← The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan
The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan
575: Ty Haney on Being Ousted From Her Own Company: The Lesson's Learnt & How to Bounce Back
00:51:28
In this episode, Ty Haney, founder of Outdoor Voices, shares how she turned her public downfall into the blueprint for an even bigger comeback—building multiple new brands and redefining how community drives growth.
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- [00:02]
Nathan Chan
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- [01:21]
Ty Haney
Hear the stories, learn the proven methods, and accelerate your growth and future through entrepreneurship. Welcome to the Founder podcast with Nathan Ch.
- [01:35]
Nathan Chan
You built one of the most recognizable direct to consumer brands in the past decade with Outdoor Voices. You know, turning over sub $100 million a year. And then you live through what many would call a fall from grace. So when you look back at that time, what do you think the world got wrong with your story?
- [01:59]
Ty Haney
Interesting. Well, I look back at that time with 90% of my experience with OV as something exceptionally awesome and I was lucky to have. I started outdoor voices at 23. I started out after voices at 23 out of new York City, having been a kid that grew up in Boulder, Colorado, like very immersed in nature and really kind of recognized a pain point. When I got to New York City, was going to school and no longer had team and coaches and practice in mountains to keep me active. And so really, Outdoor Voices was born from the environment I grew up in, in my personal DNA and just this recognition that, you know, on a personal level, I needed inspiration to move every day. And so I look back at Outdoor Voices and I'm very proud of what we were able to build and the movement and ultimately the team but quite literally our mission at Outdoor Voices was to get the world moving. And I think in a lot of ways, a lot of people were touched and kind of part of that movement. In an exciting way, I think what the world has gotten wrong, how would I answer that? I feel as equipped and excited about being a founder kind of in the business building and consumer kind of world as ever. And so people probably haven't heard from me for a number of years and potentially are like, ooh, that was like a rough story. But I think ultimately I pretty quickly got back on the horse and I'm someone who very much loves tapping into a vision and building from zero. And so it's cool to not have that type of scenario rock me in the way that probably some would expect. And so that's been something just personally, I've been excited to kind of step back into and show that as a female founder, challenges are normal. I had a particularly painful and public kind of downfall, but I'm excited to show back up and show that it wasn't just a lucky chance that we were able to or I was able to build a company that successfully kind of my first go. And so, yeah, I think normalizing challenges is something that I've recognized is just par for the course as a founder and me showing back up kind of with my second and third companies very much to me is an exciting way to kind of show a comeback story that I think maybe people didn't expect from that first kind of chapter of business building.
- [04:55]
Nathan Chan
So you started Outdoor Voices 2012, raised a ton of money, company grew super fast, cult following, incredible community. And like many founders, you, I guess what happens is you have the title CEO, but you're not really the CEO, and, and, and you don't really know, especially as a first time founder, what is required to be a CEO. And so oftentimes, whether it's from investors or other team members that join the company, you, you, you go, okay, well, let's bring in some senior leadership, some proper executive support that, you know, have experience with, with people that do this all the time, that scale companies. So, you know, we don't have to go into the details or we can perhaps, but you know, you eventually left the company through, through, you know, bringing on strong, you know, strong pedigree leadership. Do you want to talk about that? Because I think that is a, that is a common arc where especially first time founders, you are the CEO, but you don't really probably maybe enjoy that as the business scales that it's a, it's a totally different transition right from going actually from founder to CEO.
- [06:20]
Ty Haney
Yeah, I think there's a lot to kind of unpack there. But I started outdoor voices at 23, was in a fortunate position like early in institution and with a big, bold, ambitious vision that we were able to attract a lot of capital. That said, this was my first time doing it. I was exceptionally good at stating this vision, the product, cultivating and attracting a very creative team and then bringing people around the table to fund it. What was really difficult and experience matters. I actually remember kind of an investor early on being like I only invest in second time founders and to a degree that tracks, that's a de risked way maybe to invest. But I was 23 years old. No one didn't know that going into it. The number one thing I've done differently in my new companies is make sure that we have that leadership team intact. And so it was interesting because we had a pretty strong board or like a. A board that certainly had a perspective on a lot of things. And so what we ended up doing was engaging these super expensive recruiters and then almost hiring by consensus. And so I was the CEO, but I was essentially managing this board to figure out the perfect unicorn for all of these positions across the leadership team at Outdoor Voices, which ultimately meant there were large vacancies or key roles that were vacant for way too many months or years at a time when my second time around, the number one thing I prioritized was getting leaders, that leadership team, my direct five or six reports like in place, out of the gates. So that was something that I just looking back, I wouldn't have known had I not gone through that. And a little kind of example there is the first kind of senior role that I hired at toib. My new company is our coo and she's like super experienced both in the consumer and gaming kind of tech software space and has many reps and tons of experience, knows how to manage people, knows how to hire people. And I wish I had recognized how important that was sooner and had a board that potentially helped me place those leaders in those roles sooner. Because we certainly felt the effects of not having an intact leadership team out of the gates at Outdoor Voices.
