We Called The Lady - Featuring Crissle's Couch

Summary

The Friend Zone – Episode Summary

Podcast: The Friend Zone
Episode: We Called The Lady – Featuring Crissle's Couch
Date: May 20, 2026
Hosts: Dustin Ross, Hey Fran Hey, Assanté
Guest: Crissle of The Read / Crissle's Couch

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Overview

This episode is a vibrant roundtable featuring the Friend Zone’s signature blend of humor and mental health insight, with a special guest appearance from Crissle (of The Read and Crissle’s Couch). The crew dives deep into the psychology of susceptibility—why some people fall prey to grifters, cults, body modification fads, and fraudulent therapists—while others resist. The episode is rich with personal stories, clinical input, cultural observations, and an extended reflection on documentaries like Caterpillar, The Cult of Nature Boy, and Compliance. The discussion is both hilarious and thoughtful, serving listeners who want a mix of lived wisdom, Black cultural context, and real talk.

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Main Discussion Themes

1. Why Do People Fall for Predators (Cults, Scams, Fake Doctors)?

• Vulnerability and Background: The group distinguishes between people who externalize pain (e.g., abusers, cult leaders) and those who internalize it, becoming self-destructive or easy prey (50:27, Crissle: “Some people take their pain and they make it everybody else's problem. Other people internalize it and punish themselves.”).
• Search for Belonging: Humans are hardwired for connection. People without supportive family/community are “far more susceptible” to predatory attention (61:11, Crissle).
• Narcissistic Tactics: Cult leaders use manipulation, isolating members from other influences so followers start believing abuse is their own fault.
• Resilience vs. Luck: It’s not always “strength” that protects people from grifters; sometimes they simply haven’t been targeted with the right con at the right time (80:06, Crissle).

2. Personal Stories, Empathy, and Skepticism

• Hosts' Perspectives: Dustin jokes about “never being that stupid,” while Fran empathizes, acknowledging how trauma and upbringing can dull self-protective instinct.
• Internal Compass: Fran discusses her own past difficulty in trusting herself due to trauma (67:02).
• The Power of Anchors: Developing meaningful “anchors”—friends, family, or support—can help, but sometimes people simply lack the opportunity or luck to find them (100:24, Crissle).

3. Case Studies From Docs: Cults & Body Mods

• Nature Boy Cult:
  • Attraction was the utopian, Black-centered promise (waterfalls, sun, community), but things devolved into abuse and control.
  • Many followers had rough backgrounds—instability, trauma, lack of opportunity.
  • Sexual abuse, manipulation, forced “community” highlighted how trauma and the need for belonging can override logic.
  • Memorable Quote (55:19, Crissle): “That's how they draw you in…when they switch up…the brain says, let me correct myself so I can go back to how it was.”
• Caterpillar (Iris Surgery Doc):
  • Participants were craving transformation to escape trauma; body mods were “taking control” after a life of not feeling loved (114:03, Fran).
  • Critique of how these stories are entertainment for outsiders, but rooted in pain for participants.
• Compliance (Obedience Experiment):
  • The Good Kid Myth: Teaching obedience (“good kids never talk back”) can set kids up for situations where they can’t say no to authority, even when it’s deeply wrong (89:35, Fran, 90:18, Crissle).
  • Milgram and Stanford Prison Experiment references illustrate how easily people cave to group/authority pressure—even if they rationally know better.

4. Fraudulent Doctors: Cheyenne Bryant & The Lure of Credentials

• Crissle’s Real Talk: She explains why Dr. Cheyenne Bryant’s career is deeply problematic, highlighting the dangers when unqualified people position themselves as mental health authorities (41:39, Crissle).
• Public Trust: Dustin and Fran stress how especially vulnerable communities get preyed upon by “experts” who are really opportunists (45:13, Crystal: “Where else is trust more important or valuable than the relationship between therapist and client?”).
• Cultural Factors: Discussion of why men flock to certain female “experts,” how patriarchy and anti-Blackness shape reception of “gurus,” and the need for better discernment.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Crissle on susceptibility:
  “Sometimes people are just different… I would venture to say it’s not necessarily a matter of resilience. It may just be that the right con hasn’t found you yet.” (80:06)
• Fran on childhood wounds:
  “There was a lot of things I was experiencing that I wasn’t sure if I should be in this position. Is this a good thing? Is this a bad thing?” (67:56)
• Crissle on the power of community:
  “Having emotionally mature parents is the biggest cheat code in this life… you are starting off leagues ahead…” (82:55)
• Dustin on self-accountability and family:
  “I pride myself on…saying I’m sorry without an explanation. That’s the only way you can really express to a person how much you value the relationship. Humility is the most valuable currency.” (105:44)

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Listener Letters – Crystal’s Couch Mashup (Listener Q&A)

Timestamps: [143:10] onward

1. Adjusting to Life Getting Better While Still Stuck in Survival Mode

• Advice: It’s normal to feel “stuck in the mud” even after growth; “give yourself a pat on the back,” acknowledge incremental improvements, and start with small self-care wins (146:09, Crissle).

2. Coping with Abandonment When Friends Move Away

• Advice: Acknowledge pain, distinguish between current sadness and older wounds, express feelings (don’t bottle them), but don’t project at your friends (151:40, Crissle: “This is not about your friend… acknowledge the deeper pain.”).

3. Making Friends with Different Belief Systems

• Advice: Don’t debate if it’s not personally harmful (“just let them have it”), but also don’t force friendships misaligned at a values level. Boundaries are crucial (156:22, Crystal).

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Community Highlights & Celebrations

• Black-owned initiatives: Special shout to I Love You, Jocelyn—an animated Warner Bros. show by/for the Haitian community (08:27, Fran).
• Black women in golf: Ongoing theme of Black women supporting and celebrating each other in new spaces (golf, sports clubs, etc.) (13:25, Fran).
• Building Real vs. Online Community: Persistent encouragement for listeners to seek real-life hobbies/clubs as a way to build resilience and connection.

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Key Timestamps

• Opening & Viral Texas Courtroom Incident: [01:02]–[05:59]
• Black Business of the Week: [08:27]
• Listener Letters & Car Auction Discussion: [11:03]–[19:25]
• Nature Boy Cult Recap: [22:25]–[29:10]
• Crystal's Couch Introduction: [35:32]–[39:57]
• Predatory Leaders, Trauma, and Resilience: [49:40]–[66:43]
• Why Good Kids Sometimes Get Got: [89:55]–[94:13]
• Caterpillar Documentary Deep Dive and Psychology of Body Modification: [110:47]–[120:53]
• Small Steps Toward Self-Trust (Crissle’s Clinical Tips): [121:52]–[125:54]
• Listener Letters Q&A: [142:34]–[163:39]

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Tone & Language

The tone is candid, irreverent, and deeply empathetic. The hosts use humor as both critique and catharsis, balancing laugh-out-loud asides with serious reflection. Language is uncensored and colloquial, especially when driving home points about Black lived experience and the messiness of growth.

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Conclusion

This episode offers both entertainment and grounding wisdom: people’s susceptibility to grifters and cults is less about being “stupid” and more about trauma, need for community, and the luck of emotional support networks. The key is developing self-trust, seeking anchors, and giving ourselves grace for being human in a world full of manipulators. Importantly, connection—with oneself and others—is the real antidote.

Transcript

[Crystal]

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[Fran]

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[Crystal]

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[Fran]

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[Dustin]

Welcome to the Friends.

[Fran]

I'm Francesca, also known as. Hey, friend.

[Asante]

Hey, my name is Asante.

[Dustin]

This is the Friend Z.

[Crystal]

They are sick of it.

[Dustin]

And so am I on the Dead homies. For real. For real. Yeah, I'm sick of it too. And they are too and is acting out about it. And I'mma tell you what I'm talking about right now.

[Fran]

So many things, right?

[Dustin]

So recently in Texas, there was a lawyer named Michael Phillips. He looks like the piece of shit that they turned his brother Chet into in Weird Science. He looks like that in real life. A Kyle Plop. He looks like. Yeah, he looks like he's moldy. He does. He looks like there's liver spot issues, maybe like a sugar issue. You know what I'm saying? He looks like he's rotten from the inside out. And he caught another black woman a. A In a courtroom in Tex. In Texas recently. Yep, yep. And it went viral. Everybody was talking about it. So shout out to the brother, Quinnell X. And shout out to Dr. Candace Matthews, who is known for wearing cowboy hats and cussing. Okay? And baby, they went and they met him in Brazoria County, Texas, at a courthouse. And they confronted him. And here's what they had to say. And I was so proud. Dustin Ross was so pleased. Hold on. I'm gonna say for you right now, here's what they had to say right here.

[Fran]

Yeah, that's your ass.

[Dustin]

So you don't like saying you gonna call it? I bet you.

[Asante]

I bet you call in front of a black man. I bet you won't call me.

[Dustin]

Let me help you.

[Asante]

You call a black woman anywhere?

[Dustin]

Call me that.

[Crystal]

No, call me.

[Asante]

I dare you to do it. And I swear for God, I'll make you taste the ancestors.

[Crystal]

Me too.

[Fran]

Oh.

[Asante]

Call that black woman the N word. You a real college man.

[Dustin]

We'll catch you inside.

[Asante]

Go right ahead. I guarantee you wouldn't do it in front of me.

[Crystal]

Come on.

[Fran]

Come on.

[Asante]

I know. In fact, I know you won't say

[Dustin]

the n word in front of me.

[Fran]

Come on.

[Dustin]

And I give you a taste.

[Asante]

Everything for the ancestors. Say it. Say it in front of me. I value say it's qu x.

[Dustin]

But you'll learn it real well today.

[Asante]

Yeah, say it. I bet you won't say your word in my face. See, you talk to black women like that by themselves. You intimidate black women by themselves. But a black man, you won't open your goddamn mouth. I dare you to say.

[Dustin]

That's right. And there was more. I had to cut it cuz the intro can only be so long. But. But there was more because she went on to do one of my favorite things, which is body shaming. She went on to tell him, get your bald headed ass in there. They was talking about him like a motherfucker and I loved it. Yep.

[Asante]

Let me tell you something.

[Fran]

Is he quiet?

[Dustin]

He's old and fucked up and obviously in horrible health. And so he was shocked. He was standing there, you know, he looked like. The racist aesthetic has not changed. When it's come to legislators, lawyers, those races have. They look just like the pictures from the 60s and 50s and 30s. It's that same look. He had it. So he was shot, stiff neck, you know, all like that. And he didn't know what to do with himself because they put that fire to his ass. Now it was mild. There was no violence, there was no real, you know, consequence of physical harm, you know what I'm saying? It was just words, but it felt good and it felt good to hear.

[Fran]

Sometimes that's enough.

[Dustin]

And black people, we need to heal right now and we need to be on the same page. Shout out to the incredibly talented content creator, Dab the Ink, Dab the Inc. He's a really, really talented commentator and he made a video about how black people need to be sticking together on one accord right now on some gang gang shit. And if they disrespect you, disrespect them back. Okay? Cuss they ass out, talk, pick out a flaw like he said, and talk about it. And that's what we need to do. And so I was so happy, y' all know, because that type of advocacy and patriotism and, you know, fighting for our rights, that's my kind right there. Like, I feel like that's where I'll be able to stand in the gaps of history, you know, and bridge it, because I can. Call me Bridgerton, because I can do that.

[Asante]

You know what I'm saying?

[Dustin]

I can get in there and cuss their ass out. So I'm happy to see that others understand the value in that as well. It brought me joy to. So I wanted to turn into Anita Baker for y' all and bring you joy, too. And that's it, you know? So with that being said, welcome to the Friend Zone, your weekly look into all things mental health, mental wellness and mental custard. White ass out. Hey, you run into a Karen, and Karen is not gender specific. It's just like bitch for gays. It's not gender specific. But you know what? Cuss a Karen out. Anybody that interrupts your experience, custom out and do it in a way that's memorable would be my only note. Right. Go there. Whatever. You think the worst thing you can say to them is gonna make them cry. Okay. And hurt their feelings. Do it. Talk about kids, grandmothers.

