The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan

Episode 613: Why Most Beauty Brands Fail - and How to Beat The Rest | DIBS Beauty Founder Jeff Lee
Air Date: December 11, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Nathan Chan sits down with Jeff Lee, co-founder of DIBS Beauty, to uncover why most beauty brands fail and how DIBS achieved rapid, sustainable growth in a saturated cosmetics market. Jeff reveals DIBS' tactics for achieving a 60% repurchase rate in 90 days, the secrets behind their blockbuster waitlist launches, the essential role of relentless customer focus, the realities of launching in today's beauty industry, and the sometimes unglamorous—yet crucial—habits behind true entrepreneurship. This episode is a masterclass in premium beauty brand building, emphasizing extreme customer proximity, disciplined community-building, and the balance between founder hustle and scalable culture.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Reality of Fast-Growth Beauty Startups

(02:00–03:24)

Intense Work Ethic: Jeff shares that building DIBS demanded 120-hour work weeks, not for the sake of hustle culture, but because "if you're founding a company, you have to do every single job to some degree or be able to do it if someone else can't" (02:22, Jeff).
Culture of Perfection: DIBS enforces a "perfectionist" culture, believing that in a saturated market, "no brand has any excuse to exist… unless it's absolutely putting in the extra incremental 10 to 25% above the baseline job" (02:54, Jeff).

2. Epic Pre-launches & Building Hype

(03:24–09:42)

Waitlist Mastery: DIBS had a 20,000-person waitlist at launch. Later, they executed a 68,000-person waitlist for another SKU.
Scarcity & Storytelling: Success was due to a mix of excitement, scarcity, and narrative: “there was an element of excitement, an element of scarcity, but also enough storytelling… that people felt they were along for the ride” (03:49, Jeff).
Social-First Strategy: Nowadays, the real metric is user-generated content (UGC)—not just likes or shares. DIBS measures resonance by "how much UGC we see inspired by [our content]" (05:34, Jeff).
Community Seeding: Their first product launch relied heavily on creator relationships and local activation, starting in Austin, Texas, to validate authenticity.

3. Content, Creators, and ROI on Community

(07:05–08:47)

Creator Gifting Over Ads: For their initial launch, DIBS gifted products to around 500 trusted creators rather than spending heavily on ads: "We actually invest a lot more in the creator gifting than we do paid ads" (07:55, Jeff).
Multi-tier Creator Outreach: They deployed a pyramid approach, from major influencers to micro-creators, to spark both virality and niche community groundswell.

4. Product Development, MOQs, and Early Traction

(10:12–13:55)

Industry Knowledge is Key: Jeff’s industry pedigree helped secure favorable manufacturing and launch conditions.
Understanding the Customer: Co-founder Courtney Shields’ years of community-building ensured that “this is a customer that was very much in the heartland of America… and has specific problems we can solve in a differentiated way” (12:43, Jeff).
Conservative but Scalable Launch: They started with 10,000 units, quickly selling out and needing to scale up unexpectedly.

5. Blistering Revenue Growth and the Retail Imperative

(14:18–16:09)

700% YOY Growth: DIBS reached mid-eight-figure revenues within four years, achieving a top-15 ranking in Inc. 5000 consumer goods.
Strategic Retail Expansion: Moving from pure DTC to omnichannel was essential; Jeff warns newer brands that “there’s a lot more pressure to enter retail earlier in your cycle” today (15:33, Jeff).

6. Customer Obsession and the 60% Repurchase Rate

(16:41–19:16)

Relentless Retention: DIBS’ hero products are sized for a 90-day cycle, with steady newness to “surprise and delight.” Jeff emphasized, “my personal phone number is still floating out there and I get about 12-20 customer calls about their orders still” (17:48, Jeff).
Founder-Led Customer Support: Both co-founders routinely handle DMs and customer issues personally—core to building repeat loyalty.

