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651: From 7 Years In Recruitment To $60K In 6 Months Selling Mouth Tape
00:30:32
Michael Forshaw read a book, taped his mouth shut every night for a year, and then built a business out of it — launching Breath Sleep Tape from idea to live store in just ten weeks.
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- [00:02]
A
Hey, founder fam. I want to talk to you about something super exciting. We're officially partnered with Omnisend, the email marketing and SMS platform built specifically for e commerce founders. We've been recommending Omnisend to founder students for a while now because it just works. Whether you're launching your first store or you're scaling to seven figures, it really helps you automate your marketing and get real results. Did you know, on average, OMNISEND customers make $68 for every $1 they spend, which is an insanely good return. And because you're part of the founder community, you get 50% off your first three months with the code. Founder50. Just head to omnisend.com founder without the e to get started. All right, now let's jump back into the show. Welcome to Little Empires, brought to you by the team at Founder at Founder. Our mission is to support the next generation of ECOM founders. And so while you may know us for interviewing some of the world's most successful entrepreneurs, this series is a little different. Little Empires shines a spotlight on the builders inside our own founder community. The entrepreneurs who are in the trenches, taking action, learning and building their businesses in real time. These aren't overnight success stories. These are real journeys, real lessons, and real founders creating their own little empires one step at a time. This podcast is proudly produced by the founder team to give our students a platform to share their experiences, wins, challenges and honest realities of building a business from the ground up. Now let's dive into today's episode.
- [01:39]
B
Here we are. Welcome to the Founder Lilloompires podcast. We are here today with Michael Forshaw. His brand is Breath Sleep Tape. Michael launched his brand in only 10 weeks and and he made $60,000 in the first six months. So, Michael, it is great to have you here on the Little Empires podcast. How you going?
- [02:02]
C
Good, thanks, Leah. Great to be here and hopefully I can help fellow members or people who are interested in building a business.
- [02:09]
B
Yeah, of course. Hopefully inspire some members of our community to grow their brand like you have yours. So I want to start off by going to basically where it all began and let's look back to what your life was like perhaps before you even launched the brand. Tell us a bit about where you were at and what inspired you to launching an e commerce business.
- [02:29]
C
So I was working in recruitment at the recruitment company, been doing that for about six, seven years. Feeling a little bit, probably burnt out, little bit bored, needed to do something different. And then me girlfriend's friend, I believe signed up for The Start and Scale course through founder. So she had an idea which she wanted to pursue. So I was asking her questions about it, about the course and the training and everything, and then just decided to sign up. Not really with a business idea in mind at the time, but just feeling like I wanted to do something different and then. Yeah, that's sort of where the journey began from there.
- [03:08]
B
Okay. All right. And so you come from the recruitment industry, so you've definitely got some sales experience. Did you have much experience in the way of digital marketing, product development, anything like that?
- [03:22]
C
No. And I think that was the biggest. The biggest learning curve for me definitely was realizing how much I didn't know, particularly when it comes to websites, Google, Facebook, digital marketing, like you said. Yeah, it was. It was a bit of an eye opener really. Probably I thought because I was relatively young, I was pretty good on, you know, social media and stuff, but definitely such a huge gap in me knowledge at the time. But I think one thing you learn is that the skills that you learn along the way, they're always going to be with you. You know, it doesn't matter what you do, you can always refer back to them. And it's just about learning and adding more value to yourself, really.
- [04:00]
B
Yeah. And so you set out to develop a whole new skill and look at what you produced. So let's, let's get into it. I want to tell, tell the community, tell our listeners about Breath Sleep Tape. I've got a packet here with me. Breath Sleep tape is a mouth tape that you use while you're sleeping. So, Michael, tell us a bit more about how the product came to life and the problem that it solves.
