544: Foundr’s BEST of 2024: Hear From The World's Greatest Entrepreneurs [VIDEO]

Summary

**The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan: Episode 544 Summary
Title: Foundr’s BEST of 2024: Hear From The World's Greatest Entrepreneurs [VIDEO]
Release Date: December 27, 2024

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Introduction

In this special year-end episode of The Foundr Podcast, host Nathan Chan reflects on the whirlwind of entrepreneurship in 2024 and shares invaluable insights from some of the world's most renowned entrepreneurs. This episode serves as a comprehensive recap, offering lessons, strategies, and inspirational stories to propel founders into a prosperous 2025.

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1. Eric Litke on Collaborating with Kanye West and Adidas Innovation

Key Discussion Points: Eric Litke delves into his experience partnering with Kanye West, highlighting how the collaboration redefined Adidas’s approach to innovation and creativity. He discusses the challenges of working with a visionary like Kanye, whose relentless pursuit of excellence pushed the entire company to new heights.

Notable Quotes:

• Eric Litke [02:08]: “You’ve got to always look at these partnerships from a win-win perspective and be prepared for the goalpost to move quite consistently.”
• Eric Litke [05:07]: “Kanye taught us a lot about how to create and never compromise. His attention to detail and ability to redefine what’s next were truly inspiring.”

Insights:

• Commitment to Accessibility: Litke emphasizes the importance of being accessible to creative partners to foster meaningful collaboration.
• Balancing Vision and Practicality: While Kanye’s visionary approach was inspiring, it also presented challenges, particularly in maintaining team morale and managing expectations.

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2. Alison Ellsworth on Poppy’s Super Bowl Ad Debut

Key Discussion Points: Alison Ellsworth narrates the creative journey behind Poppy’s Super Bowl advertisement. Starting as a simple creative idea, it evolved into a last-minute opportunity that significantly boosted the brand’s visibility and tripled its awareness overnight.

Notable Quotes:

• Alison Ellsworth [09:55]: “We created this battle-hardened, anthemic piece that just resonated because it wasn’t celebrity-driven. It was authentic Poppy.”
• Alison Ellsworth [12:32]: “Our Super Bowl ad wasn’t just about exposure; it was about connecting with our community in a profound way.”

Insights:

• Last-Minute Opportunities: Poppy’s ability to seize a late advertising slot demonstrates agility and preparedness.
• Authentic Branding: By focusing on genuine brand values rather than celebrity endorsements, the ad resonated deeply with the audience.

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3. Noah Kagan on Taking Action and Founder Success Traits

Key Discussion Points: Noah Kagan highlights the essential trait that separates successful founders: the ability to take decisive action. He advises testing ideas without substantial capital and underscores the significance of directly engaging with customers to validate demand.

Notable Quotes:

• Noah Kagan [12:49]: “The difference between someone at zero and a millionaire is that they started and used capital as an excuse to do the hard part.”
• Noah Kagan [17:20]: “Speak directly to customers because they are the ones who want to help you the most.”

Insights:

• Lean Startup Approach: Kagan advocates for minimal investment in the initial stages, focusing instead on customer validation.
• Overcoming Fear of Rejection: He stresses the importance of overcoming the fear of rejection by engaging with friends and community members first.

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4. Shay Mitchell on the Base Wash Pop-Up Experience

Key Discussion Points: Shay Mitchell shares the innovative concept behind the Base Wash pop-up event. Responding to customer feedback about light-colored luggage getting dirty, her team created a unique car wash experience to demonstrate the brand’s commitment to customer satisfaction.

Notable Quotes:

• Shay Mitchell [19:28]: “We wanted to create an experience that wasn’t just a store atmosphere but something memorable that showed we go the extra mile.”
• Shay Mitchell [24:15]: “Cleaning their bags was our way of giving back to our customers, showing appreciation regardless of a purchase.”

Insights:

• Turning Feedback into Opportunity: The Base Wash pop-up turned a common customer complaint into a unique brand experience.
• Engaging Customer Interaction: By providing a direct service, the brand strengthened its relationship with customers and enhanced brand loyalty.

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5. Alicia Scott on Rebranding from Skinny Dip Cosmetics to Range Beauty

Key Discussion Points: Alicia Scott opens up about the trademark dispute that forced her to change her brand name from Skinny Dip Cosmetics to Range Beauty. Despite the initial setback, Scott views the experience as a blessing in disguise, leading to a stronger brand identity focused on inclusivity and addressing deeper skin tones.

Notable Quotes:

• Alicia Scott [24:36]: “Receiving the cease and desist was terrifying, but it pushed us to rebrand into something that truly represents our mission.”
• Alicia Scott [29:11]: “Range Beauty wasn’t just a name change; it was a transformation in how we communicate with our community.”

Insights:

• Resilience in Entrepreneurship: Scott’s ability to pivot showcases the resilience required to navigate legal and branding challenges.
• Enhancing Brand Purpose: The rebranding allowed for a more focused mission on serving diverse skin tones, aligning the brand’s identity with its core values.

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6. Guy Kawasaki on Lessons from Working with Steve Jobs

Key Discussion Points: Guy Kawasaki reflects on his tenure working with Steve Jobs, sharing a pivotal moment where he candidly critiqued a product. This experience taught him the importance of honesty, preparedness, and distinguishing between mission-driven and egocentric leadership.

Notable Quotes:

• Guy Kawasaki [31:24]: “Steve set me up to be brutally honest, and it taught me the value of preparedness and integrity in leadership.”
• Guy Kawasaki [33:05]: “Mission-driven leadership focuses on creating great products and serving customers, transcending personal ego.”

Insights:

• Honesty and Integrity: Kawasaki emphasizes that transparent and honest communication is crucial, even in high-pressure environments.
• Mission Over Ego: The distinction between mission-driven and egocentric leadership highlights the importance of prioritizing the company’s mission over personal recognition.

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7. Raquel and Adam Buris on Being Catfished by a Fake Perfumer

Key Discussion Points: Raquel and Adam Buris recount their harrowing experience of being deceived by a fake perfumer who posed as their legitimate manufacturer. Over nearly two years, they faced fraudulent contracts, inflated prices, and ultimately uncovered the truth that their supplier was not the real perfumer.

Notable Quotes:

• Raquel Buris [34:32]: “He was deceitful about everything, from the IP rights to the actual creation process, and it took us years to uncover the truth.”
• Adam Buris [38:37]: “We had to stay patient and persistent, ultimately finding a trustworthy perfumer who matched our scent profiles perfectly.”