- [09:04]
Nathan Chan
And you were essentially ousted in many ways. You resigned, but you essentially ousted from the company that you started. Talk me through like what was going through that time.
- [09:17]
Ty Haney
Yeah, back to kind of your initial question. I think a lot of how the press positioned that Austin wasn't really, you know, fact based, which is fine. Like that's what Press does. But we had, we had brought on a chairman of the board, actually one of our lead investors, General Catalyst, and David Fiacca, who I'm very fond of, he really was a software guy, so didn't have experience in apparel and had worked with Mickey. And so he brought Mickey on as our chairman of the board and I was like so open to that. And obviously he's a retail and merchandising legend. And initially it worked. As we started to get probably a year and a half in, we started to have kind of divergent views on how to build the business. And we had this community led kind of activate irl, amplify through digital and social growth model that really was effective for us where in a lot of ways Mickey was pulling us more kind of to the traditional big box, flagship, expensive retail kind of growth strategy. And ultimately we did not see eye to eye. And so that created a pretty difficult dynamic with the team where there were almost kind of like co CEOs and then an even more difficult dynamic at the board level. And something I learned the hard way for sure is as a CEO, your number one job is to of course raise money or keep the company funded. But number two is relationships with the board. And that's a hard thing to do when you're in the weeds operating. And just like particularly at the pace that we were growing, your head's down. You're just like trying to whack a mole all of the challenges away when really you need to lift up and nurture relationships at the board level. And so I certainly found that out the hard way. And so what that ended up doing was Mickey was quite a sophisticated politician, I would say. And so he had spent time essentially at the board nurturing those relationships. And so when push came to Shub 1, I had raised significant capital. So when you looked at the cap table, my ownership meant I was diluted significantly. And just from a cap table and company structure standpoint no longer had control. And then two, from more of a political and board relationship standpoint, I didn't have the influence that I should have worked to essentially have intact. And that ultimately led to a number of things where an article came out that kind of had been co authored by Mickey. And that night I literally like looked at Google and looked up how to resign because I had never resigned from a company before. I didn't know what the formality was. And so I kind of have, I have this in my phone as just kind of a souvenir of the moment, painful as it was, saying I Hereby tender my resignation. Doing things tie. And so essentially, the situation had become untenable. And I could see this. I also had commitment from the board members at Outdoor Voices to help kind of move Mickey out. It didn't happen soon enough. And so unfortunately, I became kind of the casualty. But all that to say, like, yeah, it was a painful but exceptionally helpful and kind of masterclass experience in sharpening kind of my ability as a businesswoman.
- [13:03]
Nathan Chan
And I know that it would be so painful watching a brand and a company that you put your life, your blood, your sweat, your tears into and then watch it being morphed into something that is perhaps not your vision. And, you know, I've even seen you post comments right on. On certain content from Outdoor Voices. What compelled you to do that?
