← The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan
The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan
555: From Losing $5M to Making $50M with just ONE Product | Matthew Orlic
00:51:04
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- [00:00]
Matt Orlich
I used to develop a lot of brands for Dick Smith, and one day overnight, I lost $5 million like that. I remember like it was yesterday. I was walking around the park in a deep emotional state and the victim mentality starts coming out. Why me? How does this happen to me? So I was so vulnerable. I had to seek validation within myself. If I continue to have that victim mentality, I knew I wouldn't be able to get myself out of that rut. Thank God. I lost $5 million because I had to look towards the future. I had to look at the positive in that scenario. How can I bounce back from this? That's actually going to push me forward and learn something. I had to do that in order to survive. People spend 90% of the time on strategy, 10% of mindset, but I'm telling you now, it' 90% mindset, 10% strategy. It's the who, not the how. And so many founders are so bogged down in strategy, trying to work out the latest tactic, this and that, then they got themselves. The business only grow to the amount that you grow. So if you don't master yourself, you're not going to grow the business, hear the stories, learn the proven methods, and accelerate your growth and future through entrepreneurship. Welcome to the Founder podcast with Nathan Chan.
- [01:01]
Nathan Chan
Hey, guys, welcome back to another episode episode of the Founder podcast. We're here in the studio. We've got Matt Orlich. He's the co founder of Cure Skin Care. He's been building businesses for 20 years. He's usually based out of Croatia. He's come down to do this one. So Matt, thank you so much for taking the time to be here.
- [01:19]
Matt Orlich
No, no, thank you. It's gonna be good.
- [01:21]
Nathan Chan
So you shared that you've been building businesses for 20 years. Your most recent brand, Cure. Um, talk us through. How did you start it? You started with your sister, but like, how big is that brand? Talk us through how you started it.
- [01:37]
Matt Orlich
Yeah, sure. So I've been building businesses last 18 years, built over 20 different businesses. I think it was in four verticals, nine product categories. And I got to a stage in my life, I was about 29 years old, where the feelings I had about myself didn't match the level of success that I had. You can call it like, not a midlife crisis, maybe a quarter life crisis. And I took work off for three years. I pay some top consultants around the world, psychotherapists, stuff like that, try and work out what was going wrong. Right. Because obviously the money wasn't fulfilling me. And there was One important lesson that I learned during that time, it's the difference between authentic money creation and inauthentic money creation. And I was creating a lot of money and wealth inauthentically, meaning there was no meaning attached to it because money carries data. So it's more important how you make it, not how much you make it. And when I learned that lesson, I wanted to pass it on to my sister. I said to her, let's give you a business. Start your business. You're extremely passionate about that you love so much, you don't care about how much it makes. So I don't want her to make same mistakes I did. So I moved to Croatia. She was still in Australia. She kept sending me different skincare products to use and didn't like post it notes, these in the morning, night, all this kind of stuff. She came to visit me in Croatia. She saw my skin. She's like, fuck, your skin's a lot better. The products must be working. I go, well, I haven't been using any of them. She's like, what have you been doing? So I brought her into my room and it was like a massive red LED panel that I imported from China with my office. And I'm like, this is what's making my skin look so good. And she's like, oh my God, I want one. How much is it? I was like, it's four grand. And her heart, like sunk, right, because she wanted the product. And then mainly I thought, he's out in, in terms of creating a business for her. So I went on Google, I thought, I've got this genius idea, I'll just do it for the face. No one else has done this. Obviously there's multiple products out there. But that was kind of the start of it because. And that's the DNA of the company. We don't want like beauty to be a luxury. We believe that it's a foundational right for everyone to feel good and confident in their skin. And I didn't want this social, economic barriers or people going to clinics and these expensive devices to not allow someone to have good skin. So that's where our first product was born, the LED face mask, which is one of the best masks in the world. We spent two years developing it and has like customizable treatments on the face which no one else has. And it's backed by the leading authorities in the world. And the business is three years old. And we recently had our first million.
- [03:47]
Nathan Chan
Dollar day from Black Friday. Yeah, yeah, okay, interesting. And I think, I think I've read you guys are on track to do 50 million this year.
- [03:56]
Matt Orlich
Yeah. Maybe slightly on a 47, 48 somewhere.
- [03:59]
Nathan Chan
Okay. But pretty impressive growth. 0 to 50 million three years a year.
- [04:03]
Matt Orlich
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
- [04:05]
Nathan Chan
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Wow. Yeah. So that's pretty impressive growth. So you said you've been building businesses. Sorry, for 18 years.
- [04:13]
Matt Orlich
Yeah.
- [04:14]
Nathan Chan
What was your first business? How'd you get into this space? Was online. Yeah.
- [04:19]
Matt Orlich
It's a good question. So, like, I've done everything. Like, if I told you what I did, you wouldn't believe me. Everything from lead generation. I had the license to Manchester United. I did Easter eggs and Woolies and Coles. I currently have the license to Umbro, the apparel company. I manufacture for an Under Armour. I've had Tattoo Removal Institute, which is a laser clinic. I've had supplement retail stores. I've kind of done everything. Now the way I got to the position of cure was that I used to develop a lot of brands for Dick Smith. And one day overnight, I lost $5 million. Like that 5 million, $5 million at the age of 25. And there's two important lessons I learned from that. From that day, I was walking around the park. I remember like as yesterday. And I was just like in a deep emotional state, almost. Almost teary. And the victim mentality starts coming out like, why me? You know, how does this happen to me? How is everyone else making money that I'm not? And in that moment, I learned those two important lessons. One was perspective. Because if I continue to have that victim mentality, I knew I wouldn't be able to get myself out of that rut, losing that money. So then I started reverse engineering. Who are the founders that I know that have had massive losses? And I started Googling them all. Okay, that's it. This is why it's happened. Thank God I lost $5 million because I've lost it early in my life. And that means I'm going to be successful. Right. And I changed the whole narrative and I got myself out of that and. And started to level up again. And the second lesson that I learned was that concentration risk, like a lot of my eggs were in one basket of all my brands that I was developing in Dick Smith. And that was a big, big mistake. And I've taken that lesson now to cure where a lot of ecom brands today are so reliant on meta, right? Which we're not met is less than 50% of our business. While they come brands like 80 or 90%. Because I learned that concentration Risk can actually be the downfall of your business. And that foundation, when we built CURE on a multi channel approach, which allowed it to be so successful as well.
