← The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan
The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan
568: How This High School Dropout Became a Self-Made Millionaire | Brittney Saunders
01:19:17
In this episode, Brittney Saunders, founder of FAYT, Staple Swim, Form Active, and OUTDŌ, shares how she went from YouTuber to multi-brand empire builder—running multiple 7-figure businesses with a hands-on, no-agency approach.
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- [00:02]
Nathan Chan
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- [00:49]
Brittany Saunders
People often ask me, how do you do it? I'll be the first person to tell you, I had no idea what I was doing when I first started Fate. And you don't need to know everything. If you've got an idea and you've got the determination and the drive, you'll figure out the rest as you go. And if I'm being honest, I'm still doing that today. I'm still just figuring this shit out. Even back to when I first started those YouTube videos in high school. No matter all the things that I've done in between now and then, I'm just still Britney from Newcastle.
- [01:12]
Nathan Chan
From being one of Australia's first YouTubers to building five multimillion dollar labels, she's built a fashion empire from scratch.
- [01:18]
Brittany Saunders
With no degree, no investors and no business background, today's guest is Brittany Saunders. Even though I've got all this amazing stuff happening in my life, I always have this major sense of disappointment that my mum and dad haven't been a part of any of it.
- [01:32]
Nathan Chan
Do you think you would have been more successful?
- [01:34]
Brittany Saunders
If I'm being honest, no. Having no support or guidance, I think that's why I've been able to be so successful. But I also think it's me trying to prove something to them.
- [01:45]
Nathan Chan
If you could go back to start fate again, what would you say?
- [01:49]
Brittany Saunders
A lot of people hold themselves back because they're scared. What will people say? What will my family think? What will the girls that I went to school with think? Who gives a fuck? Do it scared. Anyway, hear the stories, learn the proven methods and accelerate your growth and future through entrepreneurship. Welcome to the Founder Podcast with Nathan Chan.
- [02:17]
Nathan Chan
Brittany Saunders. Thank you so much for coming down to Melbourne all this way. Yep.
- [02:24]
Brittany Saunders
One hour flight. Yep.
- [02:25]
Nathan Chan
All this way. What's something you've never said publicly about your journey but you think more people need to hear?
- [02:34]
Brittany Saunders
It's hard because I've been sharing my life online since I was a teenager. That's when my journey began, when I discovered that website called YouTube and it was brand new back in the day. So people always want to know more about me, especially the people that have followed me for so long. And when it came to me releasing my book, I had messages of people saying, I've been following you for 10 years and I'm hoping there's something or more that I can get to know about you when I read your book. And then I'm like, oh, hopefully I'm going to put some new things in the book. Because I've been sharing my life online, candidly, for, I want to say, 15 years. And especially in those early years when I was youtubing and all that was starting to become a thing in Australia, I really was sharing everything. And I've Definitely, over the 15 years, stripped back and I guess in a way started to share less. Even though it seems like I'm sharing everything, I think my life has actually become more private, even though the content amount has increased over the years. But doing this for so long, you do become super mindful of what you say online, especially in 2025. You know how savage the Internet can be. You can never be too careful. So I wouldn't say that there's anything that I have never said on the. I mean, there's probably lots of things that I've never said on the Internet before that people would like me to say. But I think a big one, which I touch on a little bit in my book, and I know we were chatting about it earlier this morning, is that I'm. On one hand, I'm so happy that my life has turned out this way and everything that I'm doing. If I told myself 15 years ago, this is what you're going to be doing when you're 32, like, I'd be ecstatic and you would just. I wouldn't believe it, I'd say you're joking. But I think the one thing that I feel is even though I'm so proud and that's another thing I'm really learning to do, is like, be proud of myself. I feel like it's a hard thing to do when you're achieving all these things. I don't know what it is, imposter syndrome, but I would say the one thing is Even though I've got all this amazing stuff happening in my life, I always have this major sense of disappointment that my mum and dad like haven't been a part of any of it. And I just have always felt like, what a missed opportunity. And I'd say that's a thing that I've touched on a tiny bit in my podcast, in my book, but only a little speckle. And even still, when I do say that, people will message me and say, oh my goodness, I had no idea, you know. So yeah, I would say that's a part of me that I don't talk about much online or I've just mentioned here and there because it's hard because that's really personal, like when you're talking about family. But I'd say that's the one thing that I wish I had in my life because I feel like it's just what's the point, you know?
- [05:36]
Nathan Chan
So do you think you would have been more successful?
- [05:39]
Brittany Saunders
That's a funny question because if I'm being honest. No, I think that because like, for context, my dad walked out of my life when I was 14. He ran away with a woman. And then from that, like my mum and I were just on and off, like my whole life through those developmental teenage years and into my early 20s. And she's not in my life right now, I think because I felt like I had no choice but to just figure life out for myself. I think that's why I've been so successful. You know, they say people either have it in them or they don't. And I believe that as well. Like it takes a certain type of person to like start a business and build it into an empire. But I do think, weirdly enough, that having no support or guidance even when I was in school, you know, like dad wasn't in the picture. And with my mum it was, I don't give a shit if you don't go to school. Like, see if I care. Like that was kind of the vibe of our household, I think, just that non support and no one telling me like, you know, go to uni or study hard, which I know a lot of people grow up with like that support of their parents and their parents wanting them to do well. And I think back to when like my dad was in my life when I was a teenager, it was like, you're going to amount to nothing, you know. And I think it was that combined with the on and off relationship with my mum. So throughout those teen years, I think that's why I've been able to be so successful and I think in a way it's me motivating myself because I had no one else to push me in any kind of direction. But I also think deep down it's me trying to prove something to them to be like, I can do it without you. And I think it's weirdly enough just being my fire. Not that I, you know, think about them when I'm making any decision because they've never been there for any decision. But maybe, you know, like I said, I've never been to therapy, but I think I'm pretty self aware and I think if I went to therapy I would find out that the reason why I have this drive and why I'm so confident is because like my parents never pushed me in that direction. And I figured it out on my own. I dropped out of school in year. I wanted to drop out of school in year 10, but I stayed because my friend said stay. And then I dropped out in year 11 because I just wanted to work. I had no interest in going to uni or anything. And I've just figured out life every ever since. And I'm still figuring it out. So as disappointed as I am every now and then, especially, you know, this week I'm almost doing like a press tour this week and I'm going around to all of our five, eight stores and we're doing like a community event. We've got a PR night in the middle of it. We've got six events across six nights. It's in moments like this where I'm so excited and can't believe that I'm getting to do this within our community. But then like, that's when the thoughts come into my head. Oh my God, like, wouldn't this be so cool if I had a mom and dad that could come along to these things to cheer me on or like be proud of me. And it's so crazy as well because I obviously have this massive online community and people that have followed me forever. And even like at the airport this morning, like the ladies checking us in at security, they're like 50 something year old ladies and like Brittany, like, you know, and I have literal strangers coming up to me saying, I'm so proud of you. You should be so proud of all the work that you've done. And that always makes me go like, shit, like, you know, I can't believe that there are strangers out there that support me more than my parents ever have. And that's the weirdest thing ever. But I'm very grateful for it.
- [09:25]
Nathan Chan
Yeah. Thank you for sharing. And, you know, I can resonate partly with this because we were talking about this before, so my parents did push me, but they never really believed in me. So my dad used to, you know, my parents are super supportive now and they see what I'm doing now. But like before, you know, my parents used to say to family, friends, they joke, well, if things don't work out for Nathan, we can always get him a Jim's Mowing franchise.
- [09:51]
Brittany Saunders
Oh, my goodness. So, I mean, Jim's Mowing is still slaying and they've, they've branched out. They've got laundry, they've got hair, they've got beauty, they've got everything.
- [10:00]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't get me wrong, I ended up interviewing Jim.
- [10:04]
Brittany Saunders
I know how well, circle moment for you.
- [10:07]
Nathan Chan
Yeah. But so I can, I can relate to, you know, want to feel encouraged, want, like, you know, want to feel.
