← The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan
The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan
577: The Genius Referral Model Behind Burst’s Multi-Million Dollar Brand (Best of Foundr)
00:42:49
Brittany Stewart turned toothbrushes into a breakout DTC success story—co-founding one of America’s fastest-growing eCommerce brands: Burst Oral Care.
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- [00:02]
Brittany Stewart
Hey, founder fam. I want to talk to you about something super exciting. We're officially partnered with Omnisend, the email marketing and SMS platform built specifically for e commerce founders. We've been recommending Omnisend to founder students for a while now because it just works. Whether you're launching your first store or you're scaling to seven figures, it really helps you automate your marketing and get real results. Did you know, on average, OMNISEND customers make $68 for every $1 they spend, which is an insanely good return. And because you're part of the founder community, you get 50% off your first three months with the code FOUNDER50. Just head to omnisend.com founder without the e to get started. All right, now let's jump back into the show. Hey, guys. Welcome back to the Founder Podcast. In this episode, I'm joined by Britney Stewart, co founder and president of Burst Oral Care. Britney's built one of the fastest growing e commerce brands in the US Turning an industry as boring as toothbrushes into a massive business. From grassroots launches at dental conventions to working with influencers like Khloe Kardashian and Kim Kardashian, she's done it all without falling into the usual startup traps. So in this conversation, we break down how Britney cracked product market fit scale with minimal funding and built a customer base that's fiercely loyal. We get into the realities of managing explosive growth, what it really takes to build lasting brand in today's market, and why caring about your customer experience beats any marketing hack. So if you want an unfiltered look at what it takes to build a brand that lasts, then this one's for you.
- [01:41]
Nathan Chan
Hear the stories, learn the proven methods, and accelerate your growth and future through entrepreneurship. Welcome to the Founder Podcast with Nathan Chan.
- [01:55]
Brittany Stewart
Brittany, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today. The first question that we ask everyone that comes on is, how did you get your job? AKA how did you find yourself doing the work you're doing today?
- [02:06]
Nathan Chan
How to find myself. I mean, the acute answer is my dear friend, who is a venture capitalist and a surfer, surfed every day with Hamish, who is my business partner, and introduced us and thought we would be like the business partner of this entry. And I think maybe he was right.
- [02:24]
Brittany Stewart
Yeah. So can you tell me, when did you start Burst Oral? And like, how. How. How long ago was that?
- [02:32]
Nathan Chan
So we launched in August of 2017, and we launched at a dental convention in Chicago, Illinois.
- [02:41]
Brittany Stewart
Was this your first business?
- [02:42]
Nathan Chan
No. So I had been. You Know, kind of like a founding member, partner of a business preceding this. So we, we had created finditparts.com, which was the largest distributor of heavy duty tractor trailer parts online. So built that up from about 2012 to 2017 and really grew that business nicely. So kind of the arc of my career has been web based businesses doing commerce, so selling things to people online. And, and that's pretty much whether I started as a consultant and then I moved on to, to, you know, kind of do my first real go at a startup. And then Burst is sort of the next step in that iteration for me. But really understanding specific industry niches, selling things online and why people would do that is, I guess, would be the thread of. Of. Of me.
- [03:39]
Brittany Stewart
Yeah, I see. And what was the inspiration for first Oral care? Like, how did you come to this idea?
- [03:47]
Nathan Chan
You know, it's really interesting. So, hey, man, she's my partner, you know, has only ever worked in oral care his whole life, right since he was like 19 years old. And we, you know, he kept seeing the opportunities in the marketplace. Like, you know, why hasn't that changed for so long? And you know, it seems like people might want this, this, or this. So when we were introduced, we really started to talk about two things, which was, what makes a great product? And, you know, why have people forgotten about the professionals, like the dental professionals who take care of you all the time? It used to be kind of like back in the day, it was like, you know, nine out of ten dentists recommend X, Y or Z. And so what really kind of made us know that we had something special was not only this product that we had put through R and D that, you know, we took this feedback from dentists and hygienists and they said, you know, I wish I had a softer bristle. I wish I had a bristle that could get under your gum line. And we realized that, like, oh my gosh, we have this innovation engine and we also have our own marketing channel essentially. And we felt like this combination of something really amazing to sell people and a really unique way to sell it. What was the genesis of Burst that really carries forward through today?
