← The Everyday Millionaire and Mindset Matters Podcast
The Everyday Millionaire and Mindset Matters Podcast
Episode #241 - Luxury With Purpose: Julie Colombino-Billingham on Fair Trade, Fashion, and Dignity
01:19:04
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome to the Everyday Millionaire podcast. My name is Patrick Francie and I am your host. And I want to begin by saying thank you for listening. On this show, I am having conversations with seemingly ordinary individuals who have achieved some amazing and extraordinary results in both their life and business. My intention is to inspire and help you learn and grow by having my guests share their journey of how they face and overcome their challenges, but also how they celebrate their their many wins. And now let's get on with this show and have a conversation with today's guest. What if luxury wasn't about status, but about dignity? What if the most powerful fashion statement you could make wasn't about what you're wearing, but who it empowers? Today's guest didn't set out to build a fashion brand. She was confronted with a moment in the aftermath of the 2010 Haiti earthquake. Standing in the rubble of unimaginable loss, Julie Columbino Billingham heard a sentence that changed the trajectory of her life. Sentence was, I don't want money. I need a job. That line cut deep because dignity doesn't come from charity. It comes from work. What began as a disaster relief evolved into de man. French for two hands. Two hands that create, two hands that earn, two hands that build a future. Today, Daman is a globally recognized fair trade verified luxury brand and home to the only woman owned solar powered leather goods. And it's a factory in Haiti now. This isn't a charity story. It's a leadership story. It is a resilience story. It's an enterprise story. Building a luxury brand anywhere is hard. Building one in Haiti through political instability, currency volatility, supply chain disruption and global competition requires conviction that most people never see. With partnerships that include Nordstrom's United nations and Eileen Fisher, Julie has proven that purpose and profitability are not mutually exclusive. And with her upcoming memoir, From Lost to Legacy, she's sharing the real story behind the brand. The cost of entry, the risk, the resilience. So today we're not talking about handbags. We're talking about dignity, enterprise, and whether capitalism, when structured intentionally, can be one of the most powerful humanitarian tools we have. Listen in. Enjoy. Let's get this show started. Julie, welcome to the Everyday Millionaire podcast. Thanks so much for joining me.
- [02:53]
B
Oh, thanks for having me, Patrick. I'm excited to be here.
- [02:56]
A
Well, listen, you've got a fascinating story and I'm impressed with just what you've accomplished and what you did in a moment in time and kind of a. We'll call that a fork in the road moment for you, I think it sounds like. So you're in Haiti, it's been hammered in 2010. And I think the comment somebody made to you is, I don't need. We don't need the money, we need a job. Something along that line.
- [03:27]
B
I need a job.
- [03:28]
A
Yeah, yeah. So was it literally like a light bulb moment for you when that came
- [03:34]
B
to be, you know. Well, I was. I had been responding to the disaster. I think it had been about two or three months by that point. And throughout my tenure in Haiti, I was realizing that the response effort, something was misaligned. I mean, of course this was like the most catastrophic thing I'd ever like deployed to. So it was shocking and mind blowing, but I still just felt in like the core of my being that something wasn't right. And I couldn't really put my finger on it. But when that lady said that to me, like, you know, here I think we're handing out this site, this life saving, you know, bottles of water and tents and tarps, and she's like, I don't want your water, I want a job. And so, yeah, I have to say that I had been sprinkled on through throughout the months, but that was the revolutionary point where I knew, yeah, she's absolutely right.
- [04:21]
A
But there's a part of you are wired that way. I mean, you came from a background, if I'm got it right, the story right, you come from a background of disaster relief. Is that where your training was?
- [04:31]
B
That's right, Yeah. I have a master's in nonprofit management with a focus on disaster response. So I've always kind of been in the social services and operate well in chaos, I guess. So yeah, that was my background and that was, you know, where I thought I would always live and where I would always be. But the more the world definitely throws different things at you and changes your course, doesn't it? Or it sure can, it does.
- [04:55]
A
So give me a little bit of your background in terms of disaster relief. I'll call her a good acquaintance of mine in Canada and specifically in the province of Alberta several years ago, basically there was a city in Canada, in Alberta, that got hit by a huge fire. I mean, it wiped out not the whole town by any stretch, but a very significant part of that particular city. And you know, the conversation that I had with her at that time was just how unprepared people are. Her. Her goal is always to go around in disaster relief and help cities prepare for those inevitable disasters. But those are in. That's in Cities and in provinces, in our case or states, in your case, that. I mean, they have budgets, they have, you know, infrastructure. They have people that you can talk to that can say, okay, well, we can make that happen. We can lobby the. We can do all the things that happen politically. But you're in. You've got that background. So how many years were you in that whole disaster relief world or social services world that prepared you for Haiti, that actually got you to Haiti through their tough time?
- [06:09]
B
I would say I'd probably. I'd been in the industry for about 10 to 15 years at that point. And I had traveled, you know, different places, you know, underdeveloped places like in Africa and around the world. And then I had responded to disasters like Hurricane Katrina. So I had kind of seen the spectrum of, you know, first world disaster response, you know, third world disaster response. But the thing about Haiti was that the poverty was so pervasive that, you know, like, so kind of, to your point, like, zero infrastructure. And so it wasn't just that the disaster had stripped the country of so much, but it was that there was so little there to begin with. And that. And that was the part that was like, okay, this is something that I want to be a part of, is not just rebuilding the buildings and, you know, communities and schools and how, you know, just kind of like getting people back on their feet. But how do we then look at the poverty that had, you know, hurt the nation for so long before? How do we start fixing that problem? And that's.
- [07:05]
A
So, Julie, before I forget, you wrote a book recently, and I. And I, you released it in November 2025. And I don't want to not address that, but. So I want to come back to it, but let's put it here for listeners. Give me the title of your book.
- [07:21]
B
The book is called From Lost to Legacy. How a Fashion Business Rose from Hades Rebel. And it really is just the. You know, it started out as a journal. Then I thought it was going to be a textbook of what not to do when building a business in the developing world. And then it became a memoir, a story of me and my colleagues of how we did really build this business. But, you know, kind of looking at. And being very honest and transparent about the mistakes that we made because there were so many and hoping that maybe, you know, people can either circumnavigate some of those mistakes if they start their own ventures and maybe be a little inspired by the incredible people of Haiti, you know, through this.
- [07:58]
A
So, you know, just off camera, when we, you know, before we got on, we were talking about the fact that one of the topics that my wife, Stephanie and I are addressing right now is about resilience and, you know, the realization in the work that we do and coaching that we do in terms of supporting people into becoming the best version of themselves. Stephanie's work with Olympic and world class athletes is she actually creates adversity. Like she creates scenarios for her clients so that they're actually prepared for whatever might come their way, but they're actually building that muscle of resilience. So adversity creates or helps develop resilience. If, if you lean into it in that way, realizing that whatever you're going through, I mean, I, I can't imagine the reason I spent a little bit of time on it, Julie, is that you're in Haiti. You're surrounded by a total disaster. You're in a, you're in Haiti, where they don't have infrastructure, there's not a lot of money. It's politically controversial at best. I would use that term. I guess, first off, how do you get into that world? Like, I'm a capitalist, I'm an entrepreneur, I'm very compassionate. I like to use the term. I believe that I'm a compassionate capitalist. They go together, I think, in terms of having compassion. But what was it that led you on the journey of social services? Led you on the journey of saying, I need to help people? And often it seems that the worst disasters seem to happen in countries or areas that are often don't have that infrastructure. It seems to be the worst case scenarios. What got you on that journey to begin with? Was it part of just how you were brought up? Give me a little bit of that background, Julie.