- [10:14]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah, I just feel like it's a part of my life that's missing and, you know, I think it's been an eye opening experience for my partner aj. He, like, we met when Fate was about to launch, like all those years ago and I'm sure he would have walked into my life being like, what is going on here? And he came to the launch party and he would have been like, what is this? Because he was just an electrician and I think it's been really interesting for him to kind of come into my world eight years ago now, however long it's been. And obviously he's in Fate now, like he runs Fate with me, which is just the craziest thing ever. And we never planned that. It just naturally happened. He was the volunteer for the first few years of Fate, finishing work and coming and helping me in the garage pack the orders. And I think it's been interesting for him as well because his parents are still together. Like, it's pretty rare for people's parents to be together these days. I feel like everyone, even when I went to school, everyone had a mum's house and a dad's house. But even interesting for him to watch me do all the things that I've been doing and him to see, like, I don't have a mum or dad there and he's got this mum and dad who would do anything for him or like, like he could call them anytime, be like, help, I'm in trouble. And so, yeah, I just always look at people who have parents in their life and parents that support them or are proud of them for like the smallest little achievement, like even just like getting little pay rise or getting a different job title and how proud parents can be. And then it just kind of makes you feel like shit when you know, I've done all these great things. I like to think I'm a good person. I'm like, what a waste. You know, every time a 60 year old woman is nice to me at the airport or wherever and they say they follow me online, I'm always in the back of my mind thinking, do you want a new daughter? Look at you. Adopt. But like I don't have any bad feelings towards my parents, I think. I don't know, I've just had a bit of a different experience when it comes to being a child of two people. And my sister has had an extremely different experience with the both of them. And that's disappointing as well because I think our relationship has been so different to what it could have been had we had the same experience. But like, at the end of the day, like, I'm so thankful because I often think, you know, if I did grow up in a traditional home where I was pushed to do well and finish year 12 and get a good ATAR. Is that what it's called these days, ATAR? That's what it was back when I went to school.
- [12:48]
Nathan Chan
I don't know, we call vce. Oh yeah, yeah, for me it was vce.
- [12:52]
Brittany Saunders
I think it's atar, but I don't know if it's changed.
- [12:54]
Nathan Chan
No. Enter. No. Yeah, that was called Interscore.
- [12:57]
Brittany Saunders
There you go. Well, New South Wales is atar, but it could be something different now. It's been a while since I went to school, but I often think, you know, if I had grown up in a, a home where I was encouraged to go to uni, imagine how different my life might look today had had I had parents that pushed me to do that. So like, I'm grateful.
- [13:15]
Nathan Chan
You definitely are not lacking confidence. You've built four, five multimillion dollar brands. Fate, Staple, Swim Form, Outdo Collective, Outdo.
- [13:26]
Brittany Saunders
Expresso, and we have Glazy too now and Glazy, Yeah.
- [13:29]
Nathan Chan
Yes. So you know, you've got a really incredible track record. So I'm curious, like, tell me, how did this thing start? Like, obviously you started on YouTube. Yeah, you, you were a content creator before it was a thing, you were an influencer. Now that now we're called content creators. Yep, that's the cool thing. But like how, like why, why did you start there? Like, like how?
- [13:52]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah, so when I Was in high school, I think it would have been year eight, I discovered YouTube. It was a brand new website. And that was when, like, you can imagine what the Internet was like back then. YouTube looked completely different. This was before your Instagram, your Snapchat, Like, I think There was just MySpace and Facebook had just come out. And then there was YouTube. And Facebook was for the old people. Like, the mums were on there. That was embarrassing. And so I found this website called YouTube. And even thinking before year eight, when I was a little kid, our next door neighbors, they had like a desktop computer with like the webcam on top of it, you know those, like little ball ones. Yeah. And so any chance that I got, I would go to their house and use their computer and I would use Windows Movie Maker on the little webcam and I would like talk to the webcam, like just being silly, but I just remember loving talking to the camera even when I was, you know, seven or eight. So then found YouTube, thought, this is great. Watched some other people on there that were starting out and becoming these YouTubers. I think it was mainly Americans that like jumped onto it first. And I thought, I want to do that. I had a laptop at the time with a webcam on it, like a really old Mac. And so I would just sit in my room at night and just. I just started like talking to the camera and just being. I was really not confident and I kind of just did it for me. And then I started uploading them there. And then I told a few of my friends at school, like, this is what I'm doing. And so we made some videos together. And I think it was like little music video, or we would throw toilet paper around the room and then put it in reverse and it looked really cool. So those are the kinds of videos that I was making just for fun.
- [15:37]
Nathan Chan
Yeah.
- [15:37]
Brittany Saunders
And so people just started watching in high school, and I'm sure it was just all the kids in my school, because I was at one weirdo that had this YouTube channel and they picked on me a little bit for it. And I would go home crying and then mum would say, you delete the videos.
- [15:51]
Nathan Chan
Yep.
- [15:52]
Brittany Saunders
But I kept going. I kept going, just delete those fucking stupid videos, you know? But I kept going, I kept going. And those videos that I was uploading back then, you know, they'd be getting 100 views, 200 views, and then, you know, as the months went by, it was a thousand views and 2000 and my subscribers started going up, you know, 2000, 3000, 5000, 10,000. Then Instagram came out. Perfect, I'm gonna start an Instagram page. Then I started that Instagram page and I started saying at the end of my videos, make sure you come follow me on Instagram. And so it was just years of consistent uploading throughout high school. And then I dropped out of school and just went out into the workforce.
- [16:42]
Nathan Chan
Yep.
- [16:42]
Brittany Saunders
From the ages of 14 to 21, I worked in over 20 jobs. Yeah, I would get a job and straight away, like I would know if I liked it or didn't. And if I didn't like it, I'd quit it and get another one. From waitressing to working in retail. Maccas, Subway, Baskin Robbins, you name the fast food place, I did shifts there.
- [17:04]
Nathan Chan
Yep.
- [17:04]
Brittany Saunders
It might have been six months worth of shifts or it might be in two weeks. Yeah. Then I went into waitressing. Then I went into your traditional admin roles because I thought maybe if I do like a 9 to 5, then I've made it, you know, that's the dream, isn't it?
- [17:17]
Nathan Chan
Yeah.
- [17:17]
Brittany Saunders
So then I, I wound up working in full time roles all while I was still making those YouTube videos and posting on the Instagram account. And so by the time I got to the age of 21, I had 80,000 YouTube subscribers, which back then that was pretty big. And this is when we would, you know, beauty gurus were a thing. And I guess people would consider me that back in the day because I was doing all makeup tutorials and stuff and I sucked at makeup, but I just like making the videos. So, you know, yeah, watch me do this makeup tutorial that isn't very good with this makeup that I bought for $2 from Kmart. And so I was 21, I had 80,000 YouTube subscribers, maybe 20,000 on Instagram.
- [18:00]
Nathan Chan
Yep.
- [18:00]
Brittany Saunders
And this is when we saw brands starting to realize that people like me existed. And so I started getting paid to do little brand deals, like posting an Instagram photo, holding a product up next to my face. The first brand that ever paid me was actually Colgate.
- [18:15]
Nathan Chan
Oh, there you go.
- [18:16]
Brittany Saunders
So back then, because these small Instagram brands didn't exist back then, this was when there was just big brands. Like there wasn't such thing as like small businesses was someone that like baked something from home. And it was just like a word of mouth thing.
- [18:29]
Nathan Chan
Yeah. Or you sell at the market.
- [18:30]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah. You have little soaps at the markets, whatever. But there was none of these like Instagram brands back then. So I was getting contacted by these big companies. And so the first paid gig that I did was with Colgate for their Optic White toothpaste.
- [18:42]
Nathan Chan
How much they pay you?
- [18:44]
Brittany Saunders
They paid me, I think $1,500, which back then to me I was like, I'm loaded. 1500 plus, like I'm working a full time job that I'm taking home $500 a week at the time. So, like, that's the three weeks pay for two YouTube videos, you know, And I did this review of their optic white toothpaste. And you want to know something funny? I still use that toothpaste. I have never not used that toothpaste ever. So I've spent more than 1500 bucks on that toothpaste since then. So that's a great memory. Anyway, I started earning a little bit of pocket money through my YouTube ads and through these brands. And, you know, I was getting paid $80 to do an Instagram photo.
- [19:26]
Nathan Chan
There you go.
- [19:27]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah. And so it started just here, there and everywhere, Earning a little bit of money from the sponsorships. And it got to a point where YouTube was paying once a month. I was getting these little $80 here, $100 there from these brands. And it got to a point where I figured it out that if I threw in my full time job that I was getting $500 a week for, my dream was to earn 52 grand a year. A thousand dollars a week?
- [19:54]
Nathan Chan
Yep.
