Getting involved with Free Software is not just for technical people and programmers. For more than 20 years now, Fred, a journalist based in Goa, has been writing about Free Software, about people involved with free software and enabling people to discover and connect with each other. His writing, support and encouragement has helped many community members and helped get a spotlight on their work and contributions.

In this episode, Frederick Noronha walks us through the history of the free software community in India, his perspectives on sharing knowledge, how he got involved, why he cares and what we can all do to help.

Frederick Noronha is an independent journalist based in Saligão in the Bardez taluka of Goa. He is active in cyberspace and involved with e-ventures involving Goa, developmental concerns and free software. He writes mostly on free software / open source software issues, technology, and computing issues in India.

[00:00] [Abhas]

Hi Fred, so we doing a recording for the Free Talk Show – a talk show that talks to people who care about software freedom.

And to start with I wanted to ask you – how did you get involved with free software and what does software freedom mean to you?

[00:31] [Fred]

You know, Abhas, when… this is like late, mid-90s — see I have been a journalist all my life and I understand how crucial information is and how crucial the flow of information is. And how dastardly blocks on information can be. So this idea of free software was something that caught my mind in the early to mid-nineties.

I am not a techie; even today, I can not install a single [GNU/] Linux distro. But the moment I saw it, I said “wow, what a great idea of making software sharable!”. I think knowledge should be sharable; software should be sharable; seeds should be sharable; books should be sharable – even as a journalist, our work should be sharable. We all need to live – so, maybe, I have to sell it the first time. But then I should negotiate with the publishers (or whoever) to put out there, and it is possible to do it. I have been sharing all my work and it has helped me so much, by sharing. Although, it may seem ironical.

I say that what I have given into sharing is 1/100th of what I have received! So for me sharing is terribly important. I understood the implications of sharing software immediately but I was not in a position to implement it even by way of setting up my own computer at home — which my friends did for me and I am happy to say that since 1999 or 2000 I have been GNU/Linux – one brand or the other – without loosing a single byte of data. [I am] very happy about using it; hopefully contributing back to the community, doing what I enjoy, writing about nice people, writing about positive stories… how young Indians (mostly young) and mostly guys, unfortunately not enough women, are contributing to this world of software.

[02:25] [Abhas]

You started by saying that you like that information is free and that is one of the things that brought you close to the free software movement. But not everyone thinks about it. People don’t [always] put in so much thought. So how do you think people can discover this value of free sharing of information (software is information in that sense) — how do people realise or arrive at this sort of clarity on their own — if they are not used to thinking about it or caring about it so much?

[02:54] [Fred]

You know, Abhas, I think we are brain-washed by the corporate and mainstream models of copyright, of wanting to protect, of wanting to cash in on our “intellectual products” that we “own”. That’s a big myth. All our knowledge is based on the backs of others. Nothing is original in that sense. If I can say something, I can speak in a language its because someone else has taught me to do it. And I have learnt from someone else. And the facts have collated from all over the place. And so I “grabbing it” and this whole myth of the “sole inventor”, the “sole genius” – that is not really something I believe in.

And the other argument, is that when you share its not that you are giving away something – your blood or your wealth or something which you are going to be deprived of. As the saying goes – two boys have a toy, they exchange their toys – each boy still has one toy each.

Two boys have an idea, they exchange their ideas – each boy goes home with two ideas. So the wealth is growing, the knowledge is growing, the pool is growing. By sharing – you are not loosing anything – especially these “intellectual products”.

See when it comes to hardware, when it comes to scarce resources – then maybe a different paradigm applies. When it comes to knowledge, software – all these kind of things – there is no scarcity really. And I think free software is quite a miracle — if I can use religious terms, I’m not religious, but — its quite a miracle that people like Stallman and people who followed him have managed to work it out and built something that is better than the “real thing”.

Incidentally, I have a small joke. In the Bible, the first free software miracle is there. When Christ goes and converts two bread and five fish (or whatever it is, I don’t know the exact number) into enough food to feel the multitude – there is a free software explanation for that – a simple, logical, rational explanation. There were these guys who were hoarding their food. And then they saw some of them taking it out of their pocket. So when someone starts sharing, then everyone starts sharing. And this is not an intellectual, ideological, intangible product – it is something very tangible. So everyone starts sharing and they end up with basket loads of extra food! In those days its explained as a miracle. But there is a free software rational explanation to what could have happened.

That apart, can we repeat these ways of doing things in a country like ours’ which needs it so badly and many parts of the world still need – there is scarcity all around, people don’t have enough – so can we be more liberal in sharing and everyone gains.

[05:51] [Abhas]

So there is this ideological perspective to free software and there is a technological perspective. In my perspective, ideology drives what technology you use. But some people also come at it the other way. They start with technology and then they discover the ideology. So you started from the ideological perspective — am I right?

[06:12] [Fred]

To be very honest, in the seventies, there was a lot of student ferment. So we are a part of that. In our younger days, even now, we look at the politics of every situation. I would be naturally be more convinced by something political, by something ideological – though the fact is – I am not a techie. Most Indian techies are not very political and they don’t like discuss politics. Except now its seems to be changing.

There are many people in the Aadhaar campaign protesting about this 12-digit identification number and the privacy issues around it. Many of them are free software or open source guys. So they are getting political. But – in India – the thing is not to see the politics of technology.

Whereas, the full free software movement – Stallman and the famous printer getting stuck and all – it tell you that people there are really thinking about what is the politics of technology. And I don’t think we can ignore the politics of it at all because it is getting so more powerful – even the people we vote for and how elections are manipulated by way of facebook and cambridge analytica — it shows you that technology is not neutral.

You may think it is neutral but it can not be – it has a very political role – so you’d better understand that role before it subsumes and overtakes you.

[07:26] [Abhas]

There is this classic quote attributed to Stallman saying that “Value your freedom or you will loose it teaches history. Don’t bother us with politics say those who don’t want to learn”.

Okay – so lets reflect back to the early stages of the free software movement in India. You were actively trying to connect people and share information; support people to keep doing what they were doing. Give us an idea of what it was like at that time? What was your perspective of what drove people to do the things they were doing? 1999 to 2003/4 – that time.

[08:07] [Fred]

I got involved around 98/99 – it took me 1 or 2 years to actually start getting to use [GNU/] Linux and all the me...

Episode 6: Frederick Noronha