← The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan
The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan
589 : The Mad Scientist Behind One of America’s Fastest Growing Supplement Brands | Brian Littlefield (Best of Foundr)
00:46:31
Brian Littlefield is the co-founder and Chief Product Officer of Jocko Fuel—one of the fastest-growing supplement brands in America. But his story didn’t start in a boardroom. It started with a life-changing health wake-up call.
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- [00:02]
A
Hey, founder fam. I want to talk to you about something super exciting. We're officially partnered with Omnisend, the email marketing and SMS platform built specifically for e commerce founders. We've been recommending Omnisend to founder students for a while now because it just works. Whether you're launching your first store or you're scaling to seven figures, it really helps you automate your marketing and get real results. Did you know on average, OMNISEND customers make $68 for every $1 they spend, which is an insanely good return. And because you're part of the founder community, you get 50% off your first three months with the code FOUNDER50. Just head to omnisend.com founder without the e to get started. All right, now let's jump back into the show. Hey, guys. Welcome to the Founder Podcast. Today's guest is Brian Littlefield, co founder of Jocko Fuel, one of the fastest growing supplement brands in America. Starting from a small supplement store, Brian built Jocko Fuel into a powerhouse brand alongside Navy Seal legend Jocko Willink, with a product line trusted by athletes, military operators and everyday high performers. And in this episode, Brian shares the raw story behind Jocko Fuel's explosive growth. How they built one of the most loyal customer bases in the supplement world, and why tying their brand to Jocko's reputation of trust was their biggest advantage. You also hear Brian's mindset tactics, lessons on scaling, product development insights, and how to turn adversity into opportunity. So if you want a blueprint on how to build a supplement brand with trust, community and a world class product quality, this is a must.
- [01:44]
B
Listen, hear the stories, learn the proven methods and accelerate your growth and future through entrepreneurship. Welcome to the Founder Podcast with Nathan Chan.
- [01:59]
A
Well, really excited to speak with you today, Brian. The first question that I ask everyone that comes on is how did you get your job? AKA how'd you find yourself doing the work you're doing today?
- [02:09]
B
Yeah. Oh, that's a great question. So it goes back quite a ways and I've kind of. What's funny is I've told this story a few times and each time I kind of remember that it's like a lot of people go back to like some sort of inflection point that they've kind of had in life that kind of put them on the path they're on. And mine, like, I'll go back and I'll find one, I'll retrace it and then I'll go back even further. And it's kind of funny to See, and I kind of look at it like a tree. So if, like, if. If you're. If your life starts and you're like, you know, you're. You're on a straight path, you're eventually going to branch off somewhere, but then there's hundreds or thousands of different ways that you can go in your life, you know, like, and let's say in. In this respect to your career, like, all these different paths you can go down. So I've traced it back a lot of different ways, but where I'm at today really happened from a point in my life where I was like, I was really, really obese, I was really overweight, and I was. I came from an athletic family. I wasn't genetically gifted like they were. And, you know, I always struggled to, like, you know what I would say, stay on the path and stay healthy and look healthy. I ended up going off to college and ended up gaining a bunch of weight and kind of like, it's kind of funny. It's like that classic story where, like, literally one day I was just like, I need to make a change. You know, I had, like, talked to a doctor, and he's like, yeah, you're like, pre hypertensive. I'm in my 20s, you know, early 20s. And then he's like, you have, you know, borderline high blood pressure. Your blood sugar isn't good, Your lipid panel isn't good. Like, you're not healthy, dude. Like, you need to do something. So right around that same time, I met a guy who. Who kind of like, was like, hey, man, like, let's, you know, I can, like, you should get to. You should come with me to the gym. I'm like, okay, cool. So I'm in school for automotive high performance technology. I went to school. I did that thing that they say, like, at least in my generation, it was constantly, you know, do what you love and you'll never work a day of your life. And I. I think that's. I think you should do what you're good at, actually, and then don't turn the thing that you love into your job, because you might end up hating it. And so for a very long time after I had graduated and I went into motorsports, like, I didn't enjoy it anymore. I quickly realized, like, hey, I turned my hobby into a job, and I didn't really like the job, so I had that attachment to it. So I went back to school for business. And during that transitional period where I went back to school, I had gotten what we call on the path, like, I started, like, dieting, I started exercising, working out, doing everything I needed to do. That pivotal moment is what sent me on the path that I'm on