← The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan
The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan
627: How This Law School Dropout Built an Iconic Aussie Fashion Brand in Just 5 Years
00:56:25
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- [00:02]
A
Hey, founder fam. I want to talk to you about something super exciting. We're officially partnered with Omnisend, the email marketing and SMS platform built specifically for e commerce founders. We've been recommending Omnisend to founder students for a while now because it just works. Whether you're launching your first store or you're scaling to seven figures, it really helps you automate your marketing and get real results. Did you know, on average, OMNISEND customers make $68 for every $1 they spend, which is an insanely good return. And because you're part of the founder community, you get 50% off your first three months with the code. Founder50. Just head to omnisend.com founder without the e to get started. All right, now let's jump back into the show. So what if you had to take over a whole retail business that just lost most of its brand partnerships overnight and you never run a business before? Well, meet Leah Georgantis, the founder of Girls With Gems, the Australian fashion brand that's become iconic for its relentless social media presence and viral storytelling campaigns. So after studying law for five and a half years, Leah took over her mum's struggling multi boutique brand, only to face COVID lockdowns six months later and a crisis that almost wiped out all their supplies in just one day. So in this episode, you're going to discover how posting six to nine times per day on Instagram helped them expand explode by being relatable instead of perfect. Why Leah refuses to participate in Black Friday and why that's a genius move. And how she launched Sneaky Link. Her private label is a raw, unfiltered conversation about building a fashion empire through authentic storytelling, relentless content creation, and never letting ego stop you from posting.
- [01:50]
B
Hear the stories, learn the proven methods, and accelerate your growth and future through entrepreneurship.
- [01:58]
A
Welcome to the founder podcast with Nathan Chan. All right, Leah, so how did you start this incredible brand? You have a career in law. Is this your first business?
- [02:10]
B
Yes, it is. So my mom started the brand when I was still at school, but I was working side by side with her, and then I had my eyes set on law. I was 100% going to become a lawyer, but while I was studying law, I was working with her as, like, my casual job. And I really loved the business, but I was like, I'm just doing this for fun. I'm going to become a lawyer. And then when crunch time came, five and a half years after studying law and I was actually going to go to my corporate job, my mom was like, okay, Cool. I'm out. I'm going to build a hotel in Milos. I am not going to continue Girls with Gems. So you can take it over if you want to, but if you take it over, you have to keep it. Like, I'm not, I'm not coming back to save you if you don't want it anymore and. Or I'm going to sell it. And at that time, I was literally going to my corporate law job and I was like, what am I going to do? And so I had to make the decision, obviously made the decision to take over Girls with Gems and never looked back.
- [03:01]
A
There you go. I actually just came back from Milos.
- [03:05]
B
Really good.
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A
Is it?
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B
It's the best. It's like second home now.
- [03:09]
A
Yeah. Okay. All right. So. So she did your mum did build a hotel?
- [03:13]
B
Yeah, my mom has a hotel. They're called White Pebble Suites.
- [03:15]
A
Oh, wow. Okay. There you go. That's awesome. All right, so that was five years ago, right?
- [03:20]
B
Yes.
- [03:21]
A
Okay, so you took over the business. Tell me, where was the business at and what? Like, like, how was it going? Was it growing?
- [03:28]
B
Like, so we had the boutique in Double Bay. I took over and it was a multi brand boutique. And within six months, Covid had broken out. When I took over, we probably had like four staff. We were running the shop, we were running aecom. We're doing really well, but obviously it's grown exponentially since taking over. But then when Covid broke out, we went to no staff, just me and then it was me and one other girl and we kind of reinvented the business during that time because, I mean, when in business do you ever have a minute to stop on your hamster wheel? So we actually got to stop and be like, who do we want to be? What do we want to stock? What do we stand for? And it was actually a really cool time. I always say that COVID lockdown was probably one of my favorite times of my life.
- [04:14]
A
Why?
- [04:15]
B
Because you just never get a moment to stop. So I think for business owners, it was a cool time if you were willing to reinvent. So we just stopped everything coming in. We stopped all stock coming in. And I'm like, okay, people are going to be at home, they're going to want really cool lounge sets, they're going to want activewear. So we stopped everything else coming in and we bulked up on sweaters, sweatpants, activewear, anything that you could wear kind of to like get a coffee or go to the beach, do things like that. And it exploded. The business exploded.
- [04:45]
A
Okay. So tell me through the numbers. So can you share where the business was at revenue wise to then? Because a lot of brands went through big, big growth through Covid, but then it wasn't sustained. So can you give me a kind of a gauge?
- [04:59]
B
It was a big jump.
- [05:00]
A
Okay.
- [05:01]
B
Percentage at that point, we were growing like 50% year on year, which ended up becoming 100. 200%.
- [05:08]
A
Yep.
- [05:09]
B
Quickly after.
- [05:10]
A
Yes. Okay.
- [05:11]
B
So I just also want to say after that, obviously came the time where we reopened, so we couldn't just continue with loungewear, but during that time, we were like, okay, when we reopen, who do we want to be? We want to open with a fresh store, a fresh brand mix. We want a new social media presence. We changed so much as a community during lockdown. People wanted more online. They didn't want to just see, like, photos of beautiful models. They wanted interaction, and we were giving people that. So when we reopened, we reopened with this whole new social media presence, which made people want to come to Double Bay and come to our store because of the community we had built online during that time. Yeah, I think that was probably the most important part.
- [05:51]
A
Yep. Yeah. And look, my fiance, who I shared, grew, like, spent a lot of time in Bondi. She's a massive fan. Like, when I. When I told her I was interviewing you, she was like, oh, that's awesome. I've bought some of her stuff. That's so exciting. And she knows your store. She's been there. Like, so. So you've built this really iconic brand, especially in Australia.
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B
Yep.
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A
So tell me about kind of. You said you grew really fast over Covid. A lot of brands did. Wasn't sustained. But what did you do in particular around the social and content side? Because you. Because you really reimagined the whole business.