Insights:

• Due Diligence: The importance of thoroughly vetting suppliers to prevent fraud and ensure product quality.
• Resilience and Persistence: Overcoming deceitful partnerships requires patience and unwavering commitment to the brand’s integrity.

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8. Ezra Firestone on Navigating Business Ups and Downs

Key Discussion Points: Ezra Firestone shares his personal philosophy on managing the inevitable ups and downs in business. He emphasizes the importance of consistency, maintaining a positive attitude, and adhering to three core rules for success: having fun, making good products, and ensuring profitability.

Notable Quotes:

• Ezra Firestone [39:22]: “Consistency is the only reason I’ve been able to sustain and grow my businesses over time.”
• Ezra Firestone [43:04]: “Making truly good things that serve your community and being profitable is the essence of winning in business.”

Insights:

• Embracing Mistakes: Viewing failures and mistakes as learning opportunities rather than setbacks.
• Work-Life Balance: Prioritizing personal well-being to sustain long-term business success.
• Core Business Principles: Focusing on enjoyable work, quality products, and profitability as foundational pillars.

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9. Will Guidera on Unreasonable Hospitality

Key Discussion Points: Will Guidera narrates an unforgettable experience at 11 Madison Park, where he went above and beyond to fulfill a customer’s simple request for a New York street hot dog. This act of "unreasonable hospitality" transformed a fine dining experience into something uniquely memorable.

Notable Quotes:

• Will Guidera [43:26]: “Unreasonable hospitality is about creating one-of-a-kind experiences that make customers feel truly seen and valued.”
• Will Guidera [45:46]: “It’s not about one-size-fits-all; it’s about tailoring experiences to each individual.”

Insights:

• Personalized Service: Going beyond standard service offerings to create unique and personalized customer experiences.
• Flexibility and Creativity: The ability to adapt and think creatively to meet and exceed customer expectations.

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Conclusion

In this episode, The Foundr Podcast encapsulates a year of entrepreneurial triumphs, challenges, and invaluable lessons from industry leaders. From navigating high-profile collaborations and innovative marketing strategies to overcoming fraudulent partnerships and embracing mission-driven leadership, listeners are equipped with the knowledge and inspiration to make 2025 their most successful year yet.

Final Thoughts from Nathan Chan [46:48]:
“Founder wouldn’t be where it is today without the energy and support of this incredible community of entrepreneurs. Here’s to making 2025 the year we push beyond our boundaries, take risks, and create something truly remarkable.”

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Key Takeaways:

• Adaptability: Embrace change and turn challenges into opportunities.
• Authenticity: Maintain genuine connections with customers and stakeholders.
• Resilience: Persist through setbacks with a positive attitude and unwavering focus.
• Innovation: Continuously strive to innovate and improve, staying ahead in a competitive landscape.

For entrepreneurs seeking to accelerate their growth and future, this episode offers a treasure trove of insights and actionable strategies from some of the most successful minds in the industry.

Transcript

[Nathan Chan]

Hey, guys. Welcome back to a special episode of the Founder Podcast as we say goodbye to 2024 and gear up for an even bigger 2025. Looking back, 2024 has been nothing short of a whirlwind. We've seen innovation accelerate at a rapid, unprecedented pace. AI is transforming industries, market dynamics have been unpredictable, and founders everywhere are navigating through this exciting yet challenging landscape. As founders, we're always chasing the next big goal, the next big breakthrough, the next big milestone. But before we plunge into 2025, I want to remind you to pause, reflect on how far you've come, take a deep breath, recharge, and acknowledge your journey. To help you gear up for what's next, we've pulled together some of our best lessons, insights and stories and strategies from 2024. Throughout the year, we've had the privilege of speaking with industry disruptors, seasoned entrepreneurs and founders and visionary leaders who've really shared their hard earned wisdom. And these conversations have been jam packed with practical tips, game changing strategies that we can all apply to 2025. So sit back and enjoy this recap of this year's most valuable insights and let it fuel your ambition and inspire inspire you to make 2025 your best year yet for you and your business.

[Noah Kagan]

Hear the stories, learn the proven methods.

[Alison Ellsworth]

And accelerate your growth and future through entrepreneurship.

[Noah Kagan]

Welcome to the Founder Podcast with Nathan Chan.

[Nathan Chan]

So up first, we have Eric Litke sharing his experience collaborating with Kanye west and how their partnership really reshaped Adidas approach to innovation and creativity. Eric dives into the challenges and rewards of closely working with a visionary like Kanye, who really pushed the boundaries and demanded a level of attention that transformed not just the Yeezy brand, but the entire company's mindset on what's possible through collaboration.

[Eric Litke]

I think, listen, I mean, there's, there's a lot of stories of working with partners, and I think partners are critical. And whether it be Lionel Messi or whether it be Kanye west, you know, whether it be partly for the oceans, they're all unique little subsets and require a different approach. I think what I, what I would say is from a story standpoint is, you know, you, you've got to always look at these partnerships from a win, win perspective and you've got to be able to say, okay, what is going to, what does winning look like for you? And you know, and you have to be prepared for that, for that goalpost to move quite consistently. And yeah, Kanye, Kanye, Kanye demanded a certain level of attention which, which I was happy to provide that with. And so he didn't like being delegated down into the organization to do stuff. He's a creator, he's a maker, he's a thinker, he's a doer. He required the highest level of. Of. Of attention. So usually he would seek me out on a Sunday evening in. In German time when he was getting up. So it typically be around Sunday dinner time. You know, you're settling down okay. You're getting ready for the work week. And the phone would ring, and my wife would look at me and I'd look at her, and she'd be like, it's Kanye, isn't it? I'd be like, yeah, I'll be outside for another hour or so. So, you know, he wanted to talk. And I think that's. That's part of the commitment you need to make to doing these. These big brand partnerships is giving yourself accessibility to, you know, to. To these. To these individuals because they need to be heard. And you need to be going into that as a. As a. As an opportunity to be heard. And some people say, oh, it's Kanye. Like, you're either crazy to talk to that guy because of what he stands for. And this is before all of the. All the, you know, all the horrible things he said come out about, you know, the. The Jewish. The Jewish religion and the people. But I think he. He was always, you know, having things that he wanted to talk about, and they typically, they weren't always the most flattering. So it took a little resolve to. To make yourself accessible to that every Sunday.