[Asante]

You know what I'm saying?

[Dustin]

Talk about it. Talk about it.

[Asante]

Wives.

[Dustin]

You know what I'm saying? Talk about it. It's time. So I just want to say hello. Hey, friend. Hey, Sante. How y' all doing?

[Asante]

You know?

[Dustin]

Good.

[Asante]

This is not the place for it, but there won't be a place for it this week, friend. I'm so sorry to do this to you. Dustin Baddies, the one with the. Now, That's Zeus.

[Dustin]

Chapter two. Baddies, U.S.A. chapter two. Yeah.

[Asante]

Your baby. Well, you might be new to.

[Dustin]

Yeah, they were that angry with each

[Asante]

other, saying it to each other.

[Dustin]

So, friend. There was a fist fight between two. There was a fist fight between two cast members. And as they were fighting, they were so angry. They had been. There was so much pent up anger between the two of them. Cause they had been arguing on the Internet for about a year and they hadn't seen each other. And so when they finally came face to face, they fought. I'm talking about battles, okay? And in one of the fights, they were so angry with each other that as they were both punching each other, they was like, fuck. So you said something about my baby.

[Crystal]

Fuck your baby. Fuck your baby. Fuck your baby, bitch. Fuck your baby, bitch.

[Dustin]

And they was punching each other, saying it to each other. And even though it's one of the worst things you can say to a person, you see, it's making y' all laugh because it was. What made it funny is that they was dead serious. They were. That's how mad they were at each other. They had just clicked completely out of reality.

[Fran]

Oh, God.

[Asante]

So yeah,

[Dustin]

You can see. You can mine a gym from anywhere. Even bad as USA chapter 2. If a do that caring with you, your baby, get them. Get them. Especially if they got their grandkids with them, because most of the time they older than a. Anyway. So get him. Clip a. Clip a kid. I'm one. I'm with that. I'll stick my ankle out. You call me a nigger and got a grandchild with you if you want to. I'll stick my ankle out. Man, you gonna get a boo. You're gonna get a boo boo. You know what I'm saying? Y' all better get the beta Dean, okay? Cause I'm about to handle this.

[Fran]

All right, let's jump into. I am shaking. I actually pulled this black business from the comments on our Patreon. Do y' all know, right? First of all, it was Haitian flag day yesterday.

[Asante]

Yes.

[Fran]

Okay, my peoples. And you know, it's also Haitian Heritage Month.

[Asante]

Hey, friend.

[Crystal]

Okay.

[Dustin]

Happy Haitian Heritage Month. I love it.

[Fran]

Happy Haitian heritage celebrations.

[Asante]

Blessings.

[Fran]

Okay? Blessings.

[Dustin]

Haitian.

[Fran]

So Yanitza Bernadell said. Hi, friend zone. Thank you for all that you do and for always highlighting and putting us on. Putting us on to all things black. I'm so excited to bring this to your awareness. For the first time ever, the Haitian culture and community has our own ever Haitian American animation and cartoon.

[Asante]

Wow.

[Fran]

Illustrated and created by Tracy Laguerre, and it's titled I love you, Jocelyn. This project is creating over 200 jobs for black creators and is bringing representation and empowerment to the Haitian community. It is available now to watch on The Warner Brothers YouTube channel. And obviously, if we give that support, hopefully that will transition it into television. But it's a win for black women, the Haitian community, and for black creators. Please check it out. And happy Haitian American Month.

[Dustin]

We gotta clap for that again.

[Asante]

Yeah.

[Fran]

That's so great. I looked it up. And this is for those of you on Patreon. Look how adorable the main character.

[Dustin]

So cute. So cute.

[Fran]

And her grandma with the head wrap, like, it's just so good. It's so good.

[Dustin]

I want to watch this.

[Fran]

Haiti. Yeah. She's in Haiti, and it's just her trials and tribulations as a young girl on an island. So definitely check it out. Like she said, it's called I love you, Jocelyn, and it's created by Tracy Laguerre. So check that out. Just type in Warner Brothers on YouTube. You can even just type that way, I love you, Jocelyn. It pops right up because I looked it up right After I saw the comment.

[Asante]

That's so Justin with the C and a Y. Just so you all know.

[Fran]

Yes, Jocelyn. J, O, C, E, L, Y, N. Because I know people do spell that differently.

[Asante]

So Jocelyn Hernandez kept coming up and maybe that was my algorithm, so.

[Fran]

Right, right.

[Dustin]

I don't think we would be able to find anything online that says, I love you, Jocelyn Hernandez.

[Fran]

You never know.

[Asante]

The first thing that came up was Shasta Hernandez. I like the way you are.

[Dustin]

See, see?

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Dustin]

I don't think I have any turd. Anybody say, you know what?

[Fran]

That's the Caribbean Princess right there.

[Asante]

True. But I see this cartoon and it looks fly already. Like, is she surfing on a sword? Oh, yeah. I'm gonna have to get into this.

[Dustin]

It's very cute.

[Fran]

So I definitely. Let's all. But since I looked at it, I think it had a little under a hundred thousand views. I don't know where it's at right now. Asante. You're looking at it. But let's just send some traffic while we record. Right, right. I literally did that. So let's send some love that way.

[Asante]

Yeah. 82k views on this one.

[Fran]

Yes. It was like a little. A little under a hundred thousand. So let's pump that up. Okay, let's jump into the recap. Oh, thank you also for letting us know about that because I literally would not have known otherwise. Jump into the recap segment. Last week's episode titled the Kids Are all right. It was a Shoot the Shit episode. You know, that means no hot button, no segments, just whatever wanted to come up. And those of you listening had a lot to say. Who stood out to you, Asante?

[Asante]

A lot of you all stood out to me, especially in the Spotify streets. I want to give my first shout out to you. I think this is Chi Ok992. Chi Ok992 comment reads, I drove a nice auction car from summer 2021 to January 2026 and then sold it on Facebook Marketplace to a sweet older lady. Not too much on Marketplace. Now use that money towards my current car from the auction. Nice shout out to Chi. A lot of testimonies on the auctions. I also want to shout out to Bamo Frog. Bamo Frog says, hey, y'. All. So, hey, friend. Hey. I've worked for a dealership for 15 years and I'm intimately familiar with auction policies. An auction buy is protected by something called the arbitration agreement. If the vehicle or title is not as described, you can return it to the auction for a refund of everything except the auction fees and transportation if you haven't shipped. So a lot of information in these streets about the vehicles. I thought a lot of people will fly for that. I also wanted to shout out call me Cam98. Hey friend, I'm actually a black woman who works in golf. You will totally get the bug. I run a program that helps people like us get jobs in the golf industry. There are so many dope black women in this industry. I encourage to go to pga.org to find a golf coach in your area. You can also look up on the IPGA website if you are looking for a woman coach. I love to hear this shout out to you. Call me Kam. And you know, thanks for sharing those resources. If you got any more resources to share on those Spotify streets, I'm looking forward to them. That's all I want to share because a lot of y' all had a lot to say and a lot of y' all were laughing obviously at Dustin's foolishness. And I don't want to get so early in this episode. Fran, what did you find out there in those streets?

[Fran]

I do want to say, oh my goodness, the way y' all were tagging me to your golf outfits, videos of you golfing. All these black women looking amazing with their, with their golf skirts and golf dresses. Black women golf, y' all know, because we're going to look cute wherever we go. So the outfits was outfitting and a lot of orgs to hit me up, which was really good. Yeah, a lot of orgs like, oh my God, if you ever want to partner up or like do some kind of event, I'm like, wait, I literally only played once, so I'm not there yet. But.

[Asante]

Well, if you ever do like a beginner's golf event or something, friend, I come out for that.

[Fran]

Or maybe something where like we all trying to feel it out, then that would make sense. So obviously I'm not like in a position to be no golf spokesperson, but I do love how many of you are into it. I'm actually going to read one of the comments too because I thought this was so cute. Lili202 said, I'm my niece's caddy. That's so cute. She just started playing 18 holes. She's 11, but has been golfing since she was 7. And yes, it's torture without snacks and adult beverages and herbs. I'm in the DM area and we have a few black owned courses that also offer night golf and other really social stuff. It's a different vibe, but it's an expensive hobby. I was like night golf. So you know me, I started looking into it and oh my God, it's so cute. They have like glow in the dark balls and like the holes are lit up.

[Dustin]

Yes, I'm with it. You know, I like, I love shit like that. And it would be really fun. We just got to go in the right neighborhood now. That's the only thing.

[Fran]

Cause you never know.

[Dustin]

Strange fruit. So we just gotta go in the right neighborhood.

[Fran]

Especially out here.

[Dustin]

Listen here, listen to me.

[Fran]

Ashley said friend. I just like literally an hour ago joined a black women athletic club that does golf, tennis, pickleball and so much more. I'm so excited. Let's exchange some cute outfit ideas. I'm down. Ashley, email me DM me. I'll show you what I found. You show me what you about. I love that there's an athletic club for black women.

[Dustin]

Yes.

[Fran]

What? Where is this Ashley, I mean, you don't have to. I won't say it, you know where you are, but I'm just curious, right? I won't read it, but I'm curious.

[Asante]

Just let her know her know.

[Fran]

Right? Let me know. I'm just curious where this is. That's so fly. I never thought of that or even knew that that was a thing.

[Dustin]

A thing.

[Fran]

They have women together doing sports and activities.

[Dustin]

And this is why I don't want to hear nothing about no bed. Right? Because your ass can be doing something. Look at all these social groupings and ways for you to. All jokes aside, these are legitimate ways if you're not a naturally social person.

[Asante]

Child of.

[Fran]

Right.

[Dustin]

These are great tools to use to engage with real people in the real world. Join a club, an athletic club,

[Fran]

head

[Dustin]

club, I don't know, just join a club. You know what I'm saying?

[Fran]

And it's cool because you're meeting people that are like minded, right? They're wanting to be active. This is what they would be doing on the weekend. So it's kind of.

[Asante]

You never know who you could network or connect with in those spaces. So that part, you know, someone owns new opportunities.

[Dustin]

You better dig that gold.

[Fran]

Okay, Mar Marquez says I'm not a golfer. But there's this black owned company that sells golf accessories and clothes. It's called Eastside Golf. I have a pair of Air Max when they partnered with Nike. Of course we do.

[Asante]

And I'm mind you, he don't go.

[Dustin]

Right, right, right, right.

[Fran]

That'd be me wearing jerseys of teams that I couldn't even tell you what city they're in.

[Dustin]

But it's cute.

[Fran]

Who is their top player? But if the color is coloring, I'll buy it.

[Dustin]

I spoke to the color, the coloring spoke to me.

[Asante]

The hit is a hit.

[Fran]

The color is missing in my closet. And then my last one is Shayla Hampton. Shayla says when I say Asante, you are spot on with people being guinea pigs when they buy the first batch of vehicles being, oh my God. I work for a car manufacturer and we had so many issues with our luxury model that many people spent over 80 to $100,000 on and the technology in the vehicle didn't work and also caused other issues like the battery draining, et cetera. It took several months to work out. Could you imagine? It took several months to work out all of the kinks. And the cars that go to auction are also sometimes buybacks. So you have to be careful. That means people file lemon law claims and based on their state law, the manufacturer had to give them their money back. These cars will then go to auction and a lot of dealerships buy them for cheap and resell them. But they have to disclose that the title is branded due to it being deemed a lemon. Definitely do your research before buying from the auctions. They are as is sellers and you can end up getting stuck with a piece of of junk, right?