- [13:32]
Ty Haney
Oh, I mean, I've had two kids, so I can kind of make this comparison, but obviously starting a company from scratch and then growing it over eight years, like, it's your obsession. You're all the way in. It's all I thought about for eight years straight. It's like a baby. And so you never imagine, like, having to leave or neglect that. That baby that, you know, you had birthed, et cetera. And so in a lot of ways, it felt like that. After that first resignation, I actually was asked to come back. And so I did re. Engage about seven days later. And, you know, in hindsight, should I have done that? I don't know. But that is kind of just to point out, like, when. When you've built something and committed your life and gone all in in that way, like, it's hard. It's hard to. To leave and distance yourself. And like, from an identity standpoint, it's like, who am I? I pretty quickly found out that my role within the company was no longer going to be something that I wanted to commit to. And so I was kind of put in this box and ended up leaving again. But it took me a number of months and I think, understandably, to reconcile how had this happened. I had been and thought of myself as just so committed to the cause and we had had such an amazing dynamic and culture and team and fast paced growth trajectory, really scaling this mission to get the world moving. And so it took many months to kind of unpack that or figure out how to be okay with that and with myself. And so I remember, like, shortly after my leaving, I just was still so emotionally connected to kind of how OV presented itself because it was the only thing I knew. And so, yeah, I remember, like, commenting just like, the Fabric's backwards. And I mean, there's many examples of when kind of the founder is ripped out of the equation, like a lot of the spirit, the soul, and ultimately in a lot of ways, the engine turns off for a lot of these consumer brands, which I think happens too frequently, but certainly happened in this case.
- [15:46]
Nathan Chan
Do you regret, like, writing those comments publicly and people say no?
- [15:51]
Ty Haney
No, I. I think. I think, like, one thing I'm excited about with more of the, like, state of today, just from a general consumer and even kind of media standpoint is I feel like during that period of time, like, everyone was overly sensitive and over, you know, like a comment by me on the company that I founded became like this massive and inflamed story. So, no, I mean, I think given the background, like, it was something that I was obsessed with and spent every hour thinking about. And so to see it, like, in going kind of the wrong direction was certainly painful. It did take me a number of years to like, not no longer feel attached or connected to that.
- [16:40]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, look, I can only imagine, right? It would be just like, so tough. And then even to see. See the brand out there, like, it just must be so weird. Like, you probably walked. You know, I know you guys don't have the over retail stores anymore, but, like, even walking past retail stores and you know you're based in the States, Right. That would be such a weird feeling.
- [17:00]
Ty Haney
I feel very proud for, like, what we were able to accomplish. So I see exercise dresses all over still and doing things hats which are quite vintage by now. I mean, I'm a deeply optimistic person and in a lot of ways, it's like childbirth. Like your body forgets kind of the trauma. But I mostly can tie a bow on those eight years in kind of the aftermath, and very much am grateful to that experience. It again, has made me such a sharper businesswoman and leader and I'm. I'm really appreciative of that experience.
- [17:39]
Nathan Chan
So I'd love. I'd be. It'd be foolish of me not to talk about how you built this brand. Right. And then I want to talk about, you know, everything you're doing with T Tyb. And then. And then also, you know, you started another consumer brand, Joggy. Right. So. And obviously you're taking a lot into that as well. But, you know, when you look at Outdoor Voices, incredible brand, incredible products, incredible movement, incredible community, what are you taking that you learned from building Outdoor Voices to joggy? And what can founders learn when. When it comes to building a really strong brand?
- [18:17]
Ty Haney
Yeah, 100%. I mean, like, product is the number one most critical piece here, like full stop. I think, like I'm friends with Elon Musk and I've been fortunate to kind of just see the way his mind works and he works with team and he doesn't believe in marketing whatsoever. He believes that excellent product and excellent technology will sell itself. And I have kind of adopted that mindset that said, once you have exceptional product, there's a really efficient and sticky way to bring it to life. And that's with community. And community has been a very buzzy, kind of fluffy term for a lot of people. And with my new venture, Tyb, one thing we've focused on is making community like a real measurable growth channel. Anyway, I think community can have massive impact on brands and I've spent a lot of time thinking about kind of what that means. And so the formula for community building to me is four part. It starts with a very clearly articulated mission, purpose or reason for being. So with Outdoor Voices it was get the world moving. It secondly requires rituals for activation, both IRL and digital. And in the Outdoor Voices version we called it activate IRL amplified through digital and social. But you would see run clubs, dog walking events, Pilates, yoga, like these rituals for activation, IRL that connected to that mission and purpose, that then would be amplified and help grow awareness. And so, you know, that can look different for various brands, but a consistent drumbeat of ways to engage around and in support of and activate that purpose or reason for being. I found this like a key part of this community building formula. The third is connection. And so there's obviously like your ability as a brand to like say and communicate with someone that becomes your superfan. But the moment that you give them a place to connect with other lovers or people who are obsessed with the brand, there's this massive flywheel of engagement and kind of enthusiasm that happens. And so that connection, sparking bonds and allowing people to find like minded people who also love the brand is crucial. And the fourth is an incentive or reward. And so, you know, for the last 10 years, like Instagram's played a key role kind of in this brand building world. But on the consumer side, like I'm only pressing like to kind of indicate my loyalty. So we've become really focused on kind of as part of this community building formula, how do you incentivize those kind of members or those loyalists for contributions and taking action? So community building, to me that's the simple formula and it's something that we found success with at Outdoor Voices didn't necessarily have a tool to like orchestrate this in an efficient way or measure it and now have done that in kind of my second chapter with Tyb which allows other brands to tap into that community as a growth channel that really worked for us and scale kind of the impact of that program. I call what we do community commerce. And so obviously Shopify is at the core in terms of the ability to sell something we wrap around with the community to activate and become the most engaged channel that then directly connects to increased frequency of purchase and higher ltv.
