← The Everyday Millionaire and Mindset Matters Podcast
The Everyday Millionaire and Mindset Matters Podcast
TEDM – Matt Theriault – Building Epic Wealth, Through the Power of Real Estate (Episode 223)
01:08:15
Loading summary
Transcript145 lines
- [00:00]
Matt Thoreau
Foreign.
- [00:04]
Patrick Francie
Hi there and welcome to the Everyday Millionaire podcast. My name is Patrick Francie and I am your host and I want to begin by saying thank you for listening. On this show I am having conversations with seemingly ordinary individuals who have achieved some amazing and extraordinary results in both their life and business. My intention is to inspire and help you learn and grow by having my guests share their journey of how they face and overcome their challenges, but also how they celebrate their their many wins. And now let's get on with this show and have a conversation with today's guest. My guest today, Matt Thoreau, is nothing short of inspiring. After serving as a Desert Storm veteran, Matt transitioned into the world of real estate where he discovered his True calling. Since 2003, he's been helping countless individuals attain financial independence with creative investment strategies. He's also the author of Escape the Rat Race with Real Estate Investing, which was a game changing book that challenges conventional financial wisdom. In this episode, Matt shares his journey from military to real estate success, revealing how anyone, regardless of background, can actually build wealth without traditional financing. We're going to dive into market opportunities, the power of leveraging other people's money, and the essential role of passive income in financ financial security. If you're looking to break free from the conventional 40 year work plan and embrace financial freedom, this conversation is a must. Listen, let's get to it. Matt Dario, welcome to the Everyday Millionaire podcast. Thanks for joining me.
- [01:51]
Matt Thoreau
Thanks for having me, Patrick. Pleasure to be here.
- [01:53]
Patrick Francie
Now I'm excited to have you on the show. We had the honor of being on your show recently and I like to open my podcast with a fundamental from my guest which is as much as I can share your bio, you do a far better job of it. So when somebody says to you these days, Matt, what do you do? What is your answer to the question these days?
- [02:17]
Matt Thoreau
Well, we show people how busy professionals specifically how to invest in real estate and create passive income so they can retire early. And I give, I guide them through if they want to be more hands on, if they want to be more hands off, then my wife steps in and she has a turnkey operation. And, and that's what we do and that's how we help them.
- [02:38]
Patrick Francie
Now you're based in the US and is it specific to a state? Is it specific to the US overall? Like what is your, do you have a geographic region that you specialize in?
- [02:50]
Matt Thoreau
Yeah, so we're, we're cash flow investors so we're very focused on positive cash flowing properties and most of that in the United States is going to exist in the Midwest and in the South. So we are working in 10 different markets there and people ask how would we pick those markets? And it's really, really easy. And it's never the answer anyone wants to hear because they want to hear the, the secret tidbits of the economy or whatever. But it's really just where our best property managers are. We find that your property management is probably more important than the property in most cases. I mean, there's exceptions and you can find that for sure. But really, I mean, the property is not going to perform by itself. So that's where our best property managers are.
- [03:32]
Patrick Francie
Now when you say property managers, are these kind of trusted partner type property managers or are these under your umbrella, your guidance, your team? How do you break that out, just out of curiosity?
- [03:43]
Matt Thoreau
Yeah, they're all individual operators and we have properties, our own Mercedes and I have our own properties with each one of them, multiple properties. And then, gosh, we've been doing this, what, 13, 14 years at cash flow savvy. And so we probably got 40, 50 clients with each one of them. And you know, so we have great relationships long term. And what's really nice is when you've got that much focus on their business. That's not the word I'm looking for. When we have that many customers, I guess under with a property, with a property manager, you tend to get a little preferential treatment and all of our clients get to benefit from that. So, gosh, I have a fancy saying and it's just escaped me right now, but strength in numbers really. And so that's, that's our, where we get most of our control over those.
- [04:31]
Patrick Francie
Well, I want to dig into that a little bit more, but before I go there, you know, when you kind of were describing it, it sounds like you have a very specific demographic that you do business or want to do business with. And are they generally busy professionals, high income or high net worth already, and they're looking to place capital? It doesn't sound like you're in the space of saying, you know, somebody who's just starting out investing, still trying to figure out how to spell real estate. That doesn't sound like it, but you know, give me your kind of model.
- [05:04]
Matt Thoreau
Yeah, so busy professional is a, an expression that we use here frequently and, but there's two types of them. There's the type that, you know, they've been at their job for a while, they have a nice salary and they might, just might be bored and are ready to do Something else and want to kind of take control of the reins of their life and their opportunities. And they're. Those people will typically come to me because they want to learn how to do this full time or at least in a part time capacity, you know, and it augments their passive income. It helps build up their portfolio like that. Then there's the other type that are very happy with what they're doing. They just have money to deploy and they want to diversify their portfolio, but they don't want to do all the heavy lifting or they don't really want to learn how to do it. They just want somebody else to do it for them. And those are the types that will go to Mercedes. That's who she attracts over there and who she helps.
- [06:00]
Patrick Francie
So they're the armchair type investors who are saying, okay, show me a product that I can invest in, whether that's through joint venture or, I don't know, some other connection where they. Are you partnering with them or are you selling real estate in behind that as well? Or is it really just, okay, here's a great asset, here's how we'll unfold, how this will unfold. And here's your opportunity to buy in, whether it be multifamily, I'm assuming mostly multifamily, maybe some commercial.
- [06:29]
Matt Thoreau
No, really, we focus almost exclusively on single family.
- [06:32]
Patrick Francie
Okay.
- [06:33]
Matt Thoreau
I think in the United States that's where the future of the value is. And we can get into that why? I think so, but I think that's where it is. And we look at all of our clients as partners. We're always here to help and partner with them. But if they come to buy a property, they are the sole owner, they call the shots. We just do all the work for them and help them accomplish what they want to accomplish.
- [06:56]
Patrick Francie
Well, it's interesting, I want to go back to something you talked about, property management, and then we'll come back again here, bounce around a little bit. But I think it matters is that when we talk about property management, there's a fundamental which I'm now starting to change my own narrative around property management to being asset management. You know, as we grow these portfolios and we add real estate to it, as much as we think in terms of property management, it really is asset management. It really is, you know, taking the time to make sure that things are looked after. Our clients slash tenants are looked after, the property's maintained properly, it's profitable, we're getting maximum rents. That really does boil down to asset management. And I think that Phrase actually does it more justice than property management. That's my view of it. I know it's not a new phrase, but I'm kind of adopting it myself more. What's your thoughts on it, Matt?
- [07:55]
Matt Thoreau
Well, I mean property is certainly an asset, right? To me it's, I guess it's a little bit of semantics. Maybe property management might have a little bit of a stigma attached to it, but if they were to manage more different types of assets other than just property, then that makes a whole lot of sense to me. But I don't have a problem with it.
- [08:13]
Patrick Francie
Yeah, again it is semantics for sure, but it's like the difference between a customer and a client. And this is just kind of for discussion. You know, I've always looked at a customer. When you think about a customer, maybe you're thinking of a transactional way of being. So in other words, you know, 711 will have a customer, a lawyer, a massage therapist, an accountant has a client. And so when we think in terms of client, we think relationally. When we think in terms of customer, it is transactional. Now that's not to diminish or minimize one over the other, but those semantics actually shifts our own view of who we're dealing with. And so when I talk about property management versus an asset management, it's those little subtle nuances that I think are important. But I just want to get your perspective on it and that's fine. I don't have an attachment to it. It was just a kind of a fresh thought process that's been shown up for me.