today. And that's really where, like, my story begins. So having said that, I. I'm like, I've always been good in. I always, like, excelled in the sciences. Like, I was always good at, you know, AP and biology and things. So when I was, like, finding my nutrition and health path, I was like a nerd. So I would, like, get done all my coursework for school, and then I would come home and like, be up all night reading clinical literature on, like, different adaptogens and like, different. Like all kinds of different stuff. Just wormholes of stuff and just like building this database. And I graduated from business school having no intent to use it for anything. And I had a job lined up in a financial company. It was like an accelerated program, and I got the rug pull, like, last minute. So I was one of the first in my class to get a job lined up. And then literally a couple days after graduation, I got. I got the call that I wasn't starting that week. So I was like, oh, wonderful. So I fell back on some mod jobs and stuff. What I knew I needed to find my way, and that's when I just jumped in. And my former business partner at the time, we opened up a supplement store. I was like, man, if there's something I know through this path that I've been on, where at that time I was like, you know, I had gotten into jiu jitsu, I was doing fitness, I was teaching classes, I was doing all this stuff. I was like, like, I can sell supplements. Like, everybody comes to me. I ended up being that guy where, like, everybody comes to you for, like, diet, health and wellness. You know, everybody's got an issue or something they're trying to solve, and you end up being that person. I was like, well, why not turn this into a business? So I created a independent supplement store. It was successful. I ran that for a few years, and then I ended up partnering with Pete Roberts, the founder of Origin, and I moved back to the state of Maine and we founded what is now Jocko Fuel. It was a different company, but it is. A year later, it turned into Jocko Fuel. So, long story short, yeah, that's. That's kind of how I ended up in this position.
- [07:30]
A
And what fascinates you about the science of health? Like, you said that, you know, you just come back after. Yeah. Late night and just read all these studies, like, what is it about that?
- [07:39]
B
I think it's about leverage. I have always been drawn to things with, like, leverage. Also. You could think of it as like a force multiplier. So I was drawn to motorsports, the high performance side of things. So I was really drawn to, like, the idea that you can use technology to, like, let's say, create horsepower or faster car. I got into jiu jitsu because I realized, like, you could be. You didn't have to be a big individual or a fast individual or a gifted individual. Like, it was all about technique and using literal leverage. And that's the same thing with health and wellness and nutrition. Like, you can be on the, like, what we call the path. Like, you can. You can be eating healthy and you can be going to the gym, and those are the foundations. Like, if you want to be healthy and you want to get fit and you want to, like, feel good, that's what you should do. Like, you should get sleep, you should go to the gym, you should get some sort of physical activity in and you should eat right. But there's a force multiplier. And that is where I fell in love with it and fell in love with the science of being able to apply it, which is nutraceuticals. Everything from ergogenic compounds, like, they can help with athletic performance to nootropic compounds that can help with cognitive performance. So I just fell in love with the idea that you can leverage these tools to have a better or more robust outcome.
- [09:06]
A
And what motivated you to kind of work with Pete from origin and move back to Maine? Like, how. How. How exactly did that come about?
- [09:13]
B
Yeah, it's, you know, it's. It's. I think, like a lot of entrepreneurs, like, I am in that same category where if I get hyper focused in something, like, I'm like, it's like all in. Just an all in mindset. And at the time, I was all in on. On Jiu jitsu. Like, I was like the idea of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and, like, everything to do with it. So I was actually living in Ohio where I had my store, and I went back to Maine to visit family. And I was like, I need to find a place to train. And so I found this place to go. And I walk in and there's looms. Actually one loom and a couple sewing machines. And I'm like, this. This is like a micro factory in the middle of the woods in Maine in a town of like 700 people. You know, it's. It was pretty. It was pretty wild and if you've never seen a loom before, they're like 4,000 individual pieces moving up and down in synchrony. It just doesn't make sense. So I was pretty blown away at that idea that this guy was resurrecting manufacturing here in the United States for, for Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. So I was passionate about both things. I'm a patriot. I love, I love, I love America and I love the idea of bringing jobs back to America. And like, those two things together, I was like, man, this is, this is win, win. I want to help this dude out. So that's what I decided to do.
- [10:47]
A
And then how did your first collaboration with Jocko come about? Like, how'd you, How'd you. Yeah, how'd you guys bring that to life? And what was your first impression of him, too?
