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The Fit and Fabulous Podcast
EPISODE 111: Change Your Relationship with Alcohol with Amanda Kuda
00:52:25
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome to the Fit and fabulous podcast with Dr. Jamie Seaman. Hello friends and listeners, it's Dr. Jamie and welcome back to the Fit and Fabulous podcast. I am really excited about today's episode. Many of you know, a couple years ago I went on an alcohol free journey that I shared very openly on social media and it has really changed the way that I view alcohol. It's changed the way that I live my life and we are going to unpack that on today's episode. I have an incredible guest. Amanda Kuda is an alcohol free lifestyle expert. She's a holistic life coach, speaker and authority. She lives, works and plays in Austin, Texas. She helps ambitious, soul centered women stop drinking and start manifesting the life they deserve and that they desire. She teaches a modern approach to personal development, self actualization and spiritual enlightenment through the lens of elective sobriety. Her first book, Unbottled potential, Break up with alcohol and breakthrough to your best life is out now. You can go check it out wherever books are sold. Amanda, welcome to the Fit and Fabulous podcast.
- [01:19]
B
Thank you, Dr. Jamie. I'm excited to chat today, so I
- [01:25]
A
want to dive right in and I want to hear about your story for our listeners and how you ever got to writing a book on elective sobriety.
- [01:35]
B
Well, that is quite a surprising journey. You know, I know that you've written a book as well and I think that for people who have have that desire on their heart, it's probably been there a really long time. And I remember being a little kid thinking I'm going to write a book someday. I know that I'm going to do that now. Did I ever think I would be writing a self help book? No, that didn't cross my mind as a second grader. But as I grew older, you know, I realized in my late 20s, early 30s that I was kind of just craving for something more in life. I was ticking all of the boxes of what it meant to live a good, vibrant, healthy life. I had a great social network, I had a great job, I had a master's degree, I had the house, a car, you know, everything that I would need to say that I'd made it. And I felt this sense of existential dread, like something was missing, I was doing something wrong. But I felt so selfish for thinking that way because I had all of the conveniences that I could ever want. And it felt really confusing to feel that way, to feel dissatisfied, to feel off track. And I kind of went on this spiritual and mental physical health journey where I started really paying attention to Things, you know, I was working out, I was watching what I was eating, I was praying, I was meditating, I was going to yoga, I was lifting weights. I was trying to do all of the things that, you know, we're taught will help you live an optimal life. And yet I still felt this void. And after trying for so many years to add. Add. Add things to my life, I had to take a look at some of the behaviors that maybe I could remove from my life. And at that point, as you, you know, probably well know, and a lot of your listeners will know, in your 20s and 30s, you are out being a socialite. And one of the social things that we do is drink alcohol. And that was no different for me. Very social drinker. I thought that that was fun and fancy and fabulous. And when I looked at the habits that maybe could be holding me back, alcohol was one of them. And I certainly did not want that to be the habit that I gave up, because I am a little awkward and anxious, and I did not want to be out in the social world without this social lubricant. And yet, every time I looked at my habits and behaviors, that was the one that presented itself. Even though it wasn't problematic, it was entirely normal. But what I had to face in reality is that I didn't want a normal life. I wanted an extraordinary life. And so I decided I needed to start doing extraordinary things. And the first of which was trying to see if cutting out alcohol would make any changes and differences. And wouldn't, you know, Dr. Jamie, that as soon as alcohol was out of the way, and I'd love to hear some of what your experience was, everything shifted, miraculously started shifting for the better. And so I never look back. And because most of the approaches we see out there to going alcohol free are rooted in addiction and recovery, I wanted to write a book for the. The woman specifically, who just kind of has started to sense that maybe their life might be better without alcohol. And so that's how I ended up here.
- [04:27]
A
Yeah, so I have a very similar story. You know, grew up in the Midwest. I was an athlete, which, of course, you know, as an athlete, you know, you know, care about your body, but. But I was young, and I was in college, and. Same thing, you know, really, it was just a social thing. I mean, the first beer that was ever handed to me was just like at a. At a house party. And I thought it was disgusting, but I drank it anyway. And then, you know, through my years of med school, once again, very social. As my husband And I became young adults once again. Every social event we went to, there was cocktails. And just like many people probably listening, for me, it was kind of like that release. I'm going to have a glass of wine. I'm going to have this. It allows me to be free and. And whatever. Never had any legal troubles, was never addicted in any sense. My father did go through some periods of alcoholism in his life, and that for me was very eye opening because I never had a problem saying, no, it wasn't. It wasn't that for me. But watching my dad go through that, I realized what it really does to families. And I started to come into this time in my life where things were going really well, my business is booming. And then I started to almost feel, I don't want to say feel like a fraud, but it was like, okay, I'm telling people to eat, you know, these healthy foods and to exercise and to do this and to do that. And when you look at the literature, alcohol literally adds nothing to your health. There's only subtraction going on when it comes to alcohol. And. And I felt like in the health space, you know, there are some random studies that show that maybe low or moderate alcohol use could maybe be good for you, but really the data is mostly for men. For women, it's just a completely net negative. And so I started to kind of talk about it out loud with some of my very close circle. I was like, you know, I'm kind of thinking about, like, giving up alcohol. And I had a real close friend that I said, you know, I'm almost thinking I should just give it up for a year. Because every time I started to think about it, I started to say, yeah, but then it's tailgate season, but then it's the holidays, and then it's my birthday, and then we're going on the summer vacation. And so I was finding these, like, justifications of times when maybe it would be more appropriate. And then I thought to myself, well, that's just silly. If you just do it for a whole year, then you'll get to experience every time of the year, and you'll get to experience all of these different moments where you were making these excuses and justifications and just see what it's like. And for me, it was kind of, I just want to see what it's like to be in these situations and then figure out, was it really adding something to my life, was it not adding something to my life and just kind of share that journey openly with people. I'm Very interested to hear how your journey started and what the experience was like in the first year. Because after a year my husband and I decided, okay, we're going to take it off the table. It's not a badge of honor how many days we've gone, you know, without. Let's add it back in and see what it's like. And ever since then, every cocktail I've had since that one year journey, I've regretted. Like, I'm just like, I don't even know why I drank this. Like, I, it was like the longer I abstained from it then I really didn't want it. And it's been very sparingly, you know, since then. And I could easily go the rest of my entire life without ever having one. And it has really changed my world. So I'm interested to hear how you started and how what that experience was like for you.
