Apartment 603

Summary

The Friend Zone – "Apartment 603" (Oct 22, 2025)

Hosts: Dustin Ross, Hey Fran Hey (Francesca), and Asante
Theme: Exploring the Ellen Greenberg Case: “Death in Apartment 603” (Crime Zone Series)

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Episode Overview

This week, The Friend Zone continues its annual "Crime Zone" October series with Fran leading a deeply detailed exploration of the suspicious death of Ellen Greenberg, subject of the Hulu docuseries Death in Apartment 603. The hosts dissect the facts, institutional failures, alleged corruption, and the heartbreaking aftermath for Ellen’s family, while intertwining personal insights and relatable humor. Alongside this heavy case, the crew checks in with listener comments, culture news, wellness, music, and TV recommendations.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. [00:44–12:04] Opening: Buzzy Banter & Announcements

• The trio checks in about their weekends, the impact of seasonal gloom, and the importance of socializing for mental health (even “clubbing” at an older age).
• Black business highlight: Son of James LA – innovative fitted hats and jeans by designer Jameson.

“The findings of the post said that it’s healthy … to be outside and socializing and at the club up until the age of 69.”
—Francesca, [08:20]

2. [12:04–31:35] Listener Feedback & Community Recap

• Reactions to last week’s heavy conversation, nostalgia around D’Angelo’s passing, and tips on battling Portland’s squirrels and sleep problems.
• Notable listener stories include ancestry surprises, field hockey, and sleep studies.
• Commentary on selling plasma, egg donation, family ties, and the strange realities of adulting.

“Something to consider. We getting up there. These are such adult conversations…”
—Francesca, [23:42]

3. [31:35–126:16] Crime Zone Deep Dive: The Ellen Greenberg Case (Main Segment)

Background & Context

• Ellen Greenberg: A young teacher from a tight-knit Jewish family; lively, intelligent, living in Philadelphia with fiancé Sam.
• Engaged after a three-year relationship, but friends/family note a change in her demeanor once the wedding planning begins.

The Day of the Incident

• Jan 26, 2011: Heavy snowstorm; Ellen leaves school stressed (report cards due, heavy workload).
• Sam, her fiancé, leaves the apartment to use the building gym—returns less than an hour later to find the apartment door latched from the inside. Unable to reach Ellen, he gets frustrated, seeks help from the concierge, and eventually breaks down the door.
• Ellen is found on the kitchen floor in a pool of blood, knife in her chest. Sam calls 911.

Investigative Failures & Suspicions

• Police immediately accept Sam’s account (points to a suicide), do not preserve the scene, and cancel forensic workup.
• Concerns:
  • 20 stab wounds (many in the back, one severs her spinal cord).
  • Crime scene cleaned before thorough investigation; key evidence (laptop/phone) taken by Sam’s attorney uncle.
  • Medical examiner briefly rules it homicide, then reverses decision after a suspicious off-record meeting with police.
• Institutional Corruption:
  • Political connections and “too busy” homicide division cited for mishandling.
  • Media attention via The Philadelphia Inquirer and online sleuths.
  • Family’s civil lawsuit and years-long fight for justice.
  • Continued official insistence (even after public scrutiny) that it was suicide, despite mounting contrary evidence.

Cultural Commentary

• The hosts unpack themes of gaslighting, the power of family connections, disparities in medical/legal processes, and the chilling reality that the system can so completely fail.
• Parallels drawn to ongoing social justice struggles and distrust of public institutions.

“At no point did it cross anybody’s mind, hey, he could have killed her? That never crossed nobody’s mind?”
—Dustin Ross, [79:32]

“[Medical examiner] settles out and agreed that it wasn’t the right determination. But even with him settling out … we still have gotten nowhere.”
—Francesca, [119:14]

“You’re powerless at that point, and somebody’s life is on the line.”
—Dustin Ross, [119:58]

4. [126:16–134:22] Wellness Highlight: Black Girls Can, Inc.

• Fran spotlights Kenesha Dennis and Black Girls Can, Inc., celebrating 10 years of STEM/wellness empowerment for Black girls in NYC and DC.
• Upcoming "Pathway to Power" school tour to address the youth mental health crisis.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Greenberg Case:

  “The killer is talking to us.”
  —Dustin Ross, [79:47]

  “How does a person that was a part of the situation just get to tell the police what it is? … The police just took his word for it.”
  —Francesca, [75:28]

  “Justice delayed is justice denied.”
  —Judge (reading from the hearing), [108:43]

• Listener Segment:

  “I love these very niche adult conversations, because so many of you wrote in like, ‘Yo, I have no one to talk about this with…’”
  —Francesca, [23:42]

• Music & TV Banter:

  • Three recs: D’Angelo’s “One Mo’gin”, Olivia Dean’s “Let Alone the One You Love”, new Mobb Deep ft. Nas and H.E.R.
  • Dustin and Asante highlight T-Pain’s “People” remix, Yseult’s industry battle with K-pop copycats, and the routine of “club husbands”.

“If this wasn’t such a serious episode, as far as the case, I would name this ‘vigorous ass shaking’.”
—Francesca, [175:06]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

00:44 – Episode intro, mental health and socializing
10:29 – Black Business of the Week
12:04 – Listener Feedback, Sleep Studies, Field Hockey, Ancestry Discoveries
31:35 – Crime Zone: The Ellen Greenberg Case
79:06 – Medical examiner process explained
88:45 – Discovery of the 20 stab wounds
102:12 – Family’s ongoing fight, legal setbacks, media impact
126:16 – Wellness: Black Girls Can, Inc.
142:33 – Music Segment: D’Angelo, Olivia Dean, Mobb Deep, T-Pain
177:26 – TV Corner: Baddies Africa, Real Housewives of Potomac, Love Is Blind, Reasonable Doubt
183:40 – Closing & next week’s preview

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Episode Tone

• The tone is profoundly engaged, empathetic, occasionally irreverent, and always community-oriented—with each host bringing warmth and sharp critique even as they process the weighty subject matter of the Greenberg case. Humor and pop culture check-ins provide much-needed relief amidst the heaviness of institutional injustice.

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Useful Takeaways

• Systemic Injustice: Even overwhelming physical evidence can be steamrolled by connections and bureaucracy.
• Mental Health Nuance: Use of mental health crises as an easy explanation for unexplained deaths is still prevalent—and dangerous.
• Community Power: Voices in the media, public, and online can keep cases like Ellen’s alive, even if justice is delayed.
• Listener Connection: The show’s willingness to detour into relatable, adult-life topics (like mattress shopping, field hockey, or internet ancestry shocks) fosters a loyal following.

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Further Exploration

• Watch Death in Apartment 603: What Happened to Ellen Greenberg (Hulu)
• Support Black Girls Can, Inc.'s Pathway to Power Tour
• Stream music from featured artists: D’Angelo, Olivia Dean, Mobb Deep, T-Pain, Yseult

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“Do what you can, how you can. That’s all. That’s the only thing we can say. And like I said, God bless that girl.”
—Dustin Ross, [125:53]

Transcript

[Francesca]

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[Dustin Ross]

Welcome to the Friends.

[Francesca]

Every time I'm in the zone.

[Dustin Ross]

My name is Dustin.

[Francesca]

I'm Francesca, also known as hey friend. Hey.

[Asante]

My name is Asante. This is the friend zone.

[Dustin Ross]

Let's start the show.

[Francesca]

You don't sit your goddam ass down.

[Asante]

With them spaces in between your teeth.

[Dustin Ross]

And this week is one person who had said they ass down with definitely with them spaces in between their teeth. And unfortunately they didn't stood up, I'll bet shortly. And I'm talking about none other than Six Nine the rapper, quote, unquote. Y' all know who I'm talking about. So this literal troll. He's a literal troll. Look like a troll. He is a troll. Literally.

[Asante]

Yeah.

[Dustin Ross]

According to the neighborhood talk. Shout out to the neighborhood talk. According to the neighborhood talk, 6:9 sends a message to people making fun of him for wearing wigs. Quote, I do this because I want to do it. You do it because you have to do it. You bitches is bald, okay? That's what he said.

[Francesca]

He's wearing wigs.

[Dustin Ross]

Wigs, you know, he's always worn like them colorful wigs with the long different colored hair and shit.

[Francesca]

Like I saw him, I saw him maybe last week or something. Like a clip of his and he had like a, like a pixie. So are you saying that pixie is a wig?

[Dustin Ross]

He wears wigs and as you can see in the video, shout out to our Patreon.

[Asante]

Is that a pony?

[Francesca]

A video, as you can see.

[Asante]

Is that a lime pony?

[Dustin Ross]

Yep, with blue roots. And then as you can see, he's ripping off his wig and his wig cap underneath. So he wears a wig cap. He's whipping it off to show that he has length in his hair. Look how big his forehead is, how his hairline is receding. I was just about to look how.

[Francesca]

His, his hairline has been completely pulled out. Why did she pull it off like that.

[Dustin Ross]

Because they want to show that he's doing a length check in real time so he can show that he wears wigs because of that. Now he needs them.

[Francesca]

Them sacred restorative drops.

[Dustin Ross]

Rogaine.

[Francesca]

You know what? I just ordered some. Not for my edges, but for my eyebrows. Because my eyebrows, as I'm aging got a little sparse. And I was reading that they might help. And I asked my eyebrow girl. She was like, girl, I don't know.

[Dustin Ross]

My eyebrows be fucked up. I've never in my life had my eyebrows arched. Never.

[Asante]

I mean, I've had them accidentally arched because, you know, some of them barbershops, the Dominicans, they just get real happy. And I'm like, hold on, not the bra.

[Francesca]

They're arched a little too sharp. I don't.

[Dustin Ross]

So I gotta be careful with shit. First time it happened, I want my name to introduce me, not my eyebrows. You know what I'm saying? Or I want to tell you I'm gay. I don't want my eyebrows too. So I've just never. I don't want to be looking surprised. I don't want them to look drawn on.

[Francesca]

I don't either, though. When I think when I was younger, that really sharp point Nike check eyebrow, in a way, I was so into that because, you know, it just made sense. But now I don't. I don't. It doesn't fly. Flatter me. Like, I think it's too much. So I like a more natural, you know, enhance it.

[Dustin Ross]

But I think six, nine is too much. And I think his comments that he made were too much. He. He said Sukiano was a bald. Sukiana said, well, he can say that. She was like, but my hair is longer than his dick. So there's that. That's what Sukiana said. That's right.

[Francesca]

That was a good comeback.

[Dustin Ross]

And my thing is, if we talk about people wearing wigs and they bald bitches and shit, she's a boy. What kind of bitch is you? You know what I'm saying? Because you want to. If you sit in that chair, you got that cap put on and glued on, you getting your lace melted. If you're picking hues of hair to choose, if you are choosing length and density, right. If you choose in that, use a bitch too. If they bought bitches, you a dumb bitch. And you bought in the front, you got. Your hair is long. Yeah, in the back, but not in the front. Okay? So just because you got short sleeve hair, I don't understand why you think you are now Entitled to it. I have something to say about these other women's hair. I'm sick of him always over here. You know what I'm saying? It's always something over here with him. He needs to go back in there, and we know where that is.

[Francesca]

I can't believe he said thing. That's amazing to me.

[Dustin Ross]

So that's it, you know? You just want to say him, you know what I'm saying? And yeah, that's it. Also, you look like Roseanne. Well, with that being said, welcome to the Friends on your weekly looking all things mental health, mental hygiene, and mental wellness. Because who in the hell wants to hear what six nine has to say? I know I don't. Hey, friend. Hey, Sante. How you doing?

[Francesca]

Hi, y'. All. How y' all doing? How your weekends? Which I get up to.

[Dustin Ross]

Alphabetical order.

[Francesca]

I love the.

[Asante]

I had a good weekend. It happened real.

[Dustin Ross]

Oh, yeah. So was it true about the bed?

[Asante]

I don't want to play.

[Dustin Ross]

You said it happened.

[Asante]

I don't.

[Dustin Ross]

I thought you did.

[Francesca]

Not that. Not that. I had a good weekend. It's. It's gloomy. I'm trying to keep the boat going.

[Dustin Ross]

I'm trying to understand.

[Asante]

I'm trying to keep going.

[Francesca]

It's gloomy outside, which is so good.

[Dustin Ross]

That's what's up. So, friend, it was gloomy outside in Portland.

[Francesca]

Yeah, we're back to that. You know how the. The PNW sometimes has that little doom and gloom section of the year? We're officially in it. So I was talking to Sante about the fact that I've been taking my vitamin D just to kind of battle. I don't think I get, like, seasonal depression or anything, but, I mean, as a human being waking up to gloom.

[Asante]

Is that craving that?

[Francesca]

Yeah, it's just. It's always going to have an effect in different ways. But, yeah, just trying to get through this season however we can. Lord. What about you, Dustin? What you get into?

[Dustin Ross]

It was a good weekend for me, too. Shout out to my boy, Rich Starr. It was his birthday. He had a really incredible birthday party here in New York. Absolutely. Word up to Rich Star. Word up to my boy was Steele. It was his birthday as well. Also, shout out to the Vibes crew. I mentioned the party here before on the Friend Zone, but shout out to Vibes. V, Y, B, E, Z, I believe. But you can look up their Instagram account. But they throw a monthly party here in New York City. I'm not gonna say location, because if you know, you know, IYK yk, But it was great. And actually going to expand to some Brooklyn opportunities too. So shout out to them. This is a weekend of connectivity for me and work. Yeah, cute. You know, I'm always working. I gotta work. So.

[Francesca]

Yeah, I hear you. As we were laughing because I had been scrolling IG and. And shout out to Angela. Angela, her podcast was having a conversation about like when is it too old? When are you too old to be clubbing?

[Asante]

Oh my God.

[Francesca]

And as I'm passing the post, you know how now IG has a new feature where you can see the likes like on the post. Which. Why. Why do you need to see that if you see the like. I just don't understand the features just be random as fuck.

[Dustin Ross]

Right? Get out the way.

[Francesca]

But I just see this little at look at Dustin floating heart. Well, because the findings of the post said that it's healthy. It's beneficial for your mental health to be at outside and socializing and at the club up until the age of 69.

[Asante]

Wow.

[Dustin Ross]

I'm not going to say that.

[Asante]

Okay.

[Dustin Ross]

But I'm just going to say which.

[Francesca]

I think is crazy.

[Dustin Ross]

Yeah.

[Francesca]

Being at the club at 17. Nuts.

[Dustin Ross]

I felt seen. Yeah. I was like. See, I knew I was right. That's how I felt when I saw that. Encouraged.

[Francesca]

But I get it too because I mean New York is also just a fun city. You know, the nightlife don't. It don't mean you have to be at the club. Like there's a lot of fun shit to. Dude, your folks always have fun. Yeah, maybe not that late. I'll be sleeping maybe four.

[Dustin Ross]

Literally great times. Good times.

[Francesca]

Now let's jump into some segments real quickly though. Do you guys have any announcements, anything you'd like the folks to know before we jump in? Jump in.

[Asante]

It's funny that you say that, friend, because next week, I mean technically this week, we gonna do next week. Next week we're going live next Wednesday on the 29th. That is the last Wednesday of the month. The first falls on that weekend. I just didn't feel like we needed to do it this week. So next week we are doing our live. If you don't know what our live is, we have a whole patreon. Patreon.com. the Friendzone podcast. That's where you can come see premium content from us, where we are recapping TV shows, we are recapping films, we are recapping movies and books, we are recapping everything. And we also go live. We are for the last Wednesday of each month, we go Live Wednesday this month, it'll be October 28th at 8:00pm Eastern Standard Time. You can find us at our Wednesday wind down Lachette. You know what's up. If you don't know what's up, come find out. We will. See you then.

[Francesca]

Hey, let's jump into the black business of the week. Dustin Ross, you said you had something to share with the class today.

[Dustin Ross]

Absolutely. So shout out to my boy Jameson. He is a talented creator and designer. Even actually out of la. If you've seen there's been these really popular stoned fitted hats that like a lot of people have been wearing. Meg thee stallion has worn them in her Bigger than Texas video. Yeah, Joe Budden always has them on. So several people. He is the creator of those. And it's not just those hats. He has like these jeans called the Eden jeans, which are really, really cool. For those who are on Patreon, you can see like just several dope, like super trendy designs. Yeah. LA shit. So shout out to my boy Jameson. We want to give them a look, if you're into that. And again, these hats have been like insanely popular. They've been everywhere. Everybody's wearing them. So if you've been looking for them, right, if you've been looking for these hats, this is where to find, where you can find them. Some people probably have made other variants, but these are the original. This is where they come from. These are the ones to have. So you can follow the line on Instagram, son of James la just like it sounds at Instagram, or you can go to the website sonofjames.co CEO so www.s o n o f j a m e s.co and support. Get you some fly shit and you welcome. Don't say I gatekeep because I have not kept the gate. There you have it.

[Francesca]

Cool to know where it comes from too. Let's jump into the recap segment. So last week's episode titled the Heavy show, it was to shoot the shit, right? No hot button, no segments, just whatever wanted to come up, which was a lot. Those of you listening had a lot to say. Who stood out to you? Asante?

[Asante]

A lot of people had a lot of things to say, child. One of the comments that I'll read is this one's from Champi. This comment says this episode was needed. I thank y' all personally. Hand in my chest. Like Giveon's cover of Untitled, like Ifeon's cover of Untitled and wouldn't be mad of him being part of that tribute. A lot of people were talking about. Because we talked about the tribute for the unfortunate news of d' Angelo last of his passing last week. So people have been throwing in who they feel should be there for the tributes. And some people were saying a little bit too much of their business. But I also want to shout out Nick, because you guys brought up that Woodstock documentary last week. Nick said, I remember watching the Woodstock footage as a kid on MTV News. And when MTV held who Wants to Be a vj? And Jesse Camp won. I remember a whole thing.

[Francesca]

Oh, the hippie kid, right?

[Asante]

I remember there being several like, who Wants to Be a VJ? Moments. And one of the last times that I remember doing it right, because I did it a couple times is when I met a bunch of, like, some of the people that I know today. Like, I. I didn't remember, like, how we met. I was like, oh, yeah, we were Internet people. We crossed paths at some point. Some of them niggas we met, like, doing the VJ competition online when they started making it a thing, a social media thing, when they thought MTV was gonn, you know, be around, but just nostalgic. I thought that was cute. Thanks for that, Nick. What about you, friend? What did you find out in the streets?

