← The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan
The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan
566: From Celebrity Deals to Creator Empire - Maggie Sellers on Building 'Hot Smart Rich'
00:53:54
In this episode, Maggie Sellers - founder, investor, creator, and force behind Hot Smart Rich - shares how she turned vulnerability, storytelling, and a scrappy content strategy into a multimillion-dollar movement and investing powerhouse.
Loading summary
Transcript47 lines
- [00:00]
A
Hear the stories, learn the proven methods, and accelerate your growth and future through entrepreneurship. Welcome to the Founder podcast with Nathan Chan.
- [00:14]
B
Well, the first question I want to ask you is take us back to the moment you first had the idea for Hot Smart Rich. Where were you when? What was going on at the time with your life? What was the exact moment you knew this was something you're going to build?
- [00:33]
A
So the exact moment I knew I wanted to build something like this was actually a very different moment from the. The naming. But I used to work with celebrities, so kind of going back a little bit. I had spent my whole life working in startups, one of which went public. I was so lucky. One of which we raised $100 million in four years. But we always found a way to, like, work with celebrity investors because that's just such a great way to bring your product to the market in a much more affordable way than paying their rates. So I had since left both venture capital and startups, and I was working directly with brands to bring celebrities into the front of the brand and a name brule in some capacity. And I did this entire deal. It took like two years to actually find the right celebrity to become almost like a co founder. You can think of it as sorts of. And I structured that all through equity. So two years of my life, I had done this deal. And once the deal had gone through, there was huge announcement. It went incredibly well. Like, the sales of the company increased by 1900%. And I remember I posted a TikTok about it and it was up for about a week. And I got a call from the brand a week later being like, the celebrity has asked that you take down the post. And I was like, why would they want me to take down the post? Like, I spent two years of my life, like doing this deal and explaining to people how it went and trying to bring people through the process of it. And they said, the celebrity doesn't like that. You have essentially, like, taken credit for it, even though, like, I was a huge instrumental part in it. And they want you to remove the video. And I just felt this sense of, like, power escape from me where I was like, whoa, like, how am I ever supposed to build a business if I can't even talk about what I'm doing? The intricacies, intricacies of it. And really, like, that's where I started taking content super seriously. Because I was like, I am going to become somebody that like, has the power and has the money to be able to actually pay it back versus letting these People that I was working for kind of dictate where my career was going to go. So that's when I first started taking content seriously after just posting like for fun for six months. And then from that moment forward I was like, what am I actually passionate about? And for me, my whole life I have just felt this sense of being a woman that wants to celebrate her femininity. I always felt like I really couldn't disclose that or show that side of me. When I was in these really high growth startups and going public and raising this money, I had to completely like take that away from me. And so I just decided in that moment I was like, what are three things that every woman wants to be but can't say, like it's all taboo for us to really admire and want to achieve being hot, being smart and being rich. And that's the moment where I was like, I'm going to call this company Hot, Smart Rich and help other women get to the same place of honestly, just freedom from like just being able to do whatever you want.
- [03:33]
B
Yeah, incredible. So I'm curious, how did that start? Like, thank you for sharing, but how did that start? Like, what did that look like? Like, how did you bring it to life?
- [03:44]
A
So I had been creating content just based on my career. I had seen obviously TikTok, there's so many hauls and beauty things and I was like, I love that stuff. But I also am like getting to be exhausted from the consumption. I'm just going to start talking about business, business breakdowns, how I managed an 18 million dollar budget, how we raised money from celebrity investors, like what are the different types of activations? And out of home marketing that actually works? And it started to just like again kind of become a fun pet project where I was like, this is really cool. But I didn't take it seriously. I almost was really shameful of even just being like, I'm an influencer. To this day, I still find it hard to recognize being a creator versus being an entrepreneur. Even though that's a lot of what I do nowadays. Right? It's creating content, it's building a community. But there was that shameful part of me that was like, I don't even want to say that that's what I'm doing. When someone would be like, what are you doing now after you work in all these high growth startups? And you're like, well I'm creating content. It just felt like so mismatched with my trajectory of where I thought I was going to go in My career. But it's. It actually like the light bulb moment went off when a huge, like, corporate company, Fortune 500, reached out to me and was like, we love what you're doing. We'd love to do a deal with you. And I was like, okay, like, this is a brand I would have dreamt to have worked at. That's so crazy. And now I'm getting to create content for them with something that I'm passionate about. And I remember I called my sister, who formerly was the CFO of Missouri. It's like huge business. And I was like, I just got this deal to do this campaign. This is kind of crazy. Like, I never really took this seriously. And so it was a. It was a bunch of little things that I think every entrepreneur that I'm around, it's. It's usually not this one, like, crazy moment. It's being able to identify patterns and trends of like, seeing themes of things. So it was like the theme of the celebrity taking away my voice online. It was the theme of like a brand reaching out. It was the theme of like seeing that my content was being circulated amongst other ambitious, driven women. And I was like, once I add that all together, there is something here. But there wasn't this like one thing that was like, this is it now. Like, my video went viral and that's like me having overnight success. It. It wasn't that at all. And I think we over glamorized those stories of like the person who has a super viral video and creates a meme coin from that. But I think the people that have these longevity careers, especially in the world in which we're navigating to, is like, it's actually a long time. Like, I don't know how many videos Mr. Beast posted, but I think he's been posting videos since he was 11, you know, and then it's like 10 years later he finds that success. So for me, it was very similar. It wasn't this overnight thing. It was finding something I was passionate about, had a really good why behind it, and felt like even through the down days, I could get through it because I I working towards something bigger than just me. It was like for a community, it wasn't just to become famous, if that makes sense.