- [05:06]
Brittany Stewart
Can you talk me through, I guess the. How did you launch? Did you. Did you raise capital? Was it, did you know, was it? Yeah, talk me through that. And getting the first product.
- [05:17]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, yeah. So, like, if we go back to like the basement days of the business, right, we found two gentlemen to be our angel investors. They both had, in their professional careers, been very successful investing in public equity. So one had worked at Capital Group and one had worked at Fidelity, which, between the two of them, probably almost everybody's retirement plan on earth is managed by one of these. And they covered consumer products and retailers. And so we came to them and said, there's this idea. They were the first two to cut a check. And it wasn't like a significant size. You know, it's like a few hundred thousand dollars, which is not in the realm of. I want to be really sort of self aware here. Yes, that is a lot of money. But in the realm of like capital raising, that's not outrageous, right? And they gave us a little bit of capital and then said, see what you do with it. And so we used that capital and they brought in. We brought in a third angel, Michael, who's like, also like our mentor. And we bought half of a booth at a dental convention in Chicago, Illinois. Like, that's all we. Like, we were really budget conscious, right? Like, we were even conscious about how these dental conventions charge you like $500 to receive Steve your goods. So instead we sent them to, like, my mom and dad's house and made my dad drive us to the convention. You know, we were really capital conscious at the beginning to make sure that we didn't blow it. So we're getting, you know, like, you having your dad drop you off at school, essentially. And we had an iOS app. And our plan was we were going to sign up Densville hygienists to become marketers and recommenders of our product. So we had like this goal of, like, maybe we could sign up five or 10 people and like, this would have been worth it. We sold out a product. We crashed our app. We, we, for 12 hours, couldn't get out of our booth. Like, I had, like, sweat through my shirt. There were people like, you know, this idea that paying attention to a dental professional was a good one. And it was like in that moment, we knew it like this dental hygienist convention in Chicago, Illinois. So they go and they get their continuing education credits and then come learn about dental companies. We were mobbed. Like, I've never. I can't. I can't quite explain it, but it's like almost like maybe like what a rock star feels like when they're, like, trying to leave the concert so we don't have a bathroom break, food break, nothing for 12 hours. Sell out of our product and signed up all of these dental hygienists who became our very sort of like, foundational ambassadors, and many of whom are still with us today. And we replicated that model when we started to go to every dental convention in America. And I think probably for three years, I went to every convention in America. Like, every state has one. And I was like, if there was two in the same place at the same time or different places, same time, I wasn't able to go to that. But every weekend, I was at a dental convention, and that is how we built this grassroots community who has guided this company.
- [08:16]
Brittany Stewart
Yeah. Interesting. So fast forward to now. Like, you guys are one of the fastest growing online e commerce brands in the United States. I'd just love to get a little bit deeper on the idea and how you knew when you were onto something. Like, how did you have. Like, when was the moment that you gained confidence to go, yep, we're onto something.
- [08:39]
Nathan Chan
So Hamish came to me with a prototype, right, that he had been working on. So he's very much like our. In, like, our inventor kind of guy, right? So, like, we always say, hamish had a product and he needed someone help to make it a business, right? And so we were kind of dancing around each other. So he brings me prototype and I use it. I then go see my dentist, who happens to be married to, like, one of my best college friends, and my dentist goes, did you go get your teeth cleaned before you came here? Because I'm always, like, in trouble for something, like a bleeding gum in the back or, like, a little bit of plaque and, like, the back molars, right? And he was like, if it looks like you went and got your teeth cleaned before you came here so I wouldn't yell at you, I was like, no, I'm using this new electric toothbrush that we're kind of prototyping to figure out if this is the right product for us. And, like, is it really that good? And Sean was like, yeah, she never looked this good. And I think that was, like, this moment that I knew, I really knew in my, like, soul that there was something special. And then we would give prototypes to people whose opinions we wanted, and they'd call us up and be like, I feel like I just left the dentist. Like, I feel like I teeth feel really clean, and I feel, like, excited to brush my teeth again. And I was getting this, like, feedback about a toothbrush that is usually reserved for, like, a Prada bag, right? Where people are like, oh, my God, I got this. And so I think that was the moment I knew that there was something there to explore. So, like, that was proof point number one. And then proof point number two was Going to this first dental show or, you know, I don't know if you've ever spent time with dentist or hygienists. Like, dentists aren't like, kind of renowned for having like this bubbly, outgoing, you know, excited personality. And these people were crowding us in, like, re whose job it is to take care of your mouth, were telling us, like, I want to be a part of this. This is brilliant. So I think the two, those two things paired together, you felt how special it was and that's how I really knew.
