563: From $500 to 120 Stores - How She Lost It All | Kristina Karlsson

Summary

Episode Summary: The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan – Episode 563: From $500 to 120 Stores - How She Lost It All | Christina Carlson

In Episode 563 of The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan, Christina Carlson shares her rollercoaster journey from launching a successful stationery brand, Kiki K, scaling it to 120 stores across six countries, experiencing two devastating business collapses, and ultimately reinventing herself as an entrepreneur focused on coaching and personal growth. This candid and inspiring conversation delves deep into the highs and lows of entrepreneurship, emphasizing resilience, passion, and the power of dreaming big.

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1. Introduction and Initial Challenges [00:00 – 01:36]

Christina Carlson begins by recounting the darkest day of her entrepreneurial journey when Kiki K went into administration. Despite owning a $100 million valued business, unforeseen challenges led to the company's collapse, leaving her contemplating despair. However, her entrepreneurial spirit ignited a resolve to start anew.

Notable Quote:

"The easiest options would have been to just disappear and be depressed. That is when I decided regardless who was going to pick us up, I said I had enough. I'm an entrepreneur. If I've done it once, I can do twice. I'm going to start again."
— Christina Carlson [00:16]

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2. Building Kiki K: From Concept to Global Brand [05:45 – 09:00]

Christina shares the inception of Kiki K, inspired by her passion for Swedish design and the lack of aesthetically pleasing stationery products. Starting with a modest investment of $3,000 borrowed from her partner, Paul, she opened the first store in Melbourne in 2001—a challenging time due to global uncertainties like 9/11. Nevertheless, her vision propelled Kiki K to expand to 120 stores across six countries, emphasizing authenticity and high-quality design.

Notable Quote:

"I have no idea what to do with my life. So I was really lost... I was really excited and I rushed home to Paul and I said, I know exactly what I'm going to do. I'm going to open up beautiful Swedish design stores specializing in stationery."
— Christina Carlson [05:45]

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3. Scaling Challenges and Strategic Decisions [11:36 – 15:15]

As Kiki K grew, Christina faced critical decisions, including bringing in private equity to facilitate global expansion and appointing a professional CEO to manage the burgeoning business. At its peak, Kiki K was valued at over $100 million. However, the partnership with new private equity and the evolving global landscape posed unforeseen challenges.

Notable Quote:

"The drive for me as a founder and as a visionary was that I felt like we did so amazing, like so many amazing products and we run it as a fashion business... I thought we just have to open up around the world."
— Christina Carlson [11:42]

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4. The Impact of COVID-19 and Business Collapse [14:07 – 24:45]

The onset of the COVID-19 pandemic acted as a catalyst for Kiki K's second administration. Christina describes how ongoing global crises—such as bushfires in Australia, Brexit, and lockdowns—exacerbated operational challenges. A pivotal moment was when a potential acquisition by a Chinese manufacturer fell through due to the pandemic, leading private equity investors to withdraw support and push the company into administration.

Notable Quote:

"It took about two years to do this... when Covid happened, the Chinese manufacturer who was about to buy us pulled the deal. And that's really why we went into administration."
— Christina Carlson [14:07]

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5. Embracing Failure and Rebuilding [24:45 – 38:44]

Facing the collapse, Christina chose resilience over despair. Drawing inspiration from personal losses and her commitment to personal growth, she decided to rebuild rather than succumb to failure. She established a new American partnership, maintained control over the global brand, and pivoted towards a more manageable business model focused on coaching, journaling, and personal development.

Notable Quote:

"You know, if I lose everything, if I lose my relationships or business or anything, you always have yourself to go back to... Investing in yourself, personal growth, you know, learning and health and well being."
— Christina Carlson [32:24]

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6. The Power of Journaling and Personal Growth [56:56 – 70:27]

A significant portion of the conversation centers on Christina's journaling practices, which have been instrumental in maintaining her mental well-being and fostering creativity. She outlines her morning ritual inspired by Julia Cameron's The Artist's Way, emphasizing the importance of unloading thoughts, setting intentions, and maintaining focus through structured journaling.

Notable Quote:

"The most beneficial is never being burnt out. Because those three pages in the morning, I put anything that is bothering me, instead of whining and complaining, I put it on paper and I just throw it away."
— Christina Carlson [61:47]

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7. Building and Reinventing a Brand in the Modern Era [47:14 – 51:57]

Christina discusses the evolution of brand building, highlighting how technological advancements like print-on-demand have transformed the manufacturing landscape. This flexibility allows for greater creativity without the burden of large inventories. She underscores the importance of authenticity, passion, and continuous innovation in sustaining a brand's relevance and appeal.

Notable Quote:

"Authenticity, being real, using it, you know, really spending that time on your brand is probably the most important."
— Christina Carlson [51:57]

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8. Dreaming Big and Setting Visions [70:53 – End]

In the concluding segments, Christina emphasizes the significance of dreaming big and setting a clear, inspiring vision for one's business and personal life. She encourages entrepreneurs to envision their goals without the constraints of fear or limited resources, fostering an environment where ambitious dreams can become reality through strategic planning and community support.

Notable Quote:

"The number one thing that really made us go global is dreaming... dreaming is thinking outside the square, doing. Thinking about stuff that you want to do, a business you want to create or something you want to achieve personally without knowing how to make it happen."
— Christina Carlson [73:24]

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Key Takeaways:

1. Resilience in Entrepreneurship: Christina's journey underscores the importance of bouncing back from failures with renewed vigor and a strategic vision.

2. Passion and Authenticity: Genuine passion for one's product and authenticity in brand representation are crucial for long-term success and customer loyalty.

3. Adaptability and Innovation: Embracing new technologies and flexible business models can provide significant advantages in a rapidly changing market landscape.

4. Personal Growth and Well-being: Maintaining personal well-being through practices like journaling can enhance creativity, reduce burnout, and sustain entrepreneurial drive.

5. Visionary Leadership: Setting a grand vision and dreaming beyond immediate constraints can propel a business to global heights and inspire teams to align with overarching goals.

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Conclusion:

Christina Carlson's story is a testament to the enduring spirit of entrepreneurship. From struggling with the fundamentals of starting a business to scaling it internationally, facing monumental setbacks, and reinventing herself, Christina exemplifies how passion, resilience, and a forward-thinking mindset can turn challenges into opportunities. Her insights offer invaluable lessons for aspiring entrepreneurs aiming to build meaningful and impactful brands.

For those interested in learning more about Christina's journey and her approaches to personal growth and brand building, listening to the full episode provides a deeper dive into her strategies and philosophies.

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Note: This summary is based on the provided transcript excerpt and podcast information. For a comprehensive understanding, listening to the full episode is recommended.

Transcript

[Christina Carlson]

It was probably the toughest day of my life because we, we just went into administration. That was just the hardest day of my life. Like the day before, I was up 24 hours just to try to find a way to rescue us.

[Nathan Chan]

What was the business valued at at that time?

[Christina Carlson]

Over 100 million. When we went under, I was like the easiest options would have been to just disappear and be depressed. That is when I decided regardless who was going to pick us up, I said I had enough. I'm an entrepreneur. If I've done it once, I can twice. I'm going to start again.

[Nathan Chan]

She lived the dream every founder wanted. Scaling a startup into a hundred million dollar global brand.

[Christina Carlson]

And then she lost everything twice. What she's learned since might just change.

[Nathan Chan]

How you think about business failure and success.

[Christina Carlson]

This is Christina Carlson starting again. It's been a humbling experience. We put all our dollars back into the business so we had nothing in the end. And the great way of being an entrepreneur when you start is having no money because you just have to be creative and you have to come up with ideas that you wouldn' do. When you have a big team and a lot of money in the bank.