- [21:59]
Nathan Chan
And you've brought on some big brands using the product as well.
- [22:04]
Ty Haney
Yep.
- [22:05]
Nathan Chan
You've got Urban Outfitters, Glossier, Rare Beauty. But why software? Right? Like you would think you've built, you know, a nine figure ecom brand. Would you. Would you start another ecom brand? Right. And you did, but through Tyb, like yeah, why software? Because that's a very different beast in of itself.
- [22:26]
Ty Haney
Yeah. I've always been someone who is excited by ideas that solve for a personal pain point. And so even without our voices I wasn't like initially like thinking that I'd get into apparel. And in fact apparel is difficult. Ultimately I was very much passionate about the bigger mission and purpose to move people and the apparel and uniform for doing things became a vehicle for that. And then with Tyv, similarly as like a founder who had felt firsthand the impact of community. And I'll give you just a little bit of a story here. Traditionally D2C brands would spend 30 to 40% of their dollars raised on acquiring customers through Instagram or Facebook. As you click into a lot of those customers, they're expensive to acquire and they're one and done. So it's not really a recipe for longevity. And I think in a lot of ways we are starting to see that that direct to consumer playbook failed. And so meanwhile at Outdoor Voices we had this very engaged and kind of formalized ambassador program or community program. And as we were able to see when people interacted with this community program either IRL first or through covering upstream and product development type processes, they were four times more valuable as a customer over time. And so that said, I did not have a tool to essentially orchestrate all of this engagement and then make it measurable in the same way that an Instagram or now TikTok would be where if I put X amount of dollars in what's my return essentially on that investment. And so I again was really focused on solving for this pain point as a Brand and business builder and that's how Tyb was born. And so it's been interesting because we've been able to attract, we now have over 200 brands and top consumer brands on platform. And so it's certainly been a learning curve in terms of understanding how to hire technical talent. But I kind of joke I went from a software weare to software ware founder, but ultimately I know the pain point from doing it myself and have a really good sense for essentially what was missing when I was building outdoor voices. And that's how we've essentially been able to build or create a really exceptionally kind of effective toolkit with uib.
- [25:01]
Nathan Chan
You've also talked about, you know, at the end of the day it's building relationships at scale. And, and that's a really. I've, I've often thought about this like that's what business is, right? It's building relationships at scale. And the companies that win, the companies that continue to grow is, is, is, you know, you're like your community, community building formula, right? How do you build a deep relationship at scale?
- [25:25]
Ty Haney
100%.
- [25:27]
Nathan Chan
So I have to ask you about product, right? Because I think this is something that especially early stage founders or aspiring founders, they'll be watching an interview like this or they see, you know, stuff, the stuff that we all see on, on social media, we compare ourselves to those people and you go, okay, I want to start a business. I want to start an E comm brand, right? It's a hot thing, you know, Shopify, you know, Cha Ching, you know, waking up to sale, all these different things. And I think it's often something that is really overlooked by early stage and aspiring founders around the importance of product. Like it is without a shadow of a doubt at all the super successful founders that I, that I speak to, especially in the E comm space, right, they just spend a ridiculous amount of time that you wouldn't know on product, on speaking to customers, on surveys, on building a massive wait list because they've spent so much time, they've spoken to Thousands, oftentimes over 10,000, 100,000 people to get the product right. Talk me through, like, how do you build product when you come, when it comes to building an E comm brand?