Notable Quote:
“I like to joke she’s the first person in customer service and I’m the second.” (17:56, Jeff)

7. Founders and True Customer Proximity

(19:31–23:58; 24:07–25:22)

Never Assume: “You need to avoid… thinking that you are the customer.” (19:38, Jeff)
In-Store Anthropology: Jeff visits stores nationwide, covertly observing customers: “I’m frequently the guy, like, around the corner peeping at you, trying to see how you walked towards our display… I’m pretty sure I have been identified as a Nora [Need Officer Right Away] in at least 10 stores” (21:24, Jeff).
The “50-State Brand”: DIBS designs and markets “for the majority of America that has not had a brand speak to them… not just the coastal customer” (24:29, Jeff).

8. Omnichannel & Picking the Right Retail Partners

(25:22–27:20)

Retail Partnerships Must Align: Entering Revolve was strategic; success was fueled by week-long events, targeted activation, and congruent affinity between DIBS and Revolve’s fashion-forward consumer.

9. Community Building—Practiced “Comfortable Inauthenticity”

(27:20–33:56)

Early Community Investment: DIBS’ first major hire was a community manager; now, every team member is an ambassador.
Authenticity vs. Relatability: Jeff’s nuanced view: “If we were truly authentic, we would not have brands… For me, it’s actually more the concept of… comfortable inauthenticity, which is that you are giving the slice of yourself that allows people to connect” (29:25, Jeff).
Advice for Founders: “You had to be judicious with your time… But you had to pick and choose… the moments and the people that do count” (27:56, Jeff).

10. Founder Dynamics and Scaling From Within

(33:56–36:39)

Complementary Strengths: Co-founders focus on their superpowers—Courtney on creative/product/social, Jeff on business ops/strategy.
Letting Go: As the team grows, Jeff works to “train people to be the CEOs of their own domains,” admitting the challenge, “part of being effective is letting go and trusting your VPs… to manage slices of the business” (36:12, Jeff).

11. The Dark Side of Hypergrowth Entrepreneurship

(36:39–41:46)

Luck is Underrated: Jeff is candid about the major role luck plays: “So much of your success… is luck” (37:19, Jeff).
Personal Sacrifice: “Everything else falls by the wayside… I don’t have pets. I don’t have difficult plants to take care of. I can be on a plane at any given moment’s notice” (38:21, Jeff).
Resilience, Not Blind Optimism: “I felt despair and fear, but never giving up…” (40:46, Jeff).

12. Finding Joy and Fulfillment

(43:03–45:16)

The Joy of Team Growth: Jeff’s biggest satisfaction comes from “writing the promotion emails announcing when somebody has earned a title… watching single moms… advance beyond what you would ever expect them to do” (43:17, Jeff).
Family Connections: Entrepreneurship has brought him closer to his parents, who now care about sales numbers more than degrees.

13. AI & The Future of Discovery

(45:16–48:53)

Diversified Discovery: “Right now the battle for the next universal app, especially for discovery, is not over. We have no idea who it will be… But we’re doing what we can” (45:49, Jeff).
Authoritativeness Over Platform Chasing: DIBS prioritizes digital PR and getting featured by authoritative platforms over simply gaming algorithms.

Memorable Validation from Host Nathan:
“Focus on digital PR. So whatever platform becomes the discovery machine, it’s all going to be crawling the same stuff… so presence and authority will net—you can’t lose.” (48:53, Nathan)

14. Productivity and Avoiding Burnout

(50:17–51:31)

Sleep Mechanics: “15-minute naps work for me because I can stack them… Mastering your sleep schedule… is more important than any other input you can put into your well-being” (50:22, Jeff).
Rotating Board of Advisors: “Always have a rotating board of directors… Don’t call on the same five people year after year—rotate them in and out and pay the favor forward” (50:40, Jeff).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“No brand has any excuse to exist… unless it’s absolutely putting in the extra incremental 10 to 25% above the baseline job.”
— Jeff Lee (02:54)
“My personal phone number is still floating out there and I get about 12-20 customer calls about their orders still.”
— Jeff Lee (17:48)
“If we were truly authentic, we would not have brands… For me, it’s actually more the concept of… comfortable inauthenticity.”
— Jeff Lee (29:25)
“So much of your success… is luck.”
— Jeff Lee (37:19)
“Everything else falls by the wayside… I don’t have pets. I don’t have difficult plants to take care of. I can be on a plane at any given moment’s notice.”
— Jeff Lee (38:21)
“I have never felt this compunction… You have to love it for the game, right? Like you have to love it for the journey. Otherwise what’s the point?”
— Jeff Lee (41:46)