[Nathan Chan]

What are the three things that you've taken now that you're putting into dream life?

[Christina Carlson]

You know, number one, passion. Passion for the product and being authentic and being real and living and breathing the brand. But the most important is to hear the stories, learn the proven methods and accelerate your growth and future through entrepreneurship. Welcome to the founder podcast with Nathan Chan.

[Nathan Chan]

Christina, thank you so much for coming down to our studio. This one's been a long time in the making and I've got my phone here because I want to read out an email. It's from someone called Mark and he responded to one of our team members and it was 10th March 2020 at 10:34am he said hello, I hope you're well. I'm really sorry for such late notice on this but unfortunately Christina is not going to be able to partake in our in interview tomorrow with Nathan. Is it possible to look to reschedule at some stage? Once again, apologies for the short notice if you've prepped the team accordingly. What was going on on the 10th of March 2020.

[Christina Carlson]

What a great start. So. Oh gosh, that was, was probably the toughest day of my life because we, we just went into administration and as you know, as a founder, as a business owner, it's, it's the last thing you want as a business owner, as a founder and, and as an entrepreneur. I never, ever thought I would be in that situation because as an entrepreneur, we are resourceful, we try lots of different ways and we never, ever give up. And that's kind of how I think we, we survived as a small, you know, small startup to a multimillion dollar business, global business in six countries. So that day was the worst that I could possibly ever have imagined. And we were telling the team and the day after it was all coming out in media because I remember it really quick, really vividly because it was my son's birthday, 12th birthday, and he was like, do we really have to do this on my birthday? And it was obviously out of my, out of my control. So not a great day and really tough day saying that it's been a while now. I am in such a great space, space now. I learned a lot. I, I've seen so many silver linings in this, even though it was the hardest thing I've ever gone through. And the good thing is when you invest in yourself and you work on yourself all the time, you. You never lose the experience, the growth, the knowledge. Hopefully some wisdom there. After being in business for a long time and I am back starting, started a new business and I love my new business even more, which I could never even have imagined. And I think us as entrepreneurs and founders, we, we can't even imagine another business when we're in a business. And that was the same case with me. But now I absolutely love it and I get to do different things and, you know, still do my journals and I have a new brand in, in stationery. But my passion is really coaching and personal growth and, and you know, developing and living, you know, my dream life, whatever that is for me and for everyone else, I'm teaching that my big dream is to inspire 101 million people to write down three dreams and go and chase them.

[Nathan Chan]

Yeah. So there's a lot I want to unpack here, Christina.

[Christina Carlson]

Yes.

[Nathan Chan]

So that email was five years ago now where we were going to do this interview and a mutual friend of ours said, nathan, you've got to speak to Christina. She's got an crazy, incredible story to tell Post Kiki K. So for everyone watching listening to this talk, I want to ride back to the start. So when did you start Kiki K? Because it's an amazing brand. My mom is a massive fan. The brand still lives. Yeah, the brand still lives. But you know, you're not, you're not active anymore and you've had to go into administration two times. Right. So I want To. I want to go through all of that. Yeah, but how did you start Kiki K? Because he's incredible, incredible company.

[Christina Carlson]

So I grew up in Sweden and I, I grew up on a farm and I never got to travel. So my dream as a kid was always to see the world. So that's what I did after school and I met my partner Paul in a ski resort in Austria and that's what brought me to Australia. And when I came here. This is before Internet. It's hard to believe, but I was really lost. I had no idea what to do with my life. So I was whinging and complaining a lot. And one morning at I woke up my partner Paul, I think for the fifth time saying what I'm going to do with my life. So I. He was a bit overhearing that. So he said, why don't we write down what is important to you? So I put my dreams back on paper. I put my dreams on paper back then and it was five things. I wanted to drive to work every day, loving it. I wanted to have a business on my own, but no idea how, how and what. No experience in that. And then I wanted to have a connection with my country, being Sweden. I wanted to work with SWED design because that's one of my passions. I think when we start businesses we need to be passionate because we go through, through so many ups and downs that it's really important to be passionate what we do. So that's what I wanted to do in terms of Swedish design. And then I wanted to make $500 a week and that was based on making money enough to pay rent and food and go to Sweden once a year. So when I had that list, and that's why I'm so passionate about dream, dreaming and really just start to think about what's possible for you without really working, even if you have no idea how to make it happen. And I looked at that list and I thought, I'm going to start my own business one day. So I'm going to start with setting up my home office because I have no idea what to do. So I might as well start with creating a beautiful environment, an inspiring environment. And I went out back then there was just nothing around in terms of stationery or home office products that I loved. It was a price driven category. You know, you had, you know, the news agents, officeworks, my David Jones, that's really what, what was available. And I went out to buy some products and it was really depressing is probably not the right word, but it was like really average and boring. So I got a bit down and then I got really excited and I. I rushed home to Paul and I said, I know exactly what I'm going to do. I'm going to open up beautiful Swedish design stores specializing in stationery. And Kiki K is my nickname. And I just put that one night with a friend who's a graphic designer. I said, I'm thinking this, you know, did a bit of a drawing on the Soviet after lots of red wine for all of us. And that logo, you know, still is alive today. And. And I just started with creating. I borrowed $3,000 from Paul and created some products and then I wanted to open retail stores. To make a very long story short here, I wanted to open a store because I fe. Felt I was a very visual person and I felt like I wanted to create something different that hadn't been seen before, and I needed a store to do that. So convince Paul to sell his house to open the first store.

[Nathan Chan]

Wow.

[Christina Carlson]

And that was in 2001, and that was a challenging time for retail and for everyone in the world because 911 just happened. And here in Melbourne, Daimaru, the Japanese department store, were just about to close. So, yeah, so it was just a, you know, probably the worst time to open in retail. But I think sometimes the worst time is the best time to open because if you make it happen, then, you know, then you would probably survive for, you know, for. For a longer time. So that's really how it started. And, and then we got to 120 stores in six countries. So we opened in Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Hong Kong, the uk we're also in the Middle east. And we had an, I mean, a few fascinating journey, like I had no idea about anything. And I learned so much by doing, by working with mentors, with coaches, reading lots of books before podcast came in and, and just had an extraordinary life in terms of entrepreneur and entrepreneurial journey. Journey getting my kids involved in the business. They're both little entrepreneurs now, and it's just extraordinary. And lots, lots of success, but also lots of challenges like any business, but we don't often hear about them. And I was probably the same. I didn't share as much many of the challenges because often people are interested in the incredible success that we had for so long. And, and then 2016, we, we took on a. We, we just to backtrack a little bit. We had a lot of different investors, so we had private equity that, that, you know, started with us and then we bought them out we had private investors, we had friends and family investing that was like every possible way. We funded it and worked really well with, with all of them until we took on a new private equity and we signed our, you know, our rice away in some way. But we did that with a lot of thoughts and a lot of discussions. And so it wasn't just something that we do lightly. We, we looked at every opportunity to, to grow globally. So we wanted to open the UK and the US and we wanted to take on a bigger private equity and we also wanted to have a CEO because Paul wanted to step away and really get a professional CEO in to, to run the business globally.

[Nathan Chan]

And, and what was the business valued at at that time?

[Christina Carlson]

Just over 100 million.

[Nathan Chan]

Yeah.

