Mindset Matters - Episode #158 - Who Am I If I’m Not That? Rediscovering Purpose Beyond Identity

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Everyday Millionaire – "Mindset Matters" (Episode #158)

Title: Who Am I If I’m Not That? Rediscovering Purpose Beyond Identity

Release Date: November 7, 2024
Host/Author: Patrick Francey
Guest: Stephanie Hanlon Franci, Olympic Mental Performance Coach

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Introduction

In Episode #158 of The Everyday Millionaire podcast, titled "Who Am I If I’m Not That? Rediscovering Purpose Beyond Identity," host Patrick Francey engages in a profound dialogue with his wife, Stephanie Hanlon Franci. Together, they explore the intricate relationship between personal identity and societal roles, emphasizing the importance of self-discovery beyond professional or social titles.

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Key Themes and Discussions

1. The Central Question: Who Am I If I’m Not That?

Patrick introduces the episode by highlighting a common societal tendency to equate self-worth with professional identity. He poses the critical question: "Who am I if I'm not that?" This question delves into the challenges individuals face when transitioning out of defined roles—be it leaving a career, adjusting to an empty nest, or retiring.

Notable Quote:
Patrick [00:54]: "Who am I if I'm not a parent in house, in other words, empty nesters. And then they lose a little bit of that identity because they're not hauling kids around..."

2. Identity and Life Transitions

Stephanie expands on the notion of identity, discussing how deeply individuals can be "locked into" their roles. She emphasizes the necessity of self-esteem and confidence to navigate life changes and to let go of old identities to embrace new eras.

Notable Quote:
Stephanie [02:04]: "Am I locked into that identity as I go through the changes in the stages of life?"

3. The Parable of the Hidden Treasure

Patrick shares a compelling parable to illustrate the episode's core message. He narrates the story of a clay-covered Buddha statue in Bangkok’s Wat Tramit temple, which, upon removing the layers of clay, revealed a solid gold statue beneath. This metaphor underscores the idea that true identity lies beneath the external roles and titles we adopt.

Notable Quote:
Patrick [07:03]: "These become our external identities... Our true selves are beneath all of that. And there's a lot of gold in who we really are if we knock away the clay."

4. The Impact of Social Media and External Validation

Stephanie discusses the pressures exerted by social media, especially on younger generations and public figures like athletes. She highlights how the constant need for validation through likes and comments can distort self-identity and lead to mental health challenges.

Notable Quote:
Stephanie [10:10]: "I find them comparing themselves to these snapshots in time on social media... it's so damaging."

5. Authenticity and Courage

Both hosts stress the importance of being authentic and true to oneself. They argue that authenticity requires courage, as it often involves vulnerability and the fear of rejection. Embracing one's true self can lead to deeper, more meaningful connections and personal fulfillment.

Notable Quote:
Patrick [28:57]: "There's a conversation that has to be had, I think, in terms of identity and authenticity."

6. Practical Advice for Self-Discovery

Patrick and Stephanie offer actionable strategies for listeners seeking to redefine their identities beyond their current roles:

• Reflect on Core Values: Identify what truly matters to you outside of your profession or social status.
• Engage in Authentic Conversations: Instead of asking "What do you do?" consider questions like "What do you love to do?" to uncover deeper personal interests and passions.
• Embrace Change: Recognize that evolving and growing is a natural part of life, and it’s okay to outgrow certain roles or relationships.

Notable Quote:
Patrick [26:48]: "Reflect and say, are you operating on top of some fear that you may lose identity?"

7. Supporting Others Through Transitions

Stephanie shares her experiences working with athletes transitioning out of their sports careers. She emphasizes the importance of helping individuals see themselves as more than their athletic identity, fostering a sense of self beyond professional achievements.

Notable Quote:
Stephanie [21:53]: "You're not a hockey player. You're not a figure skater. You're a human being who plays hockey."