Key Timestamps

02:00 – Startup reality: 120-hr weeks, culture of perfection
03:49 – Waitlist building: anticipation and scarcity
05:20 – Social-led launches, new key metrics (UGC)
07:05 – Community and creator-first growth vs. ads
10:12 – Jeff’s founder journey, meeting Courtney Shields
14:18 – Revenue milestones & entering retail
16:41 – 60% 90-day repurchase rate and founder-led customer service
19:31 – Extreme customer proximity in-store
24:07 – “50-state brand” philosophy
25:22 – Retail case study: entering Revolve
27:56 – Building early community, treading the line of relatability
33:56 – Founder roles and letting go as team scales
36:39 – The dark side: luck, sacrifice, resilience
43:03 – Finding fulfillment in team growth and family
45:16 – AI, PR & the discovery paradigm shift
50:17 – Productivity hacks: sleep and “rotating board of directors”

Tone & Style

Candid, direct, sometimes irreverent: Jeff Lee is honest about the industry, startup grind, “founder myths,” and the performative nature of modern branding and community.
Practical & strategic: Plenty of step-by-step tactics punctuated by hard-earned lessons.

Conclusion

This episode delivers a rare, unfiltered look inside a breakout beauty brand, demonstrating that disruptive success is driven by customer obsession, founder proximity, measured risk-taking, judicious use of technology, and an unapologetically disciplined culture. Entrepreneurs will find specific tactics for building massive anticipation, raising repurchase rates, cultivating a sticky community, and thriving in both the joys and sacrifices of high-growth ventures.

The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan

Episode 613: Why Most Beauty Brands Fail - and How to Beat The Rest | DIBS Beauty Founder Jeff Lee
Air Date: December 11, 2025

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Reality of Fast-Growth Beauty Startups

(02:00–03:24)

Intense Work Ethic: Jeff shares that building DIBS demanded 120-hour work weeks, not for the sake of hustle culture, but because "if you're founding a company, you have to do every single job to some degree or be able to do it if someone else can't" (02:22, Jeff).
Culture of Perfection: DIBS enforces a "perfectionist" culture, believing that in a saturated market, "no brand has any excuse to exist… unless it's absolutely putting in the extra incremental 10 to 25% above the baseline job" (02:54, Jeff).

2. Epic Pre-launches & Building Hype

(03:24–09:42)

Waitlist Mastery: DIBS had a 20,000-person waitlist at launch. Later, they executed a 68,000-person waitlist for another SKU.
Scarcity & Storytelling: Success was due to a mix of excitement, scarcity, and narrative: “there was an element of excitement, an element of scarcity, but also enough storytelling… that people felt they were along for the ride” (03:49, Jeff).
Social-First Strategy: Nowadays, the real metric is user-generated content (UGC)—not just likes or shares. DIBS measures resonance by "how much UGC we see inspired by [our content]" (05:34, Jeff).
Community Seeding: Their first product launch relied heavily on creator relationships and local activation, starting in Austin, Texas, to validate authenticity.

3. Content, Creators, and ROI on Community

(07:05–08:47)

Creator Gifting Over Ads: For their initial launch, DIBS gifted products to around 500 trusted creators rather than spending heavily on ads: "We actually invest a lot more in the creator gifting than we do paid ads" (07:55, Jeff).
Multi-tier Creator Outreach: They deployed a pyramid approach, from major influencers to micro-creators, to spark both virality and niche community groundswell.

4. Product Development, MOQs, and Early Traction

(10:12–13:55)

Industry Knowledge is Key: Jeff’s industry pedigree helped secure favorable manufacturing and launch conditions.
Understanding the Customer: Co-founder Courtney Shields’ years of community-building ensured that “this is a customer that was very much in the heartland of America… and has specific problems we can solve in a differentiated way” (12:43, Jeff).
Conservative but Scalable Launch: They started with 10,000 units, quickly selling out and needing to scale up unexpectedly.