[Christina Carlson]

Okay. Yeah. So it was, it was an interesting and you know, looking back to an interesting time, but it was something that we were really excited about. And, and the drive for me as a founder and as a visionary was that I felt like we did so amazing, like so many amazing products and we run it as a, as a fashion business. So basically products came in and out all the time. And as a product developer and, and the passion for product, I'd always felt sorry that not the whole world got to see what we created. So the drive was never around money for me or you know, the growth for the sake of it. I was just so passionate about putting the products out there. That's really what drove us into go global. You know, in hindsight sight, it would have been much better to, to stay local but. Or you within this side of the world. But as a Swedish person, when you move to Australia, Australia feels so far away and I think if you can make it in Australia, you can make it anywhere. That's kind of, that was the way I saw it and I thought we just have to open up around the world. That was the drive. And, and we obviously, we obviously did. We got to five countries and, or six countries and then we sold online globally. So then we, we hired a couple of CEOs. First one didn't work out, but. And the second one didn't work out either. And this is something, you know, both of us been in eo, it's an ongoing discussion in. As an entrepreneur, I think it's really hard to get it right. And I felt like we did everything that we possibly could to do the background work to make it work and it didn't work. It was two individuals that was not right for our business. You know, we obviously hired wrong. And during this time we also had a Chinese manufacturer knocking on our doors a few times to. Wanted to buy us. And I just loved our business. And I just couldn't even see my life without the business. So it was like, no, we're not interested. We're not interested. And he just kept coming back. And when we started to talk with them, I just realized what an incredible partner they would be because they were probably the best manufacturer in China and in the world for what we were doing.

[Nathan Chan]

Yes.

[Christina Carlson]

And. And they. Their interest in our business was to open thousands of stores in China, which wasn't so interesting for me in terms of. I didn't really. I didn't really care so much about the number of stores, but that meant that we would have got. You know, he was a. He was a very successful manufacturer and businessman. And I felt like that would really give us the. The foundation to really go global. Because if you open thousands of stores in China and with a great manufacturer, you automatically have better margins for the rest of the world. And things just gets easier because manufacturing is a. Is a. It's a hard thing to get right. And so we got a little bit excited about that and we made a decision to sell to them, saying that me and Paul were gonna hang on to a small percentage and actually look after the rest world.

[Nathan Chan]

Yes.

[Christina Carlson]

So it was an exciting opportunity.

[Nathan Chan]

And just on that. Can you share the details of that deal?

[Christina Carlson]

Not really, because I actually can't. I can't quite remember all the details. But. But what I do can share is we. We signed the term sheet.

[Nathan Chan]

Yes.

[Christina Carlson]

And. And it was an exciting opportunity for us. And then. Then it took about two years to do this. It took quite a lot of long time to kind of get it. All the negotiation, all the kind of thinking. Yeah. And all the details how we're going to integrate the business. But we saw. We signed the term sheet, so it was kind of a done deal, was just working out all the details. And as an entrepreneur, I'm not very patient with due diligence. And. And. And all the background work is just not my strength and not my excitement. So I was really excited about just getting this deal done. And I was in Germany with the Chinese team just before COVID hit, and one of the ladies from the Chinese team, she said to me, I'm really worried about this virus. And I've been around for a long time, and I've been. I've seen a few viruses. So I was like. I was like, no, that's. I'm not worried about that. You know, I've seen viruses Come and go. And I, I, and I'm also positive, optimistic person and I'm also a healthy person. So I said, let's just go and get some multivitamins and let's get on with this deal. And that was covert. And during this time, we were also dealing with, you know, retail is difficult as it is. We also had the bushfires in Australia, we had Brexit in the uk we had all the issues in Hong Kong. And it was kind of the perfect storm. It was just, you know, challenges everywhere. And, and when Covid happened, the Chinese manufacturer who was about to buy us pulled the deal. And that's really why we went into administration, because we had, we needed more funding and the private equity who was controlling our business at the time decided not to continue that because they were ready to step out and look at other investments and getting a check and move on. So they put us into administration. And as we started early out, that was just the hardest day of my life like that. The day before, I was up 24 hours just to try to find a way to rescue us. And I knew the whole time that someone will pick us up. I just didn't want to go into administration. I'd never been in administration administration before, but have a few friends who've been through that and seen what damaged us to the brand, to the individual, to, to the business. So I was really trying to not make that happen. And when it happened, it was just, it was so hard and so, so, so tough. But on the back of my mind I, I knew that someone will pick us up. And this is also when Covid was happening. And you know, here in Melbourne, we had crazy lockdowns. And you know, I, me being Swedish, I, you know, I had half of my head in the Swedish news trying to work out all this. And in Sweden, you know, they dealt with it very differently and, and we've gone, went through the administration and it was done in, in the best possible way. You know, they. I've gone through two now and, and the first one was done in the most perfect way in terms of our investors. And we all did it together and follow the best, best possible protocol to go through that together. And then we had a few options for us to start again. And we went with a American business that invested in us and bought us and we were going in a partnership with them, so shareholders as well. And we did a deal over Zoom. They were a stationary brand as well over there. And I was excited about the potential for the US So we did that over Zoom saying that it's never easy to do a business deal over Zoom because especially for a brand who's very purposeful and. And put values very, very high on the. On priorities in terms of getting the right fit for. For business partners, but also employees and obviously investors. So it was not an easy thing to do. But we were. We felt like that was the best match for. We started with a brand from America and this was in the middle of lockdown, and we. Most of our stores were closed and we were obviously doing online, but we were also dealing with administration. And for anyone who's gone through administration, starting again is really hard. It's like running in mud. It's. It's like much harder than starting a new business because, you know, you have to start all the new business, new bank accounts, and because you have no credits, you know, all. It's all closed for you. So just really hard. So me, Paul and the team work basically around the clock to turn the business around. And we had a lot of things we needed to change and do, and it was also really exciting, but also really hard. And this was also when most of our doors were closed to manage the team and manage all the challenges that came with COVID outside of the business with. With employees and. And people dealing with all sorts of challenges that came with COVID So that was a hard year, but, you know, grateful and excited to have a second chance. And then we were creating products and. And, you know, you know, continuing and changing at the same time. And then by June, we. We invest heavily. We need a lot of money to put into product for the holiday season coming up. And that's been something that we've done for many, many years. And we always need a pile of cash coming into the business and go through Christmas and then we'll pay that back. And that's always been our cycle and, and we were just waiting to get that money in from our new business owners and we got a call kind of out of nowhere saying we, we are. We are losing faith in the Australian government and we are not sure if we're going to open, you know, properly by Christmas. And this was like, back in June, and I was like, seeing what Sweden were doing and. And other countries were doing, and also knowing that it's no way you can continue running a business like this. Like, no one's going to be in business if you're gonna. We're gonna keep closing like we have. So I just said, hey, I think. I really think we can invest now because just I really truly Believe that we're going to be have doors open at Christmas. And you know, there was just me, there was a team and Paul and everyone's kind of view except the Australian business owner. And they decided to put us into administration number two. And that was even worse because it was done in a non traditional way. You know, it was kind of out. They put us in, in a bit of a. We were just not aware what was going on versus with our previous partner. We always worked so closely and had, if we had a challenge we sold it together versus them. Just went ahead and put in some administrators that were the most awful people. I hope I never ever running to those people. I'd never met them in person. I hope I never will. Awful people. And just, just the most awful thing to go through a second time. And that is when I decided regardless who was going to pick us up, the brand is still alive and it's still going now. But regardless of who was buying it, I said that I had enough. I'm an entrepreneur. If I've done it once, I can do it twice. I'm going to start again. And the business got sold to a new Australian business and operates now. But I have nothing to do with it and that was really hard to decide. But I, I, as an entrepreneur I am not good to, to I like to be in control what I'm doing and also I have started, I started my first business and I thought I just, I'm just going to do it again in a different way which I am now and that's what I'm doing. And you know, five years on I love it. I, I just, I love the freedom that I have now. Much smaller team. I brought a couple of people from my previous team that I love working with. I can work from anywhere. I, I am so passionate about helping people live their dream life. I love coaching. I started a book club and a new stationary brand. So I, I, I'm doing what I did before but in a much easier way and much more enjoyable to where I'm at now. Saying that I love my time for 20 plus years at Kiki Gay but now I am so excited about the future.