[Dustin]

I wish they would.

[Fran]

I love the women that be teaching

[Asante]

us on shout out to you Shayla girl.

[Dustin]

Shayla next time you say instead of junk. But great email nonetheless.

[Crystal]

You know what?

[Asante]

Okay. Hit a lot of cylinders. I like that.

[Dustin]

It was good. The hell word. Yes.

[Fran]

Some people don't like the.

[Dustin]

Didn't we almost have it up?

[Asante]

That's real though about those cars though. Like you gotta, you gotta check those carfaxes. You gotta check. And even when you check those carfaxes, if you go and get. Well, not from aside from the auction and. But auction included. Once you buy a car, get that thing looked at it. Look, I had a brand new car at one point and I got that thing looked at just to be sure because you just never know.

[Fran]

So yeah, someone in the comments said David, you know the one that's in the current case with the young girl that he murdered. They were like, don't forget David's car is being sent to auction. I'm like, cut it out.

[Asante]

I want to turn my camera off

[Dustin]

so bad because y' all have really got to stop.

[Fran]

But it's the way they just wrote, David's car is being sent to auction. That was the whole comment. I was like, you know what and it was on Patreon. Y' all are just. I said I was exploring the option. So the episode before that was called a medical read. Wow. And we were revisiting carbonation after watching Hulu's the Cult of Nature Boy. This was an Asante production. And we looked at what once looked like freedom and community revealed a much darker, deeper story of control manipulation. And we discussed how it all began. Those of you listening had a lot to say about that episode. Who stood out to you? Ahsante.

[Asante]

A lot of people had a lot to say. Still on the Spotify streets. Shout out to Major Morris. Major wanted to clear up and say, my bad friend, I wasn't trying to put Nature Boy all on you. I didn't recall that Asante brought it to the group. Also, Honey Eyes had me on the floor. Thank you, Dustin.

[Dustin]

Honey Eyes,

[Fran]

you are so.

[Asante]

I want to also shout out to. I think this is Elle Wilkes. I can't, you know, the letters are just too small for me to make out what's really happening here. So if I'm saying this wrong, apologies, girl, yet I'm trying not to squint. I gotta go to the doctor so bad. But this comment reads, it was me who tweeted about how I heard of Nature Boy. I just wanted to shout y' all out. And I missed this episode because five out of five was five. Five was my birthday. I had a feeling y' all saw my shout out.

[Dustin]

Love y' all. Cinco.

[Asante]

Happy birthday. Especially because it's on Cinco de Mayo. That's a very, very special day. Spanish rice.

[Dustin]

Hell yeah.

[Asante]

A lot. The last comment I want to share is from I am Guzzy. The Common reads.

[Dustin]

No lie.

[Asante]

YouTube kept showing me previews for this doc and I was wondering if y' all were going to revisit and watch. I'm sat for this episode. Shout out to you. Honestly, once the dot came up, I didn't know if it was going to be redundant or not. But shout out to the people in the Patreon streets and the gated community that were like, during our last wind down, which is coming up, they were like, we want it. We wanted y' all to bring it back and talk about it again. So we did that and glad that you all enjoyed that.

[Dustin]

And guess who has been digging deep into the Hood Horrors 40 part nature boy documentary on YouTube. I'm on like 21 or 22.

[Fran]

I started to suspect I'm like in the middle.

[Dustin]

Let me tell you something. Them motherfuckers were full of shit. You would have got a completely different Dustin if we reviewed it after I saw that.

[Fran]

I low key wish we had seen that first.

[Asante]

First.

[Fran]

Yeah, it.

[Dustin]

We could do the.

[Asante]

There was a remix they were full

[Dustin]

of is what it was about it today.

[Fran]

We're going to talk about it today.

[Asante]

Right. But there were like several documentaries like floating around as the that cult had been happening. Which is why I think ultimately it led up to him finally getting arrested because it was like, all right, this streaming now it's been putting together up in these YouTube documentaries. And so I wish I would have seen this one first.

[Dustin]

You know what else led up to them getting arrested? Doing like going live on Instagram singing Big Booty Vegan Girl. And they was. They was over there then was a bunch of. I'm just gonna. I'll save it. I'll save it.

[Fran]

Right?

[Dustin]

Talk about it on the show. I'll say nevermind when I tell you. When I saw them twerking and. And singing Big Booty Vegan Girl on Instagram Live full stop. Because what the are y' all niggas over here doing? Don't none of this.

[Fran]

And the way that they changed their posture on the Hulu doc was interesting, right? Once you had a little more context,

[Asante]

it's funn because a lot of people so can't just. Last comment that I'm gonna. Or last couple comments.

[Crystal]

Really?

[Asante]

Cause this one just took me out. I didn't read that one the first time. Okay, last couple comments and I'm gonna give it to you friend. Kristin Moore's comment says yo nature boy Lowkey looks like the raised eyebrow dude. I kept seeing memes and memes and gifs.

[Fran]

People were tagging us and I was like stop.

[Asante]

Look, I ain't see that. Sorry. I'll be on the live. Last comment is from Kim D opara. It reads, this was a great episode which led me straight to the tube of you. I'm now watching the 50 part series by Hood horror Hulu left out a lot. I'm now canceling all my weekend plans. Shout out to you Kimity for checking out this episode and then going to check that out. So apparently we're going to be running that back today and I want to hand it over to you, Fran. What did you find out there in those streets?

[Fran]

Well, Vanessa said I don't know. After a deep dive on YouTube I feel like more of the men and women should be in jail and or ordered to court ordered mental health 100%.

[Asante]

Yeah.

[Fran]

So Mia Lashawn said I have to Admit I didn't have much empathy at first, watching the lives in real time, especially seeing certain members, members around ATL who kept going back and perpetuating the violence. But you all really put into perspective the manipulation and the fact that it literally could be anyone. And to Yalls point, those members weren't in the best situations financially or family wise and were also a part of the spiritual communities. And she wrote think to sillies if you know, you know. And it's funny because remember when I lived Atlanta and the whole Tappy person that I lived in Atlanta with and I was around all of this and so I know the, the lore. Remember? Was it sevenanda? Was it seven and like the juice place? Anyway, the ATL people know, so I can see how they were susceptible to the original message of the group. A lot was left out of the dock, including people who died. We're going to talk about that too on this episode. So I'm glad some of the members saw the depth of the situation. In hindsight, I'm truly praying for their healing. It was a very, very dark situation. Just terrible all around. That's why I felt like it was important for us to get a more clinical perspective on how this happens. Because I think it's hard to sit there and watch Velvet and the guy, True or Honey Eyes as Dustin was calling him, and listen to them now try to remove themselves, you know. But while yes, obviously they were manipulated in a lot of ways, but they also were compliant in a lot of ways and perpetuating the abuse of the queer members that were complicit all of the things. And so that's where it starts getting tricky. And that's why I wanted to have a clinical perspective because it's like, how do we reconcile and hold space for those two things? Because, you know, they're complex.

[Dustin]

And by two things we mean Velvet and Honey Eyes. Those are two things. Like I'm trying to figure out how to hold space for after the shit I done found out. My eyes are open.

[Fran]

Oh, and you, you are like so much deeper in too. So I'm actually excited that you watch that much because you'll be able to share a lot more context. But let's jump into what you found in the Twitter streets before we do that.

[Dustin]

Well, guess what, Baking goose, Guess what? I'm getting good. I've been practicing R.E.M. shout out to our friend of the show, Carrie. It's Carrie. Its K A R Y underscore on Twitter. He is literally right now going back and forth with Tank on Insta. On Twitter right now. Carrie going back and forth with Tank as we speak on Twitter right now. Yep. His last tweet just said whatever they were talking about. So here's what they were talking about. Duran Bernard. Shout out to Duran Bernard. He did an interview on the Joe Button podcast recently where he shared that Tank had gotten upset with him and. And blocked him because Tank did a singer's challenge surrounding singing the song Can We Talk by Tevin Campbell. He said that unless you can sing that song in the original key, you're not a real R B singer. Duran Bernard responded to the thing was like, brother, you. No disrespect, but you can't even sing that song in the original key, especially not the bridge. So, like. And you're a great R and B singer. So, like, that's, you know, whatever. Tank blocked him, started this whole thing. You know what I'm saying? Kerry started tweeting earlier today like, Tank is unlikable, and he has been for a minute. Some kind of way them tweets made their way back to Tank, and Carrie and Tank are going back and forth right. Right now, Carrie is calling Tank Darrell. The whole time, he's calling Tank his real name, his real first name. As they're going back and forth and. And adding memes, videos, all this. This is happening right now, real time. It is currently 2:48pm Eastern Standard Time on Tuesday, May 19, and these tweets are going back and forth as we speak right now. So this is hot off the press. This is breaking news, and I wanted to bring it to y'. All. Shout out to my brother Carrie still making waves. Unfuck with us on Twitter. True Unfuck widdable on Twitter. And this is one of the many examples of why. And that's. You know, I'm just gonna give the segment to my brother Carrie today. That's it.

[Asante]

Wow.

[Fran]

Do you guys have any announcements or anything you'd like our listeners to know before we officially jump into this week's episode?

[Dustin]

I do. I'm on the road talking shit, and I'm gonna go and do a deep dive on Cheyenne Bryant in my new show. In my new show. So make sure you come buy a ticket, come with your boy. Go to dustinrosslive.com I'm coming to city wineries in Philadelphia, St. Louis, Chicago, Boston, Nashville, Atlanta, and I think that might be it. St. Louis, Chicago. Yeah. Two shows in Atlanta. DustinRossLive.com Tickets on sale right now.

[Fran]

Come with your boy in the description box as Always.

[Dustin]

Thank you. Can't wait to see all.

[Fran]

Okay, that means we can jump into this week's episode.

[Dustin]

Welcome to the Friends.

[Fran]

So y' all know the natural hair care scene has been explosive the past, what should we say, maybe 10 plus years at this point. It started out where you maybe see one or two products. Now you have shelves and shelves and aisles and aisles of products for natural hair. For every hair type, hair length, hair porosity, there's something there. You name it. And so when Baskin Lather approached us about working with them, I was like, yes, welcome to the row, welcome to the folds. We will absolutely embrace you with open arms. Because Baskin Lather is hair care that started with family love. When a dermatologist actually misdiagnosed CEO Shayna's younger sister and said that her hair may never grow back, the family decided to take things into their own hands. Shayna and her mother researched and formulated and they created their own scalp and hair oil to stimulate growth and retain length. Today, her hair is down to her hips. And Baskin Lather's Hydrating Hair Mask combines aloe vera and avocado oil to reduce frizz. You can use it to treat dryness, detangle and redefine your curls and coils. And their stimulating scalp and hair balm nourishes and hydrates hair from the inside out with 100% natural ingredients that can penetrate hair strands without clogging pores. Y' all know that's my favorite part. And when used regularly, users have seen results in just about three months. So explore the viral bestsellers and products of healthier hair of all types from Baskin Lather. You can do that by going to baskinlather co.com and use code friend for 20% off. That's 20% off@baskandlather co.com and use Code Friend. As routines shift and summer plans begin, it's easy for learning to take a backseat. I excel, however, makes it simple to stay sharp and keep skills fresh in just a few minutes a day. Iexcel is an award winning online learning platform that helps kids truly understand what they're learning, whether they're building math confidence, strengthening reading and writing skills, or reviewing science concepts. IXL is used in 96 of the top 100 school districts in the U.S. and studies show kids who use IXL score higher on tests. And it's been proven in all 50 states. We've mentioned on the show for the past few years that we highly support ixl. They are wonderful for kids, especially with the summer coming up, I actually think this is really where this program shines because we are constantly trying to keep these kids stimulated without interfering in their fun, but also just not wanting them to come back to school in the fall completely numb, completely clueless, and just having a hard time getting back on track. Just a few minutes a day will help them stay there. So I highly support ixl, especially for those children in the summer. Make an impact on your child's learning and get IXL now. And the Friend Zone listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today at ixl.com friendzone visit ixl.com friendzone to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Happy learning.