[Nathan Chan]

Was that. Was that hard, like, working with him and, and like, did you. Did he burn you out or.

[Eric Litke]

Yeah, I mean, he. He was. He was an interesting. He's a creator, right? So. So to me, he taught us a lot about how to create and how to never compromise and never be done with things and never settle for something that we'd done before. So I think his. His attention to detail, his focus on consumer and his ability to redefine what's next were certainly inspiring. But having said that, he was very, very challenging to work with on a regular basis. For the teams specifically, again, my access to them, my exposure to him was very limited. I was only there as an escalation for him. The teams on the ground. I think he was very challenging with, from a. From a detail standpoint and just from a expectation and sometimes inappropriate behavior.

[Nathan Chan]

Yeah. Wow. There you go. Because the thing is, right, like, if I think of the times and the, you know, the Nike versus Adidas competition and that. That Kind of endless pull for ambassadors to, to build the brand. I truly, you know, standing from a bystander standpoint, the Yeezys were and still are very cool. Right? Like that, that was a, that was a really cool play. And you know, I often think about a brand and what makes a brand cool. Right? And, and that, that particular product behind Adidas, and, and you know, Kanye, that collaboration, that, that was a big move for Adidas and I think it, it was, it was a really solid one. Was that something you said? You really handled the, the collaboration and kind of the in between. Was that, was that your thinking to like, talk me through how that came about and. Yeah, because I think it was a brilliant move in many ways.

[Eric Litke]

Yeah. And I think, I think, listen, it's, it's. I'd love to say I had the vision to, how, to, how to make that everything. It was, but the reality is I did not sign Kanye to the, to the Adidas brand. That was done by my predecessor, Herman Dininger. I, when I was appointed to the board position where I assumed responsibility for that business, the Yeezy business, as well as, you know, the Adidas business in general. You know, I had great people running the business, working on the business, developing the business with him. It started as, you know, very small. It started with, you know, Kanye wearing, you know, the Ultraboost, if you remember that product, and some of our great innovative running product and really highlighting that on the stages that he was, he would present himself on. And then it, you know, then that worked so well that we're like, okay, now let's take the next step. Why don't we give you an opportunity to create some of your own product. And then he would go and he'd come to Herzogenarak in Germany or we were headquartered. He'd work in the atelier shops with the creation people, the designers, the developers, non stop. And we really got to see firsthand, wow, this guy is really a creative force. I mean, just to see how he goes, you know, 24 hours a day, you know, we'd have to rotate people in to work with him from a garment creation standpoint and what have you. And, and he would just like go just like, he'd be, just like, he'd be, you know, making music. I believe in this, learning from him as far as his creation methodology. And then I remember he was the first person that I experienced from a, from a collaboration standpoint that would go to Asia, go to China himself to work in the factory because he wanted to see how things were being made. He wanted to understand how to create things. So there's a lot of richness there to learn from what a collaborator, if you give them the permission, you give them the keys to some of your infrastructure can really do. And so much so that he even sang about it. If you know one of the songs he sang about. All I need was the infrastructure to prove my vision. It's not unlike some of the things I know about his music career. Ultimately we kept doubling down and so then we built a sample room, you know, factory sample room in Calabasas and we had, there was a music studio next door where he could, he could create his music and his product at the same time and he could go back and forth because that's kind of how he was oriented himself. And he was never really finished. And you know, he would again work with teams that we have on the ground there. So it was a, it was a learning experience, to say the least, from my own personal view, you know, and then to be to, to, for things to go so badly so quickly. I wasn't there for the, the end of the easy relationship with Adidas, but I certainly was aware of it and witnessed it and had talked to Kanye enough to know that things were not in a good place for him mentally, as he's self admitted, but also for the things he was saying and the anger and pain he was bringing into the world with. Some of his comments were quite upsetting to myself personally and I know a lot of people that work for Adidas. So it was a story that someday a few of us will have to tell in its entirety because it was challenging, but it also was something I don't want to, I don't want to just dismiss because of some comments he made afterwards or during. I think it was, I think he also taught. Taught a powerful lesson to adidas and the industry on how to create and build things.

[Nathan Chan]

Okay, so up next we have Alison Ellsworth sharing the exciting story behind Poppy's super bowl ad debut. What started as a creative idea evolved into a last minute opportunity that almost didn't happen. With just four days to go, Alison and her team secured a spot right before halftime. And the ad success tripled Poppy's brand awareness overnight.

[Alison Ellsworth]

So we were ready to start running media, linear streaming, cable tv. And so up until that point, we had just created some fun flavor spots that were just all about flavor and bubbles and can and juiciness. And we're like, what is the next evolution of that? So we went into a creative process and Came up with what our super bowl ad was, but we did not make that as a Super bowl ad, which I think is really interesting. It was just a piece of creative that we thought was like an evolution of poppy. We created it, and we started testing it, and it was performing really well. People were connecting with it, and we're like, this is special. Maybe we should throw this up on the Super Bowl. Not a lot of brands can one say that or two actually follow through and do that. I get that. Not a lot of people can wake up and just be like, I'm gonna do a Super Bowl. But we just felt with the brand and our community and the momentum and our growth, it was like our moment in our time. Well, there was a problem. We couldn't quite find a Super bowl ad. They were all sold out. So we started calling around like crazy. I was part of this group, found someone sent emails. We ended up. Anyway, someone called us. Look, hey, we got a super bod for you. This was four days before the Super Bowl. And the thing is, we'd been wanting one for a while. We'd been looking, so we were fully prepared. We had the creative, we had the budget. We were, like, ready to go. It wasn't like we were, like, fumbling trying to get it last minute, but it ended up coming through. Four days for the Super Bowl. But the crazy catch was it was a floater ad. So a lot of people don't know. We didn't have an exact spot. We didn't know when it was going to air, and we just knew that it had to air within the super bowl before the end of the credit. Said, and thank you for watching the Super Bowl. It could have been, like, after. Right. We decided to go for it. No, we did not get a discount. And we were so lucky. It aired one minute before halftime, right before Usher went on. It was, like, the most magical moment where everyone's getting ready, ready to watch, like, you know, the halftime show. And it just really hit home for people because it wasn't celebrity soup, which every soup we'll add has, like, 38 celebrities in it. And it was just this anthemic piece of why we are soda and poppy is soda. I think we said soda 17 times, and it was actually, like, crazy. We counted, and we tripled our awareness overnight. Our household penetration went up. Just the amount of people being like, wow, poppy is soda for the next generation. Just, like, overnight happened.

