A (3:24)

So was Tesla, like, Tesla is massive. The Tesla app is massive. So many people use it. Like, tell me, did was this your first business?

B (3:35)

No, my first business was. I mean, like I said, I started a lot of little things. But then I started. I became a photographer, and that was really my first business. I learned how to work with clients, like, please people, you know, all those kinds of things. And then, you know, fast forward all the way to, like, when my husband and I started working together. We started a million businesses, but never really succeeded at all other than, like, a few sales. But our true, true first business was collage kits, which was, like, art prints that you sell and you put on your walls. And that was kind of like. We had moved to New York City, just the two of us, and I had. I was a freelance photographer. He was a app developer working at a company that he was deferring his salary, so he had, like, basically no income. And I remember we got a notification like, you have negative dollars in your bank account. And I was like, cute, cute, cute. Okay, we're going to need to figure out how to make some money. So we were coming up and starting and trying so many different things, and we would just hang collage, like, magazines on our walls, and people would be like, how did you do this? And I didn't come up with the idea of collaging a magazine on your wall, of course, but I was like, wait, people still don't feel like they can do this themselves? I could curate this experience for them. I take so many photos. Like, I could make this a product. And so the collage kit was born, and that was, like, a physical product. Our first kind of, like, true product that we still actually sell today.

A (5:12)

Yeah, that's cool. So what happened next? Had Tezza start. Talk me through her.

B (5:18)

I mean, truly, like, if I take it all the way back, you know, let's take it back to the beginning. I was in art school, and it was social media was really starting to take off. I'm talking, like, Instagram came out okay. And of course, everyone in art school was like, this is the worst thing ever. Everyone thinks they're a photographer now. And I was like, no, you know, I see something different. People are caring in a way they haven't cared before. And I grew up, obviously, in this family of amazing entrepreneurs and artists who never questioned if that was a successful path for me. And I realized it was a lot of people's. They didn't have that experience. People told them they weren't creative, they couldn't succeed. Like, what do you really want to do? You know, Creativity was not accepted at all in this era, and I felt like it was my mission to give people that gift, to discover the artist that is inside all of us. Because I truly believe everyone has some form, some form of creativity. And I mean, to take it a little deeper. I also played in a band at the time, and my husband was my bass player. But before that, my sister and I played in a band. We toured. We did the whole. The whole thing together. And she actually passed away suddenly. It was, like, a very tragic experience. Thank you. I was 19, she was 17. And we were, like, best friends. You know, at that age, you feel like you know what you want, you know what you're going after. I mean, we were so driven to be these musicians and build this life together, and it felt like everything was taken away from me. And my sister was, like, this incredible dreamer, and she had, like. After she passed, I found a list in her room, and it was like, 100 things I want to do before I die. And it was crazy. I'm like, who writes that a 17. You know, I haven't even written my list today. I need to. But she had on there, like, play a show in front of thousands of people. Like, just basically everything was about following her dreams. And I was kind of shy at the time. I was kind of more the. Even though I was the older sister, I was kind of the one behind the scenes. And I just felt this immense responsibility to seize the moment and treat every day like a gift and not waste another minute on waiting what tomorrow's gonna bring, but going after what I actually wanted to do. And so that kind of really, I think, was. What was the fire behind? I mean, is the fire behind everything that I do today? I. I truly believe that, like, every day is a gift, and you need to chase your dreams and go after it, you know? So when I met my husband, we kind of, like, found this creative Magic together. I, I was always a creative on my own. But like when you can find creative synergy with somebody else, I think there can be something really beautiful because you're bringing two different perspectives to one. And that's really kind of like why everything's happened today. I can't take credit for it myself because of course I love it and I'm the one curating the experience and I'm the creator behind the brand. But my husband is extremely creative and no one would consider him creative. Right. He's kind of the behind the scenes guy. But he was the person that I wanted to go after to say like, oh my gosh, like no one told you you were creative, but like, look at all that he's doing now, all that he's building. And so together we've been able to kind of find success in that.

