Inflation vs. Jobs, Pharma’s National Security Issue, and $160 Lipstick 9/11/26

Summary

The Exchange – CNBC

Episode: "Inflation vs. Jobs, Pharma’s National Security Issue, and $160 Lipstick"

Date: September 11, 2025
Hosts: Mike Santoli, Melissa Lee
Featured Guests: Steve Liesman, Rick Santelli, Michael Schumacher (Wells Fargo), Jared Holtz (Mizuho), Ryan Barney (Pantera Capital), Diana Olek

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Overview

This episode of The Exchange tackled the intersection of inflation data and the jobs market, the mounting national security concerns over pharma’s dependence on China, and the cultural curiosity of ultra-premium consumer goods like a $160 lipstick. The hosts and guests delivered real-time market analysis, deep-dived into legislative risks, and examined notable headlines in tech, crypto, and real estate.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Market Reactions to Inflation & Jobs Data

• Context: All-time highs across major indices. Recent CPI (Consumer Price Index) and jobless claims figures are fueling market bets on an imminent Fed rate cut.
• Bond Market: The 10-year Treasury yield briefly dipped below 4% for the first time since April.
• Stocks: Nasdaq on track for its 24th record close this year.

Roundtable Takeaways

• Steve Liesman: Points out that jobless claims data is distorted by seasonal adjustments, notably a 58,000 increase, overstating current labor market softness. While inflation isn't "satisfying" economists, key worries persist in sticky service price inflation.
  • "The market...is not really embracing much concern over the inflation numbers. It is embracing the concern over the jobs numbers." (02:05)
• Rick Santelli: Initially felt the jobless figures would create enough room for a Fed cut but later doubts 50 bps is realistic. Warns the market may be too optimistic and inflation-fighting is “on hold.”
  • "The stock market might like it because it's a little candy now, but in the end, does that mean their inflation fighting is on hold? I think that's a tough course." (03:15)
  • On the yield curve steepness and housing implications: “The curve is going to probably remain steep. The only reason anybody’s concerned about the 10 is because of housing and implications for the economy.” (06:08)
• Melissa Lee: Challenges panel on whether persistent, non-tariff inflation threatens the market's cut expectations, pointing to consumer pain points.
  • "If we do see inflation sticky...that's going to be a rude awakening for the stock market come October." (08:12)
• Consensus: Markets see the first rate cut as baked in, but future cuts hinge on inflation’s trajectory. Concerns linger about deeper, non-tariff-related inflation.

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2. Deep Dive: Underlying Inflation and Fed Policy

• Michael Schumacher (Wells Fargo):
  • September cut is “baked in,” but the gap between where the market prices “neutral” and the Fed’s definition needs to widen. Expects more aggressive Fed easing, especially in short-dated yields.
    • "The market's going to price more aggressive Fed activity, more easing, that's going to pull down yields somewhat..." (11:58)
  • Less concerned about deep-rooted inflation; believes current hot readings are primarily tariff-driven, but expects inflation behavior to remain “hot” for another six months.
    • “If there's a structural inflation problem, that's a huge issue...But we disagree...Our econ team...calling for inflation to run hot for a good six more months. So...maybe it's the beginning of the end, but it's not the end just yet.” (13:08)
  • Foresees increasing global competition for long-term debt due to growing government deficits, pushing the spread between 30- and 10-year yields wider.

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3. National Security & Pharma’s China Dilemma

• Headlines: Draft executive order from the Trump administration could restrict drugs from China due to national security—a major issue for US pharma, which now sources many experimental and in-demand drugs from China.
• Jared Holtz (Mizuho):
  • Doubts the US could immediately or meaningfully restrict Chinese pharmaceuticals, despite the rising share of US licensing deals involving China-based drugs (38% in the first half of 2025).
    • "To think that the US Government is going to...disallow companies from...creating business ventures with...entities over there seems very unlikely." (20:42)
  • Discusses how big pharma stocks (Pfizer, Merck, Bristol Myers) are pressured simultaneously by pricing and patent cliffs, with little optimism for near-term growth.
    • "...They're impacted...on pretty much both sides of the equation. So you've got drug pricing over the near term and then you've got patent exclusivity...over the longer term." (21:44)
  • On Novo’s restructuring to support R&D and adapt to “consumer market” realities for weight loss drugs: “I thought what was really interesting...Novo kind of admitted that the GLP1 class was more of a consumer market than anything else.” (23:03)

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4. Viral Markets & New Technology IPOs

• Opendoor: Meme trade resurgence, stock up 60% after a new CEO announcement—echoes of early-pandemic speculation.
  • "It’s kind of a back-from-death’s-door story...But it seems like people think things are going in the right direction...the willingness to believe is back and the adrenaline trade is back." (27:11, 28:18, Mike Santoli)
• Blockchain Lender Figure Technologies:
  • Priced IPO well above range; key investor Ryan Barney of Pantera Capital explains the real-world advantages of DeFi in unlocking home equity.
    • "Figures a blockchain business...The highest percentage of [Americans'] net worth is locked up in...home equity. Figure...allows folks to get liquidity...much faster, more efficiently, and sometimes cheaper than a bank would." (31:40, Ryan Barney)
    • On stablecoins as potentially safer than banks: "96% of stablecoins today in circulation are backed one to one by US dollars or treasuries. There's actually an argument...these stablecoins...might actually be safer than the traditional banking system today." (34:21)

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5. Housing Market Update

• Reporter Diana Olek:
  • Despite dropping mortgage rates (now ~6.27%), affordability remains the primary obstacle for buyers.
  • 72% of builders are buying down rates for customers, often by over 100 bps, creating margin pressure.
    • "What she [housing analyst Ivy Zellman] said was that 72% of the builders are now buying down mortgage, mortgage rates. And...half of those rate buy downs are more than 100 basis points each." (39:53)
  • Low-end sales weakest due to affordability, high supply, with expected national price dips next year but higher prices persisting at the luxury end.