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Insights and Conclusions

Throughout the episode, Patrick and Stephanie underscore the critical need to detach self-worth from professional and societal roles. By embracing authenticity and fostering self-awareness, individuals can rediscover their purpose and identity beyond external labels. The parable of the Buddha statue serves as a powerful reminder that beneath the surface roles lies our true, invaluable selves.

Final Takeaway:
"Who you are is not defined by what you do, but by who you are being in the context of your life."

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Final Thoughts

"Mindset Matters" invites listeners to embark on a journey of self-discovery and personal growth. By challenging conventional notions of identity and encouraging authentic living, Patrick Francey and Stephanie Hanlon Franci provide valuable insights for anyone seeking to redefine their sense of self and achieve lasting fulfillment.

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For More Information:
To delve deeper into topics of personal growth and wealth creation, subscribe to The Everyday Millionaire podcast and connect with Patrick Francey at [e-mail].

Transcript

[A]

Hi there and welcome to this episode of the Everyday Millionaire Mindset Matters podcast where I'm joined by my wife, Olympic mental performance coach Stephanie Hanlon. Franci. In these episodes, Stephanie and I have a conversation about the different aspects of what we refer to as Mindset Matters because we believe that for those who are awake, we are living in and through the most impactful time in history. Your view of the world is the filter for how you will experience the evolution and changing dynamics of it. Our intention is to provide you with ideas, nutritious food for thought, and some tools that you can use to help you in being your greatest self and living your best life. Listen in. Enjoy. Here we are. Stephanie. Mindset Matters.

[B]

Hey, hon.

[A]

So we got a, I think a really interesting topic, so I think we'll maybe title it who am I if I'm not that? This is all about identity and who we are and how much in society today we actually identify with what we do. You know, how often do you meet somebody for the first time and you ask the question, so what do you do? You know, it becomes that kind of go to question. And when we look at what happens when people transition out of a career, out of a lifestyle, perhaps they were a parent, they're no longer a parent. Who am I if I'm not a parent in house, in other words, empty nesters. And then they lose a little bit of that identity because they're not hauling kids around, they don't have kids coming through the house. Whatever the story is, or a change of career, sale of a business, there's all sorts of scenarios that all of a sudden you find yourself, okay, well, who am I if I'm not that? So that's kind of the conversation I want to get to today. And we can talk through it, any initial kind of talk you want to, you know, comments you want to make.

[B]

I think with identity, it really becomes a conversation not only about who am I if I'm not that, but am I locked into that identity as I go through the changes in the stages of life? And when we come to the end of one stage or an era and we open up to a new era, do we have the confidence and the self, I don't know, the self esteem to actually take a look at where we're at in our stage of life so that we can maybe let go some of the qualities or some of the expectations or some of the jobs and titles that we were so attached to in that particular identity. So I'd really like to dig into.

[A]

That as well, well, you know, I happened to run across. I did a little bit of research on this whole topic because, you know, for you and I, it's shown up in different scenarios over the years where we see people change, where we go through our own changes. I mean, we're pretty good with that. Like, we're not so attached to what we do, and so it doesn't land as hard. But in a recent conversation, comment that I came across was that it was in the UK and I don't remember the timeframe, so it's a little bit vague. But ultimately the premise is the same, which is when this person who's making the comment stated that in the time that her parents were retiring, the average lifespan of being in the retirement Mode was about 30 years. And so people lived a long time after they retired, and maybe they're retiring at 55, perhaps, who knows? But ultimately, and we even see it in our own parents that they retired and they were, you know, 20, 30 years as retired. Well, that status changed dramatically. And now what's happening is that people who are retiring in the uk, this was a stat, apparently it's dropped to eight years. So you and I have both witnessed it, we've seen it. And I'm sure that some of our listeners have somebody retires and then the next thing you know, they're dead. They die, and they die quickly or they die within a short period of time. You often hear the story, he had just retired or she had just retired and then had a heart attack or something went wrong. And ultimately that's happening more and more. So that was an interesting stat. But we've attached. We've seen over the years. It's just really, what. What the heck do I do if I'm not that career person? Maybe management team, maybe the president, maybe the owner of a business. And especially if there's any kind of, I would say, some public Persona with it, perhaps, where you're out there a little bit more. Look at some of these rock bands, and this is another anecdotal stat. We see all these old rock bands come back to life. They go on tour, they do their thing. And one guy says, well, it's nice to make a million bucks every so often, but to be honest with you, it's not about the money. It's about the fact that I need purpose. I need a reason to carry on. And so I was taking a shower where some of my best ideas come up. I'm sure that many people experience that. So here's the thing. Purpose people Passion. When you get into your years of slowing down, transitioning out of one career to another, I think those are three things that are really important.

