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The Everyday Millionaire and Mindset Matters Podcast
Mindset Matters - Episode #185 - The Courage to Be Disliked: How Top Performers Think Differently
00:32:37
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- [00:00]
Stephanie Hanlon
Foreign.
- [00:05]
Patrick
Welcome to this episode of the Everyday Millionaire Mindset Matters podcast where I'm joined by my wife, Olympic mental performance coach Stephanie Hanlon. Francie. In these episodes, Stephanie and I have a conversation about the different aspects of what we refer to as Mindset matters because we believe that for those who are awake, we are living in and through the most impactful time in history. Your view of the world is the filter for how you will experience the evolution and changing dynamics of it. Our intention is to provide you with ideas, nutritious food for thought, and some tools that you can use to help you in being your greatest self and living your best life. Listen in, enjoy. Hey there and welcome to the Everyday Millionaire Mindset Matters of Stephanie.
- [00:57]
Stephanie Hanlon
Hey, Hannah.
- [00:58]
Patrick
So let's unpack a couple things today and let's get right to work. You know, we have been on this journey of limiting beliefs which we often refer to and talk about and you know, expanding on what we talk about in the podcast. And I'm about to or I'm on the journey of writing a book under the Everyday Millionaire umbrella. There's lots of things going on. You came across a quote today, by the way. We're recording this on Mother's Day. I did talk to my 97 year old mom and thanked her for being such a great mom. 997. Holy cow. Yeah, so she did give me a hard time about not coming to Edmonton to visit her enough. Okay, Mom, I was just there and I am coming. But it's, you know, there's a little bit like she's at a point where she's very, very bright still. But some of her time frame things still, it's like, mom, I was just there but she forgot. And then I say, well, I'm going to be there in a week. But she loses that time frame. You know, it's like I'm noticing those things about it.
- [02:01]
Stephanie Hanlon
But she said, well, you know, I'd give everything just to be able to have a phone call with my mom.
- [02:05]
Patrick
Yeah, yeah. Yes. Joyce was an all star. She was a great mom. She is a great mom. Okay, we're going to kick this off. You start off with a quote today. You must develop the ability to be disliked in order to free yourself from the prison of other people's opinions. From the prison of other people's opinions.
- [02:26]
Stephanie Hanlon
Ooh, zing. Yeah, start again. Don't step over this. Read it again.
- [02:31]
Patrick
Okay, so you must develop the ability to be disliked in order to free yourself from the prison of other people's opinions. Now on the surface, that quote makes sense. But I would expand on it and go, you're not in the prison of other people's opinions. You're in the prison of interpreting and. Or believing and. Or caring what other people's opinions are. And that prison is in your mind. You're in the prison of your mind wondering and caring what other people think of you.
- [03:14]
Stephanie Hanlon
Oh, wow. Like, it's true. It's not that you don't care. It's not that I don't care. It's just sometimes I can't care. I look at, you know, the journey that we've been on and how many iterations of ourself and how we've had to move and, and pivot and duck and dodge and, And. And survive on so many levels. And I think there's been times where I've been worried that people would not like me and they wouldn't understand that I'm just trying to do the best that I can, and I leave them in the dust or they leave me in the dust. But the truth is, honestly, if everybody. And we take the presupposition that everybody's just doing the very best that they can, then it really doesn't matter what other people think. Because my mom always said, I think it was an Eleanor Roosevelt quote. It's like we spend so much time thinking about what other people think about us when we realize that they barely think about us.
- [04:08]
Patrick
Well, and here's the thing about it. Does it matter? Number one? Number two, we don't. You know, it's more about what we think of ourselves that really matter. When I've interviewed now many hundreds of everyday millionaires on the podcast, and whether on camera or off camera, it often comes back to the most successful people that have achieved a lot in business and in life and all the things. Number one, they're intense. That is for sure. That is generally a pattern that I see. Is there always a degree of intensity? And secondly, they don't care anymore what anybody else thinks of them. It was one of the things that they had to let go of because if they were concerned about what other people thought of them, it was limiting to them. It was. In other words, they wouldn't do something. They'd think that maybe somebody would judge them as being wrong or whatever their story was, and they just quit it. They went, nope, I'll live into my values. I'll be my most authentic self. I'll discover who my most authentic self is. That's an ongoing journey, of course. That's why we do the podcast mindset matters. One of the reasons, because it is a journey. But part of the things that we have to unpack is what gets in our way of being free, of being free of our limiting beliefs, being free and living into the life and the lifestyle that we want, being the people that are the person that we want to be, being the relationships we want to be. So, anyways, this is all good conversation in terms of being aware of how much time do you spend worried about what other people will think, and that alters your decisions, that affects the choices that you make and keeps you limited.