- [10:41]
Brittany Stewart
Yeah. And so you went out, raised some seed funding and like this prototype, how did you bring it to life? Can you talk me through kind of those next steps? With that seed funding, you worked out your go to market strategy to kind of seed fulfillment. But like, talk to me about the actual manufacturing side. Was most of that seed capital for MOQ to. For production or.
- [11:08]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, so I, I feel like our early capital was, was allocated in two buckets. Right. So there was the need to actually get some inventory. And I'll even be like crazy specific for you. Like the first PO I ever signed, I signed for 5,000 units. And I was like, cool, that's a lot. We manufacture in China. And so you have about 30 days of production or 45 days of production. You got 30 days on the ocean. Right. So you're talking like, you know, a 60, 75 day cycle of like when you put that money down and how long you're waiting for the product, and when you're new and you're done, you don't have terms. Right. Like, so we were like 50% down and 50% like before the goods left the factory. Now we have like much better terms as a, you know, a much bigger business. So the capital went to that manufacturing. And then the second thing is that we were building this proprietary technology to build approaches. It's called direct recommending. Right. It's not an mlm, it's not direct selling. It's every single person is sort of compensated for being someone who recommends and helps us create our products. So we developed a custom web platform and app on iOS and on Android and then. And a little bit of marketing materials, like, you know, our T shirts and our booth design and blah, blah, blah. So that those three things probably tapped almost all of the seed capital.
- [12:39]
Brittany Stewart
Yeah. Wow. And so you went to your first, you would say trade show, sold out. What happened next?
- [12:48]
Nathan Chan
So then after that we kind of like come back, like come back to our reinvestors is we say, okay, we got all this data, like, let's take a look like. And so what we monitored was so in our very first six months of business, like, we never had an advertisement. We never had a single bit of marketing other than going to our trade shows and then empowering our ambassadors. So what we started to track was, okay, well how like economically effective is an ambassador and you know, what's the growth rate look like this way? And so what we really did was like, we learned from our customers and we learned from our ambassadors. So what is making someone buy? What is making someone not buy? What is making someone an effective ambassador? And so we really optimized our online shopping experience, our ambassador onboarding experience. And so we probably, you know, that that lasted, you know, that initial capital in this like sort of observation and optimized period, probably five or six months. Months, if I'm remembering correctly, before we need then needed to go for like a seed two round. So. Yeah.
- [13:53]
Brittany Stewart
And like how quickly did it take to get traction? Like, because 2017 actually isn't, isn't that long ago. You guys have had incredible success for how long you guys have been around. So I assume like traction came pretty fast or what did that timeline look like?