[Dustin]

Y' all know what time it is. Your outdoor space should feel like you, but it can take a long time to get there. And I'm talking about things that I know. Fran and Asante, y' all both know that I just got my place a year ago and I have a large outdoor terrace that I'm so grateful for. But it takes a long time to improve that, to get all the things to even figure out what you need for the outdoor space. It takes a long time, right? But enter Wayfair to help you out with all that. Whether your vibe is modern, coastal, which I love, farmhouse or eclectic, Wayfair has the pieces to create an outdoor space that is uniquely yours. And I can speak about this again because I ordered several items from my rooftop from Wayfair, from an outdoor rug to a couple tables for my terrace like things to just make it feel more comfortable and homey but in an outdoorsy way. And it really worked out. And after I got my Wayfair delivery, which was seamless right from the truck to the door, everything was intact. No scratches, no bumps, no bangs. And adding those pieces gave my terrace the exact feel that I wanted, a lived in terrace feeling. So with filters, customer reviews, visual tools, all the things that can help you actually imagine how the item will look in your space, Wayfair makes it simple to narrow down what works for your style and your budget. They have everything from outdoor seating, y', all, grills, lighting and decor. Wayfair is literally your one stop shop for home installation and assembly. Services are also available so that you can create a truly seamless experience. And if you want an even faster shortcut to the good stuff, shop Wayfair verified. And these are products that their team of specialists have vetted by hand using a 10 point quality inspection. And they do it on Video. So those really help you out while you're shopping, too. It gives you a different look at the item, a different feel for it. You can compare it in size to the person speaking about it. It's just a really useful tool. And I love that about Wayfair. So get prepped for patio season. For way less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I r dot com. Wayfair. Every style. Every home.

[Fran]

Welcome to this week's episode. Episode. We are joined by Crystal. Crystal. Crystal's couch.

[Dustin]

That's right, sister.

[Crystal]

Welcome. I'm so excited to be. Oh, my God. Speaking of. My little insecurity plaque is right here. Oh, my God.

[Asante]

Congratulations to both of y'.

[Crystal]

All. Can you believe it's been 10 years?

[Fran]

I cannot.

[Dustin]

10 damn years.

[Crystal]

Really crazy. I know.

[Fran]

And I saw that Issa and Prentice have, like, their behind the scenes.

[Dustin]

I watched the first episode.

[Asante]

I know. It's good.

[Fran]

Such a great idea, right?

[Crystal]

I know. It really was so.

[Dustin]

Yes.

[Crystal]

But yes, I'm so. Thank you all for inviting me and having me on the show and giving me homework. Fran. And I said, fran did this on

[Fran]

purpose because I know what you're watching.

[Dustin]

Caterpillar.

[Crystal]

Yes.

[Asante]

You thought you was gonna dodge that bullet.

[Dustin]

Girl, you got.

[Fran]

They're most excited about you having to watch a documentary about eye color. Most excited.

[Crystal]

I said, I have been swindled because I told y' all in Atlanta, I'm not looking at that. I'm not looking at queen girl.

[Asante]

Honestly, I hate that it happened to you, but I'm glad that it happened to you, too, so. Because I was right there with you in Atlanta on the other side of like, oh, glad I ain't got to watch that. And then friend was like, are you watching for the episode? And I was like, I guess I can't not watch it for the episode. So it's happened to you. And welcome back. Or welcome here, sister.

[Crystal]

She got me to say yes first, and then she told me, and then she sent me a link of everything to watch.

[Dustin]

I was like, the negotiator. That's what I call her. Yeah, the negotiator.

[Crystal]

Pissed.

[Fran]

They said in the comments only Fran could get Crystal to watch Caterpillar.

[Crystal]

Literally. Literally. And, you know, I was pissed. I turned the speed up and everything. I checked. It's demon eyes through the whole damn movie.

[Fran]

3G Frost Gray. Crystal. 3G Frost Gray.

[Dustin]

And then that mean ass mama. What was the nigga's name that had the evil Up, Mama. Carmen. Yeah.

[Crystal]

No, David.

[Dustin]

David. David. What was his mama's name?

[Crystal]

Yep, I think her name was Carmen.

[Dustin]

Okay.

[Crystal]

Okay.

[Dustin]

Well, she need to go wherever Carmen Sandiego at, because I don't want to be able to find her.

[Crystal]

Oh, Lord.

[Fran]

But, Krystal, for those who are unfamiliar, if they happen to be living under a rock somewhere, please let you know. I mean, let's, like, what the fuck? Let's let people know about this new podcast, Chrystal's Couch, that you have been doing for the past year. Tell us more about it.

[Crystal]

Yes, well, I am. It's been. Crystal's Couch is an advice show. I was trying to think of, like, you know, I was. I'm at a point where I wanted to do other things. Especially, you know, once the pandemic hit, I really shut, like, everything off. I quit doing everything except the read. So after I wrapped up my masters, it was like, you know, I had all.

[Dustin]

Always thought with honors.

[Crystal]

Come on. Real degrees, unlike some.

[Dustin]

That's how you be in the hood. The master's hood. God damn it. You in the hood now, baby.

[Crystal]

Yes. Yes, indeed. So I was, you know, I was just trying to play around with different ideas of what to do for a solo show and eventually landed on the idea of advice because it's like, it's not what therapists do, first of all, and most importantly. But I feel like after spending so many years in therapy and going through the process of becoming a therapist or finishing my degree, it felt like a nice balance between my education and my job, which is entertainment. So.

[Fran]

Right.

[Crystal]

Been doing that for a while now. I really love my little show. We've started doing live callers, which is.

[Fran]

I love that song. It's so good.

[Crystal]

Yes. That's fun being able to talk to people, like, just interact in real time and get more information and stuff like that. But, you know, I just love it. And so when Fran was like, oh, a bunch of flowery words and you should come do it

[Dustin]

and color contest. Yes. I think this is great. Great, great.

[Crystal]

Yes. So thank you. Thank you. Crystal's Couch. It's my little baby.

[Fran]

I love it. And I think, you know, when we first started friendzone, we were answering questions when people were writing in. And we quickly stopped doing that because I felt that we were not equipped abandon answer some of the more serious questions that people have. And a lot of times, you know, because people are comfortable with you, familiar with you, they've been watching you since they were in high school. I can understand right where they will lean on you for certain guidance. And there's some things I think we can walk people through anecdotally. Right. Because we do have lived experience. But when it gets into the clinical conversations or, you know, certain mental health layers, we were like, let's call the lady.

[Dustin]

Yep. And not Cheyenne Bryant lady.

[Asante]

No, the cops on that lady.

[Dustin]

What do you think about that, Crystal? What do you think about Cheyenne Bryant

[Fran]

being a doctor that you received?

[Crystal]

I think. I think it's very obvious that she does not have a PhD. Because if she did, she would clearly say, I have a PhD. I completed my. I defended my dissertation on such and such date. This is the name of my. Everybody who's written a dissertation. They'll never forget it because it sucked all the life out of for so long. Like, they. They can immediately talk about it. They don't stumble over their words. They don't add a bunch of flowery bullshit. They can clearly say, my name is such and such. PhD. I got my degree from this place. I'm licensed in these states. You know, the fact that she dances around it and cusses you out, she's counting those honorary PhDs as having a PhD.

[Dustin]

Harvest Moon or harvest field.

[Crystal]

Literally nothing. Right.

[Dustin]

Christian University, whatever it is.

[Crystal]

You don't even have an honorary degree from a school we care about. It's some bullshit school.

[Asante]

Like, she is proof of concept.

[Fran]

But why would somebody play that game in a time like now where everything can be found out?

[Dustin]

Yep.

[Fran]

Like, people dig so deep into everything you do and say and represent. I feel like that's a very dangerous game to play.

[Crystal]

Yeah, but she didn't start it. Now, you know, she's been around for a long time. She's been around since teen mom. So she's been running this Dr. Cheyenne. Yeah, she's been running this Dr. Cheyenne Bryant shit for over a decade, I believe.

[Fran]

Oh, she's had the name now that she's being brought to fire.

[Crystal]

Yes. And I mean, when you think about it, not until black women started noticing who she was did it start to fall apart. Because men are not gonna question that hard because they don't really care because they like to look at her, which makes them feel better about themselves.

[Dustin]

And what happened?

[Crystal]

Like, side chicks have all the power or whatever, and they be like, yeah, yeah, that's deep.

[Dustin]

She did an interview where she was minimizing the importance of licensure. And when she did that, of course, all the clinicians came out the woodwork. Like,

[Fran]

Dr. Raquel. Right. Who we love was not happiness.

[Crystal]

Yes. And rightfully so. Because yes, licensure does make you an agent of the state, which is a responsibility you have to wield mindfully, but it also keeps you accountable. It makes sure that it's an avenue for the client, for the patient to be able to hold this person accountable to ensure that they are receiving their continued education credits. But more importantly, that if something goes wrong, if they do something unethical or illegal, that there are channels you can go through to. Yes, yes. Because therapists are in a position of power. And if Cheyenne Bryant had completed her education, she would notice that you cannot take that. You are, you know, like, I got my control over Debo. You know, it don't go that. It don't go that far. But, you know, therapists have that influence over you. So it is a position that you really should not take lightly. And that's why licensure is so important. That's why I tell people all the time, I finished my degree. I have not gone through the process of licensure. That's another thing she said, oh, I don't want to do it because insurance and blah, blah, blah, Bitch. It's hard to get licensed. It's another two, three years minimum after graduation. Like in New York, you have to do really thousand hours. Yes.

[Fran]

And what do you have to do in those two to three years?

[Crystal]

So in New York you have to do. Yes. You have to do 1500 hours while you're in grad school. And none of that counts towards the 3,000 after you finish. Not one hour counts. Yes. And so I think, I think maybe it's either split 50, 50, where half of it is admin stuff and the other half is actual clinical practice, or Maybe it's like 2000 clinical and 1000 admin type stuff. But regardless, like, that is a full time. If you went full time, it would take you a minimum of two years to complete those hours. So it is. Licensure is a whole other beast. There's exams you have to pass. It's expensive. So I. I'm not surprised she isn't licensed because that's work. And I don't think she's done very

[Dustin]

much work at Verse Apparent. Allegedly. Also, there's a trust piece here. The public trust being compromised. Because where else is trust more important or valuable than the relationship between a therapist and client? I haven't been able to trust you, to tell you my most literally feelings and thoughts and shit. And when you're already lying about your qualifications to be there. That is. That is a really big deal. That's A bad, bad thing to do.

[Fran]

It's harmful.

[Crystal]

Yeah, it is. And she. She said something in one of these interviews about all of her sessions have been televised. That's another huge red flag. Like, these podcast interviews are not therapy sessions, you weird, weird woman. That's not a therapy session. That's a podcast interview. And if you're saying all of your sessions have been televised, that means you've never actually had a session because you've never worked with anybody for real like you.

[Fran]

So she's counting. Like Shay Shay.

[Crystal]

She counting Club Shay Shay and whatever she sat up there and did with Cam Newton as.

[Fran]

Mm. Okay.

[Crystal]

As if one podcast interview constitutes a therapeutic session. It does not. And even if it did, one is not enough.

[Dustin]

With her talking Dr. Brian necklace with that doc. I said, you know, Fury called me, and we. This was years ago when she was on Basketball Wives. Fury called me and was like, you seen that necklace? And we laughed on the phone for, like, 90 seconds straight, like, when she was on Basketball Wives.