- [10:59]
B
It's kind of funny. It's a funny story. A. A lovely woman by the name of Sarah Armstrong reached out to us and she was like, trying to get a hold of us. And when she got a hold of Pete, actually, she's like, hey, dude, like this guy, Jocko Willink, he's trying to get a hold of you and you should answer because it's a big deal. And, and we're just like these dudes in the main woods trying to resurrect manufacturing and, you know, head down, like, not thinking any of anything. We didn't have a customer service department at the time. You know, like, there was literally seven of us, you know, total. So it was very, very early stage. And I remember Pete responds to him and they jump on like a four hour. Mike. Mike. We. This. The micro factory in the woods of Maine was so small that we had to move Pete and I's office to the downtown, like five minutes away because we needed more manufacturing space in this little building. Like, we literally had grown out of it. So we got like kicked out. And we're downtown Farmington, Maine, and we're like renting this space out. And I, I just remember Pete gets on this zoom call with Jocko and it's like ends up going like four hours long. And it was like the most hilarious thing to listen to because they're totally opposite people. Like, totally opposite people, but they're a lot alike because when you come up through like jiu jitsu and you get to like the. I don't know how to explain it. Like, there's a. There's a weird unity, I guess you could say, of like this energy that was there. And, you know, kind of we all had It. And when it just. When it hit, it hit. It just like, it hit. And they. It was like, you know, like they say, a match made in heaven. And then when Jocko came on, he originally came on to be part of Origin, and he didn't know that Pete and I were doing this thing on the side. We had. We had started a supplement side of the business called Origin Labs at the time, and it was small and we were just grinding. And he was like, I. I didn't know you guys were doing supplements. I wanted. I actually would like to do them, but I didn't. He's like, I. Because Jocko's taking, like, everything. Like, back in the day when, you know, he was in the SEAL teams, like, those guys would do everything they can. Again, I go back to that leverage, you know, the force multiplier. Like, what can they do? They're already at the highest level, the highest. Like, what can they do to get that extra edge? And, you know, so he was taking, you know, different supplements, he was trying different things. And when that consumer report came out that showed Muscle Milk had a bunch of heavy metals in it, he had the stuff all through his house. Like, he. He. Like, everybody in his family were consuming it. And so, you know, his kids are consuming the stuff as heavy metals in it. So he's like, he's really burned to buy it, you know, and rightfully so. So he had that, you know, stuck with him. And when we sat down, he's like, can this be done? He's like, I want to do supplements. He's like, but I want to do them. I want to do them right. I was like, as long as we're able to put the people before profits, that's it. Like, it'll still be profitable, it'll still be a successful business, but we err on the side of people always, and we never compromise. And as long as you're good with that, which obviously we all are, Pete, Jocko and I, it was just such alignment that we were like, cool, let's go. And that's how it started.
- [14:53]
A
And you talk about this energy across the three of you, yourself, Jocko, Pete, I'd love to explore that a little more, because a lot of people get into business partnerships and they never work right. And there's a multitude of reasons why, but there has to be this blind faith and trust. And, yeah, I'm curious, like, can we explore that energy piece a bit more? And that. That kind of how you guys just.
