← The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan
The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan
629: $50K to $300M+: How Two L'Oréal Employees Built Glow Recipe | Sarah Lee
01:01:50
Sarah Lee went from cold-emailing 700 journalists by hand and sleeping two hours a night to building Glow Recipe into a nine-figure global skincare brand inside Sephora. And she did it without raising venture capital.
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- [00:02]
A
Hey, Founder fam, I want to talk to you about something super exciting. We're officially partnered with Omnisend, the email marketing and SMS platform built specifically for e commerce founders. We've been recommending Omnisend to founder students for a while now because it just works. Whether you're launching your first store or you're scaling to seven figures, it really helps you automate your marketing and get real results. Did you know on average, OMNISEND customers make $68 for every $1 they spend, which is an insanely good return. And because you're part of the founder community, you get 50% off your first three months with the code. Founder 50 just head to omnisend.com founder without the e to get started. All right, now let's jump back into the show.
- [00:49]
B
Imagine cold calling 700 journalists and influencers, customizing every single pitch or sleeping just two hours a night to hit $1 million in year one or quit entrepreneurship entirely. Today's guest is Sarah Lee, co founder of Glow Recipe, the Korean skincare brand that went from a $50,000 bootstrap curation site to a Sephora empire, doing over nine figures annually. In this episode, you're going to learn how they broke even in just three months by personally researching every Target journalist, skin concerns and delivering customized routines over lunch while they spent a year and a half doing hundreds of formula iterations on their first product before pitching Sephora with just a white jar and an iPad mockup. And the EX moment, they realized they needed to shut down their profitable curation business to focus entirely on their own brand, even though it meant walking away from millions. This is a masterclass in bootstrapping through hustle, building an authentic community on social media before paid ads existed and why having a co founder with the same background might actually be your biggest advantage.
- [01:56]
C
Hear the stories, learn the proven methods, and accelerate your growth and future through entrepreneurship. Welcome to the Founder Podcast with Nathan Chan.
- [02:10]
B
You famously started glow recipe in 2014 by pulling $50,000 in savings. What specific insight about the K beauty market really convinced you to quit what you were doing with your co founder and launch his business?
- [02:29]
C
So I think I have to start from the beginning of how it all started because I am Korean and I was born and raised here in Korea. I live in the US now, but Korean heritage is really just something that I hold near and dear to my heart. And I've always been a skincare and beauty fanatic from a young age. I've learned how to take care of my skin from a young age. From my mother, who learned all the skincare tips and tricks and the approach to skin from her mother. So it's a very generationally transcended sort of love and passion and ritual that we all share as family members. But it's a cultural aspect of Korea as well. And there is this beauty of sharing and bonding through skincare moments. I remember every weekend we would go to public bath houses with our grandmother and aunts and mother and splash, spoiled milk. Spoiled milk, by the way. And I didn't know what it was for, but later learned that milk has lactic acid, and it's great for brightening and fortifying the skin. I used to cut cucumber slices, not to eat, but to actually apply on my mother's face. And she would apply them on my face and also throughout that experience, you know, have a brightening and skin tone evening experience with her. But it was such a natural cultural bonding moment. And there's so many stories that I can go on and on about, but essentially that just shaped me to create or have this amazing passion and love for skincare that naturally made me want to pursue a professional career in the beauty space. And I ended up working at l' Oreal in Korea, which was such a natural choice once again, and a dream come true. And after working at l' Oreal in Korea, I was transferred to the New York office. So in total, I worked for the company for about 11 years as a marketer, brand builder, product developer, and as a product developer, one of the big tasks and challenges that you were given is to identify the next big thing. And what was interesting from what I was doing professionally was I was looking at Korean innovations, especially around skincare, and looking for inspirations from those because they were just so creative. The textures were sensorial, the innovation concepts were unprecedented. The results were phenomenal. But people were having fun. And I remember at that time connecting to those innovations so much, sometimes not even knowing that they were from Korea. Like, we used to have these huge lab days at l', Oreal where a lot of suppliers and manufacturers would come and present the latest innovations. And I would always get the most attracted to the Korean innovations without knowing who they were, just because of all the things that I just shared with you. And at that time, I had a close friend who is now my business partner, Christine. She was also working at l'. Oreal, and we would catch up over sheet masking and wine at my apartment in New York City very often. And we would talk about sometimes projects that we're working on or venting about stuff at work. And we would both always go back to Korea because her family still lived there, bring back suitcases filled with latest and greatest innovations, and have these shared again moments of trying new products and textures and having a great time just doing that. And we both realized that we were always constantly going back to Korean innovations, even as global marketers and product developers. And so just going back to the point about identifying the next big thing, we both felt Korean skincare and beauty was going to be the next big thing for the next few years. And this was 2014, when we had this aha moment while sheet masking and drinking wine. And we just felt the need to join forces, create a destination, a curation destination to bring the best of Korean skincare clean. Korean skincare, by the way. And clean was not even a thing. We called it harsh free and introduce what we felt were incredible innovations to the world, starting with the US market, but the rest of the world as well, because it was an E. Comm site and it was just crystal clear. The opportunity was very clear to us. We've done the research. We were always just compelled to introduce whatever was coming out of Korea. But also, I think it helped that we were friends and we were both passionate about this mission and project and that we could do it together.