[Nathan Chan]

All right, now let's hear from Noah Kagan, who highlights one of the best traits that separate successful founders from Everyone else which is taking action. Noah shares candid advice on how he tests ideas without needing capital and why speaking directly to customers is the key to validating demand.

[Noah Kagan]

Coming back to the beginning of Million Dollar Weekend and what I've seen be the difference of success from someone being at a zero person being a millionaire is that they started and what they use as capital is an excuse to actually do the hard part which is see if there's really customers and that how you get a customer is you ask someone to be your customer. The cyber truck. Cyber when's a coming out truck is what it should be called. Right. That was six years from when he pre sold it and validated people wanted it till he actually delivered it. I think the Model 3 was about 10 years and so from when he announced it, full self driving. It's been 12 years and I don't think it's out fully still in beta. This is just one example. And so the reality is how do you see if people actually want something before you go and invest a lot of time or need to get investments. So I built Appsumo without investment. I built my previous million dollar company without investment. And so how do you actually do these things? And really it's not about the capital. And coming back on a side comment, you said, well you know, you guys are maybe tech bros. Like yeah, I was very fortunate to work for Mark Zuckerberg. I was very fortunate to be able to be around Peter Thiel and be around like literally the elite, you know, not whether the separate of politics, just like elite thinkers in business and so be able to learn from them and then be able to apply it and kind of teach it to, you know, I live in Texas to the rest of the world outside of Silicon Valley. And I was talking with Justin Mares, you know, do you know Justin from Kettle and Fire?

[Nathan Chan]

Yeah, he and I have gone up and back on email. That guy's a beast. That's a, that's a big company kettle dude.

[Noah Kagan]

Yeah, yeah, I think it's like a hundred million dollar business selling soup.

[Nathan Chan]

Yeah.

[Noah Kagan]

And I remember asking him because he, he interned at Appsumo.

[Nathan Chan]

Oh really? There you go. Yeah, he's a smart marketer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He hired somebody to work for us.

[Noah Kagan]

Yeah, yeah, he's, he's a really great guy. He lives in Austin as well. And I remember asking him, I said why doing soup? You know, like you're like you're smart. And he's like dude, I don't want to compete against people like you or smarter like, in the soup space. I'm competing against, like, normal people and, you know, someone like him or someone like Larry Janeski. I just did put out a video on the YouTube channel where he. I believe he's a billionaire, if not beyond. He does over $650 million a year doing plumbing and basements.

[Nathan Chan]

Wow.

[Noah Kagan]

And he said for him to win, most of the time, it's that they show up on time and sober. Now I'm competing against, like, Harvard and Stanford, MIT and Caltech competitors. Showing up sober and on time, that's a lot better. And that's just plumbing in basements. And so, you know, one of the businesses I'm most excited about is lawn care and house care because it's universal and it's recurring. You don't do the lawn, the lawn dies. You don't take care of, your pool goes out of water, and the fam's not happy. And so that's a great. If you want Mr. And ar, that's. There's no competition over there. And you could put on, like, send me a text when you come to my house. Otherwise, they just show up and they don't tell me anything, or let me request things via, like, an app, potentially. And you could validate all those businesses yourself, knocking on a few doors, calling your neighbors, asking at church, wherever that is, and find out very quickly if you can get customers to do that. And I don't think you need a lot of investment to. To mow lawns. You sell some customers, you can go even rent one. And that the same goes for tech, if that's also what people want to do, which that's been my whole. That's how I've made all my money. So what I do is tech, but it doesn't mean it's exclusive to how people can get successful. And I think through my YouTube channel especially, I get excited when people are getting rich in weird ways. Like, one of my favorite. I'm still trying to interview this guy, the guy that creates urinals, you know? You know, urinals. He creates a little. The scents, the ones you put on them when you go to the bathroom.

[Nathan Chan]

Yeah.

[Noah Kagan]

There's a brand in America called Echoes. And I'm just like, I want to meet the guy that they're doing urinals. There's just. There's so many ways of getting rich. It's awesome. And it's available to everyone. And I believe truly that where people are and where they can be. Where they are and where they can be is much closer than People realize much, much closer. And you can get rich doing cookies. You can get rich doing this cap, I'm drinking a coconut water, making caps, you know, and there's just so many interesting ways of getting rich. But it's getting started, getting good at asking people for things and then following a process, which is what I laid out to make it available for everyone. And I don't believe you need capital. I don't believe you need a bunch of other co founders. I don't think you need to use AI. You can, you can do all these things, but I don't think you have to. I think you have to find real customers with real problems. And then from there, yeah, we can build these other things that help support that, but most people just do it the other way.

[Nathan Chan]

Yeah, it's so. It's so crazy how it's. It's the most obvious thing just to speak to prospective customers or speak to existing customers, but it's something that people just avoid like the plague.

[Noah Kagan]

Yeah. I can tell you why. It's because they're afraid. It's easier for them to talk to strangers and get rejected than to their friends and feel embarrassed when in the reality, your friends are the ones who want to help you the most. They're the ones who want to want to make you succeed. And one of the best ways to be successful in entrepreneurship is look what assets you already have. Look at what your unfair advantage is. There's a gentleman who works with NBA teams who I met and he wanted to start a newsletter. He's like, I can do health and fitness. I was like, you are an NBA health coach. Write about the NBA. You can't copy that. Or like on YouTube. No one can copy Nathan talking about founder. No one copy Noah talking about AppSumo. Because that's just me. And so, you know, thinking about what do I have an access to? Is it which people? Like, I've been in Silicon Valley, so I kind of knew When I started AppSumo, I was like, well, maybe I can cold email or get referrals to people over time, which I was able to do. I was able to work with Tim Ferriss and work with these different people from just being in that environment. And that's available for everyone. Like, who do you know this guy, that Jake that came here recently, he plays a lot of golf. I don't know. I don't know how to play golf. I just do the driving range and margaritas. Jake plays a lot of golf, a lot of people. He has an advantage there. Or Maybe it's a geographical advantage. Maybe you're in India, maybe you have something in South America, wherever it is. How do you take advantage of that and compete unfairly in these areas? Which is what I encourage people to do. Doesn't mean you can't otherwise. It's just people make it a lot harder on themselves.