A (9:08)

Yeah, you said something interesting around when two creative people when they just jam really well together. And you brought me back to like when I first started founder, I went through quite a few different magazine designers and then I found Karen. Similar story to you. You guys like bootstrapping, couldn't afford it. And you know, to do a proper magazine like properly, properly, properly would cost tens of thousands of dollars. And I had like such a shoestring budget. It was a digital magazine, right. And on the App store, Google Play store. And I never forget, like he was the more expensive choice and I think it was only like 500, 600 US dollars or 800 US dollars per edition. And I said to him, man, I don't know about these costs. Like it seems too expensive to me for this business. I'm like, I'd not get on any money coming in yet. And he said, look Nathan, I know I might be more expensive than other designers, but if you place an emphasis on design for your brand and you know, spend that little bit of money, that extra money up front, it will pay. It might seem expensive now, but it will pay its way weight in returns. And he was so right because I was able to build the founder brand over time to make it unique, different. And he was like a driving force and there was this magic when we worked together. We used to create the coolest stuff. We don't work together anymore, obviously, you know, we've got a full time team and all this kind of stuff. But like you brought me back like when you find that person or that person you collaborate with, kind of like, you know, Steve Jobs and Johnny, I've like, they had this magic when it came to creativity and just Creating cool shit. And it sounds like that's what you've had with your husband Cole.

B (11:09)

A thousand percent. I do think it's like a lot of people look at the one person, right? Like the Steve Jobs, but there is somebody that's kind of tugging and pulling at that, that really can really bring the true beauty out in something. And I think, like, people that are just trying to start out or you feel alone, like maybe that is the one thing you. You need to be starting with is finding somebody that can like, give you the life of the areas that you feel are. Are lacking, you know, or make you believe in what you are actually doing. Because sometimes you feel alone in it. I don't know.

A (11:46)

Yeah, yeah. Look, I think it's. It's a whole other topic in of itself, how to choose the right co founder. I. I started a business with my now ex. I personally would rec. Would do it again. And it's a tough one, but that's.

B (12:00)

A whole other battle.

A (12:02)

Yeah, but look, talk me through just for. So people have an idea of size of this business, how many downloads, revenue, you bootstrap the business. Talk me through.

B (12:15)

Oh, man. You know me. I'm so like, truly, for me, I stay out of all of that. No, I know what it is, but I can. I. So I'm going to botch the numbers on this, but for me, I have to stay. I still feel like I'm just like the girl in my little apartment starting the brand and I'm focused on like every little single person. But, oh, I mean, how many downloads? I feel like I need to ask Cole. I know we've had like over 25 million downloads. We'll. We'll throw that out. We're doing around. You know, last year I think we did around 38 million. So we'll see where we end up this year. We've been around for seven years. We have about 15, 16 employees, and we're bootstrapped.

A (13:02)

Yeah, yeah. Great business, Great business. So how'd you come up with the idea like this Started as a passion project. Right.

B (13:10)

It's truly like my truest passion. But, yeah, my husband and I, so we moved to New York and we were just trying to start a million different things. My online social presence at the time, and I'm talking I had like, you know, 20, 30,000 followers. It wasn't massive, but I was speaking to these new people on the Internet that were trying to figure out how can I take beautiful pictures and participate in this, like, new wave of social media? And so I was helping people understand that. I wrote a book called Insta Style that was about how to work with brands and take better pictures. And I was peeling back the curtain on everything because I was like, if I can do this and I'm new and nobody, like, we can all do it. And I really believed in that. I sold online, like Lightroom presets and I kind of watched like the look of the Internet change, right for the pro photographer. It was like people took my special sauce and made it their own. And I watched everyone, like kind of take on this new role of being a pro photographer. But there were so many people just so mad at me because they weren't going to edit in Lightroom, they weren't going to take a photo on their dslr. And so people were begging me to make something easier. And I looked at the apps at the time and it was really, truly just all very tech based. Bill by bunch of dudes, no offense, we love the dudes. But there was nothing speaking to that creator space. There was nothing speaking to the women that were like, coming up in the space, owning advertising, making all the ads for these brands, and nothing that felt as fun as the act of creating. And I was like, there's gotta be something better out there that feels like a brand, not just an app on your phone. And really the goal from the beginning, and the goal now was not just to build an app, but to build this, this world, this creative universe. And so I was so fortunate that I married a developer. And we just thought we were silly enough to think we could build an app. And I don't think we were thinking, oh, we're going to take over the app store and be the next biggest app. I mean, I think my husband's deepest wishes were that, but mine were just like building a cool brand. And so we, for like a year and a half, like every night to like 3:00am, we would just be grinding on this app, trying to make it just the two of us. We designed everything and we tested everything in it. It was all built by us. And we launched seven years ago and here we are today. So it's kind of crazy because I think we, we really did build the community first. We didn't just build, you know, the tech and hope people to come. Like, we were curating a community of people that were super interested in what we were building and we were building it for them. For me, I was a creator in the space as well. So I was always coming with that lens, like, how can I make this easier for everyone? How can I make it approachable? How can I make it pro enough for the person who's doing this as a career and inviting enough for someone that's like, I want to dip my.

