Mindset Matters - Episode #187 - Trapped by Comfort: The Region Beta Paradox Explained - The Everyday Millionaire and Mindset Matters Podcast

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[00:00]
Fred
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[00:30]
Talkspace Sponsor
This podcast is sponsored by TalkSP. May is mental Health Awareness Month and Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider, is telling everyone let's face it in therapy by talking or texting with a supportive licensed therapist at Talkspace, you can face whatever is holding you back. Whether it's mental health symptoms, relationship drama, past trauma, bad habits or another challenge that you need support to work through, it's easy to sign up. Just go to talkspace.com and you'll be paired with a provider typically within 48 hours. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule. Plus, Talkspace is in network with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. Make your mental health a priority and start today. If you're not covered by Insurance, get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80. That's S P A CE83. To match with a licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com and Enter promo code SPACE80.
[01:34]
Patrick
Hi there and welcome to this episode of the Everyday Millionaire Mindset Matters podcast where I'm joined by my wife, Olympic mental performance coach Stephanie Hanlon. Francie in these episodes, Stephanie and I have a conversation about the different aspects of what we refer to as Mindset Matters. Because we believe that for those who are awake, we are living in and through the most impactful time in history. Your view of the world is the filter for how you will experience the evolution and changing dynamics of it. Our intention is to provide you with ideas, nutritious food for thought, and some tools that you can use to help you in being your greatest self and living your best life. Listen in, Enjoy. Hey there and welcome to Mindset Matters, where we challenge old thinking, explore new perspectives, and help you design a life that aligns with who you are truly meant to be. Stephanie, welcome.
[02:33]
Stephanie Hanlon
Hey hon.
[02:34]
Patrick
So lots of ground to cover and we just came off I just came off a Great weekend. Expand weekend. Got to hang out with some old friends, hang out with JG Francour, you know, who, of course, I've been on stage with hundreds of times. We were at an event, the Expand event with Alfonso Cuatra and Wealth Genius team and Helene Cuatra, and we had so much fun. I think there's probably 400 people at the event, and it was just a blast. But it leads me to what I want to talk about today. And that was awesome. But I want to ask you something. You are, you know, a best in the world at what you do. You won. You were given an award. Now you've had it for a while. You are literally the US Olympic Paralympic Committee Coach of the Year in all sports, which we've talked about before, but now you've kind of worn that hat for a little while. What are you thinking about it? Do you kind of finally own it?
[03:37]
Stephanie Hanlon
Yeah, it was quite the experience. And when going through that, and then post, coming home from Colorado and then stepping into the Brian and Nellie Kyle and Brittany Pullis event was quite the, I guess, the mirror, you know, as to. I mean, we've been talking about the limiting beliefs, et cetera, and I was really able to bump into a lot of mine. But over the last little while, I realized that when I settle into it and really get that, it. It's just an award. It's. It's outside of me. It's acknowledgement and meant a lot. But then I still had to come home and wash the floor and feed the dogs and, you know, put. Put gas in the car, and it's like no one really gave a shit, you know, it was really awesome. So the perspective was there, and it was. It was pretty special these last couple of weeks.
[04:26]
Patrick
So hence the quote, before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After Enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.
[04:35]
Stephanie Hanlon
Same thing. You know, after the award, chop wood, carry water. No, nothing really changes.
[04:42]
Patrick
Okay, so I got a couple of quotes I want to lead off with, so how about this one? Ambition is when you expect yourself to close the gap between what you have and what you want. Entitlement is when you expect others to close the gap between what you have and what you want.
[05:00]
Stephanie Hanlon
Oh, wow. Okay, read that again. Don't step over that. Read it again.
[05:03]
Patrick
Okay, so ambition is when you expect yourself to close the gap between what you have and what you want. Entitlement is when you expect others to do. So.
[05:13]
Stephanie Hanlon
I don't think there's going to be a lot of people that like that quote.
[05:15]
Patrick
No, but. No, because, well, There's. I don't know, I don't think we have a lot of people that are thinking they're entitled listening to the podcast. So I think it's just an interesting. I thought it was a cool kind of quote.
[05:25]
Stephanie Hanlon
I realize that there's times where, you know, I really want you to be the reason that I'm successful or that I suck. And you never are.
[05:34]
Patrick
There you go. So nobody's going to show up and rescue you. That's the bottom line. Okay, so I'm going to. I was going to kind of see if I could fool you, but I know I could on this one. So there's an interesting term, and it's called region beta paradox. Region beta paradox. You know what that is?
[05:56]
Stephanie Hanlon
Nope.
[05:57]
Patrick
Okay, so here's the fundamental. So the region beta paradox. So imagine that you were to walk a mile or less. And so you would just walk it because it's less than a mile. And if you were to go to more than a mile, however, you would drive it. So paradoxically, you would go two miles much faster than you would go one mile.
[06:22]
Stephanie Hanlon
True.
[06:23]
Patrick
Which is to say that what it really means is that sometimes worse situations can be better than better situations. So in other words, sometimes worse situations can be better than better situations. So driving the two miles is considered, you know, consider you're having to go two miles. So it's a worse situation having to travel two miles, but it's actually better because you're driving it. You follow that thought process.
[06:53]
Stephanie Hanlon
Okay, got it. Yep.
[06:55]
Patrick
So it's also an issue if we apply that into our normal life. So when. If you decide to act after you cross a certain threshold of badness or whatever that might be, you can end up being stuck in what's called region beta. So let's keep unpacking this. I'll give you more examples. So, for instance, we've all met that friend, and maybe we're that person that should actually leave their job. And in fact, they really, really need to leave the job. They're miserable. But the problem is it's pretty passable. You know, the boss isn't that big an asshole. Benefits are okay. It doesn't really light you up, but it's not that bad. That would be a cool. That's one example. Okay. A person that's in a relationship with someone that they don't really want to stay with, and it's not brilliant, but it's not bad. So, you know, it's not like they're being abused or something like that. Everything's all right, so the person stays, for example, in an apartment. It's got peeling wallpaper, but it's not that bad. Maybe a little mold on the ceiling and the landlord doesn't look after it, but it's not that bad. So people stay in those circumstances. The reality of it is, all those examples that I gave. The reality of it is that if those individuals were giving more difficult situations, it would actually get them off their ass and they'd actually do something about it. But they're in this what we'll call comfortable world of complacency. And so they're in the middle, and we can all find ourselves there, by the way. And they. The point is, is that comfortable complacency is that space where it's not that bad, it's not great, so you don't do anything. There's no real problem to solve. It's not that bad, so there's not a lot of energy to want to change it so it's passable, so you end up being comfortably numb. That is called the region beta paradox, and it's a counterintuitive psychological phenomena, if you were. And where worse situations can lead to an actual faster, better recovery of what you got going on than sitting in the middle. You follow?
[09:25]
Stephanie Hanlon
Holy cow. That's like, mind blown. Like, it's so true. I mean, we talk about it on the surface. It's like, you know, committing to mediocrity or, you know, being comfortable and, and. And living in your comfort zone. And we talk about that on a surface level. But I think, you know, as you and I have been digging in deeper into some of the work that we're doing is that this is something that I think we can really dig into and, and talk about, because this is beyond, you know, striving to be mediocre. This is actually choosing a less fulfilling life on purpose. But, but do we know that driving that extra mile would be better than walking that one mile? Like, until we maybe have social proof or we have some kind of data. How do we know that? Like, how do we know that this just isn't good enough?
[10:18]
Patrick
Okay, but let's. Well, that. But that's sometimes the issue. And that's where, you know, the universe steps up and says, okay, well, I've whispered and I'm going to turn up the volume. So here, let me keep going through this a little bit and give you some.
[10:30]
Talkspace Sponsor
And.
[10:31]
Patrick
Because it really applies. And the reason I'm bringing it up is because I witnessed it this weekend and I realized that we've never given it that title. You know, region beta paradox. But we deal with it as coaches all the time. Let me give you another example. And I've had this experience, like we've all experienced this. So comfortable complacency, right? So we're. We're sitting there, it's not that bad. We'd like to do more, but it's okay. We get into that world how. Now let me give you an example of this. I've had my, what I refer to my entrepreneurial accident. So we go back accidents. But let's just talk to my big one that really set it off was in. Back in 1983, 1984. So I'm in this scenario. I'm in the oil and gas industry. Politics come in, shut down the oil and gas industry in Alberta and a job that I'd had, a corporate job that I'd had, which I'd learned a ton of, but I was really kind of bored with it. It wasn't like it was good but not great, but it wasn't so bad. And the money was pretty good and, you know, I had a pretty good lifestyle with it, so it was okay. But here's the thing, what happened? Oil and gas industry gets shut down, leads to a huge downturn in the province, which leads to me getting laid off. All of a sudden I go from comfortable complacency to thrown out into this world of holy crap. I got to make a living. I've got to earn an income. Alberta economy is shut down, unemployment rates 14%. And now I got to get off my ass and figure some out. It put me into a situation where I had to recover, I had to step up, I had to do something. So I get out of comfortable complacency to real huge discomfort and holy cow, I got a fire to put out. And then out of that, it was. I really unfolded for me was the entrepreneurial accident. And then on the journey I go. But the point is, is that imagine if that wouldn't have happened. So by being thrown into the fire, I had to react and get some stuff done. Right. You follow?
[12:43]
Stephanie Hanlon
Yeah, I'm totally following.
[12:44]
Patrick
So when you think about, you know, when we're working with clients and or were in. I'll use this weekend as an example. There was a lot of really fired up individuals wanting to learn how to invest in real estate. And there are many of them that are taking huge action. Like, it's awesome. But there's those individuals that I think I realize now because we talk about it all the time. What's your why? What's your why? What's your why? What you're really trying to do is get people out of comfortable complacency.
[13:16]
Stephanie Hanlon
Ever look at your bank account and just go, why? You're smart, you work hard, but when it comes to money, you avoid it like an exit Whole Foods and can't seem to get ahead. Maybe you think building wealth is only for the rich or people with six figure inheritances. That's not true. You don't need a finance degree to get good with money. You just need a plan and someone to break it down like a friend and not a spreadsheet. That's what Million L is all about. Real talk, real steps and no shame. That's million plus E L L E. Region beta paradox. Okay, this is coming together.
