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The Everyday Millionaire and Mindset Matters Podcast
Mindset Matters - Episode #236 - From Passion to Pressure: The Psychology of Burnout Explained
00:35:46
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome to this episode of the Everyday Millionaire Mindset Matters podcast, where I'm joined by my wife, Olympic mental performance coach Stephanie Hanlon. Francie. In these episodes, Stephanie and I have a conversation about the different aspects of what we refer to as Mindset Matters because we believe that for those who are awake, we are living in and through the most impactful time in history. Your view of the world is the filter for how you will experience the evolution and changing dynamics of it. Our intention is to provide you with ideas, nutritious food for thought, and some tools that you can use to help you in being your greatest self and living your best life. Listen in. Enjoy, Stephanie. Here we are. Mindset Matters.
- [00:54]
B
Hey, hon.
- [00:55]
A
Okay, here's the question. We're going to start to unpack. So what happens when passion becomes pressure and then pressure kills the passion?
- [01:07]
B
Ooh, good one. This'll be fun.
- [01:09]
A
Okay, now, this came from a study that I read about, and so I want to read kind of the give you the framework, the context of the study and why I thought this would be kind of a cool topic. And then, of course, I'll give a parable to go down another layer. But it's a very interesting thought process. So here we go. All right. 73. 1973. Okay. That's a long time ago. Well, not that long ago, anyways. 73 psychologists studied a group of preschool children who loved to draw. Most kids love to draw at some level. And these were kids that didn't have to be convinced. These were kids that didn't have to be bribed. These were just kids who naturally chose drawing during their free time. So what researchers did was something interesting. They offered some of the children a reward for drawing, like a certificate, a gold seal, a ribbon, depending on their writing. And a couple of weeks later, when the rewards were gone, when they took them off, what they noticed was those same children spent spent less time on their own. So the activity hadn't changed. You know, the coloring books and the crayons hadn't changed. The environment hadn't changed. The children, however, had changed the relationship to the actor.
- [02:36]
B
I know where this is going.
- [02:39]
A
So that raises the question for adults, how many things did we once love that now feel heavy? Because somewhere along the line, the reward replaced the reason. So think about that. We all say, live your passion. Live your passion. And then, of course, it becomes, are you getting paid for it? We need to do more of it. How do we scale? And the next thing you know, it's not about the passion. It's about how do we monetize it? How do we ramp it up? Now, this isn't the case for everybody, but I can certainly relate to it. And there is a part of it where soon it's not about doing what you love to do or you kind of disconnect from it because all of a sudden you got all these other responsibilities. And how do you scale? How do you monetize? How do you make it all work? How do you bring the team together? You follow what I'm saying?
- [03:33]
B
I do. And then it becomes a should. Right? Like, it used to be something I love to do, and now I done what I've said, you know, live your bliss. Turn your bliss and your passion into your purpose, and then turn your purpose into your profit. And, you know, all the gurus say it, all the coaches out there are there, you know, hyping that vibe all over the place. But the truth is, it's actually can work in reverse.
- [03:55]
A
Well, I. I can think of where, you know, our passion has always been, or my passion, and I know tears to the extent yours is, is we've always wanted to be. Our passion is about being a contribution, supporting others and being successful, taking others to the next level, being a contribution. Those are things that we're passionate about understanding, you know, kind of the helping people shift their view of the world, shift their perspective, and coaching others to support and to live into whatever they define as their success, whatever their why is, if you will, and getting out of their own way of doing that, while in the meantime, we're always working on our own. Getting out of our own way.
- [04:37]
B
Yeah, that's a big one. So there's two different ways of looking at it. When you think about passion and you think about purpose. I remember Dr. John Demartini always said, Anything with an ion on the end of it. The ion with this passion or passion or question or anything with an ion means it's constantly moving. So it's a moving target. Purpose for me is static. You know, it stays true. So it's not that I, you know, I'm not passionate about my coaching, and I'm not passionate about quantum speed. I'm not passionate about mind shui. I am. But linking it to purpose has gotten me more grounded. And unfortunately, it's a lot slower, and there's not as much of a dopamine hit when you're dealing with purpose. Passion can really elevate the. The adrenaline and the. And the dopamine and all the. The feedback that we're getting. And I think that's where sometimes it gets confused, where people are saying, I'm just going to be, you know, work my passion and make sure that I'm living my bliss. And, you know, and then next thing you know, you're dealing with what I call starving artist syndrome. And, you know, you're stuck because you're not getting the same dopamine, hit 9 to 5, or the work that you're doing to pay your bills. And you want to be doing your art or your performance or your basket weaving or whatever it is that just lights you up, but you can't make money at it. And I think that's a really interesting conversation that we could create a bridge for.