[Francesca]

So actually on SoundCloud, there was a funny comment. How do you say this? The faux at? I don't know the faux at, said Fran. I say this with love, but them squirrels. Squirrels are relentless. One year, a squirrel bit through the mesh screen on my back door and stole bread from my kitchen. Damn, yo, that's. That's a lot. I wouldn't even know how to react to that. Try a bird feeder to deter the birds and use that damn pepper on them squirrels. A lot of y' all were actually giving me advice saying that y' all do not fuck with the squirrels because they are not. They don't think about the collective. Apparently, from what y' all telling me, they're just gonna be for self. Actually, while I'm sitting here, I see two squirrels beating each other's asses over a persimmon that is on the ground. Even there's a whole tree where they could get another one. So I get it. They're very different. I'm learning that as I battle them.

[Asante]

Scare me like fitter rats with bigger, like, fluffy tails.

[Francesca]

I don't like that They're. They're interesting. But I appreciate all the advice that y' all been giving me. I actually had some more. Hold on, because y' all had some funny comments. Kiana, in the gated community said, thank you for my bird feeders. I typically use seeds already covered in hot pepper. That's interesting. I didn't know that they even sold them like that. She said, birds love it, squirrels hate it and don't even come around anymore. If I use other seeds or bird treats, I cover it in Coles flaming squirrel hot pepper oil sauce. So that's a thing. Damn.

[Asante]

Wow.

[Francesca]

Not there being an industry to battle.

[Asante]

Squirrels just to fuck the squirrels up.

[Francesca]

She said it's perfect for birds but keeps the squirrels away.

[Asante]

So cool.

[Dustin Ross]

This is like getting bars on the window of your bird feeder, you know, I liked it.

[Francesca]

Ain't that some shit, though? Lastly, Chrissy Lewis, also in the gated community, said, my daughter plays field hockey and it's a mostly white space, but when she sees other black girls, they always give each other a nod. This was in regards in reference to the convo I was having about the black people in Portland, not necessarily giving head nods. I picked that comment too because. Because, Chrissy, I love that your daughter plays field hockey. I feel like you don't hear that enough. I played field hockey all four years at Riverdale. I was captain, too, of varsity.

[Dustin Ross]

That's right.

[Francesca]

My absolute favorite sport. It was so fun. And it's actually. Before I started Riverdale, one of the ways that I was like, oh, you know, it would be cool to go into school already knowing people and maybe having some friends already. So I actually tried out for the field hockey team preseason before school even started. And that was perfect because you. I think if I remember correctly, you trained for maybe a month and a half before school started.

[Dustin Ross]

The perfect little buffet.

[Francesca]

It was perfect because then I came into school with a whole group of girls that I had already spent a month and some change with. And you get really close when you're in sports, right? Because it's so, you know, it's challenging. A lot of teamwork. And I went into school and it was a really good way to have people, you know, where you're kind of like cushioned. You know, you walk in, you don't have that weird awkward moment of the cafeteria in the new school where you walk in, you don't know where to sit. So that's a good tip, too. If you have kids or if you're starting school, especially for high school or college. Just a way to kind of have a little buffer there. But I love that you mentioned field hockey because there was only, what, maybe two of us were not white on that team. And guess what? The two black Girls were the captains.

[Asante]

Worked it out.

[Francesca]

Just have to say that. Shout out to you girl. We were the captains and I always thought that was flat. We also had an episode the week prior that Assante facilitated, and it was called the Multiple Mysteries of Marina Ramos, part of our October Crime Zone series. Those of you listening were freaked out and had a lot to say as well. Who stood out to you on that episode?

[Asante]

Asante Shout out to everybody still in the Spotify streets. First comment 100,000k lovedesante storytelling today. Looking forward to next week. Next Comment this I don't know how to say the name, but I love this comment. I feel bad reading it, but you guys leave these comments. I just never know what I'm supposed to read because you leave them. The name is. Well, maybe I shouldn't say the name, but the comment says I did my ancestry.com about 10 years ago trying to maybe find information about my mom's dad who was Mexican and died when she was about 8 or 9. It was kind of a bust, so I completely forgot about it until about a year ago and just randomly checked my Facebook DMS and saw all these messages from someone saying we were cousins and that I look exactly like his uncle. Long chaotic story short, I did the test for her, only to find out she'd been lying to me all this time about who my father is. I'm 38. I just don't know why you guys share all of these things, but I mean, that's real. Like, just because it's like from what was happening last week, the fact that you have that type of relationship to that type of story, it makes me feel bad for having shared that type of story. That's the only reason I'm like, damn. But outside of that, I hope you get you some peace and some resolve. Because finding out, at least you find out when you can do something about it versus when you're powerless. I feel like it would suck to find out something as a kid. And then they always do these movies where people go on these journeys at a very young age. Not to say it's good that the lot wrote out for so long, but I'm glad you can, you know, reconcile that now, however you can. And I'm praying for you. Last comment I want to share.

[Francesca]

I just want to add I saw that they're trying to because apparently that's common enough. They're trying to add paternity testing when you give birth now so that you're.

[Asante]

Already in the system, right?

[Francesca]

You leave the hospital knowing what it is. They're trying to pass that, and I think that that's interesting because that means a lot of y' all have been out here lying.

[Dustin Ross]

Well, so much so.

[Francesca]

That. Damn, that's good.

[Asante]

That is. That is.

[Francesca]

Yeah.

[Asante]

I don't want to ever be in a position like that. Last comment I want to share is from Lamont Sinclair. Lamont says, I'm a certified hypnotherapist, and I wanted to speak on the part of if hypnosis could work to get the truth out of someone or recall a situation.

[Francesca]

Come on, affirm me.

[Asante]

King and no.

[Francesca]

Oh, all right.

[Asante]

We can facilitate a regression, and the subject will have vivid details of that encounter, but it's their own account of the situation, not necessarily factual. Anything said under hypnosis is considered as inadmissible evidence in the eyes of the court system. So even if the subject does remember the event, it won't. It won't hold up in court.

[Francesca]

Thank you for that, Lamont.

[Asante]

It's always good to have some professionals across the court.

[Francesca]

That's so interesting.

[Asante]

Right?

[Francesca]

So it won't hold up in court. Wow. Okay. But I knew that it's. I wondered if it was done, though. Like, I'm like, I know that that's a. That's a specialty that has to be considered, right? Yeah, I think, because I've heard people be able to kind of go far back. And you know what, A lot of our listeners were actually leaving comments saying that they are the type that remember things from when they were one, from when they were two. They can tell you very vivid memories of things that happened and things that were said. And I'm like, wow, that's so impressive from when you were one.

[Asante]

Like, insane impressive.

[Francesca]

I know people that are like that.

[Asante]

What about you, friend?

[Francesca]

Like that.

[Asante]

What did you find out in the streets?

[Francesca]

So I was on SoundCloud as well, and VMarz said, Yo, friend, I'm going through the same issues with my lower back and my mattress. It's gotten to the point where I've switched beds with my 10 year old. She's got this part made me laugh. She's got a random memory foam mattress off Amazon and mine has springs. But I noticed when I lay with her to read bedtime stories, I'd be so comfortable and fall asleep mid story. My own bed was too firm, so I bought a memory foam mattress topper and it was okay for a bit, but now I'm waking up almost every day with aches and pains and. And often lay on a heating pad While I sleep. So I've just slept in her little twin bed and she is sleeping in my queen size bed for the past couple of weeks, to her delight.

[Asante]

I think that's so funny.

[Francesca]

It's been some of the best sleep I've had in years. But then I noticed that when I lay out my yoga mat in my living room to stretch, just laying there on the floor is so comfortable for me and I get sleepy. So I know I need a new mattress. What type? I have absolutely no idea. Though a lot of you are writing. I love these, like, very niche adult conversations because so many of you wrote in like, yo, I have no one to talk about this with. Yes. Like, I noticed that as I'm aging, my body is needing a firmer mattress or just a different kind of bed. And people said that that's something they just never really considered. And through our conversation, they're gonna look into it because people are like, I wake up, they're waking up stiff and achy and thinking like, yeah, what if it is my bed that's contributing to me feeling like shit when I'm like getting up out of the bed and my whole lower back is on fire. So something to consider. We getting up there. These are such adult conversations for that.

[Asante]

I wish we could host. Like, like, I wish like somebody would partner with us and we could do like a sleep study or something. Or just, just have people just come lay in beds, be like, try that bed. I'll try that bed out.

[Francesca]

Yeah.

[Asante]

You know, it's so funny. They've always randomly done those sleep studies for years, and I just thought it was for people that snore, but apparently it was like all types of sleep issues anyway, so.

[Francesca]

Yeah. And remember they would like pay people like $50 or something crazy to come to it.

[Asante]

Have you ever done one?

[Francesca]

No.

[Asante]

Have you ever done a sleep study, Dustin?

[Dustin Ross]

I ain't did no sleep study.

[Asante]

I did one one time because, look, I needed that money.

[Dustin Ross]

Okay.

[Francesca]

I was gonna say, I remember I heard they paid like, that's money for the week. What you said that used to be.

[Asante]

A hustle, just going to those little research groups.

[Francesca]

Yeah.

[Dustin Ross]

I had a friend who used to.

[Francesca]

Taking surveys, all that.

[Dustin Ross]

I had a friend who used to take medical stuff. Like he used to. He lives in LA and he used to do like, he'd be in the hospital for like two weeks, like trying different. Like, yeah, like, like he would go there, but it would be like eight thousand dollar bags. You know what I'm saying?

[Francesca]

Yeah.

[Dustin Ross]

He ain't give A he. Look, he was. Or he was a rebel, but he. He definitely used to do that, though. Yo.

[Francesca]

Oh, like, I almost said his name.

[Dustin Ross]

But if you listening, you know who I'm talking about. So what's up.

[Francesca]

If you know? You know, that's crazy, though. I mean, huge bag, but that's like, with. When people would donate their eggs for us, like, they would have the egg or plasma. I mean, there's always been a lot.

[Dustin Ross]

Of give blood shit. People always do that. Go, give blood, come out leaning. Listen, sometimes you gotta get out. But this is why sleep is very important and it's something that people have. I'm glad we shining the light on it too. But a lot of people have been vocal about it. One of the biggest people who I know is an advocate for, like, healthy sleep and sleep studies and all that is ludicrous because, you know, he actually had made a song about it back in the day, like, go to sleep ho, go to sleep. If you tired, be quiet and go to sleep hoe. So that sometimes through music is something I'm appreciative of as well.

[Francesca]

I can't. You know what I actually saw? Where did I see it? I feel like it was a documentary. I can't remember where a woman was contacted. It was a couple women speaking of being contacted through those ancestry databases because they had donated eggs when they were teenagers on some, like, Hustle. And now they have kids around the world being like, you know, hey.

[Dustin Ross]

What do you say?

[Francesca]

And they said that it's. Once they have. Right. They have the discussion of what it was and what happened, they maintain a connection, you know, and it's. It's like the lady was like, it's a little weird. But she also feels happy that she was able to contribute to, like, these people being out there in the world that the moms needed the assistant with, you know, this is.

[Asante]

It definitely is weird, but, like, cool. You know, that is one of those things where it's like, eh. But I just don't want to.

[Francesca]

That always stopped me because when my friends would talk about it, like, oh, you get this much. You get this much. I'm like, yeah, but I don't want just random kids of mine showing up. Showing up.

[Asante]

Yeah.

[Francesca]

Being like, mom. And you're like, what I was.

[Dustin Ross]

And they got real issues from that. You know what I'm saying?

[Francesca]

Yeah. I just. I mean, you know, you got to do what you got to do. I get it. And at least she seemed to be proud of it, which was a really interesting take.

[Dustin Ross]

She had a different shame.

[Francesca]

Yeah. She was like, man, I helped bring people like human beings out here and I thought that was cool. And then the fact that they have a relationship, you know, there's no, it don't seem like it's any bad blood about it, but that's good. But it's stories out in the way.

[Dustin Ross]

It's good.

[Francesca]

That's it for this week's intro. Let's jump into this week's episode.

[Dustin Ross]

Welcome to the Friends.

[Asante]

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[Francesca]

So as we continue the crime zone conversations for the month of October, this week is my turn to bring a case to the docket. Now it doesn't.

[Asante]

I'm sick already, right?

[Francesca]

Because y' all know how I do. This case is a case that I actually first heard about during quarantine. I'm not saying that it happened during quarantine, but I'm saying it circulated heavily on social media, you know, Twitter and all the different sites that we were on. I was like what? This is nuts. And especially as as you will see as I read through it, it's just a mind blowing case that is shocking but not shocking, but shocking. And all of the things it involves, government involves, politics. I mean y' all already know. So I recently was on Hulu and saw that there was a three part series about it. And I thought, oh, my God, maybe we can get some more information what happened, because, you know, I knew very broad strokes about it. So this is the Ellen Greenberg case. Are y' all familiar? Have you ever heard about this case?

[Asante]

No, I have not heard of this. Ellen.

[Dustin Ross]

Ellen DeGeneres, but no, not that one.

[Francesca]

Not that one either. So this documentary is called death in apartment 603. What happened to Ellen Green?

[Dustin Ross]

I have heard about this. I've heard about death in apartment 603. Yes. Continue.

[Francesca]

So this was a three part investigative docu series on Hulu, like I said. But let's get into the actual story of what happened because like I said, it is mind blowing. So Ellen Ray Greenberg, she was born on June 23rd of 1983 to Josh and Sandy Greenberg. Now, when you look online, they say she was from New York. But then in the Hulu doc and other, you know, I watched some YouTube clips and news articles, they say she was from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. So little blurry on that. Little blurry on that. But let's just stick with the Harrisburg because that's the city that was being mentioned in the document when she, she comes from, like a good close knit Jewish family. And when it came time for college, she decided to attend Penn State University where she received a bachelor's degree in communications. And then she followed that up with getting her teaching credentials from Temple University. So she kept it very Pennsylvania based. Right.

[Dustin Ross]

She from the capital city, Harrisburg.

[Francesca]

Okay. And when she, when you, you know, when they play like videos of when they were young, she just seemed very lively, very bubbly. Right. This was the little girl that had a lot of personality. Beautiful little girl, big smile. They said that she, you know, studying communications. This was something that she was passionate about. And in the videos you'd see she'd be doing like, interviews, radio show gigs, just very much the life of the party.

[Dustin Ross]

Very soon wouldn't shut up.

[Francesca]

I mean, she's a Gemini. That's kind of their, their strength.

[Dustin Ross]

Would you shut up? They're talking. Makes me nervous.

[Francesca]

She's just a really bubbly person and I had a lot of friends. And so her mom was not surprised when after college and after getting her teaching credentials, she decided that she was actually gonna stay in Philly. Right. Cause Philly was like the hot spot. That's where a lot of the students decided to get apartments when school was over. There was a bigger social scene. It was, you know, much bigger than Harrisburg where her family was. And she could just, you know, you're young you're in your early 20s. Like, I'm trying to be outside dating, hanging out. A lot of her friends also had decided to move to Philly as well. I forget because when I think of Philly, it is a very specific type of crowd.

[Dustin Ross]

Yeah.

[Francesca]

I forget that white people like Philly like, that. I'm like, y' all like, oh, okay.

[Asante]

It's funny because I can think of both sides of Philly.

[Francesca]

Like, you see both sides. See? I don't know white Philly.

[Asante]

I don't know white Philly. But, like, as of the past couple years, I have met, like, a lot of white people, like Eagles fans and shit.

[Francesca]

And I'm like, oh, okay, very true. Right?

[Dustin Ross]

Es. Remember the. The mayor.

[Francesca]

Oh, no.

[Dustin Ross]

When she was misspelling Eagles.

[Francesca]

Esgf.

[Asante]

Go Eagles.

[Francesca]

But this Ellen was also.

[Dustin Ross]

That wasn't Ellen.

[Francesca]

That was not Ellen. A girly girl, too, is how they described it, right? They were like. Think of, like.

[Asante]

She liked pink the room.

[Francesca]

Yeah, the. Yeah, absolutely. Even how they recreated her room in the documentary, right? It was like, think of, like, those pink peonies and a vase and like, small bottles of perfume as decor, you know, like that type of girly girl. And she also was the girl that had always been dreaming about her family in the future and marriage and her husband. We all have that friend that's, like, so anxious, low key, obsessive, right? About who she's gonna end up with. Where's my husband, apparently? And I think this with white people specifically, as someone. I went to school with them when they finish school, that is of focus, right? It's like my husband, usually it's someone from school in those communities, they take, like, your family pedigree and all those things very seriously, right? And so their friend group, by the time they finished college, was already getting married, getting engaged, families, all these things very early into their 20s. And this was just something that she started feeling a little bit of pressure about, right? Because she's like, dang, my whole, like, all my best friends are engaged or married already becoming mommies. And she would sit with them and ask them questions, like, how did you know he was the one? You know, looking at their rings and just, like, always fantasizing about this, right? And her friends were just kind of like, she was. You know, they would tell her, you're beautiful, you're talented, you're brilliant. It's gonna come when it's gonna come. Yeah. Like, just be easy, girl. You're gonna be totally fine.

[Dustin Ross]

Well, the problem is she came off as too high maintenance. All of the dilly dallies and the frills and the pink this and the peonies and all that. It was too much to keep up.

[Francesca]

I love that. Like, really girly girl, you know, traditional. And her best friend, Caitlin said all she wanted was to be in love and start a family. She was just so ready to start her life. And I found that so fascinating because in my early 20s, that was the farthest thing from my mind. Like, I don't remember when I graduated college, because I started thinking when I graduated college, what was I focused on? And really it was just getting a job. Especially being someone living in New York, there was so much pressure in a different way. Right. It was like, how are you going to have an apartment in this city as a 20 year old? You know what I mean? What can you do to sustain in one of the most expensive cities in the country? So that's where I was at with it. But, you know, people have different problems. She ended up getting an apartment in this city called Man Young, which I thought was an interesting name. Apparently is like a really cool place that a lot of students tended to move to. Affordable. They said it was the sub. It wasn't a suburb, but it kind of had that out of the way where you can go into Philly if you needed to. But it was outside enough, you know, to kind of like keep you out of. Out of the way.

[Dustin Ross]

You know what you call that? The outskirts.

[Francesca]

The outskirts.

[Asante]

It wasn't.

[Dustin Ross]

Some of it was on the outskirts.

[Francesca]

Right. So it was kind of perfect for a young person. Right. Cause they can kind of be in and out as they please. And lucky for her, one of her cousins, actually her cousin Debbie, also lived in Philly. So her mom felt a little better about that. You know, like, my daughter's out in Philly or outside of Philly, but at least she has a family member that can like watch over her and just be there in case that she needs anything. Yeah. Especially with. Especially with the family, the mom and dad not being able to be within reach in case of anything. Right. So one of her friends, Debbie, her cousin, was telling us how in the documentary, one of her friends had actually fixed her up finally with someone that she was excited about. His name was Sam, and he also came from a really good Jewish family. She was so excited about him, Literally beaming. Like, apparently their conversations were just hitting. He was just interesting.