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6. Rapid Fire: Tesla, Tech, Luxury, and M&A

• Apple: DA Davidson downgrades rating citing uninspired product event and lackluster AI vision.
  • "It feels as if, you know, you’re only just buying kind of the financial quality...Not a lot of leverage to the upside." (45:51, Mike Santoli)
• Chipotle: Expanding to Mexico, South Korea, and Singapore.
  • "It will be interesting to see how Chipotle’s burritos are received in Mexico." (46:32, Melissa Lee)
• LVMH $160 Lipstick: Reflects broader luxury trade struggles; host reactions marvel at the price point and what it says about premium retail strategies.
  • "Is $160 a lot for lipstick?" (47:14, Mike Santoli)
• Media M&A: Paramount/Skydance prepping a bold bid for Warner Bros Discovery—a possible mega-merger that would be closely scrutinized for antitrust, reflecting ongoing consolidation and regulatory debate in entertainment.
  • “From an antitrust perspective, this is the kind of merger that you can't really imagine getting approved just a couple of years ago..." (37:53, Courtney Reagan)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Steve Liesman on FOMC cuts: "If inflation don't cooperate, the rate cuts ain't going to happen. How's that for bad news?" (04:10)
• Rick Santelli on market sentiment: "The stock market might like it because it's a little candy now, but in the end, does that mean their inflation fighting is on hold? I think that it's a tough course..." (03:15)
• Melissa Lee on inflation risk: "If we do continue to see... the stuff that households pay for every day ... that's going to be a rude awakening for the stock market come October." (08:12)
• Michael Schumacher on global rates: "We think that means the gap between 30-year and 10-year rates globally...is going to increase pretty significantly over the next year or so." (15:18)
• Jared Holtz on pharma’s China conundrum: "[To] disallow companies from...business ventures with...entities over there seems very unlikely." (20:42)
• Ryan Barney on blockchain’s promise: "The highest percentage of [Americans'] net worth is locked up in their home equity. Figure...allows folks to get liquidity on that much faster..." (31:40)
• Mike Santoli on meme stocks: "The willingness to believe is back and the adrenaline trade is back... It's a bull market acting like a bull market." (28:18)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:07] – Market overview, inflation/jobless data discussion kicks off
• [02:05] – Liesman on jobs/inflation balance
• [03:15] – Santelli on Fed’s inflation fight and market pricing
• [11:58] – Michael Schumacher (Wells Fargo) on Fed cuts, yields, inflation at root
• [19:24] – Jared Holtz (Mizuho) on pharma policy, US-China tensions
• [27:11] – OpenDoor meme stock spike and market psychology
• [31:17] – Ryan Barney (Pantera) on Figure’s IPO, blockchain lending, stablecoins
• [39:53] – Diana Olek (Zelman Conference) on housing/mortgage rates, affordability
• [45:31] – Rapid Fire (Apple, Chipotle, LVMH, Paramount/Skydance)

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Tone & Language

Fast-paced, analytical, often witty and colloquial—especially during roundtable debates and rapid-fire segments.

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For Listeners

This episode is especially relevant for anyone tracking investment strategies linked to Fed moves, inflation, and new tech IPOs, or with interests in pharma, luxury retail, housing, or the revived meme stock/crypto sectors. The program offers insight into the day’s market drivers, policy debates, and consumer trends in a lively, sometimes skeptical, but always deeply informed style.

Transcript

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[Melissa Lee]

You're listening to the Exchange. Here's today's show.

[Mike Santoli]

Thank you Scott. Welcome to the Exchange. I'm Mike Santoli along with Melissa Lee. Stocks moving higher with the three major averages hitting all time highs. Investors betting that this morning's inflation data likely won't derail a Fed rate cut later this month. Next week in fact the Nasdaq on pace for its 24th record close of the year. Lots of attention on the bond market today with the 10 year Y falling below 4% for a bit for the first time since April. A 30 year bond auction getting underway right now.

[Melissa Lee]

It was 3.99%. Wow.

[Mike Santoli]

Somebody was there to sell it. There you go.

[Melissa Lee]

Down day. Meantime in the commodity sector, oil prices easing after a three day rally. Gold also in the red paring back from all time highs. We start off though with today's economic data, a move in both bonds and stocks. Here with us on set, Rick Santelli of Chicago but here on set in EC and Steve Liesman. The data that we got between CPI and claims, perfect, perfect for a Fed cut.

[Steve Liesman]

Yeah. The market does not really is not really embracing much concern over the inflation numbers. It is embracing the concern over the jobs numbers. I will point out as I did when the number came out that 263 on the jobless claims is exaggerated. I went back this week. Every year for the past four years you've had a jump up in the seasonal adjustment. The seasonal adjustment added 58,000 to jobless claims and there was a big bump in Texas at 15,000. So I am not disputing that. You see that upward slope there on the claims that is happening. It's just not happening in the amounts that are shown there by that spike this year. So it's not quite as bad as it seems. That's important. I am not reading a whole lot of commentary from economists who are very satisfied with the inflation numbers. They still see areas of concern, some movement services, 1%.

[Rick Santelli]

That's an area of concern.

[Steve Liesman]

Well, I'm trying to be kind, Rick. I'm trying. I'm trying to be.

[Rick Santelli]

No, you're not.

[Steve Liesman]

We don't need euphemistic about this, but they are willing to look through it and they think the Fed is willing to look through it. Rick is shaking his head and I don't think there's any reason for me to keep talking. If you want to hear what Rick, listen now.

[Rick Santelli]

And I'm sorry, I just can't help myself. You know, this the way after Thanksgiving at the dinner table, too. You know what? Here's the deal. When I first saw first blush, 263,000, thought that would be big enough for them to overlook the inflation numbers. But the more I think about it, okay, they do 50 with 3.1 and what, 2.8 on year over year, their target's 2%. Listen, the stock market might like it because it's a little candy now, but in the end, does that mean their inflation fighting is on hold? I think that it's a tough course, but the more I think about it, I just don't see how 50 is going to be possible. Although my initial blush was, well, maybe this will price it in.

[Steve Liesman]

Can I tell you the explanation without embracing it? I just want to say what he's going to say. He's going to say we are modestly restrictive. We have room to cut rates and remain restrictive and still putting downward pressure. Now, if in the back you would be so kind as to put up the outlook for Fed probabilities, here's where it gets interesting. I think from a market standpoint, everybody is completely and totally on board with the first cut. It's the second and third cut, folks. If inflation don't cooperate, the rate cuts ain't going to happen. How's that for bad?

[Melissa Lee]

It's going to be a rude awakening.

[Rick Santelli]

I agree with that 100%. I mean, I know nobody wants me to agree with you, but I do.

[Mike Santoli]

That would suggest. Rick, I mean, the bond market is looking through it as well, to a large degree.

[Steve Liesman]

That's what you.

[Rick Santelli]

Absolutely.

[Mike Santoli]

So it's not as if, you know, the bond market usually is kind of like the watchdog on the inflation front. It's not really, no.

