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The Everyday Millionaire and Mindset Matters Podcast
TEDM – Darren Mitchell – Control and Compound; Infinite Banking for Infinite Options (Episode 221)
01:03:41
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- [00:00]
Darren Mitchell
Foreign.
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Patrick Francie
Hi there and welcome to the Everyday Millionaire podcast. My name is Patrick Francie and I am your host and I want to begin by saying thank you for listening. On this show I am having conversations with seemingly ordinary individuals who have achieved some amazing and extraordinary results in both their life and business. My intention is to inspire and help you learn and grow by having my guests share their journey from of how they face and overcome their challenges, but also how they celebrate their many wins. And now let's get on with this show and have a conversation with today's guest. My guest today, Darren Mitchell, is an entrepreneur, a real estate investor, a financial educator and Amazon best selling author. He's also the founder of Control and Compound Financial where his specialty is is helping real estate investors and business owners implement the power of infinite banking. After 20 years of practical experience and constant academic study while doing typical financial planning, he realized the investment strategies handed to advisors by financial institutions were not providing clients with the answers they were looking for or the results that they expected. They were being taught to push products and investment vehicles designed to benefit the banks and insurance companies that made them, not those who had invested. Since then, Darren has spent years learning how to truly help his clients make money. He studied the wealthy and he has learned the secrets that they are using to accomplish their goals in a fraction of the time it takes most people. And today's show he shares his knowledge and a lot of his financial education and how he trains and guides his clients in infinite banking. Without any further delays, let's get this show started. Darren Mitchell, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining me.
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Darren Mitchell
Hey, thanks for having me, Appreciate it.
- [02:15]
Patrick Francie
So Darren, tell me about, you know, the question I often ask is because of course your intro, as good as it is, it never does justice to when I ask my guests, you know, when you talk about control and compound as a business and people say well what do you do or what do you do Darren, what's your answer to that question?
- [02:37]
Darren Mitchell
Yeah, so what we do at Control and Compound, we help business owners and real estate investors across Canada take control of their finances. We use a product called the or concept use called the infinite banking concept where we really put some money, put portion of their money, whether it's corporate assets or personal assets in a position of control so they can multiply those monies and invest in where we think they should be investing the money. And we use a high cash value life insurance. We're experts at that and that's all we do as financial planners. We're not going to do 10 other things that we say we can do everything, we do one thing, we do cash value life insurance for entrepreneurs, real estate investors and high net worth individuals. And we do it really well.
- [03:22]
Patrick Francie
Okay, so let's unpack that a little bit more. You know, it's interesting that I was just speaking at an event this past weekend and there was an individual there who wanted to talk to me about life insurance, but he was due, he was more of doing a bit of a survey. And his question was, you know, when you hear the term life insurance that somebody wants to talk to you about life insurance. What's your response to that? And I go, right away I go, I don't want to have this conversation. I'm not interested in learning more. So that's because I've been in business a very long time, I've looked at life insurance. And the reason I'm kind of approaching it this way, Darren, is because that isn't the case. Now what we're talking about, although you talk about life insurance, it's slightly a different context or quite a big difference in context of what traditionally we think about life insurance. But that's my story. Give me your kind of perspective or how you position it with a potential client in terms of life insurance in that context.
- [04:26]
Darren Mitchell
Yeah. So I think if you want to be financially successful, you need to invest in three different places. You need to invest in yourself. You're the greatest asset you'll ever have. You need to invest in a business and you need to invest in real estate or some other hard asset. But people get ahead of themselves. I believe that's step two. Step number one is where are you going to save your money on a systematic basis or store the wealth that you have now? And I believe that has to be a position of control because usually when the deal of a lifetime happens is when the real estate markets are down or the stock market's down. So step one to me is if you think of your financial plan, the base of your financial plan has to be a position of control. And our experience is that has to be cash or cash value life insurance. And we show clients why cash value life insurance is a million time better place to save your wealth. And when we design these insurance contracts, there's only four products out of 10,000 different options of insurance products in the country that we can use. So when people say insurance is a horrible place for your money, I'm like, I agree 99.9% of the time. But the way we design these specialty contracts is we don't really Focus on the death benefit. We focus on the cash amount. So when we put money into here, whether it's 10 or 100 grand a year, it doesn't matter. That money goes in and that money grows tax free for the rest of your Life, somewhere around 5 or 6%. But you have the ability to literally multiply that money and put it back into yourself, business or real estate. So we call it an and asset. Your money is growing tax free for the rest of your life. You can access it tax free when you die. The death benefit is tax free. Your retirement's tax free. But then you also have an and asset. You have a death benefit and you've multiplied your money via a loan to put back into your business your real estate portfolio or investing in yourself. So we don't think of it as the greatest investment you're ever going to make. We think of it as the foundational investment where you store or save your wealth. And the way we design the contract, it's all about the cash value. The death benefit is, it's important long term, but it's not the focus. So it's not, I need half a million dollars of death benefit. Do I do this well? No. Great. You can use some cheap term insurance, that's for you. But if you want to save your what? Save your. Grow your wealth tax free, tax efficiently. This is the most effective place to store your wealth.
- [06:59]
Patrick Francie
Okay, so walk me through that process. So I'm meeting you for the first time and you're, you know, because I've heard of you and I'm going, tell me more about this and you know, walk me through the process. If you are looking at, you know, Patrick, Francie or anybody else, you can use me as an example or we can just whatever, make a case study up. But give me a case study of what the process looks like that is different than whole life or term insurance or whatever other products are out there. You know, what is the process that I would go through? So if I've got, you know, 50 grand or 25 grand or 100 grand or whatever, a million dollars, like where do we start this conversation? And so that I understand that, okay, I've got this capital and I'm going to take it and I'm going to hand it over or what am I doing?