- [15:21]
B
Knew there was the alignment in values. So there's like this alignment in like we both, we all believe. And at the time it was like all encompassing because you gotta remember it was so small, like Origin and, and the idea of Jocko Fuel, which was Origin Labs, was. It was all one. So it was like, you know, zero compromise, all American made, you know, health and wellness, being better, living better every day, doing it through jiu jitsu and combat sports. We're all black belts now. Like we, as you come up through Jiu jitsu, you kind of like it's part of a culture. There's like this, this trust thing. And you, you, it's a, it's a bit of a brotherhood really. Is what, is what it is. And there's something to be said about that. And Pete's made the joke. He's, he's said it before and we have other partners, but he's made the joke. I only, I only do business with black belts. And there's a reason for that. There's a. You get to a point where when you go through the filter, we call it the filter in Jiu Jitsu, where it's removed all ego. Like you, you. It doesn't matter how big or strong you are or how like if you can do, you know, Iron Mans and things like that, like all that goes out the door. You could be D1 wrestler, it doesn't matter. Goes out the door. The moment that you put the gi on, you tie that belt and you get on the mats with people that have been training. It could be a 16 year old kid that's been training since he was like 8, he's gonna get around your back and he's gonna choke you the hell out. And when that happens, because it's real grappling when he does that, you either have a decision to make, you're either like, okay, I'm cool with this. This is the best thing ever. I thought I was tough, I had no idea. Or you're like, my ego can't handle this. You leave and never come back. And that's the filter. And when you get through that filter, where you go from being absolutely terrible at this thing. Like most things that we have to learn in life or things that we want to master, you're gonna suck at when you start. So as you come through it, it really defines you as a person. And I think that was a major, major part of it. There was the fact that, you know, Jocko is obviously what I consider is like an American war hero. Like, we're trying to do what we can on the civilian front to bring jobs back to America with zero compromise. There's just, like, this energy and alignment there. So we were all aligned in, like, values. We were aligned in, like, the mission. We all had the ability to, like, check our egos when needed, and that was super important. So that's. That's what I could say about it. And there was also, on the Jocko Fuel side of things, after the companies started going in their own direction, we had, like, three roles. Like, Jocko was the face. He was the megaphone. He was the. The vision of it. Pete was able to craft this, the beautiful artwork, run the media, do the things that needed to be done. And then I built the products, created the products, talked about the products, and landed on the science side of things. So it was like a trifecta.
- [18:41]
A
And you guys have gone through incredible growth in that time period. I want to talk about that growth because a lot of people would want to understand how to. How to rapidly grow and scale a supplements business. It's a very, very competitive market. But first of all, I'm keen to understand why you guys made the call to tie it in with Jocko's personal brand. And how do you lead a business that's tied to his personal brand or a personal brand?
- [19:11]
B
So we actually, it was kind of. It was interesting. We had a decision to make, and I remember the. The. The conversation pretty vividly where we. We either stayed Origin branded, Origin labs at the time, or we pivot to. To Jocko Fuel. Jocko Branded. And, you know, I had a bunch of mentors and, you know, and. And, you know, a lot of the same of. Of Pete's at the time, because we were very aligned, like I said, and we're in this little small community, and we were talking to people and we just had to, like, I had to kind of see it to believe it and, and understand why we would want to do that. And we. We discussed it and we're. We're. Because, you know, you had people in one corner saying, like, hey, you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. Don't. Don't name the brand after the person. Like, what if, what if, what if? There were so many people saying, what if? Right? What if this happens? What if that happens? And, you know, and. And there's pressure for me on my side of things being, like, in charge of all. At the time, I was in charge of all operations. So, like, it was. It wasn't just, like, the company needs to perform. I'm also developing the product handling all the quality, handling the compliance. So I have this legend who is highly respected in America and around the world for that matter. And like, I have like, all it takes is like one bad batch of product going out and like basically tarnishing his name. So extra pressure right there is, is, you know, it mounts. So there's a lot of things to factor in. When we made that decision, we ultimately moved forward with it because we realized that the best way to, the best way to grow or build, in my opinion, a consumer brand with something that someone's, especially something that someone's going to ingest and consume, you have to have trust. Like, you have to have trust and like people might trust your brand, but if they already trust a person, then you're already ahead of the game. Like, you're, you're already ahead. And Jocko's entire career was built on trust. He built the trust of his, his, his teammates and then everybody that he led as a commander and then, you know, being a leading the west coast SEAL team, training operations and then coming out and becoming a Fortune 500 company leadership trainer. Like people trusted what he was doing and saying and how he was going to take care of people. And so we knew that that was ultra powerful and that's one of the big reasons why we, we moved forward with that.
- [22:06]
A
But you could have just made him the ambassador and the face of the business and still keep. Yeah, name Origin.
