547: In Retrospect - Building a $200M Selling Swimwear | Erin Deering

Summary

Summary of Episode 547: In Retrospect - Building a $200M Selling Swimwear | Erin Deering

Introduction

In Episode 547 of The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan, Erin Deering, the co-founder of the globally acclaimed swimwear brand Triangle, shares her remarkable journey from a spontaneous idea on a Melbourne beach to building a $200 million brand worn by celebrities like Kendall Jenner and Hailey Bieber. Erin delves into identifying market gaps, leveraging influencer marketing, overcoming significant challenges, and navigating personal struggles associated with entrepreneurial success.

Founding Triangle: From Idea to Launch

Erin recounts the inception of Triangle in 2011 on a Melbourne beach. During a spontaneous conversation with her then-partner Craig Deering after struggling to find a suitable bikini for a second date, they identified a gap between surf brands and higher-priced options.

Erin Deering [02:13]: "Triangle was pretty much born that day."

Recognizing the need to fully commit, Erin and Craig made the bold decision to relocate to Hong Kong, positioning themselves closer to the supply chain and removing distractions to focus entirely on building their brand.

Erin Deering [04:16]: "We knew we couldn't go back. We had to commit fully to Triangle."

Overcoming Challenges: Intellectual Property and Manufacturing Hurdles

Early success was tempered by significant challenges, notably intellectual property (IP) theft. Erin shares a painful experience where their manufacturer in China not only copied their designs but also attempted to register their brand name locally.

Erin Deering [07:31]: "They copied us and tried to register our name in China. It was really stressful."

This ordeal taught her the importance of securing trademarks early on. Additionally, they faced operational setbacks, including the loss of their initial product stock due to the manufacturer's breach. Despite these hurdles, Erin and Craig remained resilient, focusing on innovation and finding new manufacturing partners.

Growth Through Influencer Marketing: Harnessing Authenticity

A pivotal moment in Triangle's growth was their strategic use of influencer marketing. Erin emphasizes the significance of genuine relationships over transactional partnerships.

Erin Deering [14:30]: "We were gifting without any expectation of a post in return. It was very genuine."

By sending their swimwear to influencers like Kendall Jenner through her friends, they sparked a viral movement that significantly boosted their presence in the United States. This authentic approach contrasted with the prevalent expectation of paid promotions, distinguishing Triangle in a crowded market.

Erin Deering [16:17]: "It was an authentic approach, and it really got us a lot of traction."

Lean Operations: Scaling with a Small Team

Despite achieving impressive revenues, Triangle maintained a lean operational structure. Erin and Craig managed most aspects of the business, supplemented by a small team handling essential functions like customer care.

Erin Deering [20:38]: "For the size of the business, the team is tiny."

By keeping overheads low and reinvesting profits into product development and marketing, they sustained rapid growth without the complexities of a large organizational structure.

Personal Struggles: Identity and Burnout

Erin opens up about the personal toll of entrepreneurial success. As Triangle grew, she struggled with identity and burnout, feeling disconnected from herself despite external achievements.

Erin Deering [31:43]: "I did not know who Erin was. I had lost my way through the business."

The intense focus on the brand consumed her, leading to feelings of isolation and dissatisfaction. This culminated in her decision to step away from Triangle in 2018 to rediscover herself and seek deeper fulfillment.

Erin Deering [31:59]: "If inside just isn't working, it just really doesn't matter."

Lessons and Advice for E-Commerce Founders

Erin imparts valuable lessons for aspiring entrepreneurs, emphasizing the importance of intention, customer relationship nurturing, and product excellence.

1. Right Intention: Start with a clear, authentic purpose beyond mere profit.

   Erin Deering [37:09]: "You’ve got to have the right intention when you’re starting a business."

2. Customer Journey: Prioritize the customer experience to build loyalty and word-of-mouth.

   Erin Deering [37:09]: "If your product's amazing, but you don't nurture your customer, they're not going to come back."

3. Influencer Marketing: Approach influencer collaborations with authenticity and patience.

   Erin Deering [40:54]: "Influencer marketing does work. It just takes time."

4. Lean Operations: Maintain a manageable team and reinvest profits wisely to foster sustainable growth.

   Erin Deering [27:44]: "The more we made, the more we put back into making more styles."

Future Plans: Empowering Women in Business

Post-Triangle, Erin is dedicated to mentoring and empowering women in business, leveraging her experiences to support others in overcoming similar challenges. She aims to create a supportive community where women feel less isolated and more empowered to pursue their entrepreneurial ambitions.

Erin Deering [36:05]: "I really want to tap into that and just make people feel better about what they're doing."

Conclusion

Erin Deering's story is a compelling testament to the resilience and adaptability required in entrepreneurship. From building Triangle into a swimwear powerhouse to navigating personal and professional challenges, her insights offer invaluable guidance for founders aiming to create impactful and sustainable businesses.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Erin Deering [07:31]: "They copied us and tried to register our name in China. It was really stressful."
• Erin Deering [14:30]: "We were gifting without any expectation of a post in return. It was very genuine."
• Erin Deering [20:38]: "For the size of the business, the team is tiny."
• Erin Deering [31:43]: "I did not know who Erin was. I had lost my way through the business."
• Erin Deering [37:09]: "You’ve got to have the right intention when you’re starting a business."
• Erin Deering [36:05]: "I really want to tap into that and just make people feel better about what they're doing."

Key Takeaways

• Authenticity in Marketing: Building genuine relationships with influencers can lead to exponential brand growth.
• Lean Management: A small, focused team can efficiently manage a large-scale business when operations are streamlined.
• Personal Well-being: Balancing business growth with personal identity and fulfillment is crucial for long-term success.
• Customer-Centric Approach: Prioritizing customer experience fosters loyalty and sustainable growth.

