The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan – Episode 621

"We Bet $200K on Bras Before Making a Single Sale — Sold 400,000 in 2 Years | Nala"

Release Date: January 8, 2026
Guests: Chloe and Phil De Winter, Co-Founders of Nala

Episode Overview

In this candid and insightful episode, Nathan Chan interviews Chloe and Phil De Winter, co-founders of the Australian intimates brand, Nala. The couple recounts their journey from investing $200,000 in their first bra order before making any sales, to selling over 400,000 pieces in just two years. They break down their product validation methods, creative guerrilla marketing tactics, overcoming industry hurdles, and how a bold focus on inclusivity and customer experience led to rapid, sustainable growth—all without raising outside capital.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Identifying the Opportunity and Launching Nala

• Personal Need as Inspiration:
  Chloe, a physiotherapist, struggled to find bras that were “comfortable, sustainable, affordable, but also cool,” motivating the couple to address a clear market gap for Australian women (03:04).

• Unconventional Backgrounds:
  Neither Chloe nor Phil had prior fashion industry experience—Chloe ran an online Pilates business, and Phil's background was in sports tech (02:10-03:04).

“Never thought we’d end up here, to be honest…” – Chloe (02:10)

• Product Validation:
  • Leveraged Chloe’s Pilates audience (~5,000 women) for initial surveys.
  • Only ~250 responses—yet with strong, universal complaints: need for a wire-free bralette for bigger busts; demand for a comfortable strapless bra (05:32-06:44).
  • Survey insights directly shaped the initial product roadmap.

“Out of a survey like that, OK, call it 250. It’s not a huge pool…but there was quite a universal response.” – Chloe (05:32)

• Massive First Investment:
  High minimum order quantities (MOQs) in intimates forced an upfront investment of $200,000 for the first order (03:27-04:55).

• All-in Mentality:
  The couple’s previous businesses and family support enabled the risk.

  “We were in a good position to take that kind of risk. I wouldn’t necessarily recommend that’s what every founder should go and do.” – Phil (07:59)

2. Design, Product Development, and Sizing

• Technical Complexity:
  Quickly learned bra design is intricate. Outsourced to experienced technical designers and built a team of diverse fit testers (09:33-11:56).

• Extreme Sizing Inclusivity:
  Their lead product (wire-free bralette) now comes in 71 sizes, soon to be 75 (09:51).

  “Creating a bra across so many sizes is so challenging…That’s why there aren’t more bra businesses out there.” – Chloe (09:37)

3. Launch, Guerrilla Marketing, and Early Growth

• Innovative Guerrilla Campaign:
  • Distributed branded G-strings on hundreds of cars in Bondi with cheeky notes:

    “Wild thing, you left this at my place last night. xx Nala.” (13:02-13:10)

  • The stunt went viral on local Facebook groups, was picked up by the Daily Mail, and resulted in massive awareness (13:02-14:50).

“People were writing hilarious comments like, ‘You almost caused me a divorce,’ which is hilarious but also great.” – Chloe (13:10)

• Influencer Seeding:
  Sent out hundreds of product packages, leveraging low cost of goods and shipping (12:24).

• Launch Numbers:

  • Friends & Family Day: just under $10,000 in sales (17:37).
  • First public launch day: $5,500 in sales, immediate traction (18:13-18:22).

  “We never had that day where we were scratching around being like, is anyone going to order? From the first day, we had this momentum…” – Phil (13:47)

• Early Customer Validation:
  Influencers placed repeat orders post-gifting, proving strong product-market fit (18:34).

4. Marketing Spend, Growth Metrics, and Operations

• Aggressive Marketing Spend:
  Spends 30% of revenue on marketing, justified by high LTV and 70% repeat customer rates (26:55-27:27).

  “Never want to lose money on a first-time purchase…Knowing that we’ve got a really loyal customer base.” – Phil (27:27)

• Inventory Management Pains:
  Early stockouts of bestseller lines were a major challenge, with slow replenishment cycles (~4 months from order to warehouse) (23:49-25:47).

• Strategic Use of Advisors:
  Sought experienced advisors for oversight, strategic input, and checks on entrepreneurial enthusiasm (42:49-44:24).

5. Product Experience & Personalization

• Game-Changing Fit Guide:
  Created an online tool featuring 100 bare chests of different sizes/shapes, helping customers visually identify the right products (29:20-32:10).
  • Captures valuable first-party data to drive hyper-personalized recommendations.