- [07:50]
Darren Mitchell
Yeah. So great question. So the product we use is a special designed version of a high cash value whole life policy. It's a participating whole life policy where you, it just means you own the fund. But let's walk through an example so let's say someone's a real estate investor and they go, okay, I'm sitting on cash, what can I do with that? Can I put it in an RSP and put it in prison? Sorry, can I put it in a locked in vehicle, government vehicle, where when I want to access it I need to pay a bunch of tax. I can put it in the stock market where it could drop 30 or 40%. I can put it in something volatile. And I would say to the business owner or the real estate investor, you've got lots of risk in your life, right? As a small business owner, you've got 90% of your wealth tied up in one small business. You've got that risk. So for this money, let's take say that $25,000 a year, put it in this high cash value life insurance, it's going to start underwater, but long term, let's say it grows at 5 or 6%. Now we're in year four and let's say you get 100 grand, ballpark or something and you go, hey, I have this real cool opportunity because what a real cool opportunity to buy a piece of real estate, a four plex in small town, wherever, and you go, it's 400 grand and I need to come up with $100,000 deposit. And typically what people do is they get on that compound growth curve where they're saving money and they're compounding. And then when they're ready to invest it or spend it, they cash it out and go back to zero and restart the compounding. So what I learned when I studied the wealthy is they never stop compounding. So just like Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk borrow against their shares, we're going to have a cash value, say of 110,000. And you're going to say, hey, I'd like 100,000 for a down payment. So you're going to call us up or call the insurance company up and you're going to say, I need $100,000 loan. And they will ask you two questions. Do you want a check or do you want it deposited in your bank account? Because These loans are 100% guaranteed of up to 90% of your cash value. So in our example, you borrow 100 grand. Now you go to the bank and you say, hey, I need a mortgage for the rest of it. And the bank says, wait a minute, where'd you get the down payment? Real estate investors always gotta justify where that down payment come from. And I say, cause I'm a real estate investor, Myself, I borrowed from my cash value and they say, oh cool, we don't consider that a loan for borrowing purposes. So it doesn't show up on my credit report, doesn't affect my ability to get the mortgage. So now my money, by taking that $100,000 loan, it's not out of my policy, it's against my policy. So I still have the 110,000 of cash value. So that is going to continue to compound exactly the same as if I didn't take a loan. I got my 100, I do the real estate. You have some cash flow coming in, maybe you refinance it down, down the road, you repay that policy. Loan policy grew completely unaffected. Rinse and repeat. So what we've accomplished, instead of just doing the real estate, by putting the money in the policy first, we've said we've got a rock solid place to save and store our wealth. We're going to have compound interest for the rest of our life uninterrupted. We're going to have a tax free retirement that we can use this for a tax free retirement. We're going to have a death benefit and we're going to have the real estate. So for me, it's the way to just like a bank takes your money when you put it in there and loans it out to everyone else. Well, we're going to act like a bank. That's why I wrote a book called Be the Bank. We're going to act like a bank where we just store our money here, we grow it tax free. And then when that opportunity comes along or financial emergency comes along, you have a guaranteed access to cash. If the market drops 40%, it doesn't affect your policy. So that's the safe money that you save in store. But the bonus is it's going to be a tax free retirement and a death benefit and you get to do.
- [12:04]
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Patrick Francie
Now that's so interesting, but one of the questions I would have with this is that just for explanation, why doesn't the bank consider it when you borrow against it? Is it because it's backed by that policy? Why are they not considering it if you're borrowing against it? Why doesn't that show up in their world?
- [13:24]
Darren Mitchell
Yeah. So the reason why the banks don't consider it a loan for borrowing capacity is if I had $110,000 of cash value like I had in my example, I could choose, it wouldn't be a good choice, but I could choose to say, you know what, cancel that insurance policy. Give me the 110 grand back. So most insurance policies, you put money in, you cancel, you get nothing back or you get a fraction of it back. Because we're front ending this because we're driving down the death benefit as small as possible, most of the money is going to grow your cash. So if you have 110,000 or a million dollars of cash value, you could technically cancel it and cancel that out or, sorry, take that cash out. So the bank considers it an asset then, not a loan for borrowing capacity.
- [14:09]
Patrick Francie
So when you look at what this kind of model is, Darren, you know, what category to put it in because it kind of covers a number of things, you know, not least of which is risk mitigation. And you know, the other part of it has, has an investment component to it. So how do you categorize it if you are, you know, talking to somebody about it?
- [14:31]
Darren Mitchell
Yeah, we just call it a foundational asset where you're going to save and store your wealth. But yeah, to your point, like people say that people often don't care about the death benefit. They say, well, fast forward 10 or 15 years, they care a lot about the death benefit when they realize, hey, it'd be nice maybe to keep these properties in the family. It'd be nice maybe to have the ability to spend my other money or refinance my properties and not worry about dying with a mortgage. If I knew I had millions of Dollars of death benefit because that money is going to continue to grow tax free and your death benefit is going to probably grow to millions of dollars by the. By the time you die. So, you know, I just call it a foundational asset. It's where you save and store your wealth. And then you take that, you multiply it, put it back into yourself business, real estate, or deal with emergencies.
- [15:20]
Patrick Francie
Now, is this primary, you know, is this your primary business when you. I know that you're a real estate investor. I mean, you're an entrepreneur through and through, but is this your primary business? Is this what you're focused on day to day there?
- [15:33]
Darren Mitchell
This is what we do every single day. We've got wealth coaches that we specialize in this one thing that we're talking about now. There's different variations depending upon business owners and if there's a estate tax and all that. But yeah, this is all we do. And our belief is our niche is so tight and firm that, you know, we are experts at this and we don't think anyone else does it better. We don't try to be experts at everyone. I always love the old financial planner that gives you. Gives you his card and lists 37 things he can do for you on both sides of the card. And how can they be experts at all of it? We are experts at this. If you want to talk about how your RSP can go from a 7 to an 8% return, we're not your guys.
- [16:19]
Patrick Francie
So tell me a little bit. Let me give you a bit of background. So first off, I love this model, by the way, and I've had other guests on the show. US Based. And you're not US Based, you're Canada based. You're on the east coast. You're. I think you said Nova Scotia. I'm trying to remember. Yeah, yeah, perfect. You're Nova Scotia and that's your. Your home base. And you've got coaches across the country, is that correct?
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Darren Mitchell
Yes.
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Patrick Francie
And so what got you, like, give me a little background, Darren. What got you on this path? How is it that you. Because you've been doing this for a. What was the fork in the road? Or how is it that you came across this particular business model?