[13:50]
Patrick
You follow what I'm saying? Yeah, we just have a title for it. We've, we've witnessed it for years. We just didn't have a kind of a box for it, you know? So the reality of it is, is that now that I have a. It was a kind of an epiphany like, oh, this is what we're dealing with. It. We're dealing with. So we call it comfortable. We don't realize that it's comfortable complacency, although we know we don't have a name for it. And we certainly don't know what, you know, region beta. I've lost the term paradox. Region beta paradoxes. So we have never had a kind of a psychological name for it or whatever that might be. But the point of it is that if, if we get thrown into the fire, we will actually get through it, come out the other side of it and quite likely be better for it. If we don't, we stay stuck. So then we put all these things in place. We need inspiration, we need motivation, we need a bigger why we have all these things, but the ultimate kind of light that we shine on things in terms of mindset and in terms of understanding ourselves and what's in our way. We have to ask ourselves a question. We seek comfort as human beings. We want to be comfortable. Not everybody's David Goggin, who's kind of the extreme, off the charts guy, but you know what I'm saying? So think about that. So comfortable complacency. And I realize that that's a point of entry for anybody looking at what they've got going on right now. If you're listening to this, you ask yourself, we seek comfort. We don't by nature. We don't Want to be uncomfortable. You know, I use the, you know, my own awareness of being in the shower and going, oh, I don't want to get out of the shower. And I mean, why don't I want to get out of the shower? Well, because I'm going to get out of the shower and it's going to be chilly. It's going to be cold, it's going to be uncomfortable. You know, I'm going from 104 degrees to, you know, whatever, 72 degrees. And so in the moment it feels really, really chilly. It's uncomfortable. So we constantly seek comfort. We stay in that comfort. And unless we're really inspired in some way, unless we've got something really kind of that is going to drive us to take action, which could be, you know, shit hitting the fan somewhere in our life, we are going to. Or we're at risk of being in the region beta paradox. Okay, so I've said a lot. What's your thoughts on this?
[16:24]
Stephanie Hanlon
Okay, totally mind blown. Because it's so true. Um, I just had this, a call with a client last week, an ice dance client. And one of the things and one of the words that they use all the time is, you know, it just wasn't comfortable. And I need him to do this or I need her to do this because I need to be more comfortable in this hold or this move or this lift. I'm like, well, what if you didn't need to be comfortable? Like, seeking comfort seems to me like almost like a downhill plan. Like discomfort and uncertainty for me seems to be the champions way or the mind shui way. Like when you think about moving forward, there is a bit of a discomfort in that. But the awareness of helping people see where they're demanding and seeking and really trying to stay comfortable is a real challenge and I think people feel it innately. Human beings were not designed to be comfortable. We're not designed to stay static. I mean, think about it. We wouldn't have evolved the way that we've evolved. If you believe in evolution. I don't know, but we wouldn't have evolved to the place where we can now, you know, be using AI to make us more comfortable or to make us more, you know, satiate.
[17:36]
Patrick
I. Well, yeah, but AI makes us more efficient. I don't know that AI is about seeking comfort. It's.
[17:41]
Stephanie Hanlon
I think it's going to be. I think eventually there's going to be kids sitting on their couch with their big little, you know, big meta goggles.
[17:47]
Patrick
On and no, with your robots serving You.
[17:50]
Stephanie Hanlon
Right. You know, so that to me is. Is. Yes, but I mean, we still have, I think now, enough of the human spirit that if we can actually shine a light on something like this and for people to go, oh, my God, you're right. I just keep circling back to wanting to be comfortable, wanting to be comfortable, wanting to be comfortable. And if I'm not comfortable, then something must be wrong. And that's what I think is so interesting about what you just said.
[18:14]
Patrick
There's a. I had made a note that comfort is where dreams go to stall.
[18:22]
Stephanie Hanlon
Or go to die.
[18:24]
Patrick
Well, they may go to die. Yeah, they could die there. But so there's a couple things around all this, and I've used this analogy a hundred times, but. And I keep going back to it in conversations with people that approach me at the events, and we have conversations about maybe where they're feeling stuck or, you know, it's harder than they thought it was, and all the rest of it, and we still come back to a fundamental about life and about business and about achieving goals, is that you cannot grow and get stronger by constantly being comfortable. And if we don't challenge ourselves, we don't get stronger. As a matter of fact, if we don't have what we'll call failures, if we don't have setbacks, if we don't have challenges to overcome, we don't get stronger. Everybody is afraid and says they're afraid of failure. And we, you know, we often get into the psychology of that and saying, well, no, you're not really afraid of failure. You're afraid of what the judgment is, of what you think people will think of you, your peers, your friends, your family, etc. That's one aspect of it. But there's also another aspect of it, is I use the analogy about going to the gym. You want to go to the gym, you want to get stronger, you want to get fitter, you know, which means you have to lift more weight. And lifting more weight can be uncomfortable. As a matter of fact, you can try and lift more weight and actually fail at it. And so although the consequences of it are dropped weight, the point of it is. So it doesn't seem so bad. The reality of it is, is in. In real life, in business, in trying to achieve a goal, you are in fact going to have to stress yourself. You're going to have to push your limits, and you're going to have to lift more weight than you're comfortable lifting. And that's the only way you get stronger. Leaning into projects that Maybe your competency level or your skill level where you have to develop the competency or you have to develop the skill. And part of developing the competency and the skill is falling down, failing, having to start again, you know, you follow what I'm saying? So I do. Yeah.
[20:23]
Stephanie Hanlon
I think there's also. Oh, sorry, go ahead.
[20:25]
Patrick
No, you go ahead.
[20:26]
Stephanie Hanlon
There's also something that I've been really focusing on recently and, you know, and I think about my hockey development program is, you know, quantum speed. Quantum means the smallest possible change to get the biggest result. And the smallest possible change can be the most difficult and can be the most uncomfortable because it's not how I do it. It's not how I've learned it. And when you break things down into its component parts, it can be difficult. And I was thinking, I was watching something the other day, and it's like, well, what if we just do the hard part first? Because I think what happens is most people are seeking the easy way, or, you know, we had a conversation, you know, in the last little while with some staff is they just want it to be easy or comfortable or more organized, and they want it to be more corporate, like in the, you know, in the world of small business. And so where they're at is wrong. And so what I would like to really dig into is to how do we make the hard part, the. The two kilometer, you know, ride and, and. And be okay with driving it and being good at it and do the hard part first. Because in my world, when I did the hard part first or, you know, do you remember the. The marshmallow test where the kids were saying if they can not eat the marshmallow.
[21:41]
Patrick
So describe the marshmallow test so that people listening can understand. Not everybody knows the marshmallow test. So describe it. And just. I'll say up front that I would always fail the marshmallow test, guaranteed. But go ahead.
[21:54]
Stephanie Hanlon
And I would always pass it, and I'd have like 16 marshmallows and I would just sit there and stare at them.
[21:58]
Patrick
Okay, so describe the marshmallow test.
[22:01]
Stephanie Hanlon
Okay. From what I understand is that a group of researchers took some three and four year olds, who of course are the most.
[22:08]
Talkspace Sponsor
This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. May is Mental health awareness Month, and Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider, is telling everyone, let's face it, in therapy, by talking or texting with a supportive licensed therapist at Talkspace, you can face whatever is holding you back, whether it's mental health symptoms, relationship drama, past trauma, bad habits, or another challenge that you need support to work through. It's easy to sign up. Just go to talkspace.com and you'll be paired with a provider, typically within 48 hours. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule. Plus, Talkspace is in network with most major insurers, and most insured members have a $0 copay. Make your mental health a priority and start today. If you're not covered by Insurance, get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80. That's S, P, A, C, E80. To match with a licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com and Enter promo code SPACE80.
[23:08]
Stephanie Hanlon
Beautiful and. And. And truthful animals on the beam, Right? So they said, okay. They, they laid them out and they said, okay, here you go. You can eat this marshmallow.
[23:19]
Patrick
They put two marshmallows in front of them or one marshmallow.
[23:22]
Stephanie Hanlon
No, they put, they put. They put one marshmallow.
[23:24]
Patrick
Yeah.
[23:25]
Stephanie Hanlon
So you can eat this marshmallow now and we're good to go. Or you can wait and I'm going to leave the room for, you know, 30 seconds or a minute, and I'm going to come back and if you haven't eaten that marshmallow, I'm going to give you a second marshmallow and you're going to have two.
[23:42]
Patrick
Yes.
[23:43]
Stephanie Hanlon
Right. So the marshmallow test. So what they were saying in theory, and this is kind of the anecdotal data, is that the, the kids that ate the marshmallow, that they were not able to manage their instant gratification, and the kids that were able to look at marshmallow feel the discomfort, feel that uncertainty. I don't know if there's going to be a second marshmallow. Oh, my gosh. But what if there is? So that, to me, is the delayed gratification piece when it comes to this. So when I think about the marshmallow test is, can you delay gratification to see and do the hard part first? Does that make sense?
[24:17]
Patrick
Yeah. See, I would fail the marshmallow test not because I seek gratification first, but because it's food. Now, if that was. If you would.
[24:25]
Stephanie Hanlon
Popcorn maybe too. Same thing.
[24:28]
Patrick
No, but if it wasn't food, like if you put money in front of me or you put something like that in front of me and said, okay, you know, here's 10 bucks. Don't touch it and, you know, I'll come back in a few minutes later and if there's still 10 bucks there, I might add. I might add to the pot.
[24:45]
Stephanie Hanlon
Right. But think about it. How we do one thing is how we do all things.
[24:49]
Patrick
I don't agree with that.
[24:51]
Stephanie Hanlon
I do. I do. And honestly. Honestly, you don't be telling me that if 10 bucks is sitting there and then the guy comes back and gives you another 10 bucks, I think you'd go and spend that 10 bucks. I really do, because it's a quality and I love that about you. But don't get me wrong, we're different in that. Like, I honestly, when I look around, I think that's partly why I'm a bit of a hoarder and is that I just don't feel like I need to eat things or say, like, I can save, I can invest, I can do all those things. Because I'm looking at the longer picture and I'm not about instant gratification. I wish I was. On some levels, I wish I was more like you that way.