- [19:55]
Brittany Saunders
I thought if I can. And back then, like, that was the dream. Yeah, I thought like I'd be set. Yeah. A thousand bucks a week. Oh my goodness.
- [20:05]
Nathan Chan
Yeah.
- [20:05]
Brittany Saunders
And so I just decided one day to quit my full time job that I had in Newcastle, Just working in an office. And I thought, I'm going to give this YouTube thing a red hot crack.
- [20:19]
Nathan Chan
And that was 2015.
- [20:22]
Brittany Saunders
Oh, I'm really bad at maths. That's actually one thing. I'm really bad.
- [20:27]
Nathan Chan
You were 21? Yeah. Yeah, she is at 21.
- [20:30]
Brittany Saunders
So 11 years ago.
- [20:31]
Nathan Chan
Yep. Okay. So, yeah, 2014.
- [20:34]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah. And so I thought, what's the worst that's gonna happen if I quit this job? I'd had over 20 by this point. I'd worked everywhere, like sales. I worked at a school camp at one point teaching kids how to do sport. I'm not even sporty, but like, I just was willing to give anything a go because I was looking for something that I enjoyed. And so I threw in that job at 21 and have never looked back. Like, that was the start of me figuring out my journey to becoming a business owner. And throughout working all of those jobs and starting that YouTube channel and doing my Instagram. I dabbled in a lot of other things that felt like hobbies, but now, reflecting back, they were businesses.
- [21:15]
Nathan Chan
Like what?
- [21:17]
Brittany Saunders
So at one stage, I was living in, like, a rental share house that was on a sloping block. And underneath the back of the house there was, like, a storage shed where you'd put, like, the lawn mower. So I put a spray tan tent in there and, like, a table. I went to the local beauty supply shop in Newcastle, and I bought the spray tan solution, the machine, off ebay, and I started using my Facebook account to do $15 spray tans. I had people come into my house, and I'd walk them down the back steps into this little brick room, and I get $15. And I got really busy at one point. That's awesome. And I just thought, I must have been 19 at the time, and I was still working full time. I'd do it on, like, Thursday nights and whatever. And then because of the YouTube makeup thing, I kind of got good at makeup. Then I started a makeup business. So I would go to someone's house and do their makeup for their 18th or whatever or school formals. So I did a bit of that. I had a body scrub business as well when I was around 20, just making up coffee scrubs at home. Because I saw that Frank Body had just started, I thought, I'm going to do that too. And these were just all little things that I did. And I just thought it was fun. Like, I didn't really think this is a business. And I never, like, set up a business, bank account or anything. I just had it all going into my personal account or people giving me cash in hand. There was just so many things that I did, like, in my teens that were signs that I was destined, I guess, to be an entrepreneur. But because I'd never had anyone in my life, like, to say, oh, like, you're showing signs of being an entrepreneur. Like, you should keep this thing going. Like, I just thought they were fun little hobbies, but turns out it was me trying to, you know, start a business. And so I just always tried anything and everything. Like, even thinking back to when I was, you know, a little kid, like, I would set up little stalls out the front of my house and try and, like, sell my things or sell my Easter eggs. Not that I ever got a customer, but I just always loved playing shops or, you know, and so I had no idea at the time. But, yeah, looking back, there were so many things that I did before starting fate that were just signs that maybe I was meant to be my own boss. And that's why I hated every job that I had because I was destined to do my own thing. I just had to try all the things to get to that point of realizing, oh, shit, like, this is what I want to do, actually. And so after the age of 21 and quitting that full time job at 80,000 YouTube subscribers, I then spent the next three years hustling on that YouTube channel four to five videos every single week. And the channel grew from 80,000 to a million subscribers. And that's when, like all the money started coming in. The AdSense money, the big brand deals and everything, the massive Instagram audience. It just happened over three years, so it wasn't overnight. The Internet back then was a lot different. You know, you can post 10 TikToks now and people can go viral and have a following overnight. But it was, yeah, three years of consistent uploading and entertaining and yeah, it's a grind community building. And then, yeah, I got to a million subscribers at the age of 24.
- [24:29]
Nathan Chan
Yep.
- [24:30]
Brittany Saunders
And it was also around then that I launched Fate. And again, people always ask, you know, so what was your inspiration best about starting Fate? There was. It was just another one of those things that I thought I would try. Like, I'll admit, I didn't have these big dreams. Yeah, we're going to be this clothing brand with all these stores and five stores and sizes 6 to 26. It was just me, like the little entrepreneur that I always was thinking, I'm going to try something else now. I tried decorating and selling iPhone cases at one point. Like, I just tried anything and everything. But Fate was the one that stuck and actually turned into more than me just doing something at home. And I guess the difference was I had an audience of a million when I started Fate, and that was like, obviously a customer base if I could do it right. But there was no thought. When I started Fate, I had saved a heap of money from doing all the YouTube stuff, so I had enough money to get my shipping bags and like all the things. And I went to Bunnings with AJ because he'd just gotten with me. And we were, we had a double garage underneath our rental that we would both park our cars in. I said, aj, you're going to have to park on the street from, from here on out because I'm setting up this little business in the shed again. I always say, what were you thinking, like, at that point, like the start of our relationship? Like, I don't know, I just let you do Whatever it was you gonna do. And so we went to Bunnings in Newcastle. I bought some plastic tubs. How many do we need? Let's just start with like 12, like to put the stock in. Just line them up on the floor. Figured out how to manufacture stuff overseas.
- [26:11]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, tell me about that. Because a lot of people, that's where they get stuck.
- [26:15]
Brittany Saunders
Well, yeah, I think it's overwhelming. I made a few good connections being an influencer with people that were in the fashion industry and they, they were able to like, point me in the right direction of being able to get stuff made. Um, I didn't know anything about Alibaba back then. Um, but I know now that's like, everyone's like, place that they go if they're wanting to make anything.
- [26:36]
Nathan Chan
Yes.
- [26:37]
Brittany Saunders
But I had a few people that I knew and they said, hey, work with these people. So I got given some connections.
- [26:42]
Nathan Chan
Yep.
- [26:43]
Brittany Saunders
For manufacturers. Yeah. And I worked with them for the first couple of years of Fate, but have since, like, moved on and work with different people now. But I think you're right, like, a lot of people do get extremely overwhelmed when it comes to starting a business. And because there's so many businesses out there now and everyone seems to have their shit together. And when you're brand new, you can be like, oh, my God, I have no idea what I'm doing, but I'll be the first person to tell you. I had no idea what I was doing when I first started Fate. And you don't need to know everything. You just need to have a laptop or and a phone and you can figure it all out. And the beauty of business is if you've got an idea and you've got the determination and the drive, you'll figure out the rest as you go. Get all the things that you need, get your shipping bags, sign up to Australia Post, build your Shopify website. I did it all myself. I taught myself how to do E commerce photography. I bought a paper backdrop off ebay. I got girls that I knew in Newcastle to come into my shed and I was shooting my website images. Like, it was just very. Figure it out as I go. And if I'm being honest, I'm still doing that today. Like, I'm still just figuring this shit out. I say to like, if we're ever dealing with, you know, a staff issue or whatever at Fate, I'm like, I'm just a girl. Like, I'm just still trying to figure this out for myself. This is my first time I'm owning a business. Give me a break. But, yeah, it was just figuring stuff out as I went. And fate started in the. The little shed under my house. We had a townhouse, it was on the bottom floor. Hired my first employee there it was AJ's mom's family friend's daughter, you know, and she was coming over to my house two to three days a week to just help me doing all the things, help me shipping out the orders, processing the returns, just being an all rounder. And I thought, I didn't think beyond that point, at that moment in time, because I had no idea what I was doing. I didn't have a dream of this turning into something big. I just loved doing what I thought were little hobbies. And then it went big. It went big from the shed.
- [28:43]
Nathan Chan
And I think that's the best place to start, right?
- [28:45]
Brittany Saunders
It is it. And one thing that I didn't do back then when I started fate, was I didn't show that part on social media. So I announced to the world that I've got this fashion brand. And I would go upstairs because we had a spare bedroom, which I turned into my little home office. So I would go on my YouTube channel in the home office. But I would never show the shed because I was scared what people would think, because, I don't know, people on the Internet can be savage. And back then, I was the only one really doing it. And so if I could have my time over again, and especially if it was in 2025, I would have documented the shit out of me in the shed. I'm like, this is me packing an order. But I thought, oh, no, if I show people my dodgy garage setup and me packing clothes and doing everything in my little desk that I got from officeworks, they're going to think that my business isn't legit. And even I thought the business wasn't legit because it was just this little hobby that I'd started, you know, because I didn't have a big business mindset back then. Like, I was just a girl giving something new a go. I had no goals, I had no plans. I wasn't looking at any of our finances. When I started Fate, like, I had a decent amount of money in savings. I didn't track how much it cost me to start. Like, I just was paying for shit as I. As I needed it. And I think that's the thing with business. Like, yeah, it's great to have a business plan and a marketing strategy and finance report, but also sometimes it's just about starting.