- [16:58]
Darren Mitchell
Yeah, for me, the turning point in my financial world and in my entrepreneurship world happened in 2008. So up till that point, I was a traditional financial advisor. Right. I'd be one of those guys saying, hey, if you do, really, if you trust me and put all your RRSP money with me, I'll do such a Good job. I'll make you poorer in retirement. Retirement into a lower tax bracket. So when you take it out, you'll pay less tax. Right. I look back and laugh at that. But I was actually salmon fishing in Alaska with a friend of mine in 2008, September 29, when the stock market crashed and I bored his truck every hour to go up with my old BlackBerry and hold it up, to try to call the office to say, how's it doing? It's down another thousand, down another thousand. And to me, that was the pivotal moment that I realized I wasn't in control of my client's money and I wasn't in control of my money. So I was still in my 30s at the time. I was going to be fine, but I never wanted to be in that position again where I wasn't in control of my money to give up that control. So I literally spent a couple hundred thousand dollars in two years of my life at that point, traveling around North America, spending a lot of time in the States and Canada, learning what wealthy people do. So I literally studied the wealthy people. And I had just such some incredible mentors, people that would invite me to their homes for days at a time. And just to teach me how they invest money as wealthy people are the wealthy clients that they deal with. And what I gathered from that two years was, holy cow, wealthy people don't panic when the stock market crashes because they don't have all their eggs in that RRSP lotto. Our wealthy people take advantage of opportunities when it comes along, even if the markets are down and things are on sale. And what I found was so many people were doing this concept, this cash value life insurance designed the right way, but no one was talking about it because the banks don't sell it. The financial planners would rather put your money on their asset books. And I was like, well, this is it. This is how I want to go forward. So really, 2008 for me is when I changed my business model completely. And I said, this is what I want to do. And I just transformed my business. And it was from a business perspective, it was fantastic. It was some rough years, totally, totally changing the business model. But I look back now and if that didn't happen, I wouldn't be here where I am today, in control on compound, certainly wouldn't be where it is today.
- [19:40]
Patrick Francie
So I look at this model and you can kind of fill in the gap. But there's a part of it, though, that is, you know, when we look at risk mitigation, wealth preservation, whatever terminology that we want to use because it's a little bit of both. I mean, this does make up for a pretty effective way to have and create a rainy day fund, if you will. So in other words, if you have that, when the tough times come, you have access to that capital and you can literally borrow against it and, or draw it, I guess. But I mean, ultimately it's, it's another way to make sure that to your point, on the risk mitigation side of it, I don't know, I'm looking at it and I go, that's one of the benefits of it, I would think. What's your kind of comment on that?
- [20:25]
Darren Mitchell
Absolutely. So, you know, again, some portion of your portfolio, especially if you're a real estate investor or entrepreneur, you have a lot of risk. Some portion of your portfolio. We say, you know, just like the foundation of your home is the most important part, without a strong foundation, the host crumbles. Your financial plan is the same way, and this is the foundation of your financial plan. So when that disaster happens, the house isn't going to collapse. When that opportunity. So, you know, we can call it an emergency fund. We think it's a lot sexier to call it an opportunity slash emergency fund. Because that's really how I look at it. People go, well, how much do I have to put into this? And I'm like, well, nothing. But how big of an opportunity do you want to take advantage of? So I've got seven figures of cash value. So if the stock market drops 50% next year, maybe I'll all of a sudden warm up to the stock market knowing I could borrow 90% of my cash value, take advantage of that. If we see a big correction in real estate, if we see a big correction in Bitcoin, whenever those, whenever I look at, every time I save money, I'm comfortable putting the money away. Because as an entrepreneur, I used to be hesitant to put money into something like an rsp because what if I need it? I have no problem putting it in here because if I need the money next quarter to make payroll, I know I can take a loan and be fine and not interrupt my growth. But really, for me, it's that opportunity slash emergency fund. Because I tell people every single day, I promise you there's going to be opportunities come your way. And I promise you there's going to be emergencies come your way, financial emergencies and how you're prepared to deal with them. When will change your financial life and the life of your family?
- [22:05]
Patrick Francie
It's so great. Yeah, I mean you can term it however you want, but the concept is the same. Right. And call it a reserve fund, emergency fund, an opportunity fund. But ultimately what it does is it gives you access to capital for whatever you need when you need it. And again that can be reserve, opportunity, emergency, however you want to look at it. But if I'm born against it, is it, what is it? What is the rate based on in terms of the loan?
- [22:30]
Darren Mitchell
Yep. So there's four companies we use and they rate today, they range anywhere from 6.5 to 7.75. Talk to me. Three years ago I would have said 4.7. It was there when interest rates were down. But we talk about, you know, contingent or contingency funds or emergency opportunity funds. But if you fast forward, you know, you're a 40 or 50 year old entrepreneur, real estate investor, you fast forward. Well, what do you do when you're 70 with this and all of a sudden, listen, I don't want to do any more real estate deals, I don't want to buy any more businesses, I don't need to put the money back into my business. What do you do with it then? Well, in retirement we're going to take those tax free loans against our cash value and we're never going to pay those back. So let's say you decide at age 65 or 70, you know what, not going to do any more deals. I don't need to borrow and pay it back and take advantage of opportunities. Why don't I take 100 or 200 grand a year tax free loans and never pay those loans back. And you have the ability not only to not pay the loans back but not pay the interest, they will capitalize the interest and we can get better rates in retirement because there's different loans we can get. So now let's say I die, take 100 grand a year for 10 years and I die owing a million dollars. Well you don't really owe a million dollars because your cash value is billion and a half or two and then your death benefit's 4 million. So the insurance company comes into your family and says hey, here's a $4 million death benefit. But we're going to subtract the million plus interest that Darren spent in his lifetime and we're going to pay you 2.8 million or whatever the number is. So you can check off so many boxes that you're doing that emergency opportunity fund. You're building up a reserve for when an opportunity comes along, your ability to use it in the short term. But then long term, you can literally have a tax free retirement in it. And if we talk corporately, the numbers get so sexy, it's crazy. If you're a small business owner, because we can use corporate dollars.
- [24:37]
Patrick Francie
Okay, so, well, let's unpack this a little bit more because again, I want to make sure that it's really clear to the listeners that, you know, if you're listening to this and you're a business owner or real estate investor, which is to me the same thing. Although you might have a job, if you're a business owner, entrepreneur investor in the world of real estate, you're still an entrepreneur at some level. So you know, if I'm, if I'm listening to this, you know, and I'm wondering if I should reach out or is this for me, you know, what's some of the questions that I'm should be asking myself that would kind of go, you know, something I better, you know, I better, I better talk to Darren. I got to unpack this even more. So what are some of the questions I would be asking myself and if this is right for me or if this is something I want to investigate more?