[B]

I love that, you know, when you were saying that about, you know, people living 30 plus years past their retirement date and then it's dropped to eight.

[A]

Well, there is some of that too. And that's where you're seeing, you're seeing greeters at Walmart, so you're seeing greeters at, you know, whatever, Home Depot, and those are retired individuals or they're walking around the airports, you know, being an information source for confused travelers, which is great. It's awesome. So there it is, people, purpose, passion, and what we often see and we hear these conversations and you can't think about how many people continue to work in jobs that they don't really like, even though, but primarily because what would they do? Who would they be if they weren't that. So there's a lot of connection to that identity. So I don't want to beat it to death, but I've got a parable, of course, that I want to share, but kind of speaks to the identity conversation and food for thought for people who may be thinking about transitioning or who have become aware of how their identity is tied to who they think they are. So. Comments?

[B]

Well, I think the comment mostly would be what you just said is who we think we are. Who the heck do we think we are? And if we're so tied to that identity and we can't shift or see something else, it can cause a lot of stress. And I think where I see people shutting down after they, you know, some life change happens to them or they make a decision to, to move into a new direction, is that the stress of the life that starts to be, maybe softens or you start to release some of that stress and you start to look around and wake up to, you know, maybe I didn't have to be that assertive or maybe I didn't have to work 10, 12, 15 hours a day. You know, some people I know that have looked around at their life and go, where. Where'd my, where'd my spouse go? You know? So I think really it's important to.

[A]

Okay, so this is a parable. So you haven't heard this one. It goes like this. So several hundred years ago in the famous temple named Wat Tramit, I think that's pronounced right, it's in Bangkok. So there was this massive clay statue of a Buddha that had been sitting in a monastery for many, many years. Like it was Built several hundred years ago. And in 1965, people started to notice something. Now, the statue is just really simple. It was really ordina. It was just this clay statue. But over this many hundreds of years, it had started to become weathered and cracked. And the monks were walking by it every day, and people were walking by it. But one day one of them noticed that there was something shiny in the crack of the clay. So they're curious as to what the shine was all about, and they began to chip away at the statue. And what they soon uncovered in this clay Buddha statue was that it was actually made entirely of solid gold. So what had happened was a centuries, literally centuries earlier, monks had covered the statue in clay to hide its value from invaders which often came and would kind of pillage and do all the things that they do. And over time, what had happened over these centuries that everybody forgot about it, they'd forgotten about what the treasure was underneath this clay. And it was really only when they began to look beyond the external surface. That's the real moral of this parable, is when they looked beyond the external surface that they rediscovered its true. We would call it its hidden worth. So ultimately, this parable is intended to set the tone for our conversation that I want to have today about identity. Because like this solid gold Buddha, I think that we probably are all guilty of it, but many we witness it, we maybe don't see it as much in ourselves, but we unknowingly cover ourselves in, I guess we'll call it layers of the roles that we play. So our titles or our responsibilities or our identity as we see it, and we cover ourselves in that clay of, you know, if you use that metaphor. So these become our external identities. And they're like the. There would be similar to the Buddha with the clay. It protects us from being our most authentic selves or in lots of cases of helping us fit in. It's what allows us to fit in. It put on reality. Our true selves are beneath all of that. And there's a lot of value, there's a lot of gold in who we really are if we knock away the clay. How's that for a metaphor slash parable? Health insurance doesn't have to break the bank. At oregonhealthcare.gov we're here to get you covered.