[Nathan Chan]

Yeah, you have a crazy wild criminal story. So much that I want to unpack there.

[Christina Carlson]

Yeah.

[Nathan Chan]

Okay. So I love to hear the numbers and I know that our audience and community love to hear the number. So what can you share? Like when, when you were going to sell to the Chinese manufacturer, what was the business value that then there was.

[Christina Carlson]

Just about over 100 million.

[Nathan Chan]

Okay, okay. And then Obviously, you know, you had to, had to sell it and you know, you know, all these business, we went into administration, all these business come in like then what was the business sold for?

[Christina Carlson]

I think, I can't remember what it was, but I think it was like 8 million or something. Like nothing. Yeah, yeah. And the. At the end, I think that's what it was. And, and I'm not sure what it was on the, on the second one because I'm not sure, but it was nothing. And you know, we got a lot of opportunities to sell over the years, but I was never driven by that. Like, I, I didn't start my business to just make money. I started a business because I wanted to drive to work every day, loving it. I love creating products. So every time we had someone showed interest in buying us, it was just never something that I wanted to do. And, and I knew that one day we will sell for more money than I would ever need. And I love my life so much that I wanted to make the most of every day. I'm not wanted to wait until we sell one day and make lots of money. I wanted to live every day and I took out enough money to, to live an extraordinary life and to travel the world. And I involved my kids in the business and travel with my kids all the time to all the stores that we open and, and had an extraordinary life. And that was much more important to me than making a lot of money and still is. I definitely, you know, having lost everything in terms of we put every dollar back into the business always, because when we needed cash, we, we were always the ones that were happy to put in cash because we knew the business. And you know, funnily enough, when I sometimes thought, you know, we could, we could, you know, we did a lot of transactions and took out some money. And then I thought, what, what am I going to do with this money if I take out more? And I'm like, the only thing that I know is our own business and that's the best investment.

[Nathan Chan]

Do 100.

[Christina Carlson]

Yeah. So that's kind of always a decision that we made. And you know, in hindsight, should I have done that? You know, maybe not. But, you know, I'm an entrepreneur. I can make money. I know how to start a business and I'm just, you know, starting again. It's been a humbling experience because, because we lost everything in terms of we, we, we put all our dollars back into the business so we had nothing in the end. And the great way of being an entrepreneur, when you start is having no money because you just have to be creative and you have to come up with ideas that you wouldn't do when you have a big team and a, a lot of money in the bank. And, and I've done that twice now and it's the most exciting time. And I often talk to people because I have a lot of people coming to me asking for advice in the startup phase. And I always tell them, enjoy the journey, even when it's hard. Because when we opened our first stores, that was the hardest. Had no idea I'd never been in retail. Never. I didn't know anything about retail and design or anything like that. And I just remember it's being so hard but so fun. When we open our 120th store, it wasn't as exciting because after a while you get used to it and, and it was never about that destination. It was about enjoying the journey. And I think that's the, you know, for our listeners today. If there's one thing to remember. Well, there's a couple of things, but one is definitely to really enjoy the, the, the process and the progress that you're making because once you've made it in terms of the safety, when you get into that kind of safety where the business is humming and you know, we always have ups and downs, but when you are likely not to, to lose it in the, you know, the first year or the fifth year or whatever, then it's not as exciting. And that's why I love startup. And you know, we got to a very, you know, we had amazing team and a big team. When I started again, I had no idea, you know, I was just like, I don't know how to do all this. And I love learning, I love growing and I, I'm a doer and you know, I'm a big visionary, but I'm also a doer, so, so I'm just doing it all. Not all on my own, but you have a very small team, me and Paul and a few others. And it's fun and crazy and hard.

[Nathan Chan]

Yeah, I, I can really resonate with. As your company grows, you look back on the early days. Like for me, we found it when I was building out of Mike, you know, my parents basement, I had a falling out with my housemate and then I went, you know, all in eventually. And I was doing my parents basement. I used to, I used to work from like, you know, in the morning till 3am and then I'd go to sleep, no alarm clock, wake up at maybe like 10am, go upstairs have breakfast with my family, then go back downstairs, do a ton of work. It was some of the funnest times. I remember like pitching Seth Godin going to sleep at like 3am and then just randomly waking up and seeing an email from him at 7am and he's like, can you do it now? And I'm like, like. And it was like in 15 minutes. Like I had 15 minutes to spare and I just jumped on. I was like, bag. Like, like those were the, those are some of the times where you just look back so fondly.

[Christina Carlson]

Yeah, absolutely. And it's the hardest of times because you're tired and you're exhausted and, and you know, I, I remember, I remember sitting up our first door. Like I was up all night and I was so excited and it was so fun and I had no idea about retail and I learned so much. And then I remember Paul saying to me once, there will be one day where you're not going to set up the stores. And I was like, don't be ridiculous. I'm going to do all of them. But by the time we got to 40, you know, I had so many other things to do that, you know, still was, wasn't on my agenda anymore. So, you know, enjoy it and, and you know, even when you work hard, it's so fun to do that startup phase.

[Nathan Chan]

Yeah. And you know, the crazy thing is as well is at the time it feels really hard, but then when you fast forward time and you look back on it, you don't remember as hard. It doesn't, it doesn't feel as bad, does it? It's a weird feeling.

[Christina Carlson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Nathan Chan]

One thing that we were talking about before we started him record was this idea of failure. And you said not enough people talk about failure.

[Christina Carlson]

Yeah.

[Nathan Chan]

And you really, you really want to champion that, like. Yeah, I'd love to hear more.

[Christina Carlson]

Yeah. And you know, I want to say that I actually don't think it's failure until you don't get up anymore. So. You know, Arianna Huffington said it in a really great way. You know, failure is not the opposite of success. It's a stepping stone to success. So obviously I had a lot of failures along the way. When I, when I say failure, it's like mistakes or, or things that I wish I didn't do in terms of, you know, you know, making the right, wrong decisions in terms of stores, hires, investments, all those kind of things. But in, in my, in my view, it's not really failure if you keep going and you learn from it.

[Nathan Chan]

Yes.

[Christina Carlson]