- [05:45]
Stephanie Hanlon
Oh, there's a lot to unpack there and think about it is that how many times I've made decisions or choices based on what I think somebody else might think of me? Not a lot. You know, I think that I was raised in a way that I was, you know, taught to honor my values and taught to kind of stand alone. And that, to me, has been. One of the things, I think that has given me strength over the last. Especially the last five or ten years is. Is our willingness to stand alone in the. In the. And in the light of our own truth or in the. In the moments where we feel the most judged or the most disliked. And you know what? I. I've never really cared about what people thought about me. I've always, in a sense, wanted to be liked. But I also know that I'm a little bit socially awkward, and there's things sometimes that I say that come out of my mouth that I actually don't mean, but. Or I'm saying things at a level of consciousness that no, you know, people in the room don't get. So I got used to really early on, quite young, being feeling like I was rejected. And I actually held it as a badge of honor for a while, you know, because I thought, well, you know, if I'm blazing a trail or if I'm out there in front, you know, I don't want to be the person that's so far behind. I think I'm in first place. You know, I just. I don't want to be that person. I would rather, I think, just try to fio it, you know, figure it out as I go and then share the lessons as I go. And I think that's what makes me a good coach, is that I can figure it out. I can be present and intentional when I'm. When I'm with people, and I'm not seeking, you know, conversations to be validated. And I think that's the thing about Needing to be liked or needing to be supported or to be free from the prison of other people, of other people's opinion is that there's a space where you get to. And I don't think it's just age. I think there's a level of commitment to values and understanding about, you know, we're here, we're born alone, we die alone. You know, we're lucky to have certain people in our life, our family, our chosen family, the people that get us. But most don't.
- [08:00]
Patrick
Many don't. So. But that's. I think, you know, there's not everybody wants to. I don't think everybody's driven necessarily to grow. There are those that, I guess, hence the A type personalities who want to achieve more, do more, be more, live bigger, grander lives. And then there's those that aren't willing to or want to and aren't willing to do the work, aren't willing to escape the prison that they live in of the opinions of others. That is, you know something that. It's an interesting dynamic, isn't it? Is that there are those that are always on the journey of breaking out of their prison of their mind, living into the best version of themselves. We have those conversations all the time. There's those that aren't aware at all of the possibilities of that, and then there's those that are kind of viewing it. They're seeing it, they're looking in as what's possible, but aren't willing to get uncomfortable, aren't willing to do the work because they're afraid of what others might think of them. And so I don't know, as I'm kind of talking this through, to me, there's those categories that, you know, we talk about, let's say, a fixed mindset, people who are just the way they are, I'm just the way I am. And that's okay. That's. That is definitely a container where those individuals, those people live their lives. And they're happy to do that. They seem happy to do that. I don't know. And then there's those that want more, want to be more, want to achieve more, want to live bigger, better, cooler lives, whatever that dream or vision that they might have. But they're not willing to do the work, take the risk because of what friends, family, peers might think of them. And then there's those who are on a journey always of elevating, expanding, learning, growing. What's your thoughts on that, by the way? Because it is. I do have a point to that. Which is how do we break free from the prison of other people's opinions? But also how do we break free from the, I guess, the prison of our mind, the constraints that we have around our limiting beliefs, our bs, our belief systems. What's your thoughts on that kind of context?