[Asante]

So, you know, it's sad, because this is why we need you here today, Crystal, because it's predatory. You know, these are the things. These are the. These people they get up there. Cheyenne Bryant, like, to your point, Destin, she's been relevant so long that she actually could have gone out. To your earlier point, Crystal, that she could have got her degree or some sort of licensure by now, but apparently she just likes the control or the platform or whatever it is. And that's sick, and that's disgusting. And it's sad because there are so many people today that are doing crazy shit and following people like that.

[Crystal]

Scamming is easier than school.

[Dustin]

We can get off her.

[Fran]

And I was gonna say that she probably doesn't feel she needs it because she has the platform, which is most people's goal, right? To have eyes on them. Lots of eyes on them. So what?

[Asante]

Lots of eyes.

[Fran]

You know what, man? You're triggering Crystal already. But let's move on from that. Yeah.

[Crystal]

All right. She's. She's fraudulent. No, that's it. That's it. She's. You know, anybody out here charging $350 to meet with them for 45 minutes on Zoom and doesn't have a license, a PhD or anything like y'. All. You have to be able to spot a scam when you see one.

[Fran]

And that's what I wanted to tap into today. Okay. I'm curious about the people that would sign up to speak to her for $350, right? Like, what. Why is there A type of person that is so easily susceptible to the Cheyenne Bryants, to the Nature Boys, to, you know, like, oh my God, because, right, Two body modifications in India, you know. And I think one thing that, that while we've discussed cult documentaries and all kinds of predatory documentaries and films that we watched, one thing that always comes up in our convos is, especially with Dustin, is him just being like, I don't understand how people could be so stupid. And then we go back and forth because in my mind, I'm like, you know, when you consider what they've been through, right, and the way that they move through the world, the things that they've experienced, the way that they relate to people, I can understand in a lot of ways the ways that people will fall for a lot of these predatory people. And while, yes, it makes you feel you want to shake them, but it's also understandable, right, in a lot of ways. Watching the Cult of Nature Boy, these were all young kids, easily impressionable, you know what I mean? And so we wanted to bring you in to give us some insight to why some people are so resilient when it comes to trauma, while others seem to just become even more self destructive. Like, what creates that difference in the people and how they present with trauma?

[Crystal]

Well, I think we see two different situations here. Like Nature Boy and Cheyenne Bryant are kind of in one category, whereas Old Boy with context has something totally different going on, for sure. Even in the Nature Boy documentary, which was by far the most disturbing of what Fran had me watch. You know, he said he was born in the early 80s to a crackhead in Harlem. And, you know, his parents both died early and he was in and out of foster care and all kinds of abuse. And some of the people who joined his cult had had similar backgrounds. And so sometimes you see people like, as soon as he opened his mouth, Nature Boy, I said, oh, that's a Harlem scammer. Like, immediately, okay? I'm like, he sound like puffy and everything, like a Harlem scammer.

[Fran]

Wait a minute.

[Crystal]

But some people take their pain and they make it everybody else's problem. Other people internalize it and punish themselves for it. And what you'll notice in these stories of people joining cults or being more worried about personality than credentials or experience or education, is that those people tend to be particularly vulnerable for some reason. Or in the case of some of the men who are really obsessed with Cheyenne Bryant, they may feel like she is validating part of their manhood, or this is the sort of attention or Dedication or care that they deserve from black women. You saw that in the nature boy thing too, where he was like. At first it was all, come eat fruits with me in Costa Rica. And I said, damn, he would have got Friend with that.

[Fran]

I said that.

[Crystal]

I said, oh, at first. At first it would have been down. I would have said, oh, wait a minute. He was in a yurt in Costa

[Fran]

Rica with the philosophy.

[Dustin]

Friend did say. I mean, the idea was, I was

[Fran]

like, friend, conceptually he had me, but he just didn't follow through.

[Crystal]

You know what I mean? No, he would have lost you once you had to turn over your wallet and everything when you got there. Friend would have been like, okay, I'm going home.

[Dustin]

Friend wouldn't have bought that damn foosball tape. What did he buy?

[Crystal]

Yes. When they went and bought a ping

[Dustin]

pong table with that boy.

[Fran]

When that boy left after that, that

[Crystal]

white man said, I'm going home.

[Dustin]

Once the motherfucking police got involved that white boy. Cause all he wanted to do was have a black friend. Anyway. Let's keep it real. He just knows the black homeboy. He didn't feel like a brother, but back to let me make my own.

[Crystal]

He wanted to eat clean and work out.

[Dustin]

These nature boy niggas, they just did not want to get that, get up off their asses and go to work every day. They had whatever their issues were that were going on in America. I, Crystal, I watched the four. Because of me watching the four part documentary on Hulu. I then went over to the unofficial doc on YouTube called Hood Horrors. It's like 40 episodes.

[Fran]

Hood Horrors. Look at Crystal.

[Dustin]

So I'm like 23 in.

[Asante]

Everybody's been talking about it. Everybody that watched this, they were in our comments saying, oh, y' all gotta go watch that.

[Fran]

Y' all didn't scratch the surface.

[Dustin]

It is such a deeper dive. There are so many.

[Crystal]

Bad enough.

[Dustin]

Oh my God, Crystal, they were over there. This is. I'm gonna show you. I'm show you why my rest. My view on this is sometimes what Franz stated earlier, like, how could you be so dumb? Right? Here's an example. Now you. You flee to the arms of this cult leader because you're tired of the very real awful things that we have to contend with as life is in life as a black American, right? So you go over there to that idea of escaping all of the terror and horror and stuff. A promise of natural living, spiritual enlightenment, you know what I'm saying? Community, purpose, community. All those things. Them was over in Costa Rica, okay? In the jungle, shitting in the backyard and doing. You doing Instagram lives, Crystal. Making up songs, beatboxing, talking about, I need a big booty vegan girl. A big booty vegan girl. And twerking in the cameras and shit. Just dancing and smiling and rubbing titties and shit. They were over there playing, literally playing around. There was no study going on. There was no.

[Fran]

That's what I was saying. I never understood in his lives, what was it that he was saying.

[Asante]

There was no teaching.

[Fran]

People feel so connected.

[Dustin]

Just lamb. Lasting and berating and. And. And sexually charged flirting and. And. And sexual deviancy. It was horrible. Horrible. And I don't know what the. That's got to do with God. You know what I'm saying? That's where my. I would have looked at y' all like, this ain't got to do with God, y', all. And this ain't God. We're out of here.

[Crystal]

Well, if you'll notice, none of those people were particularly educated. I think a few of them maybe had started college and dropped out. But they all came from backgrounds where they talked about, you know, I come from the hood. Life is hard. Family life was rough. Like, it. When people are vulnerable and they've been through a lot of shit, they are looking for something that makes sense, that feels like home, that feels like unconditional love or understanding. And Lainey, she know it's bullshit.

[Dustin]

She know it's bullshit.

[Crystal]

She's like, damn, it's full of shit. I seen it too.

[Asante]

Yeah.

[Crystal]

And so this is the appeal when you see, especially at first in Costa Rica, where it's like, it's all love. Brothers and sisters rubbing mango on each other's titties. I said, yeah, me and Fran would have been there.

[Fran]

We would have been there.

[Crystal]

Yes. And that's how they. You know, that's how they draw you in, because you're getting this sense of something that you've never had before. It feels good. It feels right. You're having a good time. So when they switch up and something fucked up happens, your brain is like, oh, no, I did something wrong. Let me correct my behavior so that we can go back to how it was before. You don't register that something's wrong with that person, that you've been deceived or lied to or whatever. You have. You. You are almost always in a place where you're blaming yourself for this person, you know, turning abusive or whatever on you. So you. You don't see people who come from happy families with emotionally mature Backgrounds going off to, you know, join a cult in Hawaii, like, they just don't do that. They.

[Dustin]

You know, what about the white girls who are secure?

[Crystal]

You see how. You see how that white girl's family got her ass the fuck up out of her?

[Dustin]

Sprung into action.

[Asante]

Sprung into action. As soon as they got out of the way.

[Fran]

Not.

[Asante]

Yeah, as soon as they got eyes on her, they placed every call they could until they got.

[Dustin]

And what do DeRay Mckesson say? Watch Whiteness work. Because when I tell you, the. Called their white vengers and assembled them and got that media. Use that media. Okay. Justin Trudeau's Fires. You know what? Y' all gotta go get her. No, but.

[Asante]

But

[Dustin]

damn, I lost my point. Oh. Even the one who grew up in a very structured, organized religious environment, right? Where behavior was different from societal and cultural norms, you know what I'm saying? And viewed as odd or whatever, there were certain elements that I knew just instinctually, intuitively I knew. This doesn't make any sense. And I'm not going to continue this. You know what I'm saying? And so I think that the lack of sustainability for the whole model of the nature of the. What was it called? Nigga Nation.

[Fran]

Carbon. What was it called?

[Crystal]

Carbonation.

[Dustin]

That couldn't have been carbonation. At first.

[Crystal]

It was melanation and then carbonation.

[Dustin]

Yeah. Melanie Nation. So, like. Yeah. Carbonations. So carnation.

[Fran]

No.

[Dustin]

Okay. Well, anyway, there was no sustainability for the model that they were operating. Operating under. They're moving from pillar to post.

[Asante]

What about the pots?

[Dustin]

Exactly. You know what I'm saying?

[Fran]

Well, there was no model. And that's the part that I like. Okay, I want to put a pin really quick on what Crystal is saying about when things switched. Right. Because the first part of it I can understand. These are young kids they're seeing. You know, this was during quarantine, and not even quarantine was a little before that, Were there? Yeah, the George Floyd. And they were posting these videos with more frequency on Facebook, on Twitter. I mean, you couldn't get on social media without seeing someone being shot and killed at some point. It was like every week. So these young kids are like, you know, they can't get jobs even if you do go to school. There's no guarantee that that's going to position you for any type of upward mobility, especially if you're already coming from the hood. So there's just a lot of pressure.

[Dustin]

So it's like, why even give a fuck? You know?

[Fran]

So I understand them seeing this man with Saying, come here. You belong in the sun. Your mother belongs. To be nourished. Yes.

[Dustin]

Come, be, must.

[Fran]

So that part I get. But where's the part where when he becomes abusive and rigid and crystal, you're saying that the people internalize that as if they're doing something wrong to make him become that way. Why is that? Like, why did they internalize it as opposed to saying, yo, this motherfucker's crazy. I'm getting out of here.

[Asante]

Can I also offer something before you answer that? Yeah, it's just. I just want to bring up Honey Eyes, too, Right. Because you said something very interesting earlier about all of their different backgrounds. I thought his was interesting because he. He had, like, a military background, and he still chose to join this cult because he said it gave him a sense of purpose. To your point here, friend, or to where you're about to go here, friend, I thought it was interesting that Honey Eyes, because I can't remember what his actual name was because we keep Aaron.

[Fran]

It was Aaron. And yeah.

[Asante]

So Aaron. He decided to. When he was commenting on the abuse of Velvet, I found it interesting him trying to say that, oh, you know, we were looking at it as he was disciplining her, and, you know, why won't she stop doing the wrong thing? And I just wanted to offer that moment in there because I always think about that, too. Like, to your point, in front of the question that you're asking, like, why did these people decide that what this man said was right? And why did anything in them say, like, hey, you know, she is obviously like, there's something else going on here, but they all just put him on that pedestal.

[Crystal]

Yeah. So this is. This is a tactic that narcissists. I don't obviously don't know this nature boy, Elijah or whatever his name is, but, I mean, this is pretty textbook. I feel comfortable calling this narcissistic behavior. And it is a common psychological tactic to get you to blame yourself. Like, if you notice in the videos beforehand, he sets them up for being abused. He tells them before they even get there, you're gonna have to separate from your family. I'm your family now. You're gonna have to come over here. You're gonna have to leave those Western ways and telling the men, like, oh, these black women, they've been primed to serve the white man, and we have to beat the masculinity that the Western world is teaching them out of them. He's saying all this on inst. Before they even book flights.