Erin Deering’s journey with Triangle offers a blueprint for aspiring entrepreneurs, highlighting the importance of innovation, resilience, and maintaining one’s authenticity in the face of rapid growth and personal challenges.

Transcript

[Nathan Chan]

Hey, founder fam. Today, I'm diving back into the archives to bring you our episode with Erin Deering. She's the co founder of the global swimwear sensation Triangle. From a spontaneous idea on a Melbourne beach to building a $200 million brand worn by the likes of Kendall Jenner and Hailey Bieber, Aaron's journey is a true testament to the power of innovative thinking and relentless determination. In this episode, Erin takes us through how she identified a gap in the market, launched her brand using the influence effect before it became mainstream, and really scaled Triangle to become a cult favorite with customers in over 100 different countries around the world. But behind the meteoric rise, Erin faced personal challenges, struggling with identity, burnout, and the pressure of success. She really shares her lessons on all that she learned from walking away from it all in 2018 to find a deeper sense of fulfillment and purpose. All right, let's dive in, hear the.

[Erin Deering]

Stories, learn the proven methods, and accelerate your growth and future through entrepreneurship. Welcome to the founder podcast with Nathan Chan.

[Interviewer]

So, Erin, the first question that I ask everyone that comes on is, how did you get your job, AKA how do you find yourself doing the work you're doing today?

[Erin Deering]

Well, Triangle launched back in the idea launched back in 2011 in Melbourne on a beach. And my partner at the time, co founder Craig, we had our second date and I couldn't find a bikini. Well, actually, no, I went to find a bikini because second date at the beach is kind of, you know, a little bit nerve wracking. I wanted something nice and I went shopping and I couldn't find anything that sat between a surf brand and a higher, like, Zimmerman Seafoly kind of price point. So we got on the beach, I ended up finding something. I think I bought a Zimmerman bikini. And we had, we ended up chatting about it and pretty much then and there went, there's a, you know, gap in the market. This could be really fun. Why don't we keep talking about it? And Triangle was pretty much born that day.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Erin Deering]

Wow. Yes.

[Interviewer]

So what happened next?

[Erin Deering]

Well, we, Craig had had previous experience in having a business, so that was super fortunate. I hadn't had to had, you know, I think everyone, I was 27, so had pretty lofty ambitions and like, I'm going to do this and do that, but no idea how to do it. And so we kind of started thinking about how we were going to start it and the name and the logo and the designs and all of those things. And then pretty early on, like probably a few months after that, we realized that we needed to. We didn't need to, but we thought we'd move to Hong Kong to be close to the supply chain. We also just knew that we really wanted to have a crack and we wanted to do it properly. And if we stayed in Melbourne with our identities here and our friends and our distractions, we wouldn't really commit. So we packed up everything, sold our small number of possessions, and moved to Hong Kong.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Erin Deering]

Wow. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And at you guys only on your second date.

[Erin Deering]

Yes. Yeah. So. So it was all very quick. So we kind of, you know, fell in love and had our personal relationship going at the same time as Triangles, you know, the business. So they were always very intertwined and, like, you know, pretty much just the same. So. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Wow. And during that time period, like, did you leave your job? Like, what?

[Erin Deering]

Yeah, yeah. So Craig. And so he was working. He'd had a business for fashion, but he was previously an AFL footballer. And then. So he's had many careers. And then had a fashion label which was quite popular in Melbourne called St. Lenny. And then that he went bankrupt with that, which, you know, was jarring. Well, it wasn't really jarring for me. It was more jarring for people around me, probably my parents. But it was actually amazing. And it was huge. Really integral to the success of Triangle, because he'd learned so much through that process and he, you know, he made decisions that were bad, and so it really kind of helped us. But his bankruptcy ended in April 2012.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Erin Deering]

And so then he was able to kind of do things. And that was kind of why we packed up and left. He just quit his job. He'd had some design job at a company here. I was working in E commerce at a company, and I was loving it. But it was. You can see that trajectory when you're in, you know, and you would know when you're in another business and you're in kind of not corporate, but you're in someone else's business. You can't really accelerate to any level that you really want to. So, you know, it was pretty easy just to pack up and get my notice and get out of here.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I see. So what happened next? So you guys moved to Hong Kong.

[Erin Deering]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

How'd you come up with the brand? The logo, the name? Like, really solid. Yeah.

[Erin Deering]

So Craig is, you know, all credit to him. He's a true, true creative and just loves to come up with logos and names and visuals and really, you know, like, he did another 10 ideas during the Triangle days for other things. Like, he Loves it. So that kind of was really down to him. And we came up with that pretty early on. And when we got to Hong Kong, that was really all about getting the samples and finding the money to start to manufacture something, to get it out there. And we were building our website. We knew, actually, we didn't know at the start we wanted to be direct to consumer. We did try wholesale a little bit, but we also knew that that model was pretty clunky, quite hard to manage. My passion really lies in the customer experience and having that direct connection and I knew I'd lose that in wholesale. So we were really protective of that pretty early on and made the decision to just do it online.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Erin Deering]

And. Yeah, and so that's kind of in the first year, which was 2012, from June onwards, that was what we were doing, was just hustling to get some product out into the market.

[Interviewer]

Y How long did it take for you to go from Idea Conception to first customer to launch?