- [25:24]
Darren Mitchell
Yeah, step one, I'd say who it's not for. So, so who I think it's not for. And this isn't a knock against those people, they're wonderful people. But if you don't have the ability to save at least $10,000 a year, this isn't for you. And I don't say that because we don't want to help you. I say that because there's other strategies you should be looking at as, as a, as a guy that's been in the financial services business, one of the most frustrating things to me early in my career and I still see today, is where I would see people buying a whole life for $100 a month with a $75,000 death benefit. And that would be a guy with a wife and three kids, or wife that didn't work and three kids at home. And I would just lose my mind going, that's not the product for them. They need a million or $2 million of cheap term insurance. So it's really. So if you're not ability, you don't have the ability to save $10,000 a year, then great, you got to work on investing in yourself to make your income up or talk about how to reduce your expenses to get to that point. Start saving in a high savings, high interest savings account. So that's who it's not for, who it really fits for well is again that entrepreneur and real estate investor or a high net worth person. Because let's take the business owner for example. In Canada, most provinces, the first 500,000 you're going to earn inside your business, you're going to pay about 12% tax, 10, 11, 12 depending upon the province. So we call that 88 cent dollars. So let's take a dollar inside your corporation. So for a business owner, if you have retained earnings, which means there's money that you didn't spend at the end of the year sitting in the corp, you've got a couple choices. You can say okay, I've got a dollar in my corporation, I, I can pay that out to myself as a salary and I can be left with 50 cents or I can leave it inside the corp and be left with 88 cents. So people go hey, well 88 cents is way better than 50. So a lot of business owners have cash in there. But what they don't think of when they do that is what additional levels of taxation have I just attracted. CRA loves when you do this because you're going to pay tax on the growth anywhere upwards of 50% you're going to pay tax. When you go to get that out, you're going to pay tax when you die, you're going to pay a boatload of tax if you earn more than 50,000 of passive income because it's going to affect your small business deduction. And now with our new legislation, you're going to have capital gains inclusion of 67% from $1 inside a business. So we're able to take those 88 cent dollars in the business and put that right in the policy inside the business. So now what we've done, we've taken money, put it in a tax free environment in the business, we've eliminated the tax on the growth. When you go to access it, the loans are tax free. When you die, it's tax free. It's no passive income, doesn't affect it at all. And there's no capital gains inclusion because it grows tax free. So if you start talking to a business owner about eliminating 3, 4, 5 levels of taxation, the numbers get crazy. We always got to warn people and we will listen. I'm going to show you the difference between traditional investing and this. But I want to warn you, it's not because we're getting you a 38% return. We're just boring but effective. But if we can eliminate multiple levels of taxation, it can grow faster, it can provide opportunities and then in retirement, you're going to be able to access this tax free. If it's set up right, personal loans, tax free. So you're not kicking the can down the road like an RRSP where there is a day of reckoning coming where the tax is going to be payable. This is going to be an opportunity that you can literally defer the tax. You die, the death benefit flows over the corporation. So for business owners, it's cool. For real estate investors, they always need access to cash, the loan, the ability to get those unstructured loans. You can pay the loan back when you want, how you want. And if you want that flexibility is unheard of. You know, we got a guy works for us, he came from one of the big banks in commercial lending. He's like, when he first learned about it, he's like, holy crap. This is like the holy grail of loans. What do you mean? You decide if you want a loan, you decide if you want to pay it back. You get to all make all those decisions. So we're trying to give that control back. So grow tax free, access it tax free in that bulletproof portion of your financial plan. And then I tell people it's not for all your money. It's, you know, you're going to make the most money investing in yourself, business and real estate. But you've got a store and save your wall sometime. You have to retire sometime and you have yet you have to mitigate risk. And this accomplishes all those things.
- [30:09]
Patrick Francie
Yeah. So I guess if, you know, somebody is in a small business and they got 100 grand or 50 grand or a couple hundred grand sitting in the bank and they're, you know, don't want to. I think we, we may have talked a bit, a little bit before we got on air, but if somebody's got capital sitting there that they don't want to tie it up because they want to have the liquidity should they need it, this would be an option to whatever, take that 100 grand, whatever the number is, park it and have it there again for the opportunity that shows up. Or the reserve fund. Is that in line with your, what you're saying?
- [30:42]
Darren Mitchell
100%. But I would just add to that. So let's say a lot of small business owners, their retirement plan is their holding company, their holdco. So every year, if you can put, you know, if every year, like you're a doctor or a dentist or someone like that that's going to be in business for a long period of time, what are they doing? They're earning money inside their corp, they're taking salary or dividends for a portion and what they're not spending the rolling tax free over into their holdco and then they need to invest that and if again you need to, if they start investing that they could go offside with the $50,000 passive income rule. They could have you know, huge downturns in the market and then they're going to have to pay tax on that to get that out down in retirement. So you know it's, it's, it kind of checks a lot of boxes that you can say okay maybe I have let's say $1 million portfolio and I've got 30% in fixed income. Well what, what's your fixed income going to grow? Well it's going to grow slightly less than this will probably grow on a fully taxable basis and when you need money you'd have to cash that out. Stop the future growth versus this. You could put the money in, grow on a tax free basis and the ability to leverage it to do opportunities and the ability to have a death benefit that's going to take care of all kinds of debts, let the business or the property stay in the family or let you spend a lot more money in retirement because the death benefit is sexy as it doesn't sound to a young person, to a 70 year old with where you are or even here in my province now you picture what housing houses are going to cost in 30 years. I've got a home, let's say it's worth 4 or 5 million in 30 years. Dream of having a mortgage on it at that time. But you know what, if I had a 5 or $10 million death benefit, why wouldn't I take $100,000 a year line of credit against the house die own a million bucks, who gives a crap if there's a $10 million death benefit? So there's so many options that you can use with this. We call it infinite banking for a reason. The infinite options versus what most people are doing is the rolling that dice of the Monte Carlo of the stock market and if that doesn't work out, they're screwed. As opposed to why don't we take a portion portion of that money de risk it and have all these added added benefits?
- [33:07]
Patrick Francie
Is there just, I'm just doing some quick math in my head and you know working through the whole learning process of this whole thing Darren. But you know when you, as I'm listening to you speak I'm going if I can borrow money at 5%. If I borrowed 100 grand and entered it in and put it in this would, would that make sense? Would that like balance out? Would there be an advantage to it on the tax side of it later on?