- [05:59]
Nathan Chan
So dude, $5 million was it in a month you lost it?
- [06:03]
Matt Orlich
No, in the, in a night. Like as soon as Dick Smith went bankrupt, they owed me like three or four million dollars. And the company would have been worth like millions in value as well. So it would probably be over $5 million. But overnight, boom.
- [06:16]
Nathan Chan
Talk us through exactly what happened. I want, I'm keen to hear this story.
- [06:20]
Matt Orlich
Okay, so I think it started back when I was about 21 years old. I, I was doing import wholesale. I was importing brands in the country and I was wholesaling them to retailers until the day that I realized that the brands I was importing aren't doing anything that I can't do. So I went to China, I started developing my own brands and I started approaching mass retailers. One was a headphone brand called Onyes. And at the time, the way I got into mass retailers I was like, this is influencer marketing. Like 15 years ago I did a deal with Sony Music Australia and I said, so I'm going to give you a percentage of all sales. If all your artists promote my headphones inside your video clips, do the open like singles, new singles in the retailer shops and I'll give you guys percent of all sales and headphones. Sony agreed. I went for that plan to the retailers and got an exclusive deal with Dick Smith. And that was my end of my first brand. And from there I just start spinning off different brands. Because one thing I realized back then was the power of niching down. Like we look at a shelf. I have nothing to compete against. I haven't got the budgets of Sony or Dr. Dre beats, nothing else. I have the shelf and that traffic. So I made it start making incremental brands for every product category. I had a brand called Sports Beats just for sports headphones. Out of brands for speakers. Just speakers. I had a brands for drones called my drone. I had a brand for power bank called Juice Up. And that's how I started to open the markets up in terms of mass retailers. Cause I was able to provide a solution where no one else really could at that margin so the retailer can make some money.
- [07:39]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, got you. And then Dick Smith went bankrupt. When was this?
- [07:45]
Matt Orlich
Oh yeah, that's like 10 years ago now.
- [07:48]
Nathan Chan
Wow.
- [07:48]
Matt Orlich
Yeah.
- [07:49]
Nathan Chan
So you 25 years old.
- [07:51]
Matt Orlich
Yeah.
- [07:51]
Nathan Chan
They obviously, you know, had purchase orders. Big ones.
- [07:55]
Matt Orlich
Yeah, yeah, they got the stock.
- [07:56]
Nathan Chan
Yeah.
- [07:57]
Matt Orlich
And they sold through it and then I was just left in the dark like a lot of other suppliers. Right. I wasn't the only one.
- [08:03]
Nathan Chan
Yeah.
- [08:03]
Matt Orlich
But I think, you know, we were a small to medium business. We're not a large corporation so it affected us a lot more than others.
- [08:09]
Nathan Chan
And did you, what, what did you do? Like did you have to let go of staff, like talk us through that?
- [08:16]
Matt Orlich
Yeah, that's a great question and probably something I didn't mention. That's what got me into digital marketing because I was like so vulnerable. Sends these retailers and said fuck that, I can't do that anymore. I'm going to learn the art of digital marketing for my brands to live online. So I stopped going the retail route. I still work Rebel Sports today and still have some other businesses. That's where I learned the art of digital marketing and that's where my agency was formed that worked. Brands like Woody and stuff like that. Because I had to do that in order to survive. You know, unfortunately I actually didn't have to let off anyone during that period. I was fortunate enough actually still made a profit that year somehow a couple hundred grand. Yeah. But I still, I had to re engineer everything from scratch because like Dick Smith was a livelihood of my business. That's where all the sales are coming from now, where I'm going to acquire customers. So I had to start from ground zero essentially all over again.
- [09:02]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, got you. So you said that like take me back to that point where you said that you were beating yourself up. That negative self talk, like talk me through that because that there's a lot in that mindset piece and I know it's something you're very passionate about. It's not sexy.
- [09:21]
Matt Orlich
Yeah.
- [09:22]
Nathan Chan
Like you talked about, we were talking about this offline. Like you know, our focus at founders is to grow our membership. Founder plus and we, we find like next level founders to come back, get back to our platform and teach their skills and experiences on all sorts of topics like paid advertising, like with Shack or how to build Nikon brand like with Greta or. Or even things like Mindset. Where we got Joe Decino. He founded a company called Tough Mudder. No, no, Spartan. He founded Spartan and then he acquired Tough Mudder 100 million dollar brand. And I know that mindset's so important. So it was like let's get one of the coolest guys out there. It's a legit founder, built a massive brand and he's been through everything, got the crazy stories and we sold, we launched this program on, you know, mental toughness on Building your mindset because it's so key for founders. It was one, it was the worst selling product in the history of founder. Isn't that crazy?
- [10:18]
Matt Orlich
Yeah, it is. And I think this is the biggest problem with people today, right. A lot of people spend 90% of their time on strategy, 10% of mindset. But I'm telling you now, it's 90% mindset, 10% strategy. The way Richard Branson views the world and solves problems is, I mean him, he just looks at things differently. He has different mindset to it. It's not his skills, not his capability, it's just the way they view things and more. I work these high level people like nine figure founders or billionaires. It's literally their view of the world that's different to mine. And I'm trying to acquire their belief systems that they've built and trying to replicate them inside of myself because everyone has limiting beliefs, negative beliefs or negative beliefs. And that's the thing that's stopping them back from the growth. Because I'm fundamental believer that it's the who, not the how. And so many founders are so bogged down in strategy, trying to work out the latest tactic, this and that, then neglect themselves when the business is an extension of you. The business only grow to the amount that you grow. So if you don't master yourself, you're not going to grow the business.
- [11:14]
Nathan Chan
Take us back.
- [11:15]
Matt Orlich
Yeah.
- [11:15]
Nathan Chan
You'd lost five million bucks.
- [11:18]
Matt Orlich
Yeah.
- [11:18]
Nathan Chan
You didn't know what to do. Scared, like talk me through those feelings. Right? And how you, you worked your way out, like tactically you shifted and, but like, like your mindset, how did you work your way out of it?