- [06:28]
B
Yes. I think ours was sustained because we focused on the social media piece. It wasn't just about a product going viral, that we're selling, like millions of one product. It was really the social media that was the biggest part of the puzzle for us. So during that time, I kept sitting down with my now husband and two girlfriends who were working with me in the business at that time, and I was like, okay, all of these brands are posting these really beautiful photo shoots from all around the world, and it's so beautiful. But right now we're like, in lockdown, and people don't want to see that. They want to see normal, relatable people. So we were getting up online every day, and we were wearing. I was wearing a size 12. My friend was wearing a size 6. And we're talking about life. We're like, what are we going to do when lockdown ends? Oh, my God, I can't wait to go to Mateo. I'm going to order a pizza and pasta. Oh, my God. And then my friend, she was like, I'm going to go on a date. I can't wait to go on a date. And we're talking about, like, just real world stuff, and people were really engaging with that. And we never stopped doing that when we reopened. And still today we just talk about, like, real life stuff and just get online and then we're wearing the clothes.
- [07:33]
A
Yeah. Look. So that's, that's been a unique thing that you guys have done exceptionally well. And it was just, I guess, a somewhat of a content pillar. You guys just tried. And when you started doing it, did you see immediate traction? Okay. Okay. And what did, what did immediate traction look like? Was it likes engagement sales?
- [07:52]
B
Like, it was likes engagement DMS about how much it was impacting people, especially because they're at home. So people would be like, I'm at home looking after my sick mom, and your videos literally make me smile. Every day I'd get stopped in the street by a man saying, my wife watches your videos every single day in bed. It's like, I just heard your voice and I knew it was you. And we could just like, see the direct impact we were making on the community. But then also it translated into sales, which was incredible.
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A
Yeah. And how, like, you guys have posted a lot. That's one thing. When I was looking at your social, like, you guys have like thousands and thousands, thousands, thousands of posts.
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B
So we're literally relentless.
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A
Yeah. So how, how, how many times a day were you posting back then?
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B
You reckon back then? Probably six to nine times a day.
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A
And most people listening or watching this right now would be like, there is no way I could do that.
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B
That's because they try to perfect their content.
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A
Yeah.
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B
It doesn't need to be so perfect.
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A
What would you say, like, you know, for anyone that wants to get into content creation, wants to start to build out the content side of their business?
- [08:54]
B
Be relentless. Don't let your ego stop you from posting imperfect content. I mean, they would be the two biggest things. And like, just, just post, just post. You don't know what's going to hit. You can't. Like, you can go out and be like, this is the content that I want to post. And then you post it every day and you're not getting traction. But you Keep doing. Because that's what you said you were going to do. What? Why? No, it's not working. Change it. You have to change it. So we just kept throwing everything at the wall to see what would stick, and then it would stick. And it would stick for a really long time, and then it wasn't really sticking anymore. Okay, let's go again. What are we going to do? Reiterate. So you've just got to be really relentless in social media content and just keep trying new things. If something works, keep doing it. But you've got to keep, like, reinventing the wheel, because then people started copying what we were doing, which is so flattering. I don't care. I think it's amazing. It means we're doing so well that people want to, you know, make content like ours. But then when everyone's doing it and then the market's saturated, you need to come up with new content ideas.
- [09:50]
A
So that style, though, that, you know, it's just you, your friend, like, you know, your girlfriend's just, like, chatting through, talking through the look, like. Yeah, like, that is still work to this day, right?
- [10:00]
B
For sure. Yes.
- [10:02]
A
Yeah. What. What are other things that you guys have tried that worked, that hasn't worked now? Like, talk me through that.
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B
We've obviously tried things with AI which did really well, but right now, I'm a bit over it. Like, I wouldn't do an AI campaign right this second because everyone's doing them.
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A
Yeah, tell me about that. Because that shit went viral. That was that.
- [10:20]
B
We were literally, I would say we were the first campaign. So I said to my husband, I think it was two or three years ago, I said to my husband, I want to fly to Greece next year so I can shoot our Europe campaign. Because right after lockdown, we started doing Europe campaign every year. And honestly would blow up because no one else would do it. And we're in the eastern suburbs, and a lot of the eastern suburbs, I don't want to generalize, but it's true. They go to Europe.
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A
Yes.
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B
So we would do these campaigns. And I said, I want to fly to Europe and do the campaign. And he was like, we literally don't have time for you to fly to Europe right now. Why don't we use AI? And I was like, okay, yeah, but the best idea, we're going to dress up. We'll do it on a white wall. And then I want you to, like, put us with a background and we're going to do, like, we're going to the airport. We're In Dubai. We're in Paris, we're in Mykonos. And I know that sound sounds really easy right now, because anyone can do that with AI but, like, three years ago, it was a little bit harder. But we did this photo shoot on a white wall, and then we put ourselves with these backgrounds, and people actually believe we flew to Europe because we even got the, like, airport and, like, put ourselves, like, a photo being like, we're heading to Europe. And it blew up. I think it's still. Is our, like, second or third best campaign today.
- [11:32]
A
Okay. And what.
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B
I don't think that would work today.
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A
Okay. Why?
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B
Because it would be boring today.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Because anyone can do it. It's too easy.
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A
And can you tell us when you say best campaign? Like, can you give us likes? Yeah. Okay. And can you give us a kind of idea of sales or, like, anything.
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B
To be honest with that one. The sales came in over, like, a month because then everyone was coming to us for their Europe outfits. But I wouldn't say it was like, it was more of a brand awareness piece.
- [11:59]
A
Yeah.
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B
It wasn't about direct sales because the outfits we were wearing, we didn't have hundreds of them, so we weren't selling hundreds of one piece.
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A
Yeah.
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B
It was brand awareness.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And bringing people to shopper girls with gems.
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A
Gotcha Y. So you took over the brand from your mom? Blew up during COVID Yep. A lot of e commerce brands. Oh, like, a lot. Like, like, all blew up during COVID For me, you know, I was the same. I was just working like crazy. And then after it finished, like, I was like, early 2021, I experienced deep, deep burnout where I just, like, I didn't want to go to work. Did you experience any burnout or anything? Because it was just, like, a constant grind.
- [12:45]
B
I'm not sure if it would. I wouldn't say it happened to me right after lockdown, probably by, like, December. So we reopened in October. Probably by December. I was. I was done.
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A
Yep.
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B
Yeah. But I think I had actually burnt out before lockdown, which was quite strange.
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A
Yeah. Why was that?