5. Blistering Revenue Growth and the Retail Imperative

(14:18–16:09)

700% YOY Growth: DIBS reached mid-eight-figure revenues within four years, achieving a top-15 ranking in Inc. 5000 consumer goods.
Strategic Retail Expansion: Moving from pure DTC to omnichannel was essential; Jeff warns newer brands that “there’s a lot more pressure to enter retail earlier in your cycle” today (15:33, Jeff).

6. Customer Obsession and the 60% Repurchase Rate

(16:41–19:16)

Relentless Retention: DIBS’ hero products are sized for a 90-day cycle, with steady newness to “surprise and delight.” Jeff emphasized, “my personal phone number is still floating out there and I get about 12-20 customer calls about their orders still” (17:48, Jeff).
Founder-Led Customer Support: Both co-founders routinely handle DMs and customer issues personally—core to building repeat loyalty.

Notable Quote:
“I like to joke she’s the first person in customer service and I’m the second.” (17:56, Jeff)

7. Founders and True Customer Proximity

(19:31–23:58; 24:07–25:22)

Never Assume: “You need to avoid… thinking that you are the customer.” (19:38, Jeff)
In-Store Anthropology: Jeff visits stores nationwide, covertly observing customers: “I’m frequently the guy, like, around the corner peeping at you, trying to see how you walked towards our display… I’m pretty sure I have been identified as a Nora [Need Officer Right Away] in at least 10 stores” (21:24, Jeff).
The “50-State Brand”: DIBS designs and markets “for the majority of America that has not had a brand speak to them… not just the coastal customer” (24:29, Jeff).

8. Omnichannel & Picking the Right Retail Partners

(25:22–27:20)

Retail Partnerships Must Align: Entering Revolve was strategic; success was fueled by week-long events, targeted activation, and congruent affinity between DIBS and Revolve’s fashion-forward consumer.

9. Community Building—Practiced “Comfortable Inauthenticity”

(27:20–33:56)

Early Community Investment: DIBS’ first major hire was a community manager; now, every team member is an ambassador.
Authenticity vs. Relatability: Jeff’s nuanced view: “If we were truly authentic, we would not have brands… For me, it’s actually more the concept of… comfortable inauthenticity, which is that you are giving the slice of yourself that allows people to connect” (29:25, Jeff).
Advice for Founders: “You had to be judicious with your time… But you had to pick and choose… the moments and the people that do count” (27:56, Jeff).

10. Founder Dynamics and Scaling From Within

(33:56–36:39)

Complementary Strengths: Co-founders focus on their superpowers—Courtney on creative/product/social, Jeff on business ops/strategy.
Letting Go: As the team grows, Jeff works to “train people to be the CEOs of their own domains,” admitting the challenge, “part of being effective is letting go and trusting your VPs… to manage slices of the business” (36:12, Jeff).

11. The Dark Side of Hypergrowth Entrepreneurship

(36:39–41:46)

Luck is Underrated: Jeff is candid about the major role luck plays: “So much of your success… is luck” (37:19, Jeff).
Personal Sacrifice: “Everything else falls by the wayside… I don’t have pets. I don’t have difficult plants to take care of. I can be on a plane at any given moment’s notice” (38:21, Jeff).
Resilience, Not Blind Optimism: “I felt despair and fear, but never giving up…” (40:46, Jeff).

12. Finding Joy and Fulfillment

(43:03–45:16)

The Joy of Team Growth: Jeff’s biggest satisfaction comes from “writing the promotion emails announcing when somebody has earned a title… watching single moms… advance beyond what you would ever expect them to do” (43:17, Jeff).
Family Connections: Entrepreneurship has brought him closer to his parents, who now care about sales numbers more than degrees.

13. AI & The Future of Discovery

(45:16–48:53)

Diversified Discovery: “Right now the battle for the next universal app, especially for discovery, is not over. We have no idea who it will be… But we’re doing what we can” (45:49, Jeff).
Authoritativeness Over Platform Chasing: DIBS prioritizes digital PR and getting featured by authoritative platforms over simply gaming algorithms.