- [09:50]
B
Yeah, well, I can say that I think I was definitely brought up. You know, my parents always taught me to be compassionate. My mom said when I was five years old, I was collecting canned food for soldiers. And, you know, I would always just was that kid that, you know, wanted to help the underdog. I, I think that's, you know, something, maybe just some way I was born. And then as I got older and I started to study, I realized how lucky I was that I was a woman born in America with access to education and just different things. I was learning in my studies that, you know, we did this case study about women in Africa who were given bottled formula and if they mixed it with water, they could, you know, help their kids and not realizing they weren't trained how to use the right water. And so babies were dying with this dirty water. And it was just this lack of education and just realizing, like, all these good intentions that people might have, oh, I just want to donate powdered formula. Thinking that's a good idea, but not realizing all the steps it takes. And if you're not from a particular place and from a particular community and understanding the experience of those people, how detrimental it can be. It just, you know, started to creep in with me more and more of like, using the. I don't know if you call it luck or the gift or the blessing or whatever you want to call it that I have that I was given an education. I was born into a middle class family and I wanted to do something with that and I wanted it to matter. And the women of Haiti really, you know, like, I was. I was already that way. But then the women of Haiti made me realize, like, the kind of woman I wanted to be as I was growing up. You know, they. They were like, when you talk about resilience, I mean, I can tell you these stories. We had this really terrible year. I think it was like 2013 or 2014, and we had a fire and we had a flood and our generator was stolen and I got dengue fever. And it was just like, it was the worst month ever. And I remember I went over and I sat on the lap of my adult book colleague, business partner, Joine. I literally sat on her lap and I started crying. And I was like, I just don't think I can take it anymore. And she took her two thumbs and wiped the tears from my eyes and said, are you done? Okay, Analy, back to work.
- [11:55]
A
That's beautiful. So, you know, I love that story. And so, you know, within the context of this podcast, we often go back to what the show's all about. Seemingly ordinary individuals who've achieved extraordinary results. And when I think about what you just shared in your background, so you kind of, at 5 years old, you're doing what you're doing. So you come out of the chute with a big heart. I mean, and with that kind of compassion at a cellular level built in somewhere along the line and empathy and all the things that go with it. When you're facing. So you're in Haiti or whatever kind of disaster you're dealing with, how do you disconnect from. I mean, it's gotta be emotionally challenging and heartbreaking to see the struggles of so many. And you're there going, how do I make a difference? Like, really lands for me as just so, like, even thinking about it kind of overwhelms me, and I think I'm pretty equipped, but I don't know that I would be equipped to face the challenges that you were facing and face in those scenarios. Give me a little bit of just how do you emotionally, mentally, kind of handle all of that coming at you? Plus, you're there to solve a problem, you're there to help. So how do you kind of approach it mentally, if you will? How do you hold the space for that?
- [13:26]
B
You know, I always say there were more down times than ups in this journey. And there were some really dark times, if I'm going to be totally honest. I mean, I remember season when I felt so guilty for eating because there were so many kids around us. Even just on my walk from. I was at the time living at the UN log base. That's where my tent was pitched. And I was working about a half a mile up the road. And on this walk to work, I mean, these kids were just hungry and asking for food. And so I just remember feeling dirty and terrible and just like I didn't deserve to eat. So there was a season where I stopped eating and got myself sick, and then, I mean, got worms, and I just did not take care of myself, and I got so sick, and then I couldn't help anybody else. And so then you come to that point where you say, okay, it is kind of that annoying where you put your phone face mask on before you help somebody else. But it was real because I was slowly killing myself. Not sleeping, not eating. I mean, smoking cigarettes, taking up these terrible habits, drinking and like, crazy. I mean, a lot of relief workers drink heavily and smoke heavily. I mean, we were really in the thick of it. And so picking up all these terrible habits just to survive. And then something just has to click and say, okay, if you're going to make it through this, look around you and see how. How are the people of Haiti doing this? And they're doing this with grit and resilience and faith and passion and community. And that's how they did it. And so I slowly picked up the lessons from the people of Haiti, and that's how I survived it.
- [15:03]
A
You know, it's interesting that I share, not that the similar story, but the whole, you know, part of what I. When I speak and I'm working with different audiences, you know, part of what I try and share is that. And this is really common. It's common for parents. It's often common for the moms, right, who they give, give, give, give, give. They're looking after their kids Their husbands, their in laws, their outlaws, the community, the church, whatever that might be. They're continually giving. And the next thing you know, the tank is running on empty and it's, you know, what you just shared is so important. That realization that you had is that I'm no good to anybody if I don't look after myself. It is the most feeling of selfishness, but the most selfless thing that you can do. In order for you to look after others, you have to look after yourself. You are the center of that universe in terms of what you need to create and hold space for and then have the energy and the thought process and the mental clarity to solve problems and deal with it. Right. And you are actually a perfect example of what happens. You break down and gosh, you're no good to anybody anymore.
- [16:15]
B
Yeah. And you know what else? I remember when I was in that space, I was so angry. So when you talk about the mental clarity, I was so angry at the system, I was angry at poverty, I was angry at nobody was doing enough and we didn't have enough. And it was just, I was so, so I couldn't think strategically about solution based, you know, ways to act, to behave, to move forward. And so you're absolutely right. Like it's that mental clarity is everything. And if you don't check yourself and take care of yourself, those things can creep in really fast.
- [16:45]
A
Now, are you still within the business? Give us a little bit of demand and what you're doing and is it still connected to Haiti or where has that all kind of evolved to 16
- [16:58]
B
years and going strong. So what we started in August of 2010 was literally this little shack made out of tents and tarps and me and four ladies sitting on the floor because we couldn't even afford chairs at the time, you know, making our leather goods and doing all these different things to now, 16 years later, we have a 11,000 square foot solar powered factory right in the center of Port au Prince, about 50 craftspeople working. Not only do we manufacture handbags that are exported and sold in places like Nordstrom's and small boutiques along the U.S. but we also make school shoes for Haitian children. And I think that's one of the most beautiful parts about what we do is that our shoe manufacturing side is changing the rhythm of how people look at Haiti. So there's a lot of missionaries and people in Haiti who would historically donate old shoes to Haitian children. And even though in Haiti, a mandatory school uniform, including black patent leather shoes like closed toed shoes, are Part of the uniform that would just be disregarded. And you'd see little kids walking in sneakers that are four sizes, two bigs or flip flops. And people shouldn't have access to new leather shoes. And we're like, well, why don't we make them? And so four years ago, we invested in all the machinery and equipment and training, and we started making school shoes. And it's been not only fun to create more jobs that way, but also to educate people on Haitian children are worth a brand new pair of school shoes. So let's make them and sell them and buy them locally. Let's do all of that locally. And so it's been a really great part of our business. So we've. We've definitely changed over the years, like, the product that we make. But the mission has always been the same. Create great products, create great jobs.
- [18:40]
A
And is it specific to Haiti? So, like, when I'm thinking, so let me give me a little bit of. Has the business expanded? Be like, is that your primary base? Is that your primary focus in terms of you're there to support Haitians in jobs and whatever else you might do within Haiti, or have you expanded to other countries? Where are you in that process?
- [19:06]
B
Patrick? The dream would be to take the model and expand it all over the world, wherever education and good jobs are needed. But we are just in this painfully slow growth. So even though we've been open for 16 years, it has been, I mean, barely, you know, making payroll. And, you know, even though we've been growing and had all these great things happen, it is just. It is a hard industry. And so we have not been able to expand outside of Haiti. But before we even expand outside of Haiti, I would like to open up more factories in different places in the country, you know, to create more jobs. Haiti has a 79% unemployment or underemployment rate, which means jobs are crucial. You know, so there's a lot of, you know, you'll see marketplaces where there's a lot of bartering and trading. So no income generation coming into a lot of families. So, like, really good jobs with health care and maternity leave and paternity leave and all of these things that. That, you know, create healthy families and communities are needed in Haiti. So my. My goal now is I'm just a saleswoman. So this is my role in the company. I sell bags and I sell shoes, and the more I sell, the more jobs I create. And so that's literally what I do now. So even though, like, I think in my Heart. And my passion is being a job creation activist. I'm a saleswoman. That's what I do.
