprise sales mistakes founders keep making

* 38:28 Deep tech sales reality: defense, policy, and long cycles

* 44:57 Why DTM is not EU-funded — by design

* 49:07 The state’s real role: customer, not grant machine

* 49:23 Final takeaway: Europe needs courage, not more programs

🎧 Listen on Apple or Spotify, or queue it for later with chapters ready to go.

✍️ Show Notes

Europe’s Deep Tech Bottleneck Isn’t Science — It’s Demand

Europe has world-class research in:

* quantum

* robotics

* biotech

* advanced materials

* space & defense

What it lacks is enterprise pull.

As Martin puts it:

“Europe funds breakthroughs — and others industrialise them.”

The result:

* European deep tech startups scale slower

* exits skew toward US acquirers

* capital recycles out of the continent

This isn’t new — but it’s now existential.

The Age Problem No One Talks About

One of the most striking stats Martin shares:

* Top 10 European companies by market cap: average age ~87 years

* Top 10 US companies: average age ~30–35 years

Why this matters:

* younger companies collaborate more easily with startups

* older corporates accumulate bureaucracy, risk aversion, and procurement drag

* acquisition and partnership muscle atrophies over time

In the US, Fortune 500 companies acquire 2x more startups than their European counterparts. Silicon Valley giants acquire 10–20x more.

That difference alone reshapes ecosystems.

Neo-Primes: Europe’s Missing Layer

Martin introduces the idea of “neo-primes” — modern system integrators that:

* assemble deep tech into deployable products

* act as customers, partners, and acquirers

* industrialise innovation at speed

Examples are emerging in defense and AI — but Europe needs many more.

“These companies must become the next SAPs and ASMLs — and pull startups with them.”

The Four Corporate Failures Blocking Deep Tech

Martin outlines four systemic problems corporates must solve:

1. CEO Ownership

Startup collaboration cannot live in:

* innovation labs

* venture units

* CTO side projects

If it doesn’t sit on the CEO agenda, it dies.

2. Trust Deficit

Corporates fear startups will:

* disappear

* fail to deliver

* collapse mid-procurement

Founders fear:

* endless pilots

* slow decisions

* zero P&L ownership

Trust must be rebuilt structurally — not rhetorically.

3. Capability Gaps

Most corporates lack:

* fast POC budgets

* empowered decision-makers

* integration paths into core business

Innovation theatre no longer works.

4. P&L Clarity

Startups must articulate — clearly:

* revenue uplift

* cost reduction

* competitive advantage

If it doesn’t hit the P&L within 9–12 months, it won’t scale.

Buyers First, Not Investors First

A core insight behind Deep Tech Momentum:

“Markets only work if buyers show up first.”

Instead of building conferences around:

* startups → then VCs → then LPs

DTM flips it:

* enterprise buyers first

* founders follow

* investors amplify

The goal isn’t inspiration — it’s contracts.

How Founders Actually Win Enterprise Customers

From Martin’s operator playbook:

* Track input KPIs, not just revenue

* proposals sent per week

* outreach → meetings → pilots

* Maintain 3–4x pipeline coverage

* Design sales cycles around:

* regulators

* policymakers

* primes & system integrators

In sectors like defense, founders must:

* engage political stakeholders

* influence capability definitions

* sell years before procurement begins

This isn’t optional — it’s the job.

The State’s Real Role: Customer, Not Grant Giver

One of the sharpest critiques in the episode:

Europe doesn’t need more grants.It needs state demand.

Historical reminder:

* The US Department of Defense bought ~70% of early semiconductors

* That procurement created entire industries

The lesson:

* less regulation

* fewer fragmented programs

* more state purchasing power deployed deliberately

Final Thought: Europe Needs Courage

Martin closes with a challenge:

“Trust requires courage.Courage to take risk.Courage to buy early.Courage to move fast.”

Europe doesn’t lack talent, capital, or ideas.It lacks confidence and commercial bravery.

💡 One-Liner Takeaway

Europe doesn’t need more deep tech — it needs customers brave enough to buy it.

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Martin Schilling, Deep Tech Momentum: Why Europe’s Deep Tech Problem Isn’t Funding