- [07:17]
B
Yeah. So what's really interesting to me, two things. One, you guys were effectively paid to train and to prepare for launching Glow Recipe for over a decade. Right. A lot of founders, they naively usually come into a space and have to work out everything from scratch. So, you know, one of my mentors who co founded a multibillion dollar SaaS company always said to me, nathan, when I invest in in found, I'm always looking for what is the unfair advantage. And it's pretty clear you guys had an unfair advantage.
- [07:56]
C
Wow, that's a great way to think about investing too. You know, it is interesting that you say that about the founder background, because what we found out after sort of having this aha moment and wanting to do this together was we looked around and in the office, in the New York office of 10,000 employees, we were the only two Korean Americans living in New York City that were bilingual and bicultural and had both beauty experiences in Seoul and New York. And that was so unique. No one else had this uniqueness. And so we just felt really compelled that we had a point of difference and we were really able to do this in our own way. And the other thing that we saw in the market was Korean beauty was being introduced. But in eBay's and Amazons of the world without at that time, and this is over 10 years ago. Right. There was no storytelling, there was no brand sort of background. There was no philosophy or mission being shared. It was all about just products at accessible pricing or interesting ingredients that sounded almost exotic at times that were positioning the Korean Beauty in such a bucket, if you will. And we were compelled to break that barrier because we didn't want Korean Beauty to be exotic. We wanted it to be a broad appeal. We wanted it to be for the world. We knew that there were really amazing innovations and products that could change the game for a lot of people.
- [09:36]
B
Yeah. So I'm also curious. You said offline. You know, something that is often talked about is when co founder relationships go bad and you've got to be really careful, especially friends in business, you should never get into business with your friend. And, you know, obviously you and Christine had a really strong relationship. You know, similar backgrounds, similar upbringing, all of these different things. And, you know, you don't want to perhaps potentially jeopardize that friendship. What's your take there?
- [10:09]
C
Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I still tell her to this day and I hear the same feedback back from her. I don't think I would have co founded this business with anybody else but her. And she says the same thing. And it's not just because of the friendship that we had. I think we had this built in trust in each other, of the work ethic, the communication, the approach to things, especially when it comes to work. I think we just knew that about each other because of the friendship, but also the fact that we both met at l' Oreal and so we were trained in a similar way, and so we were molded and shaped in similar ways too. And what's also interesting is we get questions about the fact that we have similar backgrounds and a lot of entrepreneurs and people say it's best to have a co founder that can complement your skills, not overlap. You know, so we often see a CFO and a CMO meeting together and building a company together, and I think that's a great idea. But one thing that I will say about our relationship is that because we're so thoughtful and similar in the approach to things that we do, perhaps because of the background that we share, we don't have to explain or educate each other on anything. So the amount of time that we save in terms of even the communication factor of, hey, here's what I think this is why we don't necessarily have to go through that Pretty much ever. So that's why we've been able to actually work with speed together. And what's also amazing is that if she, you know, we're both mothers, she has a middle school girl and I have a two and a half year old toddler. And so we have different reasons to, you know, focus on family priorities at times. And when she's out, I can run the business or travel and she can kind of stay in New York and meet with the team members and run the business locally. There's different ways for us to kind of run the business without ever delaying things. So it just is such a massive advantage from our perspective. And even if we have disagreements, we know that it's a good small focus group that we're having before going to market because there will be somebody else that will have this, the same feedback as, let's say, Christine or myself. And so we would kind of position it that way versus thinking you versus me. And that really helped.
- [12:46]
B
Yeah, look, I can see that it's, it's you guys, whatever you guys got going on, it's super impressive. You know, you, you launched this business in 2014, we're now in 2025. So just, just over a decade, 11 years later, you guys are doing $300 million a year and you started with $50,000. That is impressive growth. Even in terms of earned, earned media, you guys are the top brand in terms of ear. You know, you've been on Shark Tank. I want to talk about that. I also want to talk about you started with a curation model, which is something that a lot of brands don't do. I have seen it in some circumstances, but it's not common. But let's talk about Shark Tank, because you were on shark tank in 2015, so only a year later you got on Shark Tank. And, and at that time, you guys were just curating Korean beauty products. You had, you know, glow recipe was effectively like a, you know, quote unquote online sephora, but a very, you know, just for Korean beauty.