- [10:21]
Stephanie Hanlon
Yeah, I appreciate that. I think what comes up for me is one of my strengths, I think, and I think maybe yours as well, and us as a couple, is that we're willing to be misunderstood. And I remember the first time I heard that phrase is that are you willing to be misunderstood in the context of your life? And I think it kind of relates to this quote, is that, yes, I'm willing to be disliked, but, you know, as a human being, I kind of want to be liked sometimes. But where I am, where, where I do draw the line is I'm willing to be misunderstood because sometimes I bumble around and, and, and try to, to find my words and try to express myself in ways that, whether it's through writing or saying things or, or, or using my intuition and trying to hook into the future of, you know, I have all these weird kind of things that happen in my world, but I'm also really comfortable if I'm not understood. And I think in that willingness to be misunderstood, what happens is that there's curiosity. And the people that are trying to understand me, if they're more curious and say, oh, tell me more, or what are you trying to say, Stephanie? Or what is it that you say? See, what is your intuit? What's your gut saying? And that space allows me to kind of dig up what is what is what I'm actually trying to figure out and trying to say, because I do know that I have this really weird innate ability to see into the future, to see. I connect dots really well, but sometimes I don't articulate it very well. And that's what makes me a little bit socially awkward. So when I go to parties, you know, it's really interesting because I, I don't, I, I, I'm drawn to the other introverts, the other ambiverts in the room. Very rarely am I drawn to the extroverts. And it's really interesting that when the ones that can draw me into a conversation, it actually grounds me into what it is that I'm trying to say. And then I become less confused or less even misunderstanding myself what it is that I'm trying to say. So I think there's a lot of people out there like me who have some intuition, have some Instincts and are seeing things and are connecting the dots, but are afraid to say it because they're not willing to be misunderstood or they want to be liked more than they want to be heard and grounded.
- [12:41]
Patrick
Interesting, too, is that, you know, I wonder though, is from a woman's point of view, is some of that what happens with you? Over the years, I've observed and because you've done a lot in men's sport and men's professional sport, and then you have your female, so you bump up against that as well. So not only are you looking at the world through a different lens just because of how you look at the world, but then you're looking at that lens and you're a female. Often in a man's world, and I observed over the years myself, is that I'm really drawn to and attracted to really powerful women. I love bold, smart, kind of. I don't know. I don't know if the word is assertive or just. I like that really clear female who is a leader. Like, I love women CEOs. I think they're awesome. I love the way they think. I love the way they show up. For me, that's, you know, and I'm. And I'm. I can really get behind women who are willing to kind of take it on that way. Now, this isn't meant to be a male female, but I'm wondering from your perspective as a woman, what. What's your kind of thoughts on that? What do you see?
- [13:57]
Stephanie Hanlon
Yeah, that's a really good point. And you know what's really awesome is that you have always loved powerful women. I think that's what you saw in me early on, like 35 years ago when we first met, is I was such an outlier. I was so weird. And, you know, I.
- [14:12]
Patrick
You're still weird.
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Stephanie Hanlon
I'm still weird.
- [14:13]
Patrick
No mistake. You're still put in a good way.
- [14:16]
Stephanie Hanlon
I think what it is is that when a powerful man can see the. The. The sacred feminine and also not deny the fact that the masculine qualities of assertiveness or creativity or wanting to put yourself out there in the world, because that creates a unique balance, and I think a unique balance between the male and female, the masculine feminine, the man and the woman. I think that's again, the charge and the. And the spark that is about creativity. And I think what's happening right now in the world is that a lot of that spark is being dimmed or minimized. And even this whole gender dysphoria thing is really sad. And, you know, I think it's important to look at and to bring forward. But ultimately, we, as people, we have a balance of masculine and feminine in us. So what happened with me is because I was always drawn. I grew up around men. I played baseball, I golfed. I hung out with the hockey guys all the time. Even when I figure skated or did the quote, unquote, female things, I always felt drawn to more of the masculine energy, but I never questioned it, and I never minimized that side of myself. So when I ended up with the Edmonton Oilers, for example, um, and I was the only woman other than the. The amazing women in the office, I was the only woman that was ever allowed in a dressing room. And that was, to me, a huge honor because it gave me insight into the truth of the differences between men and women. And we are different. We create differently, we act differently, we communicate differently. And I got to be a fly on the wall and an observer, and I didn't have to insert myself or insert my femininity or try to be one of the guys. And I think that's another thing that I learned from my mom, is that when you are invited into that world, just no different than when you're invited into a hen party or a group of women like you were the last couple of years with us on the compound here is that it was all of us women and Patrick, you know, but here's.