- [09:08]
Matt Thoreau
I like it from yours and my perspective. Yeah, but then from the, the client's perspective, if they hear asset manager, what are they actually thinking? They might. Oh, you do more than real estate. So might be an extra level of explanation of that.
- [09:23]
Patrick Francie
MO Point to point taken. I mean that could be very, very valid in all of it. Now when you look at the journey that you been on, you're now 13 years. Ish. Or 15 I think you said, into the world of real estate and investing. How did you end up on the journey of real estate even to begin with?
- [09:41]
Matt Thoreau
Oh wow. Total accident. And you know, when I got out of the Marine Corps, I was spent probably the next 15 years of my life in the music business. And I had a small little record label, we had major label distribution and, and when this thing called, I don't know if you remember it, Napster, did they have that in Canada?
- [09:58]
Patrick Francie
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Napster for sure.
- [09:59]
Matt Thoreau
That was pretty global. Yeah, it turned the whole music Industry completely upside down and rendered me pretty much out of business and bankrupt within six months of that happening.
- [10:08]
Patrick Francie
Wow.
- [10:09]
Matt Thoreau
And it was probably, we were pretty much out of business before probably the general population even knew what a digital download was. Because we were. Our music was underground hip hop. So it was like independent. It wasn't major label stuff. It wasn't a lot of stuff you're hearing on the radio or anything like that. And whether it was underground hip hop or underground rock or underground dance music, it was that independent music consumer that really embraced the digital download the fastest first. And so, God, they just put us out of business because they stopped buying CDs and just went and downloaded it. So it impacted us way before it did, like the Metallicas of the world or the Michael Jacksons of the world. So we're out of business before even itunes was a thing because of it. And so that was the age that I was, what, 34 years old and I didn't know how to do anything else in life. I knew nothing. And I went out into the job market and found out really quickly that I wasn't qualified for anything based on job descriptions. And so I went to kind of what you, I guess you're left with are all the sales opportunities. So I looked at insurance, I looked at cars, I went and did that and then I went ran through a number of different multi level marketing programs and just, you know, it was a nice education, but it was a tough way to make a living and ended up just bagging groceries at 34 years old. And fortunately the super, the supermarket was on strike at the time. So they were paying well above what you'd start at. They're paying $21 an hour. And to me I was like, well, that ain't so bad, you know, because my only reference point to hourly wage was when I was 17 years old and I was washing golf carts at 4am in the morning. I was doing that for $3 and I think 35 cents is what minimum wage was way back then. And so I was like, $21. Hey, that's pretty good.
- [12:05]
Patrick Francie
Big boat, big do.
- [12:07]
Matt Thoreau
Yeah, yeah. Until I got my first paycheck. And I was like, oh, who's this guy? Fica?
- [12:13]
Patrick Francie
I don't know.
- [12:13]
Matt Thoreau
Do you guys have a FICA up there in Canada?
- [12:15]
Patrick Francie
Oh, a different version of it, but we know where it all goes.
- [12:18]
Matt Thoreau
You have to reach in and take a piece of it. And so I was there for about six months and really having like the biggest pity party in the world and blaming everybody and Everything for my situation. And this was unfair. You know, I felt like I was halfway through life and why am I starting over again? So I was pretty bitter about the whole thing. And I really missed my money. I made my millions before. Before I turned the age of 30 without even trying. Like, I wasn't focused on goals or habits or success secrets or anything like that. I just got up and did what I did, and people paid me for it. I had no idea how blessed I was at the time, but here I was not blessed. And I guess blessed to be still alive and breathing and had a job, but the. The grocery store manager, of all people. We were the same age, but turned out to be like the one person that had this giant pivotal moment for me that turned me towards real estate. He and I, since we were the same age, we had a lot in common. We got along, but he's managing the store, I'm bagging groceries. And he said, you know, Matt, let me show you what I've done. I'm 34 years old. I've been pushing carts here since I was 16. I only got two years away, and I'll be tier 20 years. And at 20 years, I'll be able to take 70% of my full salary for the rest of my life. That was like, he could stay till 30, he'd get it all, but if he left at 20, he got 70% of it. He goes, but this is what I've done. Along the way, I've been able to purchase a few apartment buildings, and the passive income from my apartment buildings will exceed actually that 70%. And then he said these words to me. I said, matt, if you really want your money back, it's just gotta be real estate. It's the final frontier where the average person has a legitimate shot at creating real wealth. And there were so many words in it that just resonated with me. And it hit me at such the right time, because when he said the final frontier, I was like kind of believing him because I had tried and looked at so many different things and keep hitting a dead end. And then he said, where the final frontier were the average person. And at that point in my life, I was feeling far below average. Like, who am I to aspire to be above average at this point in my life? And then he said, where you can make legitimate wealth, like real money? I'm like, okay. And I knew I had to learn something, how to do something else in life. So I was like, well, that sounds like it. If that's the final frontier Then, I don't know, more guessing for me. Let's just go for it. And so I did what I thought was the logical thing and I went and became a real estate agent. And it took me about four years to figure out if this is where all the money's at. It's really sitting on the other side of the desk.
- [14:54]
Patrick Francie
You're busy making your clients rich. You on the other hand, are grinding.
- [14:58]
Matt Thoreau
Exactly. And I had a couple clients, one in particular, they were partners and you know, they just gave me repeat business over and over and over again. I just sat by the fax machine when they used fax machines. And I just wait for them to fax their orders and they'd fax in offers, they'd fax in this listing agreements for all their properties. And there was one Saturday morning, it was, we had a meeting at 10:30am I'll never forget it. I was dressed up in a suit and tie. I was all ready for them. I had all their documents laid out on the table waiting for their signatures. And they walk in about 20 minutes late, they're in jeans and a T shirt and they sign their documents and they took off for the weekend. Then I was stuck there to process all the paperwork and then go hold one of their houses open for the weekend. And I was just like this, something's not right here. And then I looked at the closing statements that we've done all the business we've done together and I just got to really put side by side the difference between commissions and profit. And it was that weekend I just made the decision like, okay, that's it. I'm not going to represent anybody else in their transactions. We're just going to work on my own behalf. I'm going to buy and sell on my own behalf. And that's really how I ended up in real estate. As a real estate investor, I went and made a large investment in my education. That was in 2005. I remember that program was $22,000. And everybody I knew, I was absolutely insane. Yeah, I remember my grandma when I was telling her what I was going to do. It's funny, this is the type of family background that I come from is when I was in the music business, no one in my family really understood what I did. But you know, I never had less than a six figure bank account in cash. And I'd hit crested seven figures multiple times in my life. And my grandma was just always so worried about me. Oh, honey, dear, when are you going to get a job? You know you're doing out there, you're playing with that music and stuff, and, you know, it's just not that dependable. Are you putting some money away for a rainy day and all this kind of stuff? And I'm just like, my grandma had no idea that I was making, you know, a million bucks a year in personal revenue and personal income.