[Nathan Chan]

Okay, up next we got Shay Mitchell, who talks about the creative concept behind the base wash pop up. So instead of shying away from customer complaints about the light colored luggage getting dirty, she leaned in and set up a luggage car wash complete with custom scrubbers, bubbles, and drying fans. And it was more than just cleaning bags. It was about showing customers that base goes the extra mile to make things right. So turning a common issue into an unforgettable brand experience.

[Alison Ellsworth]

Pop ups are a really fun one for us because we are majority D2C. It's that time where we can get to be meet our consumer in real life. And I think, you know, we don't have that commitment that we would necessarily have if we were in brick and mortar. And so when we have that pop up, I mean, this one was super short. It was like three days.

[Eric Litke]

Two.

[Alison Ellsworth]

Really, two and a half. Which is crazy because I'm like, that was a lot of work for those two days. But it's fun because we get to like go crazy with our design and think about it. You know, we first started, our first pop up was at the Grove and that was about a month. And it was our base motel. And I wanted to start with motel because I knew that eventually we'd go into a hotel and it was that small little pop up there. And I just, I wanted to be able to create this sort of experience for our consumers who had never seen us in real life. To be able to come in into this curated experience and like get to see the product in a normal setting, like this motel setting. We had a little check in desk. You know, we had a little like at that point it wasn't our hotel yet. So we just had a little waiting area and like a couple shelves, but they could see the product in like a space like that. And that was really fun. And then we moved into the base hotel and there we took it another step further. We had a check in counter, we even had an elevator. And then you went into the room and we had a bed on the side of the wall so you could see like where your product would look in a room if you were traveling. We had, you know, the little cosmetic case in a bathroom that we had. We Even had a patio space. Like, it was really cool because people hadn't seen anything like that. And I didn't want to just create a store atmosphere. I wanted to create and experience again. Because being so heavy on D2C, we never get that opportunity to see people in real life and to bring an experience. And then with the base wash, that was an idea that came because we were launching this new color, our clean slate collection. Clean Slate, top of the year, Fresh start. Our campaign that we had actually shot in November for, It was like this car wash, cleaning the luggage. It was this cool. I see blue color, and the whole thing was just, like, fresh bubbles, all of that. And then I had kind of seen some tick tocks on social people being like, I got this color, and it got dirty, you know, and my suitcase has, you know, a couple stains on it. And I'm like, okay. You know, on one hand, I'm like, oh, man. Does Nike feel this way when people, like, get their Air Force ones dirty? You know, do people get, like, mad at Nike? I don't know. When you got the bag, it was brand new. It was clean. I can't control what happens to it when people are hugging it down the thing into that airplane, but they still come for me. And at one point, I'm like, okay, let's just hone it in. I get really sensitive about it because Bass is truly, like, my first child. It's my company. I put everything into it. So of course, I feel it more. I don't care when people speak about me, but when you speak about the brand and my baby, I'm like, oh. So anyways, bringing it back, I was like, okay. People are saying that this and the lighter color luggage obviously are getting dirtier. Let's create this experience where we can do, like, a service for them and we can clean up their bags. And this is all about fresh bag, fresh new year, clean slate, you know, let's have this sort of base wash, car wash vibe. And from there, it was just like, boom. I visited so many car washes. I pulled so many revs. I knew that I wanted an old coffee machine in there. I wanted a water station. I wanted buckets everywhere. I wanted sponges. You know, we partnered with Scrub Daddy, and they came out with, like, our own little suitcase scrubbers, you know, and then this wall. I wanted to use their material to create. Create our base logo that then had, like, drying sort of fans. You know, like, when you're going through that car, washing it fans off your car, I wanted that for the little photo op, and I want bubbles and all of this stuff. And it's just such a fun way to play for us because I'm like, oh, we get to have them come in to our experience and create this whole vibe for our consumers. And the cleaning of their bags, you know, was just sort of like our give back to them for just being awesome. Whether you bought something or not, if you had a base bag, we would clean it for you. And, yeah, I wanted to do that. I also, though, am the complete opposite. I love when my bags are all batted up, and I love stickers that are, like, taken off of them. I want it to look travel, just like I want my passport to be, like, full of stamps. I feel that way about my suitcase, but not everybody does. So for those people who don't, we cleaned it up for them.

[Nathan Chan]

All right, up next, we've got Alicia Scott, who shares the story behind her brand's name change and how a trademark dispute turned into a blessing in disguise. So she opens up about launching under the name Skinny Dip Cosmetics, receiving a cease and desist letter shortly after, and really how that experience led to the birth of range beauty.

[Alison Ellsworth]

It's funny because initially the entire theme, the name, was completely different. So we were originally called Skinny Dip Cosmetics because I loved the idea, like skinny dipping, you're. You're at your freest moment, right? And so that's how I wanted you to feel. Even though it's makeup, I still wanted you to feel free. I wanted your skin to feel free as if you weren't wearing anything like skinny dipping. And so that was our initial name. And, you know, we were very quote, unquote girly, so lots of pinks and glittery and all of that. And our first initial order came under that name, and it came when we added our website to our social media. So I had a landing page with a wait list. And so once the the page went live, those people who were on the waitlist were notified. And so. And we were also hosted on Squarespace initially. So our first order came through Squarespace and we operated under Skate, if I believe I was. I maintained it live for a month before I was sent a cease and desist by what's called Skinny Dip. It's a company out of London, and they actually started off with phone accessories, and then they went into fashion, I believe. And then they launched their own makeup line. And they emailed me and my little self. They emailed me and said, hey, you're infringing on our trademark so we can go to court or you can shut down. And I was, oh, my gosh, like, I'm so small, I didn't even. It's fine. So I shut down. And that's what led me back to the drawing board and how range was actually born.

[Nathan Chan]

So this is an interesting experience because I had something similar happen to me in the early days. Founder. So when I started, Founder wasn't called Founder, it was called Key to Success magazine. And we were sued by a big business magazine out of the states, one of the biggest ones. And for trademark infringement, they didn't send us a cease and desist, though they lodged, you know, proceedings. So I got a FedEx package basically saying that I needed to appear in Dallas, Texas on this date for trademark infringement. And this was the first four months of starting Founder. And I remember waking up in the morning and receiving that letter and being like, oh my God. And just like, was so scared. And I'm like. I remember speaking to my mentor at the time and I said, he's like. I said, I'm so scared. And he's like, what do you like? He's like, do you have any money? And I was like. I was like, no. And he's like, well, because I was scared I was going to go bankrupt. And he's like, well, you have any money? And I was like, no. And he's like, well, what does it matter then? And yeah, he's like, it's a scary feeling, right?