A (16:07)

Toes and tell me. You said you built the community first. You didn't just build an app and then launch it or build a product, then launch it, which is what most people do. How did you do that? Talk us through that?

B (16:23)

I was extremely. Just. I mean, social media is just. It's in your pocket. You can talk to anyone. All the time. I was heavily talking to people through DMs, through, like, commenting back to people. People were emailing me. I was meeting up with people in person. I was truly going the extra mile on figuring out how I could help people create in a better and easier way and building that trust. I think people felt like at the time, nobody was talking about, you know, now it's a different ballgame. But at the time, it was like how your social media feed looked was your brand, and no one was sharing that, but I was like, I'm going to share that. And then what else do you guys want? I will help you create it and let me create it for you. And I was bringing them in on the experience, and so they definitely felt loyal and like they were building it with us, which I think was really a big part of the growth.

A (17:19)

And when did you start that process?

B (17:22)

2016. And then we launched the app in. I mean, really, I've been starting it for a long time, if I'm being real, because I've been on. I was blogging, I was a musician. It's all, like. It was all speaking to the same world that I was building. When did we launch the app? 2017. So it sounds like not that long, but, I mean, it was years. It was years.

A (17:50)

So you started talking about the app when, what you and Cole were building at least 6 to 12 months before you released it?

B (17:59)

Definitely, yeah. I think the app, like, only came out about eight months in. We cried and we were like, this isn't working. We can't do it. Like, this is. This was a dumb idea. And we had gotten it so far, but it was just, you know, and we didn't even think. We were just young kids. Like, we just didn't even think to try and hire somebody or try and bring someone else in. It was just our thing. Like, I didn't really even understand business to that level at that age, which I think now, like, you have such an opportunity to obviously collaborate or bring people in, but There is something to bootstrapping your business, understanding your community, exactly what they want, exactly how they're going to talk about your product, what works, what doesn't, you know, because for the first four years of launching the app, we didn't run a single ad. We didn't pay for anything. It was all strictly organic.

A (18:56)

Did you look at any other apps in the design creative space that was similar to what you guys were building, the first version of Tesla? Or did you truly just build from conception what you had in your head and playing around and, like, Yeah, I.

B (19:17)

Mean, I think we definitely looked at other apps. Like, there was no question. We were like, okay, so what's out there? How are they doing it? And how can we bring a different experience? And we had, you know, in our app, we had guides, like, places you could shoot, how you could pose, brands you could work with, creators you could connect with. Like, we really wanted to build a world and we wanted it to feel punchy and fun. Like, the first version was bright red, big, bold text. It was fashion. It was, like, very feminine because no one was speaking to the women on the Internet. It was all, like, coming from this tech background, and we were like, this is not the people that are using this product. They're going to be people that are people today, which is the people that run the Internet and are working with all the brands and curating, like, the experience of how the Internet looks.

A (20:10)

And what's really cool is you guys. You guys kept it pretty small for a long time in terms of team and staff, right?

B (20:21)

Yeah, yeah, we're still a little too small, but we like it.

A (20:25)

Well, look, it's pretty impressive. You did 38 million with only 15 staff, like, revenue per employee. Like, that's a very healthy, profitable business. Like, it's pretty impressive. Was it. Was it really fast growing? Like, talk me through the first day of launch. Did you guys think it was gonna go really big because you were taking your community on a journey or what happened? Tell me. For the first day launch, the first.