- [16:58]
Patrick Francie
Yeah.
- [16:58]
Matt Thoreau
And then with this time when I got the. When I ended up bagging groceries, she's like, oh, thank goodness you finally got a real job. Right. That's the mindset from. Of my family. They were all civil servants. I had a lot of cops, a lot of firemen and teachers and aerospace engineers and stuff like that, but just very traditional.
- [17:19]
Patrick Francie
But that leads me to a question I often ask my guests. You know, is entrepreneurship? Is it nature or nurture? And in this case, in your case, it was survival that drew you down that particular path. You had your entrepreneurial accident, which is what I refer to as my stuff, because I like you, I didn't come from an entrepreneurial background, but through some stuff that went down in the early 80s and, you know, shut down of an economy. The only job I ever had ended in 1983. And in 1984, I had what I refer to as my entrepreneurial accident. And that was the last time, you know, that was. That was now my new path of, you know, entrepreneurial kind of endeavors, as well as real estate investing and so on and so forth. So it is interesting. But you said you were. You were a Marine for a while. Is that. Did you. Was that a few years. What was your background in terms of your military?
- [18:16]
Matt Thoreau
I was just telling somebody. He was asking me, how do I end up in the Marines? And I was like, well, you know, there's kind of a convergence of three different things going on in my life. I was raised by a single mother, and so kind of once I started getting my later years as a teenager, and I really kind of felt inadequate. I didn't feel like a man. Right. I didn't have that role model, and I felt kind of wimpy, and I was shy and just didn't have a whole lot of confidence and kind of just wished I had someone to come and kick me in the ass every once in a while. And I really missed that because I saw it with my friends. They had the dad and, like, they just. They had a different disposition about them, and I was envious of that. And the other thing was, right at the end of high school here, and I don't know if it's that way, where you are if you have the same experience, but kind of like the end of the junior year, all through the senior year, we're really talking about this transition from high school to college, like, what this prep is going to look like and what are you going to choose as your career? And you better choose right. And everything just felt like it was the final decision or else your life was screwed at the time.
- [19:20]
Patrick Francie
Time. Big deal.
- [19:21]
Matt Thoreau
Yeah, yeah. And. And then they run down the statistics, like, if you don't go straight to college, then you're. You have 73% chance you're not going to finish and you're going to be a bum. And I got to remember those types of things. And there's that. And then I was like, then also I had this kind of fear of going out and being on my own and having to work and actually have to pay bills. I didn't come from a poor family. I mean, we ate and then we had a roof over our head at all times. But it just looked like such a big deal to go to work and have to be responsible for all that. So those types three fears kind of came together at the same time. And I was like, okay, let's. I'm gonna join the military so I can go to boot camp, and I know I'll get someone to kick my ass there. And then I can. I know that I'll never be homeless, right? And then since we didn't have the money, I got accepted to usc. And I really wanted to go to USC so badly my entire life, but we didn't have the money for it. So I went and decided I can get the GI Bill and hopefully I can work my way into USC that way. So the. The military kind of satisfied all three of those biggest things that were going on in my life, and, boy, they solved them all too. It was actually a really good choice. I hated every second of them that, that I was in the military and. But boy, I'm so. I get more proud of it every. The longer that I'm out of it.
- [20:42]
Patrick Francie
So it's interesting that you bring up, you know, because I'm really built around, you know, personal professional development and always striving to be the best version of yourself. All the kind of things that I look at. And when you're describing the conversation or the thought process that you're going through before joining the military, you're actually having a pretty advanced or mature conversation with yourself. You know, single mom, you recognize that you don't have the influence of a dad. Because you're observing other friends who do have the influence of their dad, and at some point you're saying, I need somebody to kick my ass. That's pretty advanced in its thinking. I'm wondering, was your mom instrumental in supporting that thought process? Did you have mentors along the way? I had a dad, although my dad and I were not tight. You know, I fought with my dad consistently to the day he died, you know. But my question for you is that. So in. In my own. In my own world, there's parts of me that go, I really didn't have a dad. I certainly didn't have the dad that I observed other kids having. So that's an interesting kind of view of the world. But from you, were you getting guidance outside of, let's say, your mom, or was your mom pretty. Pretty strong in that way?
- [22:00]
Matt Thoreau
Yeah, I think that was all. Came from an inside. It was all internalized. My mom was super supportive.
- [22:06]
Patrick Francie
The.
- [22:07]
Matt Thoreau
The. You know, everyone loves their mom. Right. She's just. She could do no wrong in my eyes.
- [22:11]
Patrick Francie
Yeah.
- [22:12]
Matt Thoreau
She was a mom. She was a female. Right. There's only so much she could do from a certain capacity. Always supportive and, you know, always had me believing in myself, and you could do whatever you set your mind to and all that type of stuff. So I had all that love and support from my mom. But, you know, there's just certain things that a mom can't do for a son.
- [22:30]
Patrick Francie
Yeah. But it's a great awareness that any young man would have to bring themselves to that place, then actually make a commitment to do something probably like joining the military is a courageous decision. It's a courageous move to actually sign the paper and start in the military. Now, I never served in the military, of course, but ultimately, you know, those. It's pretty clear what it takes to be in the military and to go through their programs and to do the things that you do within the military. So it's just an observation that I make because then I link it always to, okay, well, how did you evolve as a man and as a business owner, as an entrepreneur? You then went on the journey of, you know, discovery in terms of, okay, I've got this great music business. Bam. Technology takes over, kicks your ass. You pivot for a year or whatever that took you, but ultimately, you pivot. You pick it up, you take responsibility for your life, even though at times you're feeling like a victim, but you own it all, and you get into the world of real estate, so good on you. And you're doing that because you're observing certain things that to me is a very advanced, mature awareness that you had. And so I just wanted to comment on that as you're doing it. So when you got into real estate, did you have some capital carryover from your business or did you lose it all in the business so you were really starting from scratch when you went into the real estate world?
- [23:59]
Matt Thoreau
Well, it took probably 70% of my cash to join that one program, that $22,000 education program. So I took almost everything. And I was fortunate enough that I got just by doing what they told me to do, I closed my first deal, flipped it, and put $27,000 in my pocket inside of the first 60 days.
- [24:18]
Patrick Francie
Nice.
- [24:18]
Matt Thoreau
So I had some nice cash there. I'd recouped my money from my education, everything was feeling good. But then it was like eight months before I did my next deal. And that's where I got a real taste. Looking back, I, you know, I really got lucky on that first deal. It was kind of a fluke type thing, but so I kind of had this impression like, oh, this is easy. I got this, no problem. And so those eight months, I kind of just squandered and, you know, $27,000 spread out over eight months. It doesn't last very long. So when I really got started, like when I really became full time and got serious about it, I really had nothing. I was, yeah, I barely had two nickels to rub together.
- [24:59]
Patrick Francie
You went into the single family world, and when you're talking about single family, are you talking about five doors or less? Or like less than five doors? Are you talking about single family as in, you know, a bungalow that you then suite it or not? What was kind of the model that you started with?