- [04:23]
C
Yeah, so probably about a year before that, before I signed up to find her, I read a book called Breath by James Nestor. So the book basically sort of tracks James, who's the author, his journey through a lot of breathing issues and issues he's had with his health throughout the course of his life, which he never realized until he was in his mid-40s. Were. Were due to the way he basically breathed. Within the book, they talk about how mouth breathing is very bad for our health and how mouth taping at night can negate a lot of health issues and improve sleep quality, reduce blood pressure, improve brain health, the way our lungs perform, everything. So it was a bit of opener. So for the next 12 months I started mouth taping, but I was just using like random bits of tape. So I just get tape from and I. It'll just be like. It'd be quite uncomfortable and like I'd wake up in the morning, like the tape would like be stuck to me face and stuff like that. So it was only after then starting to find a course and I started like learning the fundamentals of, of E commerce and different things to think about within like a successful product. I thought, why don't I look at doing a mouth tape? And yeah, that's sort of how it began from there.
- [05:43]
B
Okay. And so you learned, you learned a lot about mouth taping through this book. Right. And then you've obviously gone through mouth taping in your own experience. And so you mentioned here that you, you experimented with a few different tapes. Were they like that muscle tape or
- [06:01]
C
like just a classic like roll of like white tape that you'd get from, from the pharmacy or something?
- [06:07]
B
Yeah.
- [06:07]
C
And I just like rip a bit off, put it on. But one thing I did notice, like straight away was different to me sleep quality even when I was using this, this slightly uncomfortable type of tape. And at the time, I feel like now maybe mouth taping has become a bit, A bit more. People are more aware of the benefits and stuff. But back then, like, I probably knew maybe, like maybe only myself who's doing was obviously it looks pretty strange, but yeah, it was apparent to me that I'd felt the benefits myself. I knew that if I could share the product with enough people and make people aware of the benefits, that potentially be a successful business day.
- [06:47]
B
Yeah, okay. And you. So you started to see those benefits. You talk about improved blood pressure, brain health, lung health, you started to see those benefits yourself. And that would have been so validating in the idea of this product. Right. And so that leads me to what did, what did you see out there in terms of competitors, other mouth tape brands?
- [07:10]
C
I did see one or two I can't even like, do. And I know after we started working through the process, we, we become aware of like a big American company, but I'd actually never heard of them before we started. I'd seen one or two other brands which they had sort of the packaging with individual strips, but it was obviously something that I knew I could take in its own direction and, and build myself.
- [07:34]
B
And so going about it in your own way and setting yourself apart in this space. What, what in your opinion would be the reason that consumers would buy Breath Sleep Tape over alternatives on the market?
- [07:48]
C
I mean, it's something that, you know, I live in Breathe, no pun intended. You know, I wear this, the product myself every night. I can't sleep without it. There's no sort of like gimmicks or I'm not trying to sell something that I don't fully believe in. Even if I'm having a nap in the afternoon, Even if it's 20 minutes, I can't not sleep with the tape on because if I don't, I just wake up. And my mouth, because I'm a big mouth breather at night, Unfortunately. So like 70% of the population would breathe through the mouths at night, it's estimated to some extent. So if you're breathing through your mouth, you're waking up like dehydrated with a dry mouth. I just hate that. And your sleep quality is diminished because of that. So it's something that I do myself. I'm passionate about it. It's something that I genuinely believe can help people. I think now more than ever people need to look after themselves and care about their own well being and take responsibility for that as much as they can. I know there's a lot of things out, there's some things which may be outside of our control, but as best as we can, we' got to try and look after our, our own health and our own mental health. And I think this impacts both, of
- [08:57]
B
course, and you could tell that you're really passionate about it. It's a lifestyle change that you've made and you've developed a product out of this, this really consistent lifestyle change where you've experienced these sorts of health benefits. And what was that like in terms of validating your own product? Did you, did you get the idea out there to people in your network to validate that this was a product that you can sell, make money off of before ordering stock?
- [09:27]
C
Yeah, I definitely went through like a bit of a product validation process. It's tough as well because despite me knowing the benefits and you know, there's probably, it still is probably quite a niche thing because it looks so strange and it seems so restrictive, even though we naturally will breathe through our noses at night if our mouths are closed. So we're just basically enabling nasal breathing. So in terms of product validation, I was obviously, I identified a lot of people who I knew who may be interested in this type of thing. There was definitely and a lot through that process there was great feedback, you know, people saying stuff like, I don't know if I'd try it because I might, I feel like I get suffocated and stuff like that, which that would never happen and I know that not to be the case, but it's good to get that perspective back from the market so to speak. So those type of responses are things that you can then add into the marketing down the track to highlight that, you know, it's safe, that's nothing to worry about, and you can sort of utilize that. But in terms of market research, it was something that I just knew was gaining traction anyway, and I knew that there'd be a big enough market there for it.