B (20:51)

Day of launch, we were bawling and crying and we were like, delete it out of the App Store. Because this is where it's, like, good to hear. Because I think some people, like, there is benefit to being naive when you start a business because you just roll with the punches and you have to make moves quickly. But, for example, we were building not just an app, but a world. So, like, our subscription cost was maybe a little high, but we were coming from, like, the Lightroom preset pro world, which is where people would spend more money. So I think we charged, I want to say, 799 for a subscription. And if I didn't log into the App Store, I wouldn't have known. Like, the social media response was gorgeous and stunning. But then when I got into the App Store, the amount of people raging at me, acting like I was trying to rob them, it was just crazy. It was crazy. And I was like, okay, we need to delete the app. Like, this was a bad idea. We should have never done this. And then we. We just, like, kind of started talking to people, started talking to the community, and we were like, okay, we should change the pricing structure and go for a totally different demo. And it was just like, I don't know that we, you know, we were 24 and just kind of shooting from the hip. So that was really good. It was a time we should have listened to the community, because we did, and it worked out and we made it through. And then, you know, in the first year, we had over a million downloads and we had dedicated fans. We didn't have to run an ad because people were obsessed and so grateful for our product. They were sharing it left and right. And it was just such a beautiful thing to be able to have a product where you give someone so much that they feel so grateful they're going to do the work for you.

A (22:47)

And what I really love is you guys didn't just, like, pour the gasoline on the fire. Let's keep building. Let's scale this thing. You guys have made some strategic decisions, intentional decisions to keep the team lead lean and not, like, bloat and, you know, like, really try and grow. Like, what? Why is that? Why talk me through that?

B (23:13)

You know, I think, like, when you do bootstrap a business every dollar, you're, like, watching so closely and you don't feel like you can just take guesses, right? I think sometimes we do, obviously, but I think sometimes you can't just say, let's dump a bunch of money into this and hope that it works. We know what works because we've done it so slowly. And so it does actually support. Now that we do do paid ads or whatever, like, paid marketing things. We're able to say, like, we know that organic growth is supporting the, like, paid growth, because I think, like, when people see the. Or, like, the paid stuff come in, if they know the organic exists, it only supports the other. I also think, like, it just really helps you find your, like, your initial niche when you're launching. Because I think sometimes you're Thinking these are the people I want to get. This is the community I want to reach. And it's super broad. I still have. I still feel like I'm in that, you know, where I'm like, I see now seven years in, I'm like, okay, peel the onion back. Like, I went after what I knew really well and I knew how to market to this group of people, but now I see, like another group of people. And so I have to figure out how to organically work my way to those people rather than just like dumping ads and hoping that it works. And I feel like when you can organically find that connection with somebody, it will last longer and your retention is going to be better. And I feel like it's just such a healthier business.

A (24:51)

And when it comes to like resisting hiring for quite a few years, it was intentional, was there? Can you talk me through that?

B (25:02)

I mean, if I'm being super real. In the beginning, it was just like, we built this to be our business. We weren't like, we're going to build a business and sell it or we're trying to grow to be the next whatever million dollar business. We were like, this is our passion project. Can we make this our job? Can we support this community that actually really needs the product? And that was it. And so once we started growing at like such a rapid pace, we were, we were definitely needing to hire. But I think my husband and I, if I'm being honest, we're so passionate about it, we have a hard time letting go even to this day. So it's, you know, we want to do all the work. Like, I'm still writing the copy, I'm still approving everything that comes in, even though I know I need to let go of certain things. And going back to our initial conversation, you know, working with my husband and finding that beautiful synergy of creating together and being able to take something to the next level, like, I. That. That does definitely exist with employees and people on our team. And it's so cool. And so I've been loving experiencing that, but it is still a challenge for me.

A (26:12)

Yeah, look, I, I can resonate with that because when I started founder, similar journey, like passion project, didn't, I literally did not think it would be where it is today. And that's why I struggle with letting go, because I started this thing just to do work that I enjoyed because my previous career wasn't something I enjoyed. You were lucky, right? You had a career you enjoyed, but you want to just keep doing passion projects. So I Treated found a. Like, a passion project. I didn't know where it would go. I used to take that magazine on the iPad to job interviews. I didn't. I didn't think like most people think. Most people think when they start a business, right, and they go 10 years ahead, a couple of years ahead, and it can be this, it can be that. And I just. I literally didn't think that, like, my whole thing is same as you. Like, life is too short to not do work you don't enjoy. And so I can really relate to that. And, yeah, it's this kind of tricky battle when you have a business and it grows and you need more help, but you want to. You like to do the certain things, but, you know, it's. You probably shouldn't be doing it. And then you hire a few people, and then, you know, those people need support, and then it keeps growing, and then before you know it, that title CEO actually means something. And you actually have to learn how to hold people to account and set goals and have a clear vision. It's not just play, like, where are we going? People need direction. How can you, you know, help people, you know, do the best work of their careers and all these different things, which becomes this whole other thing. And I think that's a dichotomy that founders that truly love to just build and create, it's. It's a really challenging thing to work through. How have you worked through that?