- [25:17]
Matt Thoreau
Yeah, just single family homes. One family under one roof. And, you know, we have a few duplexes and stuff in our, in our portfolio, but those are all accidents as well. But it just was simple to me. It was easy for me to understand, and we bit off a little bit more that we can chew a couple times in some multi family stuff and, you know, we got out of there with minimal wounds. But it's really not the same thing. It's not. You know, 40 units under one roof is not the same as 40 houses. It is two different things. And to me, I was like, oh, Gosh, I had 50 houses at the time. What is this, the 40 in a building? Hey, I get to double my portfolio just like that. How difficult could it be? And, you know, in hindsight, I tried to do it from afar. I tried to abdicate everything instead of delegate. And, you know, I got my butt handed to me. But with the houses, it was just like if the one house was disrupted or something, you know, was off there. It was just one house. Right. I had 49 other houses I didn't have to worry about building. If something went off with that building, that's 40 units I'm dealing with. And that was kind of like the big difference that I detected. And I'm just kind of stuck with single family houses. And right now, what I feel like today, I had no idea it was going to be the right move, but I feel like it's the best move I could have ever made as it stands today and how the economy sits.
- [26:39]
Patrick Francie
Well, it's interesting too, is that, you know, in Canada, there's not a hope in hell that you're. You're rarely going to find a single family, as in something without an additional dwelling unit of some sort that will ever cash flow. And I mean, even that is a stretch depending on what part of the country you live in. Our. I think our average single family home is in that 700,000 range, $680,000 range. So there's just no way that you're ever going to cash flow with one property. Now, never say never. There's always things that show up and opportunities that show up. And. And I get it. So I have some single family myself that literally are single family. They're bungalows. But I bought them, you know, 20 years ago, so they're all but paid for, number one. Number two, you know, when I bought them back then, the math actually worked. The math no longer works, of course, and that's the benefits of owning real estate to begin with. So when you look at the programs that you developed, when did you decide that or what was the kind of catalyst, if you will, for why you and your wife started saying, okay, well, let's turn this into an education program. Let's turn this into a program where we're supporting this particular demographic. What was the thought process? Was it just a way to scale your business and to make money doing that? What was kind of the philosophy behind that, Matt?
- [28:03]
Matt Thoreau
Yeah, all of that. No, the. So there's this little book, I don't know if you've heard of it before, called Rich Dad, Poor Daddy. You heard of that book?
- [28:11]
Patrick Francie
Yeah, just a little one. Yeah, just that kind of. Oh, somewhere in my memory banks. Yeah.
- [28:16]
Matt Thoreau
So I was introduced to that book and, you know, that was a pivotal book for me. Just like it was for so many entrepreneurs. But it introduced me to the concept of passive income. And, you know, I speak English. I can take the word passive and income and put them together and probably figure out what it means. But I'd never been taught that as a thing to pursue as to be intentional about creating it. I was in the music business, and it was all about wealthy to me was just, how big can I get my bank account? And then when I read that book, it was more like, well, how much money can I get coming in every month without me having to work for it? So two totally different mindsets. And, you know, it comes down to a transaction. It's totally different desired outcome. So, long story short, his. His whole rat race escape formula is to get your passive income to monthly passive income to exceed your monthly bills. And you can do that in two ways. You can push your expenses down, and you can push your. Or you can push your income up, or I chose to do both at the same time. And I was able to accomplish that and escape the rat race, be financially free, like in three and a half years. So with that, I mean, and so kind of the distinction there now was I wasn't wealthy by any means, but I didn't have to work. And being at under 40, 39 years old at the time, and having experienced both of those, having a lot of money in the bank but still having to work every day, having barely any money in the bank and not having to work, I like that second one better. It was just, I slept better. I was just much more. I didn't get to do all the fun things and travel and everything at that time, like at that moment. But it just felt so much better. Like, you know, I would say when the alarm clock goes off, you can roll out of bed or you can roll over. And it's nice to have that option. And so that was. That was the first part of it, of how it transitioned into education, was when people know you just a few years earlier, you're bagging groceries for essentially minimum wage, and now you're playing golf on a Tuesday, and you invite them and they can't go. It's like they're like, well, what are you doing? How can you do this? Right? And so I got invited out to a lot of coffees and a lot of lunches. Can I just pick your brain? I heard that so many times, like, pick your brain. What'd you do? What'd you do? And so I was like, wow, no one knows how to do this. Like, if I hadn't crossed paths with that grocery store manager. I might not know how to do it. And so that was the first part. And then the second part, like when I had like a 30 day retirement and you know, you can only go to the gym so many times, you can only go to the driving range so many times, you can only go to the movies so many times, and you can only go to happy hour so many times by yourself. Right? Because everyone else was working. So after 30 days I was bored. Okay, now it's time to go. So I want to go create, create a new stream of passive income. So do I just get more houses or do something else? So I was my alert. My antennas were up for seminars and workshops and, and I'd go to Barnes and Noble, I go to the bookstore all the time and just constantly doing research and finding out what it was next. And I went to this one thing where they talked about these membership websites of how, hey, you can just go ahead and actually let me back up. There was one thing I went to where he said, is a guy giving a speech saying, hey, wealthy people, they do this, this is how they all get wealthy. They get really good at one thing and then figure out multiple ways to generate revenue from it. I was like, ah, okay. And he said, kind of the first thing that people will do is they'll go out and be a consultant or they'll go out and it'll be a teacher or a tutor, right? And so I, I was like, had that in my head, maybe I could teach because a lot of my friends want to do this. Maybe that's some. How would I do that though? And then I went to this little seminar where they had these membership websites. And he's saying, hey, you just take your expertise out of your head, you put it on video and you put it in a paywall and people are going to pay you 300 bucks a month for it. And I was like, hot damn, let's do it. So the whole thing was not necessarily wanting to teach. It was wanting to create an additional stream of passive income. I wanted to diversify. I had houses now I was going to have the Internet. That was a long time ago. And the Internet was this wild frontier steal. I mean, it cost $5,000 to build a website at that time. And so that's what I did. And I was like, oh my gosh, I don't have to talk to anybody or anything. And so that was kind of what started it. And then there was one, it was the Monday after a Thanksgiving weekend, and I came home. I don't know what I was doing at the gym or something, and my wife Mercedes said, hey, I got you a coaching client. And I was like, what do you mean you got me a coaching client? Well, this guy called and he said he listened to your podcast all over the entire Thanksgiving weekend, and he wants to work with you personally, I think, well, I don't want to do that. He says, she got too late. He already wired the money. And so that's how I became a coach. Just like that. That's the true story. And I was like, well, what am I going to do? I've never done this before. Is it just tell him to do what you would do? I was like, you think that'll work? It just was not in the plans. And then so that's what I did. And by golly, that guy still to this day is probably one of my most successful students. And that just kind of opened it up. And I had no idea what a gift it was to share that with somebody and watch them succeed with it. And it sounds kind of mushy, and it sounds like, oh, yeah, you did it for the money. I totally did it for the money, of course. But I had no idea that that was going to happen and it was going to make me feel that way. And then I started teaching more, and now. Now it's just. It's a very fulfilling way of earning a living.