[Rick Santelli]

But I am a little nervous to see the 210 spread. It was hovering around 50 basis points. A little shocking to me after it reached its kind of triple top at 64 basis points. But if I was in the pits, as I said, I'm never shy about letting my opinion out there. I think the number of closes that we're going to get under 4% may be a lot more modest than traders and people think I might be wrong on that. But if I was in the pits today, I think I would go for. We're not going to challenge the 4-4-low yield close of 3.099.

[Steve Liesman]

This is like Sally Field at the Oscars who said they like me. They really like me. I mean, Rick, you were saying before we came on camera, everybody else is terrible, right? UK I'm not buying French bonds today. No. What I'm going to do is I'm going to buy. Essentially what's interesting to me is duration in America. It's not just buying bonds. Now what's interesting about that is there is some belief that our treasury secretary and his folks are going to try to put downward pressure in the 10 year.

[Rick Santelli]

But Rick, how exactly are they going to.

[Steve Liesman]

Well, that's my question. Hold on, don't cut me off on this one because I'm going to throw it back to you. Okay, here's the thing. How is there a limit to the extent to which they can finance at the short end before there's a rebellion and they start to say, you know what, enough on the two year. Trying to cram two years down my throat. You got to start giving a little bit more volume in terms of financing the deficit on the long end.

[Rick Santelli]

All right, let's look at it very pragmatically. Good debt and deficits in my opinion, and the knob spread 30s/ tens, the fight tens -fives augur that the premiums in between these maturities are going to stay rich. So the curve is going to probably remain steep. So the only reason that anybody's concerned about the 10 is because of housing and implications for the economy. There's ways to help that. Without thinking they can manipulate the market, think about giving credits for finance. And the biggest thing they can go after is they should start to pressure the banks, not the Fed. Because the spread between a 10 year yield and where mortgages are, are too darn wide.

[Steve Liesman]

I go to bed every night asking myself that question.

[Rick Santelli]

Come on, If President Trump $250 billion let people buy houses, why should they make so much on the spread?

[Steve Liesman]

Why is that? Why is there not. Is it not a complete.

[Rick Santelli]

I don't have a good answer. I really don't. But I do think, come on, we.

[Steve Liesman]

Thought you were coming to New York with all the answers. That was the expectation.

[Rick Santelli]

I do think Covid changed things and I think the reward in the mortgage game for a while was stacked against them. They always had to give away the free option when you refinance. So I think they were a bit reticent. To give away what? Okay. Just like when you go to a restaurant, they put a special management fee for Covid. My restaurants haven't taken it off. I think that's the same mentality going on.

[Steve Liesman]

Let me ask you this. If I book a mortgage today and the Fed cuts rates and mortgages come down, I'm holding the book, I win. Right.

[Rick Santelli]

And if I come down, if you have a 25 basis point cut, how much are you going to see? See, to me, they made a big deal going to what, six and three eighths to me, until we're under 6%. So we're five. And yes, these are too small to really make the herd of people that want to move or let go of their low mortgages be satisfied.

[Steve Liesman]

I think this is a big deal that we're kind of on board with the idea that maybe the Fed oughtn't be quite so dovish years.

[Mike Santoli]

I mean, if I can handle the way the stock market is seizing on all this, it's basically, look, the labor market is soft enough looking that it gives you the COVID to be more dovish right now.

[Melissa Lee]

Sure.

[Mike Santoli]

And that may not really be reflecting the underlying pace of the economy as you're seeing a little upturn in some short term.

[Melissa Lee]

But. But the point in terms of when we put up the probabilities again, if we do see inflation sticky, if we do continue to see rises or high prices in the stuff that households pay for every day, which is the problem in the CPI report, then that 92nd 7, 92%, that's going to be a rude awakening for the stock market come October, and that's not too far away, and that lines up the seasonality.

[Steve Liesman]

How the Fed is looking at this first thing is, I think I can say at this point, not 100%. Sure. The concern of the Fed, I had this concern as well, was that was going to happen in tariff was going to spill over to other areas. That does not appear to be the case. We do have tariff inflation. There are price hikes being. Because you can see it in the.

[Mike Santoli]

How do you know it's from tariffs?

[Steve Liesman]

All right, maybe. Maybe it's.

[Rick Santelli]

Listen, I'm just being a. But I watch data and all the price.

[Steve Liesman]

But all right, let's concede that point. The point I'm trying to make a point that it's not in other areas necessarily. That's the main point I'm trying to make. That was a concern to the Fed. Now, do people say the Fed was wrong not to cut already? But you could ask the question was the Fed wrong to wait until the risk had gone away? And I think it's now at a point where it feels like that risk is now over or the incredible possibility of it. And now I can take a bit of a move towards a quarter point cut as long as it remains that way.

[Melissa Lee]

Are you saying that the inflation or the residual inflation that we're seeing is not tariff related and so therefore there is a fight, an inflation fight that still has that. That a risk that that risk has passed, but there is still the embedded inflation.

[Rick Santelli]

Exactly what I' yeah, that's a worse problem.

[Steve Liesman]

That's a worse.

[Rick Santelli]

Yeah, absolutely. It's a worse problem.

[Courtney Reagan]

Trying to.

[Rick Santelli]

I just want to. Better. I just want to know who the antagonist.

[Steve Liesman]

Melissa. Yeah, yeah, it's worse if it's not tariff related.

[Melissa Lee]

Yes, absolutely.

[Steve Liesman]

So you think it's bad?

[Rick Santelli]

Yeah, I think that.

[Steve Liesman]

So should they be hiking?

[Rick Santelli]

No, but I think that this really does call into question the December meeting for sure.

[Melissa Lee]

What would the. What would the appetite do you think by the Fed to cut and then hike?

[Rick Santelli]

They never do.

[Steve Liesman]

They don't like doing that. But. But what they do have is they have an extra gear, right. They have this neutral gear, which is if the market expects cuts and they don't deliver them, it's a de facto tightening. But another question for you. We got to go here. Are you a buyer of the 10 year at 4%?

[Rick Santelli]

No, no, I'm a seller. Seller, absolute seller. And if I'm wrong, Listen, I'm a technician.

[Steve Liesman]

But is your place on the curve?

[Rick Santelli]

We close the week right under 395. I'll switch lanes.

[Steve Liesman]

Is there a place on the curve you would like to put your cot and take a nap in?

[Rick Santelli]

Yeah, I think curve steepening.

[Steve Liesman]

See, you'd buy a butterfly. You buy.