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B
Because I. When I took over the retail business and had quit my law job, I felt like what I was doing was inferior to what I could have done because that's how I was made to feel because I was surrounded by people who went to, like, you know, we were all going to uni and getting corporate jobs, and my choice to take over a business was not what everyone else. No one else was doing it, so. And I was like, I've taken over A retail business. Like, I don't know if that's enough. So then I was like, okay, I'm going to fly to Greece and I'm going to make a dish. Like, I'm going to distribute Greek brands. And I tried to do all these other businesses while I'd just taken over Girls with Gems. Like, instead of just focusing on the business that I had just taken over because I was like, I need to do so many things. So I completely burned myself out. And then I was like, okay, wait, let's just focus on the one business and let's grow this one.
- [13:52]
A
Yep.
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B
And not worry about all these other things.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Try to prove myself.
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A
Yeah. And how did you recover from that burnout?
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B
Oh, so much like therapy and then, like, kinesiology and the witch doctors and, you know, all of that stuff.
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A
And what worked?
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B
I don't know all of it. Did anything work? It happened again.
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A
Okay, where did it happen again?
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B
I would have happened again, like, a year and a half later, and then it happened again a year after that. And that hasn't happened now for a while, which is really nice.
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A
Okay, and why do you think that is?
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B
I think because I've done a lot of years of, like, really, really, really hard work, and, as in not work on myself to stop the burnout. As in, I worked so many years for this business, and now we're at a point where we have lots of staff and I am just not working probably the hours I was working back then.
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A
And I think in the early stages of any business, unfortunately, the unsexy truth, I believe, is that is what is required.
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B
You have to. Someone else will just do it.
- [14:54]
A
Yeah. 100%. Like, so, you know, it's. It's not. It's not the popular opinion, but I was the same, like in the early days. Founder. I was a lot younger then.
- [15:06]
B
Yeah.
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A
And I found that. Yeah. And I found that I could operate of hardly any sleep. And I'm not saying this is healthy, and I'm not saying it's what you have to do, but it. From my experience, it's what I do.
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B
So we had the retail boutique and still do. So I was working seven days a week on the retail floor, and then I would do my work on the business before and after hours.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Then that moved. It obviously moved down and down, but I continued working Saturdays and sometimes Sundays. So I was working seven days a week and then six days a week. And then up until literally, like a year and a half ago, I worked six days a week always. And I was on my feet on the floor serving people. So burnout was inevitable because I was like physically so exhausted and mentally so exhausted, whereas now I don't work on the shop floor. So I think the physical element is way less and it's just the mental element and I can cope with that more.
- [15:57]
A
Yeah. Thank you for sharing. So I guess when it comes to the online side of the business, talk me through kind of what you've done to really grow this brand. What are some of the been the big step changes in growth. You've launched your own private label brand, which I want to talk about. Sneaky Link, that's going very, very, very well. I want to delve into the depths of that. But what are the things that you've done over these past five years to really catapult the brand?
- [16:22]
B
So definitely Sneaky Link is one of the biggest things. It amounts to about 50% of our revenue currently in the business, which is insane for such a young brand. But I think that we are so relentless on social media and that we are constantly coming up with campaigns and new ideas and constantly kind of like wowing our audience. Like sometimes I think it can't actually be any better than this. And then we one up ourselves, like we're launching. Actually I can talk about it right now because this is not going to go live yet. So we, we don't participate in Black Friday, but we do five days of Christmas. So next week we have five days of Christmas and our launch campaign is two of our staff jumping out of an airplane. Actually not. I. That is the most epic campaign I've ever seen. I've never seen a campaign better in Australia. Like my staff actually jumped out of an airplane. That's insane. So, but then I'm like, well, how do we even one up this? But like we will next year. We'll find something to do. Yeah, yeah.
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A
And few things unpack here. Why don't you participate in Black Friday?
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B
We just don't like it.
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A
Why?
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B
Oh, there's so many reasons. Did you want to tell me?
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A
Yeah, I want to hear like, like why? Because most brands do. Most brands use this time period to make a large, like a large majority of profits.
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B
So first thing is, when my husband came into the business, we were discounting a lot. So we would have sales. You know, when sales were low, we'd have a. Sorry. When revenue was low, we'd have a sale and we'd make a promotion. Also in store people were getting discounts. And then when he came in and we kind of were like solidifying exactly who we wanted to be and what we wanted to do. We were like, we don't want to have discounts. There was a lot of like, head clashing because he was like, I don't want to have any sales. And I was like, we need to have sales. We need to get rid of dead stock. And he was like, I don't care. Donate it. And I was like, no, we need, we need the money. We're not donating. But we ended up landing on not being able to have more than three sales in a year. So we only have three sales a year. And that means even, like, even like any offer, it has to go into one of those three.
- [18:26]
A
Okay.
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B
So we're not allowed to have more than three sales a year.
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A
Okay.
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B
Which I now love because our customer is taught to always buy at full price.
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A
Yeah.
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B
We also don't have a 10% discount when you sign up. Our offer is that we are styling you and bringing you the best of the best. There's no discount.
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A
So during those three periods, you usually do a five days of Christmas.
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B
No, we'll do five days of Christmas is one of them. And then the other two will just be a sale on sale. So we never go like store wide. You'll never receive new products discounted except for five days of Christmas.
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A
Okay.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Interesting. And why else don't you like Black Friday?
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B
Because Black Friday is actually meant for America for Thanksgiving. So like, why has it become an Australian phenomenon and worldwide thing? It's actually about Thanksgiving. So it's really confusing that it's been bought here. And it's honestly, I mean, you would know this. It's new. It's only been around for like four years. Really? In Australia, in eecom. I also don't like the idea of buying product. So say you have a business selling glasses and you're like, okay, let's get, let's order 20,000 of them, so then we can do 30% off.
- [19:33]
A
Well, it's when people want to buy.
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B
People way train the shopper to, to buy it full price.
- [19:39]
A
True. But at the same time, I get that, but I'm just talking through, like, during this time period, it's a seasonal period where people are also trying to buy for their Christmas.
- [19:52]
B
And like, that's so bad for the retail landscape because this time of year is actually where businesses, where retail businesses need to make money. So now they've discounted their product. That was never the case. This time of year was all about retailers actually making their profit.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And now the Profit's been shaved off. And sure, it's fine for econ brands where their margins 80%, but what about all these other businesses who have to participate that might be multi brand boutiques that only are getting 50% margins and then they're shaving off 30%. They've left with 20% profit. Not really. After you pay wages and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
- [20:27]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you guys are anti Black Friday Cyber Monday. You never do campaign.