- [10:37]
B
Tell us a bit about what your first iteration of the products looks like compared to what it looks like now. I know this, this little breathing hole in the middle has something to do with it. Can you talk us through that?
- [10:49]
C
Yeah, yeah. So, again, the hole is just like an example of, you know, we took some of the feedback on board from people saying, oh, I'd feel like I'd suffocate. So the hole is there as a way to put people's mind at ease, that they've got somewhere to breathe out of if they really feel like they'd need to. Which 99% of the time, once you're comfortable breathing through your nose at night, you wouldn't really need to breathe through your mouth anyway. So that hole is something that, yeah, we, we added in for that from that basis, really. Just more for peace of mind for customers who may be on the fence about. About giving it a try. And because we've had all the customers who've complained about the hole because they don't want the hole, because they're so used to mouth taping that they think the hole actually causes them to be able to breathe slightly out of the mouth. So you're never really going to please anyone. But, you know, the little gap is important, I think, for the peace of mind.
- [11:44]
B
Yeah. And so that tiny little hole in the middle of the mouth tape would be a way that you can bring in new customers to your community, ones who are perhaps apprehensive about mouth taping for exactly eight hours a night. And that. That's an example of how using customer feedback can help to continue to iterate and iterate and refine the design of your product. And so I'm keen to get into manufacturing and supplying. So what were those first conversations like? Around minimum order quantities. Pricing timelines tell us a bit about that.
- [12:20]
C
Yeah, so from memory, there was an old founder, had some great templates which are utilized to send the initial emails to different suppliers and manufacturers. Obviously going through China, they specialized in these types of products. So we dealt with a number of, got a number of samples originally, done a lot of test, and, you know, there was some which were good but they were quite abrasive. You know, there was actually some in the early days thinking back where some of the samples where I'd wake up in my mouth, it'd be quite, quite red in the morning and obviously everyone's skin is going to have a different, you know, sensitivity level. But we saw, we gave them out the samples to as many people as possible so they were trying them, they were giving their feedback and then we, we narrowed it down to one supplier who we're still working with today. They've been really good to deal with and terms of minimum order quantity I believe it was probably. So We've got a 30 day pack which is a month supply. We've also got a seven day pack which is like a smaller intro pack if you like, which you can actually get for free on the website and just pay for, for shipping. So I think we ordered a thousand of each to start with. At the time we were based in New Zealand, so we got them sent to New Zealand. I think it took about three to four weeks from the time we placed the order. I think the first order we, we had to place 50% and then paid the remainder when, when it was ready to be shipped all through Alibaba. So it was all secured and everything. Now we only have to pay 30% up front and then the remainder when the product's ready to be shipped.
- [13:58]
A
If you're listening to this episode, you're probably running a brand and trying to figure out how to scale your ads without burning cash. And that's exactly why we built Founder Operators. It's our private membership where Nick Shackelford himself and the founder team, who are the operators behind $200 million in profitable ad spend, actually work with you every week. They get inside your numbers, diagnose what's holding you back and really help you learn how to scale your ads. This isn't a course, it's not a community full of beginners. It's really a room of serious direct to consumer founders with a team that's managed $10 million a month in ad spend telling you what to fix and in what order. So if that sounds like something you'd be interested in, you want help scaling your ads. You want to be part of a like minded community of D2C operators, go to founder.com forward/formators or hit the link in the show notes.
- [14:57]
B
Okay, and so that 50% upfront, what did that cost you to get started?
- [15:02]
C
I'd probably estimate around 4, 4 to 5,000. Australian US yeah, Australian dollars.
- [15:10]
B
4 to 5,000. Australian dollars for the 50% upfront and then 50% once the stock arrived, once
- [15:17]
C
it was ready to be shipped.