[Erin Deering]

Yeah, look. So idea conception was 2011 in October, November, and then we sold our first bikini online in January 2013.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Erin Deering]

So it would have been. It was a while. Yeah, it didn't feel like that. I think that was. That first half of 2012 when we were in Melbourne, that was just getting ready to move and so that was exciting and there was so much potential. And. And then when. That second half of 2012 was incredibly stressful because we'd given everything up. We were in Hong Kong, we were flat broke. We didn't even have money to go back home. And we knew we couldn't go back home. We had to try everything to get this brand to launch. And so that was six months of real hustle. And we had to borrow some money off a few friends to really get, you know, to pay our rent and to get some product out there.

[Interviewer]

And what was moq?

[Erin Deering]

We were so fortunate. It was really, really low. It was like 400 paces, which now doesn't happen at all. And that's a real hurdle for people, I think, especially trying to launch a business that's selling a product is. MOQs are so bloody high. And if they're lower, the cost goes through the roof. So we were really, really lucky. We'd found an amazing manufacturer in China. We went to trade shows in the start and just sampled with a few, found a really good one. They ended up completely screwing us, but that's another story.

[Interviewer]

Oh, let's hear that. Let's hear that. Yeah, tell us about that. What happened?

[Erin Deering]

Well, they. They copied us and they started making our products on the side and selling them in China and tried to register our name in China. So we learned about IP and trademarks in a really painful way because we didn't do it at the start because it cost money. We didn't have money. And we also didn't know that it would become what it would become. So when they. When we found out they were copying us, which is about 2014, and it wasn't just them, everyone then came and copied us. Like every brand in the world that was doing swimwear did a triangle version and. Yeah, but they were the. They were the worst. They were trying to claim our brand and they did a mimic website. And yeah, it was pretty tough, it was pretty stressful, but we learned a lot through it and we really just kind of. We got our name trademarked in every other place we could. And I can't even recall if we did in China in the end, but they did eventually go away. And that was just through us just, I guess, at the end of the day, just ignoring them and focusing on innovating and making better product and moving to another manufacturer as well. Yeah, but that was stressful. We lost all our product because we left them and they wouldn't give us any of our swimwear. So we had a good month or so where we didn't have any bikinis to sell and we were still selling them online because we didn't really know if we'd get it back or not. And it was. Yeah, there was some real pain points there. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

It's actually a good one because this is common, right? Like you have a hot product. Yeah, it's being manufactured in China. You do the Alibaba thing. Yeah, Literally. This.

[Erin Deering]

My.

[Interviewer]

My fiance's bottle. Yeah, Healthish. This was the first time Mark water bottle, like, really made. And now everyone's copied it.

[Erin Deering]

Oh, gosh.

[Interviewer]

Like, it's everywhere.

[Erin Deering]

Right. And that's what people just do.

[Interviewer]

And so what. How did you work through that? What were the lessons? Because it's so easy for this to happen.

[Erin Deering]

Yeah, well, the China one was, you know, that was because they weren't pushing into our market. It didn't feel as stressful. It was awful. But we were able to sort of, you know, I guess, like, separate that from our. What we were selling in Australia and the US when brands like Victoria's Secret copied us. And they were very, very aggressive in doing every single bikini that we did and just copying us, you know, straight up. And we, you know, tried to take them on legally, which you know, you start the process and realize you're about to go down an incredibly expensive path. So we did all those initial aggressive, you know, like, this isn't fair and we're going to go after them and how dare they. And then you kind of. It's distressed, you know, you're up every night till 2am looking, finding copies and people are sending them to you. And, you know, and that was obviously just. It was going to happen. But when you're in it, it's so tough to kind of step away from it. But you really have to, you have to go, you know what? This won't stop. I can, you know, bang my fist, make as much noise as possible, send cease and desist letters, do whatever, but at the end of the day, they'll keep doing it. What we have to have faith in, what we have to do as a brand is innovate, step, keep pushing forward, know that we created that. They don't have the talent to keep creating because they're copying. So let's keep creating. And we're really fortunate to be able to keep doing that. And, you know, I guess, like deviate and move away from, from, you know, what we were doing and still know that, you know, and also still know that what you're making, people will still buy that. Even if there are copies, they still will want the original as long as you're still making other product and not getting too stuck because it's such an investment of your time and energy to throw at people copying you. And it's taking away from your innovation and your creation of anything new. And we just saw that happening. We saw that we were spending our days doing that as opposed to creating anything new. So we just went, well, we've just got to create new things, put the blinkers on and just keep pushing forward. And they all went away.

[Interviewer]

So. So, yeah. Wow.

[Erin Deering]

Interesting. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So you end up finding a better supplier.

[Erin Deering]

Yes. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And then what happened next? Like, so those 400 pieces, how did you get that first sale? Was it through Instagram? Was that the first play or was it friends and family?

[Erin Deering]

Like. Yeah, it was friends and family. It was. We did launch our website, but obviously our social media was tiny and we weren't really getting much traction as you. As you weren't back then. So it was a lot of word of mouth, you know, it was a lot of our friends and then our friends of friends. Friends and then putting it up on social media and just, you know, we always had this tagline that we wanted to sell one Bikini a day.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Erin Deering]

Because that would match our salaries that we were making back in Melbourne.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Erin Deering]

So we, with. Without having that crazy expectation, everything felt quite attainable and achievable.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Erin Deering]

And so we did just sort of start. You know, I think people really under. Undervalue word of mouth because it's not like a measurable, you know, like, you know, you can't say, oh, here, look, here's the return on investment on word of mouth. But it's so valuable. And it really was huge for us. And in Australia, especially in Melbourne, you know, people were going, oh, this is brand. And then they saw on Instagram and, you know, we were putting up lovely pictures of girls in bikinis. And that took a little while actually. But we did shoot one or two girls and put the bikinis on them and then put those photos up. And it was all done through Instagram pretty quickly.

[Interviewer]

Yep.