- [08:07]
B
Yes. Well, congratulations first of all because you made that powerful mindset shift that was getting over all of the excuses. And I made a post about this this morning that we're always waiting for a convenient time and, and you just did the inventory of. There's never going to be a convenient time. There's always an excuse. We live in a boozy world. There's always going to be a tailgate, a wedding or a shitty day that we want to drink away our sorrows. And the fact of the matter is you just have to make the decision. And doing the one year thing is so powerful because you do get to have that full experience. You do get to have a full season by season inventory of what it's like. And I think that that was so wise of you because it gave you probably like just a boost in confidence too. Like, oh, wow, I can do all of these things that I thought it was necessary or required to drink in order and I can still do it, I can still show up. And I think that's the thing that a lot of people miss and that I certainly missed in the beginning because I wanted to find this like miracle approach to moderation, you know. Again, I wasn't a problematic drinker, but I definitely, once I, once I got started, it was, it was not. There was no stopping. It was like, we're going to go balls to the wall on this occasion and it' probably going to be a long night out. And as I got older, there were more and more occasions that, okay, I could have just a few, but I found that I started to feel really icky. And so I had tried for probably two years to find this moderation approach and kind of sucker myself into it. But even when I did manage to have just a few, I still woke up feeling kind of that sense of dread and low level anxiety. And that didn't feel good. And so, you know, I wasn't really clocking my journey because being that phrase now that people use is sober, curious. I didn't know that that was a thing and that's, that's what I was doing. But if I look back at probably the two years before I decided, you just have to quit, this just has to be off the table, I, I really dabbled back and forth and really tried to figure out a way to control it. And what I found out is when I made the decision to quit, I did dry January. And that was a really great mechanism for me. But I would encourage anyone who's trying to change that relationship. Just start, just start. There's never going to be a convenient time. You don't have to wait for the first of the week or the month or the year. And once I stopped, I had the intention to stop for 30 days. And at the end of 30 days, I had this like inner intelligence that said, this isn't all there is. You need to keep going. And so I extended that to 90 days, then to six months and nine months in a year. And kind of like you, Dr. Jamie, at the end of that year, I thought, well, this really, I, it actually felt really good. I don't know why I would bring this thing in. And so I had the unique experience that I just never went back. And I haven't had any alcohol since because I started realizing that I felt so good. And by the way, during that time I was building up kind of my emotional and social toolbox to where I started to become confident in all of the things that I could conquer without alcohol, that I had used it where I'd used it as a tool before. And from that standpoint, it just became insignificant. Like, this actually has no use for me because I don't need it to numb out my emotions. I don't need it as a social lubricant. So why integrate it back in. In any sense? It's not necessary for me. And that felt really powerful.
- [11:27]
A
Yeah, it was interesting to me when we would tell people what we were doing, the reactions of, oh my gosh, I could do that for 30 days but not a year. You guys are crazy. Or I could do that for 60 or 90 days. And I think, you know, the psychologists have, they've studied that, right? You, you like, have to do something. I think 60 days is kind of the tipping point where if you can do something consistently for 60 days, you can kind of create a better chance of having that stick as a habit. But I will say, when I first started, I vividly remember this. We were going to go out with friends. We were going to go to a little bar, and then we had live music. We were going to another location where there was live music, and everybody order a cocktail. And I ordered, like, a club soda with a lime. That was kind of my go to because I felt like it looked like I was drinking, and it felt like it was something different than just plain water. But I remember the waitress's face, and I could, like, see this look in her. I'm not going to call it judgment. I'm sure it was. But, you know, people are like, is she pregnant? Is she the driver? Is she. You know, you're just like the. The odd. Odd person out. And I started to kind of feel awkward, and then I just. I could not find my groove that night. I just. It was like low serotonin and low dopamine. And we know with some of these, I don't want to say addictive behaviors, but something that you do repeatedly, that you get serotonin and dopamine from, you really have to have this kind of, like, period of abstinence to reset those receptors. And that night, I felt it so bad. I was just like, oh, this is, like, not fun. And I started to think, like, oh, my God, is this what the next year is going to be like? But then as I did it repeatedly, as I did it repeatedly, as I did it repeatedly, I loved it. And what I loved so much is you and I have both said this a couple times already on the podcast, that there never was a problem. I think sometimes you don't know that there's a problem until you try something different. Like, you don't know that you're the problem. Yeah. What I really discovered was I loved waking up the next day and feeling a hundred percent.
- [13:43]
B
Yes.