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B
I never say never.
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A
Okay.
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B
I never say never in business.
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A
Okay.
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B
Why at this point? Well, because you change your mind. I don't want to be stuck to something I said once, but at this point we just, we just don't participate in it at this point.
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A
Okay, that's fair.
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B
Yeah. So I think that the biggest thing that I want to say is that I think it's just an unfair time for retail because we really should, as retailers be making money at this time of year.
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A
Yeah, that's fair. So talk me through. You said every year your campaigns get better and better. You don't think you can top them. Where do you draw inspiration for your campaign ideas?
- [21:11]
B
We just had a really creative team, I guess, and we're always scrolling on TikTok Instagram and I don't know, normally it's just one person who comes in and they're like, let's do this. So my husband was like, we need to jump out of a plane. And then Amy and Renee were like, I've always wanted to jump out of the plane. And then we're like, okay, how can we relate this back to our campaign? So the girls had like five days of Christmas on their arms. And they're like flying out of the sky with five days of Christmas on their arms. I guess it's not, it's not drawn from one place specifically. It's just from constantly scrolling and always thinking about ideas that will catch people's attention.
- [21:47]
A
And one thing I would like to kind of delve a bit deeper on is bringing your husband into the business. He's bringing. He's brought some more structure and rigor and strategic planning. Can you talk me through that?
- [22:01]
B
So my husband came from a construction. Well, first he was in construction, then he was in tech background and he was working at a tech company before he came over to Girls with Gems. It was literally like, I think it was like four days after he proposed to me. I was like, hey, you have to quit your job and come work at Girls with Gems. And he was like, what the hell? I'm like, I can't do this for a day longer without you. Like, I need you to come in. And I just feel like. Like, I'm super creative and not in terms of, like, I'm not going to sit there and, like, draw dresses, but I. I come up with creative strategy and, you know, exciting things for the business in terms of social media and sneaky link and all of that stuff. But I needed someone to be in the background and actually create structure in the business. Operations, hr. Find us an office. We need to move to a warehouse. Like, I don't want to do those things. I don't like making those decisions. I want to do the fun things.
- [22:48]
A
Yep.
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B
Yeah. So he does all those things.
- [22:49]
A
Yep. And it's working out well.
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B
It's working really well.
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A
How do you kind of balance that? Work at home, talking about work, separating the relationship with work.
- [23:02]
B
I think we're really good at just setting boundaries. So this morning he drove me to the airport, and then I started talking about work, and then he was like, I don't want to talk about it right now. I was like, okay, cool. Do you want me to talk about swimming in the ocean? And he was like, yes. So then, you know, we just changed the subject and, like, same with me. He might talk to me about something at night, and I'm like, I don't want to talk about this right now. And he's like, cool, no worries. But we. It's not off limits at nighttime. Like, we love girls with gems and sneaky links so much. Why would we limit talking about something we love so much? If anything, we're like, what do other couples talk about all the time? They don't have this to talk about. Like, what do they talk about? But yeah, we don't exactly. I wouldn't say we. We have this structured, like, balance.
- [23:46]
A
Yeah.
- [23:46]
B
But we've just made it work in our own way.
- [23:48]
A
Yeah.
- [23:49]
B
Yeah. And obviously there's going to be times when you clash and. Oh, but that happens in any relationship.
- [23:54]
A
Of course. Look, I. I launched a business with, you know, my partner at the time, and from that experience, I would never do it again.
- [24:05]
B
Yeah.
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A
And that was.
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B
I think. I think it just depends on the relationship.
- [24:09]
A
Yeah.
- [24:10]
B
And you have to have different things that you're great at. So we have different things that we're great at, and so we can work together, because then I know he's got his thing and I've got my thing, and I know it's being taken care of by him, who I trust so much. So it just, like, works.
- [24:26]
A
Yeah. Yeah. So brands going well?
- [24:30]
B
Yeah.
- [24:31]
A
You decide to launch your own private label brand, Sneaky Link. Why?
- [24:37]
B
The reason for Sneaky Link is really different to the why now. So when I started it. Well, when we started it, I had said that I wanted to make a brand that was printed items that were exclusive. So we would make like, would get Aussie designer to paint a design and then we put it onto clothing and sell like 100 units of each one. And that was the initial idea of Sneaky Link. First print went really well. I'm trying to. Second second print was really bad. Third print, unbelievable. But then I started wanting to bring out basics. Like I really wanted cargo pants and no one would make cargo pants. Like, no one. No brands that were working with saw cargo pants as like something that was viral at the time. But it was. And I was like, we really need these cargo pants. So I was like, hey, I'm going to start my own a new brand. And I had done all the logo branding, everything. And then I saw someone and they're like, I literally just went under. I had five brands. I urge you not to do that. I think you should just keep everything under Sneaky Link. Throw everything at the wall, see what sticks and then decide who you want to be. Don't worry about like what the market thinks about Sneaky Link. Just first work out exactly who you want to be. I was like, cool, I'm doing it. So we just bought out these cargo pants under Sneaky Link and then we bought out a mini skirt and then we bought out sarongs and we kept bringing out things that we wanted to sell that no one else was selling at the time. And as time went on, we realized that although the prints were really fun and we were selling them really well, it's not an all, it's not a year round thing in Australia to wear print because when we're in winter, no one is going to be sporting a printed shorts and shirt set. So we started making everyday basics and that was kind of where my like, creative, like I was creatively more inspired there than I was with the Prince. So we stopped making prints and we went all in to streetwear and that's where we're at.
- [26:37]
A
And when it came to, I guess starting the brand, how much did it cost? Talk me through your launch strategy and how you source product.
- [26:48]
B
Sourcing product was really. I actually found it really hard because I obviously wanted to find a factory in China, but I didn't know the first thing about making clothes. So I knew that I wanted this print And I wanted it printed onto clothing, but I didn't know how that was all going to happen. And when I was trying to find factories, like, the communication was really difficult without going there. I guess, like you just didn't know who you were speaking to. It was really. I found it really overwhelming. So one day I sat down with a piece of paper and a pen and nothing else, and I was like, hey, if I can't figure it out now, like what I'm going to do, then I'm not doing it. So I sat there and I was trying to think of everyone who could possibly help me to start this brand because I didn't feel like I could do it alone from my desk with just sending emails to China and barely getting anything back. And I ended up reaching out to someone who helped me start the brand. And that person kind of like did our first run and got paid for it and helped me and like guided me through the whole process, which was really nice. And most people would never do that. But yeah, that's how the business started.