- [11:32]
Matt Orlich
So in life you can't control what you look at, but you can always control what you see. And I had to look towards the future. I had to look at the positive in that scenario in order to get me out of it. Like, cause I was, I was fucked. Like, you know what I mean? You built that business for seven years and if anyone knows anything about import wholesale business, you don't see any of the money. You can consistently reinvest the money into more stock the retailers pay you 120 days later. I didn't see any of that stuff. I was paying myself like four grand a month, you mean for like seven years. And when that happened, it's just like you start questioning whether you're right for business or not. Then you have your mom, your parents to tell you like, hey, maybe you should get a job, do you mean? And then you have to battle against those, those types of belief systems. So for me, I had to find other narratives that would push me forward and allow me to restructure my thought process to give me a growth mindset. And that's why I said before, like, I started reverse engineering other founders who lost heaps of money. And I started seeing how could be a positive impact on my life. You know, if I, how can I bounce back from this? It's actually going to push me forward and learn something. Because the victim mentality, like your inner world, creates your outer world. If I keep seeing a victim mentality, that's all I'm going to reflect in my outer reality. So then I just had to be a positive mindset from then on.
- [12:44]
Nathan Chan
That's not something you can just turn on though, right? Like it comes down to your daily rituals, your daily non negotiables.
- [12:52]
Matt Orlich
Yeah.
- [12:52]
Nathan Chan
What, what, what shifts did you make to focus on your mindset, not be a victim? Because many founders would have given up. Like, what, what did you do? What, like what changed? And you said you start, did you study founders? Did you get a coach? Like, I really want to go deep because this is like, this is key.
- [13:10]
Matt Orlich
Yeah.
- [13:10]
Nathan Chan
And not enough founders talk about this stuff. And like I said, this is not sexy.
- [13:15]
Matt Orlich
Yeah. Yeah, Nagia. So I think I had a fundamental understanding of psychology and how reality creation worked, which worked in my favor. So essentially, we perceive information from the outside world, right. By all our senses, based on information, it goes into our consciousness and we interpret that information. From that, we create belief systems. The belief systems can create conviction, like in terms of thoughts and actions, and we have the result. So it's everything is about how we interpret the information that we get from the outside world that's going to create our beliefs, that's going to create our actions and create results. And because I had the fundamental understanding, this is why when information comes into my mind, I'm aware of it. And I'm aware that how I interpret it is going to create different beliefs, create different actions. So if I allow myself to interpret the information in a negative way, I'm going to create negative beliefs and negative actions. And it's just that awareness of knowing what my mind is doing and stopping it and creating, reprogramming and firing new, like wiring new neurons into my brain that allowed me to get out of that situation. Does that make sense?
- [14:10]
Nathan Chan
Yes.
- [14:11]
Matt Orlich
It starts with self awareness. And you have to understand that you are the creator of your new reality. Literally your, your life is just your thoughts and images expressed. So the More thoughts, images you express that's not in alignment with your desired reality. The more you're going to manifest that into your life. No matter what happens into your life, you have to be conscious of your unconscious thoughts.
- [14:30]
Nathan Chan
But that's tough.
- [14:32]
Matt Orlich
Yeah, like anything else, right? Like going to the gym, like building business. But it's the most important fundamental thing you should be focusing on. Because if you. Because in order to change the fruits, you need to change the roots.
- [14:43]
Nathan Chan
But in life we are constantly moving around unconscious of we are not conscious. Like this is something that I've become interested in over the years. Like it's easy to forget. Yeah, like it is so easy to forget. You get caught up in the day to day when you're running. It's like, so did you, so you, so you started with the awareness. Did you develop any daily rituals non negotiables to help rewrite your mindset as well?
- [15:10]
Matt Orlich
Yeah, most definitely. I think that the I do 4D daily non negotiables, I've kind of created that it's the mind, body and spirit. Because I think Stephen Covey even mentioned this. He goes, in the future there's not a CEO that doesn't integrate the mind, body and spirit that won't be successful. And I think that's more true today than it was back 30 years ago. You need to holistically integrate those things in order to be successful entrepreneur. So part of that ritual is obviously the nutrition, right? Because if we believe that thoughts create our own reality, then things like eating the right foods creates a thought, changes the thoughts we have, which will create a reality. Exercise changes our thoughts, changes our ability to interpret the information into a positive way. Then stuff like journaling because you are not your thoughts and you be able to throw all your thoughts on paper every morning. Just stream of consciousness allows you to see that I'm not that Jimmy. So that's like. And then that's, that's a reflection stage in terms of spirit. And then the mind, you obviously have to read something. Personal development, you acquire different philosophies, like that reality mechanism I mentioned to you before and start learning from the great people in terms of the way they thought, their belief systems and try and acquire that. Because I think what people don't realize is that we all have money blueprints, right, that we absorb from our parents. And you're potentially one money blueprint away from success. Meaning that when I was 18 years old, I remember vividly telling my friends I was going to make 200k a year, buy a mama car and work 3 days a week by the age of 25. Now. They laughed at me. They called the waiter over like, look what this idiot saying. They're not my friends anymore. But the reason I'm saying this story is because why did I say 200k and why did I say three days a week? Because a mentor of mine at the time, when I was 18, that was his reality. And I acquired his money blueprint from him. And I thought that was possible. My previous money blueprint was my parents work the nine to five, work 30 years, pay off the mortgage. Right. So people don't understand they've acquired these money habits, money blueprints from their environment that's probably not serving them. And that's the only difference between myself, Elon Musk, besides some intelligence, Richard Branson, etc.
- [17:07]
Nathan Chan
Okay, man, this is crazy. I didn't think this interview is going to go this way, but I like this direction. Yeah, I'm going to keep going with it. So you talked about money blueprints and you talked about there was a point in time where you were making a lot of money with your business, but you didn't feel worthy. Yeah, talk to me about that. Talk to me about what the business was, the point in time, how long you've been building businesses. Like, like how did you work that out and talk me through this? Because this is another really important thing that nobody talks for sure.
- [17:41]
Matt Orlich
For sure. I think I was about 29 years old and it just dawns me one day that I just wasn't fulfilled. I felt empty. And for whatever reason those. There was a moment in time where I knew that if I made an extra million dollars, I would not feel any better. I just intrinsically knew that at the time. I probably had nine different businesses at the time. Yeah, at one stage I had 13 at my max running at the same time, which was not a great idea. But at the time, I think I had nine businesses. And I just realized, hey, I'm not fulfilled. I'm not gonna get any happier if I put another million dollars next to my name. I need to go on a spiritual journey and work shit out for myself. So. And the only way to do that is to leave everything behind. So I didn't work for three years. I left all the business under management. I said, I'm not working until I work my shit out myself because I can't change live like this. It just was tormenting. You're working 10 hours, days. You don't know why. Nothing feels good anymore. You're like, numb to any success, numb to any deals. And I had to develop feelings again. Like, I just wasn't feeling anything. I was like, numb. So some people might say it's depression, I don't know. But I look at it from new perspective. It's just like a notification that I need to change. So that's why I took the three years out. I started working with the top psychotherapists in the world. Health people, spiritual people, trying to absorb everything about the self. Right. To understand. That's why that one concept that I mentioned before, the authentic versus inauthentic money came in. But amongst that, I learned a lot of other lessons. But I knew that if I was going to live a life that I was happy, fulfilled with, I had to create a life of limitless creation. One that I want to get up every morning and work 9 to 5 and not care about the money and not care about the success and the results. I had to seek validation within myself, not the external world.