- [13:43]
A
Like, brain is clear, I'm ready to go. No weird taste in my mouth before I brush my teeth. Like, I'm a hundred percent. Like, even though there was never a problem, I could get up and I could function. I could do my life. But I'm a mom of three kids, and let's be real, even if I take the time to go engage socially on an evening, more likely than not, I got a full schedule the next day, and I need to be on. And so what I really loved is that I just felt great all the time. It wasn't like Saturday morning, Sunday morning, or slower, you know, getting going. I realized that after I would have a couple beverages, I used to get anxiety. The next day that was gone. It was like, you just. I never realized there was a problem until I went without it and realized how great life was, you know, without it.
- [14:30]
B
Yeah, it's that. It's kind of that epiphany of you don't know how, like, low your baseline had been for what feeling good meant. And you thought you felt good before. And then when you actually started to feel good, you're like, whoa, this is way better than what I was doing for the past, you know, 10, 15 years. And I kind of equate it to, you know, what we do when we're drinking alcohol is we, like, cheat ourselves into thinking that we're having this full life experience. It's no different than, let's say you've been swimming in the ocean your entire life, but you've been swimming with a life vest on, and you've convinced yourself you're a good swimmer. Well, you've been cheating. You've been cheating, and that also means you've just been floating on the surface. You've just been skimming the surface of what's available to you. So let's say you take off that life vest and you're in the deep end of the ocean. Well, that's going to be scary for a second, because it's scary. But then if you figure out how to swim and how to manage it and that also, you don't have to just stay on the surface, you can dive deep and have this much richer and more powerful experience that's hard to unsee. And I think that when you let yourself get to that point with alcohol, and I think the important thing to note is it doesn't just happen after 30 days. Alcohol has built up in your system, and you have to give it some time to kind of evacuate, but also for you to build up new skill sets and get your. Your body back in sync. And when that happens, you start to feel really good. And so floating on the surface is no longer appealing to you. And that's a really powerful place to be to Dec. I want to feel good. That wasn't it before, and now I know. And so now I'm choosing a different path. And I think that's pretty amazing. And a lot of people are starting to wake up to that fact.
- [16:12]
A
Are you ready to unlock your full potential? I Want to introduce you to the Fit, Healthy and Happy Podcast, a powerful resource to transform your life today. With expert interviews, practical tips and inspiring stories, this podcast is your roadmap to lasting wellness. Here's what a listener has to say.
- [16:31]
B
I used to struggle with my health,
- [16:32]
A
but this podcast changed everything. It's like having a personal trainer, nutritionist and life coach, totally for free. With over 20005 star reviews, we're a podcast you can trust. The Fit, Healthy and Happy podcast, available now wherever you get your podcast. So after you started this, do you, do you continue to attend as many social events interactions that you did before?
- [17:04]
B
No, I don't. And you know, I think that I'm kind of, we're probably similar and I'm very stubborn. And so I went out to a lot of those same social events and I'm still very social, it's just a different type of social. So what I realized is that if something isn't fun without alcohol, it's probably just not fun. And so many of the things I was doing as a drinker were these very chaotic, high energy, loud, rowdy things that you kind of had to have alcohol in order to not get over stimulated and also to be satisfied with having conversations where there was barely any anything of depth exchanged. You know, in those situations, like you can gossip a little bit, you can scream over the noise, but after a while if you're not drinking, you start to get exhausted. And what I started to realize is it's not me that's boring. It's these things that I'm going to that they're just not the same for me once I am actually being present and that now I crave the depth of conversation and that can't be had in those environments. And so I just kind of shifted what my social life looked like. I realized those things are no longer for me because they're too chaotic. They don't have a depth of connection. Now will I go to a rowdy party in a concert or you know, a bar every now and then? Yeah. And in special occasions. But more often than not I'm craving for that deep connection and a good conversation and it just can't be had in those environments. And I think that what we do well, I know that what we do with alcohol is we numb our minds to be able to tolerate that situation. And our most authentic self probably wants for something more. So I just got to set a boundary of this is what I like and this is what I'm going to do and I'm going to Say no to some of those other types of social activities. And that felt pretty powerful. And I wonder if you've had a similar experience at all.
- [18:53]
A
Yeah, I mean, I think when you really talk to people about this experience, most of them would probably say, yeah, I'm not my best self when I drink. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, well, then why do you want that person to, like, why do you. Why do we, like, tolerate that, you know, like, over and over and over? And I think it's because it's just so socially reinforced. Like, if you, you know, sat down and ate a dozen donuts, like, people would be like, whoa. But, like, nobody questions you when you have a couple cocktails or a couple beers. They don't think any less of you. It's. There's far more judgment abstaining than there is drinking. And for me, it's just been. I don't like who I am when I, you know, in the moment. Yeah, of course, like, there's social inhibition, like you. But what I've realized without it is now I care about other things. You know, I care more about the people I'm with, because sober people, you know, you really see who people really are. You know, if you can have a nice, engaging, meaningful, deep human connection. Right. I care more about the quality of the food and the taste of the food. You know, like, if I'm going to go out to a nice dinner, like, I really want to have, you know, like, more of a culinary experience rather than having a couple glasses of wine, and I'm like, oh, yeah, this is like a great steak. So I found that I. I put more, you know, emphasis in. In those other aspects and getting, you know, pleasure from. From those other things. And. And I'm with you. I mean, there's definitely, like, a raging party, like, not for me anymore. You know, it's just. And maybe it's, you know, that chapter was important, you know, for where I am today, but, you know, it's. It's just. I don't find enjoyment in it.