[Asante]

We doing true crime? I'm not gonna let my guard down for a second. Okay, I'm listening.

[Francesca]

The funniest is last year when Y' all already suspected the killer, like, two minutes in, I was like, damn.

[Asante]

So it's Sam. Is that why you're taking a pause here?

[Francesca]

Cause Sam. Okay. Your face. But so Sam, I got my eye.

[Dustin Ross]

On Caitlyn, that best friend.

[Asante]

Go ahead.

[Francesca]

So, Sam, when the friend hooked them up, Ellen actually called her cousin Debbie because she was like, okay, if y' all are from, like, the same area, you might know who he is, Right? Never heard of him. You know how it goes. And her cousin was like, okay. I don't know him personally, but I am cool with his grandma and his. Right. Which I thought is just being cool.

[Asante]

His grandma is crazy.

[Francesca]

I'm cool. His grandma, and I'm cool with his aunt. So I'm familiar with family. Mm. She was like, the family is a really good family, so I'm going to assume that he's a good kid. Like, you should be straight. She gave her her blessings. Was like, I think you should pursue it, see what's up. So the thing with Sam is that he worked for the Golf Channel, which meant that he was gone a lot. Like, he would be managing tournaments and, you know, just a job that took him away a lot. So most of their conversations were on the phone. They're on FaceTime, and it took about a month or so before he was actually like, yo, let's see each other. Right? Like, can I take you on a date? And the thing was, he told her, if I take you on this date, though, I have to bring you out. I'm gonna be in Charleston, South Carolina. You know, working one of the tournaments. Is that weird? Or, like, you down to just, you know, fly out and. And kick it in Charleston for the weekend? She obviously, flying out to meet a stranger is a choice, right? Especially. I know that's not everyone's thing. And y' all both looking like.

[Asante]

Well, maybe, you know, for the sake of story. I'm just, you know, it's gonna look. It's different.

[Francesca]

Would y' all do it? I was gonna say, if y' all were talking to someone for a month and work took them away and them asking you on a date meant that you were gonna have to fly to them, would you do it? Mind you, you've never met them.

[Asante]

Okay. I'm a man of means already, so it's like, I can take the risk. So.

[Francesca]

Okay.

[Asante]

You know, I feel like it's different situations. I feel like you shouldn't put yourself in that situation if you can't get yourself out of it.

[Francesca]

So. Right. Right.

[Dustin Ross]

Then you gotta be Able to and nevermind. Because there's no way I can make that right. So let me just be quiet. I'm not even gonna make the point, but go ahead. It's just different for me.

[Francesca]

It's different rules. I haven't done it.

[Dustin Ross]

Different risks.

[Francesca]

The person came to me, which I felt more comfortable about. You know, for me personally, it came to me. We kicked it that weekend. I saw how I felt around them. And then after that, going to them was a different conversation. But the first trip, no, I personally, like, I needed. I need to see you, smell you, get some vibes, you know what I mean? So. But she was nervous about it.

[Asante]

Sorry, go ahead.

[Francesca]

She was nervous about it. She consulted all her friends, her aunt, I mean, her cousin, and was like, am I tripping? Like, would this be weird? They was like, girl. No, her cousin was funny because she was like, girl, this could either be a bomb ass, like how I met your mother ass story. You know what I mean? That you could tell your kids and grandkids or it'll be a disaster. And that's that. Either way fun. Either way, a fun story to tell.

[Dustin Ross]

Debbie.

[Asante]

I want people in the comments to say if they would go or not, you know, before we.

[Francesca]

Right.

[Asante]

Drop that before you keep listening.

[Dustin Ross]

And then depend on that and stand on it too, after the come out.

[Asante]

Okay.

[Dustin Ross]

Don't be trying to change it, but it's on the way. Whatever happened, happened. Stand on your comments.

[Asante]

I'll be looking forward to Spotify streets next week.

[Francesca]

But also, I think the culture of being flew out, as the youngins say, is a thing now. Like, that's not even weird. Maybe back in the day, I think it was probably a little more time.

[Dustin Ross]

Well, after that trial and what we found out about flying from state to state, I don't know if a lot of people gonna be doing that, wanna do that.

[Asante]

Yeah.

[Francesca]

And especially with crime stories, like so diddy man.

[Dustin Ross]

I was like, oh, that means that. Oh, got it. Nope. Hell no. Won't be no food out.

[Francesca]

Go ahead. So they go and spend this weekend in Charleston, South Carolina. She decides to go, obviously. And it ended up being wonderful. Like, she came back glowing, y'. All. She was like, y', all, I think I met my husband. Like, that's it.

[Dustin Ross]

It's that she probably had a seersucker dress with eyelid white. Eyelid white eyelid trim. They went and had mint juleps and ate chicken salad, drank lemonade with crackers.

[Francesca]

Juleps is so civic. But she came back glowing, y'. All. So he did what needed to be done, apparently. And after that, inseparable. So people were like, okay, this was. This is some soulmate shit, right? They were talking every day. They were in at this point of the doc, they were putting their text messages between each other on the screen, right? And they did that throughout the doc, just showing her personality as she engaged with different people in her life.

[Dustin Ross]

Reading their face.

[Francesca]

And so you see the text and.

[Dustin Ross]

I'm trying to show you their face, friend.

[Francesca]

No, the text are really lovey dovey. Think of like the honeymoon phase, right?

[Dustin Ross]

When you're.

[Francesca]

Those first couple months, you're like, I miss you, thinking of you. Like, I can't. And she was like, I think I've.

[Asante]

Ever had a text face. Like.

[Dustin Ross]

I have. And I hate myself.

[Francesca]

You're like, deleted. Peggy, deleted. But she. They were just so lovey dubby and mushy, and it was really cute. And she would text him. Like, the hard part is that you do travel a lot, you know, and I have to wait like a month or a week to see you. And she seemed a little anxious. She seemed a little anxious about it. And some of you are like that.

[Dustin Ross]

You need to enjoy your time.

[Francesca]

You never dated someone that was like that, where they, like, especially if it was long distance, where y' all weren't in the same city, where there's always the one person that's a little more anxious than the other one about how long it's gonna be till the next time, right? There's always one person. And she seemed to be that person. Just very anxious about it.

[Asante]

I'm that person. At times it switches and it can switch.

[Francesca]

Yeah.

[Dustin Ross]

Nothing wrong with it. It's just at all. Ever.

[Francesca]

You know what?

[Dustin Ross]

Different strokes are never different strokes.

[Asante]

You know, I can't even imagine you being.

[Dustin Ross]

I can't even imagine myself.

[Francesca]

But I will say this. She was sending the more anxious text. But I did see one text from him that. I don't know. I'm also the type of girl that be reading into things where he was like, I just know you're gonna get sick of me. I don't know why. That felt very like, ew.

[Dustin Ross]

Because it's a stupid thing to say.

[Francesca]

This song because it's just like, what do. I don't like people that.

[Dustin Ross]

How do you respond?

[Asante]

You're eating this right now.

[Francesca]

Yeah. Like, how does this come up already? That just reads very insecure and kind of like, weird. I don't know, maybe it's just me.

[Dustin Ross]

But some sort of validation or you need to Be affirmed in some way by me.

[Francesca]

I don't know. Yeah.

[Asante]

Like, my response would have been like.

[Dustin Ross]

The clock just started ticking.

[Asante]

So it's not just me.

[Francesca]

Okay. Because I don't.

[Asante]

So by you pointing out that text friend, you point out that they both had quirks about it.

[Francesca]

They both had anxieties about each other, apparently, in different ways. Right. And to me.

[Dustin Ross]

So how would you have looked at your phone when you saw the text friend, when he said, I feel like you're gonna get sick of me, what would you have done? Cause I would have been like.

[Francesca]

Who.

[Dustin Ross]

Would you have done?

[Francesca]

No, that's when you do that court. That girl in the courthouse in the picture where she's like, oh, yeah, that's me. Cause it's like, aw. And I liked you. But anyways, after three years of dating y', all. Three years and three years, Sam proposes.

[Asante]

Good.

[Dustin Ross]

I think that's a good healthy time.

[Francesca]

I think that's a good. I think. I think it takes at minimum two years. I say two. In my experience with men, two years before I actually started understanding who they were with any type of clarity. It's usually at the two year mark, and that's usually when people break up. I figured.

[Dustin Ross]

I love the way you articulated that, because in my mind, when you said two years, until I figure out, in my mind, I was like, until I figured it motherfucker out. And that was the end of the sentence. But you articulated the entirety of it.

[Francesca]

Yeah, yeah. You just start seeing shit and start being like, I don't want to be here anymore. But three years, apparently it worked. He proposed. The family said one thing about her. She was always happy. Like, you would mention him, and she's smiling ear to ear. So the family was happy. This is what she wanted. The friends had mentioned that she's been that little girl that was always wondering about when her husband was coming. So they were happy that she got this right. It's like, she deserved it. She was sweet. Finally got her man he proposed to.

[Dustin Ross]

And then he murdered the fuck out of her in apartment 603.

[Francesca]

No.

[Dustin Ross]

And then Ellen, that's what he did.

[Francesca]

She went and got her wedding dress and was like, trying it on, and they were preparing for this wedding. I think within six months, I think they were already kind of getting the wedding dress and going out to get the save the dates, you know, and, you know, you have to, like, design the save the date cards that you're gonna send out and just all that that goes into preparing for a wedding day and the wedding was set for August 13, 2011. This is also giving you a time frame of when the case was taken before 9 11. So they were going to have this wedding at the Hotel Hershey. And apparently the ring was beautiful. Like, everything was just nice. However, her friends did mention that after she got engaged, save the dates are being sent out, you know, she gets the dress. Something in her energy kind of shifted that was confusing because it's like if you're the girl that's always been waiting for this day and now you in your moment, you get your moment. You're supposed to be higher than high. Right. But they noticed that, like, she wasn't like, they said that her. It was like a. Her little light, the light that she used to carry was kind of like dimmed at some point. She wasn't even wearing the ring. But she would say, like, oh, it's because, you know, after she had graduated and started working, she started working in this school called the Juniata Parkwood Academy. Now, I looked it up because I said, I know how white girls. I know white girls when they get. When they become teachers. And it'll be in like, in inner city schools in the whole class. Y' all seen this dynamic. So she was like, I'm not wearing my ring to school to work. And there was a part of that that like, even I understand because I feel like if I had a ring, regardless if I was teaching out of school or not, I can understand not feeling comfortable in general, just being outside in the world with the diamonds.

[Asante]

Unless you're just like ultra rich in them circles where you could just rock like that and just with you or some shit.

[Francesca]

Yeah. Where you. Where your life is just going to galas and fundraisers and you have a driver. Like, yeah, you can wear your. But most of us that are commuting.

[Asante]

Okay.

[Dustin Ross]

Yeah.

[Asante]

Even in traffic, someone could pull.

[Francesca]

You know what I'm saying? So, like, so I. There was a level that kind of cracked me up because I know she was like, I'm not wearing my.

[Asante]

Yeah.

[Francesca]

To that school.

[Asante]

But also assuming that it was the.

[Francesca]

Actual case, but also on some real life shit. I understand because I probably wouldn't either.

[Dustin Ross]

But we know that she was going through.

[Francesca]

That's something. Yeah. Because for you to be that excited and finally get your moment, you're not wearing the ring. But when they would ask her, where is your ring? She would say, girl, you know, I can't wear this to school. I just don't really wear it a lot. But that combined with the energy shift Right now, when they would ask her what's going on, like, her friends and her cousin, she would attribute this to the school. And when they looked through the text, because they did post those on the screen as well. Like her text messages to Sam or to.

[Dustin Ross]

Damn. When they looked through the text, they.

[Francesca]

Would say things like, I'm so stressed out. Like, being a teacher is hard. They even had her co workers on the dock. And they admitted, like, yo, we would have classroom settings of 40 children at some point. 40 children by yourself.

[Dustin Ross]

That's a lot of kids elementary.

[Francesca]

And not only that, but the amount of paperwork. Anyone who's a teacher or has been around a teacher. My mom was a teacher for 25 years, so I know the paperwork is next level. And it seems like as time has passed, there's even more paperwork. There's so much red tape. You gotta deal with administrations that are full of shit. Like, it's just a lot. And she apparently was not handling this teaching career and the stress of it. There was one text where she sent out to, I believe it was Sam or maybe her cousin Debbie, where she was like, yo, one of the kids was choking someone out in the middle of the class. Like, literally could have killed someone. And she was just so stressed about the environment and her ability to facilitate the classroom while also handling the paperwork. And not to mention, she planning a wedding. They said her energy just was not good and she was spiraling. And she called her dad and was like, I want to come home. And that was a little bit confusing too, right? Because it's like, you have this perfect life now, right? And her friends even said, like, her living with Sam changed her life completely. Like, the apartment they was in was dope. She. Her friend said she went from shopping at, like, regular stores to, like, Nordstrom's. You know, like, her life elevated in a lot of ways. She has this life. And so her calling her dad, saying, I want to come home was like, a little bit jarring. And her dad was like, go ahead.

[Asante]

Is this nice apartment that you talk about? Is this 603?

[Francesca]

It is 603.

[Asante]

Okay. I just wanted to. All right. All right.

[Francesca]

Yeah. And so she heard when she called her dad. Now, her dad admitted, right? He was like, at the time, as a dad, mind you, this is their only child. His concern was, my child has worked so hard for this career. You know what I mean? When you're a teacher, there's a lot of schooling. There's a lot that goes into you becoming a teacher, deciding on this career, and a lot you know, there's steps. You gotta be a para and then you become a teacher. Like, he was like, I'm not letting her do because she's going through an episode or whatever it was she was dealing with at the time. I'm not going to let her just throw everything away. Like, he also just didn't want her to think that that's how life worked, you know what I mean? Oh, I don't want to do this. I'm coming home. So he told her, you're not actually. And he said admittedly, what the deal he made with her was. Listen, if you really are dealing with like depression and anxiety, let's get you a psychiatrist. Psychiatrist. Let's get you seeing a psychiatrist. Let's see if it's some type of chemical imbalance or if there's a way, some way you can receive some assistance. Take the meds that they offer, see how those make you feel. And then if you still feel like shit about your life, you can come home. But if the meds help you feel better, you know, because they gave her meds for anxiety, meds for sleeping, you know, different things that could kind of help. A cocktail that help her balance herself out, ground her so she can get through the workday. She agreed. And she got the first round of meds that the psychiatrist gave her. Did not work. She actually felt like shit. She thought it was too much. She didn't like feeling like a zombie is how she described it. Right. It's just not really what she was looking to featured. And I heard it takes a while too to find, like, the right medication, the right dose. It's a lot to figure out what works with your system. But finally, after some time, the psychiatrist apparently, you know, they figured it out and she got meds that were great for her and she started feeling good. She was like, you know what? I feel much better, actually. And then you see the text exchanges with her and everyone in her life where she's letting them know, like, I'm actually feeling much better. I'm kind of low key, glad that this is what my dad suggested. And then he felt better too, right? So now she's getting through school and everything's fine, and she's starting to change. So people felt like, okay, maybe it was work, you know, maybe it really was just a lot for this girl. But as time progressed, she kind of went right back into the same spiral after that. And so now everybody's like, okay, girl, we don't know what to do. Like, you know, and even Sam, the Problem with Sam, too, was that he wasn't around a lot. Remember, he's like, at work at these tournaments.

[Dustin Ross]

So that was also chasing a damn golf ball.

[Francesca]

And when you look at the text that was also compounded for her, right? You had. Now you're on meds. Now you're seeing a psychiatrist. You're dealing with this school job that is overwhelming you. You're planning a wedding. Your. Your fiance is rarely home. In the text messages, you saw that her anxiety started to build a little because now she was sending the multiple question mark text. You know, when you get to that point, right? Oh, God, we've all been there. And she's like, hey, I feel like I haven't spoken to you. You know, she started sending those texts like, I just feel like we haven't spoken. Are you gonna be free at all? Like. And he's just like, hey, babylove. You know, like, kind of like in. But not really paying attention to what she's saying. You know, when you get to that point and she's like, can G chat? Like, can you call me? You free in 10. What's up? Sending him, like, the three and four question marks. So you see this anxiety building in her over what he was doing and sort of feeling like there was some kind of disengagement going on energetically, which.

[Dustin Ross]

Told y' all high maintenance. Go ahead.

[Francesca]

So she's like, already in a spiral. And y' all know on some human shit, when you're in a spiral already or in just not a good headspace, everything is turns into something. Because that's just how your mind is perceiving shit, right?

[Asante]

Confirmation bias on 10.

[Francesca]

It just gets bad. It gets bad out here. So he. Her father, at this point, he felt that she was being dramatic, and he admitted that he was like, I think she was being a little over the top about everything. You know, she was. He was being over the top. And so he was trying so hard to understand, but people seem to have been struggling with the level of spiral that she was showing. And at one point, and they admitted that they were like, we. We didn't take it as seriously. We thought she was just, like, being a lot about how she was feeling. And apparently her best. She had another best friend named Allison. Allison's father in law, his name is Bruce. He also worked at the school. He was a teacher, obviously much older. So he'd been there for a long time. He even told Alison, like, girl, this is not that bad. He's like, I'm here in the same school. And I get that it can be stressful, but the way that she's spiraling, he told her, your friend is just crazy. Literally her words in the doc. My father in law said, your BF is just fucking crazy. She is making a lot out of this thing. And so it seemed like that was the general consensus that people were trying their best to support her, but also feeling like, we don't necessarily know what's going on with you, girl. Get a grip. So, so there was a day that there was a snow day, right? And it said this snow day. Everyone was excited. It actually was funny cause the co workers, the teachers were like, we were excited just like the kids were about snow days. Because shit, we wanna stay home too. You know what I'm saying?

[Dustin Ross]

Cause that school was fucked up just like she said it was. While they talk shit. That's why they knew it snow day.

[Asante]

Yes.

[Francesca]

Especially when it's all white teachers. There's already a disconnect happening culturally. So that's a lot of what happened with my mom when she was at the school. She said that the young white teachers that they would bring in, it just changed the dynamic of the school in a lot of ways, you know, and my mom even felt like she was pushed out. You know, they would make things more complicated and harder and more red tape. And she felt in a lot of ways they wanted those older black teachers the fuck out of there.

[Dustin Ross]

Push them out.

[Francesca]

Yeah, yeah. And so I know a lot of the politics that happens in schools like that inner city school. So hearing about this, I just knew.

[Dustin Ross]

There was a lot lining up for you.

[Francesca]

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So this is like January 26th, 2011. Philly is hit with this crazy nor'. Easter. Like you remember back in the day when we were kids, those crazy snowstorms and then you had to wait. Do you remember you had to wait on the news to see the ticker.

[Dustin Ross]

And it would say what schools are open or closed.