[B]

Visit oregonhealthcare.gov to get started.

[A]

Combination really great.

[B]

And I love that story because it's true and how they frame it as centuries later, somebody starts brushing off, you know, the clay or the dirt or the dust. But what if we just did that sooner and started to realize that we are truly unique human beings, we're humane human beings, we're not human doings, you know, and when you think about what we do for a living, and if that becomes a layer of clay or if it becomes, you know, a suit jacket or like Michael Jordan always says, he puts the zone on like a sweater. We don't really don't know who these celebrities and athletes and everything are. We make up stories as to who we think we are and who we think they are in terms of their Personas, et cetera. So it can be extremely confusing. And I'm finding, especially with the younger crowd now, we're still working a lot with young hockey players, young figure skaters, is that they're really struggling right now because I find them comparing themselves to these snapshots in time on social media or Snapchat or Insta or whatever, especially the Tick Tock. It's like, it's so damaging, I find, with these quick hits of how great people's lives are. And was watching it the other day and we got one of our questions, actually we got an email from somebody on our ask us anything. And the question was, you know, how do you know what your true values are? How do you know with everything that's going on in the world right now, how do I trust that I can show my true self without getting exploited, without getting hurt, without feeling some sort of shame? Because what if my true self isn't accepted? You know, so we've got these layers of insecurities that come on top of it right now, especially because we've got so much external influences that we're comparing ourselves to.

[A]

Well, imagine the pressure. So just think about this. So imagine the pressure that, you know, those kids that you're talking about, the influencers, are not just kids. Anybody who's being an influencer in a social media kind of way. Again, anecdotally, we know that when you lift the hood, some of those kids are really disturbed, like they are obsessed and they are upset when the likes aren't there, when things don't go viral, whatever their story is, because so much of their identity is attached to that.

[B]

And that's the dopamine hit, right? Like they're going for that hit all the time.

[A]

Exactly. And the reality of it is, is that if you chip away all of that frontage, you know, if that Persona, that character that they live into every single day for extended periods of time, connected and hooked on how many likes they get or how many Comments they get or don't get, or if somebody's trolling them or not trolling them, it really does start to impact them mentally. So here's the question, you know, what is the consideration that we have to have which is getting into that, I guess, body of work or that understanding that it's about self reflection, you know, you are not your job, you are not your role. You ask a question, you know, I'm guilty. I'm not good at it, although I try to be. You know, when I meet somebody for the first time of not asking them what they do, you know, I'll. If we're at an event, I'll say, so what brings you here? What are some of your goals? There was a question that I saw that went, that's a pretty good question. I think it was Chris Voss asked the question. He's very good at not asking what you do. He will ask, so what do you love about your job? What do you love about your business? So it takes it in a totally different direction, but starts to uncover who that person is. You're talking about. What is it you love about whatever it is you do? Nice to meet you. Then the next thing you know, they're having a conversation about what lights them up as opposed to, oh, you know, I'm an accountant or I'm a construction worker or whatever the scenario might be. So you have a question. What is that? I remember it was similar to that.

[B]

Only I don't make it about what they love to do about what they do. I just, instead of asking them anything about what they do for a living, I just say, so what do you love to do? So I bypass the whole thing and ask people what they love to do. And if I'm sitting there and I know I'm talking to an accountant and they say, I love to paint, or I love to walk in nature, or what I really love to do is empower kids to do dot, dot, dot. Then I can actually enter a conversation, especially with me. I'm not a, like an extrovert or like, I'm not really good in public. I can be a little socially awkward sometimes. So if I can get people into their heart and I can speak to them heart to heart, because that's where I find I'm the most grounded. So that way I can actually survive in, in social situations in a way that doesn't make me feel super awkward or say stupid things.