[Erin Deering]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So where did, where and when did you get that step change in growth? Because from my research, you guys are doing 200, almost 200 grand a day in profits.

[Erin Deering]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

It's like, you know, insane. Like, did the company get to north of 100 million revenue a year? Can you talk about that?

[Erin Deering]

Yeah, it got to. Not 100 million. It was about our biggest year would have been 60 million US because our peak was only. Because it's a seasonal product. Our peak was at different times. So there were a few months and it still is that way. August, September, October, really lean. Because globally no one's really buying swimwear then. Yes. But yeah, so we like, our biggest kind of step growth would have been probably the social media impact of the Kardashians or more so Kendall Jenner. We had a few before then of like bigger bloggers posting and now bloggers back then because that was before they changed the name to influencer.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, well, now it's creator.

[Erin Deering]

Yeah, sorry.

[Interviewer]

True creator. Cardio.

[Erin Deering]

Everyone's the dirty word now. Creator. Yeah. So we had a few of them and that would always, you know, get us a couple of, you know, not a couple, but like new followers. New, new, you know, customers that were really, really catapulted when we had Kendall Jenner post about our bikinis. And then that really launched us into the States. By then we were already pretty solid in Australia. We had a pretty good customer base. We had a great mailing list. Yeah. But the States was really because of that power factor of. Of Kendall. Really?

[Interviewer]

And when was that? And tell us how that came about.

[Erin Deering]

Yeah, that was. I believe it was 2014. I could have My year on.

[Interviewer]

So it only took a couple years to.

[Erin Deering]

Yeah, yeah, it was really quick. Like, once we. Once we got over that first sort of 2013, you know, obviously there are a few pain points and. But nothing slowed down. The growth would slow down, but it was still always growing. And then when Kendall posted, that was when everything went mad. And we had a bit of a strategy around that we knew we couldn't reach. Cause we were reaching out to girls. So taking a step back as well. What we did, which no one was doing back then, which most brands kind of do now, is that we were gifting without any expectation of a post in return. It was true. And we were very clear on that. We would say, we're sending you this. Please don't. Unless you. We don't need you to post it. We just want you to have it. We think you'll love it. Nine out of 10, even, you know, 9.5 out of 10 would post. Yeah. Because they just. And we were really genuine because we didn't want girls posting it and not really looking good or feeling good and then posting a photo because that would. Then, you know, it would be obvious. So that was sort of really big for us. And I think it got us quite a lot of traction in that. That, you know, blogger world or that social media world, because it was genuine and it wasn't saying that, you know, we'll send you this, but send, like, post about it. Like, you must post. It was never that. And we never wanted to pay. You know, I still don't. I don't believe they're doing that now. We never really paid anyone. And. Yeah, and so that. That was happening and then. So we were reaching out to girls, but we knew we couldn't reach out to Kendall because she was, you know, the big fish. And she just wouldn't reply. So we reached out to all of her friends, and they were girls that didn't really have followings. You know, they might have had like 2,000 or something, but nothing big. Two of them are actually Bella Hadid and Hayley Baldwin. Now Bieber.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Erin Deering]

But they were just, you know, Hayley was just a, you know, cute Californian girl. Like, really sweet, young. I think she was like 16, you know, like super, super young. Really lovely. You know, she was a Baldwin, but that was her thing. She wasn't her own. And Bella was the same. Really. Bella was just one. They were just Kendall's friends.

[Interviewer]

Wow. And they didn't have a big following.

[Erin Deering]

No, no. So we gifted them and then hoping that Kendall would come and chase us down. And she did. She emailed me, got my email from one of the girls who we, you know, gifted and said, all my friends have these bikinis. Can I get some too? They're amazing. So we sent her everything, and then that was really it. And that kind of started that movement over there because all those girls were wearing them and that. That, though they became more and more influential, and it just kind of grew from there. And then we got on the other Kardashians and Kim and Kourtney and Christiana. Yeah, she was wearing them and.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, all gifting.

[Erin Deering]

All gifting, yeah. Yeah, all gifting. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You would think that for the Kardashians, you have to pay, like, you know, like, high smile or like they're paying.

[Erin Deering]

Yeah, yeah. No, we didn't. We did. It was pretty early on.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Erin Deering]

So, you know, we knew that if we wanted to, say, guarantee a post or guarantee some kind of coverage, that we would pay, but we just. We knew they liked the brand and that they wanted it, you know, and they would, like. They'd get everything. I remember Kim requested this selection. This was early Kanye days when she changed her look.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Erin Deering]

And all the bikinis she selected were, like, black, white, gray, and were, like, on the Kanye effect. Like, she's getting all the wanted, like, all the monochrome kind of vibe.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Erin Deering]

But, yeah, they all really wanted it and they wore it, and they never tagged us, but the Daily Mail picked it up and other publications picked it up, and they would talk about us. And so it was happening anyway. We didn't need them to tag us in the end, because then we would use the photo on our page, tag them, and people would be like, holy shit.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Erin Deering]

Yeah, let's, you know, try. Wow. So it was really just fortunate and an authentic approach to doing it as well.

[Interviewer]

So as the business really grew super fast, where did you build team? Was it in Hong Kong? Did you come back here, set up base or. How did. What did that look like?