- [33:29]
Darren Mitchell
Yeah, so, so typically these policies are not typically, always these policies, you're going to have to fund them for a period of time. So you can't put in one lump sum and you're done. So as a minimum you're looking at five or six years contribution. Sometimes we can get a little bit quicker. Ideally you're going to fund it until you retire. And even after you retire people go well I want to pay for 10 years till I retire. And I go okay, where are you going to put your money in year 11? This is growing at say 6% at the time and you can access it and you get, it's going to sit in a bank account at zero. So if you look at, you need to put it in there. Do we have people that borrow for the first year or two premium payment too? Especially in the real estate world? Sure. It's not a good learn to long term strategy to borrow every year for your deposit if you needed to do several years. But one of the cool things is you can actually borrow from your own policy to make the premium payment. So in that example, let's, let's say we did 25,000 this year and 25,000 next year. In year three you go, listen, business just went south, things are terrible. I don't, I can't come up with the 25 grand for year three. And it's like, well, because we put so much of it towards the cash value, you're going to have enough cash value there that you can literally borrow 25,000 of the insurance companies premium. Make the deposit, your policy is going to grow exactly the same as if the premiums were paid because they were paid. And then maybe do that for two, three, four years and then you refinance, you have a good year, you pay off the policy loan down the road, 100,000. You never interrupted that compound interest snowball versus what most people do in traditional investments, they cash it out and stop the comp. It's like start, stop, start, stop this. Once you get on this compound interest curve, you never get off it. And that's what I found the wealthy do. They never stop compounding. They never sell their investments. They find other ways to leverage them to get access to tax efficient money so their investments can continue to grow.
- [35:30]
Patrick Francie
I love it. So let's go back, I want to know a Little bit more about Darren Mitchell and your own journey. Darren, this is a very entrepreneurial way. We were talking off camera just how you are entrepreneurial by spirit. And you know, did you come out of the chute that way? Like, were you always entrepreneurial? What was your, your journey? I mean, at this point in your life you've had a few different opportunities in business, including being a real estate investor. But when you kind of young man growing up or your parents entrepreneurial, I was, I, I'm always curious, is it nature or is it nurture? You know, is it something that your parents were that way, therefore, you know, you kind of followed that path. What is it for you?
- [36:15]
Darren Mitchell
Yeah, my parents, my dad worked for the phone company. My mom was a schoolteacher. And I remember being 13 years old, my mom had a mortgage book back before the Internet and stuff where you could go through at different rates. And I would literally go in the classified ads and find duplexes and figure out the mortgage rates and say we should buy this duplex because the payment and, and I'm sure I was missing a few additional costs at the time. And then when I was 19 years old, I started my own painting company. And I probably learned more in that one year of having my own painting company than I did in my mba. So, you know, and so when I graduated from my mba, like most people since I was a young child, I always dreamed of selling life insurance. So I literally went for an interview in the insurance business for practice because I was like, I got an mba, man, I'm not going to be some friggin short tie insurance salesman. And I went for practice and here I am 30 years later and, and this, this is the field I'm in. So I, I've always been an entrepreneur. I'm a big fan of getting coaches, getting reading, learning mindset. Like all that stuff has been so instrumental in the growth of my businesses that I just, I'm passionate about it and I love dealing with that. That's my favorite part of the business. We chat before we get on. I just love talking to entrepreneurs, I love talking to real estate investors. And I'm like, it's no bs. It's like, tell me what you did, tell me what you do. Like, tell me, you know, and we've got clients all the time. Hey Darren, what do you think of this? What do you think of that? And I love that part of my business because I just, you know, I saw a SAT. I headed my podcast the other day 20 years ago. There were five out of a thousand Canadians were entrepreneurs, and today it's 1.3 out of a thousand. And I think that is such a sad state of affairs for our country because it's. The entrepreneurs are the backbone of our economy, the small businesses, and anything I can do to help support them and be involved in them, I'll do that till the day I die.
- [38:25]
Patrick Francie
Yeah. And certainly that is often my frustration without getting political about it. But when we look at Canada overall and challenges we face about being so low in productivity is, you know, because we have not been nurturing and supporting, you know, Those entrepreneurs, those SMEs of the world, and our productivity's gone down, our manufacturing has gone down, and, you know, it's. It's a sad state of affairs. You know, honestly, entrepreneurs solve problems, they are innovative, they are creative, and that's what, you know, as a country, we need. So it's one of my very big buttons these days as I look at the growth of our public sector employees versus our private sector and just see how quickly we've digressed over the years in terms of what we support. So, again, you're entrepreneurial. You kind of sounds like you. Whatever showed up for you, whatever that fork in the road moment was where you said, no, this is what I want to do. You had a sales guy, you had a. You got interviewed by a sale, an insurance sales guy, and the next thing you know, he pitched you on the deal and down the path you went. And it turns out you loved it.
- [39:36]
Darren Mitchell
Not quite directly. So I actually got hired on the benefits and pension side, so more of a corporate role. And because, you know, I. Because then I thought, you know, well, I wouldn't be one of those life insurance guys because they're. They're losers. Right. So I justified, you know, my first 10 years in business, I was a corporate guy working for various insurance companies. And then I did switch to the individual side, and I was director of sales for a large insurance company. And then when my kids were, I think, two and four, I said to my wife, I'd like to give up my nice, big corporate job with the expense account, nice salary, and I'd like to go start my own business and have an income of zero, honey. How's that sound? And my wife's totally supported it. And then I literally started with zero clients, zero business. That's 19 years ago now. And there's been some. Some wild turns along the way, but the. Really, the last six, seven years has been phenomenal for our business. Once, once I started learning about, you know, not trying to do everything for everybody and, and really narrowing it down and go, we want to be at the best, best at the country at this particular thing, for this particular segment. And that's all our sole focus is or focus has been. And then it's been building the team, building the processes, you know, building how to grow a business, being part of coaching programs. All that stuff has combined to get me where I am today and I'm passionate about it.