- [06:52]
B
Yeah, totally. And it's funny how businesses start that way because I think you're right. Like, I really resonate with your story there because that's how I started founder. I didn't know if it would be a business. I was just genuinely curious around entrepreneurship and business and how people were building these successful businesses on the Internet with no skills or experience whatsoever. And I just started to create this magazine and then it just kind of grew from there. So it sounds like you went through a similar journey where you kind of just fell into this thing purely by looking to serve.
- [07:27]
A
Totally. I think that's what's. It's even funny because up until last year, I felt like again, I talked a little bit about the shame of being a creator. Like, I think because my whole life people have doubted me and said things like the sound of your voice or the way that you dress makes you a certain way, but then you're actually a lot smarter than I thought you. So for me, what's been the most important part of my career is like, success and achievement based on, like, what we value, like going public or raising X amount of money or being in the right deals. And so for me, it took a really long time to even feel like there was something here. And I think when I hosted my first in person events last year with the community, and I saw like hundreds of people wait for me to do something at a coffee shop, I'm like, oh my God, this is a real community. This is a real business. Like, people are willing to spend their Saturday coming and waiting in line at a coffee shop just to meet me and be a part of this community. Like, this is amazing. And I think the thing that's been so interesting having worked with celebrities my whole career is like, I've done deals with celebrities where they have millions of followers and they bring five people to an event and seeing 100 girls at an event because they're so bought into the mission of HSR to me was like the big moment where I was like, this is, this is a real business. This is a real community. And ever since that point, I was like, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna like build a huge company out of this.
- [08:57]
B
Yeah. And you said something really interesting. You said that there's been other creators that have raised a lot of money or, you know, you have millions of follows, but they, they don't have that engagement. Why, why do you think, why do you think that happens?
- [09:15]
A
I think it happens for a bunch of different reasons. Like, I think for me, I can only speak for the celebrities I've worked with and, and obviously my, my own experience. But the moment that I think people connected with me because a lot of my life has been a little unrelatable in terms of my career trajectory. It's not very rare for you in your first startup to go public and report to the CEO. It's like very hard to find and pick the right startup to work at that raises $120 million that you're like the head of brand and you rate, you manage an $18 million budget. So I think sometimes where the content really took a turn is when I actually called off an engagement in my personal life and I had this picture perfect life on the outside, like massive engagement ring, G wagon, crazy Beverly Hills mansion. And I called off my engagement and I was like, this is not what's going to make me happy and I need to like follow my gut. And I put everything in storage and like moved to Calabasas and got a horse and was like totally like, eat, pray, loving. And when I posted this video after four months of people asking like, where's your ring and why is your background different? That's the moment that I think there was that relatability because I was vulnerable not only in my, in my professional life, but also my personal life. And I think when I was growing up in the era of startups, like, I remember feeling like really confused having to leave my personal life at the door when like, we're humans, we're multidimensional people and things happen in our lives where it is going to affect your job. And I felt this, like not being able to be my authentic self based on what was going on was, was really difficult for me. And so I think that moment that I posted that video made me relatable and people were like, wow, I'm going through a divorce trying to build a business or my wife just left me or I struggle with X, Y and Z and I just felt like I had to pretend. And I think that's been the saying, right, of like, fake it till you make it. But businesses are built by people and people go through ups and downs. And I think the more that we pretend like it's all run through walls and all good and sacrifice everything, like, I actually don't think that's the, the next era of business. I think it's being a relatable emotional leader, knowing that there's boundaries, but also just being very clear with like, okay, we are humans, we're going to go through those ups and downs.
- [11:39]
B
Yeah. And I, I love what you're saying around that vulnerability and connecting with others because that's, that's how you build true relationships at scale. But it's so scary to just kind of put yourself out there, share your, you know, deepest, darkest secrets or, you know, really kind of Putting yourself out there to the point where it's. You worried what people think, trolls, all that kind of stuff. How do you. What would you say to people to work through that? Because I agree, like, that is so powerful to connect with people, but also so scary to share that kind of stuff online.