[Fran]

Right.

[Crystal]

And something about that Sense of community, that sense of belonging is, is so appealing to people who do not have it. And I think we really have to understand the importance of feeling like you belong somewhere, that you have a community. If you feel ostracized from the people who were supposed to love and accept you from the beginning, you will go find that somewhere else. And that may be somewhere healthy or helpful, and it may not, but you will go searching for that. We as humans are hardwired for connection, being separated from the group. Historically, evolution, in an evolutionary sense, it meant danger. If you were not with the group, you were more susceptible to being hunted or killed or, or dying of sickness or whatever else. And so we have, we. We have evolved to need one another. And if you are rejected by the people who were supposed to take care of you, or if you feel like you've been rejected by this society, which a lot of young people of all races, but especially young black people do, then you will go find that in somebody who is, you know, six two with abs, eating grapes under a waterfall and telling you how beautiful life is. And then, you know, everybody's alive all the time and they're all talking about how fucking great it is. You know, it looks amazing. They are selling this idea of a utopia because that will pull you in. And people who have anchors somewhere else in their lives will not. They won't, you know, give up everything, block the family and book a one way ride because you're anchored somewhere else. But if you're not, you're far more susceptible to that. And being abused changes your brain.

[Fran]

And Tru did say that true change, true says a lot of why they wouldn't speak up or advocate or, you know, step in is because you would be pushed out of the group. You'd be ostracized. So I can see how that leans into what you're saying about the biological aspects of even trying to fit in. Because that was really frustrating. Like you're seeing this man hit these women.

[Crystal]

Yeah.

[Fran]

And even the women having hit. Right. Hit each other. And just this very abusive turn of events that it's like, how did y' all go from the waterfall?

[Crystal]

Right.

[Fran]

So now he's calling himself chief and saying all the women have to sleep with me and trigger warning. You know, the sexual abuse that was also mentioned with the woman that was the virgin. I mean, that's the part where I was like, it's, it's a bit of a struggle for me to understand how people will allow that level of mistreatment.

[Dustin]

The introduction of sex Sex into anything that is based on religion for me or spiritual or spirituality. Yeah, for me. Spiritual practice for me then I got nothing to do with. Now you do feel like you are in heaven when you bust.

[Crystal]

Yeah.

[Dustin]

But that does not that there's anything that there's a connection, you know what I'm saying, between sex and God. And I'm joking. But to me that is the first red flag any, any inclusion of sexual anything in religion. Like this, this is, this is wrong. And that's how you know the fact that he was trying to fuck them and have them have sex with each other, pushing and pressuring them to do sexual stuff, that's how you know it's not right. And so I just struggle with. Thankfully too, I'm happy that I don't understand it easily. Right. I struggle with that one. Understanding how people progress beyond that. That first point of him introducing that kind of when I'm over here, like I said, seeking spiritual enlightenment and peace, I don't have nothing to do with. And you trying to me feels wrong because you're the leader of this whole. So like that, that feels like you're a predator. I don't know and I know it's

[Asante]

not that simple happening to you.

[Crystal]

You know, they don't start off like that. He doesn't start off on Instagram saying, hey, come down here and be part of my set sex cult. And I'm gonna call the women and tell the niggas to, you know, guzzle my cum or whatever. He doesn't start off like that because nobody would go down there and do it at first. It's very much this. The more melanin you have, you know, you've been ostracized for your black skin. Come down here and be celebrated. You're one of God's chosen people. Like shit. Where I'm like, okay, I can see how it worked from the beginning.

[Asante]

I could.

[Crystal]

Absolutely can. Yes. Because once you get in there, like you said, some people do leave. Like that white boy, when shit went down with the police, he said, oh,

[Fran]

actually I'm going, I've had enough.

[Dustin]

You know, got right, right real fast.

[Crystal]

Right, right. But some people, the, the, the abusers tactics have worked at that point. Because I think that girl Velvet had been there like maybe a year or two before he started like beating on her really bad and had her separate from the other guy and all this. And you start to think, okay, so that, that first person that I met, that's the true personality. Something in me triggered a change in his Behavior. And when she was being beaten, even the other women were like. My first thought was, well, what the hell does she do? She must be. She's behaving very ungodly. Like they really do. You believe in the power of this person. And you just. You become under their control. You are not thinking with a rational mind.

[Dustin]

Well, how come when y' all turned your backs on me, Fran and Crystal, during COVID And would not allow me.

[Crystal]

Correct. And I would do it again.

[Dustin]

Go to Costa Rica. So I want to know why.

[Crystal]

You probably did.

[Dustin]

That's why you wouldn't let me come over.

[Fran]

You went to Atlanta.

[Crystal]

You went every damn where else I remember.

[Dustin]

Look, go ahead, go ahead. Because I was going to derail this. Go ahead, ahead.

[Crystal]

Yeah, because you was going to be silly.

[Fran]

I was going to say also, is it a lack of trust in your own decision making. And your own ability to understand what you're experiencing? I know as. Speaking personally, when I was younger, a lot of the issues I had was because I felt like my internal compass on life was distorted because of how much I had been through. There was a lot of things I was experiencing that I wasn't sure if I should be in this position. Is this a good thing? Is this a bad thing? You know, like, even when Tru was saying, oh, he had to beat, you know, the masculinity. I remember being with someone that used to talk to me about that. Oh, the reason your life is the way it is is because you act like this. Is because you move through the world like this. And there was a part of me that was. Would sit there and be like, let me think about this. And I hated that I didn't have an internal.

[Dustin]

Yeah.

[Fran]

You know, like guidance. Or even if you have what I would assume, parents that. That position you differently. You could talk to them about these things. Or you hear their voices in a way that would tell you, like, hey, this might not be the smartest thing. And so I want. Like, I was trying to think, is that what was happening where these kids also let me stop calling them kids because they were also adults? But. But was it because I don't want to infantilize their decision making? But is it that. Is it also this idea that they just didn't trust what was real or wasn't? You know what I mean?

[Crystal]

I'm sure that's true for a lot of them. I would not be surprised if everybody who stayed in it for the long haul. Who was there in Hawaii and all that. I would not be surprised if they Went through some kind of trauma in their childhoods. Sexual abuse, physical abuse, financial insecurity.

[Fran]

You'd have to. Right. It's like, how else did you end up here?

[Crystal]

Almost certainly. I mean, just like Nature Boy himself. And part of the issue is that when we go through hard things in childhood and we're being raised by people who also don't know what they're doing, then we can be shut off from our feelings, cut off from our feelings, not allowed to feel however we feel, or not allowed to express it, or if you do express it, you're not cared for in the way you should be. Nobody is teaching you how to deal with hard feelings. Nobody's teaching you how to cope. And so you just kind of end up slapping a bunch of Band Aids on it and moving on and trying to do better. And, you know, maybe I need to do this and that. Like, so many of us learn to blame ourselves in childhood and without somebody stepping in to help with that. Like, I think one of them in. In Caterpillar, one of the people who got their eyes done, that lady was like, you know, I've been through sexual abuse and all that. What was I gonna do? Talk to a therapist about it? And I'm thinking, yeah, actually.

[Fran]

Right, right.

[Dustin]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

[Fran]

But truly, that was such a foreign concept. Yeah.

[Crystal]

Yes. And another thing, the culture of the Nature Boy cult, which, I mean, the way he just flat out called it a cult was so crazy.

[Fran]

Right.

[Dustin]

Like, so you just don't give a fuck at this point. Like, you want the attention that comes with that. That's what that was.

[Crystal]

Yeah. Hopping around from country to country. He was, you know, staying out of the US on purpose and. But the culture was violence. The culture was rape. That one girl who was like, I didn't even know that this was rape because this is just how women are treated here. It's like, people don't know what's wrong if they don't have somebody else to show or tell them what's wrong. If you are. If you grow. Well, Sam, they didn't grow up in this, but they were indoctrinated into it. And so if this is just how you treat women, you really have no concept for, like, oh, this is a bad thing. Not until Velvet left with her baby, where they like, oh, wait a minute. Well, if she.

[Fran]

Yeah, but Velvet also has stayed in the quote, unquote cult, let me say allegedly, she. She went on to form her own

[Dustin]

version of it and returned multiple times, was also extremely violent and instigated a Lot of the horrors that were going on in that cult. You know, the word velvet has always had such a wonderful place in my heart. It's soft and pretty. Please don't do it now is scorned. It's very crushed velvet.

[Crystal]

Don't do that.

[Fran]

But how we, how do we reconcile that? Right? Like, these were kids that were being. I keep saying kids, my Lord. These are people that are being manipulated, but then they were also compliant when it came to perpetuating the abuse. And, you know, so how do, like, how do we look at them? That's the part where I.

[Dustin]

You just hate everybody, right?

[Asante]

Because are they going, like, are they going back because of the toxic nature or are they going back because they actually enjoy some of it? Like maybe a little bit of both. Like, you just don't know.

[Crystal]

Well, it's important to distinguish between understanding why people do something and accepting it or calling it. Okay. That they do something. Yes. A reason is not an excuse. I understand how you end up abusing. Because so many people who are abused then turn around and become abusers. It's normalized in their brains for whatever reason, or they're looking for an outlet for that pain. I mean, Nature boy himself, like, if he had had a happy childhood, he would not have ended up in that position where he was beating the hell out of all those women and having mind. Wanting mind control over these people. You know, it went from let's eat fruits in the garden to take off my shoes and suck my toes and bright Christmas and I'mma wrap my dick around, you know, Right. So so many people who are abused then turn around and become abusers. You. It's a way of feeling like you can claim some sort of power or, or autonomy over yourself or it may be the only way that you feel like you can have some sort of control in your life is by dominating others. And it's, you know, it's. It's something that you have experienced for yourself. So you really do need a lot of very specific care after you've been in a situation like this. And a lot of people are not going to seek that out. It's also very expensive. It's prohibitive for a lot of people as far as access is concerned. But you need so much healing, not just from everything you went through with the cult, but everything that led you to the cult. And so I watch these documentaries and I have so much empathy, even for Nature Boy. I have empathy for how you got here. The queen inside of all of this evil demonic behavior is a Little boy who was failed from the very beginning.

[Asante]

Yeah.

[Dustin]

So his dad was in the 70s when he was born and failed from

[Crystal]

the very things his mama did.

[Fran]

Right, right. And also the. The stories he. Well, I say allegedly because this was more in the hood Horrors doc on YouTube where they were saying, you know, his experiences in foster care. And you can already imagine with that

[Crystal]

system, New York City foster care in the 80s and 90s for a black

[Fran]

boy, young black boy, like so. And it was his siblings that were in it together. Even him having to allegedly go into sex work to survive and sustain financially. Apparently he had met a quote, unquote, a pastor. It was a pastor who took him in and was helping fund his lifestyle. So you can already kind of see what's happening there. Okay. And so. So the past got him on earth. The pastor got him the barber shop. And so he just has always had to kind of finesse and lean, you know, and. And hasn't been able to just sustain as a person on his own. And so like we're saying we're seeing these patterns kind of continue because is that not what happened with the cult? He. You had to give him your money. You had to sustain him. He'd go on lives basically begging people

[Crystal]

begging to send money.

[Fran]

Right. And so it is. Yeah.

[Dustin]

You know who wasn't having it? That black lesbian, Chantel.

[Asante]

Chantel was not with this shit.

[Dustin]

She was not Chris. She was not.

[Crystal]

Chantel was not with a shit at all.

[Dustin]

The minute she even became aware of his existence, she started clicking her mouse.

[Crystal]

Yep. She started saving them videos.

[Dustin]

And thank God she did.

[Fran]

But I mean, she became the archivist for the case.