- [27:53]
A
Got you. So what was your MOQ?
- [27:57]
B
Yeah.
- [27:57]
A
And how much did you invest?
- [28:00]
B
So MOQ was always 100 units minimum per pace, which is obviously scary when you've gone from like multi brand boutique. Sometimes you're buying like four.
- [28:07]
A
Yeah.
- [28:08]
B
Of each piece. So 100 was like, well, that's a lot startup costs. I guess it was a little bit easier because we already had Girls with Gems set up, so we didn't have to create like, you know, the infrastructure. Yes, exactly. We had all of the infrastructure. So I feel like I. I don't want to misguide anyone. Obviously it's a lot more expensive when you need to set up a website and your company structure and all of that stuff. But that was all ready to go. We decided to sell Sneaky Link exclusively on the Girls with Gems website. So all we had to pay for was the sampling costs and then the stock. So. And obviously because at that time we had built Girls with Gems up to a great point, we just used the money in Girls with Gems as if we would buying another brand.
- [28:54]
A
Yep.
- [28:54]
B
So I guess we're really lucky in that. What was the other question?
- [28:59]
A
Just MOQ and then how much it costs.
- [29:01]
B
Cool.
- [29:01]
A
Yeah.
- [29:01]
B
Yeah. But I feel like that's kind of unfair because people think, okay, then it's that easy. It doesn't cost much money. It does when you have to set up all of those things. But I think that you don't need to think like, I need a hundred thousand dollars. So I can go and get a warehouse and so that I can go and get all the like cool scan tools and the things that print the labels and all of that stuff. At that point we were still printing labels on the free Australia Post paper that they give you where there's four on each one. And like you, you don't need all the technical things when you first start. You just need to get started and then the money starts coming in and then you can do the cool things.
- [29:37]
A
Yeah, of course. So you start small, right? Yeah, like, and that's how every brand starts. Especially like you guys haven't raised any money or anything like that. So you, you do what you can with the resources you have. That's bootstrapping. Right. So talk me through your pre launch strategy. Like how did you launch it?
- [29:53]
B
Okay, so we launched. I actually had gone to the Carlisle in Brisbane. Have you been there?
- [29:59]
A
No, but I've heard like it's iconic.
- [30:02]
B
Yes, really iconic. So. And I had all the samples and our first print was like so, so, so amazing and very reminiscent of an Australian summer. And I was wearing the things and it was like, it was a really cool campaign, like teasing it. But then it was confusing because people thought we were opening a store in Brisbane and people were messaging me being like, congratulations. I'm like, oh my God, no, that's not what we're doing. So but then we had a campaign in Australia where we did it like down at Camp Cove and it was really beautiful in Sydney. We didn't launch with a crazy campaign on that one, which is quite funny because all of our campaigns are really like rogue and crazy, but that one was more of a beautiful campaign.
- [30:40]
A
So talk me through, like how many people were on the wait list, like how you've had the campaign you built up. How long did it take for you to actually kind of go from pre marketing to actually launch?
- [30:52]
B
Probably a few weeks. Probably two or three weeks.
- [30:54]
A
Okay, great. So when it comes to, I guess you went through a due diligence part of kind of someone interested in buying your business.
- [31:06]
B
Yeah.
- [31:07]
A
When it comes to, I guess that stage of business, you've got all these offers coming at you. What happened?
- [31:13]
B
So the due diligence came before I took over because my mom wasn't 100 in anymore and I didn't know what I was doing. And then so a business wanted to buy our business and then they sat in for six months and then at the end they were like, we'll buy your list of people we don't really want the rest we're coming anyway and we were obviously really confused. And then they ended up opening in Sydney and they told all of our brands that if the brands continued stocking with us that they wouldn't house the brands. And they had multiple locations and Ecom. So most of the brands pull the brands out of Girls with Gems, which wipes out a lot of money overnight.
- [31:57]
A
Yep. Wow.
- [31:59]
B
Yeah.
- [31:59]
A
So. So that was what you were gifted.
- [32:02]
B
Yeah, I was gifted. That issue. Yes. Yeah.
- [32:07]
A
Okay. All right. And then another thing is like, when it comes to sneaky link, your blazers, you know, they're quite cost affordable. They sell for $359, but they're produced in factories that also make, you know, $5,000 blaze like that, sell like that also make $5,000 blazers. How do you manage the manufacturing process to kind of maintain this extreme price point?
- [32:32]
B
I think for certain products we're willing to sacrifice margin to bring something amazing to market. I think that's like the high level answer. So I don't care about meeting margin because I'm like, this product is so great. So we bought a product to market which was a 100% wool coat. And I wasn't willing to put any synthetic material in the coat because I really believed that the coat needed to be 100% wool. And we lost margin on it. But I didn't care because I can make that margin up in something else. And I really care about a product being amazing and for people to be able to wear it for years and for it to like stand the test of time.
- [33:14]
A
Yeah, that makes sense. So when it comes to, I guess you guys are really focused on the Australian market.
- [33:22]
B
Yeah.
- [33:22]
A
But you are an international brand.
- [33:24]
B
Yes.
- [33:25]
A
So what are you guys doing? Are you going after Australian customers specifically? Do you have ambitions to open up retail stores worldwide? Like, talk me through that.
- [33:35]
B
We don't have ambitions to open retail worldwide. We do have ambition to go after retail econ.
- [33:44]
A
Yep.
- [33:44]
B
Online in other countries.
- [33:46]
A
Yep.
- [33:48]
B
I think we're not done with Australia yet. So we haven't gone into international. But we are on the brink of it right now.
- [33:57]
A
Yep. Okay. So you do sell internationally right now?
- [34:00]
B
We do, we do. And you can shop online, like internationally. But I guess when we were about to go into America, all of that stuff happened and we were like, it's too hard. We're not going to start pushing out there.
- [34:10]
A
Yep.