- [34:07]
Patrick Francie
There's nothing wrong with being paid to do what you love to do. And when you can start, part of what drives you is being able to make a difference, a positive difference in other people's lives, and you get paid for it. I mean, gosh, I mean, how much better a gig could you get? You know, this is something that. You know, I've had these conversations many times over the years, and I joke about being on the Freedom 95 program, because ultimately, I just don't ever see myself not doing some version of what I do in terms of my coaching, and whether that be in business or real estate or personal professional development, it's what I love to do, and I'd love to get paid for it. But if I didn't love to see the results that my clients get and the difference that can be made in their life, then I wouldn't do it. Because ultimately, there's other ways to make money, and we want to make money doing what we love to do. And if making a difference matters, then. Then you're doing that, and I love that. I love that whole concept. So when you look at, you know, again, you know, as I. As you're describing all this, Matt, it's really kind of fascinating. And I want to say, you know, interesting about the book, you know, rich dad, Poor dad, you know, eight years of doing this podcast and, you know, really hundreds of guests over the years, as well as what I do just within the real estate investment network, I would say 90% of my guests have read and bring up the book Rich Dad, Poor dad as a pivotal kind of book that they read that opened up their eyes to the possibilities and a different way of viewing the world. And Robert Kiyosaki at this point in his life can get a little off color and a little out there, but ultimately his message has been pretty much the same throughout. And I really, I honor what Robert has been in the world. I mean, there's a guy who's made a difference to millions of people, and I really admire him for what he's done along the way. For you as well, though, as you're describing this, you know, you got. You read the book. That's one part of it. But, you know, you're the guy. Your manager when you were doing your groceries, then your client and Mercedes finding you a client. These all seem like little forks in the road. Do you see it that way?
- [36:16]
Matt Thoreau
Yeah. You know, I remember underneath my. The comments in my YouTube, on my YouTube channel, this was probably. I don't know, I was probably three or four years into training and had the podcast and had the YouTube channel. I had an education program, had some coaching clients, and there was some snarky comment down below like, oh, just another shyster guru or something like that. And I was like, guru? Did he just call me a guru? Is that what I am? Right? It was like, it's. It's just all so accidental. Yeah, it was just all accidental. And, yeah, so, yeah, I would call it that.
- [37:03]
Patrick Francie
Yeah, I'll call it. But, you know, it's interesting is that when we look at those fork in the road moments, in hindsight, of course, we look at it and you go, okay, you could have picked a different. Different path. He could have made a different decision. How you read Robert Kiyosaki. I mean, think about the millions of people who've wrote or read that book and didn't choose to go that path. They went back to work the next day with this book in the back of their mind thinking about it, what they could have, should have, would have, I should. You know, they live in that world and do nothing with it. And then there's individuals like you and I have a very similar story and experience after reading a couple of those books, including Rich Dad, Poor dad, where, oh, holy cow, this totally made sense. And it gave me a path to follow and a direction to go. So it was a fork in the road moment for me as well. Again, though, when you think about the relationship you and your wife Mercedes have, let me ask you this, is that, I mean, you guys are partners in business. How instrumental is it to have the relationship with your wife and how you guys push each other? Is that the case? How important has it been having a significant other as part of your business and part of your journey?
- [38:12]
Matt Thoreau
It's. Gosh, there's three different ways I could approach this. First, we always get asked to be on a panel at some little place on how do you work with your spouse. So apparently that's a issue out there that we're completely unaware of. We get asked that frequently. But she's also my third wife. And the first two, we were not on the same page professionally. We were not on the same page financially. And looking back, that was a huge source of contention. And a lot of times it wasn't direct. Like, we weren't arguing over money, but we might have been arguing indirectly on how we're paying bills and how we don't have enough or, you know, so when I met Mercedes, we actually met at a real estate seminar. And so we kind of had this thing, this common professional interest in common, and it's made all the difference in the world. It's just like there's no conversations. If I go to a seminar and choose to buy some widget, right? Some silver bullet or something, I don't have to come over and explain and justify.
- [39:34]
Patrick Francie
You're right.
- [39:34]
Matt Thoreau
He gets it. She's okay. So how does this work? How are we going to do this? Right? So that's a very different experience than I had the first two times. So there's that. So it has been extremely. Like, there's not even a push. It's just support. You go do what you want to do. I got you. Let me know if you need any help. And so that's a great, great relationship. And I don't know if I would have recognized how great it is if I didn't have those first two in the beginning, because they were totally the opposite.
- [40:00]
Patrick Francie
Well, I think. I think, you know, your first two wives are what I would refer to as practice wives. And that's what made you a really great husband for Mercedes and really got you into how to be in a relationship in a powerful way. You know, it's interesting that I have, you know, so Stephanie and I have been together 33 years, married for coming up 30 years. And she, like me, is very entrepreneurial. She has different businesses. And as much as we cross paths and we're together in business, we're apart in business. So. But we're crisscrossing back and forth within each other's businesses. I have skill sets that she doesn't have and vice versa. But to your point, around having somebody that gets behind you or you're shooting, you're bouncing ideas off, she's not a dream killer. She's. Oh, tell me more. Well, that sounds cool. Let's do this. And then if I don't do it, she's the same person that's coming in going, oh, what the hell? I thought you said you were going to do that. What's going on? Why are you chickening out? Like, it's. It's that kind of, you know, push in terms of it. And like you, we often get asked, how the hell do you guys work together? And to us, it's just what we do. I don't know that we have a formula around it. If you heard us discuss things, you'd think we were fighting. Our friends know that that's just not how. We're not. Although. But we're. We can get pretty in your face, you know, each other's face around stuff, but we're not taking stuff personally. We're not hurting each other's feelings, and we're not delivering things in a personal way. We're a heated debate at best, you know, But I think to others, that sometimes may sound like we're bickering, which we're not. It's not that at all. It's just how we communicate because we cut to the chase really fast. Is that how you and Mercedes sometimes operate? If somebody was watching, you'd go, whoa, that's intense. Or how do you guys operate?
- [41:48]
Matt Thoreau
Yeah, we're pretty straightforward. Sometimes she will say, I don't like it when you talk to me that.
- [41:54]
Patrick Francie
Way in front of, that's good. Oh, yeah, well, that's. That's good. Keep you honest.
- [41:59]
Matt Thoreau
But I would say, like, I would have said it the exact same way if you weren't my wife. So how do I talk to you then? Right. So there's. But then when we go home, like, it's the work stays at work. And actually we talk about work all day long. But we each. We actually each actually have Our own company, because mine is Epic Real Estate and hers is cash flow savvy. But there's overlap. When we share a lot of customers, they go back and forth. Right. Because our customers have the same goal, they just have different ideas on how they want to go about it. And achieve it. And achieve it. So although we do work together, there's a lot of time that we, we don't communicate at all.
- [42:41]
Patrick Francie
Yeah, exactly. We're exactly the same way. So that's very interesting. I want to go back and kind of go down a path a little bit. Matt, just from your perspective, having had the experience of Napster and technology and what happened with the fallout of technology, when we look at what's happening in the world in 2024 and beyond, we've got AI just taking, seems like taking over the world and it's just getting warmed up. You know, we're talking self driving cars, we're talking about how even real estate has transacted over the past four years in terms of how we view real estate, how we see it, how we interact with our realtors. I mean a lot of things are happening because technology continues to kind of control or manage the world. If you're looking for a disruptor that you're aware of, given the industry you're in, is there one that you're nervous about or one that you're excited about that could in fact change the game of real estate? Any thoughts around that at all?