- [20:43]
B
Yeah, I think it's definitely a rite of passage. And I don't for any. For one second regret the years that I spent having that experience. And it also was what taught me, okay, I had that. Do I want to stay down this path and keep having that, or do I want to try something different? And as I've evolved and I have different desires, I wanted something different. I wanted to have a different level of, you know, inner peace and outer expression, and that just wasn't possible when I was always prioritizing my social life and alcohol as the central point of that social life. Now I actually have more friendships, better friendships, friendships that truly understand me and show up for me. And not that there was anything. I still maintain friendships with a lot of people who I met in my kind of socialite party girl phase. But for the most part, a lot of those were transactional. A lot of those were acquaintances and not friendships. And that leaves you feeling kind of lonely at the end of the day. And so now I can say that I built true, genuine, authentic friendships. And that feels really good.
- [21:44]
A
When we did it, you know, I mentioned that a lot of people were like, oh, my God, I could never do that. But there. There were a handful of close friends and acquaintances that ended up just. Just jumping on and doing it with us. And I have a whole nother level of respect for those people for doing that. One of them, actually, particularly this couple, I mean, they really needed it. I mean, they were like, you know, drinking a half bottle of wine a night. And recently I was talking to this person, and she was like, you know, gosh, I just can't figure out lately why, you know, I've gained some weight. I'm just not feeling this and that and the other. And she goes. And then I realized that year that we did without alcohol, how good I really felt. Like, now she's kind of, you know, gone back to her old ways. But a couple of the people that did it with us, still to this day, I don't even know now, 700, 800, 900 days, like, without alcohol, they've just continued on like they did a year, and they've just never looked back. And they repeatedly tell me how much has changed their world, and I'm just like, oh, my God. Like, I just, on a whim, was like, let's try it. I just. I'm a competitive person. I like a challenge. And I really kind of went into it like, okay, this will be a good challenge, but never realized how many lives along the way that people were watching and listening and observing and that other people would get so much out of it. I don't know if you did this, but I found some app. I'm trying to even think of what it was called now, because I don't track on it anymore. But I found some app that I was tracking the days, and it calculated the calories saved, the money saved, like, the time saved. It was. It was really. I would screenshot it every once in a while and share it on my social media. But that was another eye opening thing, like how much money you spend. You know, when you go to a restaurant and you're ordering cocktails or you're picking up people's bar tabs. And the calories, I mean, from a health perspective, let's be real, you know, it's just, it's empty calories, there's no nutrients. And because of the. We'll get a little sciency for just a second. Because of the priority of oxidation, when you drink alcohol, your body has to metabolize that alcohol first before it touches carb, fat, protein, calories. So if you're drinking a beer and having a burger and fries with it, that burger and fries is just hanging out and getting stored while your body works on metabolizing the ethanol. You know, the other thing that I think is so interesting is now that people. This, I think this, I think the sober, curious thing is getting more popular. Do you agree?
- [24:11]
B
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Since 2020, it's really just skyrocketed.
- [24:15]
A
Yeah. Okay. But what I'm seeing now, I was just doing some research, you know, before the podcast is I'm getting a lot of ads now for these supplements and drinks you're supposed to take to make you feel less crappy when you drink. And I'm like, wow, like, this is just like, this is America, right? Like, take the drink the poison and take the treatment.
- [24:42]
B
Yep. Oh, my goodness. And you know what? I used to. I actually keep. I remember I had started trying to drink like cleaner because, you know, that was healthier. And then I have in my, like, junk. Yeah. Organic wine. And I have in my junk drawer, I had bought at Whole Foods, one of those, like little pills that was like the. That you take before or after or whatever. And I keep it around just to be ironic, just so I can look back at it and think, you know, Amanda, you actually thought that worked. And, you know, I've read the science. I'm not a scientist or a doctor like you, so I'll let you break it down if you want. But just like you said, with, you know, alcohol being given the priority, most of the things that you will put into your body to help, help with the alcohol, they actually don't work because alcohol. Because the alcohol is being prioritized. So what will happen, like with water, for example, because, like, a lot of people will try to over hydrate when they're drinking, but because your body recognizes the water and it doesn't recognize what to do with the alcohol, it's just flushing the water through.
- [25:45]
A
So when you drink, you have diuretic. So.
- [25:48]
B
Yeah, yeah. Which is why you have to pee the whole time. And also, by the way, why you get dehydrated. Because the water that you're putting into your system to try and help is just flushing through. It's not getting absorbed. And so that's what's happening with a lot of these supplements that you're putting into your body. The mineral and the minerals or whatever you're eating, it's just, it's creating chaos in your body. Your body's not working optimally and it's just not working. To me, it's not good for you. So it's kind of just a hoax, basically.
- [26:16]
A
Yeah, I mean, I've looked, I've looked at the ingredients in these things and I, and I, I've looked at the research. So I mean, a lot of them are going to have like B vitamins. It's going to try to replete things that the ethanol is depleting from your body. They're going to have some form of electrolytes. Well as going to try to help with water reabsorption. You know, sodium will help you reabsorb some water. The only ingredient that I have found in any of these supplements that I think has maybe any legitimate scientific literature there is something called DHM or dihydromycetin, which helps metabolize. So one of the metabolites of, of alcohol that makes you feel crappy is called acetyl aldehyde. And dihydromycetin essentially helps increase, like, quicken up the metabolism of acetyl aldehyde to make you have less of a hangover and feel less crappy. And totally anecdotal evidence, but since I've added alcohol back in, I've tried it and I do think it helps. But once again, like, this is like totally American. Take the poison, take the treatment. Like, don't worry about fixing your diabetes with your lifestyle. Just take the pill. Take the pill.