- [13:56]
C
That's exactly right. And, you know, we actually thought it was a long shot because we started the company the second half of the year in 2014. And the application, or the open casting, if you will, of ABC Shark Tank started in April of 2015. So it was only six months in when we applied. So we both said this to each other, obviously, we need to get the word out there. We need to have exposure. But if this doesn't work out, excuse me, if this doesn't work out, we'll Try again next year. That's what we said to each other. The whole process was interesting because first of all, the open casting took place in New York City by Central park at ABC Studios. And it was April, but freezing cold. It was one of the coldest days for some reason. And just picture a bunch of entrepreneurs lined up from early morning for them to get into the door and they had a cutoff. They were not going to accept more than a certain number of people. So it was a real competition. Even starting from outside the door, it was, I mean, it was pure chaos. It just. As soon as they opened the door, there was a line. But then it started to kind of break and people were pushing each other to get inside. It was. But we managed to get in and we had some eye and sheet masks on our faces as soon as we walked in. So we definitely stood out from that lens. And we pitched a one minute sort of pitch that we practiced back and forth before. Like during, like in the line, we were practicing the lines and we actually messed up with the pitch. Like there were some lines that we screwed up and couldn't remember. We were very nervous. So we came out of it thinking, okay, we'll try again next year. I just, I don't think this is going to work. We also saw a lot of entrepreneurs in the same line that had beautiful stories, tear worthy, emotional. You know, we didn't have that. So we felt like there were, you know, other opportunities. But that's how it started. And we started getting phone calls from the producers a couple months later. And a few months later we were flying to Culver City in LA to film. And I mean, even that experience was really just interesting because we were told until the very last minute that we might not make it on there because at the end of the day, it is a reality show and, you know, the story has to be great, but also the segment has to be really compelling overall. And so we didn't know what we were getting ourselves into. But what we did do before going on that show was we practiced and we watched every single episode of Shark Tank leading up to that time. And we sort of put together our own Q and A and we practiced the lines back and forth. And that's just the great thing about having a partner. We were doing it together. It was like a simulation, if you will. But it also forced us to understand, like all the details about our own business, which was really helpful for us at the end of the day. And so we were prepared to answer any question that came our way. And when we were on set, there were five sharks grilling us with all the questions in no particular order. And it was just being fired at us. And I remember sweating and getting thirsty, dry lips. It was a whole experience I've never had before. But we ended up getting three offers out of the five sharks and shook hands with one of them. And it was just one of the most exhilarating, memorable experiences. I wouldn't change it for the world.
- [17:59]
B
Yeah. And so you agreed to. I think it was. You asked for 10. You asked for. I think it was. How much was it? What did you ask? It was for 10% you were looking for. It was 600,000. Right.
- [18:17]
C
It's been so long, but I think that's. That's right.
- [18:20]
B
Yeah. So you're looking for. For $600,000 for 10% of your company. And Robert Herjavec agreed on $425,000 for 25%. But then on air. But then, you know, you later didn't go ahead with it.
- [18:37]
C
That's right. We went on Shark Tank 1 to share everything about the company and our mission and our passion, but also to let the world know about this amazing world of Korean beauty. So I think from that sense, our mission was accomplished by being on that show. Two, we wanted to find a mentor. We wanted someone that we can rely on and really help us unlock things that we didn't know or we needed just mentorship overall on. And we were cash flow positive. So it wasn't the reason for being there, was not because we needed the money. It was really more about the mentorship. And in the end, we just decided to part ways amicably because that just wasn't the. That was not going to happen.
- [19:28]
B
What happened with the exposure?
- [19:29]
C
The exposure was incredible beyond our imagination because first of all, we sold out of every single item in a couple of days. It just was insanity. And you were given notice that you will be on air two weeks prior to it. And just imagine we had products from multiple brands that were all made in Korea and we were based in New York. And so. And we didn't know how to forecast it. And I mean, we talked to some other founders, we researched online of what people did, but there wasn't really the right formula. So we just kind of went with our guide order as much as we could, but even that was not enough. Our site crashed while the show was live, which was insane, too. And we actually ended up apologizing to our customers and asking for patience and grace as we were hoping to fulfill the Orders. And because we had a startup warehouse based in Brooklyn and they were a startup, they could not keep up with the demand. So we actually went on Craigslist, keeping everything very open and real here. We went on Craigslist and hired people just to, you know, to help pack and ship things with us. I mean, both Christina and I were in Brooklyn for two full weeks. Every single day. We had to stop everything and focus on packing and shipping. But we had several people that we hired for that to help us. And a fun fact from that experience, one of the hires from Craigslist really stood out. She was really organized, she knew what she was doing. And we hired her for a full time operational job on the spot. And she, nine years later, actually 10 years later, she's still our operational key employee of the company.
- [21:24]
B
There you go. That's awesome.
- [21:26]
C
But yeah, it opened a lot of doors, opportunities, the exposure, I mean it was aired, I think there was 9 million people in terms of viewership, which was not something you can get from any other media channel. This was just the best exposure you could imagine. And what I think was the most meaningful was that we were reaching Middle of America. We were reaching people that we would typically not really reach. I mean, we were pretty bi coastal when we looked at our distribution. And I still remember to this day getting emails from people from those regions. And one person really stood out to me. She was 70 years old, a woman, and she said that she'd never even heard of Korean Beauty before. But because of the episode, she ordered the routine kit, the shark tank routine kit that we had built to sell on site. And she tried them all. And now her husband compliments her skin and that she can take a selfie. That was, it just was really heartwarming.