[Erin Deering]

Stayed in Hong Kong, set up a supply chain office there. But only in, like, 2000 second half of 2014 is when we really. We were still working out of our apartment. Before that, we kept it really, really lean, really tight, really flexible, because we knew, you know, we just didn't want to, like, I guess, you know, go too far ahead on anything just in case. So. And we still. In our. In our minds, you know, Craig and I never expected it to be what it was. So we were still small business minded, really. And, you know, we still were even when we were doing those big numbers and we'd be meeting with people and they're like, what's your team like? And we're like, it's kind of us. And like four other part time people like, it was really, really small. So we did have the supply chain because we needed that by then, you know, we couldn't manage that sort of, you know, production process, you know, in the critical path without help. But that was still about. Would have been five or six people in Hong Kong and that was it. And then just Craig and I and no one else. There was no marketing, no social media. It was still.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Erin Deering]

Dominantly me with a team of girls that were doing the customer care. Because that was a huge, you know, part of the business was that personal touch that, you know, we launched live chat on our website before any other fashion business would have ever done it. Because we knew that when you're buying something as intimate as swimwear, you want to feel like you can ask someone about sizing straight away. So that was really important. So we had a team, we had quite a few girls doing that in the Philippines.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Erin Deering]

And they were just working from home and doing it there and that was it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Wow.

[Erin Deering]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

But over time it grew.

[Erin Deering]

Or it's still pretty small. I mean I've left, but it's still a small team. There's girls in Sydney now. There's a store in Sydney and there's a, there's a team of about, I think there's probably like four girls in Sydney.

[Nathan Chan]

Oh, wow.

[Erin Deering]

But still really small. And then Craig's in Monaco and there's still, I think a small team in Hong Kong. But for the size of the business, the team is tiny.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Nathan Chan]

Wow.

[Erin Deering]

Because the, the model hasn't really changed and you know, I'm sure it could have. It would have taken a different path. Maybe bigger, maybe better, maybe not.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Erin Deering]

Keeping it lean and keeping it, you know, about what we were doing was just really easy to manage. So we were just, we just kept it that way. It was kind of like it's not broken. So.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Don't try fix it. Yeah. That's awesome.

[Erin Deering]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Wow. That's really interesting because I would have thought. Yeah. As it grew and to even hit, you know, 60 million US, not 500 million in Australia, like 50, like 150. People like to run the operations, the marketing power, all of that. That's crazy.

[Erin Deering]

Yeah. We would because we entertained the idea of selling in 2015 because we had private equity just coming for us. Like you wouldn't Believe. So we thought, well, why not? We'll just see. And we'd be sitting out. We went, you know, we sat down with Bain Capital, and they're like, so, what's your team? Tell us about your team. And we're like, it's kind of us. And they're like, no, no. What? And it was just. It was dumbfounding in a way to people that we had built what we'd built, really, just the two of us with a few other people kind of helping on the bits that we just needed help with because we didn't have enough hours in the day. But essentially, it was really Craig and I.

[Interviewer]

Let's talk about the product. I'd love to go deeper because it's product LED growth.

[Erin Deering]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Like, it's. Yes. Instagram was awesome. And I think sometimes people, they start an E Commerce brand and they go, yeah, I'm just gonna do the influencer thing.

[Erin Deering]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

But if the product isn't something that is shareable or that people get pumped about or they love, like, all that on the brand, you don't get the traction, like what you have.

[Erin Deering]

Exactly.

[Interviewer]

So let's talk about that. Yeah. How did you know when it was the right time to launch?

[Erin Deering]

Because we. We launched with nylon spandex, like, standard bikini fabric, and that was okay. You know, we launched the graphic prints. It was kind of cool, kind of cute, but it didn't have that, like, you know, like, it factor. Like, it wasn't. Like there wasn't. It was just kind of a slightly better version of what other people were doing, but at a better price point.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Erin Deering]

And so we were like, yeah, this is good. Like, it's okay, but, like, there's got to be something more than this. There's got to be something. Something new, you know, and. And, you know, and I'm saying that. I was just saying this was mainly Craig because he's the real innovator, and he, you know, was going up look. He's. He was obsessed with fabrics and trying this and trying that. And what about this fabric in a thick, like a. Like a thicker nylon spandex, like four layers, or, you know, maybe bonding it onto this or, you know, trying all different things and landed on neoprene. You know, neoprene has been around for swimwear, obviously it's wetsuits, and has been around in swimwear. There's, you know, a few other brands that were doing it, but we were the first ones to obviously take it into the mainstream market.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Erin Deering]

And we knew when we made them and when I put them on, you just. You just. We said that, you said that feeling. It's like, oh, this is it. Like, we just knew. It just looked so good on the body. So smooth. So the lines were lovely. It looks like nothing anyone had really done before. And this was, you know, the. The color with the black bind, it was so simple, but it felt. Just felt special. And when you would photograph well, it would work really well being an E commerce business, because it looked impressive to get. You know, it was. It was more solid. It wasn't like, you know, non spanics, you know, you can squish into a ball. It was really. It was, you know, impressive to look at and hold, and it looked really good on. So that. That was when we. When we knew. And then when we put that out, that was what people gravitated to because they were like, we haven't seen this. This is new to us, and it's not expensive, so let's give it a go.

[Interviewer]

But it didn't sell that fast right away, right?

[Erin Deering]

Not really like it did. What we noticed is when. Because we launched with nylon spandex, that was slow. That was still like, you know, maybe like a couple of sales a week, you know, and getting a bit of growth every week. So we were like, this is okay.

[Interviewer]

But you didn't sell out first day like you've been banged down the door.