- [30:12]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, I Agree. That's, that's, that's the biggest thing that holds people back is just starting, right?
- [30:16]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah.
- [30:16]
Nathan Chan
And getting that momentum.
- [30:18]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah. Just starting is the hardest bit.
- [30:20]
Nathan Chan
For many. Yeah, for many, for many. So you started this brand in your garage. Now it's an eight figure business. Multiple retail stores. With that YouTube following, though, like, you must have, like, did at least like, you know, a million dollars in the first year, Right. Like, did it boom, like, talk us through that.
- [30:42]
Brittany Saunders
I don't. I'd have to go back Shopify and have a look. We would do like a launch and we would make like 20 grand. Yep. And I'd be like, holy shit. Like, you know, I mean, at that point as well, like, I was earning a decent amount of money myself because I was still in the YouTube prime, so I was probably earning, you know, 2 to 300 grand a year just through brand deals and YouTube stuff. But yeah, we would do drops and we'd have 20 grand worth of orders and we'd be packing for hours and hours. We did everything wrong as well. One story that I love sharing is I didn't know that you could have shipping labels that could be printed on a sticker. So what we would do for so long, like, even when we moved to our first and second warehouse, we still did it this way. Like, not just in the shed. We would print out our Australia Post shipping labels on an A4 piece of paper, but in the top left corner. And then we would have to do two cuts, like across and up. And that would be the shipping label rested on the parcel, four pieces of sticky tape around the outside. And we did that shit for at least two years. And then I discovered, oh, you can actually buy like a roll of Diamond Dymo. Yeah. Oh, look at this. But again, like, this is business. Like, you just start out, you know, you figure all these things out along the way. And Even today, in 2025, right now, like AJ and the Warehouse team, we're reconfiguring the whole warehouse and we're going to change the way we're doing everything. Because you never stop learning in business, even when you're so far in.
- [32:25]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, it's always a journey. Right. And there's levels. Yeah, it's. It's constantly evolving and. Yeah, talk to me. You know, I read Early Days, you didn't manage your taxes very well.
- [32:38]
Brittany Saunders
Yes.
- [32:39]
Nathan Chan
What happened there?
- [32:40]
Brittany Saunders
So again, I think this all comes back to me having no guidance. Growing up, I was never taught anything about finances ever. And they didn't teach it in school. Back then, maybe they do now. I thought that is one thing they could teach in school. How to do your tax. Yeah, how the do you do your tax? Don't ask me now. Got an accountant that does a lot. But I was in my YouTube prime. I had no parents around to teach me anything. And I moved to Sydney because that was what you did when you're a big cool YouTuber, you know, so you could go to all the events and whatever. And I was earning all this money. Like I went from dreaming of earning a thousand dollars a week, you know, the 52 grand that was my goal to. All of a sudden I'm doing, I'm making YouTube videos and posting a sponsored post every second day on Instagram and I'm earning hundreds of thousands a year and I'm seeing hundreds of thousands of dollars come into my bank account in chunks, like 20 grand, you know, because when you get paid, it's just random. One month it could be $5,000 and then the next month I've got 40 grand coming in. And so I'm in my early 20s, living in Sydney and all this money's coming in my bank account and I'm thinking, this is great. And I didn't have an accountant. I had never thought to do my own tax because up until that point I had regular jobs where the tax was already done for me on the pay slip. But I never even looked at it because I just never even thought twice about it.
- [34:09]
Nathan Chan
So you didn't set up a company or you didn't.
- [34:11]
Brittany Saunders
It was all going into the personal bank account because again, I never had a single person in my life around to say, hey, because you're earning all this money, you should set up a business, you know. So for the first few years where I started earning, like once I quit my full time job and built the channel and got to that million subscribers, I was earning all this money. But like I had nothing set up in the back end financially to support that. I didn't have an accountant, I didn't know how to do my tax myself. So I just went about life not doing it for a few years there because I had no idea. And then I don't know how it happened, but I got a call from the ATO one day and it was, you owe $110,000 to the tax man. And I just remember thinking, I'm going to jail, like I'm getting locked up. And so I went into this absolute spiral. And I had a talent manager at the time because they were like helping manage all my deals that I was doing, and they put me in touch with, like, one of their accountants or whatever. So then I finally got an accountant and we got on top of all of that. Now, thankfully, in those years that I was earning all that money, I wasn't going crazy and spending it.
- [35:25]
Nathan Chan
You weren't. Okay.
- [35:26]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah. And that's something. I'm really glad. And again, I don't know why I did that. Because you'd think, like a young girl in her twenties with all this money, I would have lashed out and just started buying, like, designer shit. And I was seeing fellow influencers doing that. Like, in those, I don't know, 2017-2019 era, it was all about everyone wearing Louis Vuitton and, like, getting a Range Rover. Like, I remember those Instagram days. I remember seeing everyone, you know, with their Gucci bags and everything and thinking, oh, that looks really nice. But I thankfully never did that. And so I had a lot of money in savings. So pretty quickly I was able to pay off that tax debt. And I. Yeah, I think I paid it off in $20,000 installments once a month or whatever because I had the money sitting in savings. So thank God for that.
- [36:17]
Nathan Chan
That's really impressive.
- [36:19]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah. So thankfully I. Yeah, I owed over 100 grand, but I had it there and I just paid it off. Because the longer you pay it off, they charge like 12% interest or something crazy when you're paying off a tax bill. So I paid that off as quickly as I could, but it was a good lesson for me back then. And then we set up the company properly. I got a business bank account and that's when, like, Brittany Lee Saunders Proprietary Limited started.
- [36:43]
Nathan Chan
Yep.
- [36:44]
Brittany Saunders
Because I got into trouble and thought I was going to jail.
- [36:48]
Nathan Chan
Great lesson. Yeah, great lesson. So you've built this incredible brand since. What's been really impressive is how now, like you said, you wish you had have documented now. You are right. And you have been for quite some time. You've got an incredible community with the Fate Society. You're just getting constant feedback. You're running drops every Wednesday.
- [37:13]
Brittany Saunders
Yep.
- [37:14]
Nathan Chan
Like, talk me through how that all came about, A lot of that stuff, because it's really impressive. But I'm sure you've just worked it out along the way.
- [37:22]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah, that's what, honestly, my whole career has been. And I think starting that YouTube channel when I was so young and learning how to build a community before building a community was even really a thing. And building a personal brand, I didn't know I was building a personal brand. I was just making the fun videos. But I think that is what has set me up for success in building Fate was because I just learned from being, since I was a teen, how to, how to entertain people, how to grab someone's attention. And I obviously had all those skills from YouTube that I could then take into starting Fate. And that was like, my strong point was like, I can build a community around this brand. But even then it was never intentional. I never thought I'm going to con these people into buying all my shit. It was just like I wanted to share my journey. And in doing so, we then have built this whole community within Fate. It's been completely organic. Like, I think organic marketing is the reason why we are where we are now and like why I'm doing what I'm doing. And I learn it all from YouTube, but there's no secret sauce or strategy. People often ask me, how do you do it? And I think it's just using my common sense and my personality. At the end of the day, there's no book that I could write that's like a step by step how to build a community online. It's simple. It's being yourself, it's just being authentic. I've never been afraid to look like an idiot or make fun of myself or laugh at myself. And I really think that's been one of the powers in doing everything that I've done. And I think even back to when I first started those YouTube videos in high school, no matter all the things that I've done in between now and then, I'm still the same. And people will say, you're still the same. Like, I've been following you for 10 years. Obviously I've grown up, matured a bit, learned a thing or two, but at the end of the day, I think I'm just still Brittany from Newcastle. And I think that's been like one of the, the biggest key factors in the success of Fate is that I've just always been open, transparent, sharing my story, the highs and the lows. And people have really resonated with that over the years and I think that's why the fake community is now so big.