- [20:23]
A
But it sounds like, you know, part of that, part of your sales job, maybe, Julie, is to pitch the idea, the concept to others who could take it to other countries, to other, you know, impoverished cities or countries and use and rebuild the model. Is there, Is there some similar models? Like, are now, are you not for profit? Are you for profit? I don't recall.
- [20:47]
B
We are a for profit business. But we also do have a charity, a nonprofit called Rebuild Globally, that is education and job training focused and kind of like our secret sauce, which has made our model work and is why I truly believe we're still open today, even amongst the political chaos that's happening in Haiti right now, is because our leadership team is all graduates. Our education and job training program. So young people who've been invested in since they were 10, 11, 12 years old go through their education program, go through job training, and then have a guaranteed job at Domain. And so it was at first, you know, creating jobs for craftspeople, for shoemakers and handbag makers, but then it was like, okay, we're growing. We need, we need an HR manager and we need an operations manager. And so we need this whole middle management team. And that all came from the graduates of the charities program. So I think, you know, especially in places of extreme poverty, the nonprofit, for profit, hybrid models are really needed because there's also 1% of students go to university in Haiti. So there's kind of like a middle management problem. There's a little issue. There's a lot of issues we've had to circumnavigate. But through that model, we've been able to kind of succeed over the barriers before they were a problem.
- [22:02]
A
When you look at Haiti, Julie, just out of curiosity, and I think it's. I don't know a lot about Haiti, like, I don't know, population wise. I don't know. Politically, when you make a comment about, about what's going on politically, I'm going, okay, well, where is it? I mean, that's happening in Canada. Arguably, it's happening at different levels in first world nations, first world countries. I mean, look what's going on in the US look what's happening in Canada. I mean, there isn't a place where politically there isn't some level of something going on. So it's kind of a blanket statement. I know that we could apply to anything. But give me a little bit of Haiti population, political tendency. Is it communism what is it?
- [22:45]
B
Well, it is democratic, but, you know, so Haiti had something unique happen that hasn't happened. I mean, that. I mean, it's happened before, but four years ago in July, the president was assassinated. So since the assassination, gangs have taken over. So basically, like coup de kai gangs have taken over 90% of the capital. So the air. So, for example, the airport has been closed for 16 months. So I haven't even seen my own company in 16 months because you can't get into Port au Prince. So, you know, people, they're closing up access to roads, to ports. I mean, it is mayhem in Haiti right now. So people are really suffering. But something that I've learned is that life still happens, even amongst all this chaos, and people learn to live and to survive and to do what they do. It's more expensive to operate in Haiti. It's more dangerous for the team to operate. But, you know, we are hoping peace will come soon. They say that, you know, different. Different fraction factions have come along to, you know, deployed to kind of control the gangs, but at this point, the gangs control everything.
- [23:48]
A
Maybe you need to. Maybe you need to wander over to El Salvador, talk to Bukele and say, give me the model for cleaning up this mess, you know, because he seems to have done a pretty good job.
- [23:59]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, honestly, we need. We need something to come in and something to happen for the people of Haiti to restore safety and, you know, obviously for women, I mean, for all people, it's unsafe for children, for women particularly, but, yeah, something needs to happen.
- [24:16]
A
So from a business point of view, as a CEO, I think that's your role. CEO, right?
- [24:21]
B
Correct.
- [24:22]
A
So, I mean, you've got to be very concerned for the safety of your team. Certainly there's got to be a consideration, the fact that you can't get in and out of the country easily or at all right now. Do you have strong advocates within the country? Like, I'm looking at the business model. I'm going, Julie, you know, like, maybe it's time to just wrap this up. Yeah, but I, you know, I'm just throwing that as an advisor, like. Like, if I was an advisor, I'd go, julie, you got to take a hard look at what you got going on here. What is, you know, you're putting yourself at risk, you know, you know, financially, at least to some degree, whatever that might look like. But then you're putting your team at risk. You're. You've got a lot going on. And I'm going to. Gosh, Julie, you know, you're scraping, you're making it all work, but it's. You're working your ass off to do it. What keeps you going? How do you view that as a business directive, if you will, as a CEO going, man, we're going to keep doing this. You know, like, how do you. How do you keep going?
- [25:19]
B
You know, it's. It's funny because I, you know, for. For a while, for a couple years, actually, I kept thinking, my investors, any day we're going to say, pull out or we're pulling out, you know, like something means, something's going to have to give because, you know, obviously it's been four years since the assassination of the president, and things have just increasingly gotten worse, I can tell you. The first thing is, in October, four years ago, I did decide to close the factory because I was so scared of the team walking into the factory. I was petrified. I couldn't sleep. And about 10 days after I closed the factory, the leadership team called and said, we need to meet. And they basically said, we need to go to work. The factory. Solar power, there's water, there's electricity, there's a radio. There's our. Our livelihood. And I sat there 700 miles in my safe home in Florida and thought, how dare I unanimously make the decision for the rest of the team when I. When I'm sitting here? And I thought, as long as we are making and selling a product, which we were, as long as there was still demand for the product, who am I? And so the leadership team makes a daily call to this day, a daily call of if. If the factory will be open. And I have to say, like, nine times out of 10, the factory is open. You know, we have, for whatever reason, kept in good standings with the. With the gang leaders of our. Of our communities. We are. Our factories kind of butted up against a school that about 500 gang children go to. And so there's a lot. There's a lot less fire activity, gun activity around our area. And we are still open. We're one of the very few and the only shoe manufacturing company opening open still in the country. So from a business perspective, I'll just say, I think when peace does come and the floods will come back and people want to come back and start businesses and, you know, and the headlines will come back and Haiti's open for business and all this, we are going to be damn well positioned to take the leadership role in that. And so as long as we keep going.
- [27:16]
A
This is just so fascinating for me, so when you look at the team in Haiti, are they all Haitian, or have you got some of your US Team there? Give me a little bit of, like, they're there. Who's there?
- [27:29]
B
Have you got 100% Haitian team in Haiti? So there's only two foreigners that work for the company, and that's me and my colleague Sarah. And we're the only two that. That are in Florida, not in Haiti, and not Haitian. The rest of the team is Haitian.
- [27:41]
A
Got it? So, and then tell me a little bit about the gangs. Like, what are the gangs? You know, what's their. What's their primary. Is it what drugs and what. Like, what is. What's their business model? Do you have some understanding, I'm sure, of what their business model is as a gang?
- [27:58]
B
Do you know what, to this day, I mean, we read every article, we listen to every interview, we listen to the radio, try to understand, like, what is the. What is the end objective? And I can't figure it out, like, for the life of me. I. You know, we've had so many conversations about, you know, what is it about power? Is it, you know, a lot of gang leaders talk about respect. You know, a lot of people, you know, there's so many different theories, talk about how, you know, they were brought to power for a particular reason. You know, I. I honestly, I can't speak intelligently about it because in my core, I don't understand it. You know, it is gang leadership and gang warfare. And I. I do know that, like, you know, there's nine official gangs that are controlling the capital city. And when. When there was a faction that did come in to try to fight the gangs, the gangs all came together and they caught Viva sahm. They live together, they work together there, fighting now, fighting the outside forces together. I mean, it is basically, you know, Haiti is a very, very complicated history. And as the very first free black republic, I mean, we. Some people, myself included, believe Haiti is still being punished for the fact that it ended slavery. I mean, my God, Haitian people are so incredible that they fought against all the odds to end slavery in their own country 50 years before we ended slavery in America. I mean, and Haiti was, you know, the place they say slaves go to die because the treatment was so incredibly harsh in Haiti. And so it was just. It's quite amazing, I think, what Haitian people have done. And, I mean, they paid retrogrades to France for forever, you know, and just became poorer and poorer and destruction and corruption has interceded and taken over. And so the people suffer, you Know,
- [29:42]
A
when I hear about the gangs, you know, in, to the degree I understand because I've actually, I have a friend who's from El Salvador, a good friend. Had. He got his, his mother had to escape El Salvador, leave him there when he was, you know, basically a two year old raised by his grandmother, but not allowed to leave the house because the gangs, they were worried that the gangs would kidnap him because mom had fled to the US like again, another interesting story. But the point is, is those gangs were, they're fighting against each other. It got way out of control. They didn't really have a purpose. And that's why I go like, you know, when you think about the cartel, for example, like right now Mexico is melting down and all the things that are happening, but the cartel, which is really a giant gang, if we, I don't want to dumb it down too much to the degree I understand it, but they had a business model and that business model is, you know, drugs and all the things that they do. But they're very involved in building the communities because that served them. They were actually, they invested billions of dollars into schools and hospitals. And next thing you know, you had all of the residents going, oh, the gangs are not so bad. You know, like, we can, we can live with it. You know, we can live with that given what they're providing. But that's not what's happening in Haiti by the side.