- [16:22]
Patrick
Here's where I want to go with this, is that, yes, I get all what you've said, but really, when we. I want to go back to what the topic is, which is around, you know, the prison of other people's opinions. So you, as a female in a male world was just one example that if you were caught or got stuck in this, I wonder what the men think of me, then that would be really limiting. You probably wouldn't have done as well and achieved as much as you've achieved if you were stuck in this conversation about what others are thinking about you now. That's not to say that you didn't care. It's just that you also had to run the line of going, well, listen, I got to show up and be who I am. Otherwise, I'm giving my power away. And my role is to look after my clients and not give my power away. And so some of what I'm doing, how I'm showing up, the fact that I'm female in a male world is probably going to have some judgment and piss some people off, which it did. But you had to kind of stay true to what you were there to do and what you wanted to do, and you couldn't be. You couldn't be shut down by the judgment of the men, many of them very traditional. What the hell's a woman doing here? And who are you to be a woman? You've never played hockey or you've never played at this level. Whatever the story was, the point is, is that if you were stuck in and not being able to move forward because you were worried of the opinion of others, that would be a problem.
- [17:46]
Stephanie Hanlon
Yeah. And you're right. And I think what was helpful is that I didn't care in that I couldn't care because I was more committed to my job than I was to them liking me. And early on, you know, I realized at one point when even the culture differences. So we. Back in the days with the Oilers, we had a lot of European, Eastern European players that got drafted into the team. And I remember at the end of one practice one day, I was sitting there and I had my whistle and my, you know, coffee breath and, like, no makeup and my tracksuit that was way too big. And, you know, I just remember asking at the end of the session, does anybody have any questions? I said, we just. We just broke down some skills skating stuff. I'm working with injured players, and we did a couple of line drills and some cardio. And I said, anybody have any questions? And there was three guys, I think they were from the Czech Republic, and they kind of went into a little scrum and. And I go, oh, hey, guys, did you have a question? And one of them that spoke the best English goes, you won't make with us? I went, what? What? So the whole time I'm there as their skating coach, I'm being paid by the Edmonton Oilers to work on their skating and their strength and their conditioning, and all they wanted to know is if I won't make with them. And I went, oh, my God, this is so funny. And I laughed and. But was actually really cool is it was a couple of the guys, the North American guys, that kind of turned around and just kind of put the barrier up and said, you know, that's a barrier you don't cross in their world. I'd proven myself. I wasn't looking for a husband. I wasn't looking to get laid out. They knew that I was there for a specific purpose. And I really appreciate the guys that stood up with me, but I also didn't take offense. And I think that's the other thing, is that sometimes women in a men's world, they take offense or they think that we should be equal and we're not, we're so different. And I was grateful for the guys that stood up for me, but at the same time I also knew that the guys from Eastern Europe had no like, relatedness to why a woman would be on the ice with a pro hockey team.
- [19:48]
Patrick
Well, that becomes a cultural thing too, right? Often gets in the way of what's going on is some culture. The conversation is not about women, men, all the rest of it. It is really about being able to be your best self, live your best life, and being true to who you really are and not being so much at the effect of what others are thinking about you. Now, in any kind of business situation or career situation, you maybe want to impress, but are you able to show up and be authentic and still achieve the result that you want to achieve? That's the first part of it. Secondly is that sometimes it is in the courage to show up and be who you truly are and to show up in that way. And sometimes you're not going to be liked for it. You're not going to be in an environment or with a group of people or person that likes your view of the world. And you're going to have to be okay with the fact that. Or can you be okay? That's the question. Can you be okay with that? Or are you going to hold back? Are you going to adjust your opinion, your view of the world? Are you going to take a different approach because you want to be liked as opposed to being able to do what it is that you're trying to do? And so I don't know quite where I'm going with it in an explanation other than to say where do we limit ourselves? Because we're worried about what other people think of us. And that's really the kind of the key here. So there's one more. I'm going to use you as an example today because by the time this gets released, you'll be in Colorado Springs. You're receiving a very coveted award from the Olympic Paralympic Committee for the USA Coach of the Year. Really kind of cool. And I don't remember what the name of the award is. We'll just take a minute to do that. What is that award again?
- [21:32]
Stephanie Hanlon
It's a dot Councilman.
- [21:33]
Patrick
Yes.
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Stephanie Hanlon
Award.