[Erin Deering]

Not at all. Not at all. We were okay with the growth because our. We didn't have any overheads. We were paying ourselves. We weren't paying anyone else. So we were like. And, you know, we just knew that we could sort of kind of move with it and change. When we put the neoprene out, that is when we saw that jump from 3, 4 sales a week to be 3, 4 sales a day. And we're like, okay, all right, interesting. Good, good. And then we put a few more colors out in it, and we were like, oh, okay, this is, you know, and then. And then we did a proper photo shoot in Bali. And then these little things that would happen along the way in the start, and we see that growth. And it wasn't massive growth, not until, you know, like six months or a year later. We really. But we were growing enough to see that what we were doing was working and we were nurturing our customers. You know, we were talking to them, we were helping them through processes of returning or if they. If something broke or, you know, and so there was just a really good energy and feeling around it. And it was Craig and I doing everything so we were sending out the product, we were talking, doing the social media, we were emailing the customers. We were doing it all. So we were really able to tune in on what was going on at every angle. And even though the growth looked small from the outside, in the beginning, for us, it was huge because we were like every new. Every. Like, I used to get the PayPal notifications on my phone, so it would ding when a sale would come through. And that was, like, the best. I remember eventually having to turn it off because there were just too many and being so sad that chapter ended because every sale was just that confirmation that we were doing the right thing. And when that got up to, you know, 10 a day, or, you know, even less than that, like five a day was still amazing. Ten a day was great. And then when it got to sort of like 30, 40 a day, we were like, okay, we're onto something. Like, this is gonna be great. You just feel it.

[Interviewer]

And so how did you guys manage cash flow around this rapid growth?

[Erin Deering]

Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, we were. We were always cash flow positive from launch. We never borrowed apart from the initial. So we borrowed to make the product.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Erin Deering]

Once we sold our first bikini, we never borrowed money again. So we were always able to, you know, like, we weren't spending much money ourselves. We were living super lean, but we were able to pay for the manufacturing, pay for our rent. We weren't paying girls for the swimwear. We were just sending products. So we had a huge, you know, we were making that extra product to gift.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Erin Deering]

But, you know, we'd worked on. Or Craig had really worked on getting our costings super, super, super low. So we were able to gift. And, you know, we had no other overhead. So cash flow, we just kept growing our cash, really, and. And not spending it because we were loving watching it come in. So we're like, let's keep it. Let's keep it. So, yeah, we were really fortunate.

[Interviewer]

Like, even with, like, as the business rapidly grew and product, you need to moqs get bigger and bigger. Well, there's no moq. You're just bigger and bigger and bigger. Bigger orders. You guys didn't fall into any difficult.

[Erin Deering]

No, no. The more we made, the more we, you know, we put back into making more styles. Doing better photo shoots.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Erin Deering]

Hiring better models, getting better photographers. You know, Craig used to do the shoots. He used to be the photographer, and I would hold the. Like, it was literally that kind of, you know, and he. We would edit. No, I think we would. We would. We Would outsource the editing, but we would do that bit ourselves. So it was all done in that way. So when we got more money, it was just to put those few things in place to make the brand look better. You know, maybe hire, like, we hired a girl in Canada to do the live chat on the side that I was sleeping because I couldn't do it, you know, 24 7. So those little things. But it all went back into the business.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Wow. Super lean operation.

[Erin Deering]

I thought.

[Interviewer]

I thought it would be much bigger.

[Erin Deering]

No, no. So lean.

[Interviewer]

So you've been fairly open around kind of the challenges, personally, with the growth of the business. I'd love to hear kind of like the real side of that. Like, you know, people from the outside, you know, you're on the young rich list. You know, people might think, oh, wow, she's got it all worked out. I'd love to trade places with her. I'd love to hear some of the struggles.

[Erin Deering]

Yeah. So in the beginning, it was great, and we loved it, and my skill sets were super, you know, tangible, and I knew what I was doing, and I knew my place, and it was customer care and it was Instagram, and that was great. And then when the brand became so big and huge and it kind of outgrew me and I didn't know where I fit in, and that was happening at the same time as making a ton of money and all this success. And I had my first baby. And, you know, and from the outside, every box was being ticked. You know, I ticked every box that you could tick by that age. And I was completely intern, you know, internalizing how I was feeling so much that I didn't even really know what was going on at the time. I just was feeling not as happy as I thought that I probably should be feeling. And then just putting that down to just. We were so busy that I just wasn't stopping and pausing. But it was really that I lost my way through that business. You know, didn't. You know, I was 27 when it started. So they're really formative years of working out who you are. And I was triangle. Like, that was me. That was my identity. So, you know, you go along on that path with it, and you don't really ever get to step away from it because it is you. And, you know, I was too. You know, I was too. I guess, you know, when I got to the really top bit, and that was when we moved to Monaco and we had, you know, we were multimillionaires and the rich list and, you know, and I, We. I asked to not go on that every year because I just didn't want that to be what it was about because I didn't. I didn't, like, attach myself to that. I don't know whether it was I didn't feel worthy or I was embarrassed or because I wasn't feeling super fulfilled and happy. I didn't want people to see that and it not be the reality, but I was really, really struggling, and I didn't want anyone to know because I felt like people would just be like, how dare you be struggling? Like, look at your life. Like, you've got all the money. You've got, you know, a partner, a baby. You live in Monaco. You, like, come on. Like. But I was really. It was like, it was that real. It's the best thing about Triangle that I took away from it was that it does not matter what your material successes are. If inside just isn't working, it just really doesn't matter. And I had to learn that the really hard way. And now I look back and there were great times. I wasn't miserable the whole time, but I just wasn't able to work out. I didn't have the ability to work out what it was that wasn't working because I'd lost that sense of self completely. You know, it took four years of. To, you know, really recently to actually be like, I know who I am, and I found my place and I'm ready to go again.

[Interviewer]

Can you tell us a little bit more around that journey and kind of lessons you could share with people watching? Because the highs are high and the lows are low. And there is a dark side of entrepreneurship where it's really tough.