- [26:40]
Ty Haney
Yeah, I mean we're saturated with a world of lookalikes. And so firstly, I think it's like again, back to this pain point and your ability to kind of uniquely create a moat around what you yourself know and somebody else might not. And so I'll use Joggy as an example Joggy is an organic energy brand that I started kind of for the fun of it again, for solving for a personal pain point. But I think that's probably my number one, my number one kind of reaction. There is like, I think people who do this best, like, it's in their DNA. Like, the recipe comes from like deep soul searching and like deep understanding of a personal pain point or need that's unaddressed in the market. It's not about, like, I see a white space here, I'm gonna go, like, try to fill that. And so Joggy's interesting because I was drinking Red Bull while running outdoor Voices obviously clicked into the ingredients and was like, this is not a recipe for longevity. Like, I like feeling up, I like feeling bright, I like feeling focused. But I don't want synthetic caffeine or fake sugar. And so I really tapped into a science, a science group based out of Austin to help me find the most premium, organic, buzzy, steady energy caffeine. And so one, it's like unique personal pain point or DNA that, that can have like a perspective that becomes your moat in a space and you, you have the essentially ability yourself to understand what that recipe for that product should be. Two, I think it's finding experts to then, to then like give you a sharp point to kind of within, within that recipe. And so on the joggy front, they helped me source this, this ingredient called Amity Max out of Peru. And it's not something that is widely used and it gives you this beautiful, like buzzy, steady energy. Is how I describe it, an unfair advantage. And then I went to essentially market and so I started, I started creating this product and then would get out there literally on university campuses and talk to people. And I think that third piece is like, get out there and get feedback. And I don't think enough people do that and like really want to and kind of seek out critique. A lot of how we ended up with this formula that's now in Target in Erewhon and really kind of like steadily, or more than steadily, quickly taking the energy drink world by storm is by being on university campus and understanding that women don't want a 12 ounce can of liquid before they work out. So that informed our 8 ounce smaller can. I'm obsessed with university as essentially a testing ground. And so I've been fortunate to live in Austin with the university here in Boulder, Colorado with the university. And I just immersed myself with young, now Gen Z women to help me kind of mold and get feedback on the product. So those kind of those are three points that come to mind. I can recap them, like, what's unique to you as the founder, Your pain point that you're solving for that other people wouldn't have access to, or that same perspective. Work with an expert to essentially sharpen and kind of differentiate the key ingredient, however that applies. And then closeness to customer, like, get in the field, seek critique, seek feedback, be obsessed with it. I remember growing up with here in Boulder, a friend of mine's dad owned a number of Domino's chains. And every time I'd see him, he was reading like, whatever customer complaints. But he had like a, a direct thing on, like his direct email on, on the site and at the stores. And he wanted to hear all of that feedback. And so every day it'd be like the craziest stories. But I think founders who do this well and like, have a serious commitment to the best product, are obsessed with critique and seek it out every way possible.
- [31:15]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, I agree. And can you paint a picture around, like, how many conversations you had to get to a place with Joggy where you were like, yep, like, I think there's something here.
- [31:27]
Ty Haney
Again, like, I knew that there was something here, just personally not having an option, that was obvious to me in the energy drink space. And I think it helps when there's tailwinds. So better for you has obviously turned on, as evidenced with Poppy and Siete, et cetera. And then the energy category, a few things there. It's a super high growth category. And so I kind of fortunately fell into that as well, as it's traditionally male founded. And so from a storytelling standpoint, something that really worked with outdoor voices as a founder of an activewear brand was Nike, Under Armour, Lulu. All of them were founded by men. And so similar in the energy drink space, as you think about Logan Paul, I'm spacing on the guy's name from Red Bull, Mastavist or something, but they're all like intense and macho. And so again, I was able to bring a unique female perspective as founder and now story around it that's really attracting this Gen Z and Millennial Woman. And so there's a number of things that have gone into just this feeling like an interesting opportunity. I think it's been cool because I started Tyb and Joggy was kind of the owned brand under Tyb, testing the platform and tool. And so Joggy got to incubate without kind of the pressures of its own kind of dedicated investors before spinning out recently in September, which allowed us to test into different formats of things and really take our time to like immerse ourselves in people's feedback of the product. And I hadn't had that kind of luxury before. And so we went to market kind of officially at the end of last year and more recently into 900 targets. But we had been able to like take our time with product development and really lean into feedback, which you know, was a pretty lucky and fortunate thing to be able to do.