- [12:17]
A
Yeah, I think it's so true. They say, like, you are who you surround your. The five people you surround yourself the most with. And I think the same is true with. With online. I think it's interesting because I actually had physical people in my life that didn't understand. Hot, smart, rich that were like, very kind of almost against it and felt like it was too much or we weren't ready for it yet. And I think even just removing those people from my life, like the non believers, I think anybody that's listening to this, it's like, it's funny. I was just on a call an hour ago with somebody that was like, you had this vision two years ago when I met you, and now it's so cool to see you bring this life. Like, I didn't see it then, and now I see it. And I think no matter the business that you're building, like, that's the reality, right? Is like, you are the only person that sees that. And so I think when you have those people, whether it's online or in your real life that just don't understand you or, like, feel as though you're sharing too much or it's like, whatever their opinion is of you, those are the people you just have to block out and ignore. And it's. It's really hard to do that. But I think that's where, like, your next trajectory of growth is. Like, whether it works out or it doesn't, you're gonna learn something from it. And that's how I take every single situation. My whole life is. Like, it really doesn't matter the outcome, it matters the process. Because I truly believe everything works out the way that it should. And it might not be a linear path, but I think, especially when bad things are happening to me, I always tell myself, this is the making of my story. Like, we don't glamorize the people in life who just had a silver spoon have done nothing with it. Like, yes, we might idolize. Like, oh, that would be so nice to not have to worry about X, Y, and Z, but the people we really believe in and get behind. Like, look at Mel Robbins. She's built an entire empire off of the let them theory. And the first three pages of her book it's like she's $800,000 in debt with no job and no way to get out. So when bad things are happening to me, I always tell myself, this is my story, this is what's going to make me successful one day. And so I actually, not that I welcome hardship or I don't like it's not amazing in the moment to be like I'm stressed about money or I'm stressed about where I'm going to live or I'm stressed about my reputation. But you always just have to remember like that is what is going to make you inspirational to somebody one day. And I think as we just inherently want to inspire other people.
- [14:43]
B
Yeah, I agree. And it's only though when you share those stories, right? And do you share them while they're happening or do you share them post them happening? Because it's so much easier to share them post when they're happening because there's so much shame and guilt and imposter syndrome, you know what I mean?
- [15:01]
A
Like, yeah, it's so, it is really interesting and I think it also, it's going through a shift right now, right? Like the platform of TikTok I think has made like it's even interesting for my own content. I'm very much share in the moment on TikTok what's going on. Whereas like on other platforms it's a lot more curated. It's a lot more of like the vision and the aspiration that you want to be sharing to people. But I think in general it's even interesting looking at the companies that I'm an investor and like whenever they share failures or things, when it's in the moment, that's when their sales actually see like a skyrocket. Because people, I do believe in the best of people and I think people do want to help people and that's like a form of marketing. Like you even see these videos on Tick Tock where it's like my dad, it's like little kids filming or not little kids, but like 15 to 20 year old women filming their dads. Being like, my dad's worked for three years to write this book. Like no one's bought a copy, please support him. And that video has like 10 million views. And so I think it's actually like the platforms are shifting so much that I think it's about understanding the brand that you're building and who you're building it for. So like one of my very close friends, she runs a luxury shopping company. Like her being so relatable and so like raw probably doesn't make the most sense for her. But I think if you're building a business that's for like the everyday consumer or is like a part of like the everyday life that I actually feel like leans itself more to actually talking about the hardships in the moment. So I think with everything in business, I always just think the first question I ask myself is like, who is this for? And when and why are they going to consume this? And then if I can answer those questions to be beneficial in that moment to share, I will. And then there's some things where just because you share your life doesn't mean you have to share all of your life. And I think that you. I tell this to founders that are trying to build a personal brand but are not comfortable sharing their personal life. It's like, that's okay. Just find if you were going out for dinner with somebody and it was the first meeting, you wouldn't talk about your business the whole time. What are those five to six topics that you would try to touch on with somebody new that is likely what you'll be comfortable with talking about on social for the first time.
- [17:17]
B
Yeah, I think when it comes to building a personal brand, this is such a trending thing now like more than ever everyone wants to build their personal brand because they can see the power in it. And founders are becoming creators, and creators are becoming founders. I'm curious, with the brands that you invest in, are you, are you investing in companies and the founders that have personal brands only or talk me through that thesis.
- [17:50]
A
No. So actually I would, I would say a lot of the brands that I've invested into are actually not brands that have a personal brand. Like the one that I can think of that's maybe an exception is obviously I invested into Katy Perry's non al brand. So like she obviously has a brand as a person, but the CEO day to day operator does, I would say is starting to build her personal brand. But like when I invested wasn't an active. So I, I actually, because I've invested so much on behalf of celebrities, like I am a little bit weary of celebrity brands actually. Like I think that creator brands is something that's really fascinating because we are built to like create content whereas celebrities, traditionally musicians, movie stars, whatever, they're actually focused on producing movies and putting up music and touring. So I think creator brands is something really interesting that I am looking for the right stuff. But most of the brands that I've invested into are not actually personal brand founders. I think that's something that I try to help them with is figuring out like what is your thing going to be as an expert. And I think being those types of founders are subject matter experts. Like I just got on off the phone with somebody today who's we invested into a pet pharma compounding medication company. His clients are vets. So like he doesn't necessarily need a veterinarian like to know about his personal brand. He just needs to be a subject matter expert that they can go to. So it's interesting. I do agree with you. Like I think the brands I surround myself with are very much that blended like founder to creator. But I still think that there an opportunity for people that don't want to build a personal brand. You can still build an amazing business and not have to have a personal brand. So I agree with you. I think it's the most trendy thing and I think people see the power in it. But I always say this. It's like the people that have staying power are people that have a why. If you just want to build a personal brand, to have a personal brand, it's going to get really boring after a year and you're going to burn out because it's so hard. If you have a mission and you have a why and you feel empowered and fueled in like you years later. Nathan, like still love learning about different types of businesses. That's going to keep you going when you're exhausted and you're like, I don't want to do this, like things are going badly. Like that underlying why is so important to find first before you just build this personal brand. Because if you don't have that, it's, it's going to go away.