[Alison Ellsworth]

It was scary because I remember getting it and I do recall ignoring it at first because I'm like, that's. No. And back then I did, obviously it was my error. Not, you know, I filed for my llc, but I didn't look up to see, okay, is this trademark? And then I was thinking, well, I spell it this way and you spell it that way and I'm doing this and you're. So then I can't be infringing. And they repeatedly, they kept sending emails and said, okay, we can take this to court. And. And I remember I sent off an email like, you know, I'm a small business. I just, I'm just getting started, you know, for you to come at me this way. But, you know, it was fine. I think I was fortunate where at the time I was hand labeling bottles. So I didn't do a run where, let's say I had bottles printed with the name, but at the time I did have boxes, I had outer packaging with the name that just went to waste. Obviously the website, our social media, like going through the process of changing Everything. But it was scary and at the same time it made me feel, am I doing something that landed me on your radar enough where I have barely launched our. So at the time, our social media was very much buzzing, I will say. But it was, it did give me that little. What did I do that would land my small brand on your large. Because that they were sold in Topshop, they were sold, you know, in all these different stores in the US as well as their UK presence. But it did make me feel like, okay, I have. There must be something that you feel a little threatened by maybe. So.

[Nathan Chan]

Yeah, no, that's awesome. And I don't know about you, but my experience was it was a blessing in disguise because then that's how I got the name founder, right.

[Alison Ellsworth]

Mm, exactly. It was absolutely a blessing disguise because even at the time, our tagline was clean beauty for the forgotten shades. And I was nervous to really push our story of being for acne and eczema prone skin because, you know, we're in an industry where flawless skin is pushed and we're in an industry where conventionally pretty is pushed. And so even though it was our benefit and everything, I was just like, oh, let's focus on being clean beauty. Let's focus on saying we prioritize deeper skin tones. But it absolutely was a blessing in disguise because range beauty, like coming up with that name, the whole rebrand that we did like our packaging now and our branding now and our messaging now. We needed that to happen.

[Nathan Chan]

Yeah. It's such a great story. Thank you for sharing. Just lastly on that, did you like, did it. Did you ever think about giving up when all of that happened?

[Alison Ellsworth]

No, I think that was another blessing was that, you know, God Forbid I was 5 years in under skinny dip and they sent me that, you know, for them to send it. And I honest, like I say, I believe it was one to two months. It was very shortly after we launched. And even though I was upset about the waste of money again on the outer packaging and things like that, it wasn't a large run though. So it wasn't. Oh, my gosh. I have thousands and thousands and thousands of things with Skinny Dip on it that I now have to discard, it was definitely still like, ah, I hate that I had to waste my money and I can't use these things. But for it to be so early on, that was where I was fortunate.

[Nathan Chan]

All right, up next we have our man, Guy Kawasaki, reflecting on his time working with Steve Jobs. He shares a crazy, fascinating story about being put on the spot by Jobs and the critical lesson that he learned about honesty, preparedness, and the difference between mission driven and egocentric leadership. One day I'm in my cube and.

[Noah Kagan]

Steve Jobs shows up with this stranger and he asked me what I thought of this product.

[Eric Litke]

And I told him, you know, Steve.

[Noah Kagan]

It'S a mediocre product. Mediocre user interface doesn't really take advantage.

[Nathan Chan]

Of the Macintosh graphics and capabilities.

[Noah Kagan]

And I just basically ripped on the product and the company. And after that, he turns and he says to me, I want you to meet the CEO of the company. So let's just say Steve completely set me up.

[Eric Litke]

But there's a lot to learn from that story.

[Noah Kagan]

So number one is you better be well informed when you work for someone like Steve, because I guarantee you that he probably thought that that product and company was crap too. And so if you had said it was great, Steve might have fired me on the spot, you know, because it.

[Nathan Chan]

Would mean that I was stupid and.

[Eric Litke]

He did not tolerate stupidity. So you should be thorough and you.

[Noah Kagan]

Should be prepared and you should also be honest, because if you had tried to hedge that answer, you also might have been fired. So, you know, let's just say that when you came to work in the Macintosh division, you had to prove yourself every day. That's what life was like. Now, many people, you know, they've heard.

[Eric Litke]

The stories and seen the movies, etc. And they all think, you know, what an asshole to work for. How terrible. But I'll tell you, I am where.

[Noah Kagan]

I am because of Steve Jobs.

[Nathan Chan]

I don't think I would have progressed.

[Noah Kagan]

In my career nearly as much without that experience.

[Eric Litke]

I've come to look back on the.

[Nathan Chan]

Toughest coaches, toughest bosses, toughest teachers, and I've come to believe they teach you the most.

[Eric Litke]

And, you know, I.

[Noah Kagan]

There's a very important lesson in the categorization of. So there are who are mission driven and they're assholes who are egocentric driven. So the egocentric is all about me, myself. And I, you know, am I not brilliant? Am I not the best? Am I not the greatest? And then there's the mission driven asshole. And the mission driven asshole only cares that you create a great product or service.

[Nathan Chan]

And you, you know, you, you create.

[Noah Kagan]

Customers and you make customers and you please customers, and nothing's going to stand.

[Eric Litke]

In the way of that mission.

[Noah Kagan]

That's the kind of mission driven asshole that Steve Jobs was. He was not the eagle centric mission. He was not the egocentric, he was the mission driven. So all you entrepreneurs out there are listening.

[Nathan Chan]

I'm not saying that you have to be an. But you have to be mission driven. All right, now we have Raquel and Adam Buris, who shared a wild story about being catfished by a fake perfumer who was their manufacturer for nearly two years. From a fake lab set up to deceitful contracts and inflated prices. They recount the moment they realized something was off and how they eventually uncovered the truth.

[Alison Ellsworth]

So I found a perfumer in Sydney quite easily, and we worked with him for, like, probably two and a half to three years. And then I always said to Adam, I don't think he's a perfumer. Like, I don't think he's the perfumer. And I did. I said it for so long. Because he wouldn't give us the IP to the recipe, like, the recipe makeup of the product because we needed it. Because we're trying to. We're registering our products overseas in the UK and Europe. And it's like quite a. Like, a hectic process. And they were asking for, like, the full ip, and I'm like, well, we don't know. We don't own it. Like, it's not ours. And this guy wouldn't give it to us. And he's like. And then I. Then I was like, like, he does. He doesn't own it. Like, otherwise, like the. Because we're like, we'll give you whatever money you want. And he's like, no, no, no. And I'm like, everyone has a price. And then I was like, he mustn't own it. It's not his to give. Then anyway, turns out it. What? He wasn't the perfumer. He was like, the middleman and getting it made by the perfumer who we now work with.