14. Productivity and Avoiding Burnout

(50:17–51:31)

Sleep Mechanics: “15-minute naps work for me because I can stack them… Mastering your sleep schedule… is more important than any other input you can put into your well-being” (50:22, Jeff).
Rotating Board of Advisors: “Always have a rotating board of directors… Don’t call on the same five people year after year—rotate them in and out and pay the favor forward” (50:40, Jeff).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“No brand has any excuse to exist… unless it’s absolutely putting in the extra incremental 10 to 25% above the baseline job.”
— Jeff Lee (02:54)
“My personal phone number is still floating out there and I get about 12-20 customer calls about their orders still.”
— Jeff Lee (17:48)
“If we were truly authentic, we would not have brands… For me, it’s actually more the concept of… comfortable inauthenticity.”
— Jeff Lee (29:25)
“So much of your success… is luck.”
— Jeff Lee (37:19)
“Everything else falls by the wayside… I don’t have pets. I don’t have difficult plants to take care of. I can be on a plane at any given moment’s notice.”
— Jeff Lee (38:21)
“I have never felt this compunction… You have to love it for the game, right? Like you have to love it for the journey. Otherwise what’s the point?”
— Jeff Lee (41:46)

Key Timestamps

02:00 – Startup reality: 120-hr weeks, culture of perfection
03:49 – Waitlist building: anticipation and scarcity
05:20 – Social-led launches, new key metrics (UGC)
07:05 – Community and creator-first growth vs. ads
10:12 – Jeff’s founder journey, meeting Courtney Shields
14:18 – Revenue milestones & entering retail
16:41 – 60% 90-day repurchase rate and founder-led customer service
19:31 – Extreme customer proximity in-store
24:07 – “50-state brand” philosophy
25:22 – Retail case study: entering Revolve
27:56 – Building early community, treading the line of relatability
33:56 – Founder roles and letting go as team scales
36:39 – The dark side: luck, sacrifice, resilience
43:03 – Finding fulfillment in team growth and family
45:16 – AI, PR & the discovery paradigm shift
50:17 – Productivity hacks: sleep and “rotating board of directors”

Tone & Style

Candid, direct, sometimes irreverent: Jeff Lee is honest about the industry, startup grind, “founder myths,” and the performative nature of modern branding and community.
Practical & strategic: Plenty of step-by-step tactics punctuated by hard-earned lessons.

613: Why Most Beauty Brands Fail - and How to Beat The Rest | DIBS Beauty Founder

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Summary

The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Reality of Fast-Growth Beauty Startups

2. Epic Pre-launches & Building Hype

3. Content, Creators, and ROI on Community

4. Product Development, MOQs, and Early Traction

5. Blistering Revenue Growth and the Retail Imperative

6. Customer Obsession and the 60% Repurchase Rate

7. Founders and True Customer Proximity

8. Omnichannel & Picking the Right Retail Partners

9. Community Building—Practiced “Comfortable Inauthenticity”

10. Founder Dynamics and Scaling From Within

11. The Dark Side of Hypergrowth Entrepreneurship

12. Finding Joy and Fulfillment

13. AI & The Future of Discovery

14. Productivity and Avoiding Burnout

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Key Timestamps

Tone & Style

Conclusion

Summary

The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Reality of Fast-Growth Beauty Startups

2. Epic Pre-launches & Building Hype

3. Content, Creators, and ROI on Community

4. Product Development, MOQs, and Early Traction

5. Blistering Revenue Growth and the Retail Imperative

6. Customer Obsession and the 60% Repurchase Rate

7. Founders and True Customer Proximity

8. Omnichannel & Picking the Right Retail Partners

9. Community Building—Practiced “Comfortable Inauthenticity”

10. Founder Dynamics and Scaling From Within

11. The Dark Side of Hypergrowth Entrepreneurship

12. Finding Joy and Fulfillment

13. AI & The Future of Discovery

14. Productivity and Avoiding Burnout

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Key Timestamps

Tone & Style

Conclusion