[Francesca]

Yeah, every morning we are. How crazy sad. So the teachers was waiting, but apparently they start to come in. So they was confused, like, well, how are we gonna come in? And it's looking like this outside. But then halfway through the school day, they decided, okay, y' all get to go home early. It was like 11am, y' all can go. Irritating. Imagine you got it all the way out there and now shit's fucked because you're in the middle of a blizzard. Trying to get back home is gonna be hell. And Bruce, her best friend's father in law, said that he had seen her out of her car. He had seen Ellen out of her car. And the car, everyone's car was full of snow at this point. Ice and snow combo. Y' all know how irritating that is. He said it took him an hour just to get her car from under the snow and get her situated. Because he said she had been spiraling in general, but now she was extra because apparently report cards were also due that day. So she's like, oh my God. She was freaking out about the data not having everything turned in. He was telling her, just chill out, you know, go home, take the rest of the day. At least we have a half day. You can figure it out.

[Dustin Ross]

Blue Ivy.

[Francesca]

He said, it's right. He said it took him what would normally be a 15 minute commute home. It took him an hour and a half. That's how. How terrible is that? I can't even imagine, Lord, as a newer driver.

[Dustin Ross]

Thank you. I'm not delivering me from Michigan, Lord, because I've been there. I can't even imagine driving for me. Ain't been no crystal staircase in Michigan. Because I remember all of that. Yes. But I also learned how to drive in that. So I have the skill level where it wasn't intimidating to handle it. It just was a bitch to deal with with. You know what I mean? So, yes, I feel.

[Francesca]

And people, their cars skidding, or what.

[Dustin Ross]

Do they call it, sliding, all that on the ice. Black ice.

[Francesca]

The black ice. Talk about fear unlocked. But he was saying that to show the. The level of blizzard. It was that night. Right. So it took her long as well. He said by the time they all got home, she actually called him. Everyone kind of checking in on each other to see if you were good, you made it back. And when he said they were talking, she still spir about these report cards. And he said at that point he was like, girl, I don't have nothing for you. Yeah, like it's a. It's a half day. I need to chill. So he calls her best friend, which is his daughter in law, and he's telling her like, yo, your friend. It's just a lot. What is wrong with this girl?

[Dustin Ross]

She's wound up, spiraling.

[Francesca]

And then in the documentary, her best friend said that while she was what I would take gossiping with her father in law about Ellen, Ellen actually called her on the other line and she didn't answer it. And she said to this day, she kicks herself in the ass so much because she's like, I did not answer it. And the crazy part Is y' all know she didn't answer because she was gossiping with her father in law, Literally gossiping about her. And probably was like, oh, it's her on the other line. He's probably doing crazy. She's gonna call us her now, right? She didn't say that, but that's what I read in. And so she didn't call. And so, you know, at this point, everyone's home dealing with the snore Easter. The city has just been completely slowed down. We know what that's like, right? Slow days. So, Sam, this is where we see on the cctv, which is the surveillance for the building. At the time, the building didn't have surveillance in the hallways or the elevators. Which is strange to me because I'm like, in 2011, that's.

[Dustin Ross]

That should have been cold. Like, have that shit to even open.

[Francesca]

We ain't talking about the 70s or 80s. Like the 2011. That surprised me so much. They only had cameras in the lobby. That's it. And like the door, you know, the doors outside and around the building, but nothing inside, which was. Is strange to me. Okay, so we see Sam comes to concierge and he tells concierge, hey. So I just left the apartment upstairs. Concierge, you know, when you live in a building like that, concierge knows everybody. Like, they know your name, know who you are. So he went up to concierge. I believe his name was. Phil's like an older black man. He's like, I just left the Ellen upstairs. I come down to the building gym to work out for like 30, 40 minutes. I go upstairs. He's like, bro, I'm knocking and she is not opening the door. He's like, it's kind of pissing me off. Like, I'm trying to get in there. He's like, I'm calling her, I'm texting her. I'm knocking, talking in the hallway, and she's just not opening the door. He's like, I can't imagine why she's not opening the door. And the guy was like, you think she's good? I'll keep calm. Calling. They keep calling. Sam's like, I'm gonna just try again. Goes upstairs, knocking on the door, knocking, knocking. At this point, the neighbor that lived across the way opens his door, right? Because he's like, what's happening that you are knocking for this long? Yeah, it was like 30 minutes or something crazy. And he said that he heard Sam getting. He heard Sam getting pissed and being like, Ellen, like, what the. So he's thinking, okay, they must be having like a fight, right? She probably locked him out, kicked him out. He probably did some shit. He's trying to get back in. He said he didn't really think of nothing of it. So he just closed the door. He was like, these are young people. This is an older man. Closes the door, doesn't think anything of it. At this point, Sam goes back downstairs and he's like, Phil, he's like, she's not opening the door. Like, now she's pissing me off. And he said Sam was like noticeably agitated, but who wouldn't be, man, leave me out this.

[Dustin Ross]

This personal ass shit.

[Asante]

Oh no, Sam.

[Dustin Ross]

Not the concierge field. Sam was in.

[Francesca]

Sam is noticeably agitated. In my mind, I'm like, who wouldn't be? If you're trying to get back in your apartment and you can't, right? That he. I guess they have fobs. He maybe didn't take it. But what happened is apparently the apartments have a latch. Y' all know those latches that they're like the silver ones. They latch. And then he couldn't get past the latch. So he's like trying to talk to her. Even with the fob, if that latch is put on, I mean, he has to stop.

[Dustin Ross]

Yeah.

[Francesca]

So he's kind of like, what the fuck? So he told Phil, the only thing that could make sense to me is that she went to wash her hair. And you know, anyone knows if we in there washing our hair, good luck. Or she's working with her headphones. And he's like, but I just don't understand why she would have put the latch, you know, like, that's where he was getting agitated. And he said, he told Phil, I'm about to break the motherfucking door down. I'm not gonna hold you.

[Asante]

How long was it at this point? An hour.

[Francesca]

A little under an hour of him not being able to get up there and her not responding to his text or nothing, which is really pissing him off. Cause he's like, I just left her. Like, yeah. Apparently it was 4:50 when he left the apartment. Went. Went downstairs to the apartment gym. And by 5:30 he was back upstairs.

[Asante]

And couldn't get in there and couldn't.

[Francesca]

And that's what he was like, how she's just not answering the phone, like. So he goes upstairs and remember he told Phil, I'm breaking the toy down. Like, I'm letting you know right now. Phil was like, don't do that. But he said he just was so agitated he went up, he kicked that door down. And because it was only connected by the latch, at that point, he kicks through. And when he opens it, Ellen is sitting in the kitchen floor in a pool of blood. And so he's like, what the fuck? Right? How? Especially if the door was latched closed, which means how could. Like, there was no entry. What do they call it?

[Dustin Ross]

Point other than. Yeah, to force entry.

[Francesca]

There's the term I was looking for. There was no forced entry. The fact that it was locked from the inside, that means, like, there's. This is an apartment, this isn't a house with other exits. It just didn't make any sense. She's laying there in a pool of blood. He's like, freaking the fuck out. He calls 911. When 911 answers, the girl is like, how can I help you? What's going on? He's like, I have no idea what happened. What?

[Dustin Ross]

No cameras in the hallway, right? So now is he not going to be able to prove that he kicked the door in, right? Are they gonna try to frame him for the year?

[Francesca]

So he's caused now when he's like, yo, I don't understand what the fuck happened, But I just got in here. She's laying in a pool of blood in the kitchen. He was like, you don't understand. Like, I just left her. Like, this isn't making any sense. He's not understanding. So the. The 911 lady's trying to get him to calm down, right? Because he's trying to explain. She's like, calm the fuck down. This is what I need you to do. Can you tell if she's breathing? He's like, I can't tell. She's like, well, look at her chest. Is it going up and down? Like, feel for a pulse. He finally tells her he does not think she's breathing. He can't tell. He's too panicked at this point. So he's like, not really following instructions. She tries to guide him into how to give cpr. She tells her, you gotta. She tells him, you gotta put her on her back. Put her on her back and open her shirt so he could do the compressions, right? So when he goes to do that, he tells her, oh, shit. He's like, there's a fucking knife in her chest, like in her heart. And he tells, 91 1, she's. It's like she stabbed herself or she fell on the knife. He's like, I'm not understanding, but there's a knife sitting out. Like, literally, you stay showed pictures which is too much for me. But of the knife sitting out of her chest, like she stabbed herself in the chest. And the girl. And the girl's like, can you give her cpr? And he's like, I mean, I guess I have to, right? Like that's what he's kind of like.

[Asante]

And you can hear him.

[Francesca]

You can hear him being grossed out because he kept going, oh, my God. Like, you could tell it was just a lot like for him to come into that.

[Dustin Ross]

The. He kicked the door in. The nigga across the hall heard him arguing with her.

[Francesca]

Well, heard him trying to get her to open the door. He didn't hear her arguing. He heard him being like, ellen, what the fuck? Open the door. That's what he heard. Which makes sense, right? Because it's kind of what Sam was telling the doorman. Like, I'm trying to get her to open and she's not responsive. So that's the part that was like a little bit tricky. So now, you know, police come, firemen come. Right. Because fire and rescue tend to be the first responders. And this is where the neighbor said he overhears Sam talking to the police and telling them about Ellen's mental health issues and the fact that she was on meds. And him sort of being like. I'm not saying. Yeah, him sort of being like, I'm not trying to say she did it, but she does have some issues going on that I can see. Like, if she. And she's been spiraling, he kind of was, you know, telling them these things. And the police just took his word for it that she did this to herself. Yeah. They were like, okay. And so because they believed him, that she, quote, unquote, did this to herself, that this was self inflicted, a stabbing suicide, which I never heard of. I was like, I mean, obviously with the world we live in, there's always going to be a situation for everything. But I've never heard of established suicide.

[Asante]

How many wounds did she. Was it just the one in the eyeball?

[Francesca]

Well, hold on. Right, yeah.

[Asante]

Okay.

[Francesca]

So he tells them this and they go with that. And they just put it in the police file that this was suicide. So because they marked it as suicide, it's no longer a crime scene.

[Asante]

So the body did need to be examined.

[Francesca]

The body didn't need to be examined. The crime scene wasn't held. They actually told the crime scene investigators they didn't have to come because it was. They don't need to do ballistics hair. They didn't need to do any of that. Because this isn't a crime scene. It's a suicide. There was nothing to figure out. Right.

[Asante]

And it was ruled that immediately.

[Francesca]

Like immediately, like because Sam, because Sam said it was a suicide. The police just ruled it as such and that was that. And there is a. There was a. I'm trying to remember her role actually. She was a medical examiner which, you know, they were speaking to later who said that that was problematic as fuck because she said you don't get to decide that. Like she said, the she said, the way she explained it was.

[Asante]

If you could hear love, what would it sound like?

[Dustin Ross]

Son, can we talk about your drinking? Yeah, Dad, I think we should.

[Asante]

Helping those closest to you think about their excessive drinking. Drinking.

[Francesca]

Maybe that's what love sounds like.

[Asante]

More at rethink the drink.com an OHA.

[Francesca]

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[Dustin Ross]

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile.

[Asante]

Now I don't know if you've heard.

[Dustin Ross]

But Mint's Premium Wireless is $15 a month. But I'd like to offer one other perk. We have no stores.

[Asante]

That means no small talk.

[Dustin Ross]

Crazy weather we're having.

[Asante]

No, it's not. It's just weather. It is an introvert's dream.

[Dustin Ross]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Francesca]

Of $45 per three month plan. $15 per month equivalent required.

[Asante]

New customer offer first three months only. Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra.

[Francesca]

See mintmobile.com the crime scene itself is the police's jurisdiction, right? But the body and everything having to do with the body and everything around the body, that's the medical examiner's jurisdiction. And so they work in tandem, right? So the medical examiner is supposed to be the one to come out and then the two of them discuss the investigation at the crime scene and they come together with their notes and decide what the ruling is. Is this an accident? Is this a homicide? Is it, you know what I mean, Undetermined. They decide that not some person because.

[Asante]

There'S a body there. The medical examiner has to examine the body.

[Francesca]

And that's how they come to the conclusion.

[Asante]

They come over to the investigator and say, hey, this is what I have. So the investigator says, hey, this is what I have. Like, it's like, hey, you know, this is not a crime scene. Because old boy said the story and it's like, okay, well, hey, I looked at the body and this is what the story says. So this actually is like, it's supposed to work that way. It's not supposed to just be like.

[Francesca]

That'S the part that people were like, huh?

[Asante]

That's why I'm sitting here, fucked up friend.

[Dustin Ross]

And at no point did it cross anybody's mind, hey, he could have killed her. That never crossed nobody's mind. Like, nobody said, well, there's also the possibility that he could have murdered.

[Francesca]

The killer is talking to us.

[Dustin Ross]

Yeah, what the fuck?

[Francesca]

But this is the part where everyone is so confused, right? Because they're like, what the fuck is happening? Like, how. How does the a person that was a part of the situation at hand just get to tell the police what it is? And they just say, okay, like, but one, one private investigator during the documentary was saying that Philadelphia has such a high rate of crime, so many homicides, it's not a surprise that people just be wanting to wrap shit up. You know what I mean? Like, it's like this one less thing we need to investigate. You say a suicide. Bet they get to just close the case. Because apparently they would have up to 65 homicides a day. You know what I mean? Like, it was bad.

[Dustin Ross]

0.

[Francesca]

Even though human life, that's no consideration, right? And even though in this particular area, Mana Young they said that this wasn't Philly, you know what I mean? They probably saw one or two homicides in their 20 plus year career in this area. Like, that's how far removed it was from that type of reality. And so that's kind of, I think too, why they were like, nah, this song, you know, people love to be like, that doesn't happen around here. That's. That never happens in places like this.

[Dustin Ross]

And you also have to consider the fact that the name was very hard to pronounce. So most criminals wouldn't want to include that in a crime. Pain. You can't, you know, say Philly quick. Philly, you know, and it's done. You can't. Monotaka Taka. Taka, Taka. Whatever it's called, you can't really say that.

[Francesca]

It just wasn't. It wasn't their Reality. So Phil, the concierge is downstairs. He don't know what's going on because when Sam had told him he's gonna break the door down, he couldn't actually go upstairs with him because he said, part of the job is that you can't leave the desk. The only time you can leave the desk is if it's law enforcement, you know, something serious, like today. And he said that he was talking to the fire and rescue and was like, everything cool, you know, like they figured. They opened the door, everything fine. And fire and rescue looked at him and said, you need to call a homicide detective. And he said, he looked at him like, what the fuck? Like, so Ellen. Ellen is dead. Like what he's thinking, they're just having a little fight, you know, she can't. He can't get in. Or maybe she was washing her hair. Like, he said this was so far from what he thought was happening. And he was so shocked, shocked. He called the manager of the building, the property manager, to let her know, like, yo, I don't know what we do from here, but there's a death. Like, you gotta come to the building. She comes, she says she didn't even know what to do because she never dealt with no shit like this. She's like, I've dealt with evictions, you know, broken doors, like the typical shit, but never a death. She didn't even know the steps, like, protocol. Go ahead.

[Asante]

Only because you mentioned broken doors, your honor. At any other point, did anyone make note of the door being broke?

[Francesca]

Like the neighbor that was down the hall, like, if he heard the break. The property manager, that was interesting, you know what I'm saying? Like, he. The neighbor that was like, kind of aware of what was popping off. There's no part in the dock where he mentions that he saw him break the door down.

[Dustin Ross]

Or does he mention that the door was not broken when he saw him talking to her?

[Francesca]

No, it was just latched when he saw him trying to talk. And one thing that the property manager said, she was like that everyone kept focusing on that door being latched as evidence of it being a suicide. Because they're like, well, nobody left. No force entry. It was closed. She's only went in there, but there.

[Asante]

Was no forced entry, even though he.

[Francesca]

Had broke in there, but well after the fact. But she said that one thing about those doors. And I remember doors like that, so I know what she's saying. Those really heavy ass doors that when you walk out and it slams real hard sometimes. She said the Latch could have locked. It would slam so hard that the latch would swing and lock the door. I've actually had doors like that, so I know what she's talking about. She said, is this something that happens every time? No, but is it something that happens? It's a possibility with those heavy ass doors. So she said it could very well have been that as well. She did mention that in the doc. But all in all, she's kind of freaked out because she's like, oh, my God, I don't know what the steps are to this. She says she gets a phone call from Sam's family, from his uncle, who is a prominent Philadelphia attorney. And he tells her that he wants to get into the apartment to help Sam and pick up some of his stuff so that Sam doesn't have to go back in there. Right? He's like, but I want to be the one to do it. So she's kind of like, hold on. I don't know if I could just be letting people in there to get stuff, you know, like, she didn't know the protocol around that. So she was like, let me get back to you. She calls the police and asked them permission. Like, you know, his uncle called saying he wanted to get some personal belongings. So I just let him in. And the police said, yeah, yes, let him in. And hold on. They also told her. She said she was talking to them and was like, okay, but it's like, bloody and I mean, someone just died in a really tragic way. How am I just, like, letting them in? And she said the police told her, here's a number for crime scene cleanup. Have them come tomorrow to clean up the crime scene before the uncle arrives. And she was like, oh, okay, if y' all say so. Mind you, this is the police. She don't know. She's just following orders. Cause crime scene cleanup, she said, two men in hazmat suits pull up. And she was like, what the. So she said she. She felt a little weird, like, internally, like, I don't know. This is weird. So she said something in her. Told her, you better go into that apartment first and film everything.

[Dustin Ross]

Yes, good, good.

[Francesca]

Right. So she said she took a camera and just filmed everything. She was like, I don't know why. I just. I'm getting this. Pull. Let me film. She said part of it was liability, right? Like, if anything's missing or something got taken, I don't want this put to me because I told this company to come and I let the uncle in. Meanwhile, I'm following police orders. But she Just didn't want any kickback. So she filmed everything. Yeah. Made sure she document what the apartment looked like before the cleanup crew and before the uncle had arrived. So they clean everything up. She said she's watching them. Watching them because she stayed in there with them as a person. Stayed in there because she said as a property manager, she felt like, I need to know what's going on. She said they have these suits, they're cleaning everything. They're putting the dishes and the knives. Mind you, a knife was the knives into the dishwasher and cleaning everything up. She says after they leave the next morning, the uncle comes and he takes things. But she says she notices that he leaves with Ellen's things as well. Her electronics, specifically. He took her laptop and her phone. But him being a prominent attorney and her having gotten the permission of the police and them apparently working in tandem, she was like, I. Well, you know, this is my jurisdiction. I'm just opening the door. And he left with her electronics.

[Dustin Ross]

And where is Ellen's family at?

[Francesca]

That's the part I mean, I get.

[Dustin Ross]

Even though she gone.