- [27:25]
B
Yeah.
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A
And so, yeah, so, yeah, it's just, it's a, it's a whole nother waste of money. You'd be much better off cutting back or just cutting out.
- [27:35]
B
Absolutely. And I think also to that point, because, you know, you are working with a lot of people who want to optimize their health or maybe even you see people who have, you know, we're just seeing, especially in women, like a rise of different immunodeficiencies and things. And if you have something in your body that you're trying to optimize or Heal. One of the fastest ways you can ensure better results is to remove alcohol, because alcohol is just coming in and discombobulating the whole system. And it's so hurtful for me to see. You know, I, I work with women every day who tell me that they have this issue that's unsolvable or this thing that they're trying to work on and they're not moving the needle and there's no, there's nothing they can do. And I'm like, well, how often are you drinking? Because that's just coming into your system and creating again, chaos every day, every week, whatever it is. And that's not allowing your body to heal and to really get back to homeostasis or as close as it can get based on everything else that's going on in your body. And it's so, it's so, you know, frustrating and sad that we've chosen this thing that's been just sold to us instead of our own health and our own wellness. And I really just want people to have access to this information because a lot of doctors aren't sharing it either. A lot of. Because a lot of them don't know, first of all, or they choose. Choose not to talk about it because it's not sexy or it's taboo or maybe because they have their own issues with it. And it's, it's something that definitely needs to be discussed because it's slowing us down.
- [29:02]
A
You know, before this podcast, I just got to thinking, you know, like, as humans, you know, like alcohol has been consumed for thousands upon thousands upon thousands of years. You look in the religious literature, you know, we have, you know, even back to ancient populations and cultures, they found evidence of, you know, making ciders and beers and wines and things like that. And then drunken people were like, you know, the drunk guy in the street. It was almost like a socially accepted thing until the industrialization era kind of occurred and people needed to go to work and have jobs. And then it was seen as a threat to industrial culture to have drunk people because you need them to show up and work their shift from like 9 to 5, right? So then it became, you know, and then of course, we had the prohibition and all of that. And. And I've always, you know, I always wonder, you know, if something is so bad, then, you know, for our bodies, like, why have we consumed it for like thousands upon thousands upon thousands of years? And then I also think to myself, well, they weren't selling like Costco size boxes of whole spot. Like, if you had to like distill and ferment. Because I think during COVID too, people, I saw a lot more people like brewing their own beer in the closet. You know, like you had all this time for these new hobbies. And I, and I think that is the key is like, if you actually like are making your own sourdough or like distilling your own beer, you have this like more sense and purpose. And you're probably not consuming like boatloads of it, but when you can go to the store and pick up a, you know, 24 pack of, you know, beer or bottles of wine, and then once you open the wine, you feel like you got to drink the whole bottle. It's just we have created this society where it's so easy to over consume. And that is. And that is, I think, where we've really run into trouble as a, as a society.
- [30:56]
B
Oh, absolutely. I always wonder, you know, would I know my relationship with alcohol would have been different if I grew up in a different culture and every culture has their, you know, their things with it, but if it would have been more sacred and, you know, higher quality, less availability to where it's more of an experience versus a let's just over consume. And I think that we could have had a different experience, but that's not where we are. And so at this point, yeah, that would be great if we could still have kind of the sacredness of alcohol, but that's not where we're at. And so you have to make decisions for yourself based on what's best for you. And in a society where we've been taught to over consume, you know, for me, once I decided to abstain rather than trying to moderate, I just freed up all of this brain space that I could use for something else. And you know, I have a business that I am running and all of these other things that I want to do. And I just realized, wow, I've been wasting all of this time and space and energy, not to mention the time I spent drinking and hungover that I could have been using to live my best life. And now I want to do that. And so instead of trying to figure alcohol out and make good for all of the mistakes my ancestors had made, I just decided I'm just not going to do it anymore. And that's my decision. And that's what's felt great for me.
- [32:14]
A
Yeah, you know, I think in, in the medicine world, you know, now people are looking at other drugs. Like during my, during my one year journey, I used to say to my Husband. I don't know what it is, but like, I need another drug, but not ethanol. Like, and, you know, and now we're looking at psychedelics and all of these different things in medicine. And I do think that some of these things have a place and a time and more as a ritual and not as habitual. So we've, I think we've. I just made that up. I love it.
- [32:42]
B
Let's get it. You are. I can give you a little poetry snap here.
- [32:46]
A
Yeah. So I think we've admonished the listeners enough. I think, I think they're, they're opening their minds now. Super curious. So let's talk about actionable steps. Somebody is listening right now. They're like, okay, I'm real curious about this and I want to get started tomorrow. I'm not going to wait. And no more excuses. Give people what is, what does the roadmap look like? Give them advice for implementing this into their life.
- [33:10]
B
Yeah, you know, I'd love for you to just make a, a hundred percent commitment to a short term, but also still challenging time frame. So, you know, Jamie, you chose a year. I think that 90 days is a very good place to start. Not that you're going to go 90 days and then go right back to the habit, but give yourself 90 days of a Runway, because that's enough to see some sort of progress, but also not so much that it becomes over intimidating and also enough time that you're going to experience some of the life things like holidays, vacations, birthdays over that 90 day period that then at the end of that 90 days, you can reevaluate what are the positive changes I'm seeing? What are the challenges I've had? Is it possible that maybe I need some more tools and resources to overcome these challenges? So really just giving yourself a reasonable yet achievable time frame and then some time to evaluate what you saw and make some decisions. Moving forward from there would be my first thing. And I think that if you can do that, then you're going to have a really solid foundation to make the next best decision from.