[Nathan Chan]

But his. His middle.

[Alison Ellsworth]

Yeah.

[Nathan Chan]

There's nothing wrong with nothing. Middleman.

[Eric Litke]

Right.

[Nathan Chan]

Because lots of.

[Alison Ellsworth]

Just that he was deceitful about it.

[Nathan Chan]

He had a website that said he had 170 years of history in the fragrance industry, and it was deep to his core of who he was, all of that.

[Alison Ellsworth]

And, you know, he really was believable.

[Nathan Chan]

Believable. And every time we'd meet him, like, it was at a WeWork office or something like that. Nothing wrong with that. But, like, sort of wasn't starting to piece together.

[Alison Ellsworth]

Yeah.

[Nathan Chan]

And then we had a call with him about, like, the next products that were coming. And I looked at the background of the call. I'm like, that's a fake setup.

[Alison Ellsworth]

Yeah.

[Nathan Chan]

Like, he had, like a.

[Alison Ellsworth]

Like he had a lab coat on.

[Nathan Chan]

The girl had A lab coat on, and she was walking around this, like, circle table with, like, product displayed all over it. I'm like. Because we started thinking about, like, this is not right.

[Eric Litke]

And then I'm, like, looking, like, pausing the video.

[Nathan Chan]

I'm like, this is bullshit.

[Alison Ellsworth]

Yeah.

[Nathan Chan]

So we got off the call, and we're like, something's fully up with this. And then obviously, we get lots of people reach out to us, you know, throughout the process, once they see the brand, like, suppliers, like, we want to make your fragrance. We want to make you fragrance, and.

[Eric Litke]

You never want to sort of disrupt that product because it's fragrance.

[Nathan Chan]

And it's so, like, you know, important that it stays the same all the time. So we say no to all these people that reach out all the time. And then one guy just was very persistent, and he sent an email, he sent a DM to Raquel's personal page once. And he said at the time, we're having a pro. Having a problem on quality control with Nomad, our best seller. And he messaged Rico and said, I know what's wrong with Nomad.

[Alison Ellsworth]

I'm like, obviously, no one knows.

[Eric Litke]

Can you please call me?

[Nathan Chan]

I need to speak to you guys. And we were like.

[Alison Ellsworth]

I was in a meeting, and I said, I stopped the minigame. Adam. This guy makes that perfume. I know it. And he did. I called him. I was on the phone to him, and he told me everything. Like, our other perfume. I nearly said his name. Our other fake perfumer, like, because we would get emails from, like, Sylvia, Amanda, like, all these different people. They were all him. Just on fake emails. Yeah. So it was just him and his life, and he was, like, charging us, like, triple the price.

[Nathan Chan]

Yeah.

[Alison Ellsworth]

Actually, now that I talk about it, it's very angry.

[Nathan Chan]

Yeah. He was dictating, like, payment terms and things with us, even though those terms weren't what he was being provided by our now perfume.

[Alison Ellsworth]

Yeah, we had to pay up.

[Nathan Chan]

Every time we.

[Eric Litke]

Every time we would launch a new.

[Nathan Chan]

Product, he would say, it's just more expensive because it's a new product, even though it wouldn't need to be. And he would say, I've got to source ingredients from Dubai and from all of these magical places around the world.

[Eric Litke]

That just didn't simply exist.

[Nathan Chan]

So for the first two years of who's Elijah?

[Alison Ellsworth]

Catfished.

[Nathan Chan]

We were catfished by our supplier. And the product was still good because it was getting made from the good person, the good guy. But just the way it was being filtered into us, like, it. The payment terms were terrible.

[Eric Litke]

He was hard to work with.

[Nathan Chan]

I had to just be super patient and just be like, well, this is our product. I'm just going to have to deal with this guy because I don't want to stop it now.

[Alison Ellsworth]

Yeah.

[Nathan Chan]

And.

[Alison Ellsworth]

But we had started looking at different perfumers, and we're sending our perfumes to people to, like, try and see if they could match it to get the same scent. And no one could, but thank God for Brad. And Brad's, like, such an awesome dude to work with, isn't he? And now perfume, he's great, but, yeah, that was kind of. That was a lot.

[Nathan Chan]

Yeah, that's how. That's how it happened. All right, up next, we've got Ezra Firestone. He shares his personal philosophy on navigating the ups and downs of business. He opens up about the mistakes he's made, plus the importance of staying consistent and his three rules for success.

[Noah Kagan]