- [34:11]
B
No. So we've been focusing on Australia.
- [34:13]
A
Okay. And when you said you were not done, how do you know when you're done? Like, how do you know when to Start looking and expanding from your perspective.
- [34:22]
B
Well, I think you know when you're saturating the market here and when you've grown out of it, but I just don't think we were there yet. We also don't have the capacity in terms of infrastructure to blow up online in another country where it could go crazy because we just weren't ready. But we're about to be ready because we're moving into a warehouse. A big warehouse. Yeah. Like, I think the other thing is like we can barely cope with demanding. Like we are getting 150 boxes plus weekly or bi weekly. We can barely cope with bringing that in and pushing it out. How could we turn on the uk? We won't be able to send their orders out.
- [35:06]
A
Yeah, okay, awesome. So this is a quality problem to have. So, so what's your, what are some of your biggest challenges right now as. As you're growing and scaling this business?
- [35:19]
B
Well, space has been one, so we are moving to a much bigger warehouse in the new year, which is really, really, really exciting because we'll have bestselling products and we can't order, say we want to order like 10,000 units. We actually can't because we can't fit them anywhere. So we have to order like 3,000 and then back it up with another 3,000. But what if the lead time is messed up? What if the fabrication changes? They don't have it. Like there's all these things we have to consider. So we're constantly chasing our tail. And that obviously puts a lot of pressure on me because I'm doing the buying and all that stuff. So you've got to constantly be like checking your stock, reordering, speaking to the factories instead of just doing like one bulk order. So that I think the space thing is one of the biggest problems. And I also think we didn't rush into getting a massive warehouse because we do business responsibly. But it has been a really tough thing this year because we just haven't been able to cope with the growth.
- [36:20]
A
So I guess what advice would you give to founders when it comes to managing a scaling brand? Like how? Like even just people hiring, cash flow, forecasting, all that good stuff. What advice would you give to founders?
- [36:39]
B
Hiring is really hard. Every single time you speak to any business owner, they're like, it's so tough, so tough. In terms of hiring, you really need to try to find the right people, especially as you start hiring senior management. We started hiring senior management this year and it's awesome when you have the right people in place, oh my God. It is the biggest weight lifted off your shoulders. But when you have the wrong people in roles, it can be really complicated. I think one of the things that we're really good at is identifying when things are not working and we're not scared to fix those problems. You know, like probation is there for a reason. And if someone is not contributing to the business how you thought they might be, then like, you need to do what's right for the business. It's really, really, really important because if you have one wrong person, it can just ruin the whole vibe. And I don't mean the person can be really amazing, but if they're just not contributing what you need them to be contributing, it can just ruin like the whole energy of everything. So I think that's really, really, really, really important. I also think never stop hiring. Like always have your ears out for people who might align with your business. Especially because we have like the OPS and retail arm. We're just always hiring people because you don't know when the next person might leave. So you've got to like, make sure you have lots of stuff in terms of cash flow. I think even at this stage in business, we are, we're not like throwing money around for like an amazing fit out before we could afford it. And like we were still doing business like we were a few years ago in terms of like costs, like your costs don't need to blow out just because you're making more money. I think that's really important because I think people get ahead of themselves and they're like, we're doing so well. Let's do a one million dollar fit out. We're doing so well. Let's do all of these things. And it's like, no, you need to focus on the primary business first. Stock.
- [38:58]
A
It's an easy trap to fall into though, right? Like, yeah, very. You know, I've, I've been there where you kind of like got all this money and it's like, oh, we need to spend, we need to hire and the resources and like, yeah, it's, it's an easy trap that a lot of founders fall into.
- [39:15]
B
Yeah, it is. I mean, we still haven't done a fit out ever. We're about to do our first one.
- [39:20]
A
Yeah. Okay, so talk me through, I guess. Sneaky link, you said it's, it's, you know, covering 50% of your revenue when it comes to launching a fashion brand. There's so many out there.
- [39:37]
B
Yeah.
- [39:37]
A
Like, how do you, what advice would you give to founders that so funny. Like, want to differentiate, want to create something cool, want to create something unique is obviously, you know, really going super well.
- [39:48]
B
When I first started the business, I was obviously, like, trying to find someone to, like, help me start the business. And I had spoken to someone. They're like, there's too many fashion brands. And I was like, fair, but mine's different. And I think a lot of people feel like that that's why they're starting their fashion brand. I think for us, ultimately, obviously went through that whole stage of prints and all the crazy things that we did, and now we know exactly who we are, and we're bringing out incredible basics that flatter women's bodies, and we want to make women feel confident. Our whole thing is that we are women's clothes made by women for women, and we really think about the female body. We also make from a size 4 to a size 20, which most brands in our category don't extend to that sizing. But we're so big on, like, we'll put a dress on in a fitting and be like, how is a pregnant woman going to feel? How is a woman going to feel who's postpartum? Is a split in this certain position going to make a woman feel better? So we're, like, really obsessed with how women feel. And I think that is the biggest draw card in Sneaky Link. So. And I was so passionate about that. I felt like there were so many brands when I was younger, I would go shopping and I would cry because I didn't like how things looked on me and I didn't want girls feeling like that. And that was one of my biggest, I guess, like, why reasons for Sneaky Link. Once we moved to doing, like, the everyday clothes. And so it makes sense that Sneaky Link would exist in this market. But you do really need to have a massive. Why? You can't just bring another brand to market, making the same viral products that everyone's making, because that's just boring. And when you're just copying what everyone else is doing, why are they going to come to you? They're going to go to the source.
- [41:36]
A
Yeah. And I think a lot of people would look perhaps at a brand like yours and be like, oh, I can create something similar. Right. Yeah. And. And. Or they might see another brand that's doing really, really. And I'll just copy it. Or.
- [41:50]
B
And the biggest thing was with copying. And I've always said this because, like, I'm really flattered when people copy me. Hmm. You. You have your brain. And then if other people are copying you, they're already behind. So then I'm just gonna like reiterate, come up with another idea, because I was smart enough to come up with that one. That was really good. So let's go again. This person's just trailing behind you. So they're never coming up with anything new. Consumers can see that over time. So I think, sure, you can make a business founded on other people's ideas, but it just won't last. You know, it doesn't stand out.