- [39:40]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, you've done an incredible job. And I can see now that you're starting to build your YouTube channel again. Talk us through that. So it's because you don't have the old videos. They're all gone.
- [39:51]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah, I got rid of them all and just kept the ones about Fate. So if you go onto my YouTube channel, the few videos that Are there from all those years ago is when I started documenting, working at Fate, and it was when we moved out of the. Out of the garage. There's no videos of the garage, but there's videos of us in our first little 90 square meter warehouse. Because I thought, oh, now I can show this to people. Because it seems more legitimate that we're in a warehouse, not in my shed. Same thing anyway, just a little bit bigger. So, yeah, for the last couple of years, some of the girls at Fate and I, we've just been saying we should start the channel again. And also like our community saying, come back to YouTube, you know, because me letting go of YouTube about four years ago now was like a big decision for me to make because it was my everything at one point there. But then Fate became bigger and bigger and bigger and it was getting more serious that YouTube started to become not the priority because I had staff that I was looking after. And so at the end of last year, 2024, we said, let's just start the YouTube channel back up again in 2025. And so that's what we did. I think it was the first or second week of January this year. We. I signed back in, I had to figure out my password and everything. And we've been posting one video a week ever since. And it's just like a little side thing. It's just for fun. It's not really like we don't have any goals with it. It's just there for anyone that wants to watch it. And it just gives us another platform for people to see, you know, a little bit more than what they see on Instagram and Tick tock. And it's just fun.
- [41:26]
Nathan Chan
And you started other brands as well. Why, why, why start others? And why not just focus on one again?
- [41:34]
Brittany Saunders
That's just me being me. And I will try anything that pops into my mind. I don't have any hesitation when it comes to thinking of something and wanting to do it. Like, I'm just a weirdo. Like that. I will be laying in bed at night and I. Or I get out the shower and I say, aj and he goes, what? Like. Because he just knows I'm going to say, I've thought of a great idea. So, yeah, we had Fate and we just did, like, women's clothing. Then we did a swimwear drop with Fate.
- [42:04]
Nathan Chan
Yep.
- [42:07]
Brittany Saunders
And it went really, really, really well. And we called it the staple collection.
- [42:12]
Nathan Chan
Yep.
- [42:13]
Brittany Saunders
And it was like black and white swimmers, just really basic. And we used models that had all different body shapes and sizes. And skin tones. And this was in 2018, I want to say. And the response to it was just phenomenal because no one was really doing that back then, like, showing. Because it was in the Instagram era, where, you know, it was just, if you're in bikinis, you're like a Victoria's Secret model. And so, again, just using all these girls that I knew, and we hired a little Airbnb and did a photo shoot there, and it was just super successful. And I remember saying to AJ, We've got another brand here. And that's where StaplesWim came to be. But fun fact, I haven't been making StaplesWim for the last year and a half because I've been in my first ever legal battle.
- [43:01]
Nathan Chan
Oh, okay.
- [43:03]
Brittany Saunders
A trademark battle. Oh, I know about those.
- [43:06]
Nathan Chan
Yeah. Okay. So what happened?
- [43:09]
Brittany Saunders
There's a company that you said you love a story. Here's a good story for you. December 2023. Last day of work for the year. For our full timers, before the Christmas break, we're at the warehouse, because at the time we had our warehouse and the office was in it. And we're having our Christmas barbecue on the last Friday before everyone knocked off for two weeks over Christmas. That's another thing that we've always done. We've. We don't have any blackout periods over Christmas in our business. Even though we're in retail, our staff can always take the two weeks off, and AJ and I just flog ourselves through those two weeks and get all the orders out for bloody Boxing Day sales. Anyway, that's another story. My phone. No, my phone lit up, and I got an email from trademark lawyers, because we have been trying to get the Staple Swim trademark for so long by that point, and someone has challenged it. Yep.
- [44:05]
Nathan Chan
Yep.
- [44:05]
Brittany Saunders
And I remember my heart sinking like, we're having our Christmas games and AJ's cooking the barbecue, and I've got my email. I'm like, what the is this? When showed aj, he's like, oh, no. Great. Good. Another company has owned the trademark of the word staple, which I have no idea how they got that, because that is such a basic and descriptive word that every business and brand uses. They have owned it since 2009, and they're not happy that I'm trying to trademark Staple Swim. So we've been going back and forth ever since then, trying to win, and the lawyers are still confident that we've got this in the bag, and so we're still going. And so I made the decision back then, we had, like, stock at the. At the time, that was, like, still on the website and whatever. And we had other collections planned to come out and I didn't know how long this thing was going to take. And in the clause, it's, if we lose, we've got to burn our stock.
- [45:15]
Nathan Chan
Yeah.
- [45:17]
Brittany Saunders
And I'm going. Because we've never dealt with anything like this before. I'm like, what, like, actually set it on fire? And AJ's like, yeah, we have to prove to them that we burn it. And so I made the decision back then, like, end of 2023, going into 2024, I'm just going to put a hold on this because I don't want to commit to making more collections if I lose and then I'm gonna have to burn it all. And so that's what we've been doing ever since then. 2023, we haven't made any new swim collections. And I've said to our community, like, StaplesWim's just on hold for now and we, we hope to bring it back, but let me just deal with this thing first. And so we've just been going back and forth. You know what it's like, why do these things take so long? Can't we just all come to a decision?
- [46:01]
Nathan Chan
Yeah. So I've had a few. I've had my first ones in the first four started Founder. It wasn't called Founder, it was called Key to Success and was sued by Success magazine and they owned the word success and they trademarked it when trademark law was introduced.
- [46:19]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah. Wow. So, yeah, these other companies had staple since 2009 and they're. They're doing it to a heap of other brands as well. So we're not the only one with the word staple that's going through this. I don't know if they got new owners or whatever and they're just going through and doing a big clean out. Who knows?
- [46:36]
Nathan Chan
Yeah.
- [46:37]
Brittany Saunders
But yeah, we've been dealing with that and hopefully we're going to be able to make a comeback because I'm ready to do a comeback collection. But, yeah, that's how Staples started, because we did that Fate Swim collection. Looking back now, we should have just kept coming out with like, Fate Swim, but I don't know, just me going, yeah, let's do another brand. And then the tights came after that because we saw just the rise of activewear becoming so popular in Australia and they were their separate brands. But then eventually we got rid of their two websites and now it's all on the one website. So it's like all a part of fate, but they're still their own. Like sub brands.
- [47:11]
Nathan Chan
Yep. Okay. So that's where form comes from as well.
- [47:14]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah. Okay. So now it's all within fate.
- [47:16]
Nathan Chan
Yep.
- [47:17]
Brittany Saunders
And all on the one website. And that's. Yeah, that's the story of how they came to be was because we did that swim collection and it just went absolutely bonkers.
- [47:25]
Nathan Chan
Yep. Okay. And then Outdo Collective and outdo Espresso.
- [47:29]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah. So because we're from Newcastle, there's. I mean, new is up and coming now, but, you know, a few years back, there was nowhere for us to shoot content.
- [47:40]
Nathan Chan
Yep.
- [47:40]
Brittany Saunders
Like, no photo studios or anything like that. And we were often traveling down to Sydney to just shoot with models. And it's like two, two and a half hour drive for us to get to Sydney and two and a half hours to get back. So it's like five hours. Five hours of driving and then you've got to do a big shoot day as well. So I, again, me just being me and wanting to give anything a go, I said to aj, why don't we build our own content studio? And he said, okay, he just has to go smart. And so this was three years ago now.
- [48:11]
Nathan Chan
Yeah. Okay.
- [48:12]
Brittany Saunders
Now there's content studios everywhere because it's become a big thing. But there was none in Newcastle at the time. So I found an empty commercial space, like a long strip. And so we went in there. I'm like, this is perfect. Great natural light. It was a cold shell, so it was just a gray concrete room.
- [48:32]
Nathan Chan
Yep.