- [20:22]
B
Yeah, I agree that that comes from any business. And one of our instructors on our platform, founder plus Rory Vaden, he teaches personal branding and his whole thing is what is your unique ability in the service of others and how can you really use that unique ability and broadcast that out to the world in the service of others? And I think, I think Mel Robbins is maybe one of his clients. Maybe, I'm not sure, don't quote me on that. But he works with like you know, Lewis Howes, all these big personal brands and that's, that's the focus, right? Like what is your unique ability? Because it's not just about showing your life or standing out. It's, it's, it's about being authentically you and then carving out like how do you own like, like a word, right? Like Simon Sinek, he Owns Why? Right? Like, how can you be uniquely you?
- [21:21]
A
Well, and I think that's what's so interesting about having, like, in any business. It's like, you have to have a competitive advantage. Right? And I think for me, you know, I'll be super honest. Like, there was a part of me that was like, we should be doing when. So we do this thing in our newsletter every week called Consumer News, and it's basically everything that I'm paying attention to. And I was like, okay, if I want to be a real media company, like, I need to be on breaking news when this stuff is happening, like, Instagram post goes out or, like, story goes out. And then I thought back to myself and I was like, that's just not me, though. Like, that is not the type of business that I want to be building. My business is, like, more thoughtful case studies and bringing people along on the journey of, like, understanding my investing landscape. I also think it's like, for me, this mission of it's not just business one on one. It's also, like, this idea of identity and understanding how you can build an authentic life as a female to become that, like, hot, smart, rich woman. So I think, yeah, it's. It's just figuring out, like, what is your competitive advantage? What are you passionate about? What are you going to be excited to do a year from now? And I think people just often want to do what they think is success or what's working. But what works for somebody else doesn't mean it's actually going to necessarily work for you.
- [22:36]
B
So what does it mean to be hot, smart, rich?
- [22:44]
A
I honestly think it's a. It's a feeling, like, I think it's just the reclaiming of your power as a woman. And I think for me, it's always funny. My biggest pet peeve is when people try to break up the hot, the smart, and the rich. And they're like, well, this is like the products that you should use for hot. This is the stuff that you should use for rich. These are like. And I'm kind of like, it's actually all in one. Like, that's. I think what I struggled with and growing up was, like, choosing my personal side or my work side. And I actually think the craziest part about business in women business is that we control 85% of consumer spend in the U.S. we're making these decisions, and yet when we walk into the office and you're building products, you're supposed to take away all of the things that make you an amazing consumer as A woman, like, don't talk about beauty, don't talk about pregnancy, all these things. And it's like, that's actually what the consumer is telling us they want. Like, the consumer knows best. That's like the number one rule of business. Listen to your consumer. Yet when you walk in the office, it's like, you can't show that side of you. And so for me, hot smart rich is not about like, the beauty standards that we have, and it's not about like, your SAT scores or it's not about how much money is in your bank account. It's truly like, it's almost just like an embodiment of being everything that you want you to be as a female and just owning that and being unapologetic. And I think women, it's. We're so unfairly scrutinized about things. And so for me, hot Smart rich is really a mantra. And it's less about, like, what does each pillar mean? Like, I remember a podcaster asked me, they're like, what does it mean to be hot? And what does it mean to be smart? And I was like, they're, they're all in one. They're interchangeable. It's actually like the three of them together. That's the power of embodying hsr. So I try not to separate it as like, you'll, you'll never have seen me put out something that's like, here's your 10 step guide to be hot. And it's like a workbook that costs $10. Like, that's not the business that I'm building. The business that I'm building is the community. To know that, like, you can be your authentic self and you can have it all. And I, I really try to just say to people, like, it's, it's a, it's all of those three in one. It's not, it's not them by themselves, if that makes sense.
- [25:05]
B
Yeah, it does, totally. And I think it's really clever how you've started to kind of wrap that identity through your merch. And how's like, yeah, how's all that going that side of the business?