And and even now like my big, big failures in terms of losing the business, that's probably the one thing that as an entrepreneur you never ever want to do. But even in that there are some, some, some silver linings and you know, we became a really big business and we became almost like a corporate kind of. I never really worked in cor. I have spoken to a lot of corporates in terms of speaking and I, and also worked of course with a lot of corporates and I never ever wanted to become a corporate business because I think the entrepreneurial spirit is what makes us so, made us so unique to start with. And we had on our wall in our office, we had a, a quote, don't say no, say how. And I believe that is the number one thing that made us not fail in the first year because we could have failed so many times. It was really hard. Like I used to do the cash flow and I used to be thinking who can I pay first? Like over the employees that needs the money the most. And I was like, it was so difficult. And then the fee, you know, I think it's within five years. I don't know what the statistics are now but you know the failure right rate is really high. Don't say no, say how is what really made us survive. I think because there were so many no's, there were so many things that we did that was not the normal way of doing. Even when we, when we had our first investor coming in, we made everything in Australia to start with because we were just a small little business. And as soon as we got our first investment in terms of private equity, we started to produce in China. Everyone told me who had experience, they said there's no way you can do those kind of quantities. And I was like, don't say no, say how. And I just negotiated and I am ways about win win in relationships, in, in, in life and in business and, and we just worked with them and just said hey, if you guys are with us for a long time, we're all going to win. You just need to help us now with smaller quantities, better margins so we can grow and then you will grow with us. And you know, we, we became one of the biggest suppliers for our biggest customers to some of those suppliers. So, so there is no such a thing as failure unless you completely give up. And when we went into administration the first time, but the second time specifically, I decided not to go down with the business because I have seen some of my, my EO friends going into depression or disappearing for a couple of years and losing confidence and faith in their business ability. And you know, I have seen, I have friends who sold for billions of dollars and I have friends who lost their business. It's a very fine line. We could have, we could have made a lot of money. We could have been, you know, very, very, very well off right now if we did that deal that was on our table that we signed for and it was just a really unfortunate time. And you know, we had a lot of things that we needed to fix in the business. I'm not taking that away. But we could have been in a very different situation right now. But when I made a decision when we, to not go down with the business, it was one of the best decisions that I ever made. Because, because when you, when you invest in yourself and you believe in yourself, you can always start again. And that's why I'm so passionate about personal growth. Because I invested a lot in my own personal growth throughout the years. I invested a lot in my health and well being. And I always thought if I invest in myself, if I, if I, you know, if I lose everything, if I lose my, you know, relationships or business or anything, you always have yourself to go back to. And I think if you back yourself in terms of investing yourself, personal growth, you know, learning and health and well being, then, you know, you can keep going even in the hardest of time. And when, when we went under, I was like, you could, you know, it would, the easiest of options would have been to just disappear and, and, you know, be depressed. And I was like, no, my life is worth so much more than this. And there was a friend of mine who passed away in cancer a few years ago. He was also in EO and he was also a retailer, Danny from Blue Revolution. And when he passed away, it was, he was in my entrepreneurs forum and it was just so hard. And I put his photo on my vision board to remember to never take life for granted and to really appreciate whatever I need to go through. So when I went into this administration, I thought of Danny and I thought he would do, do anything just to be here. So that's kind of kept me going. And then I thought, you know, I'm an entrepreneur, I can do it again. What else can I do? And during the time in the last couple of years in the business in the, in Kiki K, my, my passion went from design, which always was the, the drive to start with, to really much more interest in the content that we created. So the goals journals, the gratitude journals, all the workshops that we Created and I started a podcast and I wrote a book that has now sold over 100 million. Not 100 million, sorry, 100,000 copies. But that's incredible because I just had this idea that I was going to write a book and then, then, you know, I, you know, I'm not. I never saw myself as a writer or an author, but it's just incredible what you can do when you put your mind to it. And it's been extraordinary to now start again. But we're did only take in the things that I really love because as you know, my. I started my business when I was 22, so now I'm much older, a little bit wiser and. And I just want to have a really small business now. Global business. We're already global, but smaller, more manageable, where I'm in complete control.

[Nathan Chan]

And you find as your business grows, you. It becomes bloated and yeah, it becomes this constant thing that you have to kind of manage now you've got that foresight and opportunity to kind of go, I'm going again. How would I do it? How would I rewrite everything? And now with, you know, the introduction even to AI and agents, like, I was talking to a guy this morning who's like, we're looking to work. Like, he can build agents for so many different things. Like, it's insane.

[Christina Carlson]

It's amazing. And you know, it's.

[Nathan Chan]

You don't need a big team.

[Christina Carlson]

No. And in the way AI, like, it's just incredible what you can do now compared to what, what I, I did and, and you know, so, so for anyone listening when, when you think about starting a business, a lot of people say it's really hard now because it's so crowded, because it's. The barrier to entry is not as hard. But saying that the, the knowledge, like I had to learn everything from other people or from, from reading now you can just get it in, in a few seconds. It's just unbelievable. It's such an exciting time to be alive.

[Nathan Chan]

I agree, I agree. And you know what? I really appreciate you sharing your story about your friend passing away because I've actually, unfortunately had one of my best friends pass away. So we went to kindergarten, primary school, high school, university and traveled all around Europe together. And unfortunately, yes, we, we grew up together. And unfortunately he died of cancer. And you know, I still have his photo up on my desk. And like, sometimes, you know, I go through hard times and I said, I've even written messages, my mum, like, you know, this is really hard right now. But I think of Aaron like he would have given anything to be in my position. And I think that's such an incredible perspective that you have around any challenge, no matter how hard it is. So I just love to explore that a little more. Like a lot of businesses do fail. A lot of founders give up. A lot of businesses don't pass that one year or five year mark. Now there's various reasons to that. There's, you know, choosing the right product, just coming up with a product idea that you haven't validated and you create something that nobody wants. You're not good at marketing. Right. You can't get people to find you. I'm curious, like, do you believe besides all of those things, the number one thing is just this, this mindset, the ability to just have that grit to keep going.

[Christina Carlson]

Yeah. And to find a way. I think it's like, you know, that don't say no, say how. Served us so well. It was really annoying for an employees. I hated it because they like, we got no. And then I was like, nah, let's find a different way and let's keep going. And, and I think this is where it comes in. So, so as you said, we, you, you need a great product or a great business. Like that's just a, like that's just the foundation. Know it doesn't matter what your mindset is. So that's just like a given. But once you have that, it's about that ability to, to just keep going when it's hard and just go one more time when, when you just think you can't go any further. And I think that's when the passion comes in. Because I always talk about the importance of. And there's a lot of different views on this, but in my view, if you're not passionate about your business and your product, when it's, when you have to go that last time when you think you can't, you, you don't have more within you, you don't think you can do it any further if you're not passionate about that product. It's just, you just don't have that. And I remember, I remember a lot of my friends living here in Melbourne, went to the races and, and you know, I'm any, you know, I'm an extrovert in, in the business, but I'm really an introvert in terms of, of. I love spending time on my own. I love creating products. I love, I love my work and my business so much. So I could easily spend a whole weekend just working and I remember my friends were going to the races, and, you know, it was always hard to get the best passes. And we got them, and then cage, we got all of that. And then I was like, I'm actually gonna stay home and tidy up our warehouse. And they're like, what? And. And I was like, I just love it. I just got me that way of thinking. And, you know, I loved catching up on orders that we didn't have time to do on the Friday and all those kind of things. And it was a passion. And I remember also having our first private equity. And I remember them coming in and we were signing the deal, and they came with like, I don't know, six people. And it was just me and Paul there. I was like, how much is this meeting cost anyway? And I remember just about to sign, and I just heard the door downstairs, and I just said, excuse me for a second. And I knew samples came in and it was new erasers and pencils, really simple, you know, stuff and notebooks. And I just got so excited. I was showing the team and we opened the boxes, and we're all so passionate about it. And they're like, oh, my gosh, she's about to sign, you know, the deal that she's never done before, and she's worried about the pencils and the races. But. But I just said to them, that's why you're investing in us, right? Because we are so passionate about the product. We're so passionate about the customer, and we love this. And I think that is the foundation that anyone starting the business, you. You definitely want to make money because otherwise you won't survive. And you definitely want to live a good life and that nothing, nothing takes away from that.

[Nathan Chan]

That.