B (28:06)

I'm still working through is so challenging. I think it's. You know, there's part of letting go and making room for the growth. I think when I'm feeling uncomfortable, I'm like, okay, this means we're going somewhere, and I have to let myself be in that. I do get fulfilled by my employees saying, like, I never felt like I got to be this creative in my life, and this job allows me to do things I never thought I could do, because that is part of, like, the mission of what I hope our users kill. You know, I want people to feel that creative. And so if I can do that for my company and create that culture, like, that does fulfill me in another way. But I. I am finally realizing, and this is, like, in the last month, okay, that in order for me to ever get back to being the creative person that I want to be, because we're always trying to get back to that. I think as creatives, you know, we're always like, wait, but I don't get to do this that I used to do. But there is a way to build process and to build teams around you that can do things that you can't do. And I think hiring the right people that can fill those voids and do, and you do the only things that you can do the best is the most important thing you can do for your company. So I am trying to like make those steps and I see, see the light where I'm chasing it. So I don't know, maybe you have tips. Tell me, what should I be doing?

A (29:48)

Oh look, we're all learning. It's a never, it's a never ending journey of, of learning. And I could probably another conversation, I could talk for days around getting that piece. Right.

B (30:00)

I'll call you, I'll call you after this. Yeah.

A (30:03)

So what advice would you give to founders that want to create an app? Right. That want to want to create something that is different in the marketplace, that they have an idea for an app. Because everyone has an app idea, right? Most people, you may say, yeah, I got an Apple idea. Right. Well, what advice would you give?

B (30:23)

You know, I, the advice I would have given five years ago is maybe different than the advice I would give today. And I think like we've come into a cool new space where building an app is maybe not as hard as it used to be because we have AI, we have, there are tons of great developers. So one, like if you just want to build an app and you don't know where to start, there are so many amazing developers that maybe could share your idea or your passion and you guys could, could work on something together. So I would recommend like finding someone you can team up with, maybe give equity to or maybe just you know, pay them to help help you start the business. And then on top of that, I would focus more on like what makes you different, what sets you apart, you know, for us, we've never thought about ourselves like software. I think of us like a beauty brand. And that's how I build our marketing. We almost do it reverse, right? Like we come up with because we're bootstrapped and we can't just dump a bunch of money into a feature and then pump it out and hope it reaches a bunch of people. I think how am I going to reach the people through the marketing? And what kind of feature am I going to build that's going to really connect? And how am I going to like do something that really touches differently on social media and that ties back to the product? And I feel like that's what helps growth. So I think like marketing is really important because we live in A time where there's just so much social media, so much in your face. And so how are you having a different point of view? If you're building an app, how can you connect it to a world that doesn't connect back? Just a tech, like, build something that makes people feel something, build that community, build that, like, strong affinity for your brand. I mean, how much time do we have? I could talk about so many ideas, but I just feel like the important thing truly is to, like, do something just a little bit different. It does, I think, like, you look at the world of like, beauty, right? And you look at road or you look at skims and it's like these brands that I obviously look up to because I'm a creator and I'm. I'm thinking about branding in that way. They launched with one really good product and they did marketing that was so different than any other thing, like doing the phone case or doing the photo booth things. Like, we're always trying to bring that in person, real life experience to our community because that's different than any of our competitors in the app space.

A (32:54)

What's been the most effective marketing campaign tactic or strategy that you guys have done that has really given Tezza just a step change in growth?

B (33:08)

In the early days, we, you know, none of our competitors were naming their effects or their filters based off of, like a real life thing. It was all very, you know, techie, a 4B6, whatever it was. And we brought like, experience to creating. So for example, if it was the first day of spring, we created something called Now I'm like forgetting what it was called anyway, so Wildflower. Yeah, that's what it was. Gosh, my brain. So we created something called Wildflower and then we built a whole, like, experience around that. Then we threw an event around that and it was just like, how can we keep inspiring you to want to create and coming back? And it actually, like, an interesting fact is a lot of our downloads are redownloads. People that have used the app before and then they come back again. And I think that's because, you know, the way we market is not just here. We're an app. We have a bunch of tools, we have a bunch of things. We're constantly like, thinking about what's culturally relevant. How can we keep you inspired and wanting to create and how can we, like, build an experience around something that you can do? So I think that, you know, not many people are going to want to go to an app event, but they like to come to ours because we they know we're going to curate and experience and inspire you to want to create with like minded people.

