610: (Solo) The Secret to Finding Agencies That Don’t Burn You

Summary

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The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan

Episode 610: (Solo) The Secret to Finding Agencies That Don’t Burn You
Release Date: December 2, 2025
Host: Nathan Chan

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Episode Overview

In this solo episode, Nathan Chan addresses a critical and frequently asked question in the entrepreneurial community: How do you find agencies, contractors, or freelancers who truly help your business rather than burn you? Drawing from over a decade of experience, Nathan shares candid stories, actionable strategies, and proven insights on identifying genuine partners who have your business’s best interests at heart. The episode is a practical guide for founders navigating the daunting process of hiring external talent, emphasizing the human aspect over merely the hard skills or flashy portfolios.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Real Challenge: Finding Partners Who Care

• Nathan explains that while skillsets and portfolios matter, what truly moves the needle is the character and mindset of the people you work with.
• On a daily basis, he receives 20–50 pitches from agencies and freelancers, highlighting how overwhelming and noisy the space has become.

  “People are always trying to sell me something. I reckon even more, maybe even 50 times. It's insane.” (02:14)

• He shares a recent positive experience with a small Conversion Rate Optimization (CRO) agency, chosen not for their flashy presentation but because the founder was “hungry, listened, and wanted to help Foundr win.”

  “What sold me was the person…their mindset, their hunger. They listened, they were thoughtful, they cared about our outcomes.” (03:00)

2. Story of Agency Partnership Success

• The small CRO agency’s work led to “tens and tens of thousands of dollars” in monthly revenue for Foundr, a result Nathan attributes not just to skill but to the personal trust and partnership established.

  “From just that one project, it's added tens and tens of thousands of dollars of revenue to the bottom line for our business per month. That's like serious ROI. But more than that, it's trust.” (03:16)

• Nathan notes that these great outcomes are rare and typically come from “true partnership,” not surface-level transactions.

3. Common Pitfalls with Agencies and Contractors

• Nathan has frequently experienced being “burnt” by unreliable or misaligned partners, echoing a pain felt by many founders.
• He cautions against focusing solely on portfolios, prices, or promises. Instead, prioritize evaluating honesty, self-awareness, and ownership in potential partners.

  “What you’re looking for is not perfect answers. You’re looking for honesty, self awareness, ownership.” (05:04)

• He shares a particularly frustrating story where, after an elaborate lunch and promising conversation, the agency ghosted him entirely.

  “I paid for lunch, he come and met me and... I never heard from him. Like it's a joke, right?” (05:35)

4. What to ACTUALLY Look For When Hiring

• Ask smart questions that reveal character, not just credentials:
  • How do you handle things when they go wrong?
  • Why do you want to work with me—do you care about our success?
• Probe for patterns BEFORE committing: Are they responsive? Do they follow through on what they say?
• Use test projects to assess skills and attitude in real-world scenarios.

  “If they're slow before you pay them, there’ll be worse after.” (06:25) “One of my rules is I trust the patterns I see before we ink the deal.” (06:30)

5. Where to Find Reliable Agencies & Contractors

• Referrals from trusted founders: Especially those who gain nothing from referring.

  “Referrals are gold. Ask other founders who don’t get a kickback for recommending them.” (06:43)

• Founder community: Leveraging networks and communities like Founder+ for vetted recommendations.
• Content Creators: Agencies and freelancers who produce teaching content often care about client outcomes.
• Specialized Platforms: Use sites like Behance and Dribbble for designers, Upwork for project-based hiring.
• Client References: Always ask to speak to past clients for honest feedback.

6. Guardrails and Red Flags

• Be wary of overpromises and exorbitant fees.
• Don’t hesitate to learn skills yourself if you can’t find trustworthy help.
• Focus not just on technical skills, but whether values, work ethic, and communication standards are aligned.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On the importance of character over portfolio:

  “It’s not just about the skill set. It’s not just about the output of the work. It’s really about the person behind that skill set.” – Nathan (01:42)

• On evaluating new agency partners:

  “Do whatever it takes to learn who the person is before you hire the company. Jump on a call, read between the lines, ask around, read reviews, ask if you can speak to other clients. Look at how they communicate, do they follow through?” (06:10)

• On referrals:

  “Referrals are gold. Ask other founders who don’t get a kickback for recommending them.” (06:43)

• On test projects and due diligence:

  “How can you test them? Like, you know, go on Upwork, speak to a few people, test them out, get them to prove themselves. Really, really, really key...” (07:36)