[Francesca]

Well, that's the thing they get called. So the lady said, sam's dad, Sam's family. Later, later. Like the next day, later in the day, they're like, oh, we gotta call Ellen's family, right? This is the part that's like, what is going on? It's almost like they didn't want them to know yet so that they can get this off.

[Dustin Ross]

First Sam, then.

[Francesca]

Then they write. Literally, they call the mom to let her know what happened. And they tell her Ellen committed suicide. And the mom was like, what the are you talking about? You know what I mean? Like, and all the friends and cousins were like, no. Like, yes, she was anxious and shit was going on, but that's just not her. Like, they just didn't see it for that, you know, and they weren't understanding. And apparently in Jewish. Jewish custom, they have to be buried within two days of their death. So. Which posed another problem, right? Because it's like, they. We already don't know what's going on. It's suspicious.

[Dustin Ross]

So apparently fucking with our salvation.

[Francesca]

And they have to put her in the ground and bury her when, like, we might need her body to, like, really understand what happened. So it's just a lot going on too fast, you know what I mean? So they. The medical examiner, when they took her in, though, one thing they noted in the file was that she had been stabbed. Get this. 20 times.

[Dustin Ross]

Come on, come on. Friends, man.

[Francesca]

And because the Crime scene wasn't held because they had cleaned it up, because there were no photographs. They didn't even know at the time that half of those stab wounds were in her back. Her back.

[Asante]

What the hell? What the hell?

[Francesca]

One of them being in behind her neck, cutting her dang spinal cord, which would have debilitated her damn near immediately. Even later, one of the friends, one of the neuropathologists that they had in the medical examiner's team said that from her understanding, when she was reviewing the files later, she said there was a huge possibility that a lot of those stab wounds from the back were done after she was already dead, which means she stabbed herself when she was dead. If we're following that, this is a suicide. You know what I'm saying?

[Asante]

Right.

[Francesca]

So the medical examiner was like, hold on, no, this is clearly not a suicide. This is a homicide. And he marked it as such. And it was crazy because at. They released that to the public, to the media, on the news that it was changed. That what was initially mentioned to me, the public was made aware. And this was the same day of. Of the funeral and burial.

[Asante]

Oh, my God.

[Francesca]

So the dad gets to the. To do the eulogy, and he tells them in it at the funeral service, y', all, this just got changed to a homicide. So they said it was like a pin drop. They said Sam and his whole family. You just saw everybody freeze the fuck up. Because whatever quote unquote had been planned with all this moving so fast, cast clearly had been interrupted. Interrupted at that point. And the news was now made aware. And so she said the cousin was like. You could hear a pin drop. And she said the crazy part was that Sam had come in there wailing, crying, screaming. She said low key. It was like, you know, like performance.

[Dustin Ross]

Yeah.

[Francesca]

Everyone until that announcement was made. And she said would in Jewish custom, they do sitting Shiva, where you're supposed to sit with the family in their house for seven days.

[Asante]

Yeah.

[Francesca]

To, you know, make sure they're eating, make sure they're in high spirits. And she said that you tend to go immediately after the burial service. Right. And it took Sam's family over an hour and some change before they arrived.

[Dustin Ross]

Yeah, because they had to plot.

[Francesca]

They had to have a meeting.

[Dustin Ross]

No pun intended.

[Francesca]

Right, right. And she said everyone was kind of weirded out by that because normally everyone kind of leaves like a caravan after the burial service and heads together, especially if you are the deceased person's partner. So the fact that they didn't get there till an hour and some change later, Was just really strange. And even the family's energy as they walked in. Right.

[Dustin Ross]

I need to know what happens.

[Francesca]

So now everybody's like, what the hell is going on? You know what I'm saying? And at this time, the medical examiner, like I said, he marks it a homicide. But the homicide investigators are like, but we didn't come in and hold the scene.

[Dustin Ross]

Right?

[Francesca]

Shit was cleaned up because it was without a trace. Determined to be a suit, not a trace case. So the police contact Sam's cousin uncle too, because they're like, we were told that you have her electronics. This is now a crime scene.

[Asante]

Of course, here.

[Dustin Ross]

He don't talk to him happily.

[Francesca]

No, no, he happily gave. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dustin Ross]

Because they was wiped clean by that point.

[Francesca]

Not only were they wiped clean. One csi, like cyber security, but also attorney attorney that they had on there. He said one thing people don't realize. Yeah, they was playing specialty. Yes. What A pocket cybersecurity attorney. He said that one thing people don't realize is that you can add to browser searches and backdate them if you know what you're doing.

[Asante]

What the fuck? Okay, sorry. Go on.

[Francesca]

So part of the evidence, quote unquote, is that she had been googling quick and painless ways to die. No how to die quietly, mind you.

[Asante]

None of this painless.

[Francesca]

And you chose 21 or 20 stab.

[Dustin Ross]

Wounds in your back.

[Asante]

What?

[Francesca]

And clearly. And here's the thing. Clearly. Right, because when Sam found her, the. This. The final. Right. The ultimate stab was in her heart. Right? Because that's where the knife was found. So you telling me she stabbed. Her spinal cord sheath is what they called it. All the stuff behind her. There was a blunt force one at the back of her head. All the ones in the front. And she still had enough to finally stab herself in the heart.

[Dustin Ross]

I cannot.

[Asante]

Did this medical examiner. Did they. Were they. Did they run a toxicology report before the body was turned back over to the family or for the.

[Francesca]

No, because.

[Asante]

Okay. There was no need for.

[Francesca]

Everything had to be so quick. Yeah.

[Asante]

Yeah. Well, no need.

[Francesca]

So. And they had to do the burial.

[Dustin Ross]

And so we would be back in the ground. We would have exhumed that body.

[Francesca]

But apparently because of their custom, they just.

[Asante]

Yeah, I already knew that.

[Francesca]

Yeah. That shit's serious. They're just like. It just. And the cousin even said like, considering the announcement of it having to now be a crime scene. She said at the burial, she looked at the rabbi and was like, should we be burying her? Like.

[Asante]

Right.

[Francesca]

And he told her, we got to do it if we're here. Like, this is the process. Yeah.

[Asante]

Like, we have to make sure she rests. Well, on the other side, I respect everybody's.

[Francesca]

And she said. And she said that the body, right, has to be prepared in a very specific way in Jewish custom. Right. For the burial. So she said there's, like, usually a group of women at the. That's their job. Like, they help prepare the community. They help prepare the bodies in the community. And she said that even the women, when they were preparing Ellen's body were like, hell, no, this ain't. Yeah, they were alarmed. And that kind of went through the community where people were like, this was absolutely not a suicide. It's not possible.

[Asante]

It don't sound like no damn. Like nothing about this sounds.

[Francesca]

So people were angered because they were like, why did the police allow that to be the root. So immediately, why did his uncle come in to take her electronics when he has no. No right to do that? And why was the crime scene clean? Like, so much was just not making sense. But they were grateful that at least the medical examiner did the right thing and ruled it a homicide, even if it was a little late to do so. But at least now that opened it up for an investigation, right? So they're, like, calling the police, trying to get the. The. The cameras, surveillance, the. Oh, no, they called the building actually, like, hey, we need access to the surveillance. We're trying to put this case together. The building is like, we don't have. Oh, we don't have that footage.

[Asante]

Doesn't stay past a certain time or some shit.

[Francesca]

They're like, what do you mean? This was like a huge case. Like, there's no way you guys didn't keep that from that day. They were like, we don't have it. So the. They're like, okay, well, we're going to get an affidavit. Can you get the cop that came in to say on record that there was no surveillance? And I guess no cop wanted to be the one to say that bullshit on record. And suddenly the tape appeared.

[Dustin Ross]

They were like, all these dirtiest fucking people in the world.

[Asante]

This is crazy.

[Dustin Ross]

Somebody who paid the who.

[Francesca]

So the family's trying to get the district attorney involved, attorneys general, the police, because they're like, something is. Is suspicious. This feels like a conspiracy at this point, and they're just being iced out. No one is responding. No one wants to help. They're taking along and the family's confused. And there's a part where her parents were like, we grew up believing in the police, Right. Like, we grew up believing that they're going to do their job, they're trustworthy, they're looking out for our community. So they were just not understanding that this could even be a possibility. Right. Because it's like, what the fuck is happening if she was killed by her partner? Fucking handle the case. Why is it that it's not being handled? But remember, his uncle was a prominent attorney, so there's clearly some connections happening there. And as they're trying and trying to get, you know, through the police and the medical examiners, nothing's happening. And then another blow happens. The medical examiner, a couple days later.

[Dustin Ross]

Changes his mind and turns it back into a suicide.

[Francesca]

Yep.

[Asante]

What?

[Dustin Ross]

So who?

[Asante]

Who? Wait, wait, hold on.

[Dustin Ross]

Somebody tapped his shoulder.

[Francesca]

That part. And says that he was wrong, that once he was given more information, as he put it, in his professional opinion, he had to change it.

[Dustin Ross]

What was he given.

[Francesca]

About the fact that Sam was escorted? Because apparently this is information he was given. Sam was escorted upstairs to the door, so there's no way he could have done that with the latch. They felt like that was evidence. They said that there was no defensive wounds in her hands, like if she didn't fight back. And the fact that the door was closed, and then the searches of how to die quickly, how to die painlessly, the fact she had been spiraling, her medical issues, fact she was seeing a psychiatrist. They said everything pointed to the fact that she did this to herself.

[Asante]

That was what this final medical examiner said, right?

[Francesca]

The same. This is the same one that changed his determination.

[Asante]

So is this same medical examiner, the one that was. So they were there the first time, they changed it and then they came back later and she changed it again.

[Francesca]

Right. He said that after getting more information. So at this point, they're like, okay, we need to do some depositions because.

[Asante]

Shit'S getting crazy because you are like every games now.

[Francesca]

And then he admitted in the deposition it wasn't actually him, though. It was the chief medical examiner. The act. And you know what's crazy? The medical examiner is a black man. That shit blew me. But anyway, his chief medical examiner in the deposition admitted that there was a meeting held.

[Dustin Ross]

A meeting by. Of who?

[Francesca]

He didn't say with who and then, but he said there was a meeting with people having to do with the case. He did admit it was policemen, and it was a collective of like, investigators, policemen. I forget who else he mentioned, but he said that they brought him more information that caused him to change it. So the lawyer was like, what Meeting. Like, who has meetings like this that are off the record? Because he said, where are the meeting notes? Oh, I didn't take any. So an important meeting about a serious case like this, that caused you to change your determination? You have no notes. Notes documented. Does that make sense to you? Why didn't you document this meeting? And he just kept saying, I didn't take any notes. Literally wouldn't answer the question.

[Asante]

So there was a meeting that happened, and the meeting was.

[Francesca]

They were.

[Asante]

Changed that shit, right? Like, period. What are we doing? Oh, my God.

[Francesca]

And I know he was pissed because it was the chief medical examiner that brought up the meeting, because he didn't say anything about the meeting. He just said the information he got, but he never mentioned. And, man, all these men came to my motherfucking house, said, if I don't change this shit. And they had one of the policemen that was on the case initially, and they asked him, did you bring him information in a meeting? You know, that caused him to change the determination. He said, I don't recall y' all when I tell you this case, like, unbelievable.

[Dustin Ross]

But actually, in today's political climate, it's.

[Francesca]

Not shocking at all, right?

[Dustin Ross]

But we should be shocked, which is the point. This is shocking information.

[Francesca]

And that's why I said in the beginning, I was shocked, but I wasn't shocked. But I was shocked. You know what I mean? And then at this point, they're like, the family's like, we don't know what is happening. But this is crazy that y' all are gonna sit here and say that this was a suicide when they're. And stab wounds to her back. Like, why isn't anyone seeing what we're.

[Dustin Ross]

Seeing, smiling in your face?

[Francesca]

So what they have to do, they get a PI to help them figure out what is going on. And the PI had been in the police force for 25 years. So he said, I know the shit that be going down politically. All the red tape, perfect PI to get. He was like, this is absolutely a conspiracy, but we're trying to figure out why, right? And so he's on the case now. He ends up reaching out to the media. This ends up becoming a media storm because they get some journalists involved that turn it into a, you know, an expose about the government and the police and conspiracies. And they put out the story. Finally, it makes, like, the front cover of the Philadelphia Inquirer. Once that happens, you know what happens next? The Internet got a hold of the story. Y' all already know it's on tick tock YouTube podcast. They said that this helped so much because people became obsessive with what was happening and the fact that nobody was doing anything about it. They were trying to find out new details. They even had a co worker on the documentary, which I thought was interesting. One of Sam's co workers. Like, I'm talking about a current co worker, like. Like, right now, who said that at the time when all this shit was coming out, it was weird because Sam was, like, real calm about it, like, wasn't tripping, and everyone at work was looking at him like, what the fuck is going on? People scared of work around him, be around him, and he's just chilling. Mind you, this man is married now with kids, has completely put all of this behind him. And there was a text that irked me so much because apparently the cousin Debbie and him would still, like, check in on each other sometimes I thought was a little interesting. She said that he told her, you know, it breaks my heart that, like, I'm gonna, like, find someone and be happy at some point. Like, I'm gonna be fine, but, like, her mom will never be able to fill that void. And that, like, kind of sucks.

[Dustin Ross]

So he's so. That's sinister.

[Francesca]

I mean. And then he told her she needs to accept what happened and stop trying to make it something else just because she's not, like, accepting the fact that her daughter did this to herself. And the friends and co workers even said that when they had called Sam when they first got the news, he kept reiterating, she did this to herself. And they always thought that that was such a weird thing to say, because if we're figuring out what happened, you know, how are you so quick to determine that? And even in the 911 call, 911, when he told her she stabbed herself is what. Is what the words that he said. Oh, my God, she stabbed herself. When he, quote, unquote, finally saw the knife when the lady was trying to walk him through the CPR process.

[Dustin Ross]

Based on what you shared with me, I felt like he killed the shit out of her. I felt like he murdered her. And I felt like he didn't do it. He had it done. He knows what the fuck happened.

[Francesca]

And when they had a roundtable of, like. Like, forensic investigators, forensic psychologists, medical examiners, which I thought was a really interesting roundtable. They even had, like, a former assistant attorney general or, excuse me, district attorney, sorry, and they were saying, right, they were saying that when people think of strangulation, they assume that you're always gonna have the marks, you know, and some. And they don't always show up. Up. And that a lot of, like, why she didn't hemorrhage in certain ways that it could be viewed or that she didn't have defensive wounds in her hands, like she didn't fight, was because he could have strangled her maybe first. And then those are posthumous stabbings to make it seem like something else.

[Dustin Ross]

How can they find a middle ground with the faith leaders in the Jewish community and the opportunity to perform an autopsy of her body. I think that that's the word that we need to be. That we need to be.

[Francesca]

But here's the thing. So because of this article that went out, they end up working with this, like, amazing attorney. I believe his name was Pedraza. He saw the article and he was like, what the fuck is going on? You know, the dad had reached out to him. He was like, yeah, I just read about your daughter's case. I am absolutely on board. He ends up filing a lawsuit. Right. Against the city. Because he's like, y' all are not even giving her a due process. Like, she's, you know, this was terribly run from top to bottom. And then she's being stalled out. You know, medical examiner talking about meetings and shit. Like, he's like, what is happening? So when he got involved, he ended up suing the city. And they did, they won. But it was a settlement, which I feel not any action. And part of the settlement, he said, was that he said to them, aside from the money, they also had to agree to. To file an autopsy and have the medical examiner re. Examine the files properly as a neutral body. You know, they didn't do it. They didn't do it. They've been waiting, mind you, this. This lawsuit was in February of this year. So it's like 14 years of this runaround. This family just not getting answers. 14 years. And I saw in the end credits of the documentary, it says that the judge was pissed because he's like, you're not even allowing the investigation to be done properly.

[Asante]

Yeah.

[Francesca]

With everyone stalling out, I'm actually. I wrote down what his exact words he said at the 2025 hearing, which actually was on September 3rd. Right. Because they had.

[Dustin Ross]

So this is recent circled back.

[Francesca]

Yeah. The judge lambasted the city of Philadelphia, stating justice delayed is justice denied due to the lack of an expeditious reexamination of Ellen Greenberg's case, which was what they promised as part of the settlement. Settlement. So because of that, the agreement at that case on September Third was that the medical examiner will present the conclusions of her reexamination. Mind you, this is another medical examiner to the judge on October 14th of 2025. So I went online and I was like, okay, we're past that date. That means that they have re examined, have a new determination. When I checked, she said that this was a suicide.

[Asante]

Okay, y', all.

[Francesca]

I just.

[Asante]

See, I was ready to almost defend her, but no, okay, I'm just gonna say okay, because I can't even defend this. And I'm not going to.

[Francesca]

And I won't when I tell you my brain was like this. The fact that they can do this is like, you've. It's been on the news. Lawsuits filed, exposes in the Philadelphia Inquirer. I mean, nothing has shifted. And then they had the nerve. So the attorney general at the time of the case was Josh Shapiro, who is now the governor. And he was even recently asked about his time with the case and his thoughts on it now. And he doubled down on the news at a press conference saying that he himself looked through the files and that the family just doesn't want to face the reality that this was self inflicted and that all the evidence points to that.

[Dustin Ross]

Well, they must have reverse vision because it's all pointing at Sam, too. Me, I don't understand how they can see it pointing somewhere else. Unless there was another motivation for them to have that response. Like threatening, like intimidation, like.

[Francesca]

But my thing is who the is this family? That's what it makes you wonder. Who is this family that they have that much power?

[Asante]

The scene of the crime told them.

[Francesca]

What it was because that's where all of this starts. Cleanup before homicide investigators are crime scenes.

[Dustin Ross]

I've never even heard of crime scene cleanup.

[Francesca]

And even seeing them in the doc, obviously it was a reenactment, but it was like, what men in hazmat suits?

[Asante]

Like, I've heard of that. I've heard of it. You know, I haven't had to experience it. Don't want to see it, you know, like. But that's one of those things. Just because Sam said that, like y' all supposed to. That's. Y' all take those as notes, not facts. I mean, open and shut case. All right, got boys, we're out of here. Like, what y'.

[Francesca]

All.

[Asante]

I wanna. I wanna say that it is Sam, but unfortunately, just that one. That. That thing. There's no way to even investigate this to find out if it actually is Sam.

[Francesca]

It got cleaned up. I mean, but my thing is, why did his. What Was his uncle, the attorney. What? Why wasn't he questioned on why he came the take her electronics. That's why I know that this shit is so deep. Because no one in the doc even mentioned him being questioned about that. All they said was that when the police contacted him, because, you know, the medical examiner had switched it to homicide, then they told him, yo, we need that. And he gave it to them. And that's the. The extent of that part of it.