- [48:33]
Brittany Saunders
And I'm like, let's build a content studio in here. We can use it whenever we want, but then we can also hire it out to other people that want to use it. And then the commercial space was so long, and I have, like a big hospitality background from back in the day. I was like, why don't we just throw a coffee shop at the end? Again, just another one of those, like, little ideas that I had that's just so crazy. But it's just the way that my brain is. And so we. We opened the coffee shop as well. So we. We built them. I documented the whole thing on Instagram three years ago, and we opened both businesses at the same time, hired a team, went and did coffee training. I knew how to do it. AJ did some training. He taught himself how to do it all. And we got in there and we were working in there every morning when we opened, and it just went bonkers. Like, people absolutely loved it. And even still now, three years on, like, they're getting smashed every weekend. And we had the content studio for about a year and a half, renting it out to other people. Even had like small functions in there. A lot of professional headshots, corporate headshots, little micro weddings. Because it was just like this beautiful blank white space that you could just transform with styling. But as we, as time went on with that, we started to have to bring in more rules. More rules. Don't touch the curtains, don't bring red wine in, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it just got to the point where I'm like, this isn't even worth it because it's so much admin to hire it out for, you know, 150 bucks an hour because no one else was doing it in Newey. And I didn't want to be too expensive because it's Newcastle.
- [50:08]
Nathan Chan
Yep.
- [50:08]
Brittany Saunders
Even though it was this state of the art fit out. And so the bookings become less and less and less and less and less because we're like, no more parties, no more hands, blah, blah, blah. It's just headshots and photography. And so after about a year and a half of taking bookings in there, we stopped it completely and then it was just our studio. And then I had the grand idea of why don't we move our fate Newcastle store, which was at another location, into the content space.
- [50:36]
Nathan Chan
Yeah.
- [50:37]
Brittany Saunders
So we made the move and that was last year.
- [50:39]
Nathan Chan
Yeah.
- [50:40]
Brittany Saunders
So now our Newcastle boutique is next door to our coffee shop and they complement each other so well.
- [50:46]
Nathan Chan
Yep.
- [50:48]
Brittany Saunders
All because I opened the content studio.
- [50:51]
Nathan Chan
Making a lot of moves.
- [50:52]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah.
- [50:52]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, I love it. So, all right, so you've got five stores right now in all around Australia.
- [50:59]
Brittany Saunders
Queensland, Victoria and New South Wales, just on the east coast.
- [51:03]
Nathan Chan
Yeah. Plans for international?
- [51:06]
Brittany Saunders
No plans. We do have a lot of customers in New Zealand that say open over here.
- [51:11]
Nathan Chan
Yep.
- [51:12]
Brittany Saunders
How the do you open a store in another country? That's what I say. Do you want to do it for me? When people ask opening New Zealand, I'm like, you're going to manage it for me. You're going to go in when people call in sick, you're going to figure out the roster. No plans for global scaling. Every owner that I talk to says, you know, what's your plans to go global?
- [51:32]
Nathan Chan
Yep.
- [51:32]
Brittany Saunders
I'm like, I feel like I'm still just getting started in Australia, but no, no plans to open stores overseas yet. Like, never say never, but I'm really happy with where we're at now in 2025. This is the first time that I've Ever put the brakes on fate. Not to say that I've slowed it down, but this is the first moment in time in the last three years that we haven't been opening our next door.
- [51:57]
Nathan Chan
Yes.
- [51:58]
Brittany Saunders
And I think it's been really good for the company and for me because it's allowed me to kind of slow down and take a look at everything that we're doing and, you know, refine our processes, make sure that everything's running smoothly. Like we've done a massive overhaul of the way that we do all of our operations, our, our retail stock, just everything. It's allowed all of us to kind of make sure everything's running smoothly at the end of the day before we go growing more and more and more because it's very easy to get caught up in that. Let's keep this momentum going and we absolutely could. But yeah, I've put a pause on like continuing to roll out more stores for now. And I think it's been one of the best things ever because I've felt like I can breathe that, that we don't have another store opening. Because it takes over your whole life when you're opening a new store, especially when you're doing the whole fit out. And I'm, I'm so hands on with every single store opening. I'm the one dealing with the agents, the leasing agents, the architects, the builders. My phone's ringing all day, every day, so and so not on site. So it's a lot. And it just takes over our life and it's super fun and exciting. But yeah, for now, in 2025, so far, we've just been focusing on the foundations of the company and I think it's really important for businesses to do that every now and then rather than always focusing on growing. I think it's really important to also focus on like nurturing where you're at. And like where I'm at now. I never could have imagined in a million years when this all started in the shed that we'd be at where I am now. And I think in 2025 again, like how there's so many successful crazy businesses out there and you're living in a world of comparing yourself to all these other businesses. It's just important to stop and look at actually how far you've come and what you're doing now and just be like, you know what? I'm happy with where this is at rather than always thinking of the next next thing. So that's what I've been doing this.
- [53:53]
Nathan Chan
Year and where did that come from this shift?
- [54:00]
Brittany Saunders
Just how hard it all is, especially when it comes to opening a new store. Like, there's so much work and so many moving parts and our community always say open in Perth, open in Adelaide. And I just think, like, do people not see, like, how big of a commitment that is? And yeah, we just did. We did four stores back to back after because our Newcastle one we just had since 2019 was just our new store. Like, it was just easy, you know, it's around the corner from us. And then we did the other four back to back and like, it's great. And I loved opening them all back to back. But it's just a lot, like, it's a lot on our team. It's. Yeah, it's a lot on every department of our business. And then we had to, you know, move warehouse last year because we opened all these other stores and we need more room for stocks. Then we had a massive warehouse move last year, which was a monster of a job. And I never want to move warehouses again. But now we've full, like, filled up our current warehouse already, like not even a year into the five year lease that we signed. So AJ's been at another warehouse this morning, but it's only across the road, so we're just going to like, have two.
- [55:16]
Nathan Chan
That's cool.
- [55:18]
Brittany Saunders
But yeah, we just had like so many years of extreme growth. And you know, when you're opening more stores, then your warehouse team needs to grow and your head office team needs to grow to be able to facilitate these stores. And so I just think we opened our Power Matter store in November last year and that was just the end of the year. And like, we ticked that one off and it was all up and running. And then we went into Christmas. This Christmas just gone. Well, it's nearly six months ago now, which is crazy. That was the first Christmas that AJ and I have ever had off work since starting Fate. And so we had two weeks off and like, we didn't go and pack orders, which is crazy. That we did our Boxing Day sale online early so that our warehouse team could pack the orders and then go on their holiday as well. And so AJ took our. AJ and I took our first ever break and it was just so nice. And I think it was that that made me realize I don't always have to be thinking of the next big thing. We can just slow down and kind of enjoy where we're at. We're still growing despite the fact that we're not like making any massive moves. Like Opening more stores like the, the businesses continue to grow in those five months, which is crazy. But yeah, I think it was just like the end of a crazy 2024 that made me go, let's just stop for a second and I'm going to stop looking atcommercial real estate.com because I don't want to get any other ideas. Let's just enjoy this for now and you know, in a few more months time like I've done the book and everything else so I've been super busy regardless. But it's allowed me to focus on, you know, more of my personal brand. I've been able to start doing more business style videos which I'm finding I'm really passionate about. And it's just allowed us to focus on ensuring our team that has been with us for so many years are all still good despite the crazy last four years that we've had because all of their jobs have evolved completely like April and Grace that are here today. Grace started as a casual in our Newcastle store. Now she's a national retail manager of our five stores. So I've got all these staff that have been with me through the last crazy four years. So now we've just like stopped and like we're still busier than ever. But yeah, it's just been a nice slow down kind of across the table.
- [57:39]
Nathan Chan
No, look, I respect that. I just not, not many founders I hear say, hey, we're going to pause and take stock. It's usually just go, go, go, go, go. And they were stopped to think, think, yeah, yeah.
- [57:51]
Brittany Saunders
I think it was AJ and I having two weeks off at Christmas that made me think I'm not going to look into opening any more stores for now.
- [57:57]
Nathan Chan
Yep.
- [57:57]
Brittany Saunders
Mind you, sometimes I go on commercialrealestate.com and I just see what's around in Adelaide or you know, Tasmania. Our customers ask us to open, we get asked to open stores everywhere. But it's just been good to just slow down and make sure that everything that we're doing now is just running how it's supposed to be. Who knows, in two weeks I could start the next store like, but you never know. And I'm, I operate very randomly like that. All right girls, come on. We're doing another store, we're going to Adelaide and they're like, alrighty, we go again. But yeah, for now we're just cruising but still scaling and focusing a lot on online and our five stores that we have for now. I've always said that I don't want fate to Grow too big, that it's out of my control. I think I'm one of the most hands on CEOs that there is. I feel like when people think of CEO, they think of someone that goes around to the business, stores and whatever once a year and you don't know anyone's name or whatever. But I've got my fingers in every corner of the business from what warehouse staff member has said something about someone else and they're upset with it all the way through to what's happening in our Melbourne store and everything in between. And I like it that way. And yeah, like you just hear of these owners scaling so big and exiting at 200 million and whatever, but I don't know, I think it just goes back to me just being Britney from Newey and I'm just happy to be amongst it all. And like I love it still. And I've had so many founders say to me, get out now before you hate it.