- [06:07]
A
Okay, well, actually, speaking of bridge, I'm going to give you this parable, okay? And, you know, just again, parable, slash metaphor, to kind of give it more framework and bigger context, and then we can continue to kind of work through it. So the parable is about the woodworker and the market. Now, this particular parable was about a man who loved building tables. And it's not because they sold, and it wasn't because anybody was standing behind him applauding. He loved the grain of the wood, the smell of the wood in the shop, the slow shaping of something solid from something raw. And every Saturday, he would disappear into his workshop. No clock, no pressure, just him, the wood, and the quiet satisfaction of making something real, something beautiful. And then one day, a neighbor saw one of the tables and said, hey, you can sell these things. So he did. And at first, it felt exciting. Then came the orders, then the deadlines, then the custom requests, then the reviews, then the pricing pressure and the returns and the comparison to other builders online. And before long, he was still building tables, but he no longer walked into the shop with anticipation. He walked into the shop with a knot in his stomach. Now, the work had not changed. The relationship to the work had changed. And that is where a lot of people lose themselves. It's not because they stopped loving the thing, but because the thing they loved got better. Buried under expectations, under measurements and under pressure.
- [07:47]
B
I totally get that. I remember the first time. Do you remember me talking about going to the rink and in the mornings and it's cold, and it's the smell of the carbon monoxide and the. The sweaty equipment and just going into the dressing room and loving every moment with the. With the guys in the room and, you know, just all of those kind of intangible moments that are connected to feeling. And then the feeling of skating. It was like flying around the ice. And I would just feel, you know, my hair, my big, long ponytail flowing in the wind and just feeling and connecting to that and watching clients get
- [08:26]
A
better and improve and the smile on their face and the realizations, holy cow, I am faster.
- [08:31]
B
Yeah. And then one thing led to another, and it turned into a business, which is great because we were able to scale it, and I could teach other coaches how to do this, and that became my purpose. So it went from all of those sensational or those kind of sensor, sensory. Sensory kind of experiences to, oh, my God, now I'm helping other people teach skating, and now I'm helping players get better. And, and then, then all of a sudden, I felt like I was starting to get taken advantage of and people wanted more, and I couldn't. I, I, I disconnected from my passion because it, it got into, well, how do I please these people? How do I, how do I make sure they're getting value? And then the coaches and the people were demanding more from me and becoming hugely having expectations on what that should look like. And I remember it just becoming a. I don't know.
- [09:21]
A
Well, it becomes a business. Right. But here's the critical point, I think, and that is that it's not the money is a problem. It's that what drives us changed. So you, you know, the term is, I guess, motive drift or inspiration drift. So when you start to figure out how to monetize a passion, that's not wrong. It's actually, that's actually a good thing. The problem is when your internal psychology, or the internal reason for doing it gets replaced by the external scoreboard. So, in other words, you follow. So you're not doing. Now all of a sudden, it's shifted. It isn't about your passion or your purpose. It's about, oh, how much money did we make? And so that is an internal shift that's happening. So the question is, when did you stop being something that you do from alignment and start doing something to prove or please or make more money or produce?
- [10:24]
B
Yeah. You know, it's funny, when I was thinking about that, when we're chatting about this and really sitting with myself and grieving a little bit of that. Because my passion did become my purpose. And my purpose, you know, we were able to turn it into a business model, and it was scalable, et cetera. And then the structure is where I really failed. And the structure took away in my world a lot of my creativity, a lot of my spontaneity, a lot of my intuition. The things that really made what we were doing or what I was doing, you know, back then when I was really driven by passion, the structure is what kind of. I bumped up and I wasn't good at. And I couldn't figure out how to get back to the original. The originating intent or the, the structure kind of took away that passion. And then I just started feeling, you know, and especially with, you know, the whole Covid. COVID pandemic thing, it just showed where the, the gaps were and where I wasn't as passionate anymore. Removed and disconnected a little bit from that. And I missed it. You know, I missed that passion. I missed wanting to, you know, be in the room smelling the, you know, the, the Zamboni fumes and, and. And the, and the sweat from the players and, and, and feeling the wind in my pony. It just really gave me pause when it came to losing that passion because I had turned it into. From purpose. I turned it into profit. And I think that's where I'm seeing a lot of things that are happening right now because the panic kicks in. And so we do things or take a job or take another job or a secondary job or, you know, third job to pay the bills. And I'm seeing right now with a lot of the athletes that I work for and with and the people that we're supporting is that they are panicking to pay the bills.