- [34:16]
A
I think that reflection is so important. And that's when people used to say, well, like, why are you doing this? And I'm just like, I just want to experience it. I want to see what, what got added to my life, what got taken away from my life. And I think that's, I think that's a really important thing. Now. If somebody's listening and they're like, yeah, but my husband is definitely not going to do this with me. And like, none of my girlfriends are going to do this with me. I mean, what is, what is someone to do when they feel like they're the only one?
- [34:46]
B
The only one? Well, I think I actually wanted to comment on this when you said it earlier that you were in your group of friends. And guess what? I grew up in the Midwest too, so I know just exactly what the drinking culture is there. And I think that we all feel that wherever we live, it's impossible to quit drinking because of the drinking culture. So I just want to state across the board, we all have that kind of scary little sense, but you are the relationship leader in your circle of friends. You did something scary that. Guess what a lot of other people were probably maybe thinking about a little bit. They just needed one person to jump over the edge and go first for them to say, oh, I've been wondering that too, but I just wasn't brave enough to be the only one. I would imagine that in most case scenarios that you are going to find someone that admires that or is curious and will come along with you or at the least, be your cheerleader. And I hope that even if your partner doesn't quit drinking, that they will at least cheer for you and encourage you to do something for your health. And, you know, I have a whole other set of words if that's not the case. But we're going to assume that they are going to cheer for you and be supportive, even if they don't change their behavior. And at the end of the day, you have to make a choice for you. If you know you. You can't. You can't live your life based on what everyone else is doing. If you need to make a change that's going to make you feel better and help you to achieve your full potential in a different way, you can't rely on someone else to hold your hand and do it with you. You have to make that decision for yourself. And it can be really powerful. And I think you'll be surprised at who maybe gets on board. On board with you.
- [36:20]
A
Yeah, I mean, just like when I talk to people about behavior change in their diet or incorporating an exercise routine or whatever it is, I call it standards over emotions. I mean, emotions are designed to solve problems. So what. What is. What is the problem? What is. What is the thing you're avoiding? What is the relationship tension that you are avoiding? What is. You know, they are designed to solve a problem. And so you just have to have a standard. And so you just say okay, well, like, this is who I am now, and this is my stand standard. And excuses are subtle, seductive, and believable. Oh, they are, yeah. Yeah. So you can. You can literally find a reason to not do what you're supposed to do anytime, for sure.
- [37:07]
B
Yes. And, you know, I just want to say one other thing that, yeah, we have kind of dogged on alcohol and drinking and drinking culture and how it's so, you know, pervasive in our world. And I really, I really want people to see being alcohol free not as something to be frustrated about or shameful about or alcohol, not as something that we got suckered into. Sure, that can all be true. And at the end of the day, I chose to stop drinking because I wanted to fulfill something in myself that I just knew wasn't possible when drinking alcohol. And so making that choice was actually really empowering and expansive to me once I got rooted in that decision. And it wasn't about shame and it wasn't about alcohol being bad, wrong, or evil, or drinkers being bad, wrong, or evil. It was about, I wanted to be a better version of myself. And that felt so good and so high vibe, and that's the energy through which I've lived my life ever since. And it's felt really good to make that shift. And so I just want to really give a positive closure to anyone who's thinking about it that it can be a really empowering and amazing thing if you choose to look at it from that perspective.
- [38:09]
A
Oh, a hundred percent. The more that I continued to go into the social environments where I knew I was going to be challenged, where there would be other people having drinks and things like that, every time I was like, no, I'm good. It was like, it was so. It was just like, more confidence, more confidence, more confidence. I had no problem with it at all. Um, and I think that's just something you just have to do over and over and over. Just like any new skill, like when you first learn to ride a bike, you look silly, right. And then pretty soon you're zipping down the hill with hands in the air, no handlebars. Right. Um, tell me what your thoughts are about N A Products, mocktails, those types of things. When people are kind of on this journey, is it a good thing, is a bad thing? Is it individual?
- [38:51]
B
I think it's individual, but I think it can be super helpful. I think that if you are just wanting something special in your glass, instead of having a club soda in lime, you want something that has kind of some pizzazz. To it that there are so many options now, first of all, NA beers and a lot of, I think the sparkling NA wines specifically, dead ringers for the thing. So if you're wanting the flavor and experience, there's so many things that have been really brought to life that taste really similar. And if you just want something special, there's non alcoholic spirits now. And all of these, you know, adaptogenic drinks, I think that they can be super helpful. I don't find that I drink them all that often unless I'm out just because I kind of. They weren't around when I started. So I learned to do without, but. Or I learned. I learned a different path. But I. I mean, I have them here. I've tried almost everyone. I think that they're really delicious. I think that the only place that I would say no is if it's one of those situations where it makes you feel that you need the real thing. And I've rarely heard of that. That's usually when you're a little bit more experiencing symptoms of withdrawn addiction that you start to feel that, oh, well, this tastes like beer, but it's not giving me the same feeling. Most people have no problem with it. And it's actually something that just helps them get over the hump because it's that novel thing that you get to drink.