[Crystal]

She did, yeah, she really did.

[Dustin]

Queer history. It's almost really.

[Crystal]

Okay,

[Dustin]

she threw that brick. Go ahead, Marsha.

[Fran]

You know what?

[Asante]

Shout out to Chantelle with the tea, though.

[Crystal]

Shout out to Chantelle for doing the good work. But you know, people who have been abused go through a lot mentally and quite literally the brain changes. And it's not that you can't be rewired. It's not that you can't heal from those experiences, but it's very, very difficult to do. And after you've been in certain dynamics for so long, the chances of you breaking out of it mentally, even if you are physically freed mentally, the chances that you are going to just stop being that way or stop having these beliefs, stop having all of this, you know, it's an overload of self criticism. And this is part of my problem with these documentaries, is that we are the filmmakers and the streamers are taking these people who have already been through hell and subjecting them to the court of global opinion, which. Which is opening you up to everybody on every social media app calling you the dumbest bitch alive. And how did you ever fall for this shit? And you stupid hoes. I could never. And you know the people who go on and on about how they could never fall for a cult, I'm so sorry to say, y' all be the main ones. Y' all be the main ones. Let something good show up. And you will fall for that cult. You will fall for that cult. You will. You will.

[Asante]

I have two things, two additions, right? The first one is I ain't going.

[Dustin]

I'm sorry.

[Asante]

Way back when we watched Wild, Wild Country. Shout out to Fran for that.

[Dustin]

Yeah.

[Asante]

I did say at one point, Fran, I don't know if you're familiar with this. It was a Netflix documentary on an Osho. What was his name? The back one? Back one. He was a cult leader. Who was it? The 60s, 70s?

[Fran]

It was out here in Oregon.

[Dustin]

His brother was supposed to be there, too, but he didn't make it. His name is no show.

[Fran]

You know what? Dustin Ross.

[Crystal]

All I know is kick Dustin off.

[Asante]

After watching that, I was like, something about the times and black people. I feel like I would have been one of those black people that might have ended up joining Osho's cult.

[Fran]

Well, you know how I feel about Osho. I love him. I love him. And so when I saw this, I do. He's one of the first books I read when I was, like, younger and curious. And as you were saying earlier, people that have been through a lot are, like, on a quest for answers. Right. We can't reconcile what we've experienced. And we're constantly trying to figure out what is happening, why is it happening, and what, most specifically, why is it happening to me.

[Crystal]

Yes.

[Fran]

And so through that, it's this journey where you end up, you know, with people who, quote, unquote, pretend to have the answers for you. And if they talk a good talk, it's down bad at that point, you know? And I. That's why it's just. It's so dangerous, you know? But I do want to ask you, Crystal, what is it that makes certain people that have been through things more resilient, though, where they don't fall for it? Like, why are some people just appealing to me?

[Dustin]

Finally, some light on me and Fran.

[Fran]

Right?

[Asante]

Come on.

[Fran]

Well, because a lot of us do a lot, but we also are not going to fall for the grifter and we might hear it out, but we're going to be like. And there's still something that makes us not do the shit or be just more resilient and more. I don't know, more of a. No, like, what is that? What. What creates that difference in people?

[Asante]

Is it a barrier? We just protect.

[Crystal]

Well, so first of all, sometimes people are just different. Some people are, you know, more sensitive, more susceptible to shame, guilt, anxiety. They don't have safe places or other people. Like, even if you didn't have a safe home, maybe you had safe friends or other trusted adults or something like that. You had somewhere else to let these things out at. But I would venture to say that it's not necessarily a matter of resilience. It may just be that the right con hasn't found you yet.

[Fran]

Damn.

[Crystal]

But also.

[Dustin]

I know, friend.

[Fran]

Shit.

[Crystal]

It may be that the right. Yeah. That the right con hasn't found you yet or you haven't been in a position yet to where you felt particularly vulnerable to those things. But also, sometimes. Sometimes people, what they think is resilient is really just masking. So you're taking all of that pain and just. You've been through very serious pain. But instead of feeling that, processing it, healing it, working through it, you throw yourself into the gym or bodybuilding or work, partying or shopping or working or. Yeah, you throw yourself into everything else so that you don't have to deal with you. That little voice inside that creeps up at night when you buy yourself. You're like, hurry, let me take a couple shots and go to bed. Because I don't want to think, I

[Fran]

don't want to feel.

[Crystal]

I don't want to be alone. So I don't even necessarily think it's a. Well, yeah, I mean, I wasn't gonna

[Dustin]

say it, but I don't give a. I will.

[Asante]

I deal with a lot of.

[Dustin]

Yeah, I work through. I've been in intensive therapy. You know what I'm saying?

[Crystal]

Yeah.

[Dustin]

But like other. I know I still got a whole bunch of. I got to work through. And I ain't saying by, you know, Okay, I can admit it. And that's the first or second step.

[Crystal]

Well, I mean, and. And honestly, being able to talk about the things carry shame is a. Well, again, I was gonna say, miss me?

[Dustin]

You can talk to me, friend. Yeah.

[Crystal]

You know what I'm saying? Being able to talk about the things that cause you shame is a huge way to remove some of that. Some of the conditioning that may push you towards a cult like, situation. Like, let's be, let's be very clear, cults are an extreme end of this. But, you know, if you can say, well, yes, I come from, you know, a background that I'm not really proud of. I had parents who weren't equipped to take care of me. I've been in and out of foster care. I've been horribly mistreated throughout my life. And not blame yourself for that, for you to somehow go through all that and, and not be blaming yourself deep inside, that is, that's huge. Because people who do go through that, we do see chronic, pervasive, overwhelming guilt and shame and self doubt and anxiety about themselves. Like Fran said, their decision making, they don't trust themselves. They're always looking for that, that somebody, that person who made them feel safe, accepted, loved unconditionally. They're looking for that person's approval. This is why I say over and over again, having emotionally mature parents is the biggest cheat code in this life. If you get what you are supposed to get from your parents, you are starting off leagues ahead of the people who don't. And I mean, the people who don't may spend the rest of their lives trying to get to where you were born at. Yeah, it's, it's not an understatement because again, we are, we're hardwired to want community.

[Asante]

Yeah.

[Crystal]

Nobody wants, nobody is born thinking, oh, I should go through this life alone. I don't need anybody else.

[Dustin]

See, if you lied about being a doctor, you could get away with it. You convincing?

[Crystal]

Yeah, because I have an education.

[Dustin]

Yeah. Welcome to the

[Asante]

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[Fran]

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[Dustin]

Y' all know what time it is. Your outdoor space should feel like you, but it can take a long time to get there. And I'm talking about things that I know. Fran and Asante, y' all both know that I just got my place a year ago and I have a large outdoor terrace that I'm so grateful for. But it takes a long time to improve that, to get all the things to even figure out what you need for the outdoor space. It takes a long time, right? But enter Wayfair to help you out with all that. Whether your vibe is modern, coastal, which I love, farmhouse or eclectic, Wayfair has the pieces to create an outdoor space that is uniquely yours. And I can speak about this again because I ordered several items from My rooftop from Wayfair, from an outdoor rug to a couple tables for my terrace. Like things to just make it feel more comfortable and homey, but in an outdoorsy way. And it really worked out. And after I got my Wayfair delivery, which was seamless, right from the truck to the door, everything was intact. No scratches, no bumps, no bangs. And adding those pieces gave my terrace the exact feel that I wanted, a lived in terrace feeling. So with filters, customer reviews, visual tools, all the things that can help help you actually imagine how the item will look in your space. Wayfair makes it simple to narrow down what works for your style and your budget. They have everything from outdoor seating, y', all, grills, lighting and decor. Wayfair is literally your one stop shop for home. Installation and assembly services are also available so that you can create a truly seamless experience. And if you want an even faster shortcut to the good stuff, shop Wayfair Verify. And these are products that their team of specialists have vetted by hand using a 10 point quality inspection. And they do it on video. Those really help you out while you're shopping too. It gives you a different look at the item, a different feel for it. You can compare it in size to the person speaking about it. It's just a really useful tool. And I love that about Wayfair. So get prepped for patio season. For way less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W a Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home.

[Fran]

But that ties into the. Well, the point you were making about how children are raised, right. That ties into the compliance movie that I also had you watch. Because I think what most parents think, how they're doing a good job of raising a child is raising the quote, unquote, good kid that doesn't talk back, that doesn't share their emotions because you do as you're told. And what we've learned through an episode we did back in 2020 called Good Kid Mad City, which is where we were discussing this film Compliance, for those who may have missed it and our newer listeners, we were discussing how tricky that is because that Good Kid is the kid that you think was well raised. But they're the ones that end up being in these cults, right? Because they don't have, have a sense of self. They're the ones that can't trust their decision making because they've never had space, right? They've never had space to make decisions, to think for themselves like Crystal was saying even space to process emotions or even understand what emotions are coming up in the first place. And this is sort of the danger, right, Because I don't even know that parents know what a healthy kid is. If you're not, not this quote unquote good kid that just does as you're told.

[Dustin]

Look at them white Mormons flipping out. That white girl beat the hell out of her boyfriend from the, the show we watch with the blue coats. Oh, yeah, what's the name of the show? Mormon Watch.

[Asante]

Secret Lives.

[Dustin]

Prime example.

[Fran]

Because she had that pent up rage, you know, that started to spill over as she had them garments. Her life was in shambles. Right.

[Dustin]

Those were uncomfortable.

[Crystal]

Yeah. Well, I mean, it's really obedience that we're teaching and that's part of this culture and that's something we see. Even if you did have two present parents, for example, if they're deeply religious, you were probably taught to be obedient to authority figures no matter what. And that is a more pervasive belief across our society in particular. And. Well, first of all, I'm pretty sure this is based off a true story. Like, I think somebody actually did do that.

[Fran]

Yes, yes.

[Crystal]

But in grad school we, we went over several experiences. The Stanford Prison experiment, the Milgram experiment,

[Fran]

where, you know, scary times.

[Crystal]

Yes. And, and you can see it now if you're, if you're not familiar. It's basically the Milgram experiment. In particular, participants were told that like, they had to administer these electric shocks to somebody and that it would be, you know, it, it wasn't actually administered. But the number of people who would keep pressing the button, even if somebody was like showing signs of distress and then like they would, if they were told to do it, so many people would still do it. And then the Stanford Prison Experiment, some people were guards and some were prisoners and it was supposed to go for like, I don't know, I think some months and it maybe lasted like five days because the people who were the guards immediately took on this, oh, I have power over you. I'm better than you. I can be dominant over you and just begin to abuse the hell out of these people. And so you can, I mean, and you can see that right now with ice, good people are signing up to be agents of Donald Trump's zero terroristic regime. Yes, yes. And so, I mean, I can't tell you how many times in school we studied something like this where it was like, even for less extreme examples, it would be like a line of people and you give Each of them say, a red apple. And the first eight people are all in on it. The ninth person isn't. And so the first eight people are being told to say, you know, somebody's going to ask, what color is your apple? They say green. Even though they're holding a red apple. Everybody can see Everybody's apple. So 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, all say they have a green apple. The ninth person will usually then say that they have a green apple. Wow.

[Fran]

Yes.

[Dustin]

I would never do that.

[Fran]

That.

[Asante]

Right.

[Fran]

But you know what? Remember, even in Caterpillar, something as simple as David asking them, what color are you guys getting? And he wasn't getting the jade green, because they. But he said green. He was like, yeah, I was thinking that too. Remember? We were like, damn. Even that moment, it was so small, but it said so much.

[Crystal]

Yeah.

[Fran]

Because that's not the color he was getting. And these are grown men, you know, still feeling that need to belong.