- [25:17]
A
That's such a, such a good question. I was like, literally just on another call this morning talking about this because I think for me, I. So just to break down how the business is structured a little bit. So there's obviously me and I actually brought in my sister who I was saying was the CFO of Missouri. She's like my 50, 50 business owner. So I remember I got My first brand deal that was like $10,000. And I was like, whoa, this is like a real business. And so I called my sister and she's just like a very operational, like, amazing. Like, she knows legal, she knows like all of the things that I don't want to look at. It is not my superpower. And so when she decided that we had enough of a business to make a go of it, the two of us, I was like, I've been doing this for a year by myself, but I'm going to give you 50% of my business. And so that you feel like you're actually empowered to like, be my 5050 business partner. There's nobody else in the world I feel like you can trust more than your sibling. At least for me. I'm so lucky to be able to say that. So, like, first day she's on the job, she gets like all the passwords to my bank accounts and everything. You know, it's just like it was full on from the beginning. And so the way that we set up the business is like, obviously it's hard because we run not just a creating business, but like we are doing investment. So right this second, we're about to close a deal that's like a $200,000 investment into a seed based at home Fertility, Reproductive Care, plat. And how it usually works on the investing side is like, I source the deals, I raise the money, and then she actually does all the infrastructure and like the operations to get it from start to finish. So, like, I'm very rarely on the computer for that stuff. I'm on the phone and so on. When we were looking at the business, I think she's really good at obviously being a finance brain of like, for me, merch is a way for the community to connect. But when we actually looked at the numbers, we're like, like it's not a huge revenue driver. So we have to really, because for us, and I was just explaining this to somebody on a call, it's like, if you want super high quality merch, like, it is a process to find that, find the right factory, find the right supplier, find the right way that everything's labeled on the actual journal or whatever you're launching, it's not as simple as like printing out artist merch. And so if you want that quality, for us, it took up a lot of bandwidth. And that's not our core business. Like, our core business is not merch. And so for me, it's a way that we do maybe two drops a year. We are not making money on our merch. Like, it's just not a revenue driver for us. We make much more money on content, brand partnerships and events. And then the investing is what I'm actually passionate about. Like, I know how incredibly hard it is for women to raise money. So, like, I love that it takes me a long time to find those companies and then actually do the investment and then help these companies through. Like, nothing gives me more joy than if I end my day and I created content for like three hours. I respond, I respond to every single dm. I'm responding to people. I'm like, understanding what's going on in pop culture online. And then I spend like two hours a day with portfolio companies. Like, I will make connections for people or introduce or say, you should hire this person as a consultant or hear their problems and actually help them. Um, so for us, the merch stuff is, is tricky because it's a way to connect, but it has taken us a lot of bandwidth for, not a lot of payoff. And so I think merch is something I would love to continue to do, but it's just, it's been a distraction up until this point, if I can be totally honest. But I love seeing the girlies, like, post with their journals. It's just been a difficult process to get. But, like, I think if we want to take it seriously, we need to start really being like, hey, we're going to run ads and we're going to do a photo shoot and we're actually going to, you know, we'll sell $10,000 worth of product with one Instagram story from me. But then it's like, that's not my priority to be talking about. So will I struggle with, like, how much should I really be pushing product down people's throat? So to be honest, like, and vulnerable, that's a side of the business that I haven't figured out. And I, I think that's actually going back to your question earlier around. Like, my engagement is. I have never been a product pressure. I have never done more than like one or two products a month that I think people should genuinely buy. And I love to share. I'm not like an affiliate link linker all the time, you know. And so for me, I really struggle where I'm actually the worst at self promotion. And I actually need. And like, my team has sat me down and has said, like, you need. If you're going to make us do merch, you can't just post one story, Maggie. Like, people miss 80% of people miss your messages of your business. So like I need to be able to actually promote that stuff more. It just hasn't been a priority.
- [30:06]
B
Yeah, no, look, I, I hear you and I respect your openness and honesty. Let's talk about your venture fund. So, yeah, how much have you raised and how much of it have you deployed?
- [30:18]
A
Yeah, so we actually don't have a venture fund, we have a venture syndicate. So we invest on a per deal basis. So I have done, don't quote me, But I think five deals and we've deployed over like $1.6 million. So the syndicate is essentially different from a venture fund in that we don't call capital. So we don't have like a $10 million sitting in a bank account. And then we're deploying it on a deal by deal basis. This, we find a company that we love and we're like, oh my God, we want to get behind this. We usually put in money ourselves off of our balance sheet and then we raise a syndicate of our investors that we feel like will actually relate to the deal. And there's positives and negatives to both of that. It's a lot harder to move quickly. But thank goodness I'm a creator that most founders like. I'll give you the deal that we're working with right now. It's a two million dollar price round. They had essentially raised all of the money and then we are the last investor that they are bringing in. And it's taken like four more weeks than other investors to close to fund and to sign because a syndicate is just different and the timing is different. But because I offer value as a creator, which we don't guarantee. When you're an investment company of ours, that I will create content, but if you look at my history, I likely will because I want it to succeed. We just don't put like Maggie will post five times for this brand a month. We have an upper edge. And like we were saying earlier in investing, it's all about selling yourself. Right. Like if you're a hot deal, you should have multiple investors. And so investors need to be able to win deals like what separates you from somebody else. And most investors have been a little bit afraid of having a personal brand and that's really what's been able to help us win deals. So it takes a lot longer for us. But I think because I have that competitive advantage of distribution, founders are more willing to bring us in even if it takes them a little bit longer.
- [32:18]
B
Yeah. And you have such a awesome diverse experience and skill set, working with celebrities and doing deals from a celebrity venture standpoint. I'm curious. Do that. You said, you said they work, but then you said they don't always work. Like, talk me through that. That, like, I think a lot of people, they think, you know, when you've got an ambassador or ambassadors, it's really, really powerful. But how do you know who the right ambassadors are? Like, I. I a while ago interviewed the founders or one of the founders of Hexclad, and then they partnered with Gordon Ramsay. Like, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant deal. Like, yeah, I'm curious.