- [33:29]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, so that paints a really good picture for people. Right? Like I think so many people, they have this idea, they hold on to it and they just want to launch it and they just like. It's just this fear of like speaking to people and, and yeah, you know, want like. Do you think it's crazy that a lot of people are worried about having their ideas stolen?
- [33:52]
Ty Haney
Oh yeah. That's insane. I remember like feeling that early on, but now like the coolest thing ever is to like build in public. And like, I think certainly a lot of the consumer brand business is about entertainment and will continue to be. And so it's equal parts like building in public, making like bringing people in to see the behind the scenes content is such a beast and such a requirement. Now there's this brand called Cluli. I don't know if you've watched them, but they're like very study. They've just kind of like had a meteoric rise in the tech space. But it's just evidence that like narrative and entertainment is just becoming such a part of the formula. And I think we've seen that with creator led brands and celebrity led brands like in a lot of ways, like that's just par for the course as we think about successful consumer businesses today.
- [34:53]
Nathan Chan
So do you think that if you want to build a really, I guess, long lasting, impactful, you know, brand, DTC brand that gets cut through, you have to go down the founder led content path now?
- [35:08]
Ty Haney
No, not necessarily. But I think, I do think it doesn't have to be founder led, but there has to be certainly compelling content. I think I'm think Aum Salm is coming up for me and I think like what's also I'm seeing success with is just like niche and local. Like I feel like oftentimes people like want to feel as big as, you know, bigger than they are, but what's really resonating is like weird niche, local and that that's getting like a ton of awareness. So that's another kind of potentially like sharp point for people wanting to start brands like feel small. That's cool. Like go into a weird world. And that ultimately will amplify you more than trying to be something to everybody.
- [35:53]
Nathan Chan
I'd like to take a little bit of a shift and talk about, I guess, your rebuild, right, because that's, that's, that's a, you know, a big part of your story now, right? And you're really, you know, you're really forging new paths. So you've rebuilt with real vulnerability, transparency. Like you're showing up, right? You're putting it all out there. What work did you do to show up differently this time round?
- [36:26]
Ty Haney
That's a good question. The most freeing moment in time after the OB piece, and again, that experience was exceptionally awesome, was when I was given the opportunity with a writer from Inc. Called Tom Foster to essentially pen kind of my perspective on what had happened. And the headline was I was able to, like, as the CEO, like, take full accountability. And that was the most freeing moment, like, regardless of the detail. And I just remember that moment in time as like, you know, before and after. And then it's like I've shed myself of kind of the, just pressure of that kind of intense, very intense moment with Outdoor Voices. And I was free again. And so I definitely am somebody who, like, I just enjoy and am obsessed with getting reps. And so there was no option for me to start again and like, follow my curiosity. And I'm really good at casting a big vision and assembling a team to go execute against it. And so I think, again, just like that first eight years was a master class in what to do and what not to do. I've become obsessed with ownership and ultimately, like, underestimated how much that matters. As we think about, like, someone who starts a founder, who starts a company, maintaining ownership means maintaining control. Uh, and I, I did not understand that the first go. Um, so I've been a lot more thoughtful about, you know, when I take on capital and what, what level of ownership I need to maintain. Um, and that was something that, like, simply, I was. I was not aware I needed to be as concerned of the first go.
- [38:31]
Nathan Chan
So if you were to go back in time with ov, would have you raised as much and did you need to raise as much?
- [38:40]
Ty Haney
I don't think so. I think it's been interesting running a software company because there's so much evidence in terms of how scalable it is. So, like, this breakneck speed or high growth scenario is really possible because you're not dealing with physical widgets and inventory. And what if I miss in a Big way, which we did. We bought an insane amount of pink flamingo leggings. And like ultimately that was a really hard thing to recover from. And so yeah, I think we probably did not need to raise that amount of money and we could have gone slower. That model at the time again that I think in a lot of ways has failed just was all about growth at all costs. And then there's, you know, a high probability that something like inventory or just a wrong decision is going to make the wheels fall off. And so I think a more kind of tempered and kind of methodical approach to building a long term sustainable business. If I had the ability to redo that is how I would have, would approach that with OBI again.