- [19:22]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, I see. So three years is a long time.
- [19:25]
Matt Orlich
Yeah, a long time. Yeah.
- [19:26]
Nathan Chan
So what period was that?
- [19:28]
Matt Orlich
From 29 to 32. I'm 35 now. Sudden. It's like six years ago.
- [19:32]
Nathan Chan
Okay, all right. So you obviously had the business, was the businesses were successful enough that you had a strong leadership team in place, correct? Yep. Okay. All right.
- [19:43]
Matt Orlich
I actually made more money when I wasn't in the businesses, funny enough. That's another concept to speak.
- [19:46]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, look, that's a funny story. You often hear that, don't you? Right. If you got a strong management team, leadership team, and you actually get out of the business and get out of the way. But it depends on the founder, correct? Right. It depends on the founder. So I get the feeling that you're the kind of founder that is quite creative, have a lot of energy, good on strategy, product and marketing, but probably the mechanic side, not so much. You think the people management side, the people that.
- [20:13]
Matt Orlich
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [20:14]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, yeah. So you find that there's kind of, from my experience, there's a couple of founders. Is either one side, like Steve Jobs, who's the hustler, and then you've got Wozniak, who's the hacker. But then you also have that third archetype, more mechanic side, but you need either two or those three or one of those two to complement each other. Yeah, yeah. So, okay, so what are the things that you learned over the three years? Like, that's a long time. So you didn't work at all?
- [20:45]
Matt Orlich
No, no. I might have checked. Couple emails A week, but no more than like 30 minutes a day.
- [20:51]
Nathan Chan
So what were you doing? Were you traveling around the world? Were you single? Like.
- [20:54]
Matt Orlich
Like I was single. I got my skydiving license. I started skydiving all around the world. I tried a lot of plant medicine stuff. I just. I just experimented, right? Like, because I don't even know what I like, what I don't like. Because in life we have to experience everything I believe in the, in the fringes, and then bring it back to what you think, you know, you like and you don't like. At the time, I really didn't experience anything besides business. How do I know even like business? Like, I started from such a young age of 17, so for me it was just a moment to go crazy, do everything that I didn't do, the complete polar opposite, and then see where that lands me. And that's why today I'm have so much peace and doing what I'm doing because I've pushed the boundaries and everything else, and that's why I'm about to operate and at such a high frequency. I think today, and why the companies are doing better today is because I'm better as a person.
- [21:40]
Nathan Chan
Okay, so you talked about. I want to go back. We didn't quite get there around the money blueprints thing and the fact that, that you didn't feel worthy about the money that you were making. When was that the case? And how did you rewire and work on that piece of the puzzle?
- [21:58]
Matt Orlich
Yes, that's a good question. I think that was about 29 when I realized that was kind of happening to me. Also sturdy when an actual psychologist told me why I felt like that, that concept of authentic money versus inauthentic money. And I understood that the stuff I do, I was doing wasn't intrinsically motivating. It was all to achieve a certain number. So then if it's all to achieve a certain number, then my internal validation is tied to that number. And in a world where you see everyone doing stupid numbers here and there, you see one person doing 100 million and you're not, then you think you're worthless. Do you? I mean, because I'm tied to that number, I'm not doing any other reason than the number. So now the playing field for me is just about numbers. And I'm comparing myself to every other number in the world. And you can't feel good about your situation when you're doing that. Right. You know, comparison is a thief of joy. So if that's my data point, then I'm fucked. But if you create a business where it's authentically driven and intrinsically motivating based on the mission that you're creating and that sense of meaning attached to it, I can't compare someone making $100 million in crypto to me because he doesn't care about the crypto. I know he's chasing the money. I'm saying, so I'm playing a different game now where I'm playing games against myself because my interests are going to be completely unique to me, what I want to do. And that's how I was able to re engineer my internal mechanisms to actually live more filled life. Because now I'm not playing anyone else's game. Playing my game.
- [23:18]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, I love that. But some people watching this or listening would be like, well, that's easy to say, Matt, you've done really well. You've done, you've put yourself in a position where you don't have to work. It's easy. Like, what would you say to that? Like for founders that are in the.
- [23:36]
Matt Orlich
Early stages, the same shit money you're making now doing something you don't like, you can make it doing something you like. Like in reality, in psychology, the breakout point is $100,000 a year. Meaning that there's a lot of research showing that after $100,000 a year, the level of fulfillment from making more money than that like dramatically decreases. That's like the breakout point for living a certain quality of life. And for you to make 100 grand a year doing something you love is extremely easy. Extremely easy. And I guarantee you'll make, you'll have more filled life making a hundred thousand dollars a year doing something you absolutely love and passionate about than making a million dollars, something that you hate. Because one thing that I noticed as well in my journey is that you start to self sabotage yourself. Because think about this way, if I don't like the business I'm building, why would I want it to grow? That requires me working more on the business that I fucking hate doing. And a lot of us entrepreneurs like myself would self sabotage. I would go partying. Every time I made a bit of money, I'd go partying. I'd ruin myself because intrinsically I didn't want to keep growing that business because I hated building that business. And you see this, I see this a lot with people that I coach. And the really thing I just work with them in is re establishing belief systems and their pattern of life. Because I think that's where all the.
- [24:41]
Nathan Chan
Juices so talk to me about cure. Right. Massive growth. You've been in the game for a long time, though. What do you believe were some of the key things? How did you start sourcing the product?