• On the value of peace of mind:

  “The upside isn’t just extra revenue, it’s peace of mind. And that is priceless.” (08:46)

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:05 – Framing the question: How do you actually find agencies/contractors that accelerate growth, not hinder it?
• 02:39 – Story of choosing an agency based on character, not flash.
• 03:16 – Results from the right partnership: Revenue growth and trust.
• 04:45 – Essential questions to ask potential partners.
• 05:26 – Cautionary tale: Being ghosted after a lunch meeting.
• 06:10 – Due diligence strategies before hiring.
• 06:43 – Where and how to find reliable partners (referral, community, platforms).
• 07:36 – Testing contractors before committing.
• 08:39 – Recap: Summary of the process and its impact.
• 08:46 – Core message: Peace of mind matters, not just financial ROI.

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Conclusion & Takeaways

Nathan’s central message is clear: The greatest impact comes not from working with the “biggest” agencies or the cheapest freelancers, but by finding people whose values, work ethic, and motivations are in sync with yours. Do the extra work up front to vet, communicate, and test—peace of mind and scalable results will follow.

“Hiring the right kind of contractor or agency can change the game for your business. But it’s not just about what they know, it’s about who they are as an individual... Do the work to find that out, have the conversation and look for signals.” (08:07)

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For more on hiring and scaling smart, check out the Founder+ Membership or connect with Nathan directly.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

E to get started.

[A]

All right, now let's jump back into the show.

[B]

Hey, founder fam. Nathan Chan here. Welcome back to another solo episode of the Founder to Founder podcast. These are short, bite sized lessons.

[C]

Me sharing everything I'm learning as I'm building and growing founder over the past decade.

[B]

So today I wanna share with you something that can really make or break your business growth. And it's something that I see asked a lot in our community and I've been speaking about it and thinking about it with some of my founder friends lately. And that's around how do you find the right people to work with, especially.

[C]

In the early days of your journey.

[B]

Or especially when you're looking to work.

[C]

With contractors, freelancers and agencies, hear the.

[D]

Stories, learn the proven methods and accelerate your growth and future through entrepreneurship. Welcome to the Founder podcast with Nathan Chan.

[B]

So whether you're hiring someone to run your ads, redesign your website, or even manage your customer support, it's not just about the skill set. It's not just about the output of the work. It's really about the person behind that skill set. And that's what today's episode is all about. It's how to find great third parties and how to filter out all the noise. Because I don't know about you guys, but I would get pitched probably, I kid you not, through my email, my.

[C]

LinkedIn, my Instagram DMs, even phone calls.

[B]

Probably at least 20 or 30 times.

[C]

A day, which is insane, right?

[B]

But people are always trying to sell me something. I reckon even more, maybe even 50 times. It's insane. People are always trying to sell me something. And some of these people are actually like, what they do is really, really good stuff. But here's the thing, right? I want to tell you a quick story right now. We are working with a agency and it's a small little shop. And this guy, he's really strong at.

[C]

Conversion rate optimization, landing pages, just online marketing. Not a massive agency, but just a really smart dialed in team. But it's a, you know, it's a.

[B]

Young K kid, right? And I'll be honest, I didn't choose.

[C]

To work with him because of his.

[B]

Flashy deck or website or portfolio. What sold me was the person that.

[C]

I was working with.

[B]

Their mindset, their hunger.

[C]

They didn't promise the world, they didn't.

[B]

Try to oversell me, they listened, they were thoughtful, they cared about our outcomes. But most importantly, they really wanted to.

[C]

See me and found a win.

[B]

And guess what? From just that one project, it's added tens and tens of thousands of dollars.

[C]

Of revenue to the bottom line for our business per month.

[B]

That's like serious roi. But more than that, it's trust. That's a true partnership here, right? So I really want to talk about this because I've worked with a lot of agencies, guys. I've been burnt by a lot of.

[C]

Agencies, I've been burnt by a lot of contractors.

[B]

And I think this episode will really help you. So let's talk about this. What do you need to look for?

[D]

What?

[C]

When you're looking to work with a contract or agency, most people ask, you know, how much experience do you have?

[B]

What's your rate? What's your cost? Can I haggle on price? Can I see a portfolio? And those questions are fine and are practical for when you're working on a project. But what it doesn't tell you is what that person's like to work with.

[C]

Are they going to be a person that delivers on time?

[B]

Are they going to be somebody that really goes above and beyond and really.

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Cares about you winning?