- [43:36]
Matt Thoreau
I would say it's institutional buyers. I think we have a very small window to buy real estate right now. Yeah, I think, I'm trying to say without sounding cliche, but they're buying as much as they can. Right. BlackRock is, you know, they're on track what to own 60% of all single family houses.
- [44:00]
Patrick Francie
And they own the world. They own the world, they own everything.
- [44:03]
Matt Thoreau
Right. They're just looking for more stuff to buy.
- [44:05]
Patrick Francie
Yeah.
- [44:05]
Matt Thoreau
And they've taken all of their real estate acquisition stuff overseas. Now they're trying to buy everything. I mean they'll, we'll own the world at some point, but in our. And I don't care if they do. I just want to make sure that I got a little piece of it. And I kind of, I have a philosophy that, you know, a rising tide lifts all boats and they're going to buy, buy, buy, and that tide is going to rise, rise, rise. I just want to make sure I got as many boats in the water as I can so I can ride up with them.
- [44:30]
Patrick Francie
And so, you know, that's A. It's interesting that you say that. And I'll interrupt. I just interrupt for a second. You know, all boats rise on a high tide. It's interesting. Is that a phrase? Just this morning that I was working out with my trainer and he had. He's got a very wealthy client, that he was sharing some aspects of some of the challenges that my trainer's going through as a small business owner. And he does more than just being a trainer, but his client's very wealthy, multi, multi million dollar business. And my trainer was describing to his client, you know, this dilemma he feels of a small business versus big business. And he said to his client, he goes, you know, you seem to have it all figured out. You know, like you've got this business, it just seems to keep on going. I never see you complain about what's going on in the world. It just is what it is. And his client described to him, and he goes, listen, he says, just keep one thing in mind. We're all in the same ocean. And he said, my boat may be bigger, but. And I can maybe take some more waves, but when the waves that rock my boat, rock my boat, my boat really gets rocked. He goes, it will bury you, no doubt about it. And he goes, but if the waves get big enough, they bury me too. So he says, this depends on where you are in the ocean that makes a difference. And if you've got a small boat and you're in a safer part of the ocean, you're good. And he says, where? I'm out in the middle of the sea and I'm getting hammered. So he says, it's all about perspective and it's about all you see. And I went, that's kind of an interesting analogy, really, when we think about it, what you just described, right, which is we're all in the same ocean. All. All boats rise on the same or on a high tide. But having said that, where you are in harbor makes a difference, right? As to how, how you weather any storms that come your way in terms of technology. And you. We are involved with a. We'll call it a bit of a. It's not really a startup. They're well on their way where the technology, they can literally take $30,000, 30,000 properties, put in what they need and distill it down in real math, real numbers based on current rents, current prices to the top five properties out of those 30 that work within their system. So it's a filter, very accurate, deadly accurate, all built around the MLS system. But then they can write offers on those five properties all at once. And if it was 100 properties, they could write offers on all 100 properties all within minutes. That's technology and that is really basic technology. There's even more than it out there. So what that means to, you know, mom and pop investors or small business owners like you or I, I'm not quite sure yet other than the blackrock's move in and they write offers, you know, boof. You know, they'll write offers on a thousand properties in a heartbeat and then have the wherewithal to be able to close on those deals and carry through on the offers. So I see some disruption in that technology. When you look at real estate and the I know the US not unlike Canada, Canada's overpriced, blah blah, blah, all the rest of it. But you've got those same stories happening in the US when you look at what's happening economically, geopolitically, however you may look at the world, you're obvious, obviously very bullish on real estate. So given you have the same issues with immigration going into the US as we have with immigration coming into Canada, way too many people, not enough housing depending on where you're at. And I'm talking about the US because you are certainly have states that are more plugged up than others. But are you thinking about that as you invest in real estate that you're going, you know, some the demand isn't going to go away and there is no hope in hell that they're going to be able to build and keep up on the single family front. Is that kind of your thought process, Matt?
- [48:30]
Matt Thoreau
1,000%. The demand supply imbalance is so lopsided. You know, it's funny because if I went and just went out with supply and demand and we were just talking about cookies and you know, if there's one person that walks into the to the store to buy all of these cookies, you know the kind of the customer dictates how much if they're going to buy or not. Right. And so that the price gets set that way. If there's a line down the street trying to get in to buy these cookies and there's more people than there are cookies, then the store owner can just raise the prices and they're still going to sell all the cookies. Everybody gets that concept. When you're talking about something like that, they totally abandon that concept. When you're talking about real estate, oh no, but it's going to crash. It always crashes. They totally disregard supply and demand and what you just said is so true. I mean, there's so many more people. There's one stat, the astonishing thing. Okay, let's set immigration aside. Although it's real and it's there and it's having its impact. I'm not. But just say that didn't. That wasn't there. If you look in the United States right now, the biggest generation are the millennials. And the peak age of the millennial, I believe is right around 32 years old. So there are more 32 year olds in the United States than any other age. And the average first time home buyer is 36. So the next three or four years, there's going to be more demand for real estate than any other time in the history of the country. It can only go up. It's why they keep raising the interest rates. And the prices aren't going down. Right. Because there's just so much demand. Well, who could afford a house? Well, maybe not you, but someone can or else the prices wouldn't be going up. Right. Or they'll say, well, you know, houses, it's going to crash. Housing prices fell 16% in my neighborhood just this year. I said, well, the median went up, so that means it went up 16% somewhere else. That's how math works. Right. And people just, they have these ideas and these preconceived notions about what real estate is always going to do. And what they're not looking at is like what we're experiencing right now has never happened before in the history of the country. We've never had this many people. Now you take immigration and put it on top of that, so that just bolstered the demand. And then you take the institutions like a blackrock State Street Vanguard, that. What did that just do to demand? The demand is so darn lopsided. And there's not a. It's like it can only go one way.
- [51:09]
Patrick Francie
And that's not to be, that's not to say I'm sure that there isn't going to be glitches and pullbacks over a year or two at certain time. But if we're investing in real estate, we're looking long term. If you're looking at real estate trying to time the market, get in and get out, that's a totally different strategy. Not making it wrong, but what you're talking about cash flow, you're talking about buy and hold type properties. So you're in for the long term anyways.
- [51:31]
Matt Thoreau
Yep. I mean, if you would have bought 10 houses the day before Lehman Brothers went out of business the day before. So you paid the most you could have possibly paid for those houses. And if you just held onto them, didn't sell them, they tripled in value. Like the worst time in history to buy the house was that day. And if you held onto them, you still tripled your money.
- [51:55]
Patrick Francie
And that is in fact the game. And that's sometimes where people get into trouble. They over leverage, they overextend. So if they bought at the peak of the market, but they also did it with 5% down and or borrowed money and they're 100% in or 110% in, that's where people got into trouble. And I know that's not what you're suggesting, but that's the point of it all. And you know, there is a fundamental which is follow the money. And follow the Money says, oh, BlackRock's buying. You might want to consider owning some real estate, given even that fundamental around all of it, you know, and understanding that, I think there's another aspect of it that you mentioned around millennials.
- [52:32]
Matt Thoreau
Quickly, what you just said, follow the money. I just released a video about three, about three or four weeks ago, and it was follow the people for real estate. Because real estate doesn't work without people.