- [24:53]
Matt Orlich
Yeah, so we developed the product from scratch. But I think the main takeaway for Cure is there's four different leverage points when it comes to E Commerce. Right. Four leverage points when it comes to E Commerce. To make any brand successful. One is product leverage. You have to have a differentiated product in the market in order to gain leverage because there's a flywheel attached. That way, if you have better product, you can get better influences, you can create better marketing and everything else. The second is audience leverage. Now, that means acquiring someone else's audience to get a negative cac. Setting up with influences, giving some influencers potentially equity in your brand is a great way to do that. The third is margin leverage. Today you need 70 plus, if not 80% the gross margin. You just need it. Right. If you don't have it, don't do it. And then the fourth one is OPEX leverage, Operating leverage. I set up the office in Croatia, which we spoke about offline, which has fantastic people and a fraction of price anywhere else in the world. So I have all those four leverage points in a cure. And that's why we are successful today.
- [25:51]
Nathan Chan
Yeah. And you're the co founder, are you CEO?
- [25:57]
Matt Orlich
Yeah.
- [25:57]
Nathan Chan
Okay. Okay.
- [25:58]
Matt Orlich
So, well, myself and my sister, like, co CEO.
- [26:01]
Nathan Chan
Okay. Co series. Okay. Is your sister based in.
- [26:03]
Matt Orlich
She's based in Sydney, Australia. Yeah. She's the brains behind all the products. Like, this one thing I learned as well, like, without her passion, the business wouldn't be where it is today. If it was just me, it wouldn't be where it is today. You know, her heart is so entrenched into that brand more than any other founder I've ever seen in my life, because we have something that was so authentic to her. She cares more about the brand than her future kids. You know, I mean, like, it's just. It's. It's insane. I've never had that level of passion for a company in my life that she has.
- [26:29]
Nathan Chan
What's it like working with your sister?
- [26:33]
Matt Orlich
Like anything, Highs are very high, the lows are very low. But ultimately, I think it's rewarding. It's just understand each other. Like, she worked for me previously. She ran a couple of brands, so she was one of my best employees.
- [26:45]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, you laughed and said the highs are high and the lows are low. What, what are some of the lows?
- [26:50]
Matt Orlich
The lows is when you're arguing, you know, when you're not on the same. On the same level. When I know what's right for the. I think what's right for the business. She disagrees or she disagrees with my leadership style, my management style. And then we block each other on WhatsApp, and we don't talk to each other for a day or two. You know what I mean? There's stuff you go through and you got to work for that shit. And the worst thing is sometimes we live in the same house. So we blocked each other on WhatsApp, but we're living in the same house, you know, I mean, but then the highs are amazing. You know, this, like, to do that with your sister, the person you care about the most in the world, is one of the most fulfilling things also.
- [27:21]
Nathan Chan
Yeah.
- [27:21]
Matt Orlich
And we're just two completely different people, which also makes it slightly harder.
- [27:25]
Nathan Chan
Yeah. So out of your. You said you started 20 different businesses. 20 different businesses, but you've been doing this for 18 years. Cure is your most successful.
- [27:35]
Matt Orlich
Yeah.
- [27:35]
Nathan Chan
Okay. All right. And, you know, you. You've just. You've just acquired tens of thousands of hours in business. Like, do you believe that the 10,000 hour rule exists?
- [27:49]
Matt Orlich
I do believe it exists, but I would. I wouldn't want to have it in, like, one skill. I believe in being a generalist has a lot of. A lot of benefits today. And you need to have a long. A large skill set in a number of different areas. Like, the reason Cure is built today so quickly is because I had 10,000 hours in different avenues, not just marketing or not just product development. I mean, I understand the whole spectrum, which gave us a unique point of view that no one else had, which able to create a brand that no one else could, and that's what formed it.
- [28:16]
Nathan Chan
Yeah. So this is an interesting thought, right, because, you know, we have a lot of founders in our community and they say, oh, look, should I outsource content creation? Should I, you know, pay a web developer to build my site? And I'm always of the opinion these are core, fundamental skills that you, as a founder, you need to learn, and you need to lean into it. Like throwing money at those particular problems, it's just wasteful. And. And then, like, you have to go back to them now. Look, I. There's one skill that I'm still in two minds. I don't think I need to know it, but I don't know how to run. I don't know how. I don't know how to do Media buying. I don't think it matters at this point because it's so much creative.
- [28:56]
Matt Orlich
We can do it for you.
- [28:57]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, but like, you know what I mean? Yeah, like. But I think there's some other key skills. Like I'm really going deep on copy now. Like we have copyright founder, but like I want to be a better copywriter because I think it's a fundamental skill. So in saying that, what are the core skills as a generalist or an early stage founder that you think are fundamentally key in this market, especially with you pair AI as well.
- [29:26]
Matt Orlich
So it's a great point. I think that people don't understand the business they're in. Founders don't understand the business they're in. When I see a founder with a generic product outsource marketing. Big no. Why? You are a sales and marketing company. Your ability to sell and market that generic product the same that everyone else's has, like a supplement is what different you from the rest. So how can you outsource it? There's different ecom brands that are more product development founders. Okay. They can afford to outsource sales and marketing because their product development. Now, in terms of the skill set they asked me, it's definitely creative strategy. Definitely creative strategy. I think this is like the most unique skill set that any founder can make. So much so that I believe that you can build a $10 million business today of organic creative, not even paying for ads. That's how important creative is for an ecom brand. And I've seen it done. I've seen it done. And our big initiative next year for CURE is to go organic first and not paid ads, to not rely on pay ads. We're going to humanize the brand. We're going to invest so much money in content creation organic. And I've seen it done. Victory is a great example of it. I think high smile. I've done it extremely well.
- [30:34]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, we did. Big interview with them.
- [30:35]
Matt Orlich
Yeah.
- [30:36]
Nathan Chan
Did you seen it?
- [30:36]
Matt Orlich
Yeah, I watched it. Yeah.
- [30:37]
Nathan Chan
It's good.
- [30:38]
Matt Orlich
Yeah. Yeah. And until you know, it's their organic stuff, that's what drove their business to whatever billion dollars or whatever they were. I don't know what is was their organic marketing engine.
- [30:47]
Nathan Chan
Yeah. They are very, very good at creative. It's crazy what they've been able to do with the team out of the Gold Coast. Right. You and I are both from Australia. We both know there's not talent there. You're from Melbourne. Yeah, like that. Those are the real talent pools. But it's crazy. Like they Must have a crazy culture. Yeah, like that. That's, like. That's one thing I know is, like, you can work out anything if. If you find. If you put your mind to it. So you need to find people that have that same mindset, and they must have that in that culture to be able to do what they do, because they're playing at a very high level out of the Gold Coast.