- [59:37]
Nathan Chan
You're not bitter and twisted.
- [59:39]
Brittany Saunders
No. And people like get out now. Like just get out now before you despise going to work every day. But I absolutely love what we do. I love going to work every day, love working with my team, love being in the warehouse. Like, I just love it. So that's where we're at for now.
- [59:55]
Nathan Chan
You mentioned around being hands on. I love personally that you run your own ads and you're, you're in, you're in it, you know how to grow social media accounts. Like you're still, like I said, very, very hands on. Why, why is that? And do you think that that's important for founders?
- [60:15]
Brittany Saunders
I mean, it's different for everyone, I think, I think it all comes down to your circumstances and what's going to work best for you and what's best for the business. But I just love all of that stuff. Like one of our team members is moving overseas and she's our E commerce coordinator. And so we've just had to put up a new ad yesterday and I, I am looking at the ad and we're posting about it on socials. I'm like, that's my dream job. Like if I could play around with Shopify and EDMS all day, like I, I would love to do that. So I think it's just, I love doing all the things, I love being in the Meta business suite and ads manager. Like, I just genuinely love doing the tasks. You want me to upload some stories, I'll save them from Canva and post them. Like, I just love doing stuff like that. So I think that's why. Yeah, I really enjoy it. Like us putting up that ad yesterday for our ecom coordinator. If I didn't do what I do for a job, I would love to do that job, you know, because that's just a dream. I love like shuffling collections on the website and uploading new banners and making it look all pretty and optimizing the website so that it's going to get the most amount of conversions. I love making the ads. I love checking the ads every two seconds on my phone to see how they're going. I love pushing the budgets up to see if I can make a bit more. So I think that's why I'm still so involved with every inch of the business, because I just love it.
- [61:40]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, no, look, I can resonate with that. So the unfortunate thing is though, is as your business grows, you get further and further away from that over time because you have more people and you really have to make this transition from founder to CEO.
- [61:58]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah.
- [61:59]
Nathan Chan
And how has that been, that transition?
- [62:01]
Brittany Saunders
It was hard like a few years ago because I was so hands on. Even still, like maybe three years ago where I was designing our EDMs, I was shuffling the website, I was doing the E Com photography because we still, we do everything in house at Fate. There's nothing that gets done externally. Like we do all of our E Comm shoots, all of our shoots, everything is done internally. All of our PR influencer marketing, it's all in house. And so I do remember a few years back when Fate was like getting a lot of traction, having to hire new people and teach them the things that I loved doing and letting go to be like, okay, you can design the idioms from now on. And I remember being like, but I love doing that. You know, like you don't want to give it up. And especially when you started something yourself from scratch, where you've done everything. Like I remember even giving up customer service emails a few years back and being like, okay, like giving that task away and trusting someone. But I recognized back then and continue to recognize over the years that like, that's what you need to do if you want the business to grow. You have to step back and focus on the key things that you really want to do or that's going to benefit the business the most. But let other people do those smaller tasks because otherwise you just get bunked down in the day to day and then you won't be able to focus on scaling. So I've definitely done a lot of that over the years and Even though I'm still so hands on now, you know, I'm not replying to customer service emails, I'm not packing orders, I'm not doing returns, I'm not doing anything on the website, even though I absolutely love it because I know that someone else is better off being paid to do that so that I can focus on making our next video go viral or building my personal brand. Because I know that when I build my personal brand in turn it supports fate. So that's really what my focus is now. But I'm still the kind of boss where if is hitting the fan, give me a call and I'm there.
- [63:51]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, I respect that. That's where it should be.
- [63:53]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah, yeah.
- [63:54]
Nathan Chan
So you guys obviously have driven a lot of growth of the brand through you, your story, through your organic channels. And then, you know, you're in, you're in, you're in the, the back end of Facebook. Do you guys spend much on ads?
- [64:10]
Brittany Saunders
I think at the moment I'm spending about 150 grand a month.
- [64:14]
Nathan Chan
Yeah.
- [64:14]
Brittany Saunders
On ads. And I think I can spend more. I think I'm playing it safe.
- [64:18]
Nathan Chan
What do you mean think?
- [64:20]
Brittany Saunders
Because I think I can go bigger, but I'm just testing and like growing the budgets a little bit more and a little bit more. And our roas is really good.
- [64:27]
Nathan Chan
What's really good?
- [64:29]
Brittany Saunders
Like, I mean, you can't really ever judge it on a drop night, but like on a drop night It'll be like 20.
- [64:37]
Nathan Chan
Oh, wow.
- [64:37]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah. And I like my friend. Do you know Anita from Hero Packaging?
- [64:42]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, we've interviewed her.
- [64:43]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah, she's, she was the one that taught me how to do ads.
- [64:47]
Nathan Chan
Okay.
- [64:47]
Brittany Saunders
Because I had an agency doing them for us for ages and I never understood anything they were saying to me. And I was paying them a heap of money and they, I'd get these big fancy reports every month and I'd be like, what does all this mean? You know, I feel like they were almost confusing me and I don't know if it was on purpose, but I remember just going, I don't like this. Like, I don't like that. I don't know what they're doing and I'm paying all this money and I think it's getting results, but it was also technical that I didn't understand and I, I dropped the agency and I said, I want to figure this out myself. And I think one of my biggest strengths is I'm a really fast learner. You show me how to do anything once, I remember it forever. And So I said to Anita, anita, I want to have a call with you because I saw her doing all her videos about her ads and I'd logged into our ad account so many times when I had agencies doing it and I'd be trying to figure it out, but you know when you're looking at an ad manager and you don't know what you're looking at, it looks like it's in another language. And so I said, anita, I need half an hour of your time. She said, all right. So we did a call and we screen shared and she just walked me through it like. And then I said, okay, leave it with me. I've been doing it by myself ever since. I don't even remember what your question was. Oh, the ads like talking about.
- [66:01]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, that's impressive. You need to drops every week, sometimes.
- [66:05]
Brittany Saunders
Every second week or sometimes every third.
- [66:07]
Nathan Chan
Okay.
- [66:09]
Brittany Saunders
But on like a non drop day because obviously with the seven day attribution, whatever it is, like it's going to look like the results are amazing on a drop day because those people have been on the website within the last seven days. But otherwise, like on a regular day, our roas is still sitting at like 8 or 9, which I think is pretty good for retail.
- [66:27]
Nathan Chan
Yeah. Look, I don't know your numbers or your margins, but that's pretty, that's pretty high.
- [66:31]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah.
- [66:32]
Nathan Chan
That's awesome.
- [66:33]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah. So. And I just love it.
- [66:34]
Nathan Chan
Like I love potentially double the business by just doubling your spend.
- [66:38]
Brittany Saunders
Exactly. So that's what I'm doing at the moment. I'm pushing the budgets higher and just seeing what I can do with it. And I just love that stuff. And I think our roas is so high and our ads perform so well because our content is so, so strong.
- [66:50]
Nathan Chan
Yes. 100. It's a game of creative.
- [66:52]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah.
- [66:53]
Nathan Chan
Our creatives are strong and you have this incredible community.
- [66:57]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah. People know us and so people.
- [66:59]
Nathan Chan
Yeah. So it's not. Yeah, it's not. Yeah.
- [67:01]
Brittany Saunders
It's not just like that. The ads are good. It's everything. It's the organic. People know us. Yeah. So it's that whole recipe that then we get the best results in meta. Yeah. And I've been trying tick tock ads too lately and they're all right as well.
- [67:16]
Nathan Chan
Yeah.
- [67:17]
Brittany Saunders
But I'm just setting up random campaigns and seeing what they do. But yeah, I love it. I love, I love ads.
- [67:24]
Nathan Chan
We have to work towards wrapping up. I could talk to you all day stuff. Brittany.
- [67:27]
Brittany Saunders
I know how long we've been talking.
- [67:28]
Nathan Chan
For about an hour, maybe more.
- [67:31]
Brittany Saunders
How long are the episodes normally? However long they end up being.