[Rick Santelli]

Yeah, yeah. Because nobody on Wall street, no one in the big boys are really taking significant soul sector positions. If they think that 10 year rates are going to be stubborn, they're going to be buying twos or buying threes. They're doing everything in packages.

[Steve Liesman]

And corporates are rich too, right here.

[Rick Santelli]

Well, you know what? When you think the Fed's going to cut, they're all running for the last decent corporate yield out of Dodge. Absolutely. Look at what the high yield spreads are.

[Steve Liesman]

We don't talk enough about munis, which are the only place to.

[Melissa Lee]

That's a whole other show. We've exceeded our, we exceeded our time limit here. Exactly. Thank you gentlemen though.

[Rick Santelli]

Thank you.

[Steve Liesman]

At least she said gentlemen, that was good.

[Melissa Lee]

You know, trying to make it feel better. Let's stay on the market here. Bring in our first guest who says CPI numbers are worrisome but not scary, that inflation continues to rise but it's not scorching hot. Joining us now as Wells Fargo securities head of Macro Strategy, Michael Schumacher. Michael, great to see you. Does today's data, whether it be claims or cpi, change your expectations at all?

[Michael Schumacher]

Now look, September baked in, I think that's pretty clear to me. The much more interesting thing is what's the long term prognosis for the Fed? And we do think the market's going to look at it and say, hey, we're pricing to 85 or something like that for the end of this cycle. The Fed tells us neutral is about three. That's way too narrow a gap. It needs to get bigger. So what it really means, we think is the market's going to price. More aggressive Fed activity, more easing, that's going to pull down yields somewhat, not a ton, but two year, three year yields, those sorts of things probably fall 20 basis points over the next month, 10 year, a little bit. But I do think the market's going to price and anticipate more cuts by the Fed.

[Melissa Lee]

We're having a debate here on the desk between Steve Liesman and Rick Santelli about inflation and the inflation we continue to see. We saw today in the CPI number and where it comes from Rick making the case that maybe it's not from tariffs, maybe there is an underlying inflation issue. And I'm wondering if, if you see that argument and if so, all those Fed cuts that are being baked in for the rest of the year, they could be in jeopardy and that could be really a huge problem for markets to go higher.

[Michael Schumacher]

Yeah, I think it's more tariff based. So if there's a structural inflation problem, that's a huge issue. I grant you that. You made that Excellent point, Melissa. So I take the other side from Rick here, not as concerned about that, but we disagree frankly that the, the tariff notice, if you will, as far as inflation goes is over. Our econ team and Sarah House does a great job. They're calling for inflation to run hot for a good six more months. So it's not the end, maybe it's the beginning of the end, but it's not the end just yet.

[Mike Santoli]

And Michael, in terms of how the labor market is shaping up and how that does or doesn't reflect what you think is, you know, overall GDP pace, I think it's an interesting back and forth. You know, there was a few months ago when Chair Powell was pointing to 4.1, 4.2% unemployment and saying that means we can wait. And the market seemed to be saying, oh no, that's going to be a head fake because we're seeing softening and we're seeing tariff friction. And now you see the labor market data softening up and it's not really being matched up with some of the other indicators. So what are we to believe?

[Michael Schumacher]

Yeah, it's the labor market's been interesting when you think about the path over the last year, year and a half. If you look at some of the, call it secondary indicators, a lot of people like to talk about job openings to unemployed or the quits rate. They weakened a ton from late 22 to mid 24 and sort of sat there for a while. The layoffs rate though has been really steady. It went up just a little bit in the last month. If that goes up a little bit more, I think people are going to say, well, it's not just these things like jolts. It's not simply the quits rate, it's layoffs, it's non farm payrolls, there's more to it. So the story that the labor market's getting weak, it's gathering momentum and I think that does have the Fed leaders pretty concerned. That's probably why we got two dissents at the last meeting.

[Melissa Lee]

You know, we're on a day here, Michael, where we are testing 4% on the 10 year yield. We reached it earlier today. And so I'm wondering, you know, it's interesting because you're saying that you think there's going to be a deluge of longer term issuance 30 years globally. What are your thoughts on where the 10 year yield could be versus 30s?

[Michael Schumacher]

Yeah, we think that gap is going to increase, Melissa. And it's really interesting when you think about this idea of a lot of Supply for many countries, it's already happening in the US Case we know the story, big budget deficit that's not going away anytime soon. Think about countries overseas though. Germany increasing defense expenditures, Japan doing the same. France having a lot of budget issues, also increasing defense expenditures. And Canada and the uk It's a very long list. A lot of countries doing the same thing at about the same time. When they go to the bond market, they're going to fund it and I think probably skew some of that funding long. They're not going to fund with bills and that sort of thing in my view. So that means a lot of supply hitting the market over the next couple of years. At the same time, a lot of the structural buyers, like pension funds and life insurers, we think they're going to step back a bit. So it's a bad mismatch. We think that means the gap between 30 year and 10 year rates globally, not just in the US but overseas as well, is going to increase pretty significantly over the next year or so.

[Mike Santoli]

All right. Yeah, I guess everything continues to point to, to a steeper curve here and there. Michael, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Coming up, blockchain lender Figure is open for trading. It priced its IPO above the range at $25 a share. Stock opened at 36. It is now trading around 31. It looks like 32 at the moment, giving it a valuation of more than $6 billion. We'll speak with a partner at crypto hedge fund Pantera Capital, who's also a lead investor and a board member at Figure.

[Melissa Lee]

But first, pharma companies and billionaire investors are going head to head in D.C. over new policies. And China is at the center of all of it. We'll tell you what it means for investors in the sector next. The exchange is back right after this.

[Rick Santelli]

This is the exchange on cnbc.

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[Melissa Lee]

ETFs have the flexibility to shift and transform as markets do the same. So instead of just riding an index, they can seek to outperform by adapting to market conditions and pursuing new opportunities as they emerge. And while you get the potential outperformance of an actively managed fund, you can still buy and sell it on your terms. Just like any other etf. Markets can change in real time. Make sure your ETF can too. Learn [e-mail] ActiveETFs before investing in any exchange traded fund, you should consider its investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. Contact Fidelity for a prospectus, an offering circular, or if available, a summary prospectus containing this information. Read it carefully. While active ETFs offer the potential to outperform an index, these products may more significantly trail an index as compared with passive ETFs. ETFs are subject to market fluctuation and the risks of their underlying investments. ETFs are subject to management fees and other expenses. Fidelity Brokerage Services LLC Member NYSE SIPC welcome back. We're keeping an eye on a story that could have a big impact on Big Pharma. The New York Times reporting that the Trump administration has drafted an executive order that would put severe restrictions on drugs from China in the name of national security. This comes as US Pharma companies have been increasingly reliant on China, buying rights to experimental drugs created there for everything from cancer to obesity and heart disease. For more on all of this, let's bring in Jared Holtz, the healthcare equity strategist at Mizuho. Jared, great to see you.