- [31:20]
Matt Orlich
Oh, yeah. It's phenomenal.
- [31:22]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, it's crazy. So. So talk me through your actual strategy. Like what? Like, what does that look like? How much content? How do you know what's good? What does it look like to test it? Like, actually talk us through it.
- [31:35]
Matt Orlich
So. And also, if anyone wants, like, an SOP in terms of creative strategy, I'm happy to provide our internal one. Just message me on Instagram.
- [31:40]
Nathan Chan
But.
- [31:41]
Matt Orlich
But I think for us, we're fortunate that we built multiple product categories. Another reason why CURA is successful. I'm in led. I'm in water filters. I'm in microneedling. Other people have sold businesses in those categories. So I've got, like, three businesses in one, which gives me a lot more things to talk about. But. But essentially, we have education where we do problem story teach. Right? That's a. That's a big one for us. And then we just try and replicate that across all the different product categories, and there's no real systematic process. You have to just throw so much at the wall that you can find patterns, understand what sticks. Now, I spoke to someone at High Smiles trying to approach one of their content creators. Now, whether this is true or not, she told me there was no teachings from them internally. She said that we just saw in the account what worked, and we iterated on it. So the only thing you can. The best you can learn is from yourself, and that just comes from taking shots on goal. Like, if you're not creating two videos a day, then you're not really putting any effort in.
- [32:34]
Nathan Chan
You also said that you're big on mentoring and coaching, and you said you've spent about half a million bucks. Is this in the past year on coaching or probably like, three or four years. Okay. Yeah. All right. Well, then I don't know if I. Look, I've spent hundreds of thousands, maybe. Yeah, well, a million bucks on coaching and all that kind of stuff. I'd say in the past three or four years. So when it comes to coaching, where do you think entrepreneurs or founders should be investing their time when it comes to, I guess, learning?
- [33:05]
Matt Orlich
Great question. So you have to apply, like, the Biggest skill any entrepreneur can, can learn is the art of prioritization. Right. They have to apply the theory of constraints and understand where the constraint is the business and solve that one problem. And then what they do once they have that problem they're looking to solve, they reach out to someone who has solved it, who has two steps ahead of them and they get coaching from that person. That's what I would recommend. And, and you do it per problem. Do you mean you don't go holistically like a life coach or anything like that? You want to find someone that's done what you're looking to do, couple steps ahead only, and pay them to help you solve that problem. So you take the learnings from their past and just accelerate it. It's as simple as that.
- [33:41]
Nathan Chan
Dude, that's why founder exists.
- [33:43]
Matt Orlich
Yeah, exactly. Right?
- [33:44]
Nathan Chan
Like that's the biggest life hack. Yeah, it's the biggest life. So, but, but why do you think.
- [33:50]
Matt Orlich
That people don't fork out the money? Why would someone go out, spend a ,thousand dollars or $2,000 on a purse or a bottle of vodka and ivy, but then not want to pay that for a coach?
- [34:00]
Nathan Chan
It's because they are so skeptical if it will work for them. And I think you and I know the power of investing in yourself, but for others, they just don't do it. They'd rather, they would think if I was spend 2, 3, 4, 5, 10 grand, whatever it is, I could spend that on ads.
- [34:21]
Matt Orlich
Yeah, yeah.
- [34:22]
Nathan Chan
You know, yeah, like, like that, that's, that's where the mind goes.
- [34:25]
Matt Orlich
Yeah, like, like the ads won't be efficient.
- [34:26]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. So talk me through the theory of constraints because I like, not everybody's familiar with this process.
- [34:35]
Matt Orlich
So the founder of Amazon, he actually. What's his name again? I'm going to mind blown.
- [34:42]
Nathan Chan
Jeff Bezos.
- [34:43]
Matt Orlich
So Jeff Bezos gave this book called Goal to his leadership team. It's one of three books he gives them and the book Goal is based on the theory of constraints. It was a guy that took over his manufacturing utility from his parents and he had the outcome which is like the end production line. And he understood that he had to find the constraints in the manufacturing system in order to unblock them and produce a better outcome. So that's all it is. It's looking at your outcome, whether it's product sales or marketing, and looking at the constraint. And you do that by asking yourself like, why can't you 10x the business today? What is the one thing stopping from 10x in business today? Then once you find that constraint, you go to solving it. You solve it with internal resources, AI or external. They're your three options. And the reason why QA successful today is because I created this training in house which I try and train every single individual to understand the theory of constraints. They can all do it within their lane and I've got even SOP that I can share if they message me on Instagram. But essentially, if you train your whole team so consistently, work on theorem constraints, that is strategy, it's utilizing your limited resources against unlimited options. Right. And find the one option that's going to accelerate you forward by finding what that constraint is in your business.
- [35:52]
Nathan Chan
So you got a lot of answers, man, you got. Sounds like you seem to really work things out. What's, what's your biggest constraint right now? What's holding you, what's holding Matt back from building a hundred million dollar your business?
- [36:05]
Matt Orlich
Time.
- [36:06]
Nathan Chan
Time.
- [36:07]
Matt Orlich
I don't doubt I'll do it. It's just time. And what I've learned is that putting time like constraints ruined me. When I was younger, you know, I had my vision board, I want to be $100 million by 30 by this and that. You can't, you can't decide how, when it happens. You can decide the how, like what, but you can't put a timeline on when because there's too many variables. And I know that if I stick to my daily non negotiables in terms of what I need to do as an individual, every single day I detach from the outcome. I live in a moment of peace knowing I've done what I need to do. That allows me to operate at a higher frequency, that I will attract that stuff into my life. But the problem is a lot of people, they put these constraints in terms of when they need to make the money because I want to buy something, so something Instagram or Twitter, which then you start operating from a place of lack. You don't have this thing, you don't have this thing which then detracts from your life. But if you live every day in that moment and just do daily non negotiables, shop every day for work, deep work, nutrition, your exercise, everything else you're able to detach from the outcome, then you can live it in a piece, knowing that you will get it. It's just a matter of time.
- [37:10]
Nathan Chan
So your, how are you planning your goals for 2025? You and I talked about, you know, personal brands of focus, but like, yeah, talk me through that. What does that look like?
- [37:20]
Matt Orlich
Sure. So I have a goal for the year, right. I set the goal, then I unlock.
- [37:24]
Nathan Chan
Resources, revenue target, top line.