- [67:35]
Nathan Chan
Depends. Depends. Yeah. So look, you did something really clever, and you're really good at marketing. Like, as an example, a lot of brands work with, you know, fancy influences. They do the trips. You just got your top customers and did a trip with your top customers.
- [67:54]
Brittany Saunders
Well, actually, it wasn't our top customers. It was random customers.
- [67:57]
Nathan Chan
Okay, there you go. Where'd you come? Where do you. How do you. For anyone like that is looking to grow their brand. Where do you get these kinds of ideas from?
- [68:04]
Brittany Saunders
In the shower at night. In the shower at night. I get out and I say, aj and he goes, what?
- [68:13]
Nathan Chan
It's really clever.
- [68:15]
Brittany Saunders
Obviously, I have a lot of experience from being an influencer back in the day, and I was fortunate enough to go on a heap of those extravagant brand trips back in. In my prime, I think my primes now, if I'm being honest. But, you know, back when I had those million subscribers, you know, I got to go to Coachella, I went to Spain, I went to Hayman island with all those makeup brands, and I got to experience, you know, once in a lifetime trips. And that was before fate was ever a thing. And I remember being so fascinated by the brand part of those trips that I would go on. And instead of mingling with all the other influences that I was in Spain with to celebrate the nars new mascara, I would go to the girls that were working at the brand and ask them questions, because I was just so fascinated to think of the budget that the brands would have for this kind of thing. Mental, mental. And they would fly people globally, and they'll fly us business class. And I'm there going, this is 10 grand alone for this ticket. And there's 50 of us going on this trip. And I'd be there, like, in my head figuring all this out. And look at the bedroom, and they've decked it out with all this stuff. And so I got to experience so many cool trips in my influencer days. And I guess I always had the dream of being able to do that myself one day with my own brand. And so we decided to do our first ever brand trip last year. But I said, let's not do influencers. Let's do customers instead, which is so us, because I feel as if, though everything that we do is so different to all the other brands. I'm not trying to be like everyone else. I always want to have a point of difference. And so it was our seventh birthday, so we decided to call it the lucky seven and we just put it out organically on socials. I didn't run any ads for it, so. And people had to place an order and use the Lucky 7 discount code to enter. So we got orders out of it as well. And then we went through and randomly picked seven people from those orders and they were from all around Australia. It was for Australia only. We had people saying, do New Zealand. And I'm like, oh, goodness, we'll start small. And then when it came to us deciding, like, how the event was going to look and what was the trip going to be like, we were thinking, do we take them overseas? Do we take them to Queensland? Like, where do we take these influences? And I said, let's just, let's take them to Newcastle where we're from, just, just to start. And it was like the safest option for us too. So we, you know, treated them like influencers, put them in a five star hotel, decked out their rooms like influences. And we just treated them as if, though, yeah, they were influencers on a brand trip. And because it was our seventh birthday, we then also hired out this really cool venue in Newcastle and we threw a party on the second night of their trip and then we sold 250 tickets to customers to come along to this big, grand event. So it was just so much fun. You know, we treated them to getting their hair and makeup done at my friend's salon. You know, we went out for fancy dinners and lunches and just like wined and dined them and then had a big party with 250 customers. And my friend helped me emcee the nine. We did massive giveaways and prizes. Everyone got a goodie bag, so we had to do 250 goodie bags. Got all other brands on board to like gift stuff. And then we hadn't launched Glazy, our lip oils yet, so everyone there got a Glazy lip oil before anyone else and we got them to do this big unboxing all together in the room just like erupted because everyone knew that Glazy was coming out really soon. And yeah, it was just, just amazing. And I'm just so glad that we did it. And our community loved it because the amount of content that we got out of that was amazing and people just loved it. So now we're like, holy, our eighth birthday is coming. What are we gonna do for that topic? And so, yeah, I think the coolest thing to come out of us doing the lucky seven is the friendships between those seven girls. They're all still friends and they. They all still catch up and have a group chat, and they're always, like, messaging us, saying we're all catching up, you know, or, like, doing a zoom call together, because it's just priceless friendships in the community.
- [72:24]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, that's true. Community building. Yeah, that's awesome. So you wrote a book. We haven't really talked about it. What compelled you to write the book? And I. Yeah, yeah.
- [72:34]
Brittany Saunders
So AJ has actually said to me for years, you should write a book. And I always said, no, no, no, no. Like, I. What would I write about? He's like, you've done so much. And so it was this thing that AJ had always told me to do, and I. About two. Over two years ago now, I got an email from Booktopia, and they said, do you want to write a book? And I was like, you know what? Yes, I do. And so that started. Yeah, just over two years ago, I had no idea how to write a book. The same way I haven't had any idea to do anything that I've done. And I remember I had to first few, like, calls with the team, and then I thought, oh, maybe I'll go down to Sydney and they'll, like, interview me in person, and, like, they'll write notes about me, and then they'll help me. And I remember we had our first few calls with the Booktopia team, and they were like, all right, Brit, well, we'll wait for the first draft. And I remember going, what, so you just want me to write the whole thing? And, like, yeah, like, okay. And then I'm shitting myself. I remember the night I was laying in bed next to AJ and I just opened a Google Doc and I just started typing. Yeah, well, I didn't just start typing. I said to aj, what should I write as a first sentence? Like, that's the hardest part. Getting started. Just like, with the business and pun intended. The book is called Just Getting Started as well. And I remember joking to him and saying, how about I write, like, once upon a time?
- [73:57]
Nathan Chan
Yeah.
- [73:58]
Brittany Saunders
Because that's how, like, you know, fairy tales begin. And so I wrote that as a joke. And then I'm like, no, no, no. And I put a line through it. It's still in the book. That's. The first sentence of the book is once upon a time. And it just was. Yeah. Something that I would write at night, laying in bed, chapter by chapter. And it took me two years and a lot of pressure from the Booktopia team to hurry up, but it never felt finished. And I kept Going back and back and back and there's so many bonus chapters at the end of the book. But it's just my story. It's kind of what we've spoken about today from the very beginning and how I've gotten to where I am. So it's a. It's a memoir combined with a business book and a personal diary. And yeah, it's out now.
- [74:43]
Nathan Chan
Awesome.
- [74:44]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah.
- [74:45]
Nathan Chan
Well, look, we have to work towards wrapping up Brittany, as I said.
- [74:49]
Brittany Saunders
Sorry, you've got so many more notes that you've written down.
- [74:52]
Nathan Chan
No, no, no, no, no. Look, this has been fantastic. You've been so open. Honestly, just, your stories are awesome. I love it. So, look, anyone that's listening to this, they want to start an E commerce business. I want to grow an E commerce business. For anyone in particular, what would you say? Like, what advice would you be if you could go back to 21 year old Brittany to start fate again? What would you say? What. How would you go about it? What would you do? What would you share with people? Like what? Like how. What does it truly take?
- [75:27]
Brittany Saunders
Just guts. I think it just takes guts. And I've got a new saying that I love and I've been doing some keynote speeches lately and I've been using it as one of, like my power slides and it's. Do it scared.
- [75:38]
Nathan Chan
Do it scared.
- [75:39]
Brittany Saunders
Yeah. A lot of people hold themselves back because they're scared. What will people say? What will my family think? What will the girls that I went to school with think? Who gives a do it scared anyway? People use being scared as the reason to not do something. If it's starting a business. They don't do it because they're scared. But just because you're scared doesn't mean that you can't do it. Just do it with the scared feeling. Anyway, if you're scared to talk to your boss, if you're scared to ask for a pay rise, if you're scared to create your first piece of content for TikTok, still do it scared. Like, just because you're scared doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it. So that would be my advice to everyone.
- [76:20]
Nathan Chan
Awesome. Well, look, Brittany, thank you so much for taking the time. Thank you for coming down to Melbourne. This has been a fantastic interview. I got a feeling we might want to do a round two.
- [76:28]
Brittany Saunders
Absolutely. Just let me know. Wouldn't that be funny? I'll come back in a year or two and tell you what we've done. Oh, amazing. Well, thanks for having me.
- [76:38]
Nathan Chan
If you love this episode. Make sure to check out my interview with Emma Greed on how to solving a problem she was so passionate about led to the creation of Skims and Good American.
- [76:48]
Brittany Saunders
And so I do think it's so much of it starts with like, addressing things that bother you that you find, you know, you've got to create a solution for because, you know, at the end of the day, you've got to be passionate enough and sometimes crazy enough to go round and round and round to actually solve a problem.