- [33:03]
A
That one makes so much sense because his audience is primed for that product. Where it doesn't make sense is when you see, like, if Gordon Ramsay were to launch a trucking company, right? It's like his audience doesn't look to him for trucking advice. Or like, if he were to launch a woman's makeup brand, which a lot of women's makeup brands are owned by men or are controlled by men. If you look at, like, who's in the CEO position of Estee Lauder or the big conglomerates, it's mostly men. So Gordon Ramsay were to launch a makeup brand for men. It doesn't make sense. Brad Pitt, his skincare brand, doesn't make sense because his audience has never been primed to think about Brad Pitt's skin. And in terms of emulating that. So where I think it works really well is when the audience of the creator or the celebrity is primed to trust their authority in the space. And so I think that's almost like a guarantee that it will work really well. But then there's ones that are on the fence. And that's where, again, it's like using your gut. And I just publicly said this a few days ago, but I actually passed on the Sip Margs Alex Earl deal a few months ago. And I'm sure a lot of people were like, why would you pass on that? Well, my guardrail is. If I took the celebrity away, would I invest in this brand? Is there enough differentiation? And there wasn't for me. And I think, again, the. The hardest part about being an investor after three years is, like, you're a little bit less naive and you actually know, like, beverage as a category is just incredibly difficult. And so for me, it was like, if I took Alex Earl away, do I really want to invest in another ready to drink margarita company that's been around since 2021? No. Will Alex Earle help the brand? Especially initially when things are exciting and there's press announcements and there's campaigns rolling out. Absolutely. She will. What is the repeat purchase of Sit Margs? For me, it's not high. So, like, how many times a week are people going and buying a ready to drink margarita? Is it going to be like the next White Claw? That was a risk return that I was able to walk away from being like, I'm okay to miss out on the next White Claw because it's, it's not aligned with, like, my personal beliefs, beliefs in terms of, like, where I think the market is going. And if I took away Alex Earl, would I still invest in this brand? I wouldn't. So I think it, it's, again, it's like a lot of different factors. I mean, having spent time with celebrities that are on tour, recording albums, their focus is that their focus is not necessarily creating content and showing up for events and going to retailer meetings with Target and Walmart to get their product on shelves. So I think it's really situational. And that's what's very hard about creator brands, is that some will work and then others. It's like, why is nobody talking with the fact that tbh, Noah Schnapp, who's an incredibly successful celebrity on Stranger Things, his brand completely just went away. But we don't talk about that. And it's not in a way of, like shaming celebrities that don't work. It's just in the way of like learning from what's worked and what doesn't work. And I think for me it's. It's been, you know, I see almost every single celebrity deal and I've invested in like two of them. So, I mean, there are serious success cases I didn't see back in the day, like Bass by Shay Mitchell crushing it. And I probably wouldn't have caught that one in full transparency. I would never, would never have thought that Shay Mitchell would be so dedicated to luggage. Whereas, like, I saw her deal with Onda and I passed on that, which was another ready to drink cocktail mix. So again, even if it's a celebrity, Bass worked out really well, or so far it's public knowledge of doing over $200 million. But her celebrity alcohol brand, Onda, I'm pretty sure, doesn't even operate still.
- [37:04]
B
There you go. Yeah, we interviewed Shay about a year ago and yeah, she's talking about Honda, she's talking about all these different things, but, yeah, Bass is killing it. And then you. And then you look at. I thought it was interesting. So we recently interviewed Allison from Poppy. Massive, massive deal. Right. But what was Interesting to me was I saw Olivia Munn and she came out and was like, oh, I'm an investor of this company. And I was like, oh my God, I had no idea. They actually had like quite a few celebrities behind that brand. I think Halsey was another one. There was, there was quite a few.
- [37:39]
A
Yeah. So I think that's what's really interesting and is like one of the blessings and the curse. And I think that's why celebrity investors has already been a thing. People are like, this is the future. This has been done like, you know, seven years ago when I worked at a startup, we had such cool celebrity investors. One of which I was able to put on the COVID of Time magazine with the product in her mouth. Like it just completely took the brand to another trajectory. I think that is where celebrities will move more towards.
- [38:06]
B
Can you share which one that is?
- [38:08]
A
Gwyneth Paul Jo. Ah, it's interesting because I think celebrities will, I hopefully will stop being founders of brands and will really navigate to this investor world because it's a passive opportunity for them. Like think about all of the amazing press that Olivia Munn has gotten the last week of her being an investor. But like you didn't even know that she was connected to the brand. So it's a way to like make money when it works out. It's amazing. But it doesn't necessarily, like it's not a reputational thing if it doesn't work out because they were just an investor. They weren't like the founder of the brand. Do you know what I mean?
- [38:43]
B
Yeah, yeah. So talk me through your most successful investments thus far.