A (34:33)

Yeah. And from a marketing perspective, you've also done some interesting collabs.

B (34:38)

Yeah.

A (34:38)

What's been your favorite?

B (34:41)

Ooh, so many favorites. I mean, the 818 Club was really fun because it was Coachella. There were just thousands of people there wanting to create. And we created like an in person kind of photo booth experience that we would take people's photos. And then we created these two new effects and it was just so fun to watch, like over the whole weekend. People use these two effects that not only represented and curated 818's brand experience, but like, spoke to ours as well. And I think people have, like a trust for our brand. They know we're going to bring a brand's aesthetic to real to life in our app. So we've done things with like, Hourglass Cosmetics, the American Music Awards, Summer Fridays. So, so many brands. And I think that's really fun to see communities connect, like in real life and then also in the digital space. And everyone can participate.

A (35:38)

Yeah. What was your first collab?

B (35:41)

It was actually Summer Fridays.

A (35:42)

How'd that come about?

B (35:44)

So I'm friends with Mariana Hewitt, who's one of the founders of Summer Fridays. We've always just, you know, been social media friends. And she actually approached us and she was like, I have such a good idea. We should do a filter collab. Because everyone at Summer Fridays uses Tezza and it makes sense. Like, then the photos that they're posting for our brand can feel a little bit more like our brand if we can put our little brand stamp on it. And so we worked back and forth for months to create a filter that they felt like represented them. And it absolutely went viral. And it still is one of the most used presets today.

A (36:21)

Yeah. Crazy. And what advice would you give to founders looking to do collabs? Partnerships, tapping into other creators or brands, audiences to build and grow, especially in the early days, because some people will be watching this and they go, well, oh, well, hey, it was easy for you, right? Like, and I don't want people to think that because you can create something from nothing. Like, I started a digital magazine 12, 13 years ago. It cost me US$2,000. I was making 50,000 Australian dollars a year. And, you know, in the first few months, I got an interview with Richard Branson. Right. And I was a nobody. It was my first business. My, I had no connections whatsoever. I didn't know anyone that was a founder. I was Just genuinely curious about entrepreneurship. My. I don't come from an entrepreneurial family. My dad was a teacher, Mum was a nurse. But I was able to create something from nothing, right? And I don't want people to go, oh, well, it's easy. You're just friends with me. Like, so what advice would you give here? Because I think this is a key and important.

B (37:28)

This is key. You're right. I like this. I like this a lot. I mean, just to paint the picture clear, I moved to New York from Salt Lake City, Utah. I had $0 in my bank account. I remember two months in, I got a notification from my bank account, said, you have negative dollars in the bank account. And I was like, okay, okay. And my husband and I were just. I mean, we started a sock brand, a denim jacket brand. Things that were hideous. We were the most cringe people on the Internet, but we didn't care. We were just like, we're gonna. We're gonna figure it out, so don't worry. I wasn't cute, and it was fine. And people still wanted to talk. But that's another thing I was gonna say is, like, be as curious as possible. Message people, Go to lunch with people, coffee. Not everyone's going to say yes, but those people that were willing to say yes 10 years ago to me, I've watched so many of them start brands that are now some of the biggest brands today. And you're kind of always like, you're around the people you're going to work with and connect with in the next 20, 30 years. So just like, really curate, be nice, and, like, talk to as many people as you can. But anyway, if you're just like, I gotta collab with somebody because I'm trying to create something interesting that hasn't existed before. I think, like, as long as you can provide some sort of value, the amount of brands that message me today to do a collab with their small brand that they're just starting out, that I'm like, you know, they might think I'm not going to pay attention if they come to me with something really interesting, providing value, and say, look, I think this could be a really cool opportunity. Let me tell you why everyone's looking to do something different. We're all kind of like, I think we're in a time where there's more being posted on social media than ever before, and everyone's trying to figure out how to stand out, how to do something different. So if you can come up with a really good idea and pitch it to a Brand, a friend or creator. Like, people are probably going to be interested.