- [12:23]
A
So I think there's a fundamental around all of this, right, which is to really just to maybe get. For anybody listening to this to get re. Grounded in if they got a job or a business, whatever it might be, because we need metrics, we need benchmarks, but that isn't really the. It doesn't have to become your identity. So in other words, revenue or views or whatever, you're got your metrics clicks like, you know, that, that's, that's feedback, but that isn't your. That isn't your identity, you know, so the point of it is, is that, you know, so when you look at, we do these podcasts, it's not like we're getting paid to do podcasts. You know, we love doing it. We get great feedback and people, you know, seem to really enjoy some of the conversations that we have, some of the things that, you know, the food for thought that we give or the insights that we provide, but ultimately we do it from a place of purpose and passion. We have metrics saying, okay, well how many downloads did we get? Or are people engaging? Is there a viewership? Those are kind of metrics that we are always watching or being aware of. But we have said many times we do the podcast also, just because we love to do the podcast, and we think that we're being a contribution. We're told that we're being a contribution, and people enjoy some of the insights that we share along the way. Now, if we started being driven strictly in the podcast, as an example, because it's how we got paid, then we probably would lose the plot. Our focus isn't driving revenue from the podcast. Hopefully it expands our brand. Hopefully it elevates us and brings us out into a public space where then as we lean into our coaching programs and our workshops and the things that we're doing as we go forward, that would be part of what an outcome would be. But ultimately, we have been doing this now five years, and we do it because we enjoy doing it. We've got a team that supports us in doing it, and that's part of our passion and part of our purpose. But all of that still needs structure, it needs framework, it needs people to support it, or at least in our case. So we don't want to ruin our passion by getting outside of that and making it all about dollars and cents and views and clicks and metrics, I guess, is what I'm saying. So how do we. How does anybody get grounded back into. Hold it? You know, when I took this job, when I entered this career, when I went on this journey of whatever role, whatever job you have as an example, we get fired up. It's passion, it's purpose, and then all of a sudden, it's not that anymore. How many dollars did you generate? What's your top line? What's your bottom line? How efficient did you run it? And then you sort of start to lose the plot, perhaps.
- [15:21]
B
Yeah, but we can't, you know, deny the fact that metrics matter. I mean, you know, think about a, you know, a daily revenue report and profit and loss and margins and stuff. It's also very inspiring. And people like to measure themselves around certain metrics. I think what this conversation is more about is how do we. And is it possible, you know, to survive day to day? We have a 9 to 5, or we have to pay the bills, et cetera. But what do we do with that passion? What do we do with something that's maybe outside the box? I have a really good friend who is an amazing coach, but she's also a brilliant artist, and somehow she's found a way to merge those two things where she's getting satisfaction and finding a way to link those two things, even though completely Unrelated. They're both artistic, obviously, but she's finding a way now to pull that side of her out that really nurtures her soul. So here's what she does to make a living, you know, eight, 10, whatever, 25 hours a week. But it gives her time to work on her art. And now, which is so interesting at our age, she's now making money from selling her paintings. So. So there is a way, I think, to link those things, but we also have to set our lives up so that our passion and our purpose can align. And do we have the support system and the family structure and maybe the wherewithal business wise to figure out how to do that. And I think that's what's really important. I think about the athletes that I work with, you know, some of the younger athletes that they don't know how they're going to monetize. They don't know if they're going to win or get shows or Olympic champions. They have no idea. They're driven by their passion. And it sometimes it gets shrouded in all the expectation of what's happening externally, what they have to do on social media, how they have to create a brand, how they have to get followers, et cetera. And I remember saying to an athlete last night in a call, and I said, so you want to work on your social media presence? And she's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I said, so can we connect to why? And she's like, well, I need to get there. I need a brand. And I did. I said, do the judges follow you on social media? And she went, I probably not. I said, so let's get grounded into why you want to do that, because it's going to take a lot of time and energy and away from your skating, away from your training, away from your, you know, your meal prep and your community, all the things that you love about skating. And you're going to put all this time and energy in creating a brand and putting on social. I'm not making it wrong, but let's just decide and determine what the why is, because that can be a really dangerous trade.