- [38:49]
A
Blah. I think it's interesting because so when I was at a previous fund, we actually invested in Poppy. I didn't lead the deal but like I was a part of the process and like, so that's a great thing to be able to be like, oh, I saw that deal, I was a part of the investment committee. We said yes and like there's a success. Although I have no carry on it. I think for me as like I've been an individual investor for the last three years. Like it's amazing to see the companies get marked up on paper. Like Alara, I invested in, in this series, series in the seed and. Sorry, I invested in the series A, which Google led and then just a few weeks ago we announced that they got like a 26 million dollar investment from index Ventures. So for anybody that doesn't know how venture works, it's typically you'll see an exit from like seven to 10 years from when you first invest. And it's really hard to have a very long feedback loop where you have like zero idea if you're making the right decisions and you don't know how to change your strategy if you are, except for like additional rounds and markups on paper, which is essentially no liquidity, but like you have an idea of if it's growing and if other investors see the vision that you see and are going to continue it through. So over the last year I've had a lot of those, which is like, you know, we get. We go from like a $10 million Series A or a seed $4 million investment to like now a few of the companies have done monster series Bs with like super reputable firms. But in terms of like my favorite, I would probably say it would be Alara, the one I just mentioned, because it's a women's PCOS endometriosis platform. And as somebody with pcos, I felt this lack of attention from the healthcare industry for women. And it's an entire platform built for you to have the right services, telehealth, obgyn support supplements products. And the founders of again, solo female founder who's now raised $26 million from index. Like not that many solo female founders can say they've done that, especially in this climate. So. And it's also just really cool because I talk about it a lot on my TikTok that a lot of people kind of associate me with Alara. So they'll all get messages every day being like, I signed up and I got help for my pcos because of you and like I wouldn't have known about it otherwise. And it costs $0 for Rachel to have me do that and it ultimately ends up helping the company. So I think for me, my favorites and like most successful are, are those where I feel like I'm actually contributing to the company and they're actually doing better in terms of their trajectory and their success.
- [41:28]
B
Yeah. And what traits, what traits are you looking for in a founder? Because you talk obviously female ledge kind of got to be behind what's your thesis and, and talk me through the, the traits that you look for in a founder to back.
- [41:44]
A
I think somebody who just will figure it out. And it's interesting because like, as a, as a person who loves to help, it's actually the companies that like need your help the most that are the most concerning because like, not that I'm looking for founders just to be able to do everything themselves. And I think a big, big skill set you need is to be able to ask for help and be able to hire people. Like I always say that with founders, I'm like, your job should essentially be hiring and like selling things, selling employees to come and join you, selling investors to invest, selling customers. And it's interesting because I think it's hard to tell so quickly. And that's why I've struggled with the idea of raising a fund because you're deploying capital on such a consistent basis. Whereas for us, we really get to know people, like we have multiple calls or in person meetings to try to understand like how do they solve problems. One of the things that I do that's like a little bit weird is I kind of manufacture like not a bad situation, but just something that might throw them off their game to see what, how they respond during diligence. So I'll say like, oh, somebody told me this about you. Like, like what do you think? Like, not like somebody told me like that something that bad about you. But I'll say somebody told me that they had a bad experience with the company at this thing. Like what would you say about that? And it's like the people that are deflective and get super defensive and are like, well, they don't know X, Y and Z. Those are probably not the people that I want to invest into, but the people that are curious and are like, oh my gosh, tell me more about that. Like, I can't believe that was the experience with my brand. Like, I'm mortified. Like, well, what can we do about it? Those are the people where I'm like, okay, emotional intelligence is high and they're willing to solve problems and not be like a defensive leader. So I think it's just, again it's, it's so situational. It's not like we're only investing into the charismatic, run through walls type of leader or we have some amazing introverted leaders. It's really just a sense of getting to know them and how they solve problems, how they manage people and how they're really going to be long term. Because I always say this, like bringing on an investor, getting them off of your cap table is harder than getting a divorce. In California. It is extremely hard to get out of an investor founder relationship and it's for seven to 10 years. So like you need to make sure that you know that you can work with them.
- [44:14]
B
Yeah. And I think especially for first time founders, there's this idea, not some, there's this idea naivety that you want this deal done. But then you don't really think about what happens after. Right. And I think that that goes to, goes to show for any, any kind of deal. Right. You always in the mind, in the mindset of I just want this done and you go up and back and then the, the real tests are after it's done because everyone's excited, right. Everyone's thinking big picture, everyone's thinking best possible case. But yeah, like you said, it's, it's, it's, it's a long term relationship.
- [44:55]
A
Well and I think that's like the same thing with what I was saying about celebrity brands. Right. Like everybody's excited when it first launches. Like there's always going to be excitement at the beginning. Like that's what we dream of at startups is like how can you create new news? Like that's why I always recommend people drop like one product, not a full SKU lineup right away. Because I'm like, then it gives the consumer like new news to think about when you're doing more. And so it's interesting like whether it's investor relationships or celebrities or anything, it's like people love the beginning celebration. But what actually is like the make or break of successful companies is like what you said, like what happens after and like what's the consistent cadence of those moments.
- [45:38]
B
Yeah. So we have to work towards wrapping up. Maggie, I'm curious, tell me about where you see, see the future of direct to consumer going. You really tapped into the subculture. You're massive on Tick tock. Talk me through where you see it going.
