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The Everyday Millionaire and Mindset Matters Podcast
Mindset Matters - Episode #175 - Integrity: WTF? I'm Confused!
00:32:15
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Hi there and welcome to this episode of the Everyday Millionaire Mindset Matters podcast, where I'm joined by my wife, Olympic mental performance coach Stephanie Hanlon. Francie. In these episodes, Stephanie and I have a conversation about the different aspects of what we refer to as Mindset Matters because we believe that for those who are awake, we are living in and through the most impactful time in history. Your view of the world is the filter for how you will experience the evolution and changing dynamics of it. Our intention is to provide you with ideas, nutritious food for thought, and some tools that you can use to help you in being your greatest self and living your best life. Listen in. Enjoy. Stephanie.
- [00:52]
B
Hi, hon.
- [00:53]
A
Okay, I'm going to open with a skill testing question. It's not a skill testing question, just a question. And I think you'll already know the answer. So, you know, we've run workshops, we've done a lot of coaching, and some of the work that we do is values helping people discover what their core values are. We do the core or the values matrix, and that's all really cool, but when we get into the next layer and level, we help people kind of get to what their top five core values are. Now, in all the time you've done it, what is the one value that consistently shows up but isn't true?
- [01:33]
B
The one value that shows up on the matrix? Oh, no.
- [01:37]
A
On our top five, you see it all the time.
- [01:39]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Integrity.
- [01:41]
A
Yeah. And as soon as we. As soon as we see somebody write integrity, it's a flag right now, and it's an easy one to get trapped in. So first off, you know, when we give let's unpack the definition in our world of integrity, I'd have to pick. I'd actually have to pull it up to know what the dictionary definition is. But just the definition we use is who you are when nobody's looking. Right. Okay, well, what does that even mean? Let's unpack that a little bit more. So the whole thought process is that if you're true to your values, true to yourself, living life authentically in alignment with your core values, you are, in fact, integrous. You're in integrity. What people do consciously, and here's the hook unconsciously, is they operate outside of their core values without knowing it or knowing it doesn't matter, and you, in fact, are out of integrity. Now, would you add anything to that kind of broad overview?
- [02:45]
B
Yeah, I get that. What's interesting about that is the word integrity itself, I think means different things to different People. So when you're in integrity, what I've discovered it for myself is I can only be out of integrity with myself. Like, if people don't know me or, you know, they're judging or somebody's saying, oh, she's so out of integrity, that's generally based on their values or based on something that's external. So I think what I'm excited about this conversation is that if we. I don't think there's a blanket definition of integrity, but I think it's something that. Because it gets tossed around so judgmentally.
- [03:25]
A
I once got into a big debate about integrity and the meaning of the word and what it really represented. And then they brought up the fact, well, there's structural integrity. That's not what you're talking about. And I go, well, in some regards it is, if you want to use that as a metaphor, structural integrity. If you have the structural integrity of a bridge, of a building, of, I don't know, of a car, you know, of a tire on your car, it doesn't matter. There's structural integrity. And if that integrity, if the integrity of that structure breaks down, you have a crash, you have a collapse, you have a problem because the structural integrity has been compromised personally as an individual. And we will get into. We could even get into business. But let's talk about just personally right now. When you are out of integrity with your core values, consciously or unconsciously, you will and are breaking down at some level. And we're going to give some examples of that because I really like this talk.
- [04:26]
B
That's good. That's good.
- [04:27]
A
Our own personal structure, our way of being, our conversations, our actions, our. Are based on how we are trying to or intending to stay in integrity. I mean, I think that it's safe to say that most people don't operate out of integrity knowingly. I think there's probably some narrative that says, well, you should know, and all the rest of it, but I think a lot of people don't even give it any thought. But that doesn't change the fact that if you're out of integrity, you are out of integrity. Whether you know it or not, there will be a breakdown. That's. That's structural. So that's my view. And we're going to keep unpacking this.