- [18:04]
A
This goes back to a fundamental, which is, for example, you go into something, a career, job, a business, and it's all about purpose, passion. You're excited about it. And then months or years later, whatever it is, you're struggling with burnout. Now, burnout is something interesting because you're feeling the pressure of the metrics and all the things that you got to deliver on, and all of a sudden it's no longer about that purpose and that passion. And you have that burnout. But this is one thing, and we've talked about it over the course of our podcast many times, and we always link back to values. So in other words, burnout can be a values, a misalignment of values, or you've lost connection to the values, your values. So as much as burnout may be telling you that it's time to quit, it may be just simply telling you that your work has drifted out of alignment from your original intention, the originating intent. So when we think about that languaging, how many times have we said to a client, what was the originating intent? Go back to that place and then come up from there. So in other words, you may not need a new career or a new business. It's really about reconnecting the current career or current business to the cleaner reason, the originating intent. And then start to work backwards and say, where did that get off track? Where did I lose the plot? Where all of a sudden that's. I really, right now I can relate to all of this because I'm feeling that I'm being pulled in a lot of directions. Now, that's not a complaint, but it is a lot of pressure that I putting on myself. And I'm sometimes going, okay, I've got to get back to what, what this is all about, really, you know, and I feel like I'm being pulled in a lot of directions. So I'll just go off on one other thing is that when I think about in the world that I live in, and right now we'll talk about real estate, you know, because I just came back from an event and it was a big event. It was really cool. But it's interesting to note the conversations of the people that were on the stage and, you know, who are considered experts in their field, but what are they known for? But, you know, it's so interesting is that their identity is connected. Not everybody, but I see where some individuals are, their identity from a public perceptive or perception is their identity is about money about them, their ability to make money. That's so interesting. It's not about how they show up, who they are, their passion for their business. It's about, oh, these guys know how to make money. I go, oh, isn't that interesting? Right? So none of it's wrong. I'm just noticing the. Based on this particular conversation is probably if they knew that that's how they were being perceived, they would probably go, what? No, I do. I, you know, I want to be identified for my. My abilities, my passion, my purpose. This is what I love to do, and this is what I do. And I happen to make money doing it. I don't know if that's making sense, but.
- [21:15]
B
Oh, totally.
- [21:16]
A
You know, So I think the problem that we face, and what you're even describing a little bit. Right, is that when we, you know, the highest performers. So I'll use a good friend, but the highest performers, they stay connected to their source.
- [21:34]
B
It's true.
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A
Right. And that's. They always are going back to that, you know, creative people, entrepreneurs, athletes, coaches. They have to protect their. We'll call it their why, that inner reason for what they do and why. For what they do, why they do it. Because when that internal drive starts to shift, the external reward becomes their identity. And that's where the burnout lives, I think.
- [22:05]
B
Yeah, well, think about it. Now I'm a gold medalist. Now I'm an Olympic champion. Now I'm an NHL Stanley cup champion. Now I'm a CEO. Now I'm this now. And so that identity gets caught into it. And that's what they can sometimes equate to the increase in pay or the increase in likes or clicks or exposure. And I think to your point, that circles around back to burnout, because when it's only about that and that it's disconnected, I think what happens is that we reevaluate or we, as humans go, it's not enough anymore. It's not enough.
- [22:45]
A
Yeah, it's such an interesting shift. Like, actually, as I've been investigating, even as we're talking here, I'm thinking about. The question is, what did I used to love to do, but now just feels like a lot of pressure and what external outcome, reward, expectation has attached to it?
- [23:10]
B
And do you think any in that comes with age and experience and just getting tired of the grind or where did we kind of lose the plot in that regard? Because I only am noticing this recently that I'm getting tired and I'm getting frustrated and I'm not. I'm not taking care of some of the little details that I also used to take care of and love to do. Now I just want to hang out in the back 40 with the dogs, you know? You know what I mean? And, you know, clean my house and wash the cars and like, I'm just. I'm not sure where that shifted. And I don't know. It's because I've. I've achieved a lot of my goals and I need a little bit of a Recovery time. Maybe that's.