[Jared Holtz]

Thanks so much Melissa. Appreciate it.

[Melissa Lee]

This has been a major source of deals so far this year. In the first half, 30 38% of all licensing deals involve drugs from China was seen as a way for Big Pharma to plug their holes that were created by patent cliffs. What happens if this if this EO comes to fruition?

[Jared Holtz]

So difficult to say. I mean, yes to your point, China's become such a larger piece of of the puzzle as far as biotech and pharma is concerned. With all of the patent issues and drug pricing, I would highly doubt that this executive order is going to be able to result or will result in an immediate restriction. But it's definitely something to keep an eye out on. I mean, the amount of drug development going over there is fascinating and obviously Pharm has taken notice and has done a boatload of deals in the space.

[Melissa Lee]

There's. But there's some who are in favor obviously of this executive order or an action like this. And one argument is that this could help the US biotech sector, which is de facto competing with the Chinese biotech sector. Dollars go there, they don't go into upsurps here in our own country. Do you see that happening at all? That there is this sort of implicit, you know, dollars going to China, not going here?

[Jared Holtz]

I would highly doubt it. I understand the angst. You know, the sector has been so difficult even before China became more of an issue from a competitive standpoint. But it's a free economy. Obviously, biotech and pharma drug development is global. It's not just the US So I get it, I understand it. But to think that the US Government is going to be able to either cut China off or disallow companies from, you know, creating business ventures with, you know, assets or entities over there seems very unlikely.

[Mike Santoli]

John, I wonder how you think about, or how your clients think about just the general investment proposition from big old Pharma. I mean, you look at Pfizer, Mark, Bristol Merck, Bristol Myers, they're trading at seven to nine times earnings at these really fat dividend yields, basically priced for zero or negative growth down the road. And it seems like they're getting hemmed in. Right. We're cutting back on basic research funding and all the rest of it. So what's the, I guess, is there a bull case you're hearing out there?

[Jared Holtz]

I think you kind of nailed it. I mean, they're, they're impacted in a negative way on pretty much both sides of the equation. So you've got drug pricing over the near term and then you've got patent exclusivity and loss of those patents over the, over the longer term. And you're basically just trying to account for the middle the next few years. You're running these businesses over a 12, maybe 24 month standpoint with respect to how I think investors look at it. And you know, Pfizer, Merck, Bristol Myers, you know, those that you mentioned are all struggling. I think most of the companies in this arena are. It's pretty much how do you bridge the gap between now and when you start to see all the degradation on the patent side and the pricing side come into the fray. And so there's just very, very little conviction that anyone can have as to how strategically that's going to work out.

[Melissa Lee]

I did want to ask you about Novo Jared. Yesterday they announced their own sort of weight loss program. If you will cutting, cutting their workforce, trying to allocate that money and that, that huge build that they did in, in response to the demand for, for its ozempic etc. Trying to reallocate that to R and D. Will that work? Is sentiment so low on this name that this could be a, you know, a great play?

[Jared Holtz]

It's so washed out, obviously. You know, I think they're doing what a lot of other companies have been doing or have announced. Pfizer has announced a big restructuring. Merck has commented and others have as well. And so I think when your back is against the wall a little bit and you need to kind of regroup, restructuring, cost cutting is really the only thing. It kind of goes back to Mike's question as well as to how does pharma kind of, you know, navigate this environment and these restructurings are going to prove to be, I think, much more common. But I thought what was really interesting yesterday, Melissa, on this topic was that Novo kind of admitted that the GLP1 class was more of a consumer market than anything else. I thought that was my biggest takeaway and just how difficult it's going to be to kind of model that out.

[Melissa Lee]

Yeah. Jared, great to speak with you. Thank you.

[Jared Holtz]

Thank you.

[Melissa Lee]

Jared Hollis Mizuho, I think you bring up a really good point in terms of the bull case and on big cap pharma. I mean what else do you want? I mean valuation, the dividend yields and yet the sentiment is so terrible and it's terribly under.

[Mike Santoli]

It's just tough to draw the roadmap for how it improves much incrementally from here just knowing, you know, it's really just lack of transparency and, and obviously maybe some of these companies have been over earning, you know, like Pfizer of course with the vaccines and things like that.

[Melissa Lee]

Exactly. All right, well let's stick with the health care here. Check out shares of UnitedHealth, up 13% since Monday. JP Morgan says it's attracting the largest retail inflows overall this week after announcing nearly 80% of its Medicare Advantage membership will be enrolled in four star plans. Unh. On pays for a sixth straight week of gains, up 50% in that time for its best streak since 2019. It's up 30% since Berkshire Hathaway revealed a new stake in the company. That was quite a purchase.

[Mike Santoli]

Yes. I mean of course you never know exactly when they got what price but I mean the setup was, was ripe for something like this really. Spring loaded on August 1st. It was more oversold. The stock was, you know, on a weekly basis or whatever than it has been since 08, since the global financial crisis. And I think once you got that little bit of reassurance that, you know, the Medicare business was going to actually be in okay shape in the coming year, you know, the mean reversion trade, I think is a big part of it. And, and honestly, a lot of laggards have been picked up. And I think in general with health insurance, the pendulum does swing. You know, they mispriced the business for a while and in theory, it should get no worse from here.

[Melissa Lee]

I mean, the stars number 78%. That's basically bonus money that drops straight to ETS. So that's how, how it changes so quickly.

[Mike Santoli]

Yeah, it is. All right, coming up, the return of the meme trade. Open door spiking 60% to its highest level in more than three years. Tell you what's driving the action and what it means for some other meme stocks next.

[Steve Liesman]

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Edu.

[Melissa Lee]

Welcome back to the Exchange. Opendoor soaring 60% after the company named a new CEO. Shares hitting their highest level in three and a half years. Of course, this has been sort of, there's an activist involved here and you know, big deal.