[A]

Yeah, I don't think either of us are great at small talk. You're better at it than I am, but neither of us are, I would say, great at it. So it is much easier to get into a real conversation. Some people would consider that, gosh, you guys go deep fast. I don't know, you're so nosy. But anyway, so it is interesting. And you know, what brought this up a little bit for me and we were having this conversation and why I wanted to do it was have this conversation about identity. Is that at this point in our lives, you know, we look at, say, okay, well, what is it that we want to do as we go into this phase of our life? You know, we're, you know, I'm mid six. We've made these comments before. Is that I just cannot imagine myself sitting around going golfing and. Or playing pickleball, or that being my main kind of thing to do to keep myself busy. I have to be a contribution. And what shuts me down is if I'm not being a contribution, and maybe that's a bit of ego, I don't know. But all I know is what showed up for me even this morning, again, is people purpose and passion. And if I've got that, I'm a pretty happy camper. And if I don't, I get really bummed out and on the verge of thinking, gosh, am I depressed. It's just that if I'm not being that contribution, it really kind of shuts me down. So that's what brought this all up. And I'm just kind of going, okay, well, what does that look like? I mean, for how many years have we in the businesses that we've owned and that we. What we do is always being a contribution, supporting others. And, you know, whether that be with our retail business within Quantum Speed, within what you do with the athletes that you work with and what we do with Rain. And I'm going, it's a constant, you know, sharing and putting it out there and supporting and coaching and the shift coaching program. It's like all of that. And I go, oh, gosh, is that as my identity attached to that? I don't think so much.

[B]

Well, you make a good point. Like yesterday when we were talking about some of the kind of the qualities that we're both sort of noticing right now about ourselves and each other is that there is a bit of a melancholy, maybe a sadness or I don't know if I would call it depression, but I do have that sense of feeling if I'm not making a contribution or if I'm not doing something that matters. And because I'm more Purpose driven than I am people driven. I also realize that if I'm on purpose, I'm helping people, right? But it also is about helping people understand their purpose. I'm going through some situations right now with some athletes after the 2022 Olympics in Beijing that are actually retiring from sport. And part of my purpose was to always enter the conversation with them before they started to think about retiring to who they are being as they go into this kind of closure, and how they want to end their professional career, for example, and how do they want to enter the next stage of their life? Not like real life. People like, oh my gosh, you're not an athlete anymore. What's real life? Well, that was real life. So how do we take those qualities? Whether they're an athlete or a business owner or, you know, a mom, a dad, a plumber, somebody who's in a transition and ready to go to the next stage of their life, Are they going to bring some of those qualities and the things that they've learned, or are you just going to go, you know, full stop and go, I got nothing. I don't know what to do. I don't know who I am. And to me, I think that's where some of that sadness and depression and. And maybe it's letting go of some of the ego or the labels, I guess. But ultimately, I think if we have the conversation sooner and we frame it in a way that, you know, this era is going to also come to an end. I think about our property living out here. I think about when we lived in Shangri La. That was an era. There was three years of glorious living downtown. And as we started to notice even the environment and the culture that was shifting in downtown Vancouver, I started to feel the shift in myself. And I wasn't that person anymore that was really fired up to walk 10,000 steps a day and to go work out four times a week and hang out with the Goobers, Mutters and all the famous people. I just wasn't into it anymore. And I started to really start, I guess, internalize who I was being and who we were being. I mean, we had some pretty fun times downtown. You know, it was amazing. But that also that person, I'm still the same person, but the person that needed that or required that experience also. I satisfied that. And I think when we started to shift into wanting something more, a little bit deeper, and maybe creating a property that we can bring people to and help them heal or do workshops or have fun and, and have summer parties, that's really the next era. And as I realized that, that also became a new identity that I got to embrace.