[Dustin Ross]

And I'm cooperated.

[Francesca]

Yeah, he cooperated and gave them in. And then like I mentioned later on in the conversation, suddenly her searches, you know what I mean, were changed. A search that initially had not been noted anywhere. So it just was like, I don't know, man.

[Asante]

It's just. It's more. It's too much corruption. Like, because everyone's trying to say, oh, they just. The family doesn't want to come to terms with what happened. Have y' all said how this is a possibility? Because this doesn't even sound.

[Francesca]

No investigation.

[Asante]

Oh, yeah, that's why I asked, you know, did they run a toxicology report? Did anyone at some point say, like, all right, let's test her blood because she was on med. So if it was a suicide, let's confirm that, or, you know, let's see if there was something else in her system that could have made her do this crazy self inflict bullshit.

[Francesca]

And the other thing, too, when. When the medical examiner, when they were looking through the files, that roundtable that I told you I had been discussing, they said that one thing that was not mentioned was that Ellen's body had bruising all over in various stages of healing, which means that she had been. And then they tried to say, oh, well, maybe the meds made her more susceptible to bruising, or maybe she had a strenuous work, like her workouts were strenuous. I. I don't know.

[Dustin Ross]

She's been getting beat up.

[Asante]

Yeah.

[Francesca]

And her mom said that it made her so sad when she found that out about the various stages of healing and all the bruising. They showed pictures you saw, it was like all over her legs and her body. And she said that that made her so sad because that explains so much about that time I mentioned where they said her light just dimmed.

[Asante]

Yeah.

[Francesca]

And not wearing the ring. And even her best friend said that one weird thing was like, she didn't want to disturb, discuss the wedding planning. Like, she's like, that's like this was her thing. Now suddenly you don't want to discuss.

[Asante]

Because she didn't want to be with him, but he probably already, like, mentally manipulated her after beating.

[Francesca]

She said she just shut down so much about discussing anything about that. And that was something that now, in hindsight, with what their family is realizing, they're like. And even the text messages, which is kind of creepy because the text messages he had sent her while he was in the hallway, which I feel now he was just trying to create a trail of like, oh, I'm. I'm angry. She's not letting me in. But even the text messages were creepy because he's like, what the fuck? He's like, you. You have no idea. What does that mean? You have no idea. If my partner locks me out this house, What. Why would I text him? You have no idea. What does that mean?

[Dustin Ross]

Yeah, this odd. Oh, man. And this Sam guy has ties, obviously, or whoever did this has ties that run very deep in the political system and in the system. And it looks like they are blocking any attempts to kind of seek clarity or attain clarity on this case.

[Francesca]

Even with prominent attorneys, even with the news media writing, exposing. Like, that's the part that shocked me. It's like nothing, Nothing. Nothing that was done has shifted this.

[Dustin Ross]

I think, ultimately, because while those elements exist now, the action that it would take to get to the answers that we need rely upon one person. And so I actually just had a political conversation kind of like this a couple days ago about someone saying, oh, well, this group of people are doing it this way. And it's not this group of people. There's a person in a position that's saying yes or no to this or that. And I think that in this case, that's applicable as well. There are people that they're able to. Someone is appearing to be able to target, to identify and target with whatever kind of information or, you know, whatever the fuck they have that is influential enough to get them to make a choice. Yeah, I would be scared as fuck if I lived in that town personally.

[Francesca]

And let me tell you, even when the lawyer had the depositions with the medical examiner's team, the neuropathologist that was telling them about how she felt, felt that there was a possibility that some of the stab wounds in the back were done after she was deceased. I wish y'. All. If y' all watch it, she looks so scared. Admitting that, like, her face, she looked like she was putting her life on the line. Like she kept licking, like, biting her mouth. And I feel bad.

[Asante]

I gotta hurry up and get this lie out.

[Francesca]

I could. I almost feel like she. I Almost feel like she felt like I'm involved in this conspiracy. Allegedly, obviously.

[Asante]

Right?

[Francesca]

But, like, the part of her in that moment that was like, you can't do this. You know what I mean? Like, you can't do this.

[Asante]

Or anything.

[Francesca]

That's what's so scary about it. Even the black dang medical examiner who was like, I didn't take notes. I didn't take notes, like, how he was stonewalling in that moment. I was looking at his face, trying to, like, see through what he's probably dealing with on the back end, you know what I mean? Like. Like, who knows what the fuck they told him. Who kill your family? We don't know. And it's just so twisted. And he's just sitting there stonewalling. And I did. I forgot to mention, too, before the. The lawyer had filed that lawsuit against the city, the civil lawsuit, he reached out to that black medical examiner. His name is Marlon Osborne. And he told him, we'll do a deal with. With you before we go to trial. We'll do a deal. Yeah. Because he said he wanted him to admit that this shit was a conspiracy. So he said, if you are willing to change it to what you know it is, we will settle out with you so you don't have to be a part of this civil lawsuit. And he agreed. So that said everything. Me, he told him, all right, I'll do it. Hello. What did that tell everyone? He knew this was a conspiracy, and in that moment, he didn't want to be a part of that lawsuit against the city because he knew he was wrong. And he settled out and agreed.

[Dustin Ross]

Damn.

[Francesca]

That it wasn't the right determination. But even with him settling out and agreeing and being willing to change it for what he knew was right, we still have gotten nowhere even with that.

[Asante]

Y', all, this is insane.

[Dustin Ross]

And the thing about it is we have absolutely gotten somewhere. Right. Because these actions represent something they say a lot. You're able to deduce and determine.

[Francesca]

Right.

[Dustin Ross]

What. What feels like factual information based on these actions and what people are not saying. Right. The problem is that those things are not legitimate. Those conclusions are not legitimate determinations. Right. And so we can't use them as fact.

[Francesca]

Fact.

[Dustin Ross]

And that's a really up place to be in when you know what something is and they're telling you it's something else.

[Francesca]

Yeah.

[Dustin Ross]

You're powerless at that point, and somebody's life is on the line. This is. This is. This is bad.

[Francesca]

And the. The former assistant DA said that when he had got called in by the. The PI to kind of look into the case. He was like, I couldn't even find the filing. The file.

[Dustin Ross]

He said it was Epstein's.

[Francesca]

He said that he found it. Y' all listen to this. He said that he became fixated on trying to find it. He found it in a closet where the Christmas decorations are kept. Yes.

[Asante]

What?

[Dustin Ross]

Forgive me. Because nothing about it is funny.

[Francesca]

No, but it was.

[Dustin Ross]

The nature of it is funny. So it shakes you up.

[Asante]

Up.

[Francesca]

So he said he found it in a random filing cabinet in a random closet where Christmas decorations for the officer.

[Dustin Ross]

Kept next to Santa.

[Francesca]

Like, y', all, this was probably one of the craziest. And I'm not gonna hold you a lot of the shot. More shocking part is that all of these people involved are white. All of them are Jew. Like, it's like they're all Jewish. It's like, what? What?

[Dustin Ross]

People go to great lengths to cover things up, man. I just. At what point does humanity enter the conversation? Right?

[Francesca]

That's the part that's scary, because clearly there is none. To be able to go this far, to be sitting shiver with the family.

[Dustin Ross]

It's just like those. You just made me laugh. You just made me laugh. Because he's sitting.

[Asante]

Okay.

[Francesca]

That's so dark, bro. People different.

[Dustin Ross]

I can't even give my comment out anymore. Fran, you are crazy. Yes. This is wrong. And God bless that young woman's life and her family, because what a horrible position they're in. What a horrible position.

[Asante]

So. So many prayers for her family. And it really sucks, because Ellen, I've been that girl, you know, just looking for something, want something so bad, but nobody deserves any of what has happened to Ellen and to the people involved in what actually happened to Ellen. I hope that they get theirs.

[Francesca]

Yeah, man. And that, to me, was the saddest part, because we don't always. They don't always get theirs. At least not in, I'm sure, energetically, spiritually, and in other words, bunch of other ways they're going to get theirs. But in this reality, it's hard. It's a hard pill to swallow at the amount of people who don't. Who seemingly don't get theirs. And that's crazy to me. This was such a crazy case, especially when they were talking about the stab wounds in the back and the spinal cord. And I was like, it. You know, you sit there like, is anyone? Is anyone? And. And Josh Shapiro, the governor, getting in a press conference saying all the evidence points to suicide. It's like, are y' all crazy? And I will say this. You know, Josh Shapiro, the governor's house was just burned down. Someone do Molotov. I'm not saying this is connected, but I'm saying you never know what people got going on.

[Dustin Ross]

Yeah.

[Francesca]

Molotov cocktails were just thrown into his house recently and it was burned down. I'm telling you, man, God bless her.

[Dustin Ross]

Soul, God bless her family, God bless her and just. Damn, man. At what point do you give a fuck about human life? Scary people don't care. Look at those quote unquote young Republicans who were just caught in that filthy ass, disgusting ass group chat. The group chat, mind you, these people that they're young and that. The Vice president. And then it's saying, our boys in a group chat. Young boys in a group chat. They're 29, they're 31, they're 32, they're 28. Who have influence. People are full of, full of influence and, and wielding power in positions that they hold.

[Francesca]

Right?

[Dustin Ross]

Yeah. And they're talking about wanting to burn people up in gas chambers, wanting to. To kill people, all that stuff. So these motherfuckers literally, you know, we grew up in a time where we read about certain shit in the history books we're witnessing, and we read about people who just were savages and murderers in that way simply because of race. We're living in a time where we walk in these same streets, right amongst these.

[Francesca]

Yeah.

[Dustin Ross]

Going in the house, getting on the Internet, going on the dark. Yeah, yeah, we walking right and living right amongst them. And that's a very scary, bone chilling thought.

[Francesca]

And the fact that these could be your doctors, these.

[Dustin Ross]

Oh my God, teachers of your children.

[Francesca]

These, like, that's the part that police.

[Dustin Ross]

Judges, people who, who. You know what I'm saying? Like. And there's also been evidence of efforts, like organized efforts with where these, these white Christian nationalists, white supremacist groups have been saying, okay, we need to infiltrate these systems in these ways. We need to be teachers in these school systems. We need to be. And putting themselves in that position, it's not coincidental that we're seeing teachers telling kids, happy birthday, you look like you live in a zoo. And we're going to teach these kids about segregation through examples of writing. Colors only and whites only on the fountain. They doing this shit right now. Now it playing in our faces and shit. So, you know, just do what you can, how you can. That's all. That's the only thing we can say. And like I said, God bless that girl. I wish we could have Been funnier and crack more jokes this week. But this is so up. Like, we can't. We are.

[Francesca]

But it just also says so much about the world. Right. And that's the part that there's so many layers to this. But if you're interested in watching this, like I said, it's called death in apartment 603 what happened to Ellen Greenberg. And it's a three part investigative docu series. Docu series. Currently.

[Dustin Ross]

It's a docu seriously.

[Francesca]

You hear me?

[Asante]

It is.

[Dustin Ross]

It's a docu seriously. That's what. That should be the name of your episode. This is a docu seriously. Because that's how I feel, you know.

[Francesca]

Currently playing on Hulu, if you want to check it out for yourself. And obviously there's a lot of. A lot of YouTube videos and YouTubes. And once you kind of fallen, of course, into the discords and people really trying to find some details out, which I do love about the Internet is as scary as the Internet can get with these cases because they be making up and pointing fingers at the wrong people responsibly. They have actually helped solve some shit. So.

[Dustin Ross]

Yeah. Like when they caught that lady on that plane when she was on her way to Africa, was it. Remember? Yeah.

[Francesca]

Life.

[Dustin Ross]

Just emotionally, no. But this was cool. You did a great job, obviously. Amazing friend narrating this friend. And you know, damn. We grew up in a different time. We grew up when people was trying to unify or at least show them. We grew up when we were the we are the world came out. You know what I'm saying? So I don't know what this is about. We are the truth.

[Francesca]

Crazy, y'. All.

[Dustin Ross]

I don't know what this is about.

[Francesca]

And it's the. It's the gaslighting, right. That's just scary. Like these people on the news, straight face, and then you don't see any. Is it just me? But when you know someone's lying about something serious like this, you be trying to read their face so deeply like, yo, are you human? You really feel no remorse in saying this? I kept trying to read everyone's face as they were lying through things. And I just was like, it's scary because a lot of people looked fine with what they were saying.

[Dustin Ross]

We might not know who stabbed her in her back, but we know who stabbed that family in theirs. And it was that commissioner, the medical examiner, all these people who switched and.

[Francesca]

Went on record, the district attorney, the police, the medical examiner's team, even the judges were trying their best to be like, yo, what did he say? Justice is being denied. Justice delayed. Is justice denied. Like.

[Dustin Ross]

But yes, judges know they'd be talking like that. You ever read some of them. Them dissents or whatever from, like the Supreme Court justices? And every time, because Sotomayor, her and. And Jackson said katanj. They've been going the off. And then since they've been writing since this. It's not funny, but it is. You know what I'm saying?

[Asante]

Like, the.

[Dustin Ross]

They've been.

[Francesca]

I can't even imagine what they be.

[Dustin Ross]

Going through the language. And it's. It's always sonnets and like that. Like, justice be like, if y' all quit writing in tattoos.

[Francesca]

God damn historical poetry.

[Dustin Ross]

Yeah, but bless that girl.

[Francesca]

Bless their family. And I'm sad for their parents because they're getting older. This is 14 years. And they said that they were hoping.

[Dustin Ross]

These people don't give a fuck.

[Francesca]

Finalized before they pass on.

[Dustin Ross]

Look how they did them black Wall street survivors. I think the last living one just. I'm not gonna say, but I believe I read that they just passed away. Look how they did them black Tulsa survivors that have been been in court in litigation up until today. And think about when that shit went down, right?

[Francesca]

And that PI Motherfuckers is dirty. That was with the police force for 25 years. He told the family, this is gonna take a long time. He was like, y' all have no idea of the politics of Philadelphia? No idea. And you could tell he didn't wanna say, but he was saying.

[Dustin Ross]

So all I can hear is that songstream. He's a Philadelphia.

[Francesca]

On that.

[Dustin Ross]

Here's that song.

[Francesca]

That's it for this week's True Crime Crime Zone episode.

[Dustin Ross]

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[Asante]

Welcome back to listen to YOUR heart.

[Dustin Ross]

I'm Jerry.

[Asante]

And I'm Jerry's heart.

[Dustin Ross]

Today's topic, Repatha Evolokimab heart.

[Francesca]

Why'd you pick this one?

[Dustin Ross]

Well, Jerry, for people who have had.

[Asante]

A heart attack like us, diet and.

[Dustin Ross]

Exercise might not be enough to lower the risk of another one.

[Asante]

Okay.

[Dustin Ross]

To help know if we're at risk, we should be getting our LDL C.

[Asante]

Our bad cholesterol checked and talking to our doctor.

[Dustin Ross]

I'm listening to and if it's still too high, Repatha can be added to.

[Asante]

A statin to lower our LDL C.

[Dustin Ross]

And our heart attack risk.

[Asante]

Hmm. Guess it's time to ask about Repatha. Do not take Repatha if you are allergic to it. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get medical help right away if you have trouble breathing or swallowing, swelling of the face, lips, tongue, throat or arms. Common side effects include runny nose, sore throat, common cold symptoms, flu or flu like symptoms, back pain, high blood sugar and redness, pain or bruising at the injection site.

[Francesca]

Listen to your heart, ask your doctor about Repatha.

[Dustin Ross]

Learn [e-mail] or call 1-844-repatha hey, Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile.

[Asante]

Now I don't know if you've heard.

[Dustin Ross]

But Mint's Premium Wireless is $15 a month. But I'd like to offer one other perk. We have no stores.

[Asante]

That means means no small talk.

[Dustin Ross]

Crazy weather we're having.

[Asante]

No it's not. It's just weather. It is an introvert's dream.

[Dustin Ross]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Francesca]

Of 45 for 3 month plan, 15.

[Asante]

Per month equivalent required. New customer offer first 3 months only, then full price plan options Available, taxes and fees extra. Cmintmobile.com.

[Francesca]

This Week in wellness. I actually wanted to use my wellness segment to highlight an organization that I think is amazing. And it's run. It's founded and run by Kenesha Dennis, who is an executive that I worked with when she worked with Facebook, Elevate. Remember, I had those two incredible meta campaigns. I believe this was in 2023. I adored her because she really went to bat for me, not only with the amount of money they paid me out, which was. Was amazing, but also the creative, which is really hard. When you have certain campaigns, they really try to get in the way of your vision. And she really was like, no, I picked Fran for a reason. I trust her vision, and I'm gonna let her do exactly what she sees. Like, when I tell you she let me do exactly what I saw for it, I got no pushback from her, and I never experienced that, you know.

[Dustin Ross]

With a brand in that capacity, you know, that that is a. That having that takeaway is, number one, extremely rare. And number two, unbelievable free, unbelievably freeing. As a creative soul, Absolutely kudos to her for that alone.

[Francesca]

Yeah. You don't have to adjust your vision in any ways because sometimes it's annoying because they want to change things. That is, like, true to you. And so you're just like. You almost don't want to do it. Yeah. Especially with this amount of money that the campaigns were worth. I was just so grateful to her and her being a black woman, you know, like, it just was so fire all around.

[Asante]

Say her name one more time.

[Francesca]

Look, say Kenesha Dennis.

[Dustin Ross]

You don't give it up for Kenesha Dennis one time for we're give it.

[Francesca]

Up for you because you really were such a. You really were such a pleasure. And I was happy when she came back around the second time because we really did have such a good time the first time. So I was happy that she thought of me again. But she emailed me recently. She said, hey, friend. Hey. I hope you at full ease and rest on this Sunday. She said, it's been a minute since our Facebook elevate days. I had the joy of working with you on those campaigns, and I'll never forget the energy, intention, and joy that you brought to the space. You've always led with light, and it's been beautiful to watch the friend zone continue to grow as a home for truth, healing, and culture. I love that. She said, I'm reaching out with so much love to share something close to my heart and to recommend Black Girls can and our upcoming Pathway to Power wellness tour. She said. This year the nonprofit I founded, it's called Black Girls Can, Inc. Is celebrating 10 years of service. So she founded this 10 years ago. It began after my time as a substitute teacher where I met so many brilliant Black girls with big dreams but limited exposure. What started as me inviting my friends in medicine, media and tech to host Day in the Life visits at their workplace has since grown into a full fledged movement.

[Dustin Ross]

Wow.

[Francesca]

Today isn't this amazing? Today we offer free enrichment programs to middle school, high school and college aged Black girls and women rooted in stem. Actually steam, not stem because there's the added a. Yeah, that's attitude.

[Dustin Ross]

They teach them how to do this.