- [14:10]
Nathan Chan
I would say like I could, I can pinpoint the business, like very like almost like on a graph. Right. So From August of 2017 to March 2018, you could have mapped my progress. Almost like a steady mountain climb. Right. Like you, the numbers and the metrics were very predictable. Then In March of 2018, we thought, what if we advertised? What if we, what if we made an ad? What if we made a video of our ambassadors showing you how good this product works? And so we put this ad up on Facebook and that slow and steady growth suddenly looked like like the facade at like Half Dome. Like, we doubled the business one month and then we doubled it the next month and then we doubled it again. And our definition of doubling is doubling the number of people who are subscribed to the business. It was, was extraordinary that people were responding to this profession. Like, we sort of took this idea of the professionals are who you should listen to. And then we advertised the professionals on like Facebook and Instagram and Snapchat. And people watched these videos and they were like, what? Yes. And, and then, then we, you know, hit this wall that you'll find like, you know, you need money if you're not successful. You need more money if you are successful. And so we started to see, oh my goodness, we need working capital. Like going back to that 75 day lead time for Products. And I'm doubling and I'm doubling and I'm doubling. All of a sudden I'm starting to sweat. And I realized, like, I need, like, serious capital to support this growth because that all you need this customer service to match it, and you need an inventory supply that's matching this growth curve and then some. And, and so then we had to go out and do like a proper, like, institutional capital round from there. Yep.
- [16:13]
Brittany Stewart
Got you. And can you talk to me about the advertising side of things? Just because it's changed a lot these past two to three years.
- [16:25]
Nathan Chan
Yes. Sorry, I didn't mean to laugh.
- [16:27]
Brittany Stewart
Yeah, it's all good. Because I, I, I think we, we both know those changes probably intimately well. So obviously advertising was one thing that really allowed you to put gasoline on the fire to the business, but what other things did you do to, to really scale out the business?
- [16:45]
Nathan Chan
Well, what was interesting is that these, these things were working in tandem. Right. So you continue to grow this base of advocates and ambassadors who are recommending your product. And so they're acquiring each of them, a number of customers per month. And then I'm acquiring more ambassadors every month by going to these shows. So, you know, for example, In March of 2018, I went to six dental conventions, which are trade shows, and each of these I signed up anywhere between 100 and 400 dental hygienists and dentists to be our ambassadors. Right. And the crew of people there. So you have this, your proprietary acquisition channel continues to grow in size and then, and an exponential vector because, you know, if each one of These is acquiring 10 customers a month, and then you have 200 of them, 400, you, you get the, you get the order magnitude. So this is growing alongside the advertising side of things. And then you, the third bucket is you have customers telling other people about it because they're fanatical. The cheapest form of marketing you have is customers telling other people about it because they love it so much. And that we tracked a lot of business to that too.
- [17:58]
Brittany Stewart
Yeah. And can you talk to me around the infrastructure to maintain that level of scale? And some of the things that, you know, anyone watching this might be thinking, what are the things that I need to be thinking about if I've got a business that's just going through a meteoric growth race? Growth rise. Yeah.
- [18:17]
Nathan Chan
I think it always goes back to your customer. That is your ultimate source of truth. Right. So when you think about the most important part of your infrastructure, the answer should be what best serves my customer, especially if You've got a subscription based business like I do, where you want to keep that customer. So we invested in an infrastructure that ensured that the customer was going to be serviced well. So in the early days, and actually still to this day, customer service outnumbers any other type of employee that we have. You, if you've got a question for us, we have an answer for you in a timely, kind, fun, professional fashion. Right. That sticks with people. We made sure that your order to deliver time was very tight and without. And I won't get into specific names because that would be like disparaging but like we had a choice between carriers, right. Of who was going to deliver your package and there was one carrier that was significantly cheaper than another and we did not go with them because we felt that 14 days of delivery time is not a great customer experience. And so we're going to go with the more expensive delivery option to get you a better customer experience. And we, we consciously made that decision. So I think it was about delivering the product, delivering a customer experience. And then, you know, the other things that kind of then grow in the background when you're building a business like this are your technology team. How does that need to scale? Scale? You need like a real finance team. State sales tax is real and you got to pay it. You got to make sure you're filing that. Like these are things that like you, a lot of people skimp on their, their finance team early on and very much to their detriment. I'm like a purist on this front. We brought in a CFO really early. He is phenomenal. And then when it came time to raise big dollar venture capital, diligence was not difficult because I didn't have messy books. Like we actually started auditing our books from 2018 on. So we had audited financials, which you don't hear like a lot from startups, but that's something that we did was that we were, we knew how big we could be and we were going to build it right from the start and we had the support from our board to do that. Like some things like decisions to do things like bring on a high dollar employee like a CFO early on versus later on.