[25:27]
Patrick
So where were we going with the marshmallow test? So the instant gratification beta region, beta par paradox. Paradox, how does that fit into the region beta paradox? Comfort.
[25:38]
Stephanie Hanlon
Yep.
[25:39]
Patrick
We seek comfort.
[25:40]
Stephanie Hanlon
Delayed gratification.
[25:42]
Patrick
Delayed gratification.
[25:43]
Stephanie Hanlon
Because even when you think about it, it would take longer to walk the mile than it does to drive two miles. Yes, but you have to then be willing to give up the walk and give up a bit of the struggle or a bit or the experience of the walk. Right. If you're wanting to get there faster and have a different result, then you would drive. So the paradox in that, I think, goes a lot. Well, not a lot, but maybe a little deeper than I think we even have scratched the surf on surface on right now. Because how many times have we looked at what it would take to do something faster? That's the paradox. Do something faster, get a different result. But what you are giving up on some level is maybe a bit of the journey or something that it is that you want. So there's a. There's a paradox in that as well.
[26:33]
Patrick
All I know is that when I think about that whole concept is you start to realize just what keeps us stuck. So this goes back to, you know, how do we bust through that and realize that we have to be in this place of discomfort? We have to go through the discomfort. We have to lean into it. We have to solve bigger problems if we want to have bigger results. And it is a bit of a mind screw, let's face it. And so, you know, as I lean into and we take the everyday millionaire, this podcast mindset matters. And kind of, for me, leaning into writing the book and to developing the program, the everyday success, and, you know, understanding that I want really to kind of develop the whole concept about mind shui, you know, feng shui for the mind, which is about decluttering, creating flow, creating energy. That's what feng shui is all about. So feng shui for the mind, hence mind shui and the mind shui, wei is a way of thinking, it's a way of being. That entails and includes understanding that being uncomfortable is part of growth. And we fight for comfort, which is just totally so bizarre. And I'm not suggesting that we all want a comfortable bed, we all want to stay warm, we want to do all those things. But. But data absolutely supports the reality that people who are doing things that, by the way, they perceive as hard. So, in other words, you know, you may do something that you find easy, and I find hard, and vice versa. But if we perceive something as hard but we do it anyways, that's where our brain fires differently, and we actually can. That is getting uncomfortable for whatever it is for what I do some things that I find very simple, very easy for me, which you would go, no, that will take me all day to do, so it'd be really uncomfortable for you. So we see those scenarios. The point of it is that in developing the mindset, in developing our brain, in clearing the clutter, if you will, it means that we actually have to accept the fact that. That doing hard things is good for us and even things that we perceive as hard. So we'll use the example, is that people cannot get into a routine of working out. And I mean, I work out, and then I don't work out. I still need a trainer to kick my ass all these years later because I can totally, 100% sit, get into my writing, and find all sorts of excuses to not want to go work out. Would be hard for me to sit up, stand up, and go and work out rather than continue to write. But that's the brain development. That's literally my perception of what's hard. And so if we lean into that, we develop our brain in a different way. That's. By the way, that's a scientific fact. I should have brought that stat with me.
[29:42]
Stephanie Hanlon
You should have. And there's also one of my favorite lines, and I don't know who it is. If it's Naomi Wolf, Or Naomi Klein or whatever. There's the. Choose your heart. You know, working out is hard, Being overweight is hard. Choose your hard. You know, being married is hard. Being single is hard. Choose your hard. When you realize that we get to choose our hard, that also is part of the paradox, is that we always think outside of ourselves or we think the grass is greener on the other side. And I remember this one time, I think it was my dad that said, you know, if you think the grass is greener on the other side, fertilize your own grass.
[30:19]
Patrick
That's right. Or if you think it's greener on the other side, there's probably a bunch of crap underneath it.
[30:24]
Stephanie Hanlon
Exactly right.
[30:27]
Patrick
So, you know, we. The point of it is, is that as we go through this, you know, if we're. If we're forced into an uncomfortable situation, we rally, we step up, we do things. It's uncomfortable, it pisses us off, but ultimately, we come out the other side of it. And often in reflection, we go, that's the best thing that ever happened, you know, at the time, you know, back in 1983, when the Alberta economy's melting down, politics is shutting me down. I've got no control over anything. I get laid off. You know, I'm angry, I'm stuck. I'm going, holy cow, how do I get through this? And I got through it. But the point is, is that it was now in. In, you know, a long time ago, I had the realization that it was actually the best thing that ever happened. But I'll tell you what, for the probably several months, you know, maybe even a year, it was not the best thing that ever happened. And so it was going through that eye of the needle and having to survive and to recreate and to take all of the years that I had that training, corporate training, and I realized that that whole corporate training that I had over those seven or eight years that I had a job, seven years that I had a job in my life was it really was. It was. It was kind of, you know, like going to school at that time. I got tons of corporate education, lots of things into technology. I mean, it was. Given what technology was, back in 1984, we got a fax machine. But the point is, is that you realize in hindsight is that that set me up to deal with what I got forced into dealing with. So it's always in hindsight, when we see these things, we don't want to go through it. So I look at some of the challenges that you and I are facing right now, and just life and business and all the things. I mean, we got lots going on. But I always hang on to one fundamental thing, which is I believe that things are happening for us, not to us. And although in moments in time, I can get shut down and pissed off about it and kind of moan about it, at the end of the day, I also believe that. And so we realize that we get bigger problems, and it demands more of us than it stretches us. It expands on who we are as people. It. And it really forces us to become more than we even know that we can be. So that's kind of how I look at that. And we coach people around that. We have a different kind of angle around it, and we use all the, you know, what's your why and what's behind it and what's driving you and what are your core values. But as soon as we had this region beta paradox, I went, okay, you know, that explains it all.
[33:10]
Stephanie Hanlon
Yeah. It's funny, you know, when I think about it, water flows downhill, right? You know, there's just this whole. Water will find the easiest path. And I don't, you know, people say, be like water, and I'm like, yeah, you know, I appreciate the fact that, you know, you went through your entrepreneurial accident. I actually, I. I had mine. Mine was more of about an injury that took my. My knee out of my work life out almost for 18 months. And I realized that I never. And then I went and, you know, became a salesperson for a company, and I realized I never wanted to be in a corporate world. And I think that's where you and I align. And. But we both had the experience. I would never want to say to somebody, you know, don't try to be an entrepreneur if. If that's not your, you know, your. Your natural way of being. But I also want to say don't think the corporate world or working for the government is the answer, because that's a constraint, and that is something that will trap you. And beyond the paradox, I think there's ways of having conversations with people in our lives that are saying, you know what? We can't tell you what to do. We will never tell you what to do. But also take a look at the expectation or what you think is going to be better and what's going to be taken away from you if you're an entrepreneur, and what's going to be taken away from you if you're going into the world of bureaucracy. Ultimately, it's your mindset, and it's Your way of being in the world that matters. And I think that's what I love about our work right now. And I love the fact that you created this mind shape, mind shui way is that I see how clear you're getting and you get pissed off and I see your frustration, you know, when, when things aren't going well. And I feel the same. But at least we're in control and we're, we actually have the power to direct our lives. And I really think going into this next eye of the needle, whether in society or in, you know, whether the politics or the economics are going to be at the effect we really have a foundation. And sometimes I get scared, you know, I get scared that we don't have the skills, but I really trust that we do. And I think that the people that are believing in themselves and believing in, in us and that we believe in them is that whether it's, you know, Alfonso's, the, the wealth genius group or if it's our, it's our everyday millionaire people, that there is a swim lane that allows the people that really believe that they can have the balance and they can take responsibility and build their lives, you know, and, and, and drive the car, you know, go, go the two miles in the car. You don't have to struggle, you don't have to. And you can be there twice as fast. So, you know, let's look at things differently.
[35:52]
Patrick
There's a, you know, there's a fundamental that, you know, for me, what was kind of insightful about this is giving it a handle. You know, because about the thousands of real estate investors I've worked with, you know, one on one, one on many, you know, the stages I've been on, the, the challenges I've faced trying to support people in achieving their goals. And it just gave it a, you know, we do all the stuff we talk about all the things we do the work ourselves. We're always trying to crack the code of how do we get people, you know, moving. And you know, it, it, all this just gave it a whole new context. And I don't know why, but it was fun to talk about anyways. You know, at the end of the day, this is all part of the mind shui way. Clear the clutter, clarity equals velocity. And you know, our goal is always to, on this podcast to support people and give you food for thought in terms of how can you in fact clear the clutter and you know, go on that journey of self discovery to be the best version of yourself and achieve the goals that you set out to achieve. I think we did a pretty good job unpacking this one. It was an interesting topic.
[36:59]
Stephanie Hanlon
Yeah, it kind of threw me a curveball. I never, like. We talked about it a bit last night when you came home, but I was really, really fascinated by the way that you discovered it today. So thanks for that.
[37:09]
Patrick
Yeah, good job. And I always like throwing your curve ball. It's the best part of the show.
[37:13]
Stephanie Hanlon
I know. Well, one thing before we need to give a shout out to our grandbaby, Alyssa. She's going to be nine soon, so happy birthday, sweet girl. I love you. That was fun.
[37:27]
Patrick
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening. If you found value in the podcast, please take the time to rate and review and share with others. Share with your friends as it is my goal to always improve and to provide the highest value for you, the listener. If you have any comments, suggestions or questions you'd like answers answered, please email me@ceoaincanada.com that's CEORA. I look forward to hearing from you. And until next time. Patrick. Go.
[38:06]
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Summary5 min read