- [22:29]
B
What a great story. That's why you do what you do, right?
- [22:33]
C
Yeah. I mean that's what keeps us so energized each and every day. I still read our clients emails and it's just, it's just so energizing and motivating. We actually at Glow Recipe today, we start every Monday team wide meetings with the customer care team, sharing emails and comments and DMs from our clients. And we don't start with numbers. We actually start with our community and the reaction from people. And it really grounds us, but also motivates us.
- [23:02]
B
Yeah, look, that's really special because you can talk big numbers, right? And sometimes it's easy to forget that behind those revenue numbers and traffic numbers, these are real everyday people like you. I. It's kind of you get lost between it, you know.
- [23:18]
C
Yeah, exactly. And sometimes you actually are making a big impact and that we're doing something that actually changes their skin care routine, but also their confidence, how they feel about themselves. I mean, it's pretty meaningful. And I also want to make sure the rest of the team knows that and feels that and gets energized because of that.
- [23:44]
B
Yeah, I agree. So one thing that's also interesting about you guys is you bootstrap the business and you were profitable pretty quickly. Can you talk us around how you did that? Because a lot of E commerce founders, you know, it takes a while to get profitable. It's very cash flow heavy. All these different things to talk us, talk us through that. Because you're profitable by month three, right?
- [24:15]
C
Month three. We were broken even. Yes, that was. I mean, I remember the first couple of months when we had our family and friends purchasing our products and we didn't have a lot of clients, but we were. So here's a interesting thing that I haven't really shared anywhere else, you know, to your point earlier about our experience and background, we kind of felt or gave ourselves a little bit of pressure. We have experience in beauty, we worked really hard. And if we hadn't started the company, we probably would have stayed at the large corporate. That was our dream job because we actually really loved it there. But now that we've done this and taken this entrepreneurial journey, what do we want to achieve in six months and one year? And we actually had a very vague but clear at the same time goal, which was $1 million within one year. And we said, you know, if we don't achieve that, we should rethink if this is the right path because we have experience, we have all the tools. We've never been entrepreneurs, so we have to learn along the way. But if it doesn't really have an outcome, then maybe this is not for us. So we had that in our mind. So we hustled. I mean, essentially that's what we did initially. We cold called cold emailed every magazine, media outlet, influencer, youtuber that we could find. We had a full list of, I think six to 700 people that we shared amongst the two of us. And we divided and conquered. And what we decided to do was to really study each and every target, journalist or influencer and read about, like, read their articles, like three months leading up to that day, or watch the YouTube videos. At that time, YouTube was really huge. It still is, but it was really the main channel for social media. Watch their Videos and learn about what their skincare concerns are, what their routines are, what they want, what their preferences are. And let's cuss, customize our approach to every single person. So we did that and we did not sleep for more than two hours a night for weeks until we got that project done. And you know, customization really works. You know, it just. People never heard of us, but they really appreciated the fact that we knew them so well through their articles or through their content. And we had a pretty good response rate. So what we did after that, I mean, we had to stop everything and just focus on that. Right? And that's, I mean, I think truly the hustling, the customization, the research, but just really being focused on getting that goal achieved during that short span of time, I think all sort of worked in our favor. And so when we got responses from Refinery29 or Birdie or Fashionista, and some of these just, you know, these editors are now like our close friends. But when they responded, we asked them, you know, if we could take them out for lunch or coffee. And we brought the skincare routine that we customized for them. We explained every single product and had them take them home and try them. And I think that also really helps. So one of the key sort of drivers of this break even moment was the editor of Refinery29 actually fell in love with the products that she took home after our lunch. And she wrote a very genuine first person review of all of the products that were given to her as a featured article just for glue recipe. And that was, I mean it was. I didn't even understand how she did that, but. And I didn't know until we started seeing orders come through like nonstop and started selling through, selling out of items. And then we tracked everything. And it was from that article. But yeah, it was, it was that moment when we actually broke even because her article wiped pretty much everything out from our website. But other articles pick that up, like msn, Yahoo. And then we reached out to those editors who picked those up and gave them the full customized routine for them. And we just had the same approach for each and every person that touched us or even mentioned us once and kept relationships and friendships. The Refiner 29 editor came to my wedding. She's still a dear friend. So it just started, but we've kept the relationships and I think that really opened new doors for us as well. That's just one example of what we've done. Of course we're running the website and we were, you know, doing a lot of trial and error. We learned how to do Photoshop ourselves. It was very bootstrapped, but I think that was the main reason why we were able to break even in three months.
- [29:39]
B
Look, that's really impressive. So you guys hit that goal of $1 million in one year?
- [29:45]
C
We did.
- [29:46]
B
It's interesting that you said if we didn't hit that, maybe this isn't for us, because that's really good growth. First. First business. First year, a million dollars bootstrapped.