- [20:38]
Brittany Stewart
Yeah, that's smart. What, what were some gotchas? Like what were some big hurdles that, that have happened on the journey thus far?
- [20:48]
Nathan Chan
Gotchas. I would say that in the early days, like we had maybe let's say loosey goosey, but we felt we were maybe loosey goosey on our like our personnel protocols. Our HR protocols if you were. And like nothing inappropriate but lack of clarity leads to lack of security for people. And like we didn't really think about like okay what's this person's career path and income trajectory to not really gotcha. As much as a wisdom learned that you we should have been more thoughtful about those things. Like this isn't like a swashbuckling band of people who are just getting it done. Like these are also people who are investing in their lives and their future. So I would say that you know bringing really thinking about people planning earlier on that would be a gotcha. When people told us that dealing with like retailers and and the like is a very different beast than running D2C I think we underestimated what they. We underestimated the wisdom that they were giving us. And, and I, and I and I wouldn't do that again. You know the how much of your I guess like your, your life and your like how much time you spend with legal like it just. I think that would shock you too. You know when you have advertisements to consumers like at a certain scale you start everything is. You know, you review it for advertising performance claims and, and and just you know following like your P's and Q's. Like the, the regulatory environment for just being an entrepreneur is so much crazier than I think anyone would think. Just feels like you do a lot of things that are administrative or regulatory to make sure you're crossing your T's dotting your eyes. What else? What else? I mean we haven't had any knock on wood horrific moments where I'm like oh, oh no that's good.
- [22:59]
Brittany Stewart
So what about team? Talk to me around team. How do you approach hiring you know, at the level of scale that you know you guys have people is so critical. How did you know kind of when to bring on certain senior leaders mid level manager like how. How that has played out and building your senior leadership team out your exec team.
- [23:23]
Nathan Chan
Yeah. So I think the overarching belief of a company is quality of person is more important than quality of skill. That's a very important belief of ours. Like I will take somebody who is 75% of skill with 100% of heart, integrity, loyalty and drive over 100% to skill and 75% of that. Like we've had great success investing in people's careers promoting from within. So that is a, that is like a foundational belief of our business that we'll take passion over experience. And that's worked out really well for us. Then in terms of how do you plan for what roles you need? I think, you know, on the one side you, you sort of, you make your plan and you work your plan and then while you're working your plan, you realize where your plan was flawed. So you thought you needed this, but really you need this. And I'll give you a great example. Like we're going through the biggest area of growth in our business right now is really on our, our marketing team. And what we're, what we realized, I'm not saying that this is a universal truth, this is a verse truth, but we realized is that the greatest creative people feel bogged down if they're burdened with being the greatest process people. So what are we going to do to fix that? And the inclusion of creative project managers to help facilitate projects that don't take away from creative thought. But also, I'm not running a preschool. Like, we gotta get stuff done. It's a for profit business. Projects have deadlines, campaigns have to launch, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So how do you balance between these two things where it's like, this isn't an art project, this is a business project that is creative. And so we, we always say, like we have this other phrase we use, you can't make an apple and orange. This great creative person is never going to be my spreadsheet person. And that's fine. So let's figure out how to make that work. So no, that's what I mean is like you kind of make your plan, you think this is how the team's going to work. And then as you're working on it, you realize, okay, here's what, here's what I didn't take into account. And now I need to modify this plan.
- [25:45]
Brittany Stewart
What advice would you give to founders in the early stages around finding product market fit and really knowing that it's there? Did you, would you say that was a challenge for you guys or.