Podcast Summary: The Everyday Millionaire Episode: Mindset Matters - Episode #187 - Trapped by Comfort: The Region Beta Paradox Explained
Release Date: May 29, 2025
Hosts: Patrick Francey & Stephanie Hanlon

Introduction

In Episode #187 of The Everyday Millionaire, host Patrick Francey engages in a profound discussion with his wife, Stephanie Hanlon, an Olympic mental performance coach. Titled "Trapped by Comfort: The Region Beta Paradox Explained," the episode delves into the psychological phenomenon known as the Region Beta Paradox and its impact on personal growth and wealth creation.

Understanding the Region Beta Paradox

Patrick introduces the concept of the Region Beta Paradox, a term that encapsulates the idea that sometimes, encountering worse situations can propel individuals to take action more effectively than being in moderately comfortable circumstances.

Key Explanation:

Patrick [05:56]: "Region beta paradox. Imagine that you were to walk a mile or less because it's less than a mile, you'd just walk it. But if you were to go more than a mile, you'd drive it. Paradoxically, you'd go two miles much faster than one mile."

This analogy illustrates that when faced with a more challenging scenario (driving two miles vs. walking one), individuals may act more decisively, thereby overcoming inertia that keeps them in a state of comfortable complacency.

Personal Narratives and Real-Life Examples

Patrick shares a personal story from 1983-1984 when the oil and gas industry in Alberta was shut down due to political decisions, resulting in his layoff. This forced him out of his comfort zone, compelling him to adapt and ultimately leading to his entrepreneurial journey.

Notable Quote:

Patrick [12:42]: "Imagine if that wouldn't have happened. By being thrown into the fire, I had to react and get some stuff done."

Stephanie echoes this sentiment by recounting her own experiences with injuries and shifting careers, emphasizing how unexpected challenges can catalyze personal and professional growth.

Additional Examples:

Employment: Staying in a job that's merely acceptable but unfulfilling.
Relationships: Remaining in a non-toxic but unloving relationship.
Living Situations: Continuing to live in an imperfect apartment rather than seeking better conditions.

The Comfort Zone and Its Implications

The discussion highlights how comfortable complacency traps individuals in a middle ground where their situations aren't bad enough to provoke change but aren't fulfilling either. This state prevents them from striving for betterment or taking necessary risks to achieve their true potential.