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Patrick
Yeah. So innovation, technology, all the things that you've done. Now, what's interesting about that is that we go back to. You're going to be speaking to several hundred people. You've got a keynote that you're going to do on the award, accepting the award. You're going to do a kind of a thing about what got you there and some of the dynamics that you're going to use to say, hey, you know, you coaches can do that too, because you're speaking to a room full of your peers, arguably of other coaches, of other individuals, many who have achieved a lot of really cool things, not this particular level of award, but who want to achieve this level of award. So you've got to share with them. Now, there's two parts to this. Number one, you got to share some insights into how you showed up, some of the things that you had to overcome, some of the ways that you had to see the world in order to move forward, number one. Number two is there's going to be a whole bunch of coaches probably in that audience going, what the hell? I've worked harder than her. I'm more connected than her. Whatever they're going to maybe have, they may not have, but some of them are going to have an opinion for sure that maybe isn't in the best light. And you got to not care. You got to go. Okay, got it. I'm just going to share with you my journey, how I showed up. Here's some of the things that I've done and this is what's worked for me, and it's one of the reasons I'm here. So. But having said all that, if you cared about what the opinion of is of the audience is, or many in the audience or some in the audience, that might shut you down. So what's your thoughts on that?
- [23:09]
Stephanie Hanlon
Oh, yeah, totally did. Even last year, you know, I was really, really blessed. I won the 2024 technology award for US figure skating. So this is kind of the next level up. This is winter and summer sports through the US Olympic Committee. So somehow I got nominated. So I'm back to back award winner and some friends of ours, Tyson and Nikki Davis, and took me for dinner after. And she's a figure skating coach. And of course, Tyson's a hockey coach. Very, very successful, very well known in the, in the Colorado area. Take me for dinner. And Nikki said to me, you know what? I was sitting there and I realized that a bunch of the coaches that I work with couldn't believe that they gave the award to a Canadian.
- [23:52]
Patrick
Wow.
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Stephanie Hanlon
That part never even occurred to me because I was there. I'm working with US Athletes, I'm working with Georgian athletes and, and Canadian athletes and British athletes. And I'm just committed to coaching. So I wasn't thinking of myself as a Canadian. I was thinking of myself just as a service provider, somebody who is really committed to the development of these young people, not just as athletes, but as human beings. But when she said that, I realized that if I led with that, if I led with needing to be liked or included, then I probably wouldn't have been standing there accepting the award last year or the one this year, because I have to put my clients first, I have to put the skaters first, I have to put the sport first. Because if I don't, then I don't have a place. I don't have a job. I don't have a place to make a contribution. And what I realized is that I couldn't lower my standards. I couldn't, like, drop into, oh, my gosh, this is about me, and I care about what these people think. And on the flip side, what really hit me is that that is where their limits were. I also, you know, back in the day, I had a friend who had done everything right. You know, she did all the right courses, she did everything in the national level, et cetera. And she never got to the Olympic Games. And she accused me of being a Q jumper, of cheating or doing things that were unethical or whatever. But what I really got to is that she was more committed to being angry at me and my success than she was to figuring out her own journey. And I think that's what I heard when I had dinner with Tyson and Nikki is that I really had to sit with it because I thought, you know, if they're angry at me, a, that's their excuse, that I'm Canadian. Oh, okay. But I'm also a coach without borders. We've been working with Ice Academy, Montreal, with all the hockey, everybody around the world, without borders. We've been working with athletes and human beings, and yes, some of them represent different countries. But what I really got when she was telling me that is that that's where people stop, and that's their limiting belief. So if they don't want to be an Olympian, fine. If they do want to be an Olympian or whatever it is and coach Olympic athletes, then they're going to have to bump into their own limiting beliefs. And that's one of them, is that they couldn't be happy or be gracious because somebody that they didn't like or didn't know won an award. So I see. I saw that as a limiting belief.