- [41:16]
Patrick Francie
Now you were talking earlier on about, you know, I think you used three examples of where you've got to invest. You know, one of those things being invest in yourself. And it was interesting as I was speaking this weekend to a group of real estate investors. You know, one of the things that I said is that you must invest in yourself. But I always kind of expand on it because when we say you must invest in yourself, people often go to the thought of, you know, oh, I got to, you know, I can't afford a coach or I need to hire a coach or that's what we're suggesting. And I always look at it and you know, as I said from stage this weekend, you know, investing in yourself doesn't have to mean you're writing a check to do something. It could literally mean that you're investing time in yourself. You're actually investing in relationships and creating relationships with yourself. I also look at those as investments. But you know, as a coach yourself and as a longtime entrepreneur, having worked with many other entrepreneurs, what are some of the kind of things that you see in entrepreneurs starting out that might be an oversight? What would be kind of a, a heads up that you might give somebody who's considering being an entrepreneur or going on the journey of real estate investing? Perhaps. What is, what's some of the takeaways that you often see that, you know, you would put in a correction early on?
- [42:34]
Darren Mitchell
I would say you're going to burn through more cash than you ever think you're going to burn, burn through. I talked to a young person the other day that may have, may not, may or may not have been my son and was, oh, I wish I had more money to put in Bitcoin. Because he, the young guys kind of love that stuff. And I said to him, I go, okay, what's the learning opportunity here? I go, you didn't have an opportunity fund to take advantage of the opportunity that came along. We never know when the opportunity is going to come along. So I even look at people that are thinking of being an entrepreneur someday. I look at this strategy and not to talk about this strategy, but this is a place to save and store your wealth because you're not going to use your RSPS to start a business. You're not going to use your RSPS as an emergency fund. So I tell people, plan in advance what you want to do, but also don't be an entrepreneur just because you're a really good plumber. Like one of my favorite books is the E Myth. And it was like, you know, don't just buy yourself a job if you're going to be doing that, your job. So, and then the last part is I tell people, especially with real estate, fire. Ready, aim. So many people have, have paralysis by analysis that they spend so much time analyzing this. Or you know, you know, I speak at these conferences and you get to a conference and you're all excited and you're pumped up or you listen to a podcast, you go, oh, I got to do that, I gotta, I gotta learn about that, I gotta do that. And then they don't do anything. And your point, it doesn't have to be costly, right? You can watch a podcast, listen to a podcast for free, right? The Kindle version of My book is 99 cents. Okay. I just want people to read the book to educate them on, on, on, on, on how to be an entrepreneur and what, what you should be doing. So there's so many free resources. And then the last story I'll share we for a real estate story. We had a client a few years ago now he's 24 years old. He joined a real estate group like I did, I'm a member of rain, joined a real estate group and said, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to hire a coach. And he hired a coach. And it was a lot of money for him at the time. He bought a 14 unit apartment building later that year with none of his own money down and had great strategies and how to did it, how he did it. And he bought it like four, four or five years ago now. So he's made all kinds of money off that. But what are most people his age get worked up about? Did my 5 or $10,000 RRSP contribution do 6 or 8%? Who gives a crap? You know, it doesn't have to be a lot of money to invest in yourself or it doesn't have to be any, but you know, level yourself up. You know, we've got some charts that we used to show people and say if you could invest in yourself, Instead of a 3% increase each year, you could get a 15% increase in your earning potential over the next, over your working career. The difference is $23 million or some crazy number. And people don't think of, in making themselves better. They think of, oh, I go to work and then how do I invest my money that what I have? And I say, don't worry, especially when you're younger, about what you have, learn about what you offer, and if you can increase the value that you're worth, you'll increase your earnings so many times over than you will just, you know, setting a little money aside, investing like everybody else.
- [46:05]
Patrick Francie
And I love that. And so this is a great point to insert. Give me the title of your book and the title of your podcast. We're going to put the description in or we'll put the links in the description, but why don't we do a shout out for your book and your podcast right now?
- [46:19]
Darren Mitchell
Sure. So my book's available on Amazon, Amazon bestseller called Be the Bank by Darren Mitchell. I have a second one called Infinite Banking for real estate investors. And then our web, our website's Control and Compound. And our podcast is Controlling Compound with Darren Mitchell. And we've got probably 170 episodes on there where we just talk about business, we talk about investments, we talk about cash value, life insurance and Infinite Banking. Talk a little bit about bitcoin and just entrepreneur stuff. Like we, we did our, we shared our core values the other day on a podcast that, that, the system we're using, like we, we share what we're doing too, because, and we tell people when we fail too. I love when I have these friends in Birmingham of mine and they're always like, well, that didn't work. You know, we tried this and we tried, you know, and I always liked that, that, that, that honesty of stuff. And I tell people I've made horrible decisions through my life. I can, I, I got a whole list of them, but I learned it from every one of them to say, okay, what did I learn from that mistake? So we, we try to share all that in the podcast and they're only like 20, 25 minutes. We don't a lot of fluff about what we did on the weekend and we just want to get factual information to people.
- [47:31]
Patrick Francie
Yeah, it's so interesting. You know, I've literally this past year celebrated my 40th year in business. And it's like, how many mistakes? You know, people are so afraid of failure and so afraid of making mistakes. And I'm going, you got to, that's the first thing you got to get comfortable with knowing that you're going to make mistakes, you're not going to get the outcome. And I don't even like to look at them as mistakes. A very, very wealthy friend of mine once shared the story that he doesn't make mistakes, he just gets a result. And he either likes the result or he doesn't. And if he doesn't like the result, he puts in the correction or he just kicks the whole idea to the curb and moves on. He doesn't look at it as a mistake. And he was that way kind of right when he was a very young man and has never changed that thought process. It doesn't even compute in his brain that a mistake. It was just, nope, didn't. That didn't work, was the wrong result. Boom, he puts in the correction or he kicks the whole idea to the curb. And I go, well, you got to admire that. I mean, it works for him. But you know, to your point is that, you know, one of the mistakes that I've certainly made or the lessons that I've learned over the years is, you know, don't build a baby grand piano if you don't know that that's what you really need. You know, take action, start to move, and then build as you go. And you may end up that you just need a player piano. That's it. You know, you don't need a baby grand yet. If you invest all that time and energy and money into a baby grand and it goes, no, that's not. Or it doesn't even work, you know, that's the other side of it. So it's like, you know, just create as you go. And one other little story to that. A good friend of mine is built that way and he literally is the guy that, you know, we joke about it, he'll jump out of the plane without a parachute because he's 100% confident that he'll build the parachute by the time he hits the ground. And he's just designed that way so he doesn't worry about figuring it all out. There's where I'm going, I'm going to start moving and I'll do what I need to do as I go along. So philosophically, what's your thoughts on that, Darren?