- [39:51]
Nathan Chan
Yeah. And it was a different time right now. Now like it's all about profitability. It's actually, you know what I feel more than ever, it's actually cool to say if you've got a really small team, like there's leaderboards, like, like there's leaderboards that people are creating now where you can go and see like a one person AI company that's doing 10 totally in ARR. Like it, it is, it is a definitely a different way world that we're in now compared to sub 10 years ago. And I, I, I really resonate with that. Like so often when you meet somebody and you tell them what you do and you know, you run a company, the one of the first questions people ask is how big's your team?
- [40:39]
Ty Haney
Totally.
- [40:40]
Nathan Chan
And you can either say it with pride, oh, we've got 50 people, we've got 100 people. And people go oh wow, you know, oh, you must be mad like, but it's like, yeah, it's such a fallacy.
- [40:52]
Ty Haney
You know, it's all, it's, I just remember talking with reporters or whatever, journalists, and that's all they would care about. Like how much have you raised? How big is your team? And it's like that has collapsed on itself. And the other thing that is just cool to see is like now we can be less reliant on journalists to like be the filter for our story. And so I and my team and a lot of founders are just committed to growing our own channels and breaking news ourselves and owning, owning the story, etc. So I think that's exciting just having gone through firsthand the experience of the alternative.
- [41:35]
Nathan Chan
Yeah. And one of my mentors, I'm curious now, one of my mentors, he co founded a super large SAS company, you know, multi billion dollar Exit and you know, raised A ton of money, like few hundred million. And then when he was going again, he bootstrapped. And I said to him, why? Why, why are you bootstrapping? And he's like, nathan, well, I've seen both sides of the table and I prefer the other side of the table. You did raise again with Joggy. Why?
- [42:14]
Ty Haney
Yeah, I mean there's a certain amount of capital that you need to like get a company off the ground. We just recently closed our Series a. We raised 11 million for 2IB. And so like I said, our ability to scale the tool is so much just different than physical product. And so to be able to serve thousands and thousands of brands using Tyb, like we need to invest in the engineering team, et cetera. On the joggy front, we haven't raised a lot. Like I would consider it pretty bootstrapped. We've been a lot more mindful just of I've stayed away from the VC path and essentially just like stacked, interesting kind of high net worth people that can be strategic. And so like as a physical product brand, I am doing it very differently than how we funded Outdoor Voices. And we're not getting like ahead of ourselves and we're just focused on more cans and hands and it's not rocket science by any means. Like it's opening accounts, the natural channel in Target sell through like excellent kind of sales team. So it's pretty block and tackle. But I think to your question, we're not overfunding Joggy. We're like, I see this becoming like a Red Bull contender than the kind of next gen Red Bull contender. And that doesn't have to happen overnight.
- [43:49]
Nathan Chan
All right. We have to work towards wrapping up. I'm curious just around your experiences building businesses for over the past decade, especially in the DTC space. So what's one small thing that early stage startups can do that doesn't scale?
- [44:08]
Ty Haney
I mean, I think like do the unscalable in terms of high touchness. I remember like early on with Outdoor Voices, I would write like a handwritten note and like we'd like Xerox, which is kind of funny. It was intentional to like look like a zine, like Xerox, my dog on it. And it was like a high touch element that we'd then like pack into each of the shipments. And it was a note from me and like I literally had written it and that meant so much to people who received it. And I think there are ways to make kind of those higher touch moments scale. But again, back to like kind of to your Point, like it's cool not to have a big team. It's really cool. And like, goes a long way with customers to do things that are unscalable, like these notes or sending them an email, like thanking them, et cetera. So back to the relationship business. Like, that's ultimately what we're in. And so I dated someone in the hospitality world and learned a lot like what, you know, VIP kind of hospitality looked and felt like. And I think people like small startups or smaller businesses should lean into their ability to go all the way with white glove service and high touch kind of hospitality type engagement.