- [25:58]
Nathan Chan
We did a lot of market research before we had a product. So that's the advice if you think the research process is you have an idea and it's a great one and that's it. That's a terrible market research plan in my opinion because you're, that's your experience and that's your viewpoint. And I've never known anybody to kind of go out and do the work of gathering feedback who, yes, their original idea was great, but here's here were the missing things that took it from good to great or excellent. And really talking to people and Doing your research matters. So if you think you've got a great idea, talk to people about it that you trust. Get feedback, do some research on who does something same, similar, or different. I think another great question to ask yourself is, who's tried this before and failed? And how have they failed? What didn't they get right? Because not very few things are, like, truly new under the sun. So there. There. There. There probably has been some version of this idea in some way that may not have made it. And what. What didn't they get right? So I think we did it. I mean, Hamish and I spent six months just getting to know each other before we decided to be business partners. Like, you'll spend more time with your co founder if you choose to have one, then you will. Your spouse, your children, your family, your friends. It's a very, very personal relationship, and you have to rely on each other and be a different kind of honest and strong. And so I think it's really important to do that. So we researched each other, we researched the products, and so we felt really confident. And like I told you, I then used the product, went to a dentist, didn't tell him I'd been using it, and he was like, where have you been?
- [27:49]
Brittany Stewart
Yeah, I. I'd love to shift gears and talk about influences. So you guys have worked with some of the biggest influences on the planet, like Kim Kardashian, Kylie Jenner. Like, what kind of impact does that make on. On a business?
- [28:07]
Nathan Chan
I think it varies, so I don't know that I could answer that generally, but I can answer it for my business. So the first big influence I worked with was Khloe Kardashian, and she was tremendous for my brand, and I'm thankful to her, and I'm thankful for the work that she did, and I will always be, because I think that she was really authentic with my product. And. And what it did was this thing that this grassroots group of people was really fanatically behind, and it still is to this day. I think for them, it was like a validation moment. Right? Like, listen, it's not just me. It's one of the most important business and beauty influencers in the world. She's a fan of this, and. And she can use anything. She uses this. And she's probably offered, you know, they know, reasonably. She's probably offered tons of deals every single day, and she doesn't take every single one of them. So I would say that there was, like, this legitimizing factor for them. They really enjoyed. And then same thing on the consumers. It got you on the radar in a way that you hadn't been before. And people ask me all the time, like, should I hire an influencer? And I always say, if it's authentic to what you're doing, like, is that influencer influencing the customer that you think you have? And if the answer isn't yes, then, like, that's probably not a great investment. We had so many brand tenants that really matched Chloe, and so she felt so right for us at that moment where, like, one of our brand tenants was, like, just really being open and talking with people about what's going on with you. And, like, that's like, kind of what she's known for, being open to, trying new beauty products, being loving the way that your things function, the way they look. So we just felt like there was so many great overlaps that it was right for us, and we have really great results. So I think that influencers are very sink or swim as I think the wisdom. Like, you know, I talk to people who are like, I made this huge investment and I got nothing out of it. I hear that time and time again. So I would say really getting an ROI on it is possibly more the exception than the rule. But to get the roi, do the work. Figure out who your customer is and who influences that customer. I think that's the thing. I think the. The maybe people just do the thing is, like, that's a big name, and, like, there are big names. Like. Like what? Like, Cristiano Ronaldo is, like, the biggest Instagram influencer in the world. But, like, I don't know that my customer is his follower. So that probably would be a good investment for me. I could be wrong. Maybe. Maybe it could. But, like, I'd have to do the work.
- [30:55]
Brittany Stewart
And when it comes to kind of, you know, working with Kim or Kylie or Chloe, what's more important to you? Is it them doing a post and expecting a return, or is it the content that you get from that? And also, I guess, the association and.
- [31:13]
Nathan Chan
Elevating your brand, I'd say that's evolved over time, Right? So in the Chloe post, which was really early for us, ROI mattered because, like, it's just financial for us. And then by the time we got to Kim, which was this past Christmas, I think it was more about the brand, you know, than the roi, and we wanted. We felt like we had really arrived, right? Like, we've been growing, growing, growing. And we had asked ourselves, like, who? When you think of, like, okay, you really, like, you're you're the one. You're. You're the brand. Kim felt like the right person to say, like, that's. That's the case. That's the truth. So far, I'd say we had evolved and grown enough that we could afford to do something that wasn't pure ROI trackable. You can't really do that early on. You got to achieve a certain amount of scale, you know, and at that point in time, I had been. I was on television, television advertising. We did the most beautiful. So we launched a lavender edition, a limited edition of the product, and we did this beautiful animated flower ad scored to classical music, and it was running on Hulu. So we were doing all of these other sort of integrated marketing things, but that. That matched, you know, it fit for the time.