- [31:02]
B
I mean, to be honest, the exact opposite. I mean like burning out hospitals. And that was like when they, when they burnt out one of the main hospitals in, in Delma, it was like this is. They were treating the, the gunshot wounds of gang members. Why burn that to the ground? And this was the thing of burning everything to the ground, you know, attacking schools, attacking hospitals. I don't that, that's what I'm saying. It, it just in no way makes sense to me because this is your community too, you know, and I get this fear based mentality, you know, and scaring children into becoming gang members. And you know, I think we saw a lot of that in Sudan and in different places. And that's kind of following a similar model in Haiti, you know, child soldiers.
- [31:44]
A
So you carry a lot of weight in terms of, I'm sure, the sense of responsibility that you feel to your team in Haiti and of course to Haitians in general, that, you know, providing shoes, for example, you know, and doing what you're doing, the jobs that are there, the safety that your factory provides, that space for people to go to and have purpose and generate an income, does that weigh on you day to day? There's one question. Yeah, let me. I'll just do one question at a time because, like, my brain's racing right now. Like, I'm just going, holy crap, Julie. What the hell are you doing, woman? It's crazy.
- [32:20]
B
Yeah, it definitely weighs on me daily. It weighs on both me and my colleague, Sarah Daly. You know, I guess a bit of guilt, especially like that we're safe, you know, and, and have access to. To different things that, you know, every day, you know, talking to the team. Just the first question is, hey, are you okay? How are, how are things today? Like, but when you ask, are you okay? It's literally like, are you okay? Like, is your family okay? Are you safe? No, it's.
- [32:47]
A
And I just want to. Sorry to interrupt, but I think there's a distinction there. You're phoning as in, are you okay? As in, are you in danger? Are you safe? Are. You know, it's not like, how you feeling today? You know, did you know, oh, gosh, you know, you got a bill in the mail. Like, it's not that this is just a far more. You're not, you know, looking. I mean, as much as you probably do have to support some of the emotional highs and lows of a team, that's not really what you're talking about at this level.
- [33:17]
B
No, I mean, I can tell you what was maybe three or four months ago. I was in England with my husband and I get a call at 3 o' clock in the morning. The fact there's a fire at the factory. And so the way it works is you have to pay for the water truck because the fire department doesn't have water. But the fire department wouldn't come into our, into our area because it's considered a red zone. So I get a video of the team with buckets of water. I mean, it looks like it's like 1750 with buckets of water putting out this fire outside the factory. And you just think, one just so grateful for a team that has, you know, this passion inside them to protect the factory at all costs. And then you just, you know, pray to God they get it out in time so nobody has to go home too late because nobody's supposed to walk in the dark and. Or, you know, people have slept at the factory before. I mean, things that you can't even imagine, you know, like, you know, I remember maybe like 10 years ago, people saying, oh, you should be part of the CEO circle in Florida. And I would go to these Meetings and listen to other CEOs talk about things. And I was like, we haven't had running water in four days. Or, you know, just comparable, you know, the. The issues that we have. Yet in addition to all those issues, I still have to look at my sales number and my margins and, you know, the competition. And so it's. It is kind of, you know, you feel. You feel a little crazy. And my husband always says if he got reincarnated, he want to come back as a computer, because I'm always on it. Like, I am just always working
- [34:42]
A
hands all over something lets you come back to the computer. That's great. I got to use that line, I think. So now, in. In Haiti, though, political chaos. Aside from that, do you. Do you have some political advocates there that are at least trying to step up with you, that you have relationship with them where you. You maybe see some light at the end of the tunnel?
- [35:06]
B
You know, we. We've always, for the last 16 years, kept our head down. And just like, you know, we pay our taxes, we get audited every year. We, you know, we do the things to operate a business, you know, in Haiti and just stay, kind of stay the course. Because as a foreigner, not only am I a foreigner, I'm a woman, you know, I'm kind of like the lowest of the low, you know, in a sense. And so I think that the smartest thing that we've done is that we treat everybody with kindness, from the street kids to the gang member. I mean, you just have to play the games, right? You. You do. You. You do what you have to do. And before the presidential assassination, Haiti was such a beautiful place to live and work. And even though the poverty was so pervasive, the people of Haiti are so amazing that you want to be there and you want to see opportunity come, because that's all poverty is, a lack of opportunity. And whether that's because somebody took something away or there just wasn't something there, environmental or whatever it was, it's just. That's what it is. And so creating jobs was just a way to bring opportunity to people.
- [36:13]
A
And what about us? Is there any political advocates that are interested in what you're doing in Haiti? I mean, it seems that U.S. canada, Australia, whatever there is, sometimes that seems to be that tendency to say, okay, well, we have a problem over there. We can offer some support. Does Haiti even come up in a conversation with the politician out of the US that might be interested in being an advocate?
- [36:41]
B
I think Haiti's taken a bit of a backseat Because I think there was, like, Haiti fatigue, because after the earthquake and then there was just. I mean, there was literally a problem every quarter. I mean, something huge. If it wasn't an earthquake or a hurricane or political issue or something. I mean, there's always something. And now that I think. I think something that keeps people connected to different countries is being able to visit and go. And because no one's been to Haiti in 16 months, nobody will travel there. You can't travel there. I do feel like the very few stories that come out are just the negative stories that, you know, kind of
- [37:19]
A
keep what is Haiti's kind of. And I know I'm talking a lot about this because I just want to really kind of unpack it a little bit as we move on in the conversation. Julie. But what is their kind of primary. What do they export? You know, like, what do they do that is supporting the economy overall?
- [37:35]
B
Yeah. Used to be textiles. So there used to be some textile companies in there. I'm not sure if, you know, the big kind of the. The big thing that the US did under. Under the Clintons was, you know, we killed the rice industry by importing our. Our subsidized rice to Haiti, stopping all rice farming in Haiti. So, like, we've killed, as the US have killed, so much industry in Haiti that there's not a lot going on right now. And especially because of the political situation, there's not a lot of factory work. There's just really not a lot of growth agriculture. There used to be a ton of mango farming and that we had a lot of fair trade mangoes, fair trade fruits and vegetables. We are a fair trade factory, too, because of the way that we operate. But, yeah, there's not a lot. I mean, what did they say, the gdp? I think the biggest thing was donations, and Western Union was like, the number one. Wow.
- [38:28]
A
So sad to hear. You know, I'm really, really sad, but I do admire that you are going in there. I can't wrap my mind around doing what you're doing, but, I mean, it is. It's fascinating for me to hear what you're doing and what you're working at accomplishing. Now, you said earlier that, you know, good. Good news is, is that you're positioned well, you're kind of entrenched in it. And as things turn around, do you see some light at the end of the tunnel?
- [38:57]
B
I mean, I have to. Otherwise there's no reason to keep going.
- [39:02]
A
Okay, they'll light at the end of the tunnel. Oh, it's a Train. Oh, damn it.
- [39:06]
B
Yeah. Like it's so far. I mean, I mean the first year after the assassination we thought surely this is going to happen. And then there's, you know, there's this hype that the, that Canada and the U.S. are sending in the Kenyans and they're going to, you know, do a force against us and then this is going to happen. Now the US has just sent three, three submarines to or three, three ships to the coast of Haiti and that's going to do something. So we try to be pragmatic about peace. Like will it come there's. For all these years, four years later, I don't know who wins and who loses anymore by Haiti being the way it is. But I think, I don't think Haiti will be a failed state. I don't think we're the next Somalia. I think that we will pull and rise through this.