- [23:57]
A
That could be a reset or a re. Just a reset.
- [24:00]
B
Yeah.
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A
You know. Yeah, I've been. I noticed that today because I had to deal with. My biggest pet peeve. I've said it many times, is bureaucracy. And the. I hate it. And. And I don't even use the word hate often, but I really, really do. And because I had to get on a call with the CRA and I had to go through this whole process, and the inefficiencies are just. To me, it's like, criminal anyways, but that didn't used to bother me. So maybe it's because they're more inefficient now than they used to be. Or I just older and I'm tired, and I've had to do it too many times. I just get tired of it. But I think that aside, I think there's a part of it where we go through these cycles in life as we grow. And, you know, even. It's like when I outgrew our business back in 2006 and said, okay, this is why I need to be an absentee owner. And we've done that quite successfully. So that's one part of it. But I still love the business part of it and the outcome of that business. So I think there's a shift that has to occur for people. And maybe the statement is that the lesson is that we don't get paid for what we love, or we do get paid for what we love, but we can't let the payment become the purpose.
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B
Ooh, that's good. Say that again, cowboy. Slow down.
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A
I don't know if I can.
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B
Okay, so the lesson is do not let the payment become the purpose. The lesson is to. Don't get paid for what you love.
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A
No, you can get paid. No, it's okay to get paid for what you love. Don't let the pain become the purpose.
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B
The purpose. Because money will never fulfill. Like, money can come and go. I mean, I've always said I'm a money magnet. I create. I've got a context for money. But if I focus on money, it just drips through my fingers, you know, And I'm. You know, we don't. We've never carried consumer debt. We live under our means. And I'm really grateful that, you know, we. We learned that early on in our marriage, in our relationship, and ultimately, it's allowed us to have a pretty sweet. And we had this satisfying lifestyle.
- [26:17]
A
Yeah. Well, you know something? It was interesting. So I was on a panel on the weekend, and we were sitting on. Sitting on the stage with. And I was facilitating the panel with half a dozen very, very successful individuals. And there was. We were taking questions from the audience, and somebody had asked the question about success. And as I was listening to responses in the conversation, what it brought me back to around all of this was some people's. They are really driven by money. That's their scorecard. Maybe that's their passion. Maybe that's their purpose. I don't know. But a lot of individuals, as the audience is there, and I had to, you know, I kind of made my statement, which was what I've learned in talking to so many everyday millionaires on the Everyday Millionaire podcast, is that whenever I asked that question, I quit asking that question, because whenever I asked people that question, how do you define success? They often tripped over it. So the point of that was that as I responded to the audience, my kind of lesson was that, first off, you have to be able to define your success. I've given this kind of definition several times. It was from somebody on the podcast. I don't remember who it was, but I asked them randomly because I had quit asking the question, how do you define success for you? And he said, when I wake up in the morning, one of the things I do is get grounded. He takes some breaths, he closes his eyes. He gets present to what it is. And he asks himself the question, am I living the vision for my life? That's the question. And if the answer is yes, then I am being successful. If I'm not, then I have to step back and go, where have I lost the plot, if you will, of what my vision is? So, you know, as. As we speak on stage and as we're, you know, people are looking to learn, and that's all great, but I said, you cannot compare how you see these six people on stage and then compare yourself to any one of us. You have to define your own level. What is success for you? And this all comes back to purpose and passion, is that I think too often people will look at or listen to a podcast or they'll see somebody with a picture beside their Ferrari or whatever, and then all of a sudden, that becomes their vision. And is it really your vision? So just a cautionary note, I think, is really what that is all about, because when I was thinking about who's on that stage, very successful, but not everybody was driven by their scorecard. Ward wasn't dollars and cents. Their scorecard was actually where what they were having an impact in what they were doing in the businesses that they had. And out of that came money.