[B]

It's what I said before, right? It's how do you find someone that truly wants to see you win?

[C]

You know, I had a mentor share this with me. It was a conversation we had.

[B]

And then I reflected on this idea. How do we find contractors or agencies that really want to see us win? Like genuinely, genuinely want to see us win. And I've reflected on this and I look back at all the best relationships.

[C]

With agencies and contractors and that's always the case, right?

[B]

And so when I think about this, what questions should you ask to really find this out?

[C]

Right?

[B]

Because expectations may not align. You know, life can happen, but what is your process if something goes wrong? Asking a question like that, like that can speak volumes or like, why do you truly want to work with me.

[C]

Is it just for the money?

[B]

Like, why do you care? What you're looking for is not perfect answers.

[C]

You're looking for honesty, self awareness, ownership.

[B]

Because a contractor can have the best strategy in the world. But if they ghost you when things get tough, if they deliver crappy work, if they don't deliver on time, it's not meant to be. The values aren't aligned, right? There were some contractors that we were.

[C]

Looking to team up with and partner with and you know, they were talking big numbers and a big game and.

[B]

They were dragging things on and then eventually they ghosted us, right? And I've, I've had this happen before. Like I went out for lunch with a guy, he seemed really talented and he pitching me the world and I paid for lunch, I paid for lunch, he come and met me and. And then I never heard from him. Like it's a joke, right? Clearly not the person that I'd want to work with, not the person that I want to do business with. So I was thinking about this, like.

[C]

Another friend of mine, he's really kicking goals with his business at the moment.

[B]

And he's found somebody, an agency, small little shop, once again.

[C]

And this guy is just going above and beyond.

[B]

He's really trying to make a name for himself and he just really wants.

[C]

To see my friend win and his business win.

[B]

So if I had one piece of advice, it would be do whatever it.

[C]

Takes to learn who the person is before you hire the company.

[B]

Jump on a call, read between the lines, ask around, read reviews, ask if you can speak to other clients. Look at how they communicate, do they follow through? Are they responsive? If they're slow before you pay them, there'll be worse after.

[C]

One of my rules is I trust.

[B]

The patterns I see before we ink.

[C]

The deal, before we agree, not just the pitches.

[B]

And then the next thing you might be thinking was, Nathan, where, where do.

[C]

I find these great agencies or contractors?

[B]

Well, first and foremost, referrals are gold. Ask other founders who don't get a.

[C]

Kickback for recommending them.

[B]

That's why the founder+community is incredible. We have so many incredible founders in our community.

[C]

These recommendations are vetted. There's real skin in the game. I think another great place to find these awesome, awesome agencies or freelancers is.

[B]

Do they put out content?

[C]

Are you learning from them? Do you trust them? And when you do outreach, lead with clarity. Know your scope, know your budget, know what success looks like for your project, whatever that may be.

[B]

And look for niche, domain specific websites. So like, if you're looking for a.

[C]

Great designer, I really, really, really love Behance and Dribbble where people can share their work and you can reach out, have those conversations.

[B]

If you're looking for perhaps, let's just.

[C]

Say a great web developer, how can you test them? As an example, I love doing test projects. So how can you test them? Like, you know, go on upwork, speak to a few people, test them out, get them to prove themselves. Really, really, really key but fundamentally, if you can also as well, speak to other people that have used their services.

[B]

And do it carefully, spend a little.

[C]

Bit more time upfront to find that right person or agency.

[B]

And these agencies that promise the world don't believe them.

[C]

And if they want ridiculous amounts of money, do not pay them. Learn how to do it yourself. Or the alternative is find somebody that truly wants to see you win genuinely and the values are aligned. So just to recap guys, hiring the right kind of contractor or agency can change the game for your business. But it's not just about what they know, it's about who they are as an individual. Are your values aligned with them? Do they genuinely want to see you win? Do the work to find that out, have the conversation and look for signals.

[B]

Because when you get it right, like I did with this small little CRO.

[C]

Team and we're just, you know, just.

[B]

Starting this relationship, the upside isn't just.

[C]

Extra revenue, it's peace of mind. And that is priceless.

[B]

If you found this episode really helpful, you want to go deeper on things.

[C]

Like hiring and building a team and scaling. Smart Founder plus is our all access membership for e commerce founders where we go deep on it all.

[B]

You can check out more details like.

[C]

This link in the show notes go to founder.com forward/membership. Thanks for tuning in. If you are enjoying these episodes, let me know. Shoot me a DM Nathan Chan and I'll see you in another episode.