- [37:26]
Matt Orlich
Yeah, it'll be top line, right. And I'm like, how am I going to achieve that goal? Right? And then I unlock resources. So I'm gonna do an organic content engine to unlock that resource. Then I started hiring consultants. I've got two agencies, consultants me on how to to do that. Then I create standards and input output equation, meaning that what can I input into the system for a period of time that'll be unreasonable, that I won't make that revenue. And for us, it's like if we post four reels a day across all channels is unreasonable, that after a year we won't grow to, you know, hundreds of thousands of following, whatever. And that's the way I operate. And then I just focus on those daily standards and that's it. And I disconnect from everything else. It's the standards that you have to focus on. And I think as individuals, as a company, you have the ceiling of where your standards are and you have the floor. You don't rise to level of your goals, you fall to the level of your standards. So it's important just to raise the floor. Same with working out. Same. Anything else if you're working out is like on a bad week I do twice a week and a good week I do seven. Your job is just to raise the floor. Like on a bad week it's four and a good week at seven. That same business. So we're just consistently improving our systems and processes and raising our floor of the company, you know, in terms of personnel and everything. You know, how B plays become C players and we get rid of the C players and then we get new A players and we just keep doing that cycle over, over again.
- [38:43]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, and you said something interesting about time. You're patient and you said that it's going to happen, but it's just a matter of time. When then how does that relate to your goal for the year?
- [39:02]
Matt Orlich
So goals are there just to give you a North Star. The goals are there for you to only create a new version, a better version of yourself. That's why we have goals. Life is about being and becoming, right? Not acquiring and possessing. And when you understand that, it's like, did I get better this year? Cool. Then that's the real goal. If I don't hit the numbers, I don't care that I stick to what I said I was going to do. Am I better that I learned more? Sure. Then there's a Win. And I think a lot of people today don't understand that if you grow 20% year on year or 30% year on year, you are a world class company. Like relax, like it's fine. I even slowed down the growth of cure this year. To be honest. I slowed it down 20% because I'm here for 20 years. Why would I want to put stress on the ecosystem, on the team, on the company? For what reason do you mean I'm healed? To build the foundations and make sure everyone's happy. Where customers are happy, our team's happy, it's unnecessary. Like we're making money, life's good. And I think that a lot of people chase the revenue. Cause I want to post a Twitter post, an Instagram post. But ultimately, you know, the quicker you grow, the quicker you can fall.
- [40:05]
Nathan Chan
I agree with that. Yeah, yeah, I agree. So you also said that only like in terms of paid advertising. A lot of ecom brands rely on paid ads and you've talked about having that. I guess diversification for your revenue engine. You're not relying on just one channel. I've been there, I've been hit hard and it's. It's brutal. Right, right. So talk me through founders in the early days. What's the best channel from your experience they should be focusing on to get traction. And then how do they know when to start diversifying? Because then you can also spread yourself too sheen and it's a balance.
- [40:49]
Matt Orlich
Yeah, definitely meta. Right. But if I was gonna give advice any founder at the start it'd be unlock organic before you go to paid and then and then put paid behind what's working organically, you know. And I just don't think a lot of people are doing it like I know so many brands. Midday squares as well done. Fantastic was just done Founder content personality behind the brand is another chick that in Australia some clothing brand. I can't remember top my head. But she's done the same thing where she get the office involved and she builds character personality to the brand. She's going a brand just like that where it doesn't quite any skill sets, a bit of creativity and a bit of personality. So I think if I was starting again today I'd go organic first build especially if you have no money requires zero money, just time because that's what you have in terms of resources. I'd go all in organic, figure that out and you'd be super profitable and then you can reinvest the profits into.
- [41:36]
Nathan Chan
Paydads that I agree that's the Way to go. When it comes to content, you learn to craft and then you work out what works and it's now paid as a creative game. It's just the way to go.
- [41:47]
Matt Orlich
Yeah.
- [41:48]
Nathan Chan
So you said at peak you had 12 different businesses or 13?
- [41:53]
Matt Orlich
13, yeah.
- [41:54]
Nathan Chan
What were they?
- [41:56]
Matt Orlich
So I have the manufacturing of Umbra, their apparel brand. I have Pro Sports Group which we were the largest in football equipment in Australia. I had Skywalkers as electronic bikes. I had the Easter eggs for Manchester United Liverpool. I had the tattoo removal laser clinic. I had the digital marketing agency. I had a headphone brand called Sports Beats. I had iPhone accessories brand called Juice Up. I had Airbeats which was Bluetooth speaker brand. I had a retail supplement store called elite subs. There's 10. What else? I'm missing some. It was a while ago.
- [42:31]
Nathan Chan
That's okay. Okay. How were you operating? And was that, was that when you were coming from a place of self validate, like not like lacking that self validation?
- [42:40]
Matt Orlich
I think it's a perfect example when you, you're not right yourself, it extends to your business and how chaotic I was internally, reflected that externally by doing a million different things. And the way I was able to do it is by transformational leadership. So two different types of leadership, right? Transactional and then transformational transactions like this, how I started, I hire people, I tell them what to do, I check if they've done it and then I tell them what to do next. You get burnt out and then transformational is like I give you an outcome, we measure the results and then I coach you. And by the second transformational, you can run, you can manage fucking a huge team like that, right. So I'm just coaching people where before was very transactional. And I think what I realized today, which I didn't even back then, is that before was like I hire people to do the job I tell them to do. Then I upgrade that mindset to no, hire better people that are better than me to tell me what to do. But what I understand today more than ever is that millionaires build systems, billionaires build people. And my job is to create the container and build the people to build a business. I work for them. When someone comes to me now, I work at their five year goals and I try and make sure their five year goals can live inside the company. And I'm helping coaching them. So now I work for them. And that's where my mind shifts. Really changed.
- [43:49]
Nathan Chan
Interesting. So at that point when you had the 13, 12, 13 different businesses, you were still a transformational leader.
- [43:57]
Matt Orlich
Yeah.
- [43:57]
Nathan Chan
Yep. Okay.
- [43:58]
Matt Orlich
I had to be. Otherwise I couldn't have operated all 13, you know.
- [44:01]
Nathan Chan
Yeah. Okay. But that's still insane. Even the thought of operating that many different businesses. So you still like, you still had the work to do and you still do right now, like it never stops.
- [44:13]
Matt Orlich
Yeah, definitely that time. Yeah. I was working stupid hours because I didn't have enough resources individually in the company to. To be super profitable. So I had to spread resources across all companies to try and be more efficient, which I thought was better back then, but obviously it's not.