Yeah, I mean, look, you know, you make mistakes, right? Like, I've. I've had to scrap a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of inventory I've had. You know, I've made plenty of mistakes. And ultimately, the interesting thing about business is you will be humbled by it, and things will go wrong and you will fail. And as you scale, things are constantly going wrong while they're going right. And so it's like how you, as an entrepreneur or business owner, navigate the experience of failure and the experience of making mistakes. And then if you torture yourself and beat yourself up about the mistakes, then you're not in a. Like, if you're. If you're trying to fix a mistake in a mistake mindset, you're not going to be successful. And so learning to, like, accept that as part of this, you make mistakes, you fail, things go wrong. And your job is to show up every day with a positive attitude and do the best you can and take the next step in the direction of your goals. And if you just do that, if you keep positive and keep moving and do the next. Next thing that you can do, you will be successful. Because it turns out it is a longevity game. It is a marathon. And, you know, you and I have been in this industry a long time. How many people have we seen burnout go under, you know, give up before the miracle? It's like you just have to keep at it. And so I think outside of specifics, what I've done is I've stayed consistent. And it is the only reason. I mean, I'm. Again, I don't think I'm any smarter, any better than anyone. I just do the fundamentals and I do them consistently. And one of the other things I will say is I have three rules in business. Okay? First one, have fun. What does that mean? Right? It doesn't mean be frivolous and do stupid things. It means take care of yourself. Mentally, emotionally, spiritually, physically, energetically, have hobbies, have relationships, have things outside of business. So that when you show up to your business, you can have a positive attitude, you can bring the enthusiasm and you can enjoy yourself. Because if you're miserable, you. Look, my daughter died nine months ago. Like you, you, you are going to miss the point of this game that we call life if you're just not having a good time. So. And by the way, if you're having a good time, it's compelling and people want to come hang out with you and they want to like, be with you. So number one, have a good time. Number two, make truly good things that serve the world, that serve your community and never stop improving them. So make good stuff. Number three, be profitable, have fun, make good things and be profitable. And if you can do that at any scale, any scale, $50,000 a year, $500,000 a year, $5 million a year, you have won the game that we call business. And I cannot tell you the number of people that I see that are overworked and under fucked and shackled to these businesses that they don't like. And we're making tons of money, but you don't want their life. And so I think for new people, you got to remember it's about the journey. You're doing this because you are chasing some form of freedom. Freedom of time, freedom of location, running away from the pain of a shitty job that you hate, wanting to take care of your parents. You know, these are all things that I experience, right? The reason I became an entrepreneur and the way that you achieve that freedom is. And the other thing about this is there is no amount of, of consuming, there's no amount of money you're going to make. There's no amount of, there's nothing that will change things for you if you cannot have it here and now. If you cannot enjoy your life, have fun, have gratitude, have presence, have pleasure, find enjoyment here and now. You won't get it there. And then nothing will change for you because wherever you go, there you are. I went from being on the lower end of the economic spectrum growing up very poor, to now being one of the wealthier people I know. And I can tell you, money doesn't give you happiness, it buys you Comfort. It's nice to be comfortable, but after about, let's call it, 200 grand a year, it's not doing anything else for your mental health and your enjoyment of your world. So the key is, enjoy your life now, and if you can do that, you'll be way more successful.

[Nathan Chan]

All right. And finally, we have Will Guidera, who shares a story that captures his philosophy of unreasonable hospitality. He recounts a moment at 11 Madison park, where he really went above and beyond to fulfill a simple request for your New York street hot dog, transforming a fine dining experience into something truly unforgettable.

[Noah Kagan]

I found myself in the dining room on a busier than normal lunch service.

[Alison Ellsworth]

And I was helping out the team, and I found myself clearing appetizers from.

[Noah Kagan]

A table of four. There were Europeans on vacation to New York just to eat at restaurants. In fact, this was their last meal. They were going to the airport to.

[Alison Ellsworth]

Head back home straight afterwards.

[Noah Kagan]

And they'd been to the best restaurants in New York. They've been to, like, Danielle and Le Bernardin and Jean Georges and Per se, and now 11 Madison.

[Alison Ellsworth]

But then one woman jumped in and.

[Noah Kagan]

Said, yeah, you know what, though?

[Alison Ellsworth]

We never had a hot dog from.

[Noah Kagan]

One of the street carts. And it was like one of those light bulb moments from a cartoon where.

[Alison Ellsworth]

You know, the character has a good idea.

[Noah Kagan]

And so I walked back into the.

[Alison Ellsworth]

Kitchen, dropped off the hot dog or.

[Noah Kagan]

The plates, ran outside, bought a hot.

[Alison Ellsworth]

Dog, ran back inside.

[Noah Kagan]

Then came the hard part, which was convincing my fancy chef to serve it.

[Alison Ellsworth]

In our fancy restaurant.

[Noah Kagan]

But I got him, too.

[Alison Ellsworth]

And we cut the hot dog up.

[Noah Kagan]

Into four perfect pieces, added a little swish of ketchup and a swish of mustard, a little sauerkraut relish. And before their final savory course, which at the time was a honey lavender glazed muscovy duck that had been dry aged for two weeks, I brought out what we in New York call a dirty water dog and explained it. I said, hey, I want to make.

[Alison Ellsworth]

Sure you don't go home with any culinary regrets.

[Noah Kagan]

Here's your New York City hot dog. And I'd never seen anyone react to anything I'd served them the way that.

[Alison Ellsworth]

They reacted to that.

[Noah Kagan]

Athletes always go to the tapes and.

[Alison Ellsworth]

They'Ve had a bad game to see what they did wrong.

[Noah Kagan]

They don't often enough go to the tapes. They've had a good game to see what they did well, to make sure they keep on doing that thing. And so I did with the hot dog.

[Alison Ellsworth]

And it required three things.

[Noah Kagan]

I needed to be present, basically stop thinking about everything else I needed to do and fully focus them. Those people, I needed to, yes, take what I did seriously, but also stop taking myself so seriously. Like, too many companies are so focused.

[Alison Ellsworth]

On their brand that they don't do.

[Noah Kagan]

Things that feel off brand. But sometimes it's the off brand things that will bring your stakeholders the most joy. And three, the whole thing recognized that.

[Alison Ellsworth]

With unreasonable hospitality, it's not about creating.

[Noah Kagan]

One size fits all experiences.

[Alison Ellsworth]

What made that special was that it was one size fits one.

[Noah Kagan]

And in those three things, we now had our roadmap and our trajectory from that point forward. Yeah, we were excellent and our food.

[Alison Ellsworth]

Was best in class and our service.

[Noah Kagan]

Was as close to technically perfect and all of that. But we became number one because we made the choice to be as unreasonable in pursuit of how we made people.

[Alison Ellsworth]

Feel as every other restaurant on the.

[Noah Kagan]

List was in pursuit of simply the food they were serving. And so our journey was a ton of trial and error around investing as much intention and creativity into making people feel seen as we had historically into the product we were selling them.

[Nathan Chan]

All right, so before we wrap up, I can't let this moment pass without thanking you, our incredible community. Whether you've been listening, watching or reading along with us, you're the reason we do this. Founder wouldn't be where it is today without the energy and support of this incredible community of entrepreneurs. So here's to making 2025 the year we push beyond our boundaries, take risks and create something truly remarkable. I can't wait to see where your journey takes you and I'll be right here cheering you on every step of the way. Thanks for tuning in and I'll see you soon. If you love this episode, make sure to check out my interview with Emma Greed on how solving a problem she was so passionate about led to the creation of Skims and Good American.

[Alison Ellsworth]

And so I do think it's so much of it starts with, like, addressing.

[Nathan Chan]

Things that bother you that you find.

[Alison Ellsworth]

You know, you've got to create a.

[Nathan Chan]

Solution for because, you know, at the end of the day, you've got to.

[Alison Ellsworth]

Be passionate enough and sometimes crazy enough to go round and round and round to actually solve a problem.