[Mike Santoli]

1100% in two months was the price change. Yeah. Co founder coming back on the board. I mean, it's kind of a back from death's door type of story. This is a company that, you know, has historically been a buyer and seller of homes. Single family homes, now fundamentals, who the heck knows? Book values down below $1, revenues down, never been profitable. But it seems like people think things are going in the right direction. What I find interesting, market wide is there has been this revival of the kind of class of 2020 and 2021 in those go go trades. Take a look at a handful of them. So this is a five year chart. Now Carvana has actually been the one that got escape velocity off of that, those depths. The other ones have just been in these, I mean you can call it a base. I guess that's Roku, it's Ark Invest. So these, some of these stocks are being carried along with I guess this new wave of enthusiasm we're getting for basically kind of long shot digital businesses of various types.

[Melissa Lee]

What does this say about the markets, do you think, in terms of just betting on sort of these long shots? And it's not just this is, it's also the entire crypto trade. This hope that this is a new class of technology of companies.

[Mike Santoli]

It tells you that look, the willingness to believe is back and the adrenaline trade is back. I don't know that that means it's about to end. It doesn't mean that it's, it's boiling over. But yes, Crypto Sparks IPOs, all the rest of it. It's a bull market. Acting like a bull market, I'll say.

[Melissa Lee]

Is one thing I loved in August when Anthony Pompliano, the crypto influencer bought a second open. And I thought that, wow, it's like worlds colliding here. All we need is for them to offer some sort of crypto aspect, those.

[Mike Santoli]

Worlds colliding and you know, stock market bull becoming bitcoin mining chairman. You know, we've seen it all.

[Melissa Lee]

Now let's get to Courtney Reagan for a CNBC news update. Court, I'm Melissa.

[Courtney Reagan]

The FBI is turning to the public for help in identifying the gunman in the Charlie Kirk assassination. In a post on X, the FBI said it's offering $100,000 to anyone who has information that would lead to the ID and arrest of the person or people responsible. Earlier today, the agency released two photos of an individual it believes is a person of interest. A federal judge sentenced Nadine Menendez to four and a half years in prison for her role in the corruption scheme involving her husband, former New Jersey Senator Bob Menendez.

[Melissa Lee]

He was convicted last year.

[Courtney Reagan]

The judge delayed her surrender until July 2026 so she can undergo additional treatment for cancer. And a former executive with the Alphabet owned health tech firm Verily alleges the company covered up HIPAA violations that affected more than 25,000 of its patients. In a lawsuit, the executive, Brian Sloan, claims Verily wrongfully fired him after he discovered the breaches and reported them to senior management.

[Melissa Lee]

In a statement to cnbc, verily said the allegations are, quote, completely without merit. Melissa, back to you, Courtney. Thanks. Courtney Reagan. Coming up, figure open for trading $36 a share after pricing above the range of 25. Now trading up by just about 36% after the break this week with one of Figures lead investors and board members. He's also a partner at the crypto hedge fund Pantera. That's next.

[Mike Santoli]

Welcome back. The IPO market continues to heat up this week. Yesterday, Goldman Sachs CEO David Solomon said this has been the busiest week for IPOs at his firm since July of 2021. And today's stablecoin issuer blockchain company Figure Technologies making its debut. It is now up some 34% from the issue price. This is what the executive chairman and founder had to say this morning on Squawk Box.

[Steve Liesman]

The way we look at it is.

[Mike Santoli]

Just like there's a mag 7 of web 2.0, you're going to have something like that for web 3.0. The technology is so big, it's so.

[Michael Schumacher]

Pervasive and it's really going to change the world. And we think we're one of those companies.

[Steve Liesman]

We started with home equity line of.

[Mike Santoli]

Credit with actual loans on blockchain.

[Michael Schumacher]

So we started originating loans on chain in 2018. We've done over $16 billion of origination. We've done over $55 billion of on chain transactions.

[Mike Santoli]

Joining us now is Ryan Barney, partner at Pantera Capital, also a lead investor and board observer at Figure. Ryan, good to have you on.

[Ryan Barney]

Thanks for having me. Michael.

[Mike Santoli]

Congrats on the, on the, on the deal.

[Ryan Barney]

Thank you.

[Mike Santoli]

Getting out there, I feel like, you know, maybe answer initially because, you know, the criticism sometimes of these businesses is it's kind of like a solution in search of a problem. I mean, we heard about the HELOC lending, but what really is this company targeted at and how does it fit into the overall kind of push in this direction that you're backing?

[Ryan Barney]

Great question. Well, look, figures a blockchain business. And we've always said at Pantera Capital, the biggest use cases of blockchain are going to be those that impact the real economy. And that's what figures doing. Most Americans, the highest percentage of their net worth is locked up in their in their home equity. And figure through their blockchain technology allows folks to get liquidity on that much faster, more efficiently and sometimes cheaper than a bank would. They bring the process down from something like 30 days to five days to get access. And in doing so they're bringing traditional originators and consumers like you and I who want equity on their homes much faster. So it's really tangible.

[Mike Santoli]

What processes are they eliminating or working around?

[Ryan Barney]

Good question. Well look, the traditional financial and capital markets, there's so many intermediaries, right? And blockchain has this really amazing. Blockchain has this really amazing thing where there's less intermediaries. It's just computers talking to each other, tutors. So there's a lot more trust in the system. And so basically by bringing this all on the blockchain and verticalizing the stack, figure's able to take less steps in the process to originate a loan and fund a loan on the blockchain.

[Melissa Lee]

So there's an efficiency there which is valuable. And so who pockets that value? I mean how, how do you actually make money if you, if you're sort of replacing that, that middleman party connecting borrowers and lenders.

[Ryan Barney]

Yeah, well look, figure has the proof is in the pudding figures done over $17 billion, these transactions online. And so clearly both originators and customers are super excited about this. And so there's efficiency there in time and so you're able to charge for that as well.

[Mike Santoli]

And in terms of the overall sort of stablecoin ecosystem, all these things that are kind of growing up in parallel to the traditional financial system, I wonder again just to what degree it's going to be able to assume the same roles. Right. People are concerned that stablecoins really don't necessarily reflect all the properties of real money and, and all the rest of it. And, and the other piece of it I think is, is these are small frictional costs in general throughout the economy. Not necessarily, you know, people making massive amounts on them.

[Ryan Barney]

Yeah, well, stablecoins have really had their moment this summer, right. They brought so many eyeballs to the crypto space and really, really prove out the real world economy use cases for these things. And so if we think about a bank which takes deposits and leverages those deposits, actually 96% of stablecoins today in circulation are backed one to one by the US dollars or treasuries. And so there's actually an argument to, to be made that these stablecoins or narrow banks might actually be safer than traditional banking system today. So on a 10 year horizon, it's pretty safe to say that we think that stablecoins take a significant portion of the deposit base out of the bank.