Key Insight:

Patrick [04:35]: "Ambition is when you expect yourself to close the gap between what you have and what you want. Entitlement is when you expect others to do so."

Stephanie adds depth to this by questioning the validity of stepping out of comfort zones without tangible proof that doing so yields better results, emphasizing the psychological barriers to embracing discomfort.

Strategies to Overcome Comfortable Complacency

The hosts discuss practical approaches to breaking free from the Region Beta Paradox:

Find a Bigger 'Why': Understanding deeper motivations can provide the necessary push to leave comfort zones.
Embrace Discomfort: Recognizing that growth inherently involves discomfort and uncertainty.
Choose Your Hard: Adopting the philosophy that all paths have challenges, but choosing the path aligned with one's goals ensures meaningful effort.

Stephanie [29:41]: "Choose your hard. Being overweight is hard. Being married is hard. Choose your hard."
Delayed Gratification: Drawing parallels to the marshmallow test, the ability to delay immediate rewards for greater long-term benefits is crucial.

Patrick [21:53]: "The marshmallow test is about whether you can delay gratification to see and do the hard part first."

The Marshmallow Test Analogy

Stephanie explains the marshmallow test—a psychological experiment that measures a child's ability to delay gratification. Children are given the choice to eat one marshmallow immediately or wait for a period to receive two marshmallows. This test serves as a metaphor for the importance of delayed gratification in achieving greater rewards.

Stephanie [23:08]: "The marshmallow test measures whether you can delay gratification to see and do the hard part first."

Patrick humorously admits his weakness for immediate gratification with food but acknowledges the principle's validity in other areas of life.

Mind Shui: Decluttering the Mind

Patrick introduces the concept of Mind Shui—a metaphorical extension of feng shui applied to mental spaces. By decluttering the mind and creating flow, individuals can enhance their clarity and velocity towards achieving goals.

Notable Quote:

Patrick [36:58]: "Clear the clutter, clarity equals velocity."

Overcoming Fear of Failure

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the fear of failure and judgment. The hosts argue that embracing discomfort and accepting the possibility of failure are essential for growth and success.

Patrick [19:40]: "You cannot grow and get stronger by constantly being comfortable. If we don't challenge ourselves, we don't get stronger."

Concluding Insights

Patrick and Stephanie conclude by reinforcing that growth requires stepping out of comfort zones and embracing discomfort. They emphasize that valid challenges push individuals to develop resilience, discover their potential, and ultimately achieve extraordinary success.

Final Thoughts:

Stephanie [35:52]: "When you realize that we get to choose our hard, that also is part of the paradox. We always think outside of ourselves or think the grass is greener on the other side."

Patrick ties the episode back to the overarching theme of Mind Shui and the importance of mindset in clearing mental clutter to achieve one's best self and financial aspirations.

Takeaways

Region Beta Paradox: Understand that moderate comfort can be a trap preventing decisive action.
Embrace Discomfort: Recognize that stepping out of comfort zones is essential for growth.
Delayed Gratification: Cultivate the ability to delay immediate rewards for long-term benefits.
Mind Shui: Apply principles of mental decluttering to enhance focus and productivity.
Choose Your Hard: Accept that all paths have challenges, and proactively choose those aligned with your goals.

Quotes to Remember

Patrick [04:35]: "Ambition is when you expect yourself to close the gap between what you have and what you want. Entitlement is when you expect others to do so."
Stephanie [29:41]: "Choose your hard. Being overweight is hard. Being married is hard. Choose your hard."
Patrick [21:53]: "The marshmallow test is about whether you can delay gratification to see and do the hard part first."
Patrick [36:58]: "Clear the clutter, clarity equals velocity."

For Further Reflection: Listeners are encouraged to introspect on their comfort zones and identify areas where complacency might be hindering their path to becoming an Everyday Millionaire. By understanding and applying the principles discussed in this episode, individuals can strategically navigate their personal and financial growth journeys.