[Francesca]

Attitude, STEAM, entrepreneurship and civic engagement. We've served over 10,000 students in New York City and D.C. with love and support from the NYC Public Schools, NARS, Facebook, Microsoft and more. While we're going on tour and not hosting a gala, she says to mark this 10 year milestone, we could have done a gala, but honestly we wanted to put our energy where it's needed most and that's inside the schools with our girls. And I love that because people love a gala. This fall we're launching the Pathway to Power tour, which is a 10 city in school wellness experience where we take over school gyms for three hours of healing, sisterhood and steam. We kick off in NYC this October and close out in LA by March 2020. We're teaming up with folks like the National Society of black engineers, okay, divine9orgs and other incredible collaborators to bring it to life. We grounded this tour in research from the Yale School of medicine and the CDC, which revealed that suicide among black youth has increased 144% since 2007. 140% black girls are more likely to attempt suicide but less likely to succeed, which means they're often overlooked. And this is a silent epidemic that isn't getting enough attention. This tour is our love letter and our wellness response to say you are seen, you are valued and you matter. I say this often and I mean it. Black Girls can saved my life. It gave me purpose, healing and community when I needed something to believe in. So even beyond supporting us, I'd love for the Friend Zone family to be reminded to check in more deeply with their nieces, their nephews, daughters, sons, little cousins and just young persons in their community to just slow down, unplug and get intentional in connecting much deeper. That kind of presence can shift everything. And then she wrote, here's how the Friend Zone Community can help us. Educators or school leaders who want this programming in their schools can connect with us and bring this to their school by signing [e-mail] Tor don't worry, all these links will be in the description box if you're interested in she said you can offer monetary or in kind support which would be swag bag items. Right. For the teen girls. Of course, any dollar amount will help to make all 10 tour stops happen. We can get to a few cities on our own, but are relying on the help of the community and partners to get us to all 10 cities and to ultimately sustain and be able to expand this world. Co create with us, right, by donating, volunteering or offering your gifts and talents as facilitators and even guest speakers at a school during a tour stop. She wrote, your community is so rich in love and talent and brilliance, even one moment of amplification can ripple into something that saves lives and shifts futures. You are a great writer, Kenesha.

[Dustin Ross]

I mean, laid this out for real.

[Francesca]

Email is so fab. She said, I'm grateful for the work you already do and would be honored to have the support of the friendzone community for this generation of black girls and the ones rising behind them.

[Dustin Ross]

Yes, Lord.

[Francesca]

And then she sent us the tour information webpage if you'd like to check it out, is blackgirlscaninc.org TOR that's where folks can learn more about the tour, can donate, sign up to volunteer, request to speak, facilitate a workshop, or even complete a form to recommend a school as a tour stop. And like I said, I'll make sure to have all those links in the description box for easier access. She said, folks can feel free to email me or our manager of programs to partner as well. And if you want to check out their Instagram, it's black girl. Girls can. That's the handle. I'll put her email and her partner's emails in the description box as well. Kenesha, this is amazing work.

[Dustin Ross]

Yes.

[Francesca]

I hope that is highlighting it can create the ripple that you need. And we'll definitely talk off the record to see how else we can be of support with this tour.

[Dustin Ross]

She should come on the show. She needs to come on the show and talk about this. Yeah.

[Asante]

Yeah.

[Francesca]

This is amazing. When I read this, I was like, okay, I have to highlight this immediately. Especially, you know, with whatever. I mean, come on, Kenesha. Kenesha Dennis, you are doing amazing work. And you know what's the coolest part? I love when like A fab executive is still doing the work for the community because it's rare to find executives that are at that intersection. You know what I mean? So shout out to you. Like I said, all links will be down in the description box. This is for the Black Girls Can Inc. Pathway to Power wellness tour.

[Dustin Ross]

Love. Everything about it, right?

[Francesca]

Everything about it. That's it for this week in wellness.

[Asante]

All right, just a few quick tidbits here for the Music man segment. I just want to quickly highlight a few artists. There are artists that have been here, and per last week's news, I just feel like we just need to celebrate the people that are here. One of the artists I wanted to talk about very quickly is Chris Brown. He dropped a new remix. First of all, he has the song. It depends. It's been viral featuring Bryson Tiller. They've been doing the challenge. The song is. It's a hit. It goes well, right. When the hits hit. People like to drop remixes, and I love that Chris Brown is still a remix dropper. Usher TikTok is so funny to me. I'm sorry.

[Dustin Ross]

And the fact that I'm a person who don't do it, it makes it funny when I. When people. It's just funny. But go ahead.

[Asante]

It really is. Well, Chris Brown has teamed up with Usher yet again because they've made plenty of music before. They had the. He was on the New Flame remix. They've done me. They've done records together, so this is nothing new for them. But he's back with. Or Usher is back on Breezy's new song, and that's dope. I wanted to make sure I shout out that out because remix is still happening. Happen. And that is fun. T Pain. Speaking of things still happening, T Pain is back. T Pain has been around. T Pain has been around. He's still been performing the old hits, but he's back with some new. New music. He always drops some new records here and there. Because I'm still with that track with Kalani. He dropped where she. Where it was like the sample of his song, but it was, like, remade. And I thought that was.

[Francesca]

I heard him in so long. That's crazy.

[Asante]

Well, he's back. He's got a new song and a new video. The song is called New Husband. Hold on. Club Husband.

[Francesca]

New what?

[Asante]

Hold on. I want to make sure I had it right because I saw it on YouTube. Yep. It's club Husband. Yep.

[Francesca]

You have club husbands?

[Dustin Ross]

Yeah.

[Francesca]

So that's the thing. Like work husband, Club husband.

[Dustin Ross]

Yeah. I mean, you have. You Know?

[Francesca]

Yes, I had train station husband.

[Dustin Ross]

Those are the best.

[Francesca]

That when y' all have the same schedules, y' all see each other every morning, but y' all just stare and never actually talk.

[Dustin Ross]

And you don't smile for months.

[Asante]

Remember bus husband?

[Dustin Ross]

The bus driver.

[Francesca]

Yes.

[Dustin Ross]

And the deli. I told you I wanted my deli contestant.

[Francesca]

Remember deli husband too.

[Asante]

Barbara husband.

[Francesca]

Deli husbands were the best because they would give you, like little candy and free shit with your sandwich and shit.

[Asante]

Like Barbara.

[Dustin Ross]

The club ones are cool too. Cause y' all can kiss and stuff.

[Francesca]

Oh, I remember those days.

[Asante]

Making out.

[Francesca]

People still make out at the club.

[Asante]

Yeah.

[Francesca]

It just seemed like a different time.

[Dustin Ross]

I was about to tell too much of my business. But yes, people doing a little bit everything.

[Francesca]

Because you know what? You know what feels weird to me now? Like, I wouldn't want someone to, like, do a story time on TikTok. You feel me, right?

[Dustin Ross]

Me either. And that's why I be trying to help myself. Myself. But like, one time, I don't. I don't want to bring no name.

[Asante]

It look like you was positioning yourself for a story time too.

[Francesca]

You moved in.

[Dustin Ross]

You saw one of my friends that. One of my friends saw me have a moment like that at a. I had hosted a party a couple times recently and I. One of my friends seen me have a moment like that and they were cracking up and they was. And if I told you who it was, it would be even funnier. So I'm. I'mma text it to y' all right now, but go on.

[Francesca]

Wait, who it was that saw you.

[Dustin Ross]

Or who it was that. No, no, we were not.

[Asante]

Oh. Oh, no.

[Dustin Ross]

This is who witnessed me having the moment I want.

[Francesca]

I feel like I know who it is.

[Dustin Ross]

Yeah. And it was so funny. Cuz they were like, you are.

[Francesca]

So anyway, so club husband, you said Asante.

[Asante]

Yes.

[Francesca]

Okay, I get it.

[Asante]

T. Pain has been in the industry for 20 years. He has a TP.

[Francesca]

Sorry.

[Dustin Ross]

So you see why it was funny, right? So picture them saying that to me like, your ass is crazy. They was cracking up.

[Francesca]

Okay.

[Asante]

He has a TP20 tour coming up. Oh, T. Pain is still doing the thing. T. Pain has been doing his thing on the Interwebs as a twitch streamer. He's still been in the studio. Yeah. He been doing all kind of shit. So T. Pain has stayed relevant. He's kept the following swing. And he's just proven that he still makes music. He's still in the booth. So I like that. I love that for T. Pain. I Want to make sure I shouted that out and highlighted him because he's been around for so long. I still listen to bartender and in love with a stripper to this day. So you know classics legend, real, his.

[Dustin Ross]

Talented songwriter and producer and in fact, you know what he got down on Reese. Well, not too recently, but recently enough. The remix to that song People by Libyanka.

[Asante]

Oh, he was on the remix today.

[Dustin Ross]

Bianca. Yeah, people, I've been drinking more alcohol in the past five days. Did you check?

[Francesca]

What?

[Asante]

Right.

[Francesca]

What?

[Dustin Ross]

That's my look at people. Hey, don't worry, I'll put it in. I'll play it in a minute.

[Francesca]

Holy five. What is happening?

[Dustin Ross]

Yes.

[Asante]

Yeah, we. We put.

[Dustin Ross]

Did you check Bang. God. I don't smoke banger. Did you check on me? That's my. I'm like, don't worry, we'll get to it.

[Asante]

The also happening. I just want to make sure I highlighted an artist that we've discussed on this show before because she has been on the interwebs going off and I want to make sure we support our black sister. Okay. Isso Y S E U L T. She has been on Twitter as of late. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Dustin Ross]

She.

[Asante]

She might be in France but she is still our sister. Okay. Now recently, most recently I had just seen her because Doja Cat, you know she dropped her album recently. She has a single on there called Gorgeous. There's a video in it. She features a lot of gorgeous women. Isso is one of the gorgeous women. It was amazing thing. She look good as in that too. Well, she always looks good as so which is great to see her have this like mainstream moment even though it was just a video feature. Well, she's having another mainstream moment because artist K pop artists specifically and I am not one to start Asian hate but unfortunately I do not partake enough in the K Pop to want to break down these artists that have stolen her work. But long story short, her work had been stolen it so. So the artist put out a video. Initially she tagged the artist and then the creative team, they admitted to having her video, her work having influenced their work. The problem is it's not okay for just because she called out the artist. Yes, she called out the artist and that may not have been the right move or whatever, but even when they came out, the creative team came out, they only they didn't even really admit to doing what the they did did. I don't think that so what this.

[Francesca]

Case you said what this sound like some gaslighting like the case.

[Asante]

I mean Just all around. That's why I like, I don't even feel like I want to give them names because we already know what type of y' all on. But all I want to say is eo. She has her video. She says it's a straight up copy. The. The lease, the director. The lease, the director, label, artist. The least that they could do is have the decency to credit your source. So I think that when the creative team came out and they were trying to say some of our moments, some of our elements were heavily influenced rather by her work, it was literally said that that's what they admitted in their statement. Right. Trying to say. Trying to take some level of responsibility. The unfortunate thing is there are little like side by side. And like this, it's like the same, like her walking down the hallway looking the way that she looks. The artist that they had, they style her the same like, oh, so like you're inspired by.

[Francesca]

It's just copied.

[Asante]

It's, it's. It was a legit copy paste job. They saw her video and they're like, we should do this for our artists.

[Dustin Ross]

The one where she's in like the office.

[Asante]

Yes.

[Dustin Ross]

And storming down that hallway and she's wearing like a tie and like a.

[Asante]

Like a Powers.

[Dustin Ross]

Yeah, yeah. Know what you're talking about. Isn't it called like on that or some.

[Asante]

Yeah, I. I just knew it was and I didn't want to go down the wrong road. So that's why I didn't even want to say it.

[Dustin Ross]

Yeah.

[Francesca]

Damn. I guess they saw nobody.

[Asante]

It's called you could never.

[Dustin Ross]

Yeah.

[Asante]

Thank you for making me go look it up though. Cuz I just. I really had it on my notes. But everything's all over. You could never is the original video. It came out last year. This new artist, they dropped sometime this year. She just made note of it earlier this month. Month. And that's when this back and forth happened. When she called them out. That's when the K Pop stands decided to, you know, make racist remarks to her. So that's why sometimes when I talk about K Pop on this show, the fans, even our listeners, they'll make note on the comments like, you know K Pop, they could be racist. And there have been notes. And this is another example of racism in K Pop or where there's that intersection. And this is not why I don't talk heavily about it. But this makes me hesitant to support the girls the way I be trying to maybe want to even support the girls. Because stuff like this happens. You can't take something from somebody. And the artist may not have been responsible at all. Like, you know, no one's saying we should attack the artist.

[Francesca]

Sometimes they just show up.

[Asante]

Sometimes especially. I will give the K pop girls that. Especially in that. That arena. They are literally. They're like a waiter, you know, they just have them show up, make the songs, make the songs go on the road. You know what I'm saying? Saying, I feel like I. I'm just telling you the things that I've seen. I saw things maybe I imagined. Okay? But those girls, I don't think they're giving the newer ones. Maybe they're not giving as much creative control. So I don't even want to blame the artist. But you still could. And maybe not in the K pop arena because like I said, you ain't got a whole lot of control, but you still as a person could come out and be like, I ain't mean to do that. Or that wasn't even what I was trying to do, girl. Or. Or it's tragic. I'm so sorry. Let's work together. Which is always raggedy, but at least it's like you're trying to do something. So I wanted to make sure that I highlighted isaut because she is our girl. If I'm saying your name wrong, girl, just correct me on the interwebs. Tell the world, because we need to see more of you over here. I would love if we.

[Francesca]

Damn, that sucks.

[Asante]

I mean, French black, all pop girl. Beautiful black woman just doing her motherfucking thing, and we have to support that as much as possible. I saw she tweeted she's working on two albums at the same time. I love a that's in the booth.

[Dustin Ross]

And you could never downplay my heart smile. You introduced me to her music when you play tuning. And so ever since then, I've been hooked. And I saw a picture of her. They was either in Paris or Milan at fashion week, but her in future were being photographed by the paparazzi, and they was holding hands.

[Francesca]

Her in future.

[Asante]

Yep.

[Dustin Ross]

My body just was like, that's crazy. I was so happy. Yeah, your.

[Francesca]

Your intersections, Dustin, because I told you.

[Dustin Ross]

He makes passionate music like her, right? So I was like, I see it. It makes so much. It's the alignment shoot.

[Asante]

Look, I hope he on one of the new records, to be honest with you. Me too. That's it for the artist dimension.

[Dustin Ross]

I'm on your soap now, Esau. And you want to hold on my body on Esau.

[Francesca]

That's crazy.

[Asante]

And now we can get into the Listen Slave portion of this friend. I would love to know what song she's been listening to.

[Francesca]

I'm going to start with my absolute favorite d' Angelo record from the Voodoo album.

[Asante]

Yes.

[Francesca]

I've been listening to d' Angelo every single day since we got the news.

[Asante]

Yeah, it's so sad.

[Francesca]

And you know what has felt really like. Like we really are just such a community. Every When I went on Tick Tock Instagram, it did not matter. You know how on Instagram those Everybody at the top everybody's was a d' Angelo song. Something about that. Even though I think those notes are so lame, but something about that. Just like, even I put up a song. It was my first time ever using it. I threw up a song because I just was. I love, loved seeing all of us. You scrolled and it just was d' Angelo songs. And someone even tweeted. I retweeted it on Twitter. Like, it just feels like ancestral veneration to do that. Where you just like, I'm gonna play everything you've created, like, in honor of you. And I love that perspective because we do do that. Like, I played him all day. I even fell asleep listening to him. I woke up with his music in my head. Like, like, literally woke up the next day and was just singing d'. Angelo. Me and my partner just been on and off singing d' Angelo throughout the week.

[Dustin Ross]

So what's up?

[Francesca]

Right?

[Dustin Ross]

We love him, right?

[Francesca]

So cute. My personal favorite d' Angelo record is One Mo Again from the Voodoo album. And this is how it goes.

[Asante]

Sh it. I know some things have changed since.

[Francesca]

Last to see you Some good, some for the bad, baby all in all.

[Asante]

I can't complain that's what I've been.

[Francesca]

Through.

[Dustin Ross]

Baby but seeing you reminds me.

[Francesca]

Of the precious times day and I hope I chance I see you once again I love to get your lips bab.

[Dustin Ross]

Once again.

[Francesca]

I. That song has always someone posted on Twitter like a. A collage of every album that came out. Not every album, but from that. That era. Music that came out in 2000. And all I kept thinking was, yo, I went away to College in 2000. I went away to college with the Voodoo album, man. I went away to college with Mama's Gun.

[Dustin Ross]

Yes.

[Francesca]

I went away to college with Maya's. What was it called? Where she had that. The record you complete me.

[Dustin Ross]

The green one. All the fallen.

[Francesca]

Fall. Is it falling or fly?

[Asante]

Falling was the name of the song.

[Francesca]

Maya Fallen that you know, the album. But when they were posting all the Albums that came out in 2000. All I kept thinking was, yo, that's what I went away to school with. Like, talk about being blessed. Like, these are the songs that held me during such a big transition in my life, you know what I mean? As like, a teenager that was now, like, living on their own in a different state and doing something new. And I'm like, music really is everything, and I'm just so grateful. My God is such a. Like, it just holds you. And I'm just so thankful to d'. Angelo. I'm supremely sad still and have not gotten over it. He's just one of those artists that. I feel like a lot of us are still, like, in absolute shock about this.

[Dustin Ross]

We used to laugh when we was kids, and not at my parents or my aunts and my mom and them grieving someone, but we would laugh when we celebrities would pass away that were musicians, and they would be going through it, throwing themselves all over the floor and stuff. And now what we be doing, going through it, throwing ourselves all over the floor and stuff.

[Francesca]

I mean, just when it happens, I get it.

[Dustin Ross]

I've been reacting like that lady on Instagram, you seen that black lady that her daughter always tell her somebody passed away. She was like, you know who I'm talking about? That's how I be reacting.

[Francesca]

I went on the next day, I went on YouTube, actually, the same day we recorded when the news broke. I just watched every piece of YouTube with D' Angelo in it. Every interview, every live performance, every music video, just in a hole with him. But we love you, deangelo, and we will think of you forever.

[Asante]

Forever.

[Francesca]

My next record is Olivia Dean, who has really been killing shit, man. I feel like I don't know if I'm late, but she just. It seemed like she just, like, took over out of nowhere. Yeah, I never heard of her. And then Claude is actually who put me on. He sent me her project and was like, I feel like you would fuck with this. And after that, I felt like I saw her everywhere. Everyone has her records, playing her. She's a really cute girl. The record that I like is called Let Alone the One youe Love.

[Asante]

Mm.

[Francesca]

Thought I was done with this feeling really thought you could be him Thought I was safe? You were the ones that I needed Breath in the evening and then you change you're all the same yeah.