- [15:19]
B
Okay.
- [15:19]
C
But it's all through Alibaba, so it's all secured and everything like that, you know, so your payments are sort of through that platform. Everything's logged. I think everything's insured as well in terms of, don't quote me on that, but in terms of payment protection and then obviously you can check with the suppliers in terms of their rating and the certifications and stuff like that. So you've got assurances that, okay, if I'm paying for something, the lag it's
- [15:45]
B
going to arrive, okay, so about $8,000 to $10,000 Australian dollars for that first order, that first run. And I want to ask you a bit more about your packaging, right, because what's really clever about Breath Sleep tape, the mouth tape and the packaging is very lightweight, easy to ship. Can you tell us about these, these pouches and how that would have really saved a lot of costs with your, with your postage?
- [16:12]
C
Yeah, yeah. Well I think again that's one of face like fundamentals that on the founder course and in e commerce is obviously whatever you shipping, you want it to be as light as you want it to be as cheap as possible because that, that's going to eat into your costs. Light, durable, not something which is going to break. And obviously mouth tape, it's very light. It's not really going to break. Well, it's not going to break. So it did sort of fit all the requirements which would make it, you know, suitable for e commerce. I think obviously the only, the only thing for us as a business is, you know, we talk about average order value. That is probably on the lower side, but we've tried to increase that through like different combo deals, bundles, discounts. If you were to buy a six month supply, for example, to increase that average order value to me to make that as high as possible. But yet in terms of the, the shipping costs, we were able to keep that as low as possible just due to the lightweight product really.
- [17:12]
B
All right. And to like you said, to increase your average order value, you've created bundles available for customers to lock them into say a six month subscription option. That's a way that you've increased average order value.
- [17:26]
C
Yeah, not so much a subscription option but we've got like what, what we call it the ultimate bundle. So basically it's like a six month supply of mouth tape and we also do nasal strips as well. So that's another way that we've sort of diversified and add more options for the customer. So we'll do like a, yeah, six months supply of mouth tape or a six month supply of nasal strips. And typically there'll be about a 35% discount if you were to buy the six month supply compared to just a one month pack. And then we also do combo deals with. You buy one pack of tape, one pack of nasal strips, you save like 20%. Stuff like that.
- [18:05]
B
Of course. Okay. Being really clever and intentional around how you can bundle together products to increase what the average customer is going to spend when they check out of your store. Now you are a member of our E commerce coaching program and you worked with Jake to get to launch. I can't believe I love telling people about the story of you launching within 10 weeks. Going from idea to having a live store making sales in 10 weeks. Tell us a bit about how Jake helped you to get there.
- [18:37]
C
Like without Jake, I don't, I don't know, it'd just be. Still be an idea because there was so many, I think when you start anything new, you know, if I was to say like Facebook ads to someone who'd never done Facebook ads and obviously Facebook ads can be quite complex but in my mind anyway I was, I was like approaching everything thinking like I don't even know where to start or I don't even. There's so many things where I didn't even know where to begin really. And Jake just sort of broke it all down, very structured and was like, right, here's what we need to do is even like, you know, suppliers like 3pls, like we've got a 3pl in China, we've got one in New Zealand as well. So even just things around that because there's so much stuff which you know, you think how am I going to overcome this, gonna overcome that? And obviously having someone there who's been there and done it and been really successful was just amazing early. So yeah, a big part of getting to launch in that time frame was like I sort of had the date in mind that I was like I really want to make this work in this time frame. But then without Jay with the actual structure and the guidance, it definitely wouldn't have been achievable.
- [19:50]
B
Yeah. So getting that, getting that right support and guidance from someone who has started and scaled an E commerce brand before. Yeah. Let's get into a bit of the marketing strategies. So you mentioned that you have used paid advertising. Perhaps tell us a bit about the channel that has consistently brought you sales.