- [05:07]
B
Go back to, you can only be out of integrity with yourself. Like, I can't be out of integrity for you, or vice versa. Like, that's where I think it gets really, really dicey, is that when you think of structural integrity, you know, you think of engineers, they're building a bridge. They have standards. There's certain things that are held to a higher standard so that we're. We, you know, as people driving across the bridge, you know, we're not going to fall into the lip, into the river. So ultimately, there is that structural integrity. You used to say something when. When you were still working at pro skate, and you. You guys had come up early on before, you know, now it's normal, but you would heat up a pair of skates and you would decrease the integrity of the leather. And I remember that term so clearly, because what it was, it wasn't. You were decreasing integrity of the leather to make it weaker, but to make it more pliable. So then it would. Then, of course, it would cool down, and then the integrity of the leather would then fit around the foot. So I remember thinking about the word integrity on a couple of different levels back in the day, back when we were really starting to really dig into this kind of work. And I realized that integrity can be misinterpreted based on the values of the person using the word or their own definition. So I think as we unpack this, I think we can maybe give some examples in different scenarios where integrity has been compromised. But truthfully, I can never be out of integrity with anyone other than myself.
- [06:42]
A
Okay? And I think that you got to put a flag. You got to really bookmark that statement. We can't be out of integrity with anybody else. We can only be out of integrity with ourselves. And we can lie to other people, we can do all sorts of things, but we're only ever out of integrity with ourselves. So that's one point that I think that is important to shine a light on. But what is it? Before we get into this, I mean, why does this conversation even matter? I mean, I'll give you my view of it and suggest that, you know, if you're out of integrity, it's showing up. It can show up as anxiety. It could show up as opportunities. Not happening. It can show up as failed relationships. Because the one thing is, it's my integrity to own and be out of. Other people can observe it based on my word, by my conversations, by my actions. They can say he is living or operating out of integrity with who he. He says he is.
- [07:40]
B
Oh, oh, don't step over that, cowboy. You said the word, your word with who you say you are. Then you give people something to judge. That's how they can know you're out of integrity. But it's still with yourself.
- [07:54]
A
It's still with me. And by the way, I may not even realize that's what's happening. You know, it would be, you know, the example we, you know, this is such a. It's kind of related and not related. They call it seagull management. Have you ever heard that? The seagull manager.
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B
Seagull.
- [08:12]
A
The seagull manager management. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [08:16]
B
Oh, yeah. No, I've never heard of that.
- [08:17]
A
Okay, so seagull management, they fly in, they shit all over you, they squawk a lot and then they leave. Okay, that's funny. Seagull management. But you know, that same seagull manager, when they hired you, may have said, I've always got an open door. You can talk to me anytime. We want to hear what you have to say. You know, there's lots of flexibility to be creative and do what you want, but none of that holds true. Now, by that standard, he is out of integrity. You may look at him and you go, you're full of shit. You're lying. You lied to me. That person may not even realize just how out of integrity they are. They're not lying. They, they don't even realize what they're doing. So those are some of the things that can happen. There's a conversation, there's a. Or an example of the little white lies. You know, maybe we stretch the truth a little to maybe say, because we don't want somebody to, you know, we don't want somebody's feelings to be hurt. Could be that, you know, maybe it's, I forgot my wallet. Or, you know, who knows? It could be, oh, I'm parking in the handicap. I just don't have my handicap card. Know, I guess I forgot I'm handicapped. I'm going to limp. So it's like this little white lies that, you know, you think are innocent enough, but that is chipping away at integrity. And they do seem innocent, by the way. I don't know if they, I don't know what universal law says do, you know, do a whole bunch of operating little white lies or little minor integrous issues add up to be one big one? I have no idea. You know the, you know the rules around that.
- [09:49]
B
I, I don't. Because when I think about it, and as I've been studying universal law over the, over the last, I don't know, hundred years, it all comes down to first principles and like, what is the, the very, the core and the root of who you are? And ultimately I have to live with myself. I'm the one who has to look in the mirror every day. And if I am out of integrity with who I say I am, I either have to change who I say I am or I right lean into it or get, get okay with it. I think about certain times over the years where, you know, I, I know what it feels like in my body when I'm out of integrity. It feels gross. And I'm like, to the point where I can't be out of integrity for like a minute because I'll hurt myself. I'll, I'll, I'll fall, I'll, I'll bump into something, I'll blow something up. You know, my tech will, you know, blow up because I just know that I have a commitment to being in alignment with myself. Does it mean that I'm perfect or that I never screw up or make mistakes? No, I don't think that's our conversation. I think what it is, is, is highlighting what integrity means and, and, and if you're going to use that word with yourself and other people to really be clear on what it means to.