[Erin Deering]

It's tough, it's isolating, and it's, you know, you become your brand, and that is your identity. And when I exited in 2018, I did not know who, you know, Erin was. Like, I just. Just didn't know. I had two children. I had all this, you know, money, which I didn't actually really have because we were settling and there were disagreements with that, and we've only just recently settled, so that was also happening. And I didn't want to go back to Australia and come back to Melbourne. And I didn't want to lose my identity and attachment to Triangle because I knew everyone here was so impressed by that. And my ego was like, no, like, hold on to that. But I needed to let it go to. To grow and to, like, find myself again. So, you know, it was a. It was a It was a really long process. And I guess, you know, it's something that I wish because, you know, I still think about that time. And if I was in my 20s and I was watching me and I was back in Melbourne watching this girl succeed and do that, I'd be like, I want that. I want that. And I still fall into that trap now if I see people, you know, making a ton of money or living overseas or traveling, and I fall into that trap of, oh, like, that would be nice maybe, like, why, why I should do that, or like, I wish I could or. But in the day, it just really doesn't matter, like, what you're doing and, and. And where you are in life, because if you don't feel that, you know, and it's kind of cheesy, but if you don't feel that fulfillment or that self worth or that, you know, kind of grounded feeling of, of what your values are and what your belief system is and all that kind of stuff, if you don't have that, you won't be happy no matter what you're doing. You could be swimming in money. You could be, you know, shopping every day like I was and spending thousands of dollars and feeling numb about it, like, that's where I was at. So I wish I had been. I wish I could tell, you know, like, I wish I could go back and tell myself that. Or what I really want to do now is actually tell women that. That, like, you know, you don't have to be on the hamster wheel of chasing these things because they might not fulfill you and they might. Like, there's things that I am ready to go again about that'll probably be similar goals, but I know that I'm coming from a base of knowing me and knowing what fills me up and what makes me happy. So, yeah, it's a lesson. Lots of lessons.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, lots of lessons. So you exited. I'm curious, what's the plans now?

[Erin Deering]

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's exciting. It's taken me. I took. I did take four years off, you know, I have four children, so I was busy and I was really working myself out and getting back into, you know, Erin and that world. So I, yeah, took a real break. Took a really long time to work out who I was and find what I really loved and what. And what really, you know, made me, like, ignited that kind of passion in me because Triangle had that to an extent, but not in the same way I feel about what I'm doing now and what I really want to do and what I am doing is make women, especially in business, does not. Doesn't have to be entrepreneurs. You know, obviously I have a soft spot for entrepreneurs. I know how it feels. But just women in business, you know, men as well. But I really do feel super passionate about women because I know what it was like before, I know what it was like during, and I know how I am now. And I want them to feel less alone, less isolated, more empowered, just better about themselves because, you know, everyone is worthy and everyone has the potential to do amazing things. Everyone just has roadblocks, like we all do, and we all have to navigate them and understand them and move through them. So, you know, that's where I'm really, really moving into. And I've been doing a bit of mentoring. I'm setting up my website. I'm moving into a few different structures that I'm like, this is my. I really feel like triangle was there for me to now do this. Like, this is what I'm really ready to do.

[Interviewer]

So you kind of move into more investing, advisory, mentoring?

[Erin Deering]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, mentoring, definitely. You know, we really. I really do. You know, I come from sort of working in corporate, so I really do want to tap into those women as well, you know, and men. I keep saying women because it's just. I just feel like it's just more natural, you know, and I really want to tap into that and just make, you know, people feel better about what they're doing. And I've done a little bit of it. I've sort of become a lot more active on my social media, which was a bit, you know, I felt silly, but now I feel really good about it. I feel like I'm, I'm, you know, having great conversations. I'm connecting with women again. I know where, where, where I'm going. So, yeah, it's exciting. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And I'm curious, like 2022, there's a lot of e commerce brands launching. What are common mistakes that you're seeing people make? And like. Yeah, yeah, because it sounds like you're doing some mentoring maybe with e comm founders or female founders. Like, yeah, I'd love to hear kind of what are common mistakes you're seeing people make.

[Erin Deering]

I think a lot of people are, you know, I think it's a tough one. It's probably for me, it's a few things. It's. You've got to have the right intention when you're starting a business, whatever it is, and people, you know, underestimate, I think, a few things. And it's the, it's the, the way people, other people can feel what your intention is. Like they know what you're doing, like why you're doing what you're doing. It's like, it's not tangible, but it's there, you know. And I think a lot of people will start a business with the wrong intention and then wonder why it's not working because they're like chasing an idea of being an entrepreneur or they're chasing an idea of selling this product or an idea of this, but it's not really what they like truthfully doing. So I think that's one mistake. I think people still underestimate, you know, customer, the customer journey and nurturing a customer, treating them like they are, you know, king. I think that's along with product being obviously number one. That's customer is like also number one. They sit together, they're equally as important as each other. Because if your product's amazing, but you don't nurture your customer, they're not going to come back to you. Someone else will make a similar product and they'll do it and then they'll just go to there. We don't. Loyalty, you know, I think brands need to. In 2022, I think, I think it's coming back, but I think that connection with the customer and building up that loyalty and that even that word of mouth kind of intangible connections that you're making, they're not as obvious like you're not paying to like sponsor a post on Instagram or like Boost, you know, whatever it. But you are putting the effort in and you will see it come back to you. It's just, you can't, you know, see it on a piece of paper. But it's really important. I think brands really need to focus on that.

[Interviewer]

And what About Influencer Marketing 2022? If you were to. Do you have aspirations to start another brand? If you did, how would you approach that right now?