“Our brand is all about welcoming all different shapes and sizes…and what better way than with bare naked boobs in your face of all different sizes.” – Chloe (31:18)

6. Platform Challenges and Industry Double Standards

• Social Platform Bans:
  TikTok permanently banned Nala’s account over “policy violations” relating to body representation and visible nipples. Undeterred, the founders hustled with reps and networked aggressively to regain access (32:10-33:55).

“Firstly, don’t believe it when they say you’re permanently banned. There’s always a way.” – Chloe (32:31)

• Ongoing Censorship:
  Custom landing pages, stricter content guidelines, and candid callouts to tech companies about bias against larger-busted women in ads (34:47-35:19).

  “Things like—you can only use smaller busted women in your ads because the bigger busted women have too much cleavage and that’s going to trigger the AI to make it pornographic. How do you ever get representation if that’s…the case?” – Phil (34:47)

7. Baked-in Inclusivity

• Beyond Marketing:
  Sizing up to K cup, 6XL, and gender-inclusive designs (e.g., tucking briefs for trans women); developed in consultation with advocacy organizations (35:28-38:07).

“For them to be able to access products like that at $59 that are actually cool…was a new revolutionary experience for them.” – Chloe (36:44)

• Real Emotional Impact:
  Test wearers sometimes left fit sessions in tears, having never had access to properly fitting, attractive bras (36:44-36:46).

8. Retail, Scaling, and Global Strategy

• Retail Partnerships:
  Strategic launch with David Jones, drawn by a boutique environment and the ability to offer extended sizing not available from legacy brands (38:07-40:49).

“I reckon we’re the only brand that was founded this century on the shelves here.” – Phil (39:40)

• Cautious Approach to Global:
  Shipping to New Zealand but wary of international expansion due to inventory and cost complexities (41:04-42:17). Advisors urge patience and focus.

9. Founder Journey & Realities

• Personal Sacrifice:
  Built the company while navigating a grueling 18-month fertility journey and new parenthood (46:32).

  “It can feel very heavy and very full and very challenging at times…people should understand that sacrifice before going into it.” – Chloe (46:32)

• Hours and Balance:
  Acknowledges that sometimes building a high-growth company requires 70-80 hour weeks, but with ebb and flow (47:41-48:52).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Burn the six ships that we've come on. There is no other way out of this other than to win. And I think we kind of went in with that mentality…There is no plan B.” – Phil (21:00)

• “We wanted to build [inclusivity] into the product as well so that a range of different diverse customers could actually purchase products that were designed for their body.” – Chloe (35:28)

• “Before launch, I held a whole meeting—I was convinced no one was going to post in their bras and underwear…then when we launched, everyone was posting selfies of themselves in Nala in the mirror, selfies here, there, everywhere.” – Chloe (19:06)

• “Don’t believe it when they say you’re permanently banned. There's always a way.” – Chloe (32:31)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Intro & Origin Story: 02:04–03:27
• Product Validation & Survey: 03:27–06:44
• Taking the $200K Risk: 03:27–04:55, 07:59
• Design Outsourcing & Technical Challenges: 09:33–11:56
• Launch, PR Stunt, Viral Growth: 12:24–15:13
• PR Agency, Influencer Strategy: 15:22–16:53
• Launch Day Results & Early Traction: 17:14–19:06
• Inventory Management & Learning Curves: 23:49–26:24
• Marketing Economics & Repeat Customers: 26:55–29:11
• Hyper-personalized Fit Guide: 29:20–32:10
• Platform Challenges (Social Media Bans): 32:10–35:19
• Inclusivity as a Product Pillar: 35:28–38:07
• Retail Expansion Approach: 38:07–40:49
• Global Expansion Strategy: 41:04–42:17
• Advisory & External Input: 42:49–44:24
• Personal Journey, Sacrifice, and Advice: 44:50–48:52

Final Advice for Founders

• Phil:
  • Fully commit, act as if there’s no other option.
  • There’s no secret sauce—just get the basics right, work hard, and you’ll be ahead of most.
• Chloe:
  • Understand the personal sacrifice—especially when life gets complicated alongside business.
• On Work-Life Balance:

  “Some weeks, yeah [you work 70-80 hours], but not always…You need to make sure you have the right work-life balance…” – Phil (47:55)

This episode is an unfiltered, practical masterclass in all-in entrepreneurship, the importance of data-driven product design, bold marketing, and building an inclusive—and enduring—brand.