[A]

So, yeah, I like the way that you position that. Because when we go from one era to the next, and we've had many kind of conversations even on the podcast, talking about shifting from one era to a new era, and that's about completion, letting go, doing it in a kind of a graceful way, if you can, being clear that you're shifting from one era to the next. And that can be in the, in the shift of a job, a shift of a business. It could be going from, you know, full family to being empty nesters, retirement. All of those things are different eras. And then recognizing that, you know, maybe that's also a little bit of what we're going through right now is it is a new era in terms of what we're doing in our lives and how we're doing it. So there could be a little bit of that going on as well. So from, you know, and back to some of these, you know, challenges that we face if we have our identity so connected, we see with athletes, I mean, how many times over the years have we seen it with professional, in our world, hockey players, for example, you know, NHL guys that literally go through huge challenges in the transition from being a professional, high profile job slash role as a player to all of a sudden you're not in the limelight, you're not the next best thing, you're not playing hockey. You know, you get invited back into the dressing room. If you're well liked, you know, yes, you can go hang around, but they miss that dressing room. They miss the brotherhood, they miss the hanging out with the guys. They also miss being that contribution and having that role that, you know, world that you live into where there's always a camera in your face or you're being interviewed or you're doing what you're doing in terms of playing a game that you love to play. And then all of a sudden you're not now what? You don't need the money generally. And how many times have we seen those individuals. And if you don't have a great education, which is not uncommon in sport, whatever sport, you know, I mean, many of these kids don't ever go to college. They don't have that education, they don't have experience. They started playing hockey when they're, you know, young. They transitioned into and through the ranks. So it's like, now what? I don't have a degree in something, I'm not educated. So they go on to be, you know, sales guys sometimes, you know, which.

[B]

Is not a bad thing. But ultimately, do they. Are they being supported in being something other than an athlete? Other than I would say to the athletes that I work with, I said, you're not a hockey player. You're not a figure skater. You're a human being. You're a person that plays hockey. You're a human being. You're a person that figure skates for a living. You are a professional athlete. So I really early on try to help people frame it in that direction, because what happens, the default, especially with. With athletes or hockey players, if they're not going to go into coaching or they're not going to go into skill development, or they're not going to go into something that is in the game, that they can have that familiarity, they get really lost. We knew some guys, we knew some guys back in the day that understood business and they were raised maybe by entrepreneur entrepreneurs or people that had a little bit of a sniff when it came to, you know, there's going to be life after hockey, dude. You know, there are a little bit of that. So they started planting the seeds. And I think that's where for me, I really got fired up and excited and committed to work in that gray area for athletes because so many of them think it's superstitious to start talking about life after your career is going to end. You never talk about that. It's especially in the media. You don't talk about life after. There is no life after. There's no life outside. That would be sacrilegious and that would be me not being a great teammate. And it's not true. I think what I'm seeing and some of the brass that I've talked to over the years is I had the privilege of using power skating as a way to connect with the players on the ice. I didn't teach them always to skate faster. A lot of what I did was use my ability to skate to. Was to connect and build trust so that we could have the conversation about who they were being. There were times when I was started to work with players and. And athletes alike that started to fold in their spouses or their girlfriends or their boyfriends so they could start learning how to communicate differently when it came to the other person's values. And when you get to the end of an era, if you're not in alignment with the person that you're living with or you're married to or whatever, it can be quite dramatic and quite devastating.

[A]