[Christina Carlson]

But the most important is to have a product or a service that you absolutely love, that whatever happens, you. You are so passionate that you know nothing else that really matters. And that's what I felt like we had. And also another thing that I think made us stand out and not going under in the first year or the fifth year was that having that amazing vision. So I'm a big visionary. I dreamt big. I wanted to be in every favorite city in the world of mine. And yeah, I even put clocks up with all the time zones. Excuse me. We even put clocks up for all the time zones to remember that's where we're going from all our favorite cities. And we had a vision to be a global business, and we had it on the wall. So every time someone came up to meet with us, we show Them our vision, you know, to be a global business and to, to really, you know, have something kiki k in every stylish life was kind of our vision in terms of having products that were really useful and, and inspirational in people's lives. And we took our investors there, we took suppliers there, we took, took employees there and we always had this amazing vision. We might have been really at the beginning stages we had this vision and the vision kept us moving forward in the hard times and also when we got too many opportunities because we, once we got established we could have done a million things and we probably did too many things in hindsight. But you know, it kept us going and it kept us really focused on this is where we're going and this is, this is where everyone needs to focus on when we have all the ups and downs but also the shiny old objects on the side that often came along.

[Nathan Chan]

Yeah, I want to switch gears a little because our audience and community, they have challenges around manufacturing, finding the product, talking about dream life, right. As a new brand, you know you have a massive unfair advantage because you've been doing this for many decades. But how would somebody go about like creating a stationary brand? There are a lot out there, you know, you also have an unfair advantage. You come from a Swedish background. Swedish are incredible designers. You know, that's what they do best. You look like I've interviewed some other Swedes around product and you guys, no one does product like, like you guys. So, so talk me through, like how could somebody approach it? How did you approach dream life? Like what was the moq? How did you find the manufacturer? Did you go back to your old one? Like talk me through some of the details.

[Christina Carlson]

There's the most exciting thing is that since we started in the beginning, the manufacturing was the old fashioned way and now we have completely done it in a different way. So we used to sit with millions of dollars in stock and that's amazing if you are having a good year, but also really stressful if you're not having a good year or if you have the wrong products in the wrong country, etc. So I didn't want to be in that situation again. I didn't want to take on investors starting again. So we have now developed a new software and this is why it's so exciting to start a business in today's world versus when I started the first business because we have, we now print on demand. So that was impossible, you know, 20 years ago. And it's amazing what you can do now. So the dream Life Store, which is an online business where we, we have journals. We just done a collaboration with sorry, Breast Cancer Network Australia, bcna and we used to have people coming in, going through a tough time, diagnosed with cancer, depression, going through divorce, lost someone. And people often came to us because I think we were a, a place that people love to come to in terms of making them feel a bit better. But most people came for a journal because when you go through a difficult time, journaling is really powerful and we can talk more about that later. But that never, never, I never, I never forgot that. So when I started again I was like, I really need to do journals because I journal every day, I journal every morning. It's really how I, I, I feel like I never really got burnt out because I never really had things in my head. We can talk more about that. But so I am, I, I thought we just have to do journals again. So we developed this software where we can print on demand. And the most amazing thing with that is that also in a retail store and even online, you can only do so many products. You only have so much cash to put into products, but also you can only put it, you know, there's not, you know, unless you have a, you know, a massive story, there's not space for everything. When you print on demand, you can have as many designs as you possibly want. And we used to discuss colors for months because we needed to get it right. We needed to not make something new, but not too dissimilar from last year for a success, if it was a success. So it was a real debate all the time about the products. And now I can have 300 different pinks if I want to. And that's an incredible, incredible way of doing business compared to what we did. And so we now print on demand. Obviously the margins is, is lower, but we don't sit with stock. If we create something that's not selling, it's not the end of the world. And it's just, just, it's just so amazing. So for anyone who wants to start something, there's different ways of doing it now. And I also believe that if you want to go the traditional way in terms of creating it in China, because obviously the margin is much higher and you know, if you don't want to make a whole store worth, that might be an option to do. And it's just so easy to find manufacturers now. The way I'm finding manufacturers is really like, really any relationship work with to towards a win win and find people who have similar values to you. I wanted to work with people who were authentic, who put quality first. And you know, we were super picky when it come. When it came to quality, we certainly had our issues and we certainly picked some wrong ones. But that's how we learned to really focusing on, on good quality. And you know, I, the, the manufacturers in the beginning hated me because I used to go and just say, we need to redo this, we need to, to perfect this. But you know, that's how we became a quality brand. So today's world you can do so much, there's just, there's no. And also you don't have to choose one way or the other. You can try different ways. And with AI and with, you know, the open sourcing now, like, it's just, it's just so easy.

[Nathan Chan]

Yeah, I agree.

[Christina Carlson]

It's so, you know, can I just add to that? Because manufacturing is not the problem, it's now creating a brand. So, so I think that's that one. You can get help with AI, but you have to put in what makes you unique and makes you special and makes it different to what it's out there.

[Nathan Chan]

Yeah, that's funny. You took the words out of my mouth because it's easier than ever to start a business now. But what you have to get right is your brand and you've done an exceptional job with Kiki K. What are the key principles? If you could nail it down to like three or five, what are the three things that you've taken now that you're putting into dream life and how you build a brand and how did you build a Kiki K brand?

[Christina Carlson]

Yeah. So you know, number one, passion, passion for the product, passion for the design, passion for the brand and living and breathing the brand. I've seen so many brands talking, you know, I'm into health and well being and in health and well being there's a lot of money to be made, but there's a lot of shortcuts. And I'm, I want to work and buy the real thing that people are authentic and really want to, to create a brand that is no shortcuts because you can create supplements with so many not great things in it. And I, I've seen that so many times. So the passion for product and being authentic and being real and living and breathing the brand. I, you know, we only created products that I wanted to use and products that I thought was useful and inspiring. So, so creating a brand, it's not just about decide something and then put it out there. It's about living and breathing and using it, perfecting it and, you know, doing new versions. We got copied a lot by, you know, the big box retailers. Frustrating. But then instead of fighting that, we were just like, what else can we do? We kept us on our toes. Newness, freshness, by, but also keeping the foundation there. And, you know, for us, it was all about being Swedish and Swedish design, keeping those principles, you know, did we always get it right? Absolutely not. But learning every time, we didn't. And, you know, now I have the designer that I started with. She's still with me, but in our new brand. So keeping that is really, that's authentically me Swedish design. But more than that is the content. What I'm coaching, what I am sharing is all in our journals now, because that is what I believe and breathe. And I, I, you know, I talk a lot about creating a morning ritual because when you start your morning, it doesn't matter how your day goes, because at least you start every day in a beautiful way, the way you want it. Do that. So, you know, I have a morning ritual journal and I talk about journaling all the time because it was so helpful for me. So I'm not just creating journals and selling them. And, and it's funny because I offer, I, I don't know how many times I've been interviewed about work life balance because I never had a burnout and I, I worked a lot and we, you know, we, we had, we started from nothing, grew it to a, a big business and, you know, I think we turned over 650 million in the time that we were nothing to that. So with that came a lot of stress, a lot of, you know, a lot of, you know, hard work, a lot of travel, being in six countries, also raised two capable kids along the way. So it's, it's been, you know, it's been a journey that had a lot, lot happening. And every time a journalist came and asked how you manage your work life balance, I always said the first thing I said that what really helps me is journaling. And people always said that. I, people always thought that I said that because I was selling journals. And I said, no, I am selling journals because they are so helpful for me and I'm not just selling them, I use them. And I think that's the difference between creating a business, that you are just putting it out there because you want to have a business, versus if you create something that you need and you solving a problem for yourself, you're much more likely to use them, perfect them Change them as you change. And that's how I. How we started, and that's how I continue on in the Dream Life store now. It's just. And, you know, another thing that is so amazing in today's world is like, we used to probably take between six and eight months from having an idea into stores, sometimes longer. Now I can have an idea today. After today's podcast, I can call the designer and I can say, hey, I think we should do this. That could be up by end of today and you could have it next week. That is so exciting and so fun and felt impossible 20 years ago, and that's possible now. So, you know, for anyone listening, starting a business is such an exciting time. But, you know, authenticity, being real, using it, you know, really spending that time on your brand is probably the most important.