- [20:11]
C
A Big one for us is actually Google. It's quite consistent. It's probably a difficult one which you could scale, scale, scale off Google, but for us it's quite consistent. And again, just a process I went through with Jake of really sort of refining the different Google Ads and the, the way we structured the different accounts and campaigns and stuff and how we tags at keywords. But I think with Google, you know, if you've got someone who's interested in mouth taping, for example, they type in, you know, mouth taping into Google and your. One of your brand is one of the first that comes up. There's a high chance that when they go to the website they're going to convert. So the conversion rate off Google seems to be pretty high. Facebook is one which is obviously the probably key one for most people. And we've had mixed success with, with Facebook. I think we've had some good content which is really delivered and then we've had times where it's been a little bit frustrating and not really getting the results we were hoping for. So, yeah, I think probably Google's the main one in terms of consistency and then meta is, is one which is always going to be there and can always do well, particularly certain times of the year and particularly with if you've got a good, you know, winning piece of content.
- [21:23]
B
Okay, awesome. Thank you. Now I want to, I want to get into more around the story of you reaching 60k total sales in the first six months. I mean, the fact that you launched in only 10 weeks is incredible. And then also to generate that many sales in the first six months. Tell us about that. That's, that's exceptional.
- [21:47]
C
Thank you. Yeah, I think when you, when you sort of put on everything into something and you're really, really sort of going for it, it's surprising what you can, you know, your own energy can just take it a long way just from barely wanting to do something. You know, it definitely wasn't easy. Even though it's a nice like number, it was, it was probably late, allowed it to become quite stressful at times when it maybe didn't need to be on reflection. You constantly trying to sort of go that way. But it was great. And I think it was, like I said, it was down to alongside of that. I was still working with Jake, so I still had his guidance, his knowledge, which I was trying to implement as best as I can. So the two was, you know, working together and putting that sort of effort in. The results were going to come. Really.
- [22:32]
B
What was it like on Your launch
- [22:34]
C
day, it was definitely surreal. And again, you know, I remember the. Because I think the fair sale was actually a friend of mine. So, like, that was. That was nice of him. Join me. But then the sec. I think the second one was just a random person. I think his name was Carlos. Well, his name was Carlos, but I still remember. So he lived in like here. I think he lived in Christchurch in New Zealand. And I was like, do I know him? And then I realized he must have just come across it and wanted to buy it. So then in that moment there's the validation of like or. Because until then you don't really know. And then. Yeah. And then it sort of gives you the belief then that, okay, someone out there wants to actually pay money for this. And then it just reaffirms everything.
- [23:15]
B
So then fast forward to today. How long has Breath Sleep Tape been around for now?
- [23:19]
C
It's approaching two years now. We launched the end of June 2024
- [23:25]
B
and so approaching two years. How is Breath Sleep Tape going today? How are your sales tracking?
- [23:31]
C
Very good. In that time, like I said, I've probably been on a journey with the business and also a journey reviewing what do I want success to look like as a business owner. And I think everyone's in different. Got different circumstances in their lives. And so for me, I thought there's definitely a lot of reward in matter. For example, when you prepare to put the time in and stuff like that. I decided to scale matter back and just go more organic in terms of just like local community outreach, you know, providing free samples to not just influencers per se, but, you know, sports people or people who are interested in health and wellness. Just really sort of trying to take that approach. So obviously saving a lot of money on marketing, a lot of my time and effort and energy around marketing strategy. And then in return, top line revenue is probably lower, but the actual profits line is probably higher and finding a lot more rewarding, I'd say, because the. Again, I know everyone's at different stages the business and stuff, but when you, if you're trying to do everything yourself, it can be quite challenging at times. So I think the sort of organic approach for me is definitely been working well over the last few months for the business.
- [24:43]
B
Yeah. And that's a lesson absolutely worth sharing. Right. Reassessing why did I get into business in the first place? You're two years, almost two years into the brand and just taking a step back and looking strategically at what do I want this to be for me and not just growing for Growth sake make right. You've really looked at what is revenue versus profit. How can I focus on growing more organically? How can I focus on getting involved in my local community? Pop ups, activations, opportunities where you can get your product out there and stay really close to your customer as well.
- [25:19]
C
Exactly. Yeah.