- [40:09]
A
Yeah, my husband and I did experience. We. I tried a couple different companies that had kind of these, you know, NA or adaptogenic drinks or whatever it is. And the trouble I always ran into was like, when you go to a. A restaurant or whatever, they'll have some alcohol free drinks on the menu and almost all of them are filled with juices and filled with like a lot of sugar or extra calories. And then I'm like, okay, I'd be less calories if I just had a glass of wine or less calories if I just had a beer besides this, like, you know, mocktail or whatever. So I had to start to really be creative and kind of look things. And that's why I did a lot of club soda and lime. And then I kind of liked, for some reason, I liked spicy. And so then I'd have them put jalapenos in there. Or I found this gal online. I think she just was. Maybe her business has really taken off. It's called Bon Buzz. And it was like this really spicy kind of mocktail thing. And I really loved that. But what's crazy is I'm sure it was just coincidence, but when we started this one year journey, the na Market was like exploding. Like when we first started, it was like hard to even find an NA drink. And then all of a sudden, by the end of our journey, you could buy a 24 pack. Like it was like first it was just six packs and then it was all of a sudden you could buy. And so I was just trying to pull up the data because I think this is, this is very interesting. Oh, and then there was like the athletic bruise. Like they were really marketing to the health conscious people. And we found some products that we liked. But okay, so the US non alcoholic beverage market was valued at 149.62 billion, billion billion with a B in 2022. And it's projected to grow to 225 billion by 2030. It is like completely taking off, which I think is really cool. I mean, you know, because what we found was we could take an NA product to a tailgate or to the lake or whatever and we got less questions from people. We felt like we were enjoying ourselves and we felt amazing the next day. So I like that option. And I don't think for me that it, that it, you know, I think it's like candy cigarettes.
- [42:08]
B
Yes. It's never triggered me. Yeah.
- [42:10]
A
Pretend like. Yeah, like it's never triggered me. Yeah. So, but yeah, in 2023, NA beer, wine and spirits increased by 32%. And in my town, I don't know about Austin. Austin's a hip, a hip new place that's seen a lot of growth. We now have bars that are completely non alcoholic. There was a brand new one that just opened in our downtown area. I've seen the menus expand at places with, with more options. Is that what you've seen down in Austin too?
- [42:35]
B
Oh, absolutely. And we actually had the first non alcoholic bar was in Austin. And so it's been so cool to watch that explode and then watch these places all over the world start to carry. Just be more mindful of the fact that some people don't want to drink or they can't drink or they choose not to drink. And yeah, these non full, non alcoholic spaces opening up has been really awesome and expansive. And it's happened really within the period of the last five years, which has been really amazing and cool to watch.
- [43:03]
A
And one thing I did discover for the people listening is that NA products tend to be more expensive than the product with alcohol. And I couldn't figure out why for the longest time until I met a woman who owns a brewery and she told me they were going to come out with an NA beer. And I was like, okay, that's fantastic to offer your customers. And she said, yeah, but because it's more expensive. And so I was like, tell me, tell me why. So because they have to pasteurize it. Because alcohol kills things, right? And so NA beers, there is a different process because there's no alcohol in there, and it's a more expensive process. So that's why your 6 or 12 pack of any beer is going to be more than the actual real one. Which I was like, well, this is silly. I feel like I'm getting punished paying more money for this.
- [43:48]
B
Well, when you think about it, though, so what they're doing, like with an NA wine, they distill it and go through the whole process and then they de alcoholize it. So. And it's done in a smaller batch. So we know that when we mass produce something, it can be, you know, less expensive. But because fewer people, it's. Even though it's a growing market, they're still producing less. But you're also going to drink less. I have never drank more than, geez, maybe three NA beers in a setting. And that's because it's not diluting my appetite and changing, you know, it's not, you know, kind of diluting my senses like a regular beer is. So your tolerance for one of those things is going to be quite a bit smaller. So you can again, kind of go back to that where it's a little more decadent. It's a little more of an experience. It's a little. You're not using it in the same function, so it's going to last longer. So yeah, it costs more, but it's because it's actually better for you and because. Oh, I wouldn't say better for you, but because it's, you know, they've removed the alcohol that's not present and because it's small batch, so you're paying for something that you're also not going to over consume. And so I think it all evens out in the end. But it does kind of rub you the wrong way at first when you see that. When you see those price tags.
- [44:57]
A
Yeah, for sure. Okay. So Amanda, obviously you've told people you feel better, you know, you feel amazing. How, how long. How long have you been completely sober?
- [45:07]
B
Almost eight years.
- [45:09]
A
Eight years?
- [45:09]
B
Yeah.
- [45:10]
A
That's fantastic. Awesome. Okay, she's got delts. I can see her delts here on for you YouTube people. She's clearly very fit. Tell people. Tell people what? In this last eight years, what other transformations have you seen in your life? Health, career, family, what is it? What big things are you doing?
- [45:29]
B
Every single aspect of my life has changed for the better, which was really miraculous because I had no idea all of the ways that alcohol was causing me to play small. And you know, from a fitness perspective, when I quit drinking, I was then going to the gym like five or six days a week. Not out of an addictive behavior of any kind, but because I felt great and my body was recovering so much more quickly and because I was up early and what else was I going to do? So I would just hit the gym all the time. And I also, you know, my mental health started to improve. I wouldn't say that I was depressed before, but I definitely just would lean more apathetic or woe is me and victim mentality. And I was really able to work on my mindset in a way that I wasn't able to as a drinker. And so my emotional resilience improved. I started to become to feel more capable of handling things and also with a more even temper like I handle most things with a lot of ease now. Where before it would have really just agitated me and caused me to go into a state of gloom and doom. Why me? Anxiety. I have a stronger spiritual connection. I really have leaned into, you know, a spiritual connection of my own understanding, very non denominational. And that's felt really great because it gives me a sense of always feeling supported. And then in my relationships I've been able to get really clear on what I want platonically, romantically and my family. I've been able to heal things that before were holding me back and just develop a lot deeper connections that are more fulfilling and satisfying and reciprocal that I was able to have as a drinker and kind of that same conversation that we had before. I didn't know what I was missing until I got it. And I can tell you that I just live a such a full life now that it's really miraculous and beautiful. And I'm just so happy and proud of the life that I've been able to attract to me with alcohol out of the way.