[Crystal]

That's how hardwired that feeling of belonging is with us, where you can see plain as day what is the truth. And, you know, in the movie and the real events is based off of, like, anything past maybe going through that girl's purse, you should have said, okay, Officer, whatever you gonna do, just come in here and do it. Literally anything past that, but the sense of, like, I have to obey this authority figure. And he said he's talked to my boss. My boss is on the other line. My boss has cosigned all this. You're. You. You're mental. You're mentally not in a place where you are. I mean, not everybody, obviously. Dustin, I know you wouldn't. I honestly. No, you already said you wouldn't. But I also don't think at this point I would either. Like, bitch, I. I'm looking at a red apple. Are you host crazy?

[Dustin]

In what world would somebody have me on the line at McDonald's saying, hey, strip this person naked? And, yeah, I'm just not gonna do that. I would feel like.

[Fran]

But that's the part where I'm like, where's the line? You know? And for those who don't know what we're talking about, just really quickly. Compliance is a film that came out in 2012, and it was based on a true story. It's a plot that was based on the strip search phone call scams. That's what it was called. It took place in Mount Washington, Kentucky, in 2004. And although the names had been changed and, you know, the business and all that, it was very closely based on a caller posing as a police officer, convincing a restaurant manager and her workers to carry out unlawful and intrusive procedures on an innocent employee. And basically, he was trolling, like, he had done this to a couple of locations. He essentially told the manager that this person had stolen something. He was the police, and he needed her to abide by the rules he was setting over the phone. So he was telling them, strip the young girl, make her jump up and down. He actually ended up pushing it even further and creating sexual abuse situations with the workers. And they were doing it. They were abiding by everything that he was saying with no question.

[Crystal]

Yes.

[Fran]

A man that they don't even know is a policeman. No.

[Crystal]

Dustin.

[Asante]

Like.

[Dustin]

Like, there needs to be some people for someone's mind to come up with something like that. You just need to be somewhere else. So let's not say die. You need to go into another time. What do y' all call it? Friend and Asante. Another.

[Fran]

Another timeline.

[Dustin]

You need to be in another timeline somewhere. Because what would even make you think come up to do something like that?

[Crystal]

Because he knows he could s somebody. Yeah.

[Fran]

And it works.

[Crystal]

People definitely have issues. Yes. And it does work.

[Dustin]

We see this.

[Crystal]

When I'm telling you, like, there have been so many studies done where, like, let's say with the example I gave before with the apples, let's say there's no pressure to conform and everybody's. Everybody's apple is hidden, or everybody says, oh, my apple's red, then that last person will tell the truth. But if. If the whole group, if the majority is going against you, it's very difficult for most people to. To speak up and say, no, that's wrong, or, I don't know what the rest of you are seeing, but my apple is red.

[Asante]

I can easily see myself being like, my apple's blue too. Like, you know, I can see myself like. Like, since we are playing the game, like I'm playing the game, like, I see people doing that versus being like, I don't know what's going on. My apple is red. Like, what's right? What's the thing?

[Crystal]

You doubt your own perception. You don't want to go against the group. You question your own judgment. You, like, I don't know, everybody else said this. Maybe I misunderstood. Like, you. You just start.

[Fran]

You.

[Crystal]

Your brain will do everything, make all these flips and bends to try to make this make sense, when the reality is simply that you are being gaslit, you are being lied to, you are being. Somebody is deliberately trying to manufacture a Different reality for you. And. And so many people are susceptible to it.

[Fran]

It.

[Crystal]

I'm not judgmental about it at all at this point because I have seen. I mean, I've literally, you know, seen so many of these experiments and projects and, you know, reviewed this so many times that I know at this point. And I may be susceptible to it, too. Maybe not to something that obvious as, you know, a red or green apple.

[Fran]

It shows up in business. I feel like I've seen it. Where I can speak to is in business. When I was on YouTube, we were all assigned to a network and the managers would tell you what you need to do in order to be, you know, quote, unquote, mainstream or part of the success group. And so you had a choice, right? The. Even if I didn't feel aligned with their suggestions, I saw a lot of my peers succumb to their suggestions because they're like, well, if we're gonna do this, and they're the managers, they know better than we do, as opposed to that inner knowing of. But this isn't who I am. I don't want to do this type of content. You know, I realized that it's hard for a lot of people to just fall in line and say, no, I'm actually not interested. Especially if someone's telling you you're not going to be successful if you don't do X, Y and Z, Right?

[Dustin]

I think so. And I think that my. I think I have a unique POV on this because being ostracized for being different, I felt that on so many different levels as a child. Back to what Crystal was talking about, your childhood, right? So growing up in that religion, being gay, that's two totally different levels of boom. I'm different. Boom. I'm different on top of that, and I'm boom. You know what I'm saying? All these fucking things. And so, because very early on I had to be okay with that, that I think that I'm less inclined to give a. About whether or not, you know what I'm saying? I'm a part of the thing. I see what you're saying in my own way. You know what I mean?

[Crystal]

I agree. Yes, we share that experience. I think I got very comfortable being on the outside from a young age. And so was like, oh, yeah, don't nobody with me. That's cool. That's cool. Y', all, too.

[Dustin]

Which ain't healthy, but it's real. That's how. That's.

[Crystal]

It's not right. And that's where I would say Some of this has been. I have simply been very fortunate to come across good people for the most part. I have good friends and I have been able to cultivate a family like experience for me with people who pour into me, who see the good in me, who aren't trying to exploit me or manipulate me. I've been very fortunate in that regard because I could have easily felt ostracized and, and pushed away and fell in with the absolute wrong and God only knows what my life would look like at this point. So some of it is just. I was fortunate enough to come across good people who were maybe also hurting, but good hearted, you know, didn't want to, didn't feel like they needed to alleviate their pain by hurting others.

[Asante]

Wow.

[Crystal]

And, and, and so we've all had the opportunity to grow in that way. You know, none of us are who we were 13, 14 years ago ago. We've all had the opportunity to grow. But you know, that has been a huge, I don't like to say blessing, but that's been a huge benefit and privilege. That was very much happenstance. You know, there's no reason that it happened to me and it didn't happen to, you know, Velvet like right. There's no right explanation for that.

[Fran]

You know. Yeah. That's the part I try to reconcile with. And it's hard because you're not going to get an answer. But why do some people, they become more self destructive because they continue to call in or, you know, be surrounded by these predatory people. And then we have situations like us where we created this family of friends and we pour into each other, we love each other, we've all been through so much shit, but none of us are perpetuating any of that violence or abuse towards each other in any capacity. And it's hard to reconcile that. Right. Because you're like, why does that happen to some people and just not happen for others.

[Crystal]

Yeah, I mean, you know, that is. Oof. You really said a word there.

[Dustin]

And

[Fran]

sad.

[Crystal]

Lord, I'm trying to really. It is, it is, it's heartbreaking because so much of this is just chance.

[Dustin]

Yeah, I know.

[Crystal]

Where were you born? Who were you born to? What did you have?

[Fran]

What?

[Dustin]

Cause that's where you always at. And we. You know what I'm saying? Were you?

[Crystal]

Yeah.

[Asante]

Really?

[Dustin]

Look at us now. Shit.

[Crystal]

And did you get to a point, did you ever get to a point where you were able to properly recognize and name the abuse or the mistreatment? Because I've had friends who have mistreated Me, you know, all of my friends are not these great.

[Fran]

Y' all are.

[Crystal]

Right, y' all are. But I've had friends who have been abusive, who have been and said and done horrible things to me. And you really have to get to a point of like, can you even name that? Can you recognize it? Or does it mimic what you grew up with so much that you find yourself recognizing, responding in ways that are automatic? You're not. It's not even in your conscious mind where this is taking place. This is like, oh my goodness, this behavior from this person reminds me of my. You're not even thinking about it that way. Yes. But you are instantly taken back to that place. And so you become a people pleaser. Oh my God, let me fall all over myself to take care of this person and see what's wrong with them, or let me go out of my way to try to, you know, soothe them or take care of them. But you, you can, can. You can end up in a situation where you automatically do stuff like that because of what another per person will provoke in you. And not until you're able to recognize where you were originally hurt and how that hurt is still showing up in your life today will you be able to cut that off and. And have healthy boundaries for yourself.

[Dustin]

Wow.

[Fran]

Woof.

[Crystal]

Yeah, woof.

[Asante]

You Crystal. Is there such a thing as too much school girl?

[Crystal]

Damn, y' all asked me to be here.

[Dustin]

No, but that's so, so, so, so, so, so true. So true. Can you even name. Can you even identify it and name it and associate it with that, what you know it is? Can you make that decision?

[Fran]

So many people never do because look at our parents. How. What age do they, like, look at be real here? And a lot of the shit going on, you'd be like, wow, I can see that. And you can't. Like, that's wild.

[Crystal]

It's very painful. It's a painful thing to look back and say, wow, my mother facilitated my abuse, or, wow, my father took his childhood pain out on me. That's a difficult thing to say, especially because so many of us grow up blaming ourselves, especially when they didn't circle

[Fran]

back, especially if they never circled back.

[Dustin]

Especially as a black person, where you feel guilt about even being expressive about disappointment in your parents because you feel like that's disrespectful and so. And also you don't want anyone else looking at your parents negatively for these things, so you protect it, you know, and therein end up traumatizing yourself even more, you know, and, and that's the black quotient in here.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Crystal]

So. So. And to keep on going with the black part of it. So many of us were taught that our family lives were just fine, actually.

[Dustin]

And it could be worse.

[Crystal]

Oh, and it could be way worse. We could have you out here on the corner. You could be this, this, this.

[Fran]

While we all.

[Crystal]

They all say the same shit. And it's a way for them to not have to face their own pain. Because facing your pain means you also have to take accountability.

[Dustin]

There you go.

[Crystal]

For the ways you have hurt others.

[Fran]

Right.

[Crystal]

You have. You now have the responsibility to grow up and treat other people better. And that can be a very difficult pill to swallow.

[Dustin]

I pride myself on that. And I work very hard on being the type of person that if I love you, I do not mind saying I'm sorry and leaving it at that. I don't mind saying I'm sorry without an explanation. I don't mind copying to what I did. I don't mind taking it when it comes to that. You know what I'm saying? Because I feel like that's the only way you can really express to a person how much you value the relationship. Humility is the most valuable currency in that way to me. And so you have to have that. Otherwise you don't. I feel like if that's not present, you don't give a fuck. That's how I feel.

[Fran]

Or you don't have the tools to be able to have mine.

[Crystal]

There's a lot.

[Fran]

Our parents are very like the generation of our parents. I feel like when you try to have these combos with them, they will decenter you immediately.

[Crystal]

Oh yeah.

[Fran]

They can't even fit. They can't.

[Crystal]

I was about to say, look at David and Caterpillar.

[Fran]

Yes. His mom, he's talking to her about

[Crystal]

how she's, you know, what a. I could have cut. I could have cut off caterpillar at the 16 minute mark. I could have cut it off right then. As soon as she said, he said something about he wanted to get breasts. And I was like, no. I said, I see.

[Dustin]

And did you see her breasts?

[Crystal]

All this shit up.

[Dustin]

I said, look at her fucking tits. You want to talk about his?

[Crystal]

Remember?

[Fran]

She turned around and said, should I not have said that? And then he ran off crying. And she didn't even know how to comfort him in that moment.

[Crystal]

This poor baby. I understood how he got there. I felt really terrible for him because Netflix is absolutely finna exploit the fuck out of you, brother. And your. Your sense of self. Worth self esteem is already fragile as fuck.

[Asante]

Yeah.

[Crystal]

So I, I really felt for him. But at this, at the same time, it's that balance between I have empathy for you and, you know, at the end of the documentary, he was like, I would never do this. You know, gotten on YouTube talking about how I. I should have never done it. And I felt for the testimonials and all the people saying how great it was. That doctor said straight up, many times,

[Dustin]

over and over, I would not do it.

[