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Transcript76 lines

[00:00]
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[00:30]
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[01:34]
Patrick
Hi there and welcome to this episode of the Everyday Millionaire Mindset Matters podcast where I'm joined by my wife, Olympic mental performance coach Stephanie Hanlon. Francie in these episodes, Stephanie and I have a conversation about the different aspects of what we refer to as Mindset Matters. Because we believe that for those who are awake, we are living in and through the most impactful time in history. Your view of the world is the filter for how you will experience the evolution and changing dynamics of it. Our intention is to provide you with ideas, nutritious food for thought, and some tools that you can use to help you in being your greatest self and living your best life. Listen in, Enjoy. Hey there and welcome to Mindset Matters, where we challenge old thinking, explore new perspectives, and help you design a life that aligns with who you are truly meant to be. Stephanie, welcome.
[02:33]
Stephanie Hanlon
Hey hon.
[02:34]
Patrick
So lots of ground to cover and we just came off I just came off a Great weekend. Expand weekend. Got to hang out with some old friends, hang out with JG Francour, you know, who, of course, I've been on stage with hundreds of times. We were at an event, the Expand event with Alfonso Cuatra and Wealth Genius team and Helene Cuatra, and we had so much fun. I think there's probably 400 people at the event, and it was just a blast. But it leads me to what I want to talk about today. And that was awesome. But I want to ask you something. You are, you know, a best in the world at what you do. You won. You were given an award. Now you've had it for a while. You are literally the US Olympic Paralympic Committee Coach of the Year in all sports, which we've talked about before, but now you've kind of worn that hat for a little while. What are you thinking about it? Do you kind of finally own it?
[03:37]
Stephanie Hanlon
Yeah, it was quite the experience. And when going through that, and then post, coming home from Colorado and then stepping into the Brian and Nellie Kyle and Brittany Pullis event was quite the, I guess, the mirror, you know, as to. I mean, we've been talking about the limiting beliefs, et cetera, and I was really able to bump into a lot of mine. But over the last little while, I realized that when I settle into it and really get that, it. It's just an award. It's. It's outside of me. It's acknowledgement and meant a lot. But then I still had to come home and wash the floor and feed the dogs and, you know, put. Put gas in the car, and it's like no one really gave a shit, you know, it was really awesome. So the perspective was there, and it was. It was pretty special these last couple of weeks.
[04:26]
Patrick
So hence the quote, before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After Enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.
[04:35]
Stephanie Hanlon
Same thing. You know, after the award, chop wood, carry water. No, nothing really changes.
[04:42]
Patrick
Okay, so I got a couple of quotes I want to lead off with, so how about this one? Ambition is when you expect yourself to close the gap between what you have and what you want. Entitlement is when you expect others to close the gap between what you have and what you want.
[05:00]
Stephanie Hanlon
Oh, wow. Okay, read that again. Don't step over that. Read it again.
[05:03]
Patrick
Okay, so ambition is when you expect yourself to close the gap between what you have and what you want. Entitlement is when you expect others to do. So.
[05:13]
Stephanie Hanlon
I don't think there's going to be a lot of people that like that quote.
[05:15]
Patrick
No, but. No, because, well, There's. I don't know, I don't think we have a lot of people that are thinking they're entitled listening to the podcast. So I think it's just an interesting. I thought it was a cool kind of quote.
[05:25]
Stephanie Hanlon
I realize that there's times where, you know, I really want you to be the reason that I'm successful or that I suck. And you never are.
[05:34]
Patrick
There you go. So nobody's going to show up and rescue you. That's the bottom line. Okay, so I'm going to. I was going to kind of see if I could fool you, but I know I could on this one. So there's an interesting term, and it's called region beta paradox. Region beta paradox. You know what that is?
[05:56]
Stephanie Hanlon
Nope.
[05:57]
Patrick
Okay, so here's the fundamental. So the region beta paradox. So imagine that you were to walk a mile or less. And so you would just walk it because it's less than a mile. And if you were to go to more than a mile, however, you would drive it. So paradoxically, you would go two miles much faster than you would go one mile.
[06:22]
Stephanie Hanlon
True.
[06:23]
Patrick
Which is to say that what it really means is that sometimes worse situations can be better than better situations. So in other words, sometimes worse situations can be better than better situations. So driving the two miles is considered, you know, consider you're having to go two miles. So it's a worse situation having to travel two miles, but it's actually better because you're driving it. You follow that thought process.
[06:53]
Stephanie Hanlon
Okay, got it. Yep.
[06:55]
Patrick
So it's also an issue if we apply that into our normal life. So when. If you decide to act after you cross a certain threshold of badness or whatever that might be, you can end up being stuck in what's called region beta. So let's keep unpacking this. I'll give you more examples. So, for instance, we've all met that friend, and maybe we're that person that should actually leave their job. And in fact, they really, really need to leave the job. They're miserable. But the problem is it's pretty passable. You know, the boss isn't that big an asshole. Benefits are okay. It doesn't really light you up, but it's not that bad. That would be a cool. That's one example. Okay. A person that's in a relationship with someone that they don't really want to stay with, and it's not brilliant, but it's not bad. So, you know, it's not like they're being abused or something like that. Everything's all right, so the person stays, for example, in an apartment. It's got peeling wallpaper, but it's not that bad. Maybe a little mold on the ceiling and the landlord doesn't look after it, but it's not that bad. So people stay in those circumstances. The reality of it is, all those examples that I gave. The reality of it is that if those individuals were giving more difficult situations, it would actually get them off their ass and they'd actually do something about it. But they're in this what we'll call comfortable world of complacency. And so they're in the middle, and we can all find ourselves there, by the way. And they. The point is, is that comfortable complacency is that space where it's not that bad, it's not great, so you don't do anything. There's no real problem to solve. It's not that bad, so there's not a lot of energy to want to change it so it's passable, so you end up being comfortably numb. That is called the region beta paradox, and it's a counterintuitive psychological phenomena, if you were. And where worse situations can lead to an actual faster, better recovery of what you got going on than sitting in the middle. You follow?
[09:25]
Stephanie Hanlon
Holy cow. That's like, mind blown. Like, it's so true. I mean, we talk about it on the surface. It's like, you know, committing to mediocrity or, you know, being comfortable and, and. And living in your comfort zone. And we talk about that on a surface level. But I think, you know, as you and I have been digging in deeper into some of the work that we're doing is that this is something that I think we can really dig into and, and talk about, because this is beyond, you know, striving to be mediocre. This is actually choosing a less fulfilling life on purpose. But, but do we know that driving that extra mile would be better than walking that one mile? Like, until we maybe have social proof or we have some kind of data. How do we know that? Like, how do we know that this just isn't good enough?
[10:18]
Patrick
Okay, but let's. Well, that. But that's sometimes the issue. And that's where, you know, the universe steps up and says, okay, well, I've whispered and I'm going to turn up the volume. So here, let me keep going through this a little bit and give you some.
[10:30]
Talkspace Sponsor
And.
[10:31]
Patrick
Because it really applies. And the reason I'm bringing it up is because I witnessed it this weekend and I realized that we've never given it that title. You know, region beta paradox. But we deal with it as coaches all the time. Let me give you another example. And I've had this experience, like we've all experienced this. So comfortable complacency, right? So we're. We're sitting there, it's not that bad. We'd like to do more, but it's okay. We get into that world how. Now let me give you an example of this. I've had my, what I refer to my entrepreneurial accident. So we go back accidents. But let's just talk to my big one that really set it off was in. Back in 1983, 1984. So I'm in this scenario. I'm in the oil and gas industry. Politics come in, shut down the oil and gas industry in Alberta and a job that I'd had, a corporate job that I'd had, which I'd learned a ton of, but I was really kind of bored with it. It wasn't like it was good but not great, but it wasn't so bad. And the money was pretty good and, you know, I had a pretty good lifestyle with it, so it was okay. But here's the thing, what happened? Oil and gas industry gets shut down, leads to a huge downturn in the province, which leads to me getting laid off. All of a sudden I go from comfortable complacency to thrown out into this world of holy crap. I got to make a living. I've got to earn an income. Alberta economy is shut down, unemployment rates 14%. And now I got to get off my ass and figure some out. It put me into a situation where I had to recover, I had to step up, I had to do something. So I get out of comfortable complacency to real huge discomfort and holy cow, I got a fire to put out. And then out of that, it was. I really unfolded for me was the entrepreneurial accident. And then on the journey I go. But the point is, is that imagine if that wouldn't have happened. So by being thrown into the fire, I had to react and get some stuff done. Right. You follow?
[12:43]
Stephanie Hanlon
Yeah, I'm totally following.
[12:44]
Patrick
So when you think about, you know, when we're working with clients and or were in. I'll use this weekend as an example. There was a lot of really fired up individuals wanting to learn how to invest in real estate. And there are many of them that are taking huge action. Like, it's awesome. But there's those individuals that I think I realize now because we talk about it all the time. What's your why? What's your why? What's your why? What you're really trying to do is get people out of comfortable complacency.
[13:16]
Stephanie Hanlon
Ever look at your bank account and just go, why? You're smart, you work hard, but when it comes to money, you avoid it like an exit Whole Foods and can't seem to get ahead. Maybe you think building wealth is only for the rich or people with six figure inheritances. That's not true. You don't need a finance degree to get good with money. You just need a plan and someone to break it down like a friend and not a spreadsheet. That's what Million L is all about. Real talk, real steps and no shame. That's million plus E L L E. Region beta paradox. Okay, this is coming together.
[13:50]
Patrick