- [22:15]
B
We, we could have and a lot of people would have said that that would have been the safer, the safer thing to do. It would be to say, okay, just keep it Origin, but make him the face. Make him the face. And, but there's so many, like we don't like to call Jocko like an influencer because he's, he's like, he moves the needle differently. And, and I can give you some early, some of the early days data points that we use to make this decision. And one of them is like, for instance, like we're surrounded with, you know, we have some people in our network, you know, 5 million, 5 million followers, 10 million followers. They'll make a post, you know, maybe you'll see a little bump, you know what I mean? And sometimes you get a micro influencer who has like, you know, a devote following and 50,000 followers and you get a, you know, they'll make a post. Especially in the early days, they make a post and you're like, wow, that actually, that actually did something, you know, follower count like has, has nothing to, to do with it. It's about what people are driven to do, like, who. What is actually going to make them move and. And be motivated. And it was back in the. Around the time where we were making this decision. Jocko was up in Maine visiting. This is one particular story. He's up in Maine visiting, and it's like the late afternoon, and he's like, I'm gonna put up. Like, we had time to kill. Like, something happened or whatever. We were all sitting around in the office and we had a bunch of extra. Of his extra books that he had shipped up. I believe it was only the. I think it was like just the extreme ownership book. We had a bunch of books there. And he's like, I'm just gonna put a. Put something out on Twitter. He's like, I'm gonna put out a tweet, like, hey, I'm gonna do a book signing till 9 o' clock here in Farmington and see if there's any locals that want to combine. And I'm thinking to myself, like, dude, we're in the middle of Maine. Like, there's like, we're in a town of like, a couple thousand people. I don't know how many people know who you are that also happen to be checking Twitter. That also happen. You know what I mean? I'm like, maybe we'll get some, you know, enthusiasts that are going to, like, come from, like, Portland, Maine or something, and they'll try and make it here. And he puts it out, and like 20 minutes later, there's a line out the door. And I'm like, what the fuck? Like, where are these people coming from? Like, this doesn't. Okay, this is back in 2017, where, you know, his. His social equity has probably quadrupled since then. So a couple hours later, we have people just coming. Just coming into the offices. And then the phones start ringing. We start answering it, and there's people from, like, eastern Pennsylvania, upstate New York, New Jersey. They're like, I'm only like six hours away. Do you think he'll still be there at, like, midnight? Will he still be signing books? They're driving. They're on the way, like, driving six hours so they get a chance to meet him and get their book signed. I'm like, this is crazy. Like, this, this. That's not. That's not normal. Influencer. That's not normal. Like, I'm from the Bachelor, you know, and I'm gonna, like, do a signing, and you know what I mean? Like, it's just. Sorry, if someone's been on the Bachelor. I don't want to hurt your feelings. But there's a different level. And what I go back to is, like, it's because he's not a comedian. He's not a. He's not a goofy dude. You know what I mean? He's. He's. He's a serious dude with a serious reputation, a serious career built on trust and respect and just hard work. And people just love the. Out of that, and they. They want to be a part of it. And that was one of the early things where we. We got a lot of comfort in, like, you know what? I think it might make sense to make this dude not just the face of the brand, but this is his brand. And. And we're just. We're just a part of it.
- [26:29]
A
You said there was a couple of signals. What was the other one? Because this is gold. This is really interesting.
- [26:34]
B
Okay. I was in Long island with Pete and Jocko invited us over to. Oh, boy. What were we doing? We were. Okay, I remember. So we were down there in. We are actually originally in. In Manhattan. We had shipped a bunch of his books down there. He had a new book coming out. We shipped a bunch of books there, and we were going to go meet him at the hotel and he was going to sign them and we were going to take them with us because we were running a promo. We were actually going to, like, I think we were running a sale on something. Everybody was going to get a free book, something like that. He also had an event going on where he was doing a book signing, and then he was going to be addressing an auditorium. So he goes from. I get to see him go from a book signing where people are just emphatical, and he engages and talks to and shows like. Like, I mean, he's truly engaging as a human with every single one of these individuals. It's not just like this passive, like, hey, thanks, you know, like, he. He's truly, like, he gives a. And he's like remembering people. And I'm like, okay. Like, this is one of my first interactions with him. And. And I'm like, all right. So I'm just kind of soaking it all up. And Pete and I are like, we're just standing off to the side just watching it. Then he goes. He does this, like, all night long. Then he goes. And he. He has an event at this auditorium where he's gonna address an auditorium full of kids because, you know, like, Jocko doesn't do at all. He has a successful number of children's books about growing up with self respect and embracing Hard work and everything, called warrior kid. So the head of the school district had asked him to come in because he was going to be in the area and address the kids, and they have a crowd of kids, and he goes through the door, and I'm telling you, it was like a switch. And he goes from, like, being the Navy SEAL, like, leadership coach for Fortune 500 companies, to, I'm going to captivate and make a group of a couple hundred school kids laugh their asses off for an hour long in an instant. And I was like, yeah, I'm. I'm sold. This guy has talents. Like, it's incredible. And he. The way he can captivate people, it doesn't matter if they're 8 or 80, the way he can captivate them, connect with them authentically. That's the other thing. It's like 100% authentic. He loved engaging with every single one of those kids that I was like, this is. Doesn't make any sense to do anything else like this. It's. It's his brand. This is him. Yeah. So that was one of the other instances for me, at least, where I was like, okay, I'm all in. Like, this makes a lot of sense.