- [25:21]
B
It's refreshing to hear that perspective looking back to how you're, how you're looking to grow and in what way.
- [25:27]
C
If things become too transactional, you know, the enjoyment and the passion, you know, it becomes a pattern. That that's what, that's what it is. Do you know what I mean? Whereas if it's more natural and genuine, I think you feel better about what you're doing as well.
- [25:41]
B
Yeah. Not becoming too transactional because remembering that this was a product and a brand that came to life out of a topic that you completely adopted in your, in your day to day routine, it's something that you became passionate about. It changed the way that you sleep, you improved your health overall and then you're sharing that with the world through the power of building a brand. So I think it's really powerful to not forget that and not forget why you started in the first place. That leads me to ask you, fast forward to almost two years with your E Commerce brand. How has your life changed personally, financially, mentally, work wise? Like what would be the biggest thing that's changed now?
- [26:24]
C
I've definitely gone through a lot of personal developments and it's opened up my, you know, beforehand and it's easy to forget but beforehand I just had, you know, I would done recruitment, that's what I'd done. My sort of, like I said at the beginning, my sort of skills base was solid in the niche that I was in. Whereas now I feel like I've got a lot of skills which theoretically I know I could apply to a number of other areas, whatever it may be. Yeah, it's probably just opened doors and options and I'd say in terms of more just personal growth and development is the biggest thing for me really and that's probably the biggest lesson I'd pass on to anyone who was starting is that it's not going to necessarily like. And Jake actually said it to me when we started, he was like, I can't guarantee that this is going to be a success but what I can guarantee is you're going to have the skills and the knowledge and have learned enough that you can then apply it to anything else you want to do in the future. That's probably where I'm at in Terms of what I've learned the most over the last couple of years is the progression in myself.
- [27:28]
B
Absolutely. And it's such a great growth mindset to have all of the skills, the knowledge that you've gained that you can apply to all areas of life and also upcoming ventures and growing breath, sleep, tape in general. So that leads me to. I think we'll work towards wrapping. It leads me to asking if the Michael from two years ago saw you and where the brand is at today, what would he think?
- [27:55]
C
It's a good question because at the time I think my mindset was like, this is going to be 50 million. This is going to, you know, do all these crazy numbers. But I think that version, even though it was only a couple of years ago, was probably focused on the wrong thing. Do you know, like focused outwardly instead of starting from inward going out, you know, 50 million is great, but what it, what, what's the sacrifice on the other side to get there? And if it's not coming with the focus, being yourself, starting and then building something outwards, then I don't think anyone's going to get to those types of numbers. But, yeah, not to say that those numbers won't be there in the future either.
- [28:34]
B
Yeah, of course it pushes you to reflect on how far you've come and what the brand has turned into. And so what would you say to someone who is in the position that you were in just starting out two years ago?
- [28:49]
C
I'd say whatever it is you want to do, make sure there's enthusiasm and passion behind it and it's something that you genuinely care about, because then that'll make it easier. You know, I know it's a bit of a cliche, but, you know, I think we're all taught that we've got to go to school and get a job in something that you know in the same sector or do this or do that. But if you find something that you enjoy, it doesn't feel like work, you're happy to get up and do it. And it's definitely always worth trying it because the only thing you're going to lose is a little bit of financial investment, but you're going to gain a lot more in terms of knowledge, skills, confidence, all these things.
- [29:27]
B
So, absolutely, it's so good to hear that from you. Such a reflection on learning and experience and learning as you, as you grow a brand. So, Michael, thank you for being a member of the Founder Little Empires podcast. I've really, really enjoyed interviewing you and it's been so great to bring your story to our community than Leah.
- [29:47]
C
My pleasure.
- [29:48]
A
Hey Founder fam, thank you so much for tuning in today and if you enjoyed this episode, please take the time to leave us a review and let us know what you think. This podcast is 100% free. We work so hard to go out and find the most successful entrepreneurs and founders in the world. Your feedback helps us grow, improve, and even bring on more incredible guests and insights. So if you have a second, please take a moment, leave us a review. It really makes a difference. Thanks again for listening and I'll catch you on the next show.