- [49:34]
Darren Mitchell
Yeah, I totally agree. I think some people are wired different than others, so everyone's going to be going to be different. But I, I'm a big, big fan of mindset and it's like if you just believe where we're going to get to. So one of the books I really, really love from dan Sullivan is 10x is easier than 2x. And, and I remember reading that and it was, it was so pivotal for me because I was like, wait a minute. So if I want to double my business, all I got to do is work twice as many hours and work twice as hard.
- [50:06]
Patrick Francie
Yeah.
- [50:06]
Darren Mitchell
But if I'm going to 10x my business, wait a minute. Well, I'm going to need a director of marketing, I'm going to need a director of sales, I'm going to need this many wealth coach and you start thinking differently. And now just my mind is always 10xing. Now it's how do I 10x control and compound. And we're, you know, we've got a four year plan to Ted exit and we're, you know, we're hitting our targets. But it's, it's such a, such an exercise if you believe it in your mind, where the destination is. There's going to be lots of pivots and turns and you know, all the time we're like, let's try this. Well, that didn't work. What did we learn? We learned we're not good at that, but, well, we learned. Okay, what did we take from it? And I tell young people all the time ago, start a business, start a house, start a side hustle, do real estate. I don't care if you fail. You will learn so much from that journey. And the more times you fail, the more likely you are to succeed in the, in the, in the next one from what you learned. But it's to your friend's comment of jumping out without a parachute. It's to have that confidence that it wasn't a failure in the end of your life. It was a great learning experience and now you're going to be better for the next venture.
- [51:16]
Patrick Francie
Well, I think there's lots of analogies on the podcast that my wife Stephanie and I do under the everyday millionaire, which is mindset matters. We talk a lot about mindset. She's an athletic mental performance coach at both Olympic and world class levels. And of course we start to understand that. You know, part of the analogy I'll use is if you look at a mountain and it's worthy of the climb, you can chart the path, but there's just subtle things that you're not going to see as you climb the mountain. And as you climb the mountain, you may slip and you may fall, you may go, holy cow, I just took three steps forward and I got to take 10 steps back to reroute and go around the mountain, however, is still worthy of the climb. The path I take to get up the mountain, I'll figure out as I go. And that one for me is really kind of pragmatic in its thought process, because I get that. And that really is the case if you believe the mountain that you're about to climb is worthy of the climb and that you want to get to the top. To your point about 10xing, if that is the ultimate, this is where I've chosen to climb. You're going to start climbing and along the way, you know, rocks are going to fall, the path's going to get washed out, things are going to change. You're going to have to reroute your path. Although you looked at the mountain and you go, well, let's just take that path. It's not straight up the side like you thought it was. You have to traverse, go backwards, go forwards, and face all the challenges that you face. So that one for me and my brain kind of computes how my business life has been.
- [52:53]
Darren Mitchell
I like that. I like that. So. So the financial world, we always talk about a mountain different than what you is. But we're on the mountain theory mountain game now. So we always talk with. If you had. We look at a mountain as retirement mountain. You climb it in the accumulation stage and then you come down it in the decumulation stage where you're spending your assets. And what I find is 99% of advisors, they're only taking you to the top of the mountain. So it's like, I've got to save a million, two, five, ten. And then you get up there and you hit retirement and it's like, well, what now? How do I spend that money each year and make sure I don't run out? How do I. Because what people do is they hang on to the scarcity of I don't want to run out of money and they're scared to spend it. So we always use the Sherpa analogy. If you're going to hire a Sherpa, would you want to hire someone that could get you to the top of the mountain or someone that could get you to the top of the mountain and safely down the other end. So that's. From a financial standpoint, we think of Too many people are climbing the mountain. Commercials about, oh, how much money do you have over your head in retirement? And stuff, like 3 million, I don't give a crap. People come into my office when they're retired and say, how much can I spend? And not Run out of money and live a good Life.
- [54:02]
Patrick Francie
Yeah, yeah, 100% interesting. Now you talk about, I mean we, you talk about 10x and Dan Sullivan and you've worked with Dan Sullivan over the year. And what's interesting about Dan, I mean he's a legend. And to your point, I think he's in that 80ish range and he's still shows up, still chugs away and does what he does. He wrote, co wrote the book with Dan Hardy, Gap and the Gain, which was for me was a really awesome book. I had my team read it and many of my chosen family and some friends read it and we literally live into that whole thought process of the gap and the gain. Again, a little bit of mindset, but there's a lot of practicality to it. You know, what's your observation? Working with a coach, the quality of Dan Sullivan as an example.
- [54:49]
Darren Mitchell
Yeah. So I'm like I said, part of the strategic coach program and I couldn't be happier because as an entrepreneur we're different, right? Like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5% of the population, whatever stat you want to look at. And most of my friends around here aren't entrepreneurs and they aren't people taking this risk or this crazy, crazy adventure. And just to be in a room for two days every quarter where everyone in the room is an entrepreneur that has been through stuff and I probably learn more in the breaks and the lunches that I learned sometimes in the classes. But it literally as an entrepreneur I find your go, go, go, go. And just to have two days to stop and think about your business, how to grow your business, how to produce a self managing business or a self multiplying business and the exercises you do, it's literally been transformational to me because it helped with the mindset so much that you see others do it. Like the 10x for example, I remember going through an exercise, I'm like 10x, that's still crazy, right? And then it's like okay, here's the exercise. We're going to go back to a point that you were 1 10th the size you were now. And then it was like oh yeah, okay. I remember there was a point like when I started out I was like I. So it's like well you've already 10x. And it's like well yeah, do you know more now than you did in the last whatever many years it took you to 10x? And it's like damn right I know way more. Well, shouldn't the next 10x be easier? And then you're like, well, yeah, like, and, and just that, that ability to step away from your business, talk to other entrepreneurs. And again, I'm a huge fan of, of coaches, whether it's a real estate coach, whether it's a business coach, whether it's a life coach, whether it's a health coach, whether it's personal trainer. Like all that stuff I think is, you know, if, if Tom Brady and Tiger woods have, have a bunch of coaches, what makes you think you don't need one?