You follow what I'm saying? Yeah, we just have a title for it. We've, we've witnessed it for years. We just didn't have a kind of a box for it, you know? So the reality of it is, is that now that I have a. It was a kind of an epiphany like, oh, this is what we're dealing with. It. We're dealing with. So we call it comfortable. We don't realize that it's comfortable complacency, although we know we don't have a name for it. And we certainly don't know what, you know, region beta. I've lost the term paradox. Region beta paradoxes. So we have never had a kind of a psychological name for it or whatever that might be. But the point of it is that if, if we get thrown into the fire, we will actually get through it, come out the other side of it and quite likely be better for it. If we don't, we stay stuck. So then we put all these things in place. We need inspiration, we need motivation, we need a bigger why we have all these things, but the ultimate kind of light that we shine on things in terms of mindset and in terms of understanding ourselves and what's in our way. We have to ask ourselves a question. We seek comfort as human beings. We want to be comfortable. Not everybody's David Goggin, who's kind of the extreme, off the charts guy, but you know what I'm saying? So think about that. So comfortable complacency. And I realize that that's a point of entry for anybody looking at what they've got going on right now. If you're listening to this, you ask yourself, we seek comfort. We don't by nature. We don't Want to be uncomfortable. You know, I use the, you know, my own awareness of being in the shower and going, oh, I don't want to get out of the shower. And I mean, why don't I want to get out of the shower? Well, because I'm going to get out of the shower and it's going to be chilly. It's going to be cold, it's going to be uncomfortable. You know, I'm going from 104 degrees to, you know, whatever, 72 degrees. And so in the moment it feels really, really chilly. It's uncomfortable. So we constantly seek comfort. We stay in that comfort. And unless we're really inspired in some way, unless we've got something really kind of that is going to drive us to take action, which could be, you know, shit hitting the fan somewhere in our life, we are going to. Or we're at risk of being in the region beta paradox. Okay, so I've said a lot. What's your thoughts on this?
[16:24]
Stephanie Hanlon
Okay, totally mind blown. Because it's so true. Um, I just had this, a call with a client last week, an ice dance client. And one of the things and one of the words that they use all the time is, you know, it just wasn't comfortable. And I need him to do this or I need her to do this because I need to be more comfortable in this hold or this move or this lift. I'm like, well, what if you didn't need to be comfortable? Like, seeking comfort seems to me like almost like a downhill plan. Like discomfort and uncertainty for me seems to be the champions way or the mind shui way. Like when you think about moving forward, there is a bit of a discomfort in that. But the awareness of helping people see where they're demanding and seeking and really trying to stay comfortable is a real challenge and I think people feel it innately. Human beings were not designed to be comfortable. We're not designed to stay static. I mean, think about it. We wouldn't have evolved the way that we've evolved. If you believe in evolution. I don't know, but we wouldn't have evolved to the place where we can now, you know, be using AI to make us more comfortable or to make us more, you know, satiate.
[17:36]
Patrick
I. Well, yeah, but AI makes us more efficient. I don't know that AI is about seeking comfort. It's.
[17:41]
Stephanie Hanlon
I think it's going to be. I think eventually there's going to be kids sitting on their couch with their big little, you know, big meta goggles.
[17:47]
Patrick
On and no, with your robots serving You.
[17:50]
Stephanie Hanlon
Right. You know, so that to me is. Is. Yes, but I mean, we still have, I think now, enough of the human spirit that if we can actually shine a light on something like this and for people to go, oh, my God, you're right. I just keep circling back to wanting to be comfortable, wanting to be comfortable, wanting to be comfortable. And if I'm not comfortable, then something must be wrong. And that's what I think is so interesting about what you just said.
[18:14]
Patrick
There's a. I had made a note that comfort is where dreams go to stall.
[18:22]
Stephanie Hanlon
Or go to die.
[18:24]
Patrick
Well, they may go to die. Yeah, they could die there. But so there's a couple things around all this, and I've used this analogy a hundred times, but. And I keep going back to it in conversations with people that approach me at the events, and we have conversations about maybe where they're feeling stuck or, you know, it's harder than they thought it was, and all the rest of it, and we still come back to a fundamental about life and about business and about achieving goals, is that you cannot grow and get stronger by constantly being comfortable. And if we don't challenge ourselves, we don't get stronger. As a matter of fact, if we don't have what we'll call failures, if we don't have setbacks, if we don't have challenges to overcome, we don't get stronger. Everybody is afraid and says they're afraid of failure. And we, you know, we often get into the psychology of that and saying, well, no, you're not really afraid of failure. You're afraid of what the judgment is, of what you think people will think of you, your peers, your friends, your family, etc. That's one aspect of it. But there's also another aspect of it, is I use the analogy about going to the gym. You want to go to the gym, you want to get stronger, you want to get fitter, you know, which means you have to lift more weight. And lifting more weight can be uncomfortable. As a matter of fact, you can try and lift more weight and actually fail at it. And so although the consequences of it are dropped weight, the point of it is. So it doesn't seem so bad. The reality of it is, is in. In real life, in business, in trying to achieve a goal, you are in fact going to have to stress yourself. You're going to have to push your limits, and you're going to have to lift more weight than you're comfortable lifting. And that's the only way you get stronger. Leaning into projects that Maybe your competency level or your skill level where you have to develop the competency or you have to develop the skill. And part of developing the competency and the skill is falling down, failing, having to start again, you know, you follow what I'm saying? So I do. Yeah.
[20:23]
Stephanie Hanlon
I think there's also. Oh, sorry, go ahead.
[20:25]
Patrick
No, you go ahead.
[20:26]
Stephanie Hanlon
There's also something that I've been really focusing on recently and, you know, and I think about my hockey development program is, you know, quantum speed. Quantum means the smallest possible change to get the biggest result. And the smallest possible change can be the most difficult and can be the most uncomfortable because it's not how I do it. It's not how I've learned it. And when you break things down into its component parts, it can be difficult. And I was thinking, I was watching something the other day, and it's like, well, what if we just do the hard part first? Because I think what happens is most people are seeking the easy way, or, you know, we had a conversation, you know, in the last little while with some staff is they just want it to be easy or comfortable or more organized, and they want it to be more corporate, like in the, you know, in the world of small business. And so where they're at is wrong. And so what I would like to really dig into is to how do we make the hard part, the. The two kilometer, you know, ride and, and. And be okay with driving it and being good at it and do the hard part first. Because in my world, when I did the hard part first or, you know, do you remember the. The marshmallow test where the kids were saying if they can not eat the marshmallow.
[21:41]
Patrick
So describe the marshmallow test so that people listening can understand. Not everybody knows the marshmallow test. So describe it. And just. I'll say up front that I would always fail the marshmallow test, guaranteed. But go ahead.
[21:54]
Stephanie Hanlon
And I would always pass it, and I'd have like 16 marshmallows and I would just sit there and stare at them.
[21:58]
Patrick
Okay, so describe the marshmallow test.
[22:01]
Stephanie Hanlon
Okay. From what I understand is that a group of researchers took some three and four year olds, who of course are the most.
[22:08]
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[23:08]
Stephanie Hanlon
Beautiful and. And. And truthful animals on the beam, Right? So they said, okay. They, they laid them out and they said, okay, here you go. You can eat this marshmallow.
[23:19]
Patrick
They put two marshmallows in front of them or one marshmallow.
[23:22]
Stephanie Hanlon
No, they put, they put. They put one marshmallow.
[23:24]
Patrick
Yeah.
[23:25]
Stephanie Hanlon
So you can eat this marshmallow now and we're good to go. Or you can wait and I'm going to leave the room for, you know, 30 seconds or a minute, and I'm going to come back and if you haven't eaten that marshmallow, I'm going to give you a second marshmallow and you're going to have two.
[23:42]
Patrick
Yes.
[23:43]
Stephanie Hanlon
Right. So the marshmallow test. So what they were saying in theory, and this is kind of the anecdotal data, is that the, the kids that ate the marshmallow, that they were not able to manage their instant gratification, and the kids that were able to look at marshmallow feel the discomfort, feel that uncertainty. I don't know if there's going to be a second marshmallow. Oh, my gosh. But what if there is? So that, to me, is the delayed gratification piece when it comes to this. So when I think about the marshmallow test is, can you delay gratification to see and do the hard part first? Does that make sense?
[24:17]
Patrick
Yeah. See, I would fail the marshmallow test not because I seek gratification first, but because it's food. Now, if that was. If you would.
[24:25]
Stephanie Hanlon
Popcorn maybe too. Same thing.
[24:28]
Patrick
No, but if it wasn't food, like if you put money in front of me or you put something like that in front of me and said, okay, you know, here's 10 bucks. Don't touch it and, you know, I'll come back in a few minutes later and if there's still 10 bucks there, I might add. I might add to the pot.
[24:45]
Stephanie Hanlon
Right. But think about it. How we do one thing is how we do all things.
[24:49]
Patrick
I don't agree with that.
[24:51]
Stephanie Hanlon
I do. I do. And honestly. Honestly, you don't be telling me that if 10 bucks is sitting there and then the guy comes back and gives you another 10 bucks, I think you'd go and spend that 10 bucks. I really do, because it's a quality and I love that about you. But don't get me wrong, we're different in that. Like, I honestly, when I look around, I think that's partly why I'm a bit of a hoarder and is that I just don't feel like I need to eat things or say, like, I can save, I can invest, I can do all those things. Because I'm looking at the longer picture and I'm not about instant gratification. I wish I was. On some levels, I wish I was more like you that way.
[25:27]
Patrick
So where were we going with the marshmallow test? So the instant gratification beta region, beta par paradox. Paradox, how does that fit into the region beta paradox? Comfort.
[25:38]
Stephanie Hanlon
Yep.
[25:39]
Patrick
We seek comfort.
[25:40]
Stephanie Hanlon
Delayed gratification.
[25:42]
Patrick
Delayed gratification.
[25:43]
Stephanie Hanlon