- [29:44]
A
Yeah, no, I get it. Thank you for sharing. So love to talk about the growth, rapid growth. Obviously, a big part of, you know, of that is, has been the strategy.
- [29:55]
B
Behind.
- [29:58]
A
Personal brand piece, branding it around Jocko, incredible product. But talk us through, like, how have you kind of set up the business as well for rapid growth and how you've. You've kind of fueled that as well.
- [30:12]
B
I mean, in the early days, we didn't even realize how rapid the growth was going to be, to be honest. You know, like I said, it was. It was all one thing. So it grew. You know, Pete and I, for a year ran this little, you know, version of the company as Origin Labs. And we were running it out of an office suite in downtown and, like, taking, you know, like the day's orders, and we'd take turns packing boxes and take them, taking them to the office. You know what I mean? It was. It was cute is really what it was. You know, like, we were grinding. It was. It was hard work, but it was cute in comparison. And we. It was part of the story. It was part of, you know, our history. But when we launched with one product with Jocko, because that's what he wanted, he didn't. He didn't want to do a line of products. He's like, I want to launch the products that I want to take like, and we're going to do it one at a time to start, and this is how it's going to be. We were like, cool. Like, let's. Let's do it. We're into it. And when we launched, it was just like, it went Richter. And, like, we were just, like, selling out and selling out and selling out and, you know, just shipping like crazy and trying to keep up. Next thing you know, I remember the. One of the craziest parts in the beginning was when we. We started off with small products. We started off with krill oil. So you could fit a lot of units of krill oil on a pallet. Okay, you can fit. I think it's like, 5,000 units of krill oil on a palette. On a pretty small pallet, too. Not like a nonstrasky, but you can only fit a couple hundred units of protein on a pallet. So we were all in one factory in downtown Farmington. So we had sewing machine. Like, on the Origins front, we had sewing machine cell. So it'd be like, sewing machine, sewing machine. Like these little cells. Pallets of protein. Sewing machines, pallets of protein. We just had them stuffed everywhere because we didn't have anywhere to put the product. We had nowhere. And we were just, like, trying to get it off the floor. The stitchers were like, you got to get this shit out of here. I'm trying to make stuff. It was pretty crazy. And we were just, like, just doing anything we could, putting stuff everywhere we could just to try and keep up. And that's when we bought our first facility and we moved on to that one. We bought Jocko Fuel its own facility, which was about 20,000 square feet, had a couple thousand square feet of office space, and, you know, in a warehouse. And then, boom, that started. That's when the companies really started to separate. I went full time on the Jocker Fuel side of things. I went over there in an office. I'm the only one. So we have a warehouse now. I'm the only one in this office. The only one at the time. And then it was just one by one, boom. Adding people, adding people, adding people and filling them in as we. As we grew.
- [33:04]
A
Yeah, talk to me about marketing health supplements, because that can be tricky, you know, effectively advertising without getting penalized. What are some of the things that you guys have done there to be able to overcome that or make it work from.
- [33:18]
B
From an efficacy side of things. Like, I know what you can and can't say for the most part now, you. You have to, like, you certainly have to wordsmith some of the claims. And some of those things, sometimes, especially here in the United States, because it's not regulated at the same level as the fda. It is still regulated by the fda. A lot of people don't think that, but it is not regulated, obviously, like a pharmaceutical drug where it has to go through multiple stages of clinical trials on the finished product. But it's a weird balancing act you have to play. And so in the early days, you know, we. I would say, didn't, like. We didn't. Thankfully, we didn't, like, make any huge mistakes on. On the claims side of things, we really played it safe. Didn't, like, claim that this was this and this was going to cure cancer or diabetes or anything like that. Like, that's, you know, like, so many companies get in trouble because they take, you know, one particular ingredient in the product and they say, oh, well, there's a clinical study that shows that this, you know, helps with blood sugar. So I'm gonna tell people it cures diabetes. I'm like, yeah, that's. That's not gonna end well for you. Um, that's. That's not gonna be good. So we just kind of, you know, played it safe. And then we got to a point where we're big enough, where we brought in one of the top, you know, FDA counseling legal firms, and now we have them vet every single one of our packages before it goes to market.