- [29:29]
B
And that's the thing, right, Is I think about that. And I really appreciate you bringing that up because in every day before. Every morning before I get to bed, I put my hand on my heart and one on my belly and I do my meditation, and I realize I get grounded in how much I love our life and how much I appreciate the journey that we've been on. And to me, connecting to that before I get out of bed gives me that groundedness and it gives me that reminder that by living on purpose and living, you know, true to my values, and I know you make fun of me and you know that we're going to have three or more dogs and six more cats and probably some fainting goats, and, you know, as we go forward, is that, you know, that is by being true to that and being honest about what drives me and what drives me is the gratitude of how hard, you know, we've fought to live our values and how we've been in some ways rejected and isolated, in some ways in business. And I. Oh, for sure, someday I want to do a whole podcast on.
- [30:35]
A
But I think. I think at the end of the day, but I think here on this particular podcast, we have to go back to, you know, the kind of fundamental, you know, where do we lose our purpose and our passion and gets buried under the metrics that we have to measure our success and bills to pay and teams and all the rest of it. The next thing you know, we've lost that kind of grounding part of why this. Why the. Why we do it right, or why anybody does what they're doing. So it's just, I guess at the end of the day, for me, in this particular conversation, it's a gain if you are, in fact, feeling that burnout, feeling that pressure. Go back to the originating intent, See where it went off, see where it's not maybe in alignment with your values anymore. As we grow and mature and we learn and we start to see the world through a different lens, it wouldn't be uncommon to go, this used to be all what I wanted to do. It's just not anymore. It doesn't align with who I am anymore. I've outgrown it, or it hasn't kept up with me or whatever you want to put it. And then you start to make decisions from there. But ultimately, we have to get back realigned with our. Our. What really was the originating intent, our purpose, our passion? If you want to use that language, what did we used to love to do? And we've lost the love for it. Underneath all of the metrics that we use to measure our success, that could be something that we just realign.
- [32:06]
B
So I want to leave, you know, kind of with these five questions. Okay, you ready?
- [32:11]
A
Yep.
- [32:12]
B
So grab a piece of paper and a pen and ask yourself, what did I used to love that now feels like pressure? Number one, what did I used to love that now feels like pressure? I asked myself that. Number two, what external reward or expectation has attached itself, like what is on the outside that has attached itself to what I used to love?
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A
Oh, and what if it was an unstated expectation that you're living on top of, but you've adopted this expectation that nobody, even
- [32:48]
B
this one's really big because of the world I live in, in sport, is what. Am I still choosing this? Or am I performing for approval? Am I trying to fit in? Okay, this one's really cool. What part of this still gives me and brings me energy? Is there still a small part, 5%, 10% that still brings me energy? Can I scratch the surface and find that? And the next one is, how can I protect that piece of me again? How can I find it? How can I find it again? Do I need to? And I. It drives me crazy. There's this thing right now in psychology, is that, you know, they're saying, you got to protect your peace. I'm like, what the hell does that even mean? That's not a thing. You know, you don't have to protect your peace. But how do I protect that part of me? Or how do I uncover and go back and remind myself, even if it is that 5%, how do I protect that little piece of me, that spark that brought me to this level of joy and success and contribution and gratitude?
- [33:56]
A
Well, I heard the question as, how do I protect my peace?
- [33:59]
B
P, E, A, C, E. Oh, yeah, there you go.
- [34:04]
A
Well, that's how I heard what you said. So maybe you misread the quote.
- [34:08]
B
Well, maybe I did. But anyway, the lesson is, don't get paid for what you love. What? But what if we can. What if we get. Get paid for what we love to do and not let it drift off into, you know, profit over purpose. Right?
- [34:24]
A
Yeah.
- [34:25]
B
You know, and because money's not a dirty word. It's not, you know, it's not. Money is the root of all evil. It's the love and the misuse of money and greed and. And all the. That's going on in the world that is the root of all evil. Money allows us to live our purpose. It allows us take care of our families. It allows us to contribute and to donate and give. And I just. I don't want to lose that part of why I love doing what I love.
- [34:50]
A
Okay. I think we beat this to death.
- [34:55]
B
No, don't say that. Remember. Equals velocity.
- [34:58]
A
Clarity equals velocity. That's as clear as I can be today. Okay, we'll call that a wrap.
- [35:05]
B
All right. That was fun.
- [35:08]
A
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening. If you found value in the podcast, please take the time to rate and review and share with others. Share with your friends, as it is my goal to always improve and to provide the highest value for you, the listener. If you have any comments, suggestions or questions you'd like answered, please email me@ceoraincanada.com that's C E O at R E I N canada.com I look forward to hearing from you. And until next time. Patrick, go.