- [45:31]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, I think when, when you're in the early stages, like every customer matters and you can go so far and I think as you grow your business, sometimes it's easy to forget that.
- [45:44]
Ty Haney
Yeah. The thousand, the thousand true fans. The Kevin Kelly concept is certainly like, like nicely stamped in my mind as, as just a concept that really works. And so I agree, like you can, you can really build a great business off of fans that are truly obsessed. And so it's worth doing what is required to make them obsessed.
- [46:09]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, I agree. I got a funny story about him actually. So, okay. I interviewed him a long, long, long time ago for a front cover of founder and it was probably not the best photo of him. And somebody wrote like, is this Father Christmas?
- [46:27]
Ty Haney
Oh my God, I love it. Yeah, I could see that.
- [46:30]
Nathan Chan
Yeah. So I wrote like, you know, we would have posted on our socials, but he's a legend, that guy. Like, he's a, he's a legend. Like I, I agree, like the thousand true fans, like Tim Ferriss was talking about that concept with him 15 years ago. I read about that like before I started founder and like it's legit, like, and it, it makes things so achievable when you think about starting your own brand.
- [46:53]
Ty Haney
Totally, 100%. I love it.
- [46:55]
Nathan Chan
Okay. For founders listening now who feel like they've hit a wall or perhaps have failed publicly. Non, not publicly. What would you say to them right now?
- [47:08]
Ty Haney
Yeah, it takes a lot of shapeshifting, so persistence and determination is just absolutely required. And perseverance. I think like you have to be wired to be able to kind of overcome challenges. You're going to have thousands of challenges in a week and that's just normal. So expect that. But to like wake back up and almost put kind of the 50 first dates mentality like this cap on that. I'm, I don't even remember the challenges of yesterday. Like, I found that priming your mind to like, wake up, it's a new day. Like, here we go, we're going to try something different. Adjust, make pivots, et cetera, really works. And I think ultimately what I've found, like compression of time matters. So the more that you can push, pace around, testing, learning, pivoting, adjusting, and like repeating that cycle every week with your team, ultimately you'll find signals that, that allow you to find that. That striking gold. But pace really matters, I think at the end of the day.
- [48:17]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, it's. It's hard though. It's hard. Yeah. What's one thing that used to feel like a weakness for you as a founder? I'll go again. What's one thing that used to feel like a weakness for you as a founder but now you see as a strength?
- [48:39]
Ty Haney
I think having this like this major traumatic kind of public fall off, or just like, how would I describe it? Just like the public downfall of my first endeavor was brutally painful, but it's actually been how we've built our business with Tyb. Like, everyone, everyone that comes to us knew about our voices and somehow thinks of just the good parts. And so I didn't realize that what felt like such a painful experience could ultimately be our greatest opportunity. And I think in a lot of ways, like as a founder, what feels like the biggest crisis does become your biggest opportunity, if you think of it that way.
- [49:28]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, I agree. All right, last question and we'll work towards wrapping up. What does success look like for you now with Tyb, Joggy and beyond?
- [49:42]
Ty Haney
Yeah, I really want to build and am obsessed with building a billion dollar business. And so I personally like wake up every day excited about this world building under the recreation umbrella of which Outdoor Voices is a good example of. I think Joggy fits into that nicely. And then Tyb, you know, does that outside of just recreation. But for me personally with, with Joggy, like, supports that. And so this like billion dollar business is a goal I certainly have and then this world building under recreation, those are two things that, that motivate me massively. And then I have a daughter and I am very excited and love integrating her into, into our world and very kind of passionate about motivating and kind of being a good role model for the next generation of female founders and business builders.
- [50:37]
Nathan Chan
Thank you so much for showing up and just really just sharing so much of that community.
- [50:44]
Ty Haney
Yeah, of course. Thank you, Nathan.
- [50:45]
Nathan Chan
Hey, founder fam. Thank you so much for tuning in today and if you enjoyed this episode, please take the time. Time to leave us a review and let us know what you think. This podcast is 100% free. We work so hard to go out and find the most successful entrepreneurs and founders in the world. Your feedback helps us grow, improve, and even bring on more incredible guests and insights. So if you have a second, please take a moment. Leave us a review. It really makes a difference. Thanks again for listening and I'll catch you on the next show.