- [34:53]
A
And they call you the mad scientist of Jocko Fuel. How'd you get that title?
- [34:59]
B
I. I take the science. And obviously, I don't have a classic, like, science degree. I don't have a classic, you know, bio or chem degree. Like, I just don't. And I think some somewhat that's helped me. Unlike a good conduit between, you know, the general consumer and, you know, someone who's a doctor or, you know, someone who's in on the ingredient science side of things, like a chemist. So I take an approach of using only ingredients that actually have clinical literature to support their use for that particular need stay, and then find ways that they can leverage each other to accomplish a particular goal. And we were able to do that on a number of our products where people are like, wow, like, these work better than the other ones in these categories. Why? And then I, you know, I try and explain that, you know, and it really started with our joint support product where people were, like, fanatical about it, because what they would do is they would get on it and then they would. We actually, the number one Response we get from that is, I didn't realize that I needed to keep taking it until I stopped. Like, I've been on it for a year. Someone would be like, I was on it for a year, and then I canceled my subscription. And then like a month later, I was like, why do I hurt so bad? And then realized they, like, needed to go back on it. And, like, it works. Like, you know, it's. So that was. That was one of the early products. And then, of course, our energy drink really kind of took it to the next level. And that's really what has given us kind of, from a product perspective, has. Has given us a lot of recognition.
- [36:44]
A
Yeah. Crazy love to switch gears and talk about mindset, because I think, you know, even in the spirit of, you know, the company, the culture, I think, you know, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, the. The commonalities that both yourself, Pete and Jocko share, I'd love. And you know, what. What lessons can people take from, I guess, your skills in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu to running a business?
- [37:17]
B
I definitely attribute a lot of my success personally to my experiences through the growth of Jiu Jitsu. It's, you know, it teaches you the classic things, like, like, a classic response like, is, like. It teaches you discipline, it teaches you hard work. You know, it teaches you how to, you know, have brotherhood and camaraderie. And those are all true, but from a more. On a more micro level, when you look at things situationally and you can apply the way that. That even if it's adapting you subconsciously, it's doing things for you that you can apply to business that you've. It's really hard to get from other things. There's not many things in life that you can do like Jiu Jitsu on a regular basis and still hold, like, a professional job and. And, like, not go in most of the time, like, with a black eye or a broken nose or something like that, like, if you're doing Muay Thai or something. So with Jiu Jitsu, it's interesting because there's these situations that I think that it's not just the physical. It's the emotional conditioning. It's. It. It truly levels up, like, you're an emotion, your emotional intelligence. Like, there's a. There's a position in Jiu Jitsu for people that don't know that's called the mount. And it's basically like when someone's sitting on you, like you're on your back and their knees are over your belly and they're Basically sitting on you and holding you down. And it's like something that if you had a sibling when you were younger, they would do that to you and you would scream and kick and everything else and you'd try and get out and you couldn't and you'd, you'd, you hate it. And nobody as a grown adult, especially as from, from my take as a grown man, like nobody wants to be in that position and nobody wants to be in that position and not be able to get out. But when you are in that position and your heart's going 170, 180 beats per minute, and you're flailing in the early days because you have no idea what the hell you're doing. You're flailing, you're sweating, you're in this ghee. It's rough, it's hot and it's in an abs. It is in an absolute miserable position. Like you don't want to be there. You'd rather be anywhere else, basically. And it's in that moment when you realize, like, if I can endure this the hundreds or thousands of times that it's going to take to eventually get to a point where I can stop now, I'm not going to kick and flail. I'm going to breathe, I'm going to assess the situation. I'm going to remember my technique and I'm going to take that and apply that to get out of this position and advance myself. When you can do that, man, these situations in business are easy. It's easy. Yeah, it's easy. You, we, we get put in these situations. I remember one of the early days. I'll give you an early, early day scenario. And this is on, on the origin side of things. We've had plenty of these on the jock fuel side of things, but this is on the origin side of things. Everything we were doing was in house manufacturing for our jiu jitsu keys. And the one thing that was outsourced was still in America. It was outsourced was we had a die house in Brooklyn. And since it was the early days, we would