- [39:50]
A
So you were saying that you're kind of, your job is sales. So are you doing sales initiatives in terms of the product that Daman is producing and are you reaching out to big box store type you mentioned? I don't remember the Nordstrom. Yeah, Nordstrom. So are you reaching out, is that kind of part of what you do on a day to day basis as well as you're making those calls and trying to pitch your product and get them to pay attention and you know,
- [40:24]
B
shows and be in the street all that stuff, you know, for, for the handbags and small other goods that we export. It is literally that kind of sales job for the school shoes. It's reaching out to like the churches, missions, NGOs, people who are still working in Haiti who are typically supplying uniforms and school shoes to Haitian children. Like you know, eventually when the government becomes stable, I would love to be part of like the minister of Health and look at how school, how shoes on children feet can ensure that they don't get soil borne illnesses and work with the Ministry of Education and show how school shoes are a part of ensuring that children attend school. All those things will come someday, I hope and be part of our school shoe strategy. But for now it's a little bit more localized.
- [41:09]
A
Got it. Now where does your husband fit in this overarching puzzle that you've got going on and trying to bring this all together.
- [41:17]
B
Yeah. Well, first of all, we met in Haiti 16 years ago and you know, I was going to tell you the story of when I was in one of my really dark times and not I felt so guilty, like I truly couldn't eat, like I felt so guilty. He was the one that really pulled it into me and said, you better start eating. Like I don't care if it's a tomato and an avocado, but you are going to eat because you know you got important work to do here. And so he was really the one that helped pull me out a lot of dark spaces. And he's an interesting guy. He is amazing military man who. He was former British special forces in the SAS and now he's on a television show and he's kind of grown this incredible platform and he uses that platform for good and for philanthropic work. So he is the ambassador to our charity, always speaking about education and job training in Haiti. But then also he, we. We produced a line together of men's leather goods to sell through dome. And so he, you know, he's just very, very supportive and very active in our business in Haiti. So he definitely has his own job and trajectory and work. He's still shooting those shows. So he's filming a third of the year. But when he's not filming, he's definitely working on philanthropic endeavors and Haiti being one of the most important.
- [42:35]
A
So in your own evolution, Julie, we talk about as a young woman growing up and just kind of the drive for you to support and do what you do as you. As you've kind of evolved. You actually talked about your book started out as you journaling and kind of writing and you go on this journey is part of your own journey is in your own, we'll call it your own personal development, your own. Because when I look at what I refer to as self mastery, this is different than mindset. I think that self mastery. I differentiate between mindset and self mastery. Mindset is how do you deal with things outside of you. Mastery for me is how do you deal with all of the things that we deal with internally, you know, to, to build, to build that resilience, for example, or to handle the challenges that we face. And who are we being in the context of the challenges that we face, who are we being as leaders in these challenging circumstances and challenging circumstances in business are pretty normal. You. You put it on steroids like you, you bucket. I'm going in anyways, like, you know, like. Which to me is like, okay, but how much of the. That kind of work have you done over the years? Is that just part of what you do or is. Are you just kind of running kind of go by gut feel on a day to day and women's intuition or whatever you want to call it. How do you. How do you operate in that space, Julie, in your own development? We'll call it self mastery. Because I would consider that, that whether you do it intentionally or by accident, there's a lot of that that, you know, really represents what you're doing and who you are, who you have to be.
- [44:20]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think there's, there's. That's a great question, because it's kind of multifaceted. So from like, like an education standpoint, I went back to school in 2016 and got my master's and, you know, at my MBA, because I was running a business. So no longer was I, you know, just this nonprofit, philanthropic type person. I was running a business, so went, literally would fly from Haiti to Orlando to go to Rollins College every other weekend. I mean, it was insane. And I remember one day I was in an economics class, and I was just staring at the professor, not blinking, and tears were rolling down my eyes. I don't even know what the guy was saying, but, like, I just remember being so overwhelmed at, you know, my life and what I, and what I was responsible for here and doing the. And, you know, so God only knows how I got my mba, but that happened. But then, I mean, even other things of, you know, seeking counseling when I needed it, you know, when times were tough. I mean, being a part of living in a country where, you know, really bad things happen to people all the time and, and suffering and poverty and these, these things that, you know, you shouldn't have to, that no person should have to suffer through, but being a part of so many of these things, so seeking, seeking help when I needed it, you know, making that time for myself. So it kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier. Being really open with my team. I, I, it's like I do not make decisions unanimously anymore. This everything is. Because I really feel like if you don't listen to the people on the ground and the people experiencing certain things, you are going to miss out on a lot and you're going to make a lot more mistakes. So it's just really, I think everything is very conversational. So sometimes I feel like my leadership style is slower than other CEOs, but I feel like it's more intentional. And I do think that's why we're still open. Whereas a lot of my colleagues around me that opened businesses when I did are no longer there.
- [46:08]
A
I'm curious, just, you went back to school for an mba, which is great, but, I mean, you're getting to me, you're getting an education Real time. So I'm asking this just out of curiosity. Did that MBA really make a difference for how you looked at your business or how you do business? I mean, I'm sure you took some things away, but jump into the deep end of the pool and start to swim? I mean, ultimately that's what it is. Did that education really make a difference? I'm just totally curious about it.
- [46:38]
B
No, honestly, it is an amazing question and I will tell you the truth. I think what made the biggest impact was some of the people that I met. So, like there's even a story in my book about a gentleman, Tadar, who was an education person. And I remember the cool thing about getting an MBA when you run a business is you can bring in real life scenarios and then like kind of juxtapose them against some of these like book studies. And I remember getting in fights with people. I'm like, that's not really how it happens on the ground. That's not really what happened. You know, and getting into these arguments. But, but the people, some, some people in my cohort were so impressed or moved or whatever it was by, by the business, they really wanted to jump in and help. And so one gentleman really helped develop a new program. It's called the Domain Academy. And it was kind of like this transition for young graduates into business because we don't have internships and apprenticeships and things like that in Haiti. It's kind of like a foreign thing and so helped us develop one within our own system, within our own ecosystem. So it was more about the people that you meet and the connections versus like the actual like mb. Yeah, because I think I was too, like you said in it to focus on fake scenarios.
- [47:42]
A
Do you have you surrounded yourself with. I'm looking a little bit at structure. This is my own business brain kind of kicking in is, is have you surrounded yourself with, I'll call them mentors or coaches or an advisory board that supports you on your journey or are they looking at you going, Julie, you're nuts, I can't be part of this. Like, where does that go?
- [48:02]
B
I think, yeah. And most, to be honest, it's mostly my investors. I have really incredible investors who, who I, who I kind of serve as advisors. To me, I don't have the traditional advisory board for my business because, you know, when people do kind of come in, most people, you know, will look at, look at, look at either, you know, we are a very. What's the word? Not stable business. You know, like we. There, there are any day you Know, something could happen. And so I think that kind of scares people. I think that it's more of an emotional place where people will come in for a season and maybe do something like design a bag or help with. Help with a certain part. But I can't. Nobody can really stay the long. The long haul because it is just too exhausting, you know, it's just. It's just way too exhausting. So my investors have been my. My really. My background.
- [48:55]
A
Julie, how the hell do you sleep at night? I mean, as a business owner myself for over 40 years now, I mean, I think about the sleepless nights when you go through the challenges that you go through in business and, you know, whether it be competitors or industry or politics or economy, payroll. I mean, gosh, you know, there's something. And that's. In First World that's like, you know, we don't have a problem, you know, relatively speaking. So how the heck do you sleep at night? Like, how do you condition yourself that, okay, I gotta just get some. I don't know, like, how do you make that happen?