- [11:10]
A
You, well, you have to understand your values to really be clear on what it means to you. And the key part of this is that again is you can be out of integrity. I've had this happen, I've gone through this. It's why it's always a topic of conversation for us is not just because of what happens to us. We see it is that you can live and make decisions that are out of integrity and then the consequences happen later. And those are really tough lessons to learn. One of the reasons that this was an important conversation because just recently I've had conversations with people that I'm coming to know and understand and they are in jobs where they just don't align with the, the corporate structure yet. They go to work every day, they feel the need that they have to, but they don't agree. So you know, one of the individuals just happens to be in that world of, you know, diversity and inclusivity like it's a big deal. They're DEI world, the DEI world. And so she happens to have hands on in some of the HR issues or in the HR policies, if you will. So she's sometimes been handcuffed in terms of the individual she wants to hire because of their skills and their qualifications versus who she has to hire because of the diversity conversation or the inclusion conversation. So now how do you handle that? Now some would justify it, say, well, she's not really out of integrity, but yes she is. She's Playing in a. She's playing a game in a environment that is not and does not define her. Sorry, does not represent her. She's not in it like, she hates it. So my point is this. You're out of integrity in those situations, and people do it, and I'm not judging it at all. What I'm saying is, is that what an awful situation to find yourself in. And because you know it, you go to work, you grind it out, and you do it every day. I mean, that can't be fulfilling. So there's a price to pay for that. But there's also a belief saying, well, I can't go get a better job, or there's no other jobs out there, or whatever the story might be. And that's a cycle or a downward cycle that I think the individuals can get in if they're not aware. The other side of it is, we can talk about this right here, and somebody might go, ooh. I didn't even really. It didn't occur to me that that was an integrity issue. I thought I was just doing what I had to do to support the family. Well, maybe that's the case, but that's the kinds of things that affect your mental, emotional, even your physical health. So I'll stop there. If anything you want to add, oh.
- [13:55]
B
Boy, you're opening up a can of worms, cowboy.
- [13:58]
A
I think it's only intended to because in those situations, it's not. I'm not trying to make anybody.
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B
No, no, no, I get it.
- [14:05]
A
So much empathy and compassion for those situations. And I know these people, you know, and others in the public service sector. And I'm going, holy crap. I could never. I couldn't handle that. I'd lose my mind. But they. They're okay with it. They, they, they. It's what they do. It's what they know.
- [14:21]
B
Yeah, but it isn't what they know. This is new. Like this whole DEI thing. Let's just kind of unpack this a little bit. And let's say it's been imposed in your department through the hr, and now you have to run your business and you can't hire the best person because certain categories haven't been ticked yet. And I'm finding that with a client I have in Quebec is that they run a film company and they can't hire the best people because they don't have enough of the diversity, equity and inclusion boxes ticked. So now their whole company is being compromised because they can't move forward. They can't find the best people because the Best people maybe didn't fit in the categories that they're supposed to be doing in this whole DEI thing. So they would you say they're out of integrity or they are choosing to try to fit into a box that they don't even align with anymore?
- [15:18]
A
That's a good question. And maybe I think in some regards, it's a question of survival. You know, think about it. This is the box that you have to play in, and you decide that that's the direction you're going to take with the company, even though it doesn't align with those values because the cost of it is shutting down, the cost of it is financial. Too big a hit and you'd have to lay staff off. I mean, I don't have an answer. It's where we actually start to bring our attention to it. And if you're not aware of it, then you don't even know that it might be something that's in your way or that there's something there to find a solution for if you're not aware of it. And yet you may be very unhappy. Let's face it, you know, it really hits on the, you know, lack of satisfaction for life and depression and anxiety and anger and all the stuff that shows up because it weighs on you. You know, it's the. It's those weights that we carry around that we're putting our. Our mental and emotional, our spiritual health at risk.