Well, you know, you make an interesting point. And what popped up for me in all of what you were talking about there is that, I mean, even think about, I was thinking about our men's shift group and the work I've done with business owners over the years and other kind of conversation within the realm of men. In this case, I'll use that just as an example. But often as much as we may get into the how to's or strategies business wise or some things to do, whether it be hiring, firing, marketing, whatever it might be in the operational. So much of the conversation and the work that I'm doing with Mental is not about their business, but it's everything to do with their business and it's all about them and how they're showing up. And part of it is really helping them define their identity. And you know, that is within the context of your life, who are you? And you know, that's the foundation of the work that we've done for how many years. You know, who are you? Being in the context of your life, who are you? Not what you do, that's just only one bucket. Our vocation is one bucket in amongst the other seven areas or the other six areas of life. So within seven areas of life, vocation is just one bucket. And so it is interesting in you on the ice with players, I mean, we've had these kind of revelations where you start to realize, I mean, they're at the NHL, they're playing in the NHL. I mean, how much are they out of whack? Technically, yes, you can make a difference and yes, technically they can improve and they're always seeking to improve. But in the case of a hockey player, we'll use that as an example. Or even a football player, but we'll use hockey. It's about scoring goals. You know, figure skating is about the technical aspect of it. And there's a lot of really, you know, kind of fine nuances, if you will, about their equipment and about their training. That's different. My point is this is you've discovered much what I just shared. You've discovered that with the players, they played better, they skated faster, they were better players, better teammates. Because it was the work that you were doing was about them. It was about defining who they are, not what they do. And I mean, there's just countless examples of that. So for anybody listening to this, what is the kind of guidance that we would first give? You know, for me, I'll take the easy one, which is just to reflect and say, are you operating on top of some fear that you may lose identity and. Or that your identity, you're realizing. You may realize in reflection how much of your identity is attached to what you do. And I think that's a really good starting place for many is just to recognize that, yeah, so much of who I am is attached to what I do. Thoughts?

[B]

Well, I don't want to dig super deep into it, but there we go.

[A]

We're deep. We're deep. Okay.

[B]

We're digging into even the identity politics. I mean, looking over the last three or four years, how people are hanging on and defining themselves, whether it's in their sexuality, their gender, their job, their. And putting the stake in the ground and saying, this is who I am and screw you, and if you don't accept me, then you're wrong and you're gonna have to lose your license, and you're this and you're that, and people are being compelled to acknowledge and things that they don't understand. And I think if we don't acknowledge or don't shine a light on the fact that we as human beings, we're designed to evolve, we have to change is. Is inevitable. And if you're deciding that you're going to be, at 16 years old, the exact same person at 25, you got the same hairstyle, you got the same group of friends, you got the same. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's in the demand that you do that. So that safety or that comfort that you're creating is then affecting your ability to evolve, to grow, which I believe truly in my heart is what we're here to do. I mean, if we're not here to grow and evolve and change and. And take a look at what worked in our life and what didn't work in our life, and am I really making the best contribution just by fighting for my identity right now? I'm going to force you and compel you to accept me for who I am, regardless if I'm right or wrong or bigger, whatever. And what happens is that in that compelled speech, we then turn around and lock it in. I will be this forever and ever. Amen. And you have to accept me. And I find that to be very damaging. And I find the stress that it creates because of the evolutionary. You always say something which I love is you can't force the river or don't force the river. And what that means to me in that regard is that if you're trying to force the river in who you're being at all Times forever and ever. Amen. Then that creates a level of stress and a level of brittleness and I believe a lack of flexibility that allows you to grow and really invite and embrace what is really possible in this beautiful life that we have.

[A]

It's interesting is, you know, around. All of it is around the courage to be your authentic self. So first off, you have to recognize that you aren't what you do. And that is a big thing for many is that their identity is so attached to what they do. And then the realization that being authentic takes courage because there is some fear that the people won't like you or where you're at right now. If they saw who you really were, they would go, you're out. You know, like, you can't be part of this. And so there's a whole integrity issue that goes along with that. Right. And again, it was another. It's funny when we get on a theme or when I pick up on something I want to talk about. So again, this was Chris Voss, who I like to file. He wrote the book you can negotiate.

[B]

No, don't split the difference.

[A]