- [26:19]
Patrick
Well, there's something that I want to expand on this. So those are limiting beliefs. And this goes back to being in the prison of our mind. So I want to just quickly touch on something. So there was, and I'd wrote a article on a guy by the name of Shaka Senghor. He's now a best selling author. He's got a really cool story, spent 19 years in prison. Seven of those were in solitary confinement, right? So he had a lot of time to think. But one of the realizations that he had, aside from being behind bars in prison, was the fact that he was behind bars in the prison of his mind. And when he kind of came out of prison and had had that time to think, he said, I'm going to rewrite my narrative. And this is where it gets interesting. Because of the way he positioned it. When being in the business that we are in, the real estate investment network, supporting those achieving and wanting to achieve financial freedom, et cetera, we often say, well, why? Well, many times they're saying, well, I want to leave a legacy for my children. And that legacy represents wealth, money. That's the legacy. Now what this like was Shaka left. What he got to was the legacy wasn't about money. It was about the legacy of who he was as a father for his children. So he realized that his legacy for his children was that he was in jail for 20 years and, and had committed all these crimes, and that's why he was in jail. So he had just made the decision to rewrite his narrative, to change his story and redefine his legacy, that he would leave his children. So he had to break free from the constraints that had kind of kept him locked in the prison of his mind. So back even to those individuals, they're in their own little prison, the story that they're telling themselves about, you're lucky or you cheated or you did something different than they did, but the legacy they're leaving is about them, not about you. So when we look at the context of what we're ramping into is called everyday success. And the journey is about discovering that true freedom begins in our mind. You don't need bars of jail to feel imprisoned. We can be stuck in our head. And that's really what we're trying to help people break free. Our own journey is that, you know, is how do we break free and have our own narrative, our own story, our own legacy of what we and who we are and what we can achieve? You know, so goes back to the fundamentals. You know, start blaming, stop blaming, stop complaining, start owning and having accountability for your life. And that was One of the things that he really took on. So I share all of that understanding that when we're worried about whether others are thinking we are limiting our story that we can write. What is the legacy that we want to live? And, you know, gaining the knowledge, testing the waters, testing our limits, getting uncomfortable, making change that aligns with what we want to achieve, who we want to be, our values. And that is going to leave people probably judging it. And in the world of everyday success, one step at a time, you move forward anyways. That is breaking free from the opinions of others because it's one that holds so many back. Because the opinions of others are not generally people you don't know. You don't care about them. You don't even know that they know about you. You're worried about what your friends, your family, your peers will think of you or what you think they're thinking of you. And so that is where we can get stuck. That is also very limiting. So we ask ourselves, what is the legacy we want to leave? And, you know, when we leave, when we're on our deathbed, what are we going to say? I hope people like me, I don't know, will you be thinking that?
- [30:21]
Stephanie Hanlon
No, I won't be. When I'm thinking about my deathbed? No. I would like to remember maybe some of the people's lives that I affected, but I don't really care what they think.
- [30:33]
Patrick
So what is the legacy you want to leave? And if it's not, you know, in this context, you know, the legacy is about who you want to be to your children, your family, you know, maybe your peers. Years ago, when we did the work with demartini, was really interesting, and it was like, it's still to this day. So kind of, what do you want people to be saying about you in a hundred years from now?
- [30:56]
Stephanie Hanlon
Yeah, right.
- [30:58]
Patrick
A hundred years from now. A thousand years from now. So when you think about some of the greatest leaders in the world, you know, a hundred years later, what are people saying about them? You know, what is. What is the legacy they left? So it's a kind of a lean into that one is a big conversation.
- [31:14]
Stephanie Hanlon
I like that. That's good.
- [31:16]
Patrick
Okay, so as we wind down, what's the lesson that we want to give here? What's the thought process? Where are you limiting yourself because of the concerns you have of what people.
- [31:28]
Stephanie Hanlon
Will think about you or might think about you? I think the biggest thing for me.
- [31:32]
Patrick
You think they're thinking about you.
- [31:34]
Stephanie Hanlon
They're not.
- [31:34]
Patrick
They're not.
- [31:35]
Stephanie Hanlon
That's the thing they're worried about themselves and that's the thing is that when we realize that they're not thinking about me, they're thinking about themselves. Themselves and what they want to do and and if I can hook into that and I can support other people achieving their dreams then maybe I'll care about what they think about me.
- [31:51]
Patrick
Yes. End of the day, know thyself. Be true to thyself. Stephanie thank you.
- [31:58]
Stephanie Hanlon
That was fun hon.
- [32:01]
Patrick
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening. If you found value in the podcast please take the time to rate and and review and share with others. Share with your friends as it is my goal to always improve and to provide the highest value for you, the listener. If you have any comments, suggestions or questions you'd like answered please email me@ceorsaincanada.com that's C E O R E I N Canada.com I look forward to hearing from you and until next time time Patrick goes.