- [32:35]
Brittany Stewart
Yeah. Okay, that's really cool. So love to switch gears as well around other brands when it comes to, like, looking at other brands. What's common mistakes you see people making.
- [32:45]
Nathan Chan
In 2022 to be authentic with your customer, you know, like, and I don't want to be just like, I won't name names, but when I see somebody making a false claim to a customer, that's a brand for today, not a forever brand. So if you tell somebody they're going to get results or experience a thing, and then that's not what they get. Like, you know, like that famous TikTok thing right now, like, what I bought versus what I got, like that. That's funny in the moment, but also like, that person's never buying from you again. So trust is nothing other than people will behave in a manner consistent with what you expect. Right? And a brand is built on that feeling. So if you don't get it right, you fix that or you apologize. Right? Because, you know, anyone can have accidentally defects, the product happens. But if you're consistently not having that direct and honest dialogue with your customer or you're telling them things that aren't true, I think you're a today brand, you're a now brand. You're not a forever brand. And I think that's what people are getting wrong, is that I think people are more conscientious about what they're using their dollars for. How that quality. How good is that quality? Is this made of things that are good for me? What is it that you're doing for the environment? What are your stances on issues plaguing this world? The customers are signaling that they kind of want. They don't need the answer they're looking for, but they do need the Honest answer to that question. And so that's what I think I see brands doing wrong is they're, they're chasing trend or claims, and they're not chasing what makes a good product and a good customer experience.
- [34:33]
Brittany Stewart
I'd love to talk about giving back. I know this is something that's really important to you. How do you maintain that balance versus giving back versus investing back in the business?
- [34:48]
Nathan Chan
Yeah, I think giving is an investment in the business is the short answer. So I'll give you a great example. We are 90% plus of our customers are women. Right. So back a little back a ways ago, we had the opportunity to do a limit, a partnership and a charity opportunity. And so we partnered with the Call of Duty Endowment. The Call of Duty Endowment is administratively funded by Call of Duty, the video game. And Call of Duty Endowment finds meaningful employment for people who've served in our armed forces. And they define meaningful employment as like a salary job that this person is going to be in five to ten years from now. It's the beginning of a career. And this is very important because these people do honorably, like serve our country. It is a sacrifice. And there are no great programs for them when they come back to reintegrate them into society. And so it's a phenomenal organization. And so we've never marketed to men before. And all of a sudden I have this limited edition camo toothbrush that has the Call of Duty camo on it. And in exchange for the use of the camo, I donated a hundred thousand dollars to the Call of Duty Endowment, which I think if I'm going to remember, I'm going to remember my math correctly, which equates about finding a thousand jobs for veterans who've served. And so what a great giving moment to something we all genuinely believed was a great career cause and something good to do. But also we were on the radar of a different customer that had never heard of us before. This gamer, this young teenage male, or, you know, it was like there's like two kind of archetypes, like your high teenagers and like your mid-30s, and they're all men. And a lot of them are single. Like, we had never spoken to that audience before, and we sold out of that brush in a matter of days, like out of stock. And so this is an example. So when I think about giving, I think about giving that the whole. I want the whole company to feel good about. We have town halls about what are we going to give to. And we make it part of our message, which is that we're the, the care part of our brand reversed oral care and we care about people and we try to find unique and cool ways to do that that still match our are imperative as a for profit company. So whether that's, you know, during October during breast cancer awareness month, running a special on a rose gold and a certain percentage of those proceeds go to stand up to cancer. We, we just try and find a way to make it seem like it's, it's part and parcel with what we do. Or for example we did last summer a partnership with Christian Siriano who's like one of the most famous fashion designers on the planet and he just designed a floss case for us that celebrated pride and then we donated to the Trevor project. So these, it all feels like that makes sense to the customer, makes sense to our company and makes sense to our values.