- [45:54]
A
Yeah, I think like, I mean I could get really tangible and specific like social selling and live shopping is the future, which I do think like even when I'm thinking about, okay, why would you ever read 30Amazon reviews when you can watch three videos of a product and understand like the unboxing and how it works and reviews that are live. It's just people crave those people experiences. And so I think for sure like that to be super tangible is like very much social selling. I think we're going to be buying more from our friends than we will from larger celebrities. I think word of mouth has always been the most powerful tool for marketing. I think that if you have a recommendation from a friend, you're more likely to buy that than a recommendation from a celebrity. I think I also think that like in general of where we're going, people say, you know, consumer investing is definitely not where the eyeballs are or the money is flowing from like an LP perspective. But it's so interesting to see stuff like poppy because you're like consumers will always be consumers and consumers will always need to buy stuff. And so it gets me really excited as this like AI craze takes off of like you hear these crazy investments and crazy rounds in AI, but at the end of the day it's like, like the consumer still needs to eat, still needs to drink, still wants to look pretty, still wants to buy things. Like they are still buying things. Consumer is very much alive. So I'm really excited about that and I think it's just for me, I think the future of E commerce specifically is very much just going to be a place where like it's personalized. Like everything I think will be personalized, especially with AI where it's less generic now. So everything that you want is very much to you. So even with in terms of health and like healthcare, it's like getting supplements I think will be like no one will order B12 on Amazon anymore. I think you'll get a blood test that will tell you like this is what you are deficient in and then there'll be like compounded medications or a specific supplement that's sent to you. I think everything will be super personalized.
- [48:03]
B
Yeah. And I have to ask you, Nude sticks, how did you get involved and why?
- [48:09]
A
That's like my whole background. We're actually doing an event next week together. But so I first got involved, I've actually known, we're both Canadian. I first got involved in the brand actually as an advisor. So they brought me on because they were really struggling with celebrity strategic celebrity partnerships that were like much bigger than just like a one off influencer campaign. And it really grew from there. So I have touched like every role with them, like advisor, investor, now partner, collaborator. We've done our own shade launch. Like it's so interesting to sit across the business in all of these different facets and I think that's what's so unique about my role with any brand is like now I come at things from every single direction. Consumer, investor, advisor, partner, creator. And so with them it's this really like really special celebration I guess of like being behind the scenes and you know, grinding it out to now, showing women that it's like you can start one place, it doesn't mean where you're gonna end up. And yeah, that one was definitely very special.
- [49:16]
B
Yeah, you have such a multifaceted career. All right, so final takeaways. If listeners were to take away one lesson from this conversation, what should it be?
- [49:30]
A
I think it goes back to like the words of Simon Sinek, which is like, like know your why and understand it, whether you're trying to create content, be an entrepreneur or even just be an incredible like employee. Like I think that's also something we don't glamorize enough is like these senior leadership roles and executive roles at these companies, like everybody that's successful, I think honestly has a why and instead of just doing it for like money or fame or clout, it's like really trying to understand what makes, makes you unique and have that competitive advantage. And also like not falling victim to the hype cycles. Like I think to our point of what we talked about, like building a personal brand and Poppy's exit. And it's so easy to look at social media and think about all of the things that like you don't have, you weren't involved in. Like I even felt that, right. Like I go online and I'm like, I should be doing X, Y and Z. But I think it's like, like the people that have those breakthroughs just stay so laser focused on their why and don't give in to the hype of what's like currently popular because I don't know if that will be what's popular in three months when the initial excitement dies. Right. So I, I think it's, yeah, it's really understanding you, your why and then just really staying laser focused on that and not giving in to like the hype of, of the trend cycle that just moves so incredibly quickly now.
- [50:55]
B
Yeah. One last question. You're so multifaceted and you're a founder, creator, you run like you've got your own syndicate, your own VC venture fund. Do you sell? Do you see yourself more as a founder or a creator or an investor?
- [51:14]
A
I see myself as a community builder, like across all of those. Honestly, like, that's what I was always good at when I was working at startups. That's what I've like been so successful at with my own. I think if I had to pick one, it would be an entrepreneur. Like I started my first business literally at seven, like a pet business in my neighborhood. And I was always hustling throughout college, like doing calligraphy businesses and gift wrapping. And I was a promoter and I was always just like flipping handbags and just hustling. And so I think for me, what I identify with the most as an entrepreneur, I always say I'm like a multi hyphenate creative entrepreneur. So I think I'm still working on this whole idea of being a creator, it still shocks me that people, like, I'll be at an event where people come to see me, and I'm like, this is crazy. Like, I can't believe people are here. So I think for me, what I'm the most comfortable with is entrepreneur.
- [52:06]
B
Awesome. Well, we have to wrap there, Maggie, but thank you so much for your time. We're basically on time, so this was an amazing interview. Thank you for being so vulnerable and just open and honest and candid. Really appreciate this time. You've forgiven us.
- [52:22]
A
Thank you so much for having me, Nathan. I really appreciate it.
- [52:24]
B
All right, so if you love this episode, make sure to check out my interview with Alex Hormozi on how he scales companies from zero straight to $2 million a month in less than a year.
- [52:36]
C
You were like, how have you cheap? You cheaper? Like, there's five years of my life that disappeared. In fact, I lost all the money, which I talk about in the book. I had all the gyms, I did the turnarounds, and then I had $0 dollars five years later because of mistakes that I made. But the things that I was gaining was not the money. It was the skills. It was the character traits and the beliefs.