- [29:58]
C
Yeah, it just. We felt like we had to do everything. We could throw every idea, energy, resources that we had, and if we give it our all, maybe we could get somewhere. Was a thought.
- [30:15]
B
Yeah, that's impressive.
- [30:15]
C
And again, we didn't sleep for more than two, three hours a night for a very long time. We didn't pay ourselves. The 50k that we had initially was primarily spent on inventory and some PR seating and the website. So we were very bootstrapped. We never, for the first year, we didn't do any digital advertising. We were just on social media. And we were very raw on social, which I think still is what matters. You're really open, transparent, raw. And we invited our audience along with us on our journey, our startup journey, and we kind of revealed the behind the scenes and people saw what was going on as entrepreneurs and as a startup. And I think that really helped a lot of people to actually be emotionally invested in our company as well.
- [31:09]
B
So, look, I don't know the skincare space and I didn't, I didn't know who you guys were back then. But you would. Are you saying effectively, you guys did founder led marketing, early days?
- [31:24]
C
Yes, that, yeah. But, you know, it's not because we wanted to. We, we just didn't really have any other choice or means or resources. So we were trying to just keep things a little efficient. But we also had a lot to say. Like, we were passionate about skincare and we wanted to educate people on everything that we've learned from our young age, from our mothers, but also from our experience at l'. Oreal. There are just things that we wanted to share and we had a very strong point of view on all things skincare. So we had a lot of tips and tricks. We started writing blogs and that did really well, by the way, as part of. It was part of the E. Com website. But a lot of people kind of started from the blog as well because they were interested in learning about the approach to skincare, the tips and tricks and how, you know, if you do one thing right, it can really change the Game, for example, one of the things that did really well, one of the topics that did really well on our blog was Ditch the Towel. That was the title. And essentially we said, if you want to really treat your skin in the most delicate way, which you should, because your skin is delicate and you should treat it like a baby, you should not use a towel after you wash your face. And that was very eye opening for a lot of people. And the reason for that is because if you use a towel and you rub your face, you tug, pull your face, you're going to create micro tears. And if those build up, they're going to compromise your skincare barrier, which is why then you get lines or overproduction of sebum or just the imbalance overall on your skin, the dryness. So, you know, again, like just kind of thinking of it as a lifestyle approach, but how that can change the approach of skincare and ultimately improve your skin. I think those are the tips and tricks that really resonated with our audience. And then we would introduce products along the way as well.
- [33:24]
B
Got you. So you did a lot of content and education, led marketing as well, and then incorporated both your, yourself and Christine as well. And then, I'm curious, so you guys were about five. No, sorry, three years in, then you started to develop your own products. Just to get a bit of an understanding, though, what could you share, like kind of where your revenue was at three years in to kind of go, you know what the bigger opportunity here is creating some of our own brands because it sounds like the business was growing super fast.
- [33:58]
C
Yeah, actually, I haven't shared this publicly, but. But I don't mind it. So year one, we did 1 million. Year two, we tripled, so we were 3 million. And year three, we were at 7. And we always dreamed of having our own brand. I mean, that's essentially what we did at l', Oreal. Right. We were developing products, creating lines and products and innovations. So it was ultimately the dream. But I think we started with a curation site because we wanted to first introduce this world of Korean skincare and the amazing sort of approach and philosophy coming out of Korean skincare. Not just products, but the overall approach and the mission to help people enjoy skincare was actually a really big passion of ours. We wanted to make sure people were not thinking of skincare as a choreography. That was a real challenge that I saw that Christine saw in the US and the Western world. A lot of people that we spoke with before we founded the company were saying, you know, I'm A busy mom or I have a busy schedule, or I'm lazy, and if I have to remove my makeup and moisturize, it takes up too much of my time. Like, I just, like, do it because I have to, but I hate it. Or a lot of people were focused on the results, but not the process. So if you look at the claims that were out on the market, they were all about repairing. Nothing was about prevention. And from a young age, we learned about the beauty and the power of prevention. Preventative skincare, but also just incorporating daily habits that can essentially delay the signs of aging and really keeping your skin healthy. So, again, these are the things that we wanted to introduce, and then we wanted to create our own brand and our line of products that kind of felt like they could fit under this umbrella, if you will, and continue and carry on with the same mission.
- [36:00]
B
So talk me through, because, you know, I think everyone that would be listening, watching this right now going, okay, you guys are very masterful. You've. You've. At creating great product, identifying product, where to, where to go. How would you. How did you come up with your first kind of product? How did you identify it? Like, talk us through that process if you have one that you could share with our community. Because. Because that's the game, right? Like, I believe personally that 80% of the game is just getting the right product and really getting it nailed. Now there's the messaging, the marketing, all of that kind of stuff, the positioning, the branding. But a big part of it is the product. You've got to get the product right.