- [49:30]
B
It took years. Probably took a decade. I think for the first 10 years I didn't sleep and I would just. I would operate with, like, ulcers and, you know, and just kind of always operating on empty. It's. It's funny, like, people who have worked with me, so I. A lot of team members have been. Been there for 16 years. So we've had a team that has been there a long time. And people will tell funny stories about how I used to have this vein that would pop through my head when anybody talks about money because we're always so financially unstable. So we're like, oh, we need money for new chair. I mean, this vein would come through. And. And I think I've had to evolve over the years for personal reasons too. For my own personal health. I suffered a lot of health issues a few years ago. And I. And it was. You know, the doctors are just like, you have got to de. Stress when it's like, how do you de. Stress running a fashion business in the developing world? Like, tell me how that happens when you have a staff of 50. You know, like, what. How does that happen? And there's this pressure to grow because, I mean, sometimes I think to myself, 16 years, and you've only created 50 jobs. Like, get it. You know, I mean, I should have 5,000 people working at this factory by now, you know, and I. It's. It's just, you know, so there's always that, like, you're not that in the back of your head, you're not good enough, you haven't done enough. You know, I mean, all of that still exists and it lives there. But if, but I also, like I said, if I. If I do live in that place and I'm getting these really dark holes, nobody benefits from that. And then I just can't work, you know, so you just gotta. It's just gotta keep. And then. And also I have a really great team and like everybody makes a lot of jokes. Like, I mean, believe it or not, like the sense of humor, I guess maybe they call it dark humor that comes out of these type of circumstances. Circumstances. We, we thrive on that and you know, we're grateful for it so that we can laugh together and celebrate the wins together. And you know, then it's little things like I got an email yesterday from a guy who bought his bag. A guy from Switzerland bought his. Bought his wife a bag. And he sent me a photo and he said, from Haiti to Switzerland. And it was a picture of her wearing our bag. And it's like it does matter to people too. So it's not just for the jobs that we create for ourselves, but it is for other people to say, I am so proud to own this bag. I'm so proud I contributed to this. Like, that's the type of global impact I want our brand to have.
- [51:45]
A
I just love it. I'm like, this is probably one of the best interviews I've had and I've had hundreds of them. But for me, this really lands is so powerful in every aspect of what I believe, not only in business, but in tenacity and who we are as leaders. And I mean you just take it to a whole new level. And I really do admire that. I think it's. I don't necessarily understand the psychology of it, but I do admire it. But I also something that you said and I'm a big believer because I've always been very health conscious and I've lost two sisters to cancer over the years. And so health has always been kind of there for me. But I had an early realization and I think you could probably speak to it very, very well, which is I believe that our physical health is often. And I could go extreme and go always a manifestation of whatever we've got going on mentally. That's a big statement for most. So I don't need to unpack that. But for you, I mean you really. There is that must be that realization that our mental emotional state kind of shows up physically in the illnesses, you know, our, our bodies push back, our brains push back. What's your thoughts on that?
- [53:05]
B
Yeah, I would say from my personal experience, that's 100% true. You know, so I struggled with infertility and for nine years, you know, we tried everything. And literally the doctors just kept saying, as long as you continue to live this lifestyle, I don't think we'll see a change. And it was. And I just kept thinking to myself, I work hard enough, I will will it hard enough. I always make things happen. I will make this happen too. And that wasn't our story. And I do believe that my body has taken, you know, the physical impacts of, I mean, the multitude of illnesses I've had. Just from like being in Haiti and living in Haiti to, to then like the stress and the. And the fear, you know, living in fear. A lot. Like what happened? What if somebody gets hurt? What if the gangs come? I mean, I mean, I had to put together a 25 page plan on what to do if the gangs come into the factory. And then we had to like, have a. We had to put together a rooms if the. The team had to sleep there at night because if the gangs come and how to lock yourselves in. I mean, just things that I never in my wildest dreams imagined that I would be putting together a plan like that. But this is the life that I've chosen and I couldn't be more grateful for it. And something that I've thought, you know, a lot about, especially like, you know, writing the book From Lost to Legacy. I think a lot of people think of legacy as their children, and it's what I. What I would have, you know, would have thought for myself too. And then I just had to kind of reframe what the legacy would look like for me, because it's not going to be that. So it's more about, you know, this other family that I get to be the matriarch of because we've chosen each other and we've chosen to do this together. And so even that in this last year, I've found peace and health with. With that situation in my life, you know, so it's like everything has been about Haiti. Everything has been about demand and the business until this challenge came up up for me and my family. And so it took. That was another decade. It took to. To finally come to the place where and that. And I think that's kind of where even in business or in your personal life or anything, it will take its time to, you know, to get to the Place where you say, okay, this is what it is, and I can either wallow in it or I can press forward. And the people of Haiti, once again, they always press forward. And I want to be like the people I met in Haiti, and I want to always press forward, no matter what the circumstances.
- [55:24]
A
What inspires you to continue the grind? Like, is it. Is it literally just the difference and the impact that you're making in Haiti with your team? Because, you know, you're not making huge financial gains. I mean, you're not, you know, you're not a classic CEO making millions or hundreds of thousands or multi billions or whatever it is. So, you know, the financial component of it, you know, certainly there may be a future dream, a future state of that. But I mean, like I say, most people would get. Fold their tent. And so is there a degree of just what you feel in terms of the. Not just the responsibility? You're not like. What I'm saying is that I guess there's that component to it. I owe it to these people, and I want to support these people. But you really have to, like, that has to be really at your core that you want to support that team and do what you're doing in terms of producing goods and supporting adding some GDP to Haiti. Is there something there that you would share, some insights that you've learned over the years?
- [56:42]
B
You know, after the earthquake, I think they, you know, so they. They've always called Haiti the Republic of NGOs. So, you know, there's nonprofits for days, there's tons of churches, all denominations, all factions. All these people want to do things. And so after the earthquake, I think they said something like 1100 nonprofits opens and maybe like, I don't know, a dozen or so businesses. And you would watch. I mean, I watched for years and years and years, people come in with these great ideas, great, you know, things start something, get people excited about it. Then it was too hard, they'd pack up and they'd leave over and over and over. And I'm talking everything from like starting orphanages to so then eventually abandoning children to starting schools to start. I mean, everything. And I remember when I met my first business partner, Jolina. She's one of the first women that I met in Haiti who we started this company with. I just. I told her, I said, no matter what happens, I will not leave unless you ask me to. Because to me, I would have rather never started anything than to start something and not finish it and not see it through. And I don't know if that's something that I was born with, or watching my parents, or watching all these other people start things, and then seeing the havoc that was left behind when you do that. And I don't want to be a part of that. So that's why I stay and that's why I keep going.
- [58:04]
A
Okay, so one of the things that this is kind of funny in a way is my wife Stephanie. One of the things that, you know, over the years is that she's been a woman in a man's world. You know, she was actually a skating coach, paid skating coach for NHL hockey teams over the years, like totally traditional man's world. And she, of course, had to go and face all of those things that, you know, go on in, you know, male dominated worlds and sport and all the rest of it. And kudos to her. And I know that as her husband, I knew how I had to support her through a lot of stuff that goes on. And I think to myself, gosh, that's nothing compared to what you've been facing as a woman in a man's world. On top of all of the, I'm sure, cultural views of women in that world, how have you been able to kind of deal with that? And yeah, let's start there and then I know where I want to go, but I'd like to hear from you.