[Melissa Lee]

Just quickly, Ryan Barney was saying that there is going to be an equivalent of a MAG7 in the crypto world. And so from you've got a big portfolio at Pantera and so I'm curious, what is the company, the couple of companies that will definitely be in that, you know, Mag 7:2.0 for the, for the crypto economy.

[Ryan Barney]

Yes. So Mike certainly coined kind of like the mag7 for crypto and blockchain. And I think that's probably part of the reason we've seen a rush for businesses to go public right now. Circle had an amazing IPO figures, having an amazing day and I think look, what we're going after is all of capital markets and that the technology is so dismediating better than what existed before that. We're going to see things in lending, home equity like we're seeing asset tokenization, equities, stablecoins, so many of those things. So we're focused specifically right now on many of those things. Stablecoins is certainly a hot topic.

[Mike Santoli]

I keep going back to the end game if you really succeed in everything. And I look at things like bank of New York Mellon and State street, right? These massive custodians and they, they enable the entire capital markets financial system. They have $100 trillion in custody between the two of them and they trade at like 11 and 12 times earnings. And they're kind of like the most boring business business in the world. I mean, is that what you're after?

[Ryan Barney]

I don't think so, no. I think, you know, Melissa mentioned it earlier, it's about right now bringing efficiencies to the existing capital market ecosystem. But really what we're after and what's so exciting is crypto is so global, it's borderless. And so think about the financial services that is not yet around the world. Crypto brings that to these people. I mean 10% of all remittances between the US and Mexico right now are being facilitated by businesses in the crypto space using stablecoins and other crypto because it's so much faster than the intermediaries. And so in America it's easy to think about kind of our financial system works pretty well but if we go beyond that, it's like nothing's there.

[Melissa Lee]

Ryan, great to speak with you. Thank you.

[Ryan Barney]

I really appreciate it. Thanks Mike. Thanks Melissa.

[Melissa Lee]

Ryan Barney of Pantera. We do have a news alert on Warner Brothers Discovery. Julia Warson's got the story. Julia.

[Courtney Reagan]

Warner Brothers Discovery and Paramount Skydance. The Wall Street Journal is reporting reporting that Paramount Skydance is preparing an Ellison backed bid for Warner Brothers Discovery. This news sending shares of Warner Brothers Discovery up dramatically now up over 20%. This bid would reportedly be for the entire company, including both its cable networks and movie studio. These this as the company prepares to split in two. Just yesterday David Zaslav saying that the company is well on its way to do that split. And there's been a lot of speculation that Paramount Skydance would be interested in buying half of the company and buying the streaming and studios part. But this report says that they would be interested in buying the entirety of the company, presumably pre split. Just want to point out here we reached out to paradise Paramount Skydance, we got a no comment. We've also reached out to Warner Brothers Discovery and we will be following up with more. Paramount Skydance shares up about 6% on this news. And this all comes amid a lot of speculation about what kind of assets Paramount Skydance backed by Elson might be interested in as they put forward forward with this concept of a tech driven company that's really aiming to be a leader in streaming, among other things.

[Mike Santoli]

I mean Julia, obviously anything like this would be a bet that they could get approval for things like putting two of the old studios together and all the overlap with the cable networks and the rest on an antitrust basis.

[Courtney Reagan]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. From an antitrust perspective, this is the kind of merger that you can't really imagine getting approved just a couple of years ago, both from the question of what the administration would be open to, but also you can imagine what kind of arguments comments they would make about why given the rise of streaming, they should be able to merge these massive assets. But yes, you have Warner Brothers, which is one of the biggest studio merging with Paramount, another leading studio, that would be a big bet from a regulatory perspective that they would get that approved. But given the Ellison's close tie, you know, Larry Ellison's close ties to the Trump administration, maybe he had some insight into the opportunity there to get that kind of massive deal approved. But again, no comment from the companies. And and we'll be digging in and let you know as we hear more. But this is an area of a lot of speculation in terms of the M and A landscape and media.

[Melissa Lee]

Julia, thank you, Julia Borson. Of course, this comes after Larry Ellison made a windfall and a huge power pop in Oregon. Not that the billionaire needs the extra money to do this sort of deal, but the timing of it is very.

[Mike Santoli]

The family interesting, newly flush even more than before. And the market seems to be willing to bet that there could be something besides just random reports here as the stocks move coming up all but three components in the iShares Home Construction ETF higher today with the 10 year treasury yield under pressure. We'll get the latest read on mortgage rates.

[Melissa Lee]

Come back to the exchange. Mortgage rates now under 6.3% nearing the 52 week low, 6.1% after the 10 year yield fell below 4% for the first time in five months. This comes less than a week before the next Fed decision. Joining us now from the Zelman Housing Conference in Boston, the CNBC real estate senior real estate reporter Diana Olek. Diana, great to see you. What do you what do you make of this drop and what could 25 or 50 basis points in cuts next week do to the mortgage rate?

[Diana Olek]

Well, Melissa, despite the two economic indicators we saw this morning, we only saw mortgage rates dropped 2 basis points. So we're now at 6.27%. But inside the room across from me you have hundreds of home builders, mortgage lenders, investors, land developers and Ivy Zellman, one of the great analysts putting up 87 slides literally on the state of the housing market. And what she pointed to was really that affordability as the main headwind and how that translates into mortgage rates, buy downs. What she said was that 72% of the builders are now buying down mortgage, mortgage rates. And she said that one half of those rate buy downs are more than 100 basis points each. And that is going to continue to put pressure on builder margins. So the question is how much longer can they do that? Because even though rates are considerably lower than they were just six months ago, you don't know that next week if the Fed lowers rates, are mortgage rates going to pop back up a little again because they've already been priced in so early.

[Melissa Lee]

Melissa, so they're buying down 100 basis points. Does that mean that the mortgage that somebody is getting if they're buying one of these new builds is around 5%?