- [56:53]
Patrick Francie
Isn't that the truth? You know, the. It's interesting that a long time ago, a friend of mine and well, he came, became a friend of mine, you know, he used the analogy, he goes, when we look at around the world, at the best in the world, at what they do, and he used athletics as an example, he used race car driving as an example. He used actors as an example. And every single one of those individuals and teams have a coach. They have a performance coach, they have psychologists and psychiatrists and nutrition coaches and physical coaches and game coaches and technical coaches. So they're coached to the nth degree. But it's funny about how entrepreneurs or, and again, I always look at real estate investors as being entrepreneurial. Treat your real estate investing like a business has always been our mantra. But you start to realize that, you know, as entrepreneurs, we think we should go it alone. We should have all the answers and, you know, we don't. We look at a coach as a cost as opposed to an investment in our learning and in actually speeding up our learning process and don't have to figure stuff out. Go and learn on the shoulders of the giants that have gone before yet that is, that in itself is a mental breakthrough that has to happen. What's your thoughts on that, Derek?
- [58:16]
Darren Mitchell
Yeah, 100%. And my experience is probably, probably 12, 13 years ago the first time I had a business coach. Same with fire. Ready, aim. Just do it. Just, just do it. Try it for a period of time and I think you'll learn so much that then you'll look and go, well, why didn't I do this sooner? It's kind of like your first real estate purchase. Like, why, why didn't I do this sooner? I wish I had done this before. And then if it doesn't work out, that's cool. You would have learned a lot from that. I mean, I have coaches I don't use anymore that I still think of some of the things that they taught me in the wage way just to like, say about going to a, to, to a conference I'm a big fan of going to. To conferences and stuff because you don't need to learn everything they know. It can be one or two or three nuggets that could change your life, that you could learn from a coach, from a conference, from a speaker, from a book, you know, to. To take a small piece and put it into your world. So I have never had a coach that I haven't been way better off. I've had better coaches and worse coaches, but I've never had a coach that I wasn't better for the money I have spent. And back to my point of I believe you're the greatest asset. So if you're the greatest asset in your life, you are literally the golden goose. Whatever you do to make you better is going to be the most impactful on your financial future. Why wouldn't you want to invest in the thing that is your greatest asset that can have the biggest impact on your financial future?
- [59:44]
Patrick Francie
Beautiful. So, Darren, as we start to wind down, I want to comment on one thing. I mean, control and compound. What a great name for a business. And I know you got lots of narrative around it, but it really does say it all, given what you do. And so great name, but as we start to wind down, I always like to just lighten it up a little bit with a couple of, we'll call them rapid fire questions. You okay with that?
- [60:05]
Darren Mitchell
Sure.
- [60:06]
Patrick Francie
They're not challenging, but we can make it fun a little bit. Okay, so first question. IPhone or Android?
- [60:14]
Darren Mitchell
IPhone.
- [60:15]
Patrick Francie
Oh, so by the way, I'm an iPhone guy too, but I have to share. My iPhone blew up three days ago. I'm out of town. Hardware issue, green screen. It won't reboot, it won't like. It won't do anything. Long story short, as much as we look at our phones as both a blessing and a curse, we start to realize that, you know, the habits and the addiction to phones and swiping or whatever that might be in behind all that, they are a necessary tool. And they're not only necessary for communication, they're also necessary these days because it's really tough to access some of the things that you need to access because of the additional security. And I have to say that, you know, I came to, you know, I probably. My addiction is probably not so bad, although others might argue that point. Maybe it is, I don't know. But the point is, is that as a tool. So I'm traveling, I've got no phone. I have people trying to get a hold of me. I'm you know, where I can get a signal on my, you know, I took the SIM card, I put it in my iPad, you know, I faked it through my, you know, my LAPT and going, holy crap, what a pain in the butt. You know, go to get an Uber. Oh no, you can't do that. Go to show my boarding pass. Oh no, you don't have a phone like it. Oh, I want to get into this particular program on my laptop. No, it's going to send me notification. The waste of time. It just drove me crazy.
- [61:54]
Darren Mitchell
Anyway, remind me of my friends with androids when we try to have imessage and it's like, oh, well, can we use WhatsApp or what? Oh, come on, just get an iPhone.
- [62:03]
Patrick Francie
Exactly. First time I had it, it crashed. Man, oh man. Okay, favorite song, favorite band. Do you have one?
- [62:12]
Darren Mitchell
The whole Batter to Hell album by Meatloaf.
- [62:16]
Patrick Francie
Oh, you know something, it's. I bought that album. I go off on these, this tangent here. I bought that album the first time I bought, or I bought the album many years ago. I was probably 19, so that was how long ago that album came out. But I bought it because of the album cover and then because it was such a cool looking album cover. And then I got home, I played it on my like ridiculously expensive $600 stereo, which was like crazy back then anyways, and it was like, wow, this is a great album. I wore it out. I could probably sing that whole album, you know, verbatim. Not that anybody would want to listen to it, but I could sing along quite a. Quite, quite easily. Although I haven't heard it for a long time, I listen to it a lot. That's a good one though. Good one. Movie? Favorite movie?
- [63:05]
Darren Mitchell
Major League.
- [63:07]
Patrick Francie
Oh, good one.
- [63:08]
Darren Mitchell
It's got a good university remembrance. We watched it a thousand times and it was the only thing we quoted for like four years.
- [63:16]
Patrick Francie
That's great. If there is a God and you arrive at the gates, what do you hope? He says.
- [63:23]
Darren Mitchell
You did good. Come on in.
- [63:25]
Patrick Francie
Good job. Come on in. That is a good one, isn't it? And Darren, final question for now. What are you grateful for?
- [63:32]
Darren Mitchell
I am grateful that I have a wonderful family and a wonderful staff and wonderful clients. And I'm just so grateful every day to be able to hopefully make their lives a little better. Because they make my life a lot better.
- [63:47]
Patrick Francie
Beautiful. I am always immensely grateful for the guests that I'm able to enjoy having some conversation with. I always learn something and like you, I'm immensely grateful for my family. Darren. Thanks for joining me on the show today. Appreciate your insights and the wisdom that you shared today.
- [64:04]
Darren Mitchell
Thanks so much Patrick. Anytime.
- [64:07]
Patrick Francie
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening. If you found value in the podcast, please take the time to to rate and review and share with others. Share with your friends as it is my goal to always improve and to provide the highest value for you, the listener. If you have any comments, suggestions or questions you'd like answered, please email me@ceoraincanada.com that's ceor e I n canada.com I look forward to hearing from you. And until until next time, Patrick goes.