- [16:20]
B
Well, I think about too, you know, over the last few years, you know, now that you say that, it's also comes down to choice and to align with your values. And sometimes you have to give up something in order to gain something. And for me, I have to be able to look at myself in the mirror and. And live with my own soul. And I think about the people that were maybe forced to make a choice for their bodily autonomy over the last couple of years or lose their job. And I remember thinking about it at the time and going, you know, how do they. How do they make that choice? How do you make the choice to do something that's so against your values? But at the same time, if family and feeding your family is a higher value and you keep your job, but you do something that's so against. Like, how do you. How do you reconcile that? What is the. Where's the integrity in that conversation? And I mean, honestly, I follow a ton of people on social media. As you know, I don't watch the news, but I follow people on social media that lost everything because they stood up to what they believed was wrong. And they stood in their integrity and, and lost jobs, they lost families, they lost businesses. Businesses things because they just were not going to buy into the tyranny and the imposition of somebody telling them what they had to do that was outside their integrity. And at the same time, I have people on the other side who I know and love who completely bought into it and said, you know what, it's okay. I, I don't really care about this stuff. I want to keep my job and it doesn't really matter. So I have no judgment on it. I know for me, I had to not go to the 2022 Olympics in Beijing because I, I chose not to do something that went against my values, which broke my heart and broke the heart of my clients. And it was really, really difficult. And. But I had to live with myself. And to me, when I realized the impact of that decision and the ripple effect that it had, I, I know.
- [18:23]
A
But the impact of that decision, those that you don't know what you. Where you are today because of that decision, you can't judge it. This may be the most brilliant thing right now. What you've got going on in life may be the most brilliant thing that can be because you actually made that decision back then. Had you gone the other way and made a decision to. And be. And chose to be out of alignment with your values and your integrity could be. Oh, we could be having. We may even be on this podcast right now. Who knows? You know what I'm saying? We can't tell ourselves those stories. But think about the breakdown of relationship. So think about divorces and marriage, you know, and the people that have stayed together for many years and not been true to who they are, and instead that, you know, mistresses or affairs or whatever that might be. So the point is, is that, you know, when you're out of integrity, it's just. You have to live with it.
- [19:19]
B
Yeah. Take a breath. Like, honestly, this is a lot bigger conversation than I thought we were going to go to. But when I realized on so many levels, the choices. And I remember, and I. And this is going to probably piss some people off, but I remember when Justin Trudeau came out and said, I never forced you to take a vaccination. I never forced you. You chose. But when you give people a choice, it's like Sophie's Choice, Remember that movie where she was. Had to choose between who she's going to save, her son or her daughter. Like, it's an impossible choice. But where have we lost the plot in Staying true to ourselves and staying true to our definition of integrity.
- [20:05]
A
Again, I think I get it, but again is that people make choices that they feel that they have to make. A lot of it is from survival. And again, I don't know if I was put in some of the situations that I've observed, I actually don't know what I would have done. They're so complex and emotionally draining and, you know, it's easy to sit back and go, oh, this is what I do. But when you're in it, you don't have to hold you're look, you know, because as we know, perspective is perception. And when your perspective is what it is in that moment of time and you can't see out of that, you can't shift that perspective. Your perception is, I've only got one thing that I got to do. And whatever the decision is, by the way, it doesn't matter what the decision is. You know, you gave an example of the shot. But I mean, ultimately it could be a job, it could be a relationship, it could be any number of things that we make these choices knowing that we're not being true to ourselves. And then who really carries that weight and pays the price? We do. The person or the individual who's acting out of alignment with their values. So, you know, ultimately the point of this whole conversation is bring our attention to it, remind ourselves where are we maybe telling those little white lies, not being true to our word, stretching the truth, you know, whatever it might be. And I think that there's, you know, that's the ebb and flow of day to day life and day to day business and day to day interactivity with your loved ones. But ultimately are we staying true to our core values, you know, whatever those might be. And if integrity is on your, like, if that's important to you and that is one of your top five and you're aware of it, then you have to really be aware of when you're not living into it because it can sneak up on you.