A (39:21)

Yeah. And you just got to keep trying. Right. Like, you can't get discouraged. Like, I just did a post on my social media posting the first edition of Founder, the magazine, and didn't even have a successful person on the front cover because no one would get back to me. And I didn't know what I was doing. Like, I had a stock image. Like, like, who does that? Like, it was just silly. Like, it's just silly.

B (39:45)

Like, you did it. I think that's also the big message there is that you just did it, you did it anyway. And the people that are just wishing and hoping we're never going to hear about it, but like the people that if you just do it and get it out, it's gonna be, it's gonna get better. Just like, don't hold onto it and wait and wait and wait. Get it out. That will teach you that you're one step closer to getting to some sort of success. And I think the more you make those moves and put yourself out there and figure out what's good about your idea, what's bad about it, like, the world will tell you and you can curate your experience and you can make it better as you go. It doesn't have to be perfect.

A (40:23)

Yeah, for sure. And I'm curious, like, obviously you said that you and Cole tried many other businesses. Each one of those businesses, did you have that same mindset that they would succeed?

B (40:37)

Well, yes, I always have the same mindset, hoping they will succeed. But one thing that's like, I, I think interesting that I reflect on a lot is if it doesn't work at first, it doesn't mean it's a bad idea. For example, with our collage kits, the first product we launched, it was a physical product. We lived in a 250 square foot apartment. We had boxes of these kits to the ceiling. It was just psychotic. And the amount of interest based off of like when I posted it and people are so excited about the product versus how many sold on the first day, we were like, oh, this was a bad idea, this was a flop and we should have never done this. And what we realized is just things take a lot of time, a lot of effort, a lot of marketing. And it wasn't until two years later after we launched that product that I was like, oh, this is actually a really good product and this was a good idea. So just because it doesn't work at first, don't give up. Like, I think things take a lot of time. And, and the failure means you're one step closer. Like, that's almost an exciting feeling to me now that I've had so many failures. I'm like, okay, this means we're, we're growing, we're getting closer to what's going to work. And you're just like, checking things off the list.

A (41:56)

You know, it's real. So you talked about, you know, success. You guys have an amazing business, an amazing brand, amazing company, clearly super profitable. But it wasn't always like that. Like you said, as a, as a founder, as a mother, as a creator. What season are you in in your life right now? Is it growth mode, preservation mode, or reinvention mode?

B (42:22)

Oh, good question. I think growth mode. I just feel this immense responsibility, truly for myself and for our community. And I feel like we're in, you know, I've been in social media long enough that I feel like I've been a part of many different shifts. And I feel like we're in a new shift where it's exciting. There are so many more creators, more creators, more entrepreneurs than there have ever been. People that, you know, can't survive without our app, that use it every day. And I'm really focused on like, okay, where is this going? How can I also support people? How can I also build a world that's so much bigger than what, what we started? And so I'm excited. I'm in growth mode.

A (43:10)

Okay, awesome. And what about, like, social media cycles? Right. Like, so you said you've, you've been around. I have too. Right. Like, I, I was, I thought, I didn't think I was early days Instagram with founder, but it turned out I was and really capitalize on that to build a brand. What's your spiciest prediction where creator culture is heading in the next five years?

B (43:39)

It's a great question. I want to hear yours. I think the people that, you know, we're going to have more, even more content, which is scary to kind of think about. I think if we're not like, careful. Well, I just think what's going to happen is we're the people who are going to be really, really intentional and create content that actually means something that can go a deeper level than just, you know, a singular post that is going to stand out and you're, you know, because we're going to get. People are going to want to get off social media. There's going to be too much. So how can you actually create something that has, like, deeper value, deeper meaning? How are you Shifting culture. And, you know, I think those people will also run all the biggest, best brands in the next five, 10 years. Because they're not just. And it's not just because they have a following. It's because I've seen people with a following try and start a brand. It doesn't necessarily mean you can start a good brand. It's because people that understand, like, the full picture and the umbrella of how to like, shift culture, get people excited, make a product that actually means something and can last, I think. I don't know. What's your prediction? I want you.