- [59:09]
B
So from a cultural perspective, you know, that is why there's a Haitian leadership team. And I'm not like this because there was so much I didn't understand. So I remember in our charity, like, we started this education, this education program, and the kids had everything I thought they needed. They had their school books, they had this, they had that. Everything's going. So why were they still failing? I couldn't understand it. It. So year two, I just went into the classrooms and tried to like, okay, I understand. So in Haiti, there's two official languages, French and Creole, and they were teaching in Creole and the homes, they were speaking in creel. French was kind of known as like, more the elite language. But the national exam was in French. So the kids were like, it's like asking to run a race on crutches, you know, like, it's like they were not given the tools because they can't speak or write in French. And so after that day, we put in mandatory French training in our programs. And the next year, 100% of kids passed because it was just this misunderstanding of what was needed. And so I learned that, like, again, I wouldn't have time to do everything. So it was all this local knowledge that was around me that I really, you know, like, just honed into. Like, I realized I knew nothing and had to. Had to just learn from all the people around me, and that's how we were going to be successful. So, again, like I said, it's a slow process, and that's probably why we only have 50 employees and not 50,000, you know, because it is this, like, slow process of learning and doing things together. But on the other hand, I also sometimes think that's what kept us safe, you know, not growing too quickly with
- [60:40]
A
my experience with Stephanie and what she was going through in that man's world. And then you described a little bit about your husband. Military, pragmatic, kind of get shit done doing what he's doing, the relationship that you have to have with him, because he's got to look at it from the view of a man going, okay, you know, my wife's going into harm's way. She's trying to, you know, push against this cart. She keeps pushing against the cart, whether it's moving or not. And you just keep putting your shoulder into it, leaning into it. The level of understanding by your husband and has to be pretty epic. I'm sure that you've had your challenges along the way in terms of him questioning or. Or like, where do you. I know sometimes with Stephanie, it's like, where do you say, okay, keep going, I got you, or the support is okay, you know, maybe we just need to shut this thing down. Like, so at some point, you know, within your relationship, that's gotta be such an important part of what you're doing and. And him as your husband, supporting and you guys supporting each other. Is there. Is there what. What insights would you give somebody in a relationship of how you guys have dealt with it? I'm sure you butt heads and you do all the things that couples do. You know, there's no illusion of anything. But tell me a little bit about your relationship that way.
- [62:06]
B
You know, I think if we hadn't met in Haiti, it might not have worked worked if. If somebody hadn't seen me from the beginning, you know, going from sitting on the floor cutting things out with razor blades to, like, owning this, you know, this big factory. I. I don't think that they would understand me as a human being. And, like, why. Why it's so important. But I remember one time. Yeah. Billy, saying, oh, you're not. You're not going into Haiti. It's too dangerous. And I was like, are you. Are you trying to tell me what to do. I was like, wait, hold on. And. But then, you know, when the gang and I. And I did have to check myself, because I first thought, who the hell are you to tell me where to go? But then I thought, oh, you are my husband, and there is a gang war going on. And so, like, the last trip to Haiti, you know, he was there with. You know, we had armed. I mean, it was actually terrible. You know, you had armed security and bulletproof vests and bulletproof doors and you had to change hotels every night because, you know, so. And because he is a military guy, he put down this, like, safety route and, like, you know, made it. Made it possible for me and my colleague Sarah to go in. And so it was because I think he had to realize it wasn't going to be like, oh, Julie's not going. It's going to be like, okay, Julie's going. How do I use my skills and talents to, like, keep her safe? Because this is what I do. So it has been a meeting in the minds. But, oh, yeah, there is some definite fighting about it because he's scared. You know, it is also, at some point. Yeah, when is enough going to be enough? And I said, well, when the company is no longer profitable or, you know, it does. It does, or they burn the factory to the ground or whatever, then that might be it. But as long as there is air in my lungs and the company is still surviving, that we still have people who are buying our product, we will keep going. And that is what he married, and he married into that. So he didn't just marry me, he married my business.
- [63:52]
A
Yeah, for sure. As you were kind of talking about your book and legacy, I think about what you shared in terms of the education of these children. To me, that is legacy. You know, the impact, the ripple effect, if you will, the difference that you're making in the lives of these individuals. I mean, that's legacy to me. That's how I kind of see some things. As you were describing it, that truly is the legacy is the difference that you're making in people's lives. It's a little bit of like, you know, the starfish. You know, the starfish story. Right. You know, you make a difference, you know, to that starfish. And so, you know, for me, that it is. It is interesting as I listen is that, gosh, there's so much legacy in this whole story and what you're doing and the impact you're having on people and the impact that those individuals will have. So it's so Exponential in what you're doing. That's, that's how I see it. For whatever, for whatever value that opinion
- [64:56]
B
is, it actually means a lot. Thank you.
- [64:58]
A
You know, I think, I think it's pretty, pretty epic. So what do you, what do you see for the future of your business and what you're doing? I mean you're, you're, you're, you're kind of grinding it through. You see some, maybe some green shoots here and there. You know, the possibilities and the potential of going. What just, is it just the, the, the vision overall, staying committed to that vision. You're going to keep pushing that cart, you know that you're making a difference to that team. You're not going to ever quit, you're not going to give up. What are some of the things strategically that you're thinking about as you kind of hang on to this business and try and grow and expand on the business?
- [65:37]
B
You know, one of the most instrumental things that has happened like with Nordstrom's We3X sales, like that was a huge, a huge win for us because you know, I don't have the marketing budgets to compete in the fashion industry and all these things. But when Nordstrom took us on, it was like all of a sudden millions of eyes got on our products. And it wasn't just about a bag being made in Haiti or a fair trade bag. It was like, I like this bag. And to me having somebody buy a bag from Dumay that they like is just as big of a compliment as buying it. Because the story mattered to them. You know, the fact they like and honor our work. So trying to get into more big box stores is definitely part of the strategy. Also our small boutiques, you know, it's just part of growing the brand. I mean, I want to be a household name. You know, I think what Blake Masins did with Tom shoes was amazing. You know, he might have gotten a lot of slack for what he did, but Blake said, I want to put shoes on kids feet. So the One for One program, although you know, like it's a very controversial thing, like sure it did some damage, but that, but what he did, his mission was to put shoes on kids feet. My mission is to create economic freedom for Haitian people. That means jobs. So I don't want, I don't want somebody else buying shoes to put on my artisans kids feet. They want to buy their own kids shoes. They want to have the economic freedom to do all of those things. So that's why I want to sell as much as I can. You know, handbags and shoes to people who have disposable income. And I want to create things that they want.
- [67:10]
A
Well, I think it's, you know, what you said around Nordstrom is really cool because they're not only buying the bags. Yes, there's. I'm sure there's at some level the buyer or the team or whoever, the executives that made those decisions. But at the end of the day, they're not buying it and buying that bag. And because it's in Haiti and it's supporting whatever it's supporting, it's like, no, it's not. I'm gonna, I'm gonna use this bag. It's like, I'm not putting it on my shelf, you know, it's not, you know, it's. It's. I'm not doing it because it's just supporting Haitians. It's actually a great bag and it looks great. Just out of curiosity, price points for some of your stuff. I'm like, where does it sit in the, in the scope of.
- [67:50]
B
So, you know what's so interesting? So in the fair trade world, we're one of the highest priced luxury brands. So our bags are anywhere from like 130 to $350. Leather, genuine leather. Fair trade bag right now at Nordstrom's. When we first got in, they actually asked us to increase prices because we were one of the lowest priced artisan brands. And so it was like, they're like, is this really genuine leather? I'm like, yes, it's genuine leather. And they're like, how do you keep your prices so low? And it's like, because the audience we had before was a spare trade audience that wasn't used to these price points. Well, now that we're at Nordstrom's, it's like, oh, wait, I've been looking for a brand that is, you know, high quality, unique looking, genuine leather. But like, maybe isn't like big logos all over the place, you know. So it's been, it's been a really interesting thing of where do we live as a brand? And so we're still evolving. Like, who, which. Who is our main customer and how do we get to her? So it's just been. Nordstrom has just been amazing. So I want to. I want Bloom and I want Macy's, and I want all of them. I want them all and I want to be successful in them, you know, So I want to figure out, how do we speak to these different types of women that we didn't have access to for the last 15 years. So that's. There's a learning curve.
- [69:05]
A
Right now you use the term fair trade. I'm familiar with it, but give me a little bit of notes on fair trade, what it is, what does it mean?