- [42:23]
A
Yeah, I agree. And look, I think one of the biggest things, if you want to launch a physical program or any company for that matter, you need to have a unique differentiator. You need to have a reason to exist.
- [42:35]
B
Yes.
- [42:36]
A
And you need to have a problem that you are passionate about because there'll be hard times where you have to kind of keep moving through it.
- [42:45]
B
Yeah.
- [42:46]
A
And most people will give up if it's just to copy something, just to make some cash.
- [42:50]
B
Hundred percent. They just won't be able to go further unless someone else has done something that they're like, oh, okay, I'll do that too. Yeah. So I think that's the biggest thing. And like, not. I've never ever wasted time worrying about people copying us in any capacity. I'm always like, hey, they copied us. We're doing well. Let's keep going.
- [43:07]
A
Yeah.
- [43:08]
B
Yeah.
- [43:09]
A
I love it. So what is next for you? Right? What. What is exciting? You said you got this Five Days of Christmas campaign. You're talking about international expansion work. What is next?
- [43:19]
B
I think next year is going to be a massive year. I was actually reflecting on this yesterday because we have our Christmas party coming up and it's always like a time of reflection. And like the last few years, I've probably said things like, you know, we're just getting started. But now I'm like, we're not just getting started. We're here. Like, we. We're making our mark, but we're not going anywhere. Like, I think next year is just going to be such a big year for us because we're moving into a thousand square meters. We're going to be able to order so much product finally, which makes me so excited. We're fitting out an office. We're going to have a sneaky link room. Like, there's just going to be so much room for growth in this new space, which is so cool. And obviously international expansion will come with that because now we have capacity to. What else did you ask me?
- [44:05]
A
What do You? Yeah. What, what's next? What are you excited about?
- [44:07]
B
That's what I'm really excited about. Yeah. And I guess growing sneaky Link, like next year. We've already designed up to mid next year and it's like awesome, awesome collection. So I'm really excited.
- [44:20]
A
Yeah. And the name Sneaky Link, how'd you come up with that?
- [44:22]
B
Do you know what a sneaky link is?
- [44:24]
A
Of course.
- [44:24]
B
Okay, well done. Because no one has ever known when they've interviewed me what it is.
- [44:27]
A
What do you mean?
- [44:29]
B
They just don't know. So we have really young girls that work at Girls with Gems. And my mum would come in all the time and be like, teach me words. I want to know like cool young words. And then the girls are like, oh, sneaky link. Like it's your person on the side. And my mom's like, I love that. And then she'd always be like, she'd always just like sneaky like sneaky link. Sneaky like. And then when we're starting the brand, she's like, call it sneaky Link, like it's your secret brand. It's like your brand on the side. And I was like, I really like that. And then I loved the like sneaky link snake. I love the snake emblem and it just stuck and I love it.
- [45:01]
A
Yeah, that's cool. It's a good story. I like that. So another question I wanted to ask you as well is when it comes to UGC content and using kind of founder led content and you know, building these stories that you guys do, like you do such a great job of doing like these series of stories, like what advice would you give to founders when it comes to coming up with these ideas and creating content like that that people follow along.
- [45:28]
B
Yeah, I think it can be so hard because obviously there's like founder led content which is really like growing your business in public. And then there's also can be like authentic content without growing your business in public. I think I've grown my business, sure, with my community, but they, I haven't really revealed everything as I've gone along and I don't think you have to. I think sometimes it takes like it's too much for people, so you don't need to do that. But I think it's about showing up online and being authentic. So when we create those storylines, we go to these houses and we create these like storylines about the brand. It can be about the brand. It doesn't have to be about you. If you don't want to put your whole Self on the line. You don't need to. You can share your brand without sharing your entire self. But we'll go to these houses with our whole team and it's very authentic and team orient to content that's fun and lighthearted. I think that has been like, really pivotal in our growth and in our community, being able to connect with us without me having to be like, hey, this is me building my brand. Look at me, I'm on Shopify, etc.
- [46:37]
A
Because I don't do that.
- [46:38]
B
I don't have time to do that at this point.
- [46:40]
A
Yeah, yeah. No, I think it's really clever and I think. I agree. That has been from everything I've seen, all the research we've done, that has been like a key pillar of your growth through social media is. Is these storytelling narratives and involving your team, involving your mum.
- [46:56]
B
Yeah.
- [46:56]
A
And she's kind of being really relatable.
- [46:59]
B
Yeah. It is tough sometimes because I think there will be times where it all looks super relatable and fun and all of that stuff online. But, like, in the background, I'm like, I'm struggling so much. Like, the business is killing me, the staff are killing me. Like, I'm not coping. But then there's like all this fun content and I'm like, I'm crying at home, but. And sometimes I struggle with that because I am really authentic and I do show up as myself and I'm like, that sometimes can feel like it might be fake, but it's not really. Like, I don't need to put myself on the Internet crying. I just don't need to. I know, and that's fine. But I. That's just not my style. But I do get on podcasts and talk about things that are complicated. I do share complicated things, but I don't do it all the time because I don't think that the community wants to see that. They do want to see the fun side of fashion. They want to forget their worries for a minute and come and just watch lighthearted, fun stuff about us making them feel confident, you know?
- [48:02]
A
Yeah. And how. How. What advice would you give to founders wanting to build a community and. And having depth of community like you guys have?
- [48:13]
B
I think you have to do it in your own way. And if your way is literally building in public and crying online, that's totally cool because that definitely works. But I think it's finding what is authentic and true to you because it shines online. People know when you're being authentic and people know when you're trying to be authentic. And Girls with Gems works because people can tell it's 100%. Me and the team being who we actually are. Like, I'm very unfiltered online and I say things as they come, and you can just tell. I'm sure you feel the same. Like, when you watch people online, you're like, yeah, Matt, that's actually you. And then sometimes you watch and you're like, that's so fake. I don't like that.
- [48:54]
A
Yeah. Or you get this feeling instinctively. You can feel either you don't trust that person or it's like, yeah, yeah.
- [49:01]
B
I think it's just like, decide how much you want to put out. And also, you don't have to make a decision and stick to it. You can start making content that where you're building public and then be like, you know what? I don't really want to do this. I actually prefer to just make authentic content that's fun and makes people feel confident and blah, blah, blah, like something totally different. You just decide what you want to do and do that authentically. Don't try and copy someone else, because it won't work for long.