A (45:03)

All right, I'll tell you mine. So I remember when I was like, I said early days. I didn't think it was early days. Instagram, Instagram was around for like. So I started really, I guess, really growing. The founder found a brand through Instagram in 2025, and Instagram had already been around, I think, for four or five years, or at least three plus years, because I had an account for a long time and everyone was using it. But for some reason it. It was a thing for businesses, but nowhere near like it is now. It's like everything, right? And the best thing I ever did was I met a group of people that were like, similar, like how Mr. B started on YouTube. He met a group of other creators and they all helped each other grow. I did the same for founder. And so I. The reason I tell that story is because I, or sometimes I find myself through as I've done all this whole Internet stuff for the past 12, 13 years. I think that I'm late to the party, but I'm actually not. And same with podcasting. I started the founder podcast 10 years ago and I thought podcasts were hot and massive back then. And now everyone has a podcast, right? And it's only bigger. So the one that I see that I think is going to really kind of shake things up is live streaming. I think more and more as a creator, more and more as a brand, you need to look at how you can incorporate live streaming. And I think that is going to become more and more and more popular. And it feels like, oh, you know, there's some big creators in the live streaming space already. But I think that is just scratching the surface. And we'll find in the next three, four, five years it'll be a lot more popular. And I think that is kind of going to be something that create a cultural head because like you said, there's so many creators. How do you maintain attention? How do you take people on the journey at this stage, you know, you look at the next biggest, hottest platform, which is Tick Tock. It's, it's so raw, right? The, the next way you can get even raw on showing through social media and telling stories is through live streaming. It's purely candid, so it's not spicy, but it's, I think it's where it's going to go. Personally, I like it.

B (47:26)

I like it. I also have a hot take that I've been hearing from the younger, younger, like gen Alpha, that like aesthetic is back. So I feel like it's going to be like a blend of these worlds, right? Like, I feel like we're going to be kind of entering this really like, livestream, like you're sharing everything under the sun, but then you're, you have actually like a perspective, a really strong curated perspective that like the both these worlds meet and you kind of almost have to have both.

A (47:55)

Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. Okay, there you go. All right, so a couple last questions and we have to wrap AI because getting late for you as well. AI is shaking up creativity. Where do you see AI being useful in everything that you do as a creator without replacing the human magic?

B (48:19)

Yes, great question. I just feel like, you know, even for me in my day to day as a creator, as a founder, AI is going to take out so much of the grunt work, just, you know, importing the photos, sorting the photos, naming photos, sending them. There's just so much that's going to be like, improved in that space, which does excite me and I'm willing to accept that. But personally, and then also for Tesla brand, like, I never want to replace the human with AI or like take away from a curated human experience. Everything at Tesla is, and I do think this is kind of what sets us apart from a lot of our competitors, is that it is all curated. It's a curated experience. We don't want to have just thousands and millions of ways to edit, but it's curated by me and my team and it's intentional. And I think as long as like, art still has that intention, I think it will make it through exciting.

A (49:24)

All right, last question and we will wrap. Was there any question that you wanted me to ask you that I haven't. Is there anything that you're passionate about that you'd like to share, share with our community that you, you think is not talked about enough when it comes to building, growing a successful business?

B (49:45)

I think, you know, I hear a lot of people talk about raising money or Bringing people in or, you know, having to build $100 million business, it's like the focus is more on that than niching down. And building a small, really successful, profitable business is. Is amazing. And I've obviously experienced that myself. And I think a lot of people look at me like, well, when are you going to sell? When are you going to bring on more money? When are you going to do all these things? But you don't always have to think, I'm going to build this massive, massive brand you can build. Like, I've seen people build the most niche, interesting brands and they make millions of dollars and they're extremely successful. And I think, like, the more you niche down, the more you speak to it directly to a community, and you're the most passionate person in the room about it, you will find success. And I truly believe that because I have watched truly hundreds of people do this, and it just gets me excited. I feel like we're in a time where so many brands and so many people are going to do things that they're passionate about, and I feel like I can't wait to watch.

A (50:56)

Amazing. Well, Tezza Barton, thank you so much for your time giving back to our community. This was a fantastic interview, and I look forward to connecting further in the future.

B (51:08)

May as well. Thanks for having me. So great.

A (51:10)

All right, so if you love this episode, make sure to check out my interview with Alex Hormozi on how he scales companies from zero straight to $2 million a month in less than a year.

C (51:22)

We were like, have you achieved you cheap? But, like, there's five years of my life that disappeared. In fact, I lost all the money, which I talk about in the book. I had all the gyms, I did the turnarounds, and then I had $0 five years later because of mistakes that I made. But the things that I was gaining was not the money. It was the skills. It was the character traits and the beliefs.