- [52:45]
Patrick Francie
You gotta have it.
- [52:46]
Matt Thoreau
So wherever the people are going, as a real estate investor, that's where you want to go.
- [52:50]
Patrick Francie
Yeah.
- [52:51]
Matt Thoreau
So following the money, it's time honored wisdom. Right. And it always works, for sure, and it solves certain types of things. But if you're looking for where the best place to invest in real estate, you want to follow the people.
- [53:00]
Patrick Francie
Well, that's a fundamental, that's an economic fundamental. And you follow the people. And if you follow the people, you'll note that wherever they're going, there's jobs. And so if you start to see GDP in a specific region grow, you know, there's jobs, that means population's going to move in, that means there's going to be rental demand, that means that there's going to be increases in rents and eventually increases in prices. That's a pretty proven model through and through. When you look at those economic fundamentals and then certainly more to it than all of that, but you know, you make a really valid point in all of the follow the people conversation. Something that you mentioned though, and I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on it, is you talk about millennials, you know, whatever, 32 years old, they're going to soon be 35. There's a big trend in Toronto, Canada, of course, was these three four, 500 square foot condos, you know, boxes in the sky. I mean, your walk in closets, probably that big. The point is, is that people are living there and they think that that's never going to end. And I'm looking at it going, here's my view of it. In spite of what we know and the trends that are saying people are having less kids and kids don't, or these millennials don't even want to have children, ultimately it's easy to say you don't want to have children when you're 25, as you get older and you start to realize the value of having relationship and having children, that will, I think, change. And these individuals will in fact go, no, I want to have kids. I want to be in relationship. Life's pretty empty without it. I don't want to be a lonely old man, whatever the story might be, or old woman. The point is, is that at some point those 32, them, 35 year olds are going, okay, I want to fall in love. I want to have children. I want to have a place to put my, you know, to live and whatever, whatever that might look like, you know, it was the white picket fence or whatever. But having said all that, that trend I don't think is going to go away. It may be not as dramatic as it was for, let's say, me as a boomer in my age category back then when I was 35, but certainly I see that trend continuing. What's your thoughts?
- [55:12]
Matt Thoreau
Yeah, it probably will, but I don't think it matters because there's enough people that have already been born to support my theory.
- [55:21]
Patrick Francie
Oh. So, yeah, so it doesn't really matter. That's, that's. So it's a moot point. Although it matters maybe, but not, not.
- [55:28]
Matt Thoreau
In any meaningful way for my son and grandkids. Maybe they have to think about that more. But I mean, I got, you know, I got 25 more summers here on this earth. You know what I mean? And that's just that many. Yeah, but I'm just like, by then I'll have cashed out and I'll be, sit, I'll be fine. Anyway, right? So I, I really think the supply and demand dynamic right now promotes the best job security over the next 10 to 15 years as far as real estate being that job security. So get involved in some way because it's only going to go up. And you talk about the, the train like it just came out. The Elon Musk is ready to launch his little $10,000 cubes. Right. There's little $10,000 houses and I could see that being a disruptor potentially or like the little 500 or, excuse me, 500 square foot condos you were talking about, that could be a disruptor. But when you're living in a little cube or a 500 square foot place, how much more valuable and awesome is owning a single family house?
- [56:35]
Patrick Francie
Well, that's exactly right.
- [56:37]
Matt Thoreau
Right.
- [56:38]
Patrick Francie
And I think too is that from an affordability point of view, when we look at what technology is doing, and we'll just kind of go off on a tangent a little bit, is that you have to consider that kids today, and I know I've got nieces and nephews who are 40 and although they drive a vehicle, they do it begrudgingly, they do it in a minimalistic kind of way. And as we know, we're not far off from having autonomous vehicles, self driving vehicles. I mean, that's probably as little as a couple of years away. It's already happening in some regions. My wife was in Japan and she literally went from wherever it was in Japan, three hours on a autonomous bus. She was the only one on the bus, by the way. No driver took her to the airport. It's already happening. It's just we're not seeing it necessarily in North America, but it's already out there. Which means that the cost of living, actually when you look at discretionary income, you can choose to not own a vehicle. And when you consider the cost of the vehicle, the cost of insurance, the cost of operation, that puts a few hundred dollars in your bank account every month that you would then put conceivably to housing and, or lifestyle. So the affordability conversation is an interesting one given how costs are coming down in other aspects of our life. Any thoughts?
- [57:59]
Matt Thoreau
I see food delivery, autonomous vehicles in my neighborhood all the time.
- [58:04]
Patrick Francie
Oh, you do? Oh, there you go. Yeah, yeah.
- [58:06]
Matt Thoreau
So it's here, it's, it's.
- [58:08]
Patrick Francie
You're. I don't remember. You're in Vegas though, right?
- [58:10]
Matt Thoreau
I'm in Vegas, yeah.
- [58:11]
Patrick Francie
Yeah. See that kind of stuff's happening. Going to happen really, really fast in Vegas for sure.
- [58:17]
Matt Thoreau
Cybertrucks I'm seeing now, I mean they're. You can't leave the house without seeing one. There's that. They don't have the distribution problem anymore, apparently.
- [58:24]
Patrick Francie
Apparently. I was on the list for cybertruck. I got my note last week or two weeks ago saying, put your order in, you're ready to go. So I don't want to. I no longer want a cybertruck. By the way. But that's just me right now.
- [58:40]
Matt Thoreau
It was so cool the first three weeks, right?
- [58:43]
Patrick Francie
Yeah. No, it's just like whatever.
- [58:46]
Matt Thoreau
Everybody had one.
- [58:47]
Patrick Francie
Yeah, everybody has one. I don't want one anymore. So when you look into the future for you and when you start to consider the business and the business development, are you looking where you're at in your life today? Are you looking at scaling your business, expanding it? What's your view given where you are in the world today? Just keep accumulating and building those assets. Keep coaching. Are you looking to scale your business? How is it that you know, what keeps you, what gets you out of bed in the morning?
- [59:15]
Matt Thoreau
You know, it's interesting because in 2019, I was on the verge of just retiring altogether. I accomplished everything I wanted to accomplish and then an opportunity was put before me. I don't know if you heard caught the wind up there, but I'm not a part of this industry or even remotely affiliated. But there was two major seminar companies that would go out and they would take like the reality stars from TV and then they build a seminar business around them and just use their face to market these seminars. And so there's a bunch of them out there. Well, the ftc, our Federal Trade Commission came in and shut them all down. And that was in October of 2019. And so what I recognized was, oh my gosh, look at all this rock star talent, These rockstar salespeople, rockstar marketers, rockstar presenters. We have a great product, a far superior product than they did. Imagine if we had that type of sales power behind what we do on the fulfillment side. And I just thought it was a match made in heaven. I was like, okay, you know what? I think this is a once in a life opportunity and I'm just going to push harder for five more years. And so we went all in. And the worst time in history to start a live event business.
- [60:32]
Patrick Francie
I hear you, brother.