Because even when you think about it, it would take longer to walk the mile than it does to drive two miles. Yes, but you have to then be willing to give up the walk and give up a bit of the struggle or a bit or the experience of the walk. Right. If you're wanting to get there faster and have a different result, then you would drive. So the paradox in that, I think, goes a lot. Well, not a lot, but maybe a little deeper than I think we even have scratched the surf on surface on right now. Because how many times have we looked at what it would take to do something faster? That's the paradox. Do something faster, get a different result. But what you are giving up on some level is maybe a bit of the journey or something that it is that you want. So there's a. There's a paradox in that as well.
[26:33]
Patrick
All I know is that when I think about that whole concept is you start to realize just what keeps us stuck. So this goes back to, you know, how do we bust through that and realize that we have to be in this place of discomfort? We have to go through the discomfort. We have to lean into it. We have to solve bigger problems if we want to have bigger results. And it is a bit of a mind screw, let's face it. And so, you know, as I lean into and we take the everyday millionaire, this podcast mindset matters. And kind of, for me, leaning into writing the book and to developing the program, the everyday success, and, you know, understanding that I want really to kind of develop the whole concept about mind shui, you know, feng shui for the mind, which is about decluttering, creating flow, creating energy. That's what feng shui is all about. So feng shui for the mind, hence mind shui and the mind shui, wei is a way of thinking, it's a way of being. That entails and includes understanding that being uncomfortable is part of growth. And we fight for comfort, which is just totally so bizarre. And I'm not suggesting that we all want a comfortable bed, we all want to stay warm, we want to do all those things. But. But data absolutely supports the reality that people who are doing things that, by the way, they perceive as hard. So, in other words, you know, you may do something that you find easy, and I find hard, and vice versa. But if we perceive something as hard but we do it anyways, that's where our brain fires differently, and we actually can. That is getting uncomfortable for whatever it is for what I do some things that I find very simple, very easy for me, which you would go, no, that will take me all day to do, so it'd be really uncomfortable for you. So we see those scenarios. The point of it is that in developing the mindset, in developing our brain, in clearing the clutter, if you will, it means that we actually have to accept the fact that. That doing hard things is good for us and even things that we perceive as hard. So we'll use the example, is that people cannot get into a routine of working out. And I mean, I work out, and then I don't work out. I still need a trainer to kick my ass all these years later because I can totally, 100% sit, get into my writing, and find all sorts of excuses to not want to go work out. Would be hard for me to sit up, stand up, and go and work out rather than continue to write. But that's the brain development. That's literally my perception of what's hard. And so if we lean into that, we develop our brain in a different way. That's. By the way, that's a scientific fact. I should have brought that stat with me.
[29:42]
Stephanie Hanlon
You should have. And there's also one of my favorite lines, and I don't know who it is. If it's Naomi Wolf, Or Naomi Klein or whatever. There's the. Choose your heart. You know, working out is hard, Being overweight is hard. Choose your hard. You know, being married is hard. Being single is hard. Choose your hard. When you realize that we get to choose our hard, that also is part of the paradox, is that we always think outside of ourselves or we think the grass is greener on the other side. And I remember this one time, I think it was my dad that said, you know, if you think the grass is greener on the other side, fertilize your own grass.
[30:19]
Patrick
That's right. Or if you think it's greener on the other side, there's probably a bunch of crap underneath it.
[30:24]
Stephanie Hanlon
Exactly right.
[30:27]
Patrick
So, you know, we. The point of it is, is that as we go through this, you know, if we're. If we're forced into an uncomfortable situation, we rally, we step up, we do things. It's uncomfortable, it pisses us off, but ultimately, we come out the other side of it. And often in reflection, we go, that's the best thing that ever happened, you know, at the time, you know, back in 1983, when the Alberta economy's melting down, politics is shutting me down. I've got no control over anything. I get laid off. You know, I'm angry, I'm stuck. I'm going, holy cow, how do I get through this? And I got through it. But the point is, is that it was now in. In, you know, a long time ago, I had the realization that it was actually the best thing that ever happened. But I'll tell you what, for the probably several months, you know, maybe even a year, it was not the best thing that ever happened. And so it was going through that eye of the needle and having to survive and to recreate and to take all of the years that I had that training, corporate training, and I realized that that whole corporate training that I had over those seven or eight years that I had a job, seven years that I had a job in my life was it really was. It was. It was kind of, you know, like going to school at that time. I got tons of corporate education, lots of things into technology. I mean, it was. Given what technology was, back in 1984, we got a fax machine. But the point is, is that you realize in hindsight is that that set me up to deal with what I got forced into dealing with. So it's always in hindsight, when we see these things, we don't want to go through it. So I look at some of the challenges that you and I are facing right now, and just life and business and all the things. I mean, we got lots going on. But I always hang on to one fundamental thing, which is I believe that things are happening for us, not to us. And although in moments in time, I can get shut down and pissed off about it and kind of moan about it, at the end of the day, I also believe that. And so we realize that we get bigger problems, and it demands more of us than it stretches us. It expands on who we are as people. It. And it really forces us to become more than we even know that we can be. So that's kind of how I look at that. And we coach people around that. We have a different kind of angle around it, and we use all the, you know, what's your why and what's behind it and what's driving you and what are your core values. But as soon as we had this region beta paradox, I went, okay, you know, that explains it all.
[33:10]
Stephanie Hanlon
Yeah. It's funny, you know, when I think about it, water flows downhill, right? You know, there's just this whole. Water will find the easiest path. And I don't, you know, people say, be like water, and I'm like, yeah, you know, I appreciate the fact that, you know, you went through your entrepreneurial accident. I actually, I. I had mine. Mine was more of about an injury that took my. My knee out of my work life out almost for 18 months. And I realized that I never. And then I went and, you know, became a salesperson for a company, and I realized I never wanted to be in a corporate world. And I think that's where you and I align. And. But we both had the experience. I would never want to say to somebody, you know, don't try to be an entrepreneur if. If that's not your, you know, your. Your natural way of being. But I also want to say don't think the corporate world or working for the government is the answer, because that's a constraint, and that is something that will trap you. And beyond the paradox, I think there's ways of having conversations with people in our lives that are saying, you know what? We can't tell you what to do. We will never tell you what to do. But also take a look at the expectation or what you think is going to be better and what's going to be taken away from you if you're an entrepreneur, and what's going to be taken away from you if you're going into the world of bureaucracy. Ultimately, it's your mindset, and it's Your way of being in the world that matters. And I think that's what I love about our work right now. And I love the fact that you created this mind shape, mind shui way is that I see how clear you're getting and you get pissed off and I see your frustration, you know, when, when things aren't going well. And I feel the same. But at least we're in control and we're, we actually have the power to direct our lives. And I really think going into this next eye of the needle, whether in society or in, you know, whether the politics or the economics are going to be at the effect we really have a foundation. And sometimes I get scared, you know, I get scared that we don't have the skills, but I really trust that we do. And I think that the people that are believing in themselves and believing in, in us and that we believe in them is that whether it's, you know, Alfonso's, the, the wealth genius group or if it's our, it's our everyday millionaire people, that there is a swim lane that allows the people that really believe that they can have the balance and they can take responsibility and build their lives, you know, and, and, and drive the car, you know, go, go the two miles in the car. You don't have to struggle, you don't have to. And you can be there twice as fast. So, you know, let's look at things differently.
[35:52]
Patrick
There's a, you know, there's a fundamental that, you know, for me, what was kind of insightful about this is giving it a handle. You know, because about the thousands of real estate investors I've worked with, you know, one on one, one on many, you know, the stages I've been on, the, the challenges I've faced trying to support people in achieving their goals. And it just gave it a, you know, we do all the stuff we talk about all the things we do the work ourselves. We're always trying to crack the code of how do we get people, you know, moving. And you know, it, it, all this just gave it a whole new context. And I don't know why, but it was fun to talk about anyways. You know, at the end of the day, this is all part of the mind shui way. Clear the clutter, clarity equals velocity. And you know, our goal is always to, on this podcast to support people and give you food for thought in terms of how can you in fact clear the clutter and you know, go on that journey of self discovery to be the best version of yourself and achieve the goals that you set out to achieve. I think we did a pretty good job unpacking this one. It was an interesting topic.
[36:59]
Stephanie Hanlon
Yeah, it kind of threw me a curveball. I never, like. We talked about it a bit last night when you came home, but I was really, really fascinated by the way that you discovered it today. So thanks for that.
[37:09]
Patrick
Yeah, good job. And I always like throwing your curve ball. It's the best part of the show.
[37:13]
Stephanie Hanlon
I know. Well, one thing before we need to give a shout out to our grandbaby, Alyssa. She's going to be nine soon, so happy birthday, sweet girl. I love you. That was fun.
[37:27]
Patrick
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening. If you found value in the podcast, please take the time to rate and review and share with others. Share with your friends as it is my goal to always improve and to provide the highest value for you, the listener. If you have any comments, suggestions or questions you'd like answers answered, please email me@ceoaincanada.com that's CEORA. I look forward to hearing from you. And until next time. Patrick. Go.
[38:06]
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