- [36:43]
C
I fully agree. Product is king. We always say that. And innovation is at the. The center of everything that we do. The initial product that we launched was inspired by both of our childhood upbringing, which is that our grandmothers used to rub watermelon rind on our heat rashes. We both grew up in Korea when we were young, and in hot summer months, we used to get heat rashes on our arms, our backs, our back, of our knees. And again, the watermelon rhyme. We saw firsthand how miraculous. That gesture really helped. And our skin was soothed and hydrated within 24 hours. I mean, we just knew that. And it's a very Korean sort of ritual that a lot of people enjoy but also have great fond memories like us. And what's interesting is, like I said, just going back to the mission, we wanted to make sure that skincare was effective but joyful at the same time. And we did not see that anywhere. It was either an aisle of very serious clinical Science backed great products, but intimidating expensive doctor brands or kitschy cute packaging but not effective, low performing products. There was nothing that really combined the two worlds and we wanted to combine the best of both worlds because that's what we loved about the world of Korean skincare and introduced. And the first product that we launched, we wanted to make sure it had the fruit watermelon because of the childhood memory. But also we looked around and nobody had ever told a story around how watermelon is really effective on the skin and can truly effectively hydrate and calm your skin. The other factor was that we were because we're both entrepreneurs, but in skincare we always wanted to have glowing, radiant skin. No matter how little we slept. We wanted to look like we had full eight hours of sleep the next morning. And so we decided at the time to create a sleeping mask that works hard for you overnight without you having to do extra work. We just slather it on at night, you wake up to better glowing skin again even if you slept two hours. And that was our dream product. And so we included ingredients like aha and hyaluronic acid, which are clinically proven active ingredients, and paired those with watermelon which had a very high concentration of it. And together they created this amazing effective formula that was a very interesting, unprecedented gel like texture in a beautiful ice cube looking jar that was inspired by nature's ice cube watermelon. So it had a cooling sort of looking feel and aesthetic. And we also thought about every aspect of the customer's journey. We wanted to, you know, the customer to open the jar, smell it, feel great, touch it and really be pleasantly surprised, apply it and wake up to amazing skin but also want to show it off on their social media or their vanity. That was really important because we weren't going to spend any money on advertising. We wanted the product to educate itself. So the product name had to be really straightforward. The packaging had to be super catchy and compelling and beautiful to look at. And so that's why the initial product was born and because one, we were able to build the trust and credibility from our community for the first three years of building the curation website. And because this was such a unique product that was not in the market, it really, I mean it was pretty sensational. We sold out of it multiple times and it was the beginning of the rest of our journey.
- [40:31]
B
Yeah, I've got here that you sold out eight consecutive times upon launch. How many times you'd have to iterate it, how did you test it or you did you? Because you guys have been in the game so long, you just knew and you knew your community and you built, you know, a fan base and customer base for three years. You didn't have to do much testing and, like, talk me through that.
- [40:53]
C
No, we did a lot. We did extensive testing. Extensive testing. Because it was our first product. We knew in our gut that this was the right product to introduce for the first time, but we wanted to validate it over and over and over again with different skin types and tones and different age groups and different skin concerns. So we, we recruited people from our community through social media and. Excuse me, we recruited people from our social media through our social media and they came to our office. We did a lot of focus groups, groups. We conducted testing. We sent samples to them, had them sign NDA and try our products. It was, I mean, I would say hundreds of rounds of iterations. It was quite. It was. It was not normal, I can say that. And I think our chemist partner probably wanted to kill us because we were just too particular and we wanted to try small tweaks and make changes so many times. And of course we went to Korea and we met with them, made iterations together. But yeah, it ended up being hundreds of tweaks. And finally we felt like it was the right final approved formula. Approved formula that we could go out with.
- [42:25]
B
So how long did that take?
- [42:27]
C
I mean, we started really early again. It was always our dream to create our own brand. We wanted to do it at the right time. So definitely at least a year and a half, if not longer. But we were focused. I mean, we were very focused. And I still remember to this day having a white jar with a lab sample and a concept slide on an iPad. And we pitched to launch our own brand to the chief merchandising officer@sephora us back then. And I mean, she loved it right away. She said we should launch it and all doors. And I still have chills thinking about it. But that's how it all started with. Because we wanted to go to Sephora right off the bat and, and launch nationwide. And that was our dream. And we were able to do that.
- [43:25]
B
Yeah. And you guys ended up, you know, along the way becoming the number one skin care brand selling in the US and the UK in 2024 in Sephora. And I think that's a testament to your, you know, you and Christine's product development skills and, you know, just the way that you guys have approached building this business, it's not like, it's not, I guess it's not a surprise when you talk about the level of product development that you guys do do and how you've built this incredible business step by step, brick by brick.
- [44:07]
C
Well, thank you for saying that. I have to say, I credit l' Oreal a lot for the training that we both got for over a decade each. And, I mean, we really learned it the proper way. Right. I mean, now we're breaking a lot of rules and doing things a little bit differently than what we did back in the day. But the thought process and the research and making sure that no stone is unturned like that, all of those were things that we learned many years ago at l'. Oreal. And of course, I think really staying close to what our community had to say and listening to their feedback and honoring the feedback, I think was really what also helped drive the business and innovation overall.