[Erin Deering]

Yeah, look, I don't have any aspirations at the moment. I'm pretty, I'm, you know, happy to move into where I'm moving into. But if I did, you know, influencer marketing, I think it's still really important and valid and you can get a lot of traction there. But again, I think it comes back to the intention and, you know, and, and making the experience amazing. Like I'm now starting to get a bit of, you know, and I'm not a creator or an influencer, so I don't do anything like that. But I am getting those things. Come through and it's so interesting to me because I'm like, this is, like, this is what I used to do. And you know, you can tell the ones that are, that are really genuine, you know, and like I'll get messages from women saying I'm starting this brand and it's mine and, and I'd love to send you something and you can feel that they just want me to try it because they value my opinion.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Erin Deering]

And I love that. Versus the ones that are like, hey, we want to like, you know, send you this and can you like tag it? And it's just so transactional and I think that is really just not the way to do it. I know brands will get some success doing it that way, but it's not for me. It doesn't have any long standing success. I think that you've really got to treat everyone respectfully, genuinely, with a lot of integrity. And really that starts from having the right intention at the start with your business, you know, and knowing why you're doing it. And it's okay if, if it's because you, you know, you want to make money or you want to be, you know, the intention doesn't have to be some honorable, like philanthropic kind of intention. It just has to be true to really not be caught up in some like idealistic ego or, you know, whatever it is. Yeah, I think that, you know, that's really important.

[Interviewer]

And I guess a common thing that you hear is like, I tried influencer marketing, it doesn't work. What would you say?

[Erin Deering]

I would say it does. It just takes time. It's not an overnight thing. I think that it's that on social media you see the brands doing well and you see the people with a lot of followers and it's so easy to get caught up in that. But other people are doing this and they're doing that and I'm doing the same. And it's like, well, just persevere with what you feel is right. And again, it's like a little woo woo. But really tune into that gut feel like you know, when you're doing the right thing or you're on the right path with something, like you feel it. So if they say the influencer marketing is not working, it's like, well, what, what isn't working about it? Because it's either the way they're reaching out to an influencer or who they're reaching out to. Maybe they're going through all the big fish or they're going for a particular type who's not Even aligned with what they're selling. It's just like bringing that back and like asking yourself a lot of questions and then, and then starting again and pushing forward and maybe like deviating that way.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And if somebody wanted to learn from you around how to get well known celebrities to post about their brand, what would you say?

[Erin Deering]

Oh, I, I think it's a different landscape now. I would. Yeah. I'm not about pay. I still don't think you have to pay different for a campaign. If you want a celebrity to shoot your campaign, that's different. You know, that's a job. Yeah, exactly. But if you're trying to gift or trying to, you know, get them just to wear it. For us in the States, it was really handy to have a PR agency and they did like a gifting suite. Their retainers are big, but they're not insanely big. And that in the States is super, super helpful. That really helped us.

[Interviewer]

What sort of numbers we talking?

[Erin Deering]

Like their retainer for us was five grand a month. Us.

[Interviewer]

That's not too bad.

[Erin Deering]

It's not bad. It's not bad. I mean, that's still for us. We were like, no, what are you going to give us? Like, tell us. You know, but it was really helpful because in the States they operate more in that way, whereas in Australia it's more direct influencer. So in Australia, you know, if you want to get on a celebrity, I mean, you know, they're not as big as the States anyway. But in the States, if you really want to get say on a Kardashian, find the agency that they're pulling from or their stylists are pulling from.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Erin Deering]

And sign up with them. And it is money for, for a smaller business. But I do think that it would, it would pay off. I mean, it did for us. It's like they do suites for Coachella, they do a suite for Miami Swim Week. You know, for us that was really important. And the celebrities or the stylists come in and they just pack a bunch of stuff and then hopefully it gets on them.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And I'm curious, when you said you're speaking with private equity or Bain or had investors, how come you guys didn't sell?

[Erin Deering]

It always got to a point where we would have these numbers thrown at us that were pretty high and, you know, it was all like, amazing, and we're gonna offer you this. And you know, and it was never a majority, it was always minority, you know, share that. We were looking at selling or, or selling the whole thing. Most people didn't want to buy the whole thing because they want us to be involved. Obviously. It's a. It's a new business.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Erin Deering]

Once we. Once we really learned that, we would get to these, you know, have these meetings, get pretty close to, like, maybe thinking about signing something, and then we'd sit and go. What do we really, really value about our day? And it was having freedom and having no one to answer to and not having a boss or another person. And we knew that if we brought anyone else in majority, minority, it would just mean that we had to be accountable to other people. And that was really. We didn't want it. And, you know, no amount of money was going to, you know, shift that for us. So they. They didn't really get anywhere because of that.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Erin Deering]

Which is good. It was a really good thing to kind of value. I think as an entrepreneur, you value your freedoms so much, that's usually why you've left, you know, your other. Your other job and your other sort of work that you've done. So you gotta be really mindful before you give that up.

[Interviewer]

Well, look, Erin, thank you so much for taking the time. This is awesome. And, yeah, thank you for being so open, honest, and sharing with all the lessons you've learned. And you go full circle now.

[Erin Deering]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

This is awesome.

[Erin Deering]

Yeah. Thank you again. Thank you.

[Interviewer]

Hey, guys.

[Nathan Chan]

That's it for today's episode. So I got one quick favor from you. We put in so much effort to find the most craziest, hard to reach founders, super successful fans, the greatest fans of our generation.

[Interviewer]

All I ask is can you share.

[Nathan Chan]

This with a friend? Just one friend? It really, really helps us grow this show, and it's going to help your friend. Right. So please share this with just one person. It would mean the world to us so we can grow this show and build this community. All right, that's it from me.

[Interviewer]

I'll speak to you soon.