[Asante]

It'S.

[Francesca]

Too much to miss? You're the per that to it though I've tried to hold hold on and if you knew me at all you wouldn't Try to keep me small who would do that to a friend? Let alone the one you love? What?

[Asante]

Love that production too, with that.

[Francesca]

That voice, the way it comes in.

[Asante]

Yeah. And then she writes.

[Francesca]

She does.

[Dustin Ross]

She needs to write for Mary.

[Francesca]

But go ahead, you see it. Mobb Deep has an album out that just like seeing Mobb Deep come up on my Spotify just did something to my spirit. Y' all know how I feel about Mobb Deep. They dropped the album. And I've been listening to Love the way down for your part two. And it's featuring Nas and her and Havoc. And this is how it goes.

[Asante]

Say that, talk to that to me, to me Nasty as you want got permission to be on the mission we moving differently trips to wherever this fit for a queen Talking back then was a different me blind trust now I gotta know what she in for me all in let me see your hand what you working with real I just wanna know what the purpose is Love you for free but you gotta work for this mech LR B I P pass the mo we slow down never on the 10 we always in chicks in the comments like we were more than friends. You don't let them check you out your spot cuz you know when they in they just want to be where you at and deep or win when we all alone you know we go in know this is real and not pretend.

[Francesca]

I just. When he came in, I was like.

[Dustin Ross]

You cut it off and I'm still.

[Francesca]

I saw you still bopping. Those are my three for this week.

[Asante]

All right, Dustin Ross, what have you got? What you been listening to?

[Dustin Ross]

It's only right that the first song I play is a remix to People featuring T Pain by Le Bianca.

[Francesca]

Oh yeah, Let me hear this. This. I've been drinking for five days.

[Asante]

You've heard this song, friend have a.

[Francesca]

For the past five days did you check on me now? Did you look for me? I got and I don't smoke did you check on me? Did you notice me?

[Asante]

I've been drinking all the echo for the last 20 some years when I'm.

[Francesca]

So nobody want here but when I'm drunk everybody's all ears I've been trying.

[Asante]

To tell you time and time again.

[Francesca]

Me and liquor ain't never been friends Knew that I should say something but.

[Dustin Ross]

Then I blacked out on my day.

[Francesca]

One so here I am in front of you asking each and every one of you why you ain't check on me.

[Dustin Ross]

So that's T Pain's remix. Make sure you go and listen to that. It's on YouTube.

[Francesca]

What's it called?

[Asante]

The song People.

[Francesca]

People. Oh, I see. Okay, I got that.

[Dustin Ross]

Love that song.

[Francesca]

Nice.

[Dustin Ross]

The next song I'mma play is a white song. This song is by Tori Amos. It's called a sort of fairy tale.

[Francesca]

Where you at, Tori? Like the hood. And I was talking to you and I knew then it will be a lifelong tango But I didn't know that way we could break a silver lining and I choose it like a good book.

[Dustin Ross]

I really wanted to keep playing. I really. I honestly, truly, really wanted to keep playing it. But I'm not even gonna do that. Cause we got to do the last song. I'mma play. Damn. Oh, it's so much I could play, man. The last song that I'm gonna play is. Oh, you know what? It. The last song I'm gonna play is by Miguel. This song is called New Martyrs Ride for you. Yes.

[Francesca]

Babe I got a chip on my show I got the blick on my wife I checked the time on my phone I put this mask on my face if you tell me that you with it, babe Are you with it, baby? Did y' all watch his interview with Breakfast Club? Yes, I watched some of the.

[Dustin Ross]

My bad.

[Asante]

Yes.

[Francesca]

You done cut the song?

[Asante]

It sound good. How was the interview on Breakfast Club.

[Dustin Ross]

Since we talking about it?

[Francesca]

He was. I mean, he was real open. He was a lot more open. Yeah. Talking about, you know, the album, a lot of it being about his previous.

[Dustin Ross]

Relationship and how he wanted to clear up that time.

[Francesca]

Timeline. There was no overlap with his new relationship and the baby just like really answering the questions people had and getting into the weeds about, like, where he's been, what he's been going through, and what this new album is about. I thought it was good. I'm so glad I didn't get to see the whole thing, but I think I watched about halfway through and it was really, really good.

[Dustin Ross]

Everybody was long winded. Miguel, the Breakfast Club, everybody. Cause we are. Everybody's so happy he's back. It's a long interview.

[Asante]

You know what I'm saying?

[Dustin Ross]

We happy he's back.

[Francesca]

I was twisting up my hair like, oh, I'm done. Damn.

[Dustin Ross]

I'm talking about place gonna take me, like, literally. But I'm glad he's back. Everybody knows that's one of my all time favorite artists, all genres. Everybody knows that.

[Asante]

Yeah.

[Dustin Ross]

I'm happy he's back. So that's it for me this week.

[Francesca]

Absolutely.

[Asante]

You sure you don't want to play your last song, Destin? That's it.

[Dustin Ross]

This is my three songs.

[Asante]

All right. I would like to play just a couple of songs this week. One of them I've had. Well, actually, I've had them both on repeat for very different reasons. The first one goes out to the most amazing, the most beautiful, the most talented. India Sean.

[Francesca]

Yeah.

[Asante]

We finally have it. Yes.

[Dustin Ross]

I want to stand on the car like she. Was she on the car or not Horses or whatever. She was with that big banner in the back when it said gone. I want to take a picture like that.

[Francesca]

She's been on it with these visuals, man.

[Asante]

She's. She's here and she continues to be here and just keep throwing money at her guys. She just wrapped her. She just was on tour with the Free Nationals opening for Givon, so just super happy for her. Super.

[Dustin Ross]

That's huge.

[Francesca]

I love this so much.

[Asante]

India Sean, we love you so much. This song is called Gone, which we hope you never will be girl, period.

[Francesca]

Clothes.

[Asante]

But I can't play with you that's.

[Francesca]

Just a game for fools can't look away I've seen the cracks in you but fixing you had me, bro. You're so stuck in your way it's time to go and if I choose to stay I'll never be the same oh, but now it's never gonna go the way that it should go I'm better on my own I'm better when.

[Asante]

You'Re gone Crazy record.

[Dustin Ross]

That'S gonna get. That's gonna get licensed to a movie for sure.

[Francesca]

You can hear it.

[Dustin Ross]

On her James Bond shit.

[Francesca]

God, sis, I don't know how you do it. Every single song NT has ever put out makes.

[Asante]

She can do anything.

[Francesca]

It is crazy.

[Dustin Ross]

She can do anything starting with Neither do you and I. That song made me cry. So don't even give me.

[Asante]

I'm telling you. I mean, literally, records for years that I. I just continue to go back to sense.

[Francesca]

Oh, shout out India.

[Asante]

Last artist I'm gonna play. Now I wanna say this, and this is just a good like parlay into the next segment because I am playing this artist because I like this record. With that said, I do not believe every artist needs to play.

[Dustin Ross]

I know exactly what.

[Asante]

Cause you doing what you want Cause I'm doing what I want. I want to say I support this to a degree. Now, I love the song because I love the beat, I love the melody. Some of the writing is catchy, but it can definitely use some work. But that's what happens when you're dealing with someone that is not really a music artist.

[Dustin Ross]

I just want to say you gonna have to send this to the space where we send our official selections for the week.

[Asante]

Week.

[Dustin Ross]

This is one of your official selections. And I can't believe we about to get an alert that you're sending that song.

[Asante]

So now I will play for you. Nun doing what I want.

[Francesca]

Oh, no you didn't.

[Asante]

Y know what it is bad.

[Francesca]

Do what they want.

[Asante]

Rule number one my way, baby, yeah.

[Francesca]

Happy wife, happy life, yeah at been doing what I want I'mma do what I want I've been doing what I.

[Asante]

Want yeah I've been doing what I want I've been doing what I want.

[Francesca]

It's a pickup in the back but the trunk in the front. Pizza kila in the back Daddy blunts in the front purse 101 first 101 I got the money make a broke mad I don't complain I just pay.

[Asante]

The tab show me what you have I don't care what you had me.

[Francesca]

I've been having it Me, I've been stacking it.

[Asante]

You ever been to the mall?

[Dustin Ross]

Maldives? It's a Mac.

[Francesca]

Not you knowing the words now one.

[Asante]

Thing I will say about me.

[Francesca]

Why do people do this?

[Asante]

Friend? Define this exactly. Exactly.

[Francesca]

Exactly.

[Dustin Ross]

I can't wait till our hour. I can't wait until our producers insert that Instagram she made when she was dancing to it. She was dancing to it on the boat.

[Asante]

I can't wait for that.

[Dustin Ross]

She turns around and does a very brief.

[Asante]

Approved.

[Dustin Ross]

A very brief, but. But rigorous ass shaking for like three seconds. And it's so funny.

[Asante]

Yeah.

[Dustin Ross]

Yes. For like three seconds. So she literally goes turns around. It's so funny. Like, but she's not trying to be funny.

[Francesca]

If this wasn't such a serious episode, as far as the case, because I do want to, like, honor that I would name this vigorous ass shaking.

[Asante]

See, we had to have some fun. We had to have some fun. And I'm glad this was a place to have it. The only. I mean, listen, I respect the hustle when people want to get money, and I just don't necessarily. I. I like the song.

[Francesca]

Not in music. I'm sorry, people.

[Asante]

Well, the music industry is already such so meh. But friend here, I just want to give you this little quick perspective, right? This is the only perspective I want to give you as a YouTube creator. It's interesting how you go from like, making YouTube videos and then being like, oh, you can't, you know, use other people's music. You have to, like, make your own music or get stock music.

[Francesca]

Right.

[Asante]

Then you watch a show like Johnson's Cabaret where she's seriously doing music and trying to be an artist, and she does videos every season. Season to Natalie Nunn, I guess, trying to. Or. Or somebody in the team trying to recreate that and say, hey, maybe she can start making records that we can play throughout the episodes.

[Francesca]

Oh, now, like, score the show potentially.

[Asante]

Right.

[Francesca]

Okay, well, that's.

[Asante]

So. So. So that's where I'm seeing it. Right. Fast forward to this past episode of the reunion, and then I'm just gonna hand the mic right over to Dustin. Usually the reunions consist of. They had a white man that was rapping or singing at the beginning. He would come perform at the beginning of the reunion.

[Dustin Ross]

He's the producer of the music on the shows. His name is Matt Cash, and he's the one who produces all the original music. You know him?

[Francesca]

No, I do not. I was gonna say. What do you mean? He performs at the top of the reunion? Like a.

[Dustin Ross]

He produces original. Yeah, yeah, he produces, like, other transition music. All that shit. You'll see him in the credits on all the shows.

[Francesca]

Okay.

[Dustin Ross]

Music producer, music, super whatever.

[Asante]

I never connected. He performed that song.

[Dustin Ross]

Yeah, he's the one who produces all that music music. So. Yep. And if you remember back when they were. When Bad Boys was on Zeus and remember they were going to. To the studio, they were all making a song together. He was the producer that was in the studio with them.

[Asante]

Okay. Yes. Wow.

[Francesca]

Wow.

[Asante]

So, friend, this season, Baddy Baddy Natalie performed to open this. The show, which kind of is on brand, since it is her as she. As we are reminded. I just don't like the other rapper that came in. And I'm just gonna leave it there and say that's it for this week's music. And now we can move on to TV land. Dustin Ross. What have you been watching?

[Dustin Ross]

Natalie shake her butt in this Instagram video that I'm about to show to the Patreon. Look. Y' all look okay.

[Francesca]

Yeah.

[Asante]

Did you see. Did you see how fast it was bigger?

[Dustin Ross]

So since we're talking about Zoo, shout out to the Betty's Africa reunion. Part one was about. We got about 30 minutes of reunion actual footage. It's hosted by Saucy Santana and Janisha John. Bobby Lights is the audience host.

[Francesca]

Saucy Santana.

[Dustin Ross]

This is his third reunion in a row. Co hosting with Janisa John. Yep.

[Asante]

He.

[Dustin Ross]

Well, he's a big fan of the show. He watches the show, so he's actually really knowledgeable of. Of what's going on and the online beef, all that.

[Francesca]

So got you. Got you.

[Dustin Ross]

So he was there and it was good. We got to see Elsie get her ass kicked, which Elsie was not my favorite on the show, so I was fine with that. I love Pretty P. She got down. So that's that on that. If you watch it, let me know. We'll do a deeper dive where it belongs. The Real Housewives of Potomac was great this week. Tia is really showing herself to be a great housewife. She got in there with Giselle a little bit. She got in there with Ashley a lot. A bit on this episode and told.

[Francesca]

Her she was one of the new ones.

[Dustin Ross]

Yeah, the British one. She told her list. Can you imagine getting cussed out by somebody with a British accent? She told Ashley.

[Francesca]

I'm talking about in it.

[Dustin Ross]

I mean, for real in it. She told Ashley. She said something like, I've already explained to you that I didn't mean it like that. Whatever. So I'm not sure what it is that you're still struggling. Everybody was like, ooh, like it was good. So it's a great show. Shout out to Kiana Stewart. She's having a great season. To me, and Wendy looked pretty the whole episode. I say she did.

[Asante]

No, no.

[Dustin Ross]

I mean. And I'm not saying that to slight what she contributed to the show. I'm just saying she looked really pretty and it was almost like sad, like, damn, I hate that. You know what I'm saying that that situation is going on. Cause she's really come a long way as a housewife life, so. But it was good. So make sure you watch that.

[Francesca]

I watched the first episode. I know why it's weird. It feels weird. I haven't seen it in a long time, so it feels weird. Like, who's missing? You know, the fact that there's all these new people.

[Dustin Ross]

No Karen. Yeah.

[Francesca]

No Karen. No. What was the blonde?

[Asante]

Robin.

[Francesca]

Robin. Did you say Katie?

[Asante]

Yeah, you know, I just, you know, Katie. I love Katie. I'm sorry. Not that I love her being on the show, but it's just something. Katie's one of those people if she just recurs every now and then, she don't need a permanent spot. But if she just comes back every now and then, I'm always gonna appreciate and enjoy it because they're all gone.

[Dustin Ross]

Katie Ross alleged that she slept with ShareEase on the show. She said her and Charisse slept together in the garage. And then she just like recently, like two weeks ago, she was on Twitter saying that Ashley Darby ate her and then went on.

[Francesca]

Literally.

[Dustin Ross]

And then went on.

[Francesca]

They having a blast on this.

[Dustin Ross]

She went on as she said, Ashley went on watch what happens live and said Katie had a hamster pussy. Now, what does that. People took that as an insult. Thank you. Because I said this on Monday Night Live. I thought it was a hamster's fat. I thought it was a compliment. You know what I'm saying? But apparently it's an insult. I didn't know that. So we'll close out the TV section with that.

[Asante]

Oh, God.

[Dustin Ross]

Yeah.

[Francesca]

Yeah.

[Dustin Ross]

Also, shout out to Cash doll. Killing it on Reasonable Doubt. She's doing a great job.

[Francesca]

You know what? I finally thank you for reminding me. Cause I realized that I have a couple more episodes left. It's so good. I really like that show. And she is doing a good job. I saw someone tweet that she's doing a better job than on bmf. And she was tweeting.

[Dustin Ross]

She did good. She's so funny.

[Francesca]

She's being a good sport about it, which I love.

[Asante]

I'm a watch.

[Dustin Ross]

She's so funny.

[Francesca]

Reasonable doubt is a must. And then love is blind. Y'. All. Did y' all want to watch it?

[Asante]

I'm caught up.

[Dustin Ross]

I'm not caught up.

[Francesca]

Dustin. We waiting on you, King.

[Dustin Ross]

I will get caught up. For real.

[Francesca]

You have to. This is the week that it ends this new season. So if y' all watch it and catch up, then next week we can laugh about about it because it's a travesty.

[Asante]

Friend. You caught up on the morning show yet?

[Francesca]

No, I haven't even started.

[Asante]

You have got to catch up. I want to talk to you about our girl from what was the show we just watched on Patreon with the. Our sister that's on there.

[Francesca]

Oh, the mom.

[Asante]

Yes. You have got to see her new wig. I want to talk to somebody about the new wig. It's all I want to talk about.

[Francesca]

But I'mma watch it. But I think it's not. I haven't. The reason I haven't started is because Lowkey. I think I need to restart the previous season.

[Asante]

Oh, yeah.

[Francesca]

Because I don't remember what happened, to.

[Asante]

Be honest with you. It's only gonna. Well, as long as you remember. She was with that white man. Jennifer Aniston was with that white man. Like, he comes up a little bit at some point, but it's like.

[Francesca]

I feel like you would like it.

[Asante]

But to be really real with you friend, It's. It's like a new Aaron Pierre is on this season. Oh, but it's like. It's like some new didn't happen and they're calling back to some of the old, but they're bringing that back. So you remember. So it's like, okay, good. Because y' all brought up a name. I'm like, who the is this? But I'm like, oh, I do remember that person. And then. Oh, good. Okay, cool. So. Okay, I don't think you need to go back watch that first episode. When you watch that opener, you might be a little confused, but when you watch the episode, it'll fall right in because it's like, right. New season of our new, you know, company. This is how we're moving forward.

[Francesca]

Bet I'm gonna watch it and get back in the swing of that. Dustin, watch Love is Blind. Both of y' all catch talk about it.

[Asante]

Friend watch Love Cabin.

[Francesca]

I heard.

[Asante]

Dustin, did you watch it?

[Dustin Ross]

Say nothing about it.

[Francesca]

Damn, is that bad? Yeah, I heard it's like Love island in the trenches.

[Asante]

That's literally in the trenches, though. It's like literally in the trenches.

[Francesca]

On that note, we love you so much. Thanks for hanging with us yet another week. I was gonna say next week is the last week of Crime Zone. I don't know if Dustin's gonna do a Crime Zone episode though. If you wanna do it, I got this.

[Asante]

You should do it. I'm staying.

[Dustin Ross]

I'm gonna stay on theme.

[Francesca]

You know, I didn't know. Cause I'm like, it's the first time you would have had to do two producers. You already did the emergency room producer over here.

[Asante]

How little do you to want? Wanted to do too.

[Francesca]

We'll see you guys next week. For the last week, we love you guys.

[Asante]

Stay black and protect your magic.

[Francesca]

Bye. This is with my job.

[Asante]

I can't drink during the week.

[Dustin Ross]

Weekends are a different story.

[Francesca]

After eight hours of this, I have earned my wine.

[Asante]

You know what I'm saying? My family is a lot. It takes me four beers just to hang out with them. Binge drinking isn't all college kids doing cake stands? Oregonians in their 30s and 40s binge drink at close to the same rates as younger people, raising our risk for.

[Dustin Ross]

Long term health problems. [e-mail] An OHA initiative.

[Francesca]

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