- [44:55]
B
Talk me through things that haven't worked along the way because you have had challenges as well building a business at this scale. Eventually you did raise money as well to accelerate the growth. But, yeah, talk me through some challenges.
- [45:09]
C
Yeah, I mean, one, it was our first time being entrepreneurs. So, you know, we were running the business and learning along the way. You know, everything was a first. Even though we had the beauty background, being a founder is a whole different ball game. So, you know, even working with vendors or 3 PL warehouses or hiring people or managing budget, I mean, we ran P Ls in our previous lives, but this was a different way to approach your P and L. We didn't have a lot of budget to begin with. So we're always trying to be as bootstrapped as possible. So I think, you know, looking back, because we had this mentality from the very beginning, we had only 50k to work with. We kind of held on to not hiring senior talents until much later on. So that's one of the things. If we kind of reflect on what we could change, you know, that's just something that could have made our lives a little bit easier, to be honest. We made a lot of mistakes along the way. For example, we had to air freight our products from Korea constantly. And that, you know, really just was not healthy for our margin structure, as you can imagine, initially. But we were also trying to be conservative with how much we were spending initially with our inventory. And then it just ended up being snowballing with.
- [46:41]
B
Yeah, because you can't keep up margin.
- [46:42]
C
Itself, you know, so just learning along the way. But those were some big mistakes, if I look back, that affected how we could have just done the business a little bit more efficiently earlier on. And sometimes, you know, you always say, and you hear this from every other founder, and I strongly feel that you have to always listen to your gut. But there were many moments when we felt that maybe we didn't know better. And, you know, when, let's say, a merchant or, you know, a mentor in this space or other founders were saying, this is what works and this doesn't work, we would sort of like, listen and follow suit. And they didn't always work for us. We are who we are for a reason, and we could have done things that were just suitable for our brand only. So looking back, we just need to stay in our lane, focus on what makes sense for this brand, not anybody else. We should listen to others, but not always take action accordingly. I think it's a big lesson that we've learned along the way. And also with the curation too. I mean, that overlapped with our creation, if you will, our own line of products. And it was hard to let go of the curation. You know, it was just. I mean, it was blood, sweat and tears, right, of even bringing those brands on and having those relationships. And some of those founders of the Korean brands are dear friends, you know, so we didn't want to let go of those relationships. And. And some of the products did incredibly well. And so we would be losing millions of dollars if we drop them and just pivot. So I think we could have pivoted a little earlier than we did, but, you know, just, we're all humans and we have so much heart and love, and it was just a hard, hard decision that we had to make. Once we did, it was the best decision, and we knew that. And it really helped us focus a little bit more and just, you know, focus on innovations. And our community welcomed that, actually. And we helped those founders connect with big retailers in the US So it was beneficial for them too. And we made sure that our customers knew where to shop those products. So it was a whole, you know, process that we didn't take lightly, but it was a difficult decision. And again, looking back, we could have pivoted a little earlier and made our teams lives easier too.
- [49:09]
B
Yeah, that's. Yeah, that would be. Yeah, that's an interesting transition of itself because you guys went from basically a general store for Cabrian beauty to building your own brands. But from a commercial perspective, it makes sense.
- [49:24]
C
It just makes sense. You know, again, the team had to focus. They couldn't do a million things. And we didn't want to confuse our Community and customers too. It just. And also what was telling, the most telling was any content that we posted with our own line of products had the highest engagement. So our community was telling us that we needed to focus on our line of products only.
- [49:51]
B
How'd you come up with the name Glow Recipe?
- [49:56]
C
First of all, in Korean skincare, glow is guang is the word that everybody uses every single day. It's part of everyone's conversation. If you sit in a coffee shop in Korea, which, by the way, there's a million coffee shops in Seoul, you'll hear people next to you like you're the next table, talk about complimenting each other's guang. It's just part of how people think about the beauty standard, how people define beauty, how people, you know, set their goals in terms of what they want to look like. Glow is what everyone is obsessed with in Korea. And so we wanted to translate that, bring it here, and bring the best tools, education, content, products, innovations. Basically the recipe to achieve God. And so it had a real meaning. And Glow, by the way, just now, from a market perspective, Glow was a rising key search word at Google, and a lot of brands and products were wanting to achieve that end result. But there was no one that was owning Glow like we did. And that was just a real opportunity. I'm still blessed that we were able to get the trademark.
- [51:19]
B
Yeah, there you go. So you guys have the trademark for just Glow?
- [51:23]
C
No, Glow recipe is the trademark. But even, I mean, the word recipe is not a unique word if you think about it. And because of SEO, we wanted to make sure that the name wasn't too unique and the words that combined together to create the name were words that people could easily understand. That was actually a parameter that we set first.
- [51:49]
B
Yeah, interesting. Okay, look, Sarah, I could talk to you all day about building this business, but we have to walk towards wrapping up. I'm curious just around the social space, because you guys were early tick tock. You've done exceptionally well there. What advice would you give to founders when it comes early stage founders? When it comes to using social media to drive growth and sales for your.