take turns loading up the fabric that we wove, driving it to Brooklyn. Someone would either sleep in the vehicle or would get a cheap ass hotel. And you'd have to stay overnight for a couple nights while they dyed the fabric and then brought it back home to Maine. And then, you know, we'd cut it and sew it and then the product would go out. They called us one day and like, they're like, hey, by the way we're shutting down the dye house. Someone's, you know, they're gentrifying the neighborhood. Someone bought it, they're knocking it down. They're going to build a skyrise in Brooklyn and it's the only die house. When I say only, I mean it's like the only dye house. They could do what we needed it to do. So literally in that moment, Origins business was over. That was it like, I mean it's, it would have been a perfect time to just be like, well, that was, that was nice, you know, that was a great run. And you know, maybe I think we swept for about 30 minutes before we, you know, and hyperventilated for a second for maybe an hour. And then we said, what are we doing? And we just went to town and found a solution literally that day that we didn't even think existed. And we ended up having, for a short period of time and we, we had to tell the consumer about this and nobody cared. But we had to drive the fabric to Canada to get it dyed and it was like the only other dye house in North America and we had to drive it up there. But it's like you get these situations where most of the time you would like a lot of people that didn't have kind of like that emotional callous, I guess, might crumble. And so you get in these situations, you're just like, it's not, it's not any worse than a 250 pound man laying on you, dripping sweat all over you and you can't get out. It's like, it's nothing. Yeah, they're just situations. You just, situations you just, you know, you don't react, you assess the situation. You know, look at, you know, do a 360 degree approach, take a second breathe and then, you know, respond and it's, it just makes things so much easier. That's the best thing I can describe.
- [43:02]
A
And for those that haven't experienced this level of, I guess, discipline and you know, doing, doing Jiu jitsu, what would you say to business owners that want to develop a strong mentality? It's, it's do Jiu jitsu or.
- [43:21]
B
I mean, I. So first off, I recommend everybody do Jiu jitsu. I think it's, I think Jiu jitsu could save the world. I think if everybody did Jiu Jitsu, we'd have a lot more respect for each other. I really do. It's also something you can do again if you're 8 or 81 of our black belts in our Gym started training when he was 50, you know, and he's 62. And he went and he won a. We call it Masters, which is like the old man World championships. And he actually went and won the world championships. And like, it's something you can do and compete at. Doesn't matter what your age is. It's very cool. That's how big the sport has grown. So, yeah, I would say jiu jitsu is my number one recommendation. But of course, there's other things you can do. There's other things you can do. Like, if you. So here's something I've been doing that I find not only helps me mentally because of the physiological responses, but for the last few months, I live here in Maine. We have well water. I live on top of a mountain. It's. We have a deep well and like, it's cold. And so I've been taking cold showers for the last few months every morning. And not only is it exhilarating and it's like, good for your health, but, you know, it's, it's not just the fact that it releases norepinephrine and dopamine and you actually feel good, but you get to a point where, like, when, when, when I started, I was like, I don't want to fucking do this. I was like, I. You know, like, day two, I'm like, do I, I should just like, not do this? Like, no, Like, I like a nice warm shower. Like, nobody wants to take a cold, ice cold shower. Like 50 degrees, 48 degrees. Like, that's not comfortable. Like, it sucks. It's like you want to get out. It takes your breath when you start. Takes your breath away. It's not good. Like, it, it. You just, you try and think about every single reason why you shouldn't do it or, like, why you. I don't need to do this today. But if you force yourself to do that thing and push through that discomfort, it's just another level of understanding. Like, okay, I can push through this particular thing and then it becomes easy. So I would say just do hard things. Like, do things that are challenging, that aren't related to business. And, you know, of course, ones that also improve your health also help. Same thing with, like, sauna. I recommend people do sauna if they have the opportunity to do so.
- [45:42]
A
Awesome. Well, we'll wrap there. Brian, this was amazing, man. Thank you so much for your time. Hey, founder fam. Thank you so much for tuning in today and if you enjoyed this episode, please take the time to leave us a review and let us know what you think. This podcast is 100% free. We work so hard to go out and find the most successful entrepreneurs and founders in the world. Your feedback helps us grow, improve, and even bring on more incredible guests and insights. So if you have a second, please take a moment. Leave us a review. It really makes a difference. Thanks again for listening and I'll catch you on the next show.