- [49:24]
A
And what would you say to founders when it comes to involving your team and building, you know, their characters through the narrative of your storytelling? And sometimes you think, well, what if they leave? And like, yeah, yeah, really good story about this. Yeah. Okay, let's go.
- [49:40]
B
So one of my best friends, Ella, worked in the business at the start, and she was a primary character. Like, it was her and I who were doing the size 6 and size 12 content. And when she quit, I cried so much. I cried like my boyfriend had broken up with me. And I remember, like, going to get ice cream with my real boyfriend and crying. And then I messaged her being like, I realized you're like, we were both really sad. She was also crying. I'm like, I realized I can message you because you're not actually my ex boyfriend. Like, we can still be friends. And she was like, I have not stopped crying. And I didn't think that I could continue the business without her because how could I continue without the main character? Like, how's that going to work? So I reached out to another business owner who was also had built this kind of narrative on social media. And I didn't know her at all, but I admired her. And I messaged being like, my. My primary character's left. I don't know what to do. And she's like, don't worry. Like, people forget really quickly. Just introduce someone else. And I was like, how am I going to do that? But I did it and it worked. And people stopped asking where she went, and people just got used to the next person. And I think that's kind of happened all the way through. When there's people that come and go, people forget about it and then you just introduce someone new. But I think it's really important to have your staff online if you're creating a business that. Where you want to create that kind of narrative, you know?
- [51:09]
A
Yeah, I think it's really clever and it's something to follow along. Exactly. You know, Penny and I were talking about this offline. They're in Sydney. Dessert boxes.
- [51:18]
B
Oh, my God. That's the company. I reached out to the owner.
- [51:23]
A
Yeah, I'm obsessed.
- [51:24]
B
I've been watching them for years.
- [51:25]
A
I watched her all during. Yeah, I watched her all during COVID Me too. I was obsessed.
- [51:30]
B
And I reached out to Samantha and was like, what do I do? She's like, to be fine. You just get paid actors or something. And I was like, okay.
- [51:38]
A
They were the best at doing, like, stories and narratives and they did, like, dating show and all sorts of crazy stuff.
- [51:45]
B
And they also did, like, when they would eat really weird things, like they would make weird things in the. In their office and then, like, make people eat it. Remember that girl? I don't remember her name, but she was really funny.
- [51:55]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [51:58]
B
So I think if that's what you want to create, it's really important and you just can't worry about if people leave. Like, just don't worry about that. Worry about it when it happens. I'm big on that. I don't worry about things prematurely. Worry about it when it happens.
- [52:07]
A
But yeah, look, that level of storytelling, taking people on a journey through your brand and those narratives and characters and storytelling. Yeah, that is really, really powerful for building relationships.
- [52:21]
B
In doing that. Like, it's so relentless, it never ends well.
- [52:25]
A
Talk me through. Like, how would you actually plan. Like, if you plan it. You know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean? Like, like, if you. If a founder literally said, you know what, I want to shake up my content, how would they go around doing that?
- [52:39]
B
Okay, well, firstly, I would start by just like, scrolling so much on TikTok and just saving everything that you like, like, going on to businesses who do that and just like, saving heaps of things that you like and then being like, hey, what can we actually do that relates to us? And then just start doing it and see if people like it. That that's where I would start. And then as you start going, like, every week we'll have a trade meeting where we talk about results from the week before so in. And then we also talk about what we're going to do that week. So we might say, oh, we love the challenge where you put the Freddo frog down and two people have to, like, run on their knees and, like, get it. So we'll say a few things that we want to do that week, and then obviously ad hoc things happen. Like, we'll get pr, we'll get food, and we'll make videos. But then you've got to have your, like, your creative team and con, like your content creation team or person or if it's you, you need to be really relentless. Like, you need to realize when a moment's happening and you need to get your phone out and film it. So you have to, like, start thinking like, tick tock brain. I call it tick tock brain. I have a tick tock brain. So I'm like, film things happening. Film it. Yep, yep. So you just have to, like, realize when those moments are happening and take advantage of them.
- [53:46]
A
And when did you start these narrative, like, was that as soon as you took over?
- [53:52]
B
Pretty soon after. Because we kept having those meetings where we were like, I was like, I don't want to be boring anymore. I don't want to do these campaigns with size 6 models. It's boring. I don't relate to it. I personally don't relate to it. How can I expect other people to? So we started getting up and wearing the outfit, but doing, like, funny things. We'd make, like, blooper videos where we were being silly in the videos. So it kind of started from then the storytelling, and it never stopped.
- [54:15]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, look, I think it's really clever what you've done there. And like I said, my fiance, she's a massive fan. Yeah. And it's a really powerful way that storytelling, taking people on a journey through your content to build relationships. And that's what business is. It's like building relationships at scale. And you're doing a really fantastic job at it.
- [54:35]
B
Thank you.
- [54:35]
A
Well, look, we have to work towards wrapping up. We've been speaking for a long time, and I could keep talking to you all day about business. But one last question. What advice would you give to a founder, early stages, trying to grow their brand?
- [54:49]
B
Right now, my biggest one, and I have said it before on a podcast, but I truly believe it, you are the only person capable of actually doing what you want to do, so you need to actually do it. I think a lot of people say they're going to do things or want to do things, but you're the only one that can, like, put one foot in front of the other and you have to pull the trigger and you have to do things to actually get you where you want to be and not to worry so much about, like, what everyone says and what everyone's opinion is like. Just do what you said you were going to do. Yeah, do what you said you were going to do. Just. Just do it. Because no one else is going to do it for you. You actually have to do it yourself.
- [55:28]
A
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. So, Leah, thank you so much for taking the time coming down here and congratulations on all your success thus far. You're welcome back anytime.
- [55:37]
B
Thank you.
- [55:37]
A
Hey, founder fam. Thank you so much for tuning in today and if you enjoyed this episode, please take the time to leave us a review and let us know what you think. This podcast is 100% free. We work so hard to go out and find the most successful founders and entrepreneurs all around the globe. So your feedback helps us grow, improve, and even bring on more incredible guests and insights. So if you have a second, please take a moment and leave us a review. It really means a lot to to me and the founder team. It makes so much of a difference. Thank you again for listening and I'll catch you on the next episode.