[Diana Olek]

Yes, it is. And that's how the builders are getting their buyers in the door. And you know, it's a lot of talk around here also is how much the builders are prepared if rates do come down even more. Do they have the supply? Now we look at the supply of both new and existing homes and it's very high right now because a lot of the builders, namely Dr. Horton and Lennar, have been doing a ton of ton of spec building that is building without a buyer as opposed to just buying on demand from specific buyers. Some builders think that's the right strategy, some don't. I spoke to Ryan Marshall here, he's the CEO Of Pulte, he says that is not what he thinks is the best strategy because you could get holding the bag on a lot of these homes if people still can't afford them. So the question is, do builders keep putting holes in the ground when they don't have the buyers? Is that the right strategy? Or is it better to be a little more perhaps conservative on the construction?

[Mike Santoli]

So that's new home supply. And at the same time, you have really rising secondary supply out there. And, you know, it's really a funny moment in the housing market in a sense, because you have that supply issue and then affordability is the real problem. So does that mean that price resolves this at some point?

[Diana Olek]

Not yet. I mean, Ivy does predict that prices will go negative national very briefly next year and then rise again in 2027. Whether that happens. She said she's still not even sure about that because again, it's these pressures on who's in the market. If you look at supply specifically, the supply is actually the, the on the low end, you have sales being the lowest and supply the highest, which means that the low end buyer cannot get in even to that low end home. And so that supply is really high on the luxury side, you see more buyers, but you see far fewer homes available for sale, which again pushes those prices higher. And if you really have the higher end buyer, the only action in the market because the lower end is still renting, then you're going to see prices continue to go up because that's going to be how the median shows.

[Melissa Lee]

Diana. Thank you, Diana Olek. Sure. And do not miss Diana's interview with housing analyst Ivy Zellman. That is tonight on Fast Money.

[Mike Santoli]

Coming up, Open Air's rising fundraising tide lifting all boats. But the seas may be getting rougher, not just at the startup, but across the entire air supply chain. That's next. The exchange will be right back.

[Melissa Lee]

Shares of Oracle pulling back today after soaring 35% yesterday on its massive backlog numbers. Now we're getting new details about where most of that demand is coming from. Open Air. Mackenzie Segalis got more on the $300 billion deal in today's tech check match.

[Courtney Reagan]

Hey, Mel. So Sam Altman is now bankrolling a new class of trillion dollar giants. Venture investors out here in Silicon Valley characterize Broadcom and Oracle as sort of the sleeper cells of this boom. Legacy names suddenly reborn as AI power players. Broadcom now sports a $1.7 trillion valuation. And even with the sell off today, Oracle's market cap is still just shy of $900 billion. One VC telling me that Oracle had been the uncared for child on the side. But big concessions and going to Sam Altman on bent knee likely helped it land OpenAI's $300 billion compute contract. It's also a recognition that after years on the sidelines, Oracle now sits at the infrastructure core of this multi trillion dollar buildout. But the street says that over 90% of Oracle's future contracts coming from OpenAI is a risk for both sides and significantly reduces their enthusiasm for the stock. VCs here also wondering how OpenAI, which is still a low to negative margin startup, services a tab that dwarfs its current $10 billion in revenue. And then there's the question of how Oracle, which is still the Underdog in the AI Cloud race, pays for its newly updated $35 billion CapEx commitment. There's an expectation here that they'll likely take on debt to fund the AI chips they need to fulfill the contract. That's not uncommon, though. Core, we've, Metta and XI have all taken on billions of dollars in debt to build out this infrastructure.

[Melissa Lee]

Guys.

[Mike Santoli]

All right, Mac, thank you. Big switch from the days when it started and it was all about the cloud platforms and their free cash flow being able to just sort of pay the cost out of pocket. All right, coming up, Chipotle's Burrito Blitz, a $160 lipstick, and Apple's uncertain AI future. All that more coming up. Today's Rapid Fire and checking on shares of Warner Brothers Discovery Stock now up 27% on a report that David Ellison's Skydance is preparing a cash bid. The Exchange will be right back.

[Melissa Lee]

Let's catch you up on a few more stories that are on our radar today. Time for Rapid Fire. First up, DA Davidson downgrading Apple to a neutral, writing its product announcements were uninspiring and Apple will not be leveraging AI anytime soon. Apple's up about a percent today, but down 4% this week. I mean, the sentiment on Apple, it's terrible on Wall Street. I mean, I think it's like 31% or holds.

[Mike Santoli]

I was going to say. It feels like this downgrade was sort of just giving voice to the general reaction we got to the Apple event. I mean, obviously the stock was down a lot more today from that event. So it feels as if, you know, you're only just buying kind of the financial quality and the predictability or steadiness. Not a lot of leverage to the upside. But, you know, maybe the stock is.

[Melissa Lee]

Already priced that in that's sort of the time when you think maybe on one side of the boat nobody's expecting. Exactly.

[Mike Santoli]

We'll see.

[Melissa Lee]

Next up, Chipotle heading to Asia, working with a Korean based restaurant operator to open its first locations in South Korea and Singapore next year. Earlier this year, Chipotle announced plans to expand to Mexico. Chipotle down 5% this week. It'll be interesting to see how Chipotle's burritos are received in Mexico.

[Mike Santoli]

It will. I was just going to say not only that, I mean Singapore, South Korea, places with some pretty good food. You know, it's not like.

[Melissa Lee]

Right.

[Mike Santoli]

You know, but who knows, you know the fact that KFC became so huge in China tells you that branding and kind of American ness maybe can sell.

[Melissa Lee]

In certain other American is still has. Still.

[Steve Liesman]

That's the test.

[Melissa Lee]

The premium, I guess.

[Mike Santoli]

Yes.

[Melissa Lee]

Topic three here. Can a $160 lipstick help luxury brands break out of a slump? LVMH it's betting on it. This follows similar moves from other luxury retailers. Prada has also branched out into cosmetics. The luxury trade has been under pressure for several years with tariffs just the latest headwind. LVMH is down more than 20% so far this year. I don't know. That's, that's steep.

[Mike Santoli]

It is. I was going to say is 160 a lot for lipstick?

[Melissa Lee]

Yes. I mean get them for like five bucks.

[Mike Santoli]

It fascinates me because you know, the lipstick indicator was oh, recessions, people buy small luxuries to make themselves feel better. So this was takes a little bit more. Also the $7 sterling silver telephone dialer at Tiffany's from Brett at Tiffany's.

[Melissa Lee]

Sounds like a deal.

[Mike Santoli]

All right, that's it for us. Thank you for watching the exchange. The analyst behind that Apple downgrade we just discussed will join Power Lunch which starts right now.

[Melissa Lee]

You've been listening to the exchange.

[Diana Olek]

Make sure you're subscribed to get each.

[Melissa Lee]

Episode every day, same time, same place.

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