- [21:59]
B
Yeah. So what's interesting about that when, you know, circle back to the beginning of the question you asked me. What is the, the number one word that shows up when we start to do the kind of the high level and help, you know, people drill down onto their values and its integrity. Once we actually have these conversations, many people take integrity off their list of values because they haven't fully realized that it's about integrity with themselves. This is really funny is that like three quarters of the people that I, I've worked With. In this regard have said, oh, it's because I'm judging somebody else's decisions on their. Out of integrity with my values.
- [22:38]
A
That's tr.
- [22:39]
B
Right. So when you think about it, like, I can't be out of integrity with your values. I can only be out of integrity with mine. But if I say integrity is my highest value, and then I'm filtering, you know, the world through this whole thing, like, you're out of integrity because you're an. Or you didn't live up to what you said you were doing. So I'm the. Actually, I had a. We're not friends anymore. But I had a woman in my life for years that used to tell me about how all these other people were out of integrity, but I realized it was because they didn't live up to her standards. They were out of integrity. So she would write them off, write them off, write them off on. On. And I'd be like, I just can't imagine doing that because I don't know what's going on. I never, ever, ever, ever five times know what's going on for someone else. So why would I judge somebody else for being out of integrity? That's ridiculous.
- [23:30]
A
Well, you would if it affected you. I mean, ultimately, if. Or if you could identify it, if you saw it, if somebody was not. Yeah, yeah, that's. Anyways, okay, so that's the word. The word I wanted to kind of just unpack, have a conversation, was around integrity because it showed up. And I guess it's nothing else. It's just an awareness of where we need to sometimes look in a mirror if we're not happy, if we're not getting the results we want, if we're feeling that depression, that angst, that I hate this situation, I hate this job, I hate this relationship, I hate this deal, whatever it might be. You know, you have to do a integrity check, you know, might be a.
- [24:09]
B
Good option with my clients. I have an integrity checklist. It's really cool. Actually, I had a conversation with a client tonight, and what I realized, too, is that there were certain behaviors that she was exhibiting, you know, at work and in. In. In the partnership, et cetera. And then at the end of the night, she would, like, go through the whole how I behaved today or what was going on. And she felt horrible, but in the moment, couldn't change her behavior, which I thought was so interesting. And it went on for three or four days in a row. And at the same time, every night, she would do a thing and she'd have to text and apologize and do all these things. But in the moment she couldn't change her behavior. So where is that kind of an out of alignment? Like, like when you, when you act a certain way but you say you're this way, but I act this way and then feel guilty at the end of the night?
- [25:05]
A
Well, yeah, because you know, you're out of integrity. You just maybe haven't labeled it. But here's the thing about it, here's the thing around all of it is that, you know, there's, I guess what we live in our life, the ebb and flow of life, protecting others feelings, whatever's going on, it's like picking the lesser of two evils. It's like I got, I can't deal with another thing so I'm going to do it this way. So those are the ebb and flow of things. And there's got to be some flex. You know, nobody is walking around a monk or a pope or whatever they are. And that's probably not even a good example of integrity. Okay, my bad. I'm going off the rails. So here's the thing about it is that the first step in trying to dial it in is because I found myself in situations knowing that I'm out of integrity, not knowing how to get out of it, but working towards getting out of and getting back into alignment. But that comes at a cost. And so again, that's the point of it is bringing your awareness to it and asking yourself the question, am I being true to who I say I am? I mean, as simple as it is, and everybody has done this, Christ, I've done it many times, sometimes daily, is that I'm committed to health and fitness. I am going to go to the gym and I'm going to go to the gym three days a week and do all these things. That's who I am. Well, what happens when you start making excuses that you can't do it and you can't make it right, that is a breakdown of integrity. Only with you. You know, at the end of the day, it's only with you. So things that we bring to our attention is only to say this. There's the ebb and flow, there's the lack of any awareness. Those individuals, a narcissist doesn't know they're a narcissist, for example. So you know, you see these things happening and ultimately what we can do is put in the correction, change the trajectory, bring the alignment a little tighter. Those are the things that we can do. And the effect of that is just better health. And I'm talking about health in all areas. Physical, mental, spiritual, emotional, vocational, financial, familial, stay in integrity. And all of those areas of your life can be far healthier.