- [47:21]
A
How old were you when you went on this journey?
- [47:24]
B
30. I was just turning 31 when I started. Yeah, so it's still pretty edgy at the time. I think a lot of people don't come to this until their, their early 40s is when they're making these decisions is what I see a lot of.
- [47:35]
A
Yep, for sure. I see women all the time in my clinic who kind of hit that perimenopausal window, and they're like, oh, my gosh. I just, I don't. I can't. I can't do it anymore. Like, I just. I can't. A couple glasses of wine. I sleep horrible. I feel horrible. You know, they're having these hormonal shifts and then they're just like, okay, I'm done. I've kind of lived my, you know, big party, exciting years.
- [47:58]
B
Yes.
- [47:58]
A
But, yeah, to do it in your 30s. And I've seen some people in their 20s even experimenting with it. I think it's just, you know, fantastic that we're seeing younger and younger people realizing how much it, you know, takes away from their life. Than. Than ads.
- [48:11]
B
Yes, absolutely.
- [48:12]
A
Yeah. Okay. Anything. Any tell people where they can find your book and find you and follow you, your socials and things like that.
- [48:20]
B
Yeah, absolutely. I am all over the Internet at amandakuda. That's K U D A. And my book Unbottled Potential is on Amazon. I'd love if you check it out. And for your listeners, Dr. Jamie, I have a 21 day challenge that usually you have to buy the book in order to get. And if they just want to use instead of a coupon code for the book so you can check it out beforehand and see if it's a good fit for you, they can use code, Dr. Jamie. And put it in the coupon code or the receipt code box. And I'll give that 21 day challenge to any of your listeners for free so they can check out what it might feel like to have some mindset shifts around alcohol.
- [48:56]
A
Amazing. Okay, well, maybe when we release this podcast, we'll do a 21 day challenge on social media and you guys can join that. We can all do it together. Yeah, that'd be really fun. That'd be really fun. 21 days. Everybody can do 21 days. Come on, you guys. And I think honestly, we're releasing this podcast, Real, you know, close to the holidays. Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's, and of course, international holiday. My birthday on January 3rd. I'm turning 40. So thank you there. I think there's no better time than the holidays to do it because you are going to get so many opportunities over the holidays to experience it. And come on, it's like the easiest way to just avoid the alcohol, avoid the calories. Most of us feel like crap when we do it anyway, so you guys stay tuned for that. Okay, so just to wrap this up, Amanda, thank you for being so authentic and vulnerable. Have your family and friends have have people jumped on with you since you've done this?
- [49:52]
B
For sure, yeah. You know, my. I. My family has. It wasn't really big drinkers before. We had some alcoholism in the family, so that, you know, took care. It was another. A whole nother conversation. But with my friendships. Yeah. And most of my friends don't drink or are very light drinkers if they do. And that's been a really fortunate thing as well that I've been able to shift that focus of my life, too.
- [50:14]
A
So just to wrap up, you guys, we haven't done the semen analysis in a long time, but we used to finish up the podcast with that. So I just want to talk one last thing about alcohol. When you think about longevity, you know, I kept saying this is a net negative when you think about longevity. We're basically born with a certain genetic potential for how long we're going to live and how our life is. Everything is basically a minus. So even, you know, the foods we eat, how much we're exercising, whether we are or not, you know, drinking alcohol, basically these things can help us re. Reach that max potential. But there are behaviors like consistent alcohol use, which is just a minus. So we have our established genetic potential at birth, and then it's how our parents raised us, where we lived, you know, our water quality, how we lived. So our food, our exercise, those same and then incidents. Right. You know, like, obviously a car accident could quickly end your life or, you know, not some of these chronic behaviors. And that's basically what equals longevity. So, you know, if you were born with a certain genetic potential to live to be 100 years old, and then, you know, your. Your parents weren't perfect, so that took a couple years off. And then you went to college and you did a few things, and that took a couple years off. That's how you have to think about it. You know, do you want to just continue to drink alcohol and take some years off your life and some quality off your life if you think it adds a lot, or do you want to discover what life is like without it and maybe a few extra years and a few more quality years and more deep, meaningful human connections? Because I think that's been the biggest takeaway for me is it's just, it's changed the way that I connect with humans on such a deeper, deeper level. And hey, this opportunity right here, Amanda, to sit here and talk with you and share so many cool things with so many people. And I know, I know for sure a fact, one person is going to listen to this podcast and decide to try this for themselves and probably many more. So thank you.
- [52:03]
B
I hope so. Thank you. I'm so glad we had got to have this conversation today.
- [52:09]
A
All right, you guys, thank you for listening. Please share this, send it to your girlfriends and your boyfriends and your grandmas and your aunts and uncles and whoever you think might get something out of this. We appreciate you guys for listening. Always leave your comments and subscribe and we will catch you on the next episode.