[Nathan Chan]

I have to ask about your journaling process.

[Christina Carlson]

Yes.

[Nathan Chan]

So I've journaled over the years, actually, funnily enough, since I started founder.

[Christina Carlson]

Yeah.

[Nathan Chan]

And maybe there's a book in there one day, and I've been journaling now for over 10 years. But what's your process? Right. Obviously you like, like. Because for some people, they just say, that's not me.

[Christina Carlson]

Yeah.

[Nathan Chan]

You know, I mean, I hear that all the time. There you go. So what would you say to those people? And then what is your process? Because it is. Is quite a therapeutic exercise. And I. I believe in it massively.

[Christina Carlson]

Yeah. And I want to start with, there's no right and wrong. There's no specific method. There's a million different ways. The way I do it is, is I start my morning by three morning pages. And it came from the book the Artist Way by Julia Cameron. It's a book about creativity. So you actually don't have to read the book if that's not of interest. But what I really got out of that book was her morning pages that I started doing when I started Kiki K. And what it is is basically you. You take a notebook, any kind of notebook, because I actually don't save them. So you don't have to have a fancy notebook for this one, but you can obviously save them and look up, look back, and look for patterns. But I've done it for so long, so I actually do my three morning pages and then I throw it away, because what I do on those morning pages, so this is the first thing that I do after my meditation in the morning. I just download whatever comes to mind. So. So that could be a challenge that I'm facing, a problem that I'm trying to Solve frustrating things that I'm dealing with. Maybe, you know, something annoying with the family or the kids or, or what's happening in the world or it could be. I'm so excited about this potential. I'm going to journal about it and think on paper. The way I really use my journals now, like I carry my journal wherever I go. This is not my morning pages journal. This is my inside journal. So when I do the morning pages that I don't save, I always have a few insights. There might be an idea for a podcast. It might be idea for a book or a journal or you know, a talk that I want to do. Like even, you know, speaking to you. This morning I was like, I need to contact like EO again to get more speaking. So just, just, I always write it down and I use technology as well, so I combined it. So the way I journal in, so the morning pages is just something that I do every morning. When I say every morning, I'm human like everyone else. I miss it, but very rarely because it's part of my habits now. I, I, I get up and I, I meditate and then I do my journaling and then I go for a walk. That's kind of my three things or a run. That's kind of the three things that I do most mornings. And it's just come part of my life daily.

[Nathan Chan]

Non negotiables.

[Christina Carlson]

Yeah, I love it. And then in out of those morning pages, I then put some insights into my journal and I write everything down. Super. If I have a meeting, I write it down. Then I have the same kind of categories that I have in my notebook. Bullet journaling is an amazing book to read. If anyone wants to kind of get into journaling in different categories, they don't call it like that. But you know, we have created bullet journals for years, but I never really understood that it's a whole system around it. It was first I thought when we started it, creating them at Kiki K was all about making the pages pretty and beautiful. But once I read his book, he's been on my podcast as well. The guy who started that bullet journaling. I was like, this is an amazing way of journaling. And so I have kind of adapted that to my own way. And so I used categories in my digital devices the same as I do in my, and I, I love journaling about what I just experienced. So this morning, for example, I, I took some notes from the retreat that I ran yesterday because there were some things that I want to do differently. There's Some things that I just love, that I want to remember. And there's some learnings that I wanted to incorporate and some new things I want to incorporate into the new. The next retreat that we're doing. So I constantly take notes. I used to be really frustrated if I went to meeting and people didn't come with a notebook. Obviously some people prefer devices now, but I, you know, there's a lot of research about, you know, the handwriting, you know, creating better or new pathways in your brain. So there's a lot of benefits of journaling, but the most, the, the thing that I come back to that has been the most beneficial is never being burnout. Because those three pages in the morning, I put anything that is bothering me, instead of winching and complaining, I put it on paper and I just throw it away. So it's like emptying your head and your body and it's just gives you that kind of space to then think about new potentials, new ideas.

[Nathan Chan]

Yeah, I've, I've actually heard of this. Just kind of like thinking of. Yeah, your journal is a place to shed, right? Like. Yeah, yeah. So you put anything that's on your mind, deepest, darkest secrets as well.

[Christina Carlson]

Anything, anything. So I actually write so no one can actually read it. Oh, so that's something I developed because I. So if I, if I brought that journal somewhere and I forgot it, I didn't want. Because sometimes, sometimes you just want to journal about something that's bothering you or something you're dealing with that you don't want the whole world to know about and they don't need to know about it because that's just something that you're going through yourself. So I write so no one can read it. So we're really well known. I'm well known for my Kiki K handwriting because we used to teach that in our stores. So you would think that I would do that, but not in my morning pages. I, I just write so no one can read it. So you can kind of train yourself to do that. And then obviously, my normal notebook, I can read everything and. But I wouldn't be worried about that. Just throw it away. Burn it. If you have a fireplace, burn it. Or if you, if you have a shredder or just put it into being. In the end of the day, it's no one, really. You know, we all go through challenging times. We all go through, you know, our ups and downs, our darkest times, and, you know, dealing with challenges in our work, businesses, relationships, families, friends, you know, what's happening in the world right now, there's a lot of things that people have, would have an opinion on, but in the end of the day, it's your journey and you make the decision what's important to you. And, and if you write like that, then no one can read it. But even if they could read it, it's your life.

[Nathan Chan]

So I'm going to ask you a random question. You've got your journal here on the table. You reminded me back to. I did an interview long time ago with the founder of Headspace, you know that app, incredible meditation app.

[Christina Carlson]

And I love space.

[Nathan Chan]

Yeah. So I said to Andy, I said, man, I gotta ask you to do a meditation. Would you be able to read something from your book from your journal?

[Christina Carlson]

Yeah, sure.

[Nathan Chan]

Let's go. What do you got in there?

[Christina Carlson]

So I, I, I put an index at so I can refer to it. So I probably go through a book like this a month.

[Nathan Chan]

Okay.

[Christina Carlson]

And I love so, so for, for, so just to explain a little bit, if anyone is interested in journals, I love wire binding. They're not. We also do book binding, but I love my binding for everyday writing. So you can actually put it flat. So I have an index at the front. So these are. If you go to the Dream Life store and you do the plain journals, we have lots of guided journals like Goals and whatever. But I love the plain ones and I love the bullet ones because I like my own kind of handwriting. So I create my own index because I have the same categories all the time. So the way I think and the way they operate is, and use as my little headings is, is, you know, my podcast, my coaching. So anytime I have an idea, I put it under that. So let's just go to. I should explain also, I'm such a visual person, so I have a digital, I have a digital laptop diary like everyone else and the zoom and all that kind of stuff. But I'm a visual person, so I like to put in. And this is just handwritten. We sell diaries as well. But I actually create my own little diary.

[Nathan Chan]

Yes.