- [27:17]
B
Yeah. But it's also difficult because you think about it when you're prepared to be misunderstood in your life, in the context of your life. I think about all the times where I've taken a stand, which wasn't popular, or people I knew people were going to leave or deals were not going to happen because I had to be prepared to be misunderstood in the context of where I was at and my values and my integrity. And it's. It can be lonely. And I find that when, you know, I think about the people that I know that had to make decisions over the last few years around what they believed in and what they were willing to lose because of that, to me, that it's admir, it's admirable, but it's also very painful. And I think that's why some people will lean to the, to the space of being out of integrity with themselves. Because it's too painful.
- [28:15]
A
Yeah. What's the price you pay and what's the reward if you put into correction? And sometimes they don't feel like they'll balance out, you know, so, yeah, you.
- [28:27]
B
Gotta live with yourself. Right.
- [28:28]
A
I get it. I'll share one final story. I think I've shared this before, but it's such a perfect example of this. But a young golfer, first time playing in a PGA tour and this is evident to many years ago, anyways, he was leading. He was leading by a stroke. I think he was on the 17th or 16th hole. He hit a ball into the rough, walks over, no problem, hits the ball, birdies the hole, whatever he does, comes out the 18th and looks down and realizes that he's not playing with his ball. So in other words, the ball he found in the rough that he played.
- [29:09]
B
Was the wrong ball.
- [29:10]
A
Was the wrong ball. So guess what he had in his world, he said, hey, listen, this is what's happened. I, you know, got to add whatever the penalty was, two strokes or something. Anyways, it cost him the tournament, in other words. And at the time was like 50 grand, huge, huge money. Now, interesting is that we had many interviews and reporters going, why did you say anything like, you are done. You signed your card. Actually, he said, no, I can't sign my card because I didn't win this game. So that's what happened. So it cost him 50 grand, huge money at the time. And the reporters were saying, and a couple of them, and one in particular stood up and said, why did you tell anybody like you were home free? And he goes, so he said, because. So nobody would have known. And he goes, I would have known.
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B
I would have known.
- [30:05]
A
I would have known. And if I want to call myself a champion, a true champion, then I need to win the game by the rules. And so in his world, to win the game by the rules, just because somebody didn't see him hit the wrong ball doesn't mean he didn't hit the wrong ball. So as much as everybody would think he was the champion or that he won that tournament, he got the trophy, he got the money. He could not live with himself. So I don't remember who that golfer was. I'm, you know, I'm going to look that up so that I can share it, because I think I would like to know what happened there after. So I don't know the rest of the story. It was probably some young famous kid. I don't know. Anyways, that's all I got.
- [30:50]
B
Ultimately, he could look himself in the mirror the next day. And doesn't make him a better person. It just makes him true to himself. And I think that's the message to me around integrity, is that it's not about judging other people. It's not about judging yourself. It's about what you can live with. Do you want to stretch? I don't want to live in the gray area. You know, I'm not black and white. I know I can. I create and I am. Basically. I always leave room for the magic. But ultimately, we have to be able to look ourselves in the mirror at the end of the night.
- [31:23]
A
100%. It's a. It's a tough old world out there. You know, survive and stick handling, move things around, pretend not to know. Oh, it's hard work, Stephanie. That's all I got. Thank you.
- [31:36]
B
Thanks, son. That was fun.
- [31:39]
A
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening. If you found value in the podcast, please take the time to rate and review and share with others. Share with your friends as it is my goal to always improve and to provide the highest value for you, the listener. If you have any comments, suggestions, or questions you'd like answered, please email me at CEO@raincanada.com. that's CEO@reincanada.com I look forward to hearing from you. And until next time, Patrick out.