- [69:13]
B
Yeah, Fair trade verification took us over a year to get. You have to go and you have to. Your whole entire supply chain is looked at through the Fair Trade association. And so making sure that you are using environmentally friendly raw materials, that you're paying decent living wages to your craftspeople, that you're disposing of your materials properly. There's all these fair trade principles that are both ethical and environmental that you have to stand up to. And it is a very long process. And I was really annoyed during the year that I was going through because I was like, we've been doing this thing, stuff, you know, for a decade. But then I realized I was so grateful that it is so hard to get the verification, because it actually matters. So now I know whenever I see that fair trade verification, I was like, okay, I know this is a brand I can trust. So it's a, it's kind of a relentless process, but, but, but a good one.
- [70:05]
A
A good one, but it's a huge stamp. It's like, boom, you know, like, is a statement of, of what your mission is, what you, what you guys stand for. I, I, you know, so based on that, I can understand why it would be great to have that. And of course, to a store like Nordstrom's, it would probably be a big deal. That means a lot to them for their brand.
- [70:25]
B
Yeah, definitely. And I mean, that's, that's. We only got, I believe we only got into Nordstrom because we had that. We, because we are fair trade. And they wanted to have fair trade brands. So otherwise why would they choose Dumas? So it's the certification. And this verification has, has, you know, changed a lot for us. So we're glad that, glad we did that paperwork.
- [70:43]
A
I want to get a little bit into the minutiae because now I'm really curious. My business brain kicks in a little bit. So is all of your distribution out of Haiti, or is there an opportunity to produce goods in Haiti, ship them to the US and then have secondary distribution from there? Like where you're selling into the US or how does that model work?
- [71:03]
B
Yeah, we have a warehouse in Florida, so we do have a center in Florida. So we warehouse all of our products because, yeah, a lot of people, people can't trust, you know, that their products are going to come out on time and that this is going to happen. And so we have to really plan in advance because there is. This shipment is canceled, this air, you know, because there is still cargo going in and out, but it's very unpredictable. So we have to. We have to plan far in advance, which is, you know, expensive and annoying, but it's part of doing business in Haiti.
- [71:34]
A
Wow. I love it, Julie. As we start to wind down and before I kind of get into the next. Next kind of part of the. This has been. I. I've just loved this conversation for me, anyway, so I hope our listeners do. I'm sure they will. It's a. It really is a great story, by the way, so I, I'm. I admire what you're doing. Is there anything that you would want to make sure that listeners know that we haven't talked about, that we haven't touched on? Julie?
- [72:01]
B
You know, the only thing that. That is so important to me that, you know, when people do kind of hear a little bit of our story or start to think about people in other types of situations is truly how powerful their purchases are. You know, I. I don't know if people realize, you know, that these dollars circulate globally, every dollar that you spend, and so it truly matters how you purchase. And. And something I like to talk about, like in fashion in particular, is, you know, there's this wave of fast fashion, and a lot of young women will buy, you know, a handbag, and it will break or it will rip because it's not real leather. It's this or it's that. And so over the course of a year, maybe she buys six or seven bags. So realizing that, you know, those six or seven bags equals the cost of one fair trade bag, you know, just trying to get people to start thinking about those dollars will circulate in an entirely different way and empower the buyer, I think, in an entirely different way, because you start when you can just buy anything you want all the time, and it's just disposable. You kind of think of life as disposable versus, you know, having value. And everything that you own and touch and buy and wear has value. And I just think that there's a lot of beauty in that. And I think, you know, women buy things to look and feel beautiful, and so helping them reach that is something that I'm passionate about.
- [73:22]
A
You know, I love that. And there's something else that has kind of occurred for me is that, you know, one of the challenges I know for myself is that we see these charities and there's so many great charities out there are great causes. What we don't know and what we can't tell is what goes on in behind the scenes, you know, to your point, you know, so we, we donate a dollar and where does that, I mean, how many times does that dollar get cut up before it goes to where it's intended to go to? We don't always have the details of that. And so that means extra diligence and saying, okay, got it, you got a great charity. Let me unpack that a little bit. You know, what I like about what you're doing is that, that you're being, you know, it's straight up, I'm employing people. You know, we are a for profit business. I'm running it and operating a business. But the dollars that you're spending have an impact in an environment and in a, in a country that really makes a difference to them. And so that's a great story. I'd rather personally that lands for me better than, okay does how much bureaucracy is involved in this charity that the dollars don't actually get to the end result. So, you know, I think that's an
- [74:30]
B
important paycheck, is a paycheck. And when you buy something that provides somebody a paycheck where, you know, it's not slave labor that, you know, it's an actual paycheck versus, you know, because sometimes people will say, well, how is it possible to spend $5 on a T shirt because people aren't paid properly? That's, that's how you, you know, and they were probably working in horrendous, terrible conditions. So it's like, you have to think about like, like literally the only way these things are possible is because we allow them to be possible.
- [75:00]
A
And hence the fair trade stamp. You know, it all, it all goes there. Well, you've been generous with your time. I'd like to wind down. We have a segment that, you know, I call rapid fire questions that are rarely very rapid, but sometimes they are just intended to be a little bit light and fun. So are you ready for a few rapid fire questions?
- [75:20]
B
All right, bring it on.
- [75:21]
A
It's going to warm me up a little bit. Apple or Android?
- [75:25]
B
Oh, Apple.
- [75:26]
A
Oh, Apple. And you got a whole Apple ecosystem, so that makes sense. Favorite genre of music, Favorite song, favorite band? Are you. Do you have time to listen to music?
- [75:40]
B
You know, it's funny, I love music because I'm a ballet dancer by trade and so. And even to this day I still dance a little bit. But. Okay, so my Favorite song is Calm down. Calm Down. You know that song?
- [75:54]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [75:55]
B
Okay, so I can't think of it right now, but my. But my. Definitely, like, top 40s. I love to dance and, like, yeah, get out of my head.
- [76:04]
A
Favorite movie.
- [76:06]
B
Viva la Bella. Life is beautiful.
- [76:09]
A
Ah, nice. Is there a book that really was impactful in your life or one that you think is a must read for many?
- [76:18]
B
The Soul of Money by Lynne Twist. She's the one that, yes, definitely made me think about capitalism in a different way and the power of money and how we invest our dollars. So. Great book.
- [76:32]
A
Favorite swear word?
- [76:33]
B
Oh, the F bomb.
- [76:35]
A
You F bomb? Yeah, it's good. But I often, often share that I have some guests that they. They actually look at me quizzically and go, I don't swear.
- [76:45]
B
Oh, look, I'm married to a Brit, and British people can string together, like, nine swear words into one sentence. It's like. It's like a skill and a talent that they have and one I have picked up on. So I have to really, like, try to keep myself, you know, poised doing podcasts, but my British side doesn't come out.
- [77:02]
A
Yeah. Depending on the guests, we can get a little offside here, too, sometimes. If there is a God. What do you want to hear God say when you get to the gates?
- [77:11]
B
Oh, that you did well.
- [77:14]
A
What are you grateful for today, Julie?
- [77:17]
B
I'm really grateful that I got to share my story with you because it was a really fun conversation, and I really feel like you care about what we're doing in Haiti, and that means a lot to me, so thank you.
- [77:28]
A
I am so grateful to have had the opportunity to have this conversation. I am with all my guests. I always am, because here you're. There's so many things and remarkable people in this world, but I'll tell you what, this story and what you're doing is gotta be. It's probably the top one of interest for me because it just involves every aspect of how I'm wired for business, but you just take it to a whole new level in terms of the contribution and the difference that you're making in the world. I think the last thing you need to worry about ever is legacy and exponential ripple effect of what you're doing and the impact that you're having in a crazy world in Haiti, it's like, whoa, crazy. I loved it. And I just want to say thank you so much and what a great opportunity and story that you've shared with us today. So thank you very much.
- [78:22]
B
No, thank you, Patrick. I appreciate it.
- [78:25]
A
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening. If you found value in the podcast, please take the time to rate and review and share with others. Share with your friends as it is my goal to always improve and to provide the highest value for you, the listener. If you have any comments, suggestions or questions you'd like answered, please email me@ceoraincanada.com that's CEORinCanada. I look forward to hearing from you. And until next time. Patrick oh.