- [38:04]
Brittany Stewart
That's really amazing. Thank you for sharing. We'll have to work towards wrapping up a couple of last questions and then we'll move to the rapid fire round. As your company is scaled, how have you been able to maintain a consistent, I guess, buy in around the mission, vision and values of Burst when you've gone through such rapid growth and really, you know, I guess making your team as you get bigger and bigger still advocates for the work that they're doing?
- [38:38]
Nathan Chan
It's a very hard question, but I think I would break it up into two parts. First of all, as the founders and the leaders, you have to be stalwart in your mission and you cannot, you have, you have to be immovable and, and that requires a lot of self discipline and I think we're really good at that. Self discipline like a daily financial result, a quarterly financial result. The article you read in the paper about supply chain Covid, these cannot move you off of your mission, vision and goals that, that like you know, the top of Everest is still the top of Everest, right? So I think it's discipline. And then secondarily going back to our thoughts about people, you, you, you define the culture and culture comes from the top. And so if you live and embody these mission and values and then you make sure that that's how your managers are enabled to manage their teams and you're managing them that same way. It's functional and rational and that's how we've done it. We are a very. Most people who work for us say that this is the best job they've ever had in their whole life. And that's a conscious effort to decide that the people matter just as Much as everything else, and that's core to our mission.
- [40:00]
Brittany Stewart
Amazing. So look conscious of your time. Have to work towards wrapping up. Last question before we move to rapid fire is where do you see burst in 10 years?
- [40:12]
Nathan Chan
There is a burst product in every bathroom in America.
- [40:15]
Brittany Stewart
Love it. All right, so we're going to move to the hot seat. Got just a few questions for you, Rapid fire. If you could go back to your first day in business and give yourself one piece of advice, what would it be, and why?
- [40:30]
Nathan Chan
Sleep while you can, because the busier you get, the less sleep you're gonna have. And also, I'm sorry, I'm gonna do a second one and enjoy it, because this journey is the greatest journey of your life.
- [40:42]
Brittany Stewart
When is work fulfilling?
- [40:43]
Nathan Chan
For me, it's every day, but particularly when I hear the story of somebody who feels moved by being part of our vaster program or, you know, the health benefits that they've reaped from using our products.
- [40:58]
Brittany Stewart
What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?
- [41:00]
Nathan Chan
Never lose a loan.
- [41:01]
Brittany Stewart
What's the worst piece of advice you've ever been given?
- [41:05]
Nathan Chan
I. I think maybe the worst piece of advice I've ever been given is that, you know, someone who passed on investing and I told me I should think about doing something else, and, like, they were wrong. That's awesome.
- [41:16]
Brittany Stewart
If you could have dinner with any entrepreneur, dead or alive, who would it be and why?
- [41:21]
Nathan Chan
I'm going to go with. I think it's. Her name is Madame Clicquot. So the founder of, like V Champagne. She's, like the first entrepreneur female in France. And I know there's just something kind of like, cool and bougie about it all that I want to know. Like, women like you, you think you're groundbreaking. Now, women back then, to do something like that, that's like, how did you do that?
- [41:52]
Brittany Stewart
That's cool. And last question. What's something you've learned today that you'd love to share with us?
- [41:59]
Nathan Chan
That not everybody who gives you advice knows what they're talking about.
- [42:02]
Brittany Stewart
That's a wrap. Thank you so much, Brittany.
- [42:04]
Nathan Chan
Thank you.
- [42:05]
Brittany Stewart
Hey, founder fam. Thank you so much for tuning in today, and if you enjoyed this episode, please take the time to leave us a review and let us know what you think this podcast is. Podcast is 100% free. We work so hard to go out and find the most successful entrepreneurs and founders in the world. Your feedback helps us grow, improve, and even bring on more incredible guests and insights. So if you have a second, please take a moment. Leave us a review. It really makes a difference. Thanks again for listening and I'll catch you on the next show.