- [60:33]
Matt Thoreau
The worst time in history. And the outlay to start that type of thing. We hired, I don't know, 18, 19 people. And I was like, okay, we're just going to go big. The point I'm trying to make is, you know, the pandemic came through and it was just an absolute disaster. I just lost my butt in the whole thing. And so now I'm not so prepared to retire. I got to put in a few more real years now because of it. But the way we're doing it now is, you know, Mercedes and I now share an assistant. We have one VA in The Philippines, who's been with us for like nine years. And then I have one person on the tech side that helps me like put websites and funnels and emails and all that kind of stuff together. And she lives remotely in Montana. But that's it. And so our gross revenue is way down, but our profitability, profitability and our is way up and our stress is way down. So I think people overestimate how glamorous and great a big business is going to be. Even, even if the pandemic, pandemic didn't come. Managing all of those people was the worst part of the whole thing. But you know, there's an expression, keep it small and keep it all. And so we're just going to do as much as we possibly can without having to hire someone else. We gotta hire someone else than then we've hit our limit.
- [61:56]
Patrick Francie
You know, I love that you shared that story. So thanks for sharing that story. I think that there's again, is that a lot of small business? So you know, I own a couple of other businesses, but within the real estate investment network, we were doing anywhere as many as 60 live events a year, 50 was pretty common, 45 was a no brainer. And there were events that had, you know, probably a minimum of 100 people and often as many as 7, 800 people, you know, 500 was a kind of a normal event for us. Point is it takes a lot to manage. That takes a lot of infrastructure. These are membership based. So it took a lot of infrastructure in terms of technology, a lot of costs associated with it, travel costs were escalating, venue costs, all the rest of it. The pandemic hits boom. And you know, I had to make a decision in the past year and a half which is, you know, we have people going, well, we want live events again. And when I tested that market, I went, no you don't. The squeaky wheels. Do you know the squeaky wheels? But you do a live event, I've done them for free, I've done them for small charges. And the uptake is really kind of mediocre. The people that come out are those that are maybe a little bit more bigger personalities, more extrovert. But even those individuals are going, nah, I'm not that interested. I'm not so interested that I want to pay for parking. You know, miss supper, stay away from the kids. I'd rather watch it. So it's an interesting dynamic. How much changed and within the event business is, I don't think many understand just how much costs have gone up in terms of venue costs and I don't know what it's like in the us but in Canada we've got two airlines really that matter. And even though I'm flying, even if I fly domestic, I have to, I used to be able to fly day off because it would be a three hour flight, let's say, or a two hour flight domestically. Now I have to go in the day before because I can't count on that flight to be on time to get me there the day up because of delays. And it's just, it really has changed the dynamic of any of this business. And then of course, there's lots of talking heads like you and I that show up on YouTube that, you know, ultimately water down the value. I mean, we don't, we bring huge value and doing it a long time, but there's a lot of 30 year olds out there that are experts on YouTube and come across as experts. So it's an interesting dynamic in the space of education and the challenges that we face. So I love the fact that you and Mercedes have done what you've done. You pivoted, you've done what you need to do to keep your business and your clients happy. So anyways, thanks for sharing that story because I totally relate. Totally relate. As we start to wind down this, I want to say, first off, appreciate the conversation and some of the insights that you've shared have been awesome. And as we wind down, I do a couple what I would refer to as rapid fire, which are never quite as rapid fire as I think they might be, but we'll just have a little bit of laugh with it. And are you ready for some rapid fire?
- [65:01]
Matt Thoreau
All right, let's go.
- [65:02]
Patrick Francie
I start out easy all the time, Matt. So is it. Are you Apple or Android?
- [65:07]
Matt Thoreau
Oh, Apple.
- [65:08]
Patrick Francie
Apple. Have you always been an Apple guy or you sometimes Android in the past? Yeah.
- [65:13]
Matt Thoreau
No, I've never been Android at all. I mean, I had a PC. I had a PC before Mac, but once I went Mac, I never went back.
- [65:20]
Patrick Francie
You never went back? Of course, that's a common phrase. Good for you. Your room, your desk or your car. What do you clean first?
- [65:30]
Matt Thoreau
My room.
- [65:32]
Patrick Francie
Your room. You like clean space?
- [65:33]
Matt Thoreau
Yeah.
- [65:34]
Patrick Francie
How's your desk? Is it a mess?
- [65:36]
Matt Thoreau
Yes, it's. It's had worse days, but it's okay right now.
- [65:40]
Patrick Francie
It's okay right now. Favorite swear word?
- [65:42]
Matt Thoreau
Oh, favorite swear word. Gotta be fuck.
- [65:46]
Patrick Francie
Yeah, I think that's the one that.
- [65:49]
Matt Thoreau
Comes out all the time.
- [65:50]
Patrick Francie
Yeah, I share with guests, you know, I have guests share with Me, I ask that question. They go, no, I don't really. Swear. I don't. I don't. No, I don't swear. What the hell? How can you express anything?
- [66:02]
Matt Thoreau
My 15 year old, he tells me to watch my mouth all the time.
- [66:07]
Patrick Francie
That's great. I love it. If God exists, what do you want to hear him or her say when you get to the gates, I told.
- [66:16]
Matt Thoreau
You I'd be here.
- [66:18]
Patrick Francie
You have a favorite tune or favorite band music or your music file?
- [66:26]
Matt Thoreau
Favorite. I think New Edition is my favorite.
- [66:29]
Patrick Francie
Oh, yeah, very good.
- [66:32]
Matt Thoreau
I just went and saw Boys II Men. They were here in Vegas the other night.
- [66:35]
Patrick Francie
Oh, that's cool.
- [66:36]
Matt Thoreau
And yeah, New Edition is like, I'll see them every time they come to town.
- [66:40]
Patrick Francie
Well, and being in Vegas, you'd probably get some great shows coming through there.
- [66:44]
Matt Thoreau
Yeah, I like them all. I love music, but that's my thing.
- [66:46]
Patrick Francie
Yeah. Favorite movie?
- [66:49]
Matt Thoreau
Oh, boy, it's three. It's always these three. It's Dumb and Dumber.
- [66:55]
Patrick Francie
Yeah.
- [66:56]
Matt Thoreau
It's Young Guns one and two. Those are both the same movie.
- [67:00]
Patrick Francie
Yeah.
- [67:00]
Matt Thoreau
And then Usual Suspects.
- [67:02]
Patrick Francie
Usual Suspects. Good. I like those. Those are all good.
- [67:05]
Matt Thoreau
Yeah.
- [67:06]
Patrick Francie
Good list. And finally, Matt, what are you grateful for?
- [67:11]
Matt Thoreau
My family for sure. Yeah. I got a good one. I got a great son and I'm blessed with a great wife. And it's the best part. It's the only part of my life I don't have to worry about.
- [67:22]
Patrick Francie
Beautiful. Love it. Like you, I am so grateful for family and I'm also grateful for having had the opportunity to have a couple conversations with you and to be able to have you join me on the show and share your insights. So thank you so much for joining me on the show today, Matt.
- [67:38]
Matt Thoreau
You bet. Thanks, Patrick.
- [67:41]
Patrick Francie
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening. If you found value in the podcast, please take the time to rate and review and share with others. Share with your friends as it is my goal to offer always improving to provide the highest value for you, the listener. If you have any comments, suggestions or questions you'd like answered, please email me@ceoraincanada.com that's ceor. I look forward to hearing from you. And until next time, Patrick.
- [68:14]
Matt Thoreau
Oh.