- [44:27]
Nathan Chan
Got you. And then you moved to Croatia.
- [44:30]
Matt Orlich
Yeah.
- [44:31]
Nathan Chan
You set up an agency there. How big's your agency?
- [44:34]
Matt Orlich
Agency is not big. We're very boutique. Probably have like four media buyers.
- [44:38]
Nathan Chan
Yeah.
- [44:38]
Matt Orlich
You know, and about 25 clients. Because the media agency is an extension of me and my personal brand. It's all referral. We've never done really any marketing.
- [44:44]
Nathan Chan
Yeah.
- [44:44]
Matt Orlich
You know Marin, the head guy that took Woody from 4 to 250 million, he's like a partner now. He does an amazing job on Twitter in terms of educational content.
- [44:50]
Nathan Chan
Yeah.
- [44:51]
Matt Orlich
But it's just like referral. Friends and family, essentially. They come in.
- [44:53]
Nathan Chan
Yeah. Got you. So you guys used to do the media buying for. For the Audi?
- [44:57]
Matt Orlich
Messy.
- [44:58]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, we have mutual friends through. Greta introduced us. You said you've done some work with Davey and stuff. So when it comes to, I guess you talked about time. What are your other challenges that you're facing right now that you're working through?
- [45:12]
Matt Orlich
It's just belief systems, you know, like what does someone who has a nine figure brand believe that I don't to be true and how are they operating? Because that's all it is, you know, like I'll give you a stupid maybe example. Richard Branson has assistants that run his life. Literally filter all the information, high level things and make decisions for him. Where this founder who's doing a million dollars a year can't get an assistance. Read the emails just like, oh, it's too private. They're not going to know, Jimmy. But that's just a mindset shift. You look at someone like John Maxwell is the go in leadership. He has someone that's head of word that tracks every word he says and writes his own books for him. He doesn't write them, Joanne. So these are things that just belief systems and unlocks I'm not aware of yet that don't even know what stopped me. And I'm just trying to work it out along the way. And I think that's only different stop me from being here to a billion dollars. Just what I believe to be true. And how am I operating?
- [46:01]
Nathan Chan
So have you mapped out your goals on building a billion dollar brand or becoming a billionaire?
- [46:07]
Matt Orlich
Sure. I think that's cure. That's the path at the moment is through cure. Yeah. But once again we don't hit it. It doesn't really bother me. It's more about how much better am I as a person every single year and am I enjoying what am I doing. As long as those two are intact, then I'm okay. But to be honest, I probably work about two, three hours a day on CURE only.
- [46:24]
Nathan Chan
Yeah.
- [46:24]
Matt Orlich
You know, I think a lot of my efforts now is probably calendars through education, helping the next lot of entrepreneurs moving forward. And I need to show people as well, you don't need to work a lot of hours. If you set the business up correctly, have the right systems, the people and education in place, you shouldn't be the one building the business because that's not really a valuable business. Then the people that build the business, then that makes it a valuable business.
- [46:44]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, I agree. Well, look, dude, I could talk to you all day. This has been a ton of fun.
- [46:48]
Matt Orlich
No, likewise.
- [46:49]
Nathan Chan
And yeah, I love the direction this interview went, especially around mindset is stuff I've never really talked about to people, stuff I'm thinking about always. Yeah, I'm curious. What? Is there any questions that you wanted me to perhaps ask you that I haven't asked you or what are some other things that you think founders don't talk about enough that you wanted to share and we'll work towards wrapping up.
- [47:15]
Matt Orlich
I think I just probably leave everyone with a framework in terms of you have a limiting belief. Like if you create an outcome. I want to make a million dollars a year. Ask yourself what beliefs do I have that's getting in the way of achieving that million dollars a year is I'm not good enough, I'm not smart enough, whatever it might be. And there's three parts to unlock that belief. First one is how do I know this true? Like where do I have tangible evidence that this belief is true? Second one is that when this belief starts to happen because sometimes we reverse it back to a moment in time where we acquired the beliefs as one experience can change our belief and our thought patterns forever. And the third is what will need to happen for this belief not to be true anymore. And then if you do that for all your belief systems and re engineer them in a way that's going to get you towards Your outcome, then that's going to be the biggest personal growth, better than any strategy, any tactic you could ever, ever hope for. And to leave everyone for practical example, I self sabotage myself a long time being ultra wealthy because I had the belief that ultra wealthy people are miserable, right? And people have had this before. And when I asked myself this, when I went through this framework of what evidence I have to be true, do I actually really know someone that is miserable? Probably not. The second one is when that I know it to be true was when I met a billionaire back in Greece. When I was in Greece like five years ago and he was telling me a story how he made $900 million, bought a yacht for $100 million, parked it in the bay, and then he saw the yacht next to him was bigger than his and he got depressed. So then he told me that story and he sold everything and now he plays guitar on a beach, fucking as a hippie. And I acquired that like without even knowing. I'm like, I don't want to beat that. That sounds fucking horrible, right? And then I was like, so what do I need to do in order if it's not to be true anymore? When I need to do work where I just love doing so much, that comes from a place of giving back and self transcendence that I don't care about the money. I mean, and there's people that have done that and that's how I broke through that belief system. But for a long time I was self sabotaging myself from being ultra wealthy. I started part you, you party, you self sabotage, eat shit food. These are all mechanisms of down regulating your frequency and self sabotaging yourself success that people aren't even aware of.
- [49:13]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, no, look, I, I love that last piece of wisdom. And look, this is, this has been a great interview. Thank you so much for your time. And where's the best place people can find out more about you and your work?
- [49:27]
Matt Orlich
I think Instagram's probably the best place. And YouTube. I'm dedicating like 50% of my calendar moving forward to creating content that could help entrepreneurs so they can follow me. Then hopefully I can help them.
- [49:36]
Nathan Chan
Awesome. Well Matt, thank you so much man.
- [49:38]
Matt Orlich
Thanks for having me. It was awesome.
- [49:39]
Nathan Chan
Hey guys, if you love this episode, make sure to check out my interview with Trini Woodall on how she built a die hard community of followers backing her every single move. With Trini London, the true beauty of.
- [49:52]
Matt Orlich
Our community is that there's a passion and we inspire a passion for them to make the most themselves.
- [49:58]
Nathan Chan
But that community itself fosters, you know, lifting up women.