[Christina Carlson]

And these are all things that are big things. So I don't put in, in this kind of layout. I don't put, put in things like, you know, what, particularly what I'm doing day, like all day today. But Melbourne will be in here. Your podcast will be in here. Things that is unusual. So the trips, the, you know, birthdays, the, you know, I've got all my speaking because when, when I get a lot of phone calls or emails about. Can you speak, you know, In August next year, then I would quickly want to just go and look at that to see because sometimes in, in the, in the digital world it gets lost and you can't see the whole thing. So I, I use this but I also use a whole wall planner where I put all my speaking because if I'm speaking in Dubai, I want to make sure that when I don't book something like the day before, if I can't, if I'm traveling that day, etc, so it's just really helpful since I'm such a visual person. And then the way I, I, I'm just going to show you something that would be so coaching program. Like I have million ideas about my coaching program. So that's kind of the heading here. It will be on the index. I've got admin Friday. So anything that I need to do today during my admin time. So for example, I, and then I have solo podcast. I have anything about what is my life in here. And then I time block. So, so for example, between I work in 90 minutes block and then I will, let's just say that my time block is podcast for my own podcast. If I have that, I will then go into my journal and my phone because I have the same categories on my phone and my email system. Then I'll go in and just say okay, what do I need to do on the podcast today? So I would have a schedule like you would. So for example, most of my April ones will be or I will have thought of that. But then I was like, what do I need to do in this 90 minutes from podcasts And I might have some new ideas that I thought about on the plane that I write down. Or there might be an email about someone who wants to come on the show that is, you know, relevant for me right now, right here. So, so it's a really good way of time blocking and then combining my journal but also my digital devices. So I think same way digitally as I do with my, my journal.

[Nathan Chan]

Yeah, well that's, that's a quite comprehensive system.

[Christina Carlson]

I know but that's, you know, I run in my coaching program I have, we plan the quarter. So first we plan the year in January and then every quarter we plan the quarter as if it's a mini year. Because what I found over the years is that, that we're really excited in January or December about the new year and we get, we have all the plans and then life happens and business happens and we go sidetracked. And then come October, November we're like oh, gosh. We haven't done what we thought we would do most. Mostly we plan quarterly in business, but personally we often let ourselves, you know, our own things go. So now I plan the quarter before. So we have just planned in the coaching program, it's March now and we just planned the quarter two which starts first of April. So I then just look at what do I want to achieve in this year, what do I want to achieve this year and how can I break that down in next quarter? And I just focus on the quarter. Obviously I get things, requests from speaking in December, etc. Yes, obviously that comes in. But I focus only on my top three for the, for their quarter to make sure that they happen and for they, for me, they around obviously my business, but also, you know, my, my health and well being and my family as well.

[Nathan Chan]

Yeah, well, look, thank you for sharing. I, I, I, I, I knew I was opening up a can worse, but is that it? Like comprehensive? So that was really helpful.

[Christina Carlson]

You know, that's, this is, you know, it's an interesting one because this is living and breathing the brand. Right. You know, like, I'm just not saying, hey, I'm using the journal, coming with the plain journal, you know, that is what I'm talking about. Like you, you use it and that's what, that's why, like, oh, we need to, we need to change this because of this. This is a plain one. But then, you know, I know people need some prompts, for example, so I hear people all the time saying, I can't journal. Yeah. So then a plain journal like this will be perhaps overwhelming. So then I've done an am pm so you can have morning question, morning prompts, night prompts. One of my favorite journals is called Daily Wins. So every night you can write down three wins and three things you're grateful for, and then you plan the wins for tomorrow. So last night I planned to do a really good podcast with you today.

[Nathan Chan]

Oh, there you go. Well, I think we're doing it. Yeah, I think we'll get this win. Okay. All right, well, look, I can see now the mindset pace, right? You've, you've, you've turned it into somewhat of a habitual system through your journals.

[Christina Carlson]

Yeah.

[Nathan Chan]

Right.

[Christina Carlson]

Yeah.

[Nathan Chan]

Okay, well, look, we have to work towards wrapping up Chris. Sam, it's been fantastic. You've been so open, honest, vulnerable. You've shared some incredible stories. What's something that you wanted to come here today to share that perhaps you haven't shared before? Something that people don't Talk about enough as a founder or anything that I didn't ask you that you want to answer.

[Christina Carlson]

So for anyone starting a business or in a business that are listening, the number one thing that really made us go global is dreaming. So when we start a business, it's almost impossible to think globally straight away because you haven't even got started in your own market or having a product that's out there. So thinking really big is difficult. And most of us are really good at setting goals. If you're an entrepreneur or do a bit of a strategic plan or a business plan, and that's all great, but I think dreaming should come before that. And when I say dreaming, some people roll their eyes and they think it's a bit fluffy. But dreaming is thinking outside the square, doing. Thinking about stuff that you want to do, a business you want to create or something you want to achieve personally without knowing how to do it. So the way of doing that is to ask yourself, what would you do if you knew you couldn't fail? So many of us are scared of failing. I'm so good at it now, some does not face me anymore, but most of us are really scared of failing, worried about what other people are thinking, you know, if we fail, you know, media, all that kind of stuff that comes with that. But what would you do if you knew you couldn't fail? And another question to ask yourself before you goal setting and before, before you do some goal setting, before you do some planning, is to ask yourself, what would I do if I had all the skills, the resources and the knowledge, the time and the money to do whatever I want in my one precious life and business, what would I do? Even if you have no idea how to make it happen, because most of us don't feel we have enough time, most of us don't feel we have enough resources, skills, and because of that, we don't actually push ourselves. I had no idea how to open a retail stores, I had no idea how to find manufacturers, design. I had no idea about anything. And I feel the reason why I got to where we got to. Not obviously not just me, but the dream to start with was a vision that I set really early. And then I got all these incredible people to help me make it happen. But before you have that, you need to dream and set a really clear vision. And that is what makes it so exciting being an entrepreneur, because it's up to you to set that vision. But if you just start with strategic planning, you often just stretch yourself where you are. You might want to turn over more money or make it a better profit margin or whatever, whatever that is for you. But when you put your normal life and all business aside and ask yourself, what would you what would I do if I knew I couldn't fail? And what would I do if I had all the resources and the skills and knowledge, help, well, being time, money to do whatever I want in my life? What would I do? When you do that, some really exciting things comes out. Because when you do planning, you often think about what's realistic. And in my opinion, that's a little bit boring because we get to that anyway. But thinking outside the square, dreaming big is so fun in your business, but also in your personal life. And it's amazing what we can make happen if we're getting clear on what we want and starting to share, share it outside and, you know, on podcasts. So one of my dreams is to do 104 talks this year. And I'm sharing that because you never know who might need a speaker. You never know who might know someone who knows someone. And the 104, I don't really care if I do 104. I will never put myself as a bad achiever if I don't.

[Nathan Chan]

You won't beat yourself up?

[Christina Carlson]

No, I treat myself with kindness. And I think if I can, I know that I'll easily get 30 in a year because that's, that's. I know that's possible. 104, unlikely, but how about if I reach somewhere between 104 under 30 that I think I would get. That's amazing, right? So when you dream big and you share feels, it's. It's exciting. Yeah, it's exciting, but it's also, it's scary because a lot of people have opinion. You know, even when I said that I was going to open, my first interview with the H, I think was I said that I was going to open 40 stores, but we just opened one. And when I drove home, I felt sick. I was like, I'm going to open 40 stores. You know, Paul only had one store to one house to sell. And I was like, how am I going to do this? And by sharing that, you know, I had some people had an opinion, there's no way you're going to do that. That gave me that excitement to show them. And the other thing is that I had some people saying, how can I help you make that happen? So sharing is really, really powerful. Dreaming is really, really powerful, even if you have no idea how to make it happen.

[Nathan Chan]

Amazing. Well, look Christina, thank you so much for your time. This has been an incredible interview. Thank you again.

[Christina Carlson]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Nathan Chan]

Hey, guys, if you love this episode, make sure to check out my interview with Trini Woodall on how she built a die hard community of five followers backing her every single move. With Trini London. The true beauty of our community is that there's a passion and we inspire a passion for them to make the most themselves. But that community itself fosters lifting up women.