- [52:17]
C
Brand, I think the biggest keyword that we also internally always use is transparency. And I think that's such a key word for social media too. I think one of the reasons why we were able to grow our TikTok presence was one, we were early adapters. We're one of the first brands in beauty to really jump on that. But two, we kind of kept things real and, you know, we weren't shy about sharing maybe more than we could. For example, we were the first skincare brand that showcased the behind the scenes of how the product was made, from the formulation to actual scenes of the factory and the labs. And I mean, I think people were so mesmerized when we actually share that for the first time a few years ago. And now you see so many brands kind of going in the factory and showing, you know, that the conveyor belt and how things are being made a little bit more closely, but it wasn't ever a thing at that time. And so I think just trying something new for the first time. Not being shy about sharing transparently what goes out behind the scenes and keeping things real and not too polished, I think, is one of the key reasons why I think a lot of people resonated with us. The second thing that I would say is, you know, really staying true to the brand value. And you hear this often, but how do you convey that, you know, for us, individuality, diversity are such keywords that we are very passionate about. Ultimately, we are inspired by Korean skincare, and we're a brand founded by two Korean American founders, female founders. So individuality and diversity are very important core values for the brand. So we decided to really make that more relevant for our community by, I guess, coming up with this phrase, real skin or real skin acceptance, if you will, and saying to our audience that it's okay to have acne and pores at flaws and concerns. It's all about the process and the journey. And you'll continue to improve if you're diligent and consistent with the right tools, the right education, but you're never going to have perfect skin. So let's keep it real and it's okay. But we all go through the ups and downs. We go through cycles when your skin looks amazing, but when you travel a lot, it actually could look really bad the next day. And so how do you accept that but still strive to have healthy, improved skin over time and let us, you know, hold hands with you was, you know, our philosophy that we set out. And so we actually made a pledge to our community saying that we would never use unrealistic words that were always used in the traditional norms of beauty, like flawless, like perfect skin, like ageless, like poreless. We stopped using any or we actually never used those words. But we also made sure that we audited every single touchpoint, e comm, social media to make sure none of those unrealistic words were ever used. And if they were, we would erase them and we made a pledge for future we would never do that and we announced it a few years ago and that's probably one of the most engaged posts to this date. Because our community felt seen and heard and wanted a brand to say that instead of setting unrealistic standards. And to this day that's one of the important sort of values that we try to communicate and showcase through our content and social media.
- [56:05]
B
Yeah, look, I really respect that and I think in today's age with social more than ever, the more transparent, the more vulnerable you can be. Just the deeper the relationship, the more trust you can build with your community. So we have towards wrapping up. One last question I wanted to ask you Sarah, if you could give one piece of advice or any words of wisdom for our community that are looking to either start, grow or scale their e commerce brand, what would it be to you know, even get close to building a brand with the amount of impact and customers that you guys have.
- [56:42]
C
Built to entrepreneurs or to people that want to become entrepreneurs. So if, well I have advice for the two different groups if you will. If you are wondering if you should be an entrepreneur or not, my advice to you is it's okay to dream big. You know, you might think this is a crazy idea. You might think that, you know, people might judge you for it, you might think that, you know, this may never happen. But a lot of founders who have grown their company have thought of something unique and different and that's why they're at. So I would say just dream big, do it. Doing is better than contemplating and debating for a long time. Just start. Even if it's a rough start. And initially when you're starting, nobody's really looking at your website or your social media. You have to grow it to even have an audience. So it's okay. There's no right time. Get started and then explore trial and error and you'll know if that's the right path or not for you. So that's for the people that are thinking about being entrepreneurs. And I wish I had this advice from other entrepreneurs when I was going through that sort of thought process. For the entrepreneurs that want to continue to grow their business, I would say having a tribe of trusted fellow founders or mentors or friends, friends, peers, doesn't matter outside of your company that you can, you know, leverage as sounding board or even just picking their brain for small to big things. Even having casual conversations can sometimes inspire you and be game changing. And I definitely had a lot of moments like that. So having people like that, that surround you will make a massive difference. So make sure you create that tribe for yourself as a founder and a leader and always be open minded to listen to others.
- [58:52]
B
Incredible. Well look, Sarah, thank you so much for your time. Congratulations on all of your success and thank you for coming on.
- [59:00]
C
Thank you for having me. This was really fun.
- [59:02]
B
Hey Founder fam. Thank you so much for tuning in today and if you enjoyed this episode, please take the time to leave us a review and let us know what you think. This podcast is 100% free. We work so hard to go out and find the most successful founders and entrepreneurs all around the globe. So your feedback helps us grow, improve and even bring on more incredible guests and insights. So if you have a second, please take a moment and leave us a RA review. It really means a lot to me and the founder team. It makes so much of a difference.
- [59:35]
A
Thank you again for listening and I'll catch you on the next episode.