Don't split the difference. Years ago, there was another book I read called you can negotiate anything but never split the difference was by Chris Voss. But anyways, Chris Voss was in a hostage situation and the husband of this woman was being held by, I think, Al Qaeda or Taliban or something, and he was negotiating it. And the boss, the owner of the business who had it, was his employee that was being held hostage and the wife was there. And it was very. A lot of stuff going on. And the boss looked at him that owned the business and said, is there any way out of this? And Chris said, I'm not optimistic about where this is going to end up because they had put a deadline on it, as in, you know, we're going to pull the trigger at X time. And he didn't. Based on the negotiation. He did not. He thought they were going to hit the timeline. Long story is that they did. In fact, they didn't. He didn't negotiate his way out of it. It fell the way it did. But in the moment, that corporate business owner, very savvy business guy, looked at Chris and said, I appreciate the truth. And what Chris said in that moment was he said, I'm so committed to my values and who I am, and I could not compromise my integrity. Although delivering that news was not good news because he said, I was quite certain that this wasn't going to go the way we wanted it to go based on where Things were happening. My point is that he was being his most authentic self, owning his highest value, which is, I have to tell the truth. And so that was really an interesting kind of fit into all of this, of who Chris Voss is. And if you watch and follow Chris at all, and he does lots of little anecdotal things, you start to really see that this guy is as upfront as you can be. Right. Like, he's always laying it on the line, even though he's a very, very accomplished negotiator.

[B]

Oh, man. I think about that story a lot because you think about supporting the wife, maybe having her make a statement about her husband being held hostage and this and that, and how to try to make it better for her and make it better for the boss and for Chris Voss to go, you know what? I think this is as good as it's going to get. And I think we need to get to the truth. And honoring his values that way, even though he probably in said, well, you're probably going to fire me anyway, so I'm just going to tell you the truth. But I think in many ways, when you have that level of compassion and that level of commitment to values, you are seeing the world in how other people are going to perceive you as well. And I think that the truth. I love the line my mom always used to say, the truth will set you free. And I don't mean that, you know, set you free from chains or whatever, but when you walk through the truth and see how quickly people can respond to the truth, because you're not having to adjust to your lies or to some sort of image or a mask that I'm seeing so many people still wearing. Even though it's not a face diaper, I'm still seeing people wear masks out there and communicating and saying things that just maybe aren't super true or authentic. And I think if we just can come back to that place where we're okay and we're okay to be misunderstood, and we're okay if someone doesn't quite get it, but I think it's safer in the long run to speak your truth.

[A]

Well, there's one other thing as we start to wind this down is there's a conversation that has to be had, I think, in terms of identity and authenticity. And what happens. You know, we all love friends that we've known for many, many years. Right. But often what happens is we outgrow close friends or we part ways or things go just drift apart. Well, why is that? Well, at some point, one of those, you know, whether it be a couple or people, you know, we'll talk couples in this particular scenario is that as we evolve, those others may be evolving in a different way. And so is. We're adults. We're having life experiences happen to us. We're having jobs and careers and family and circumstances and all the things that happen. So it's not that it said that to stay true to yourself, you evolve and you grow, and those people that are in your life fall away. And not because of anything you've done or said or they've done or said. It's just what happens.

[B]

You, unless you need to make it about that, that's what the other thing. That's the other side of it. If people are coming and going into your life and you're not okay with it and you make them wrong, that's also, I find, very stressful.

[A]

Yeah, it is very stressful. And I think ultimately, again, if you are committed to staying true to who you are, your most authentic self, if you are in that evolution of growth and change and realizing that you don't want to be who you were a year ago or two years ago, in terms of. I don't think I said that quite right. But ultimately my point is that are you evolving and growing? And if you are evolving and growing because that's what you choose to do, there are people that are going to fall away because they're not on that same path anymore. They're not with you in your growth, you're onto other things, and that's cool. Or they're onto other things and that's cool, too. You just don't hang out as much together. So. Identity. Give us some thought. Who are you if you're not that? Who are you if you're not what you do? Who are you being in the context of your life? Self discovery.

[B]

Yeah. And can you bring what you love to do to what you do to what you do?

[A]

Okay. I think we beat this one up pretty good.

[B]

Thanks, son. That was fun.

[A]

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening. If you found value in the podcast, please take the time to rate and review and share with others. Share with your friends, as it is my goal to always improve and to provide the highest value for you, the listener. If you have any comments, suggestions or questions you'd like answered, please email [e-mail] that's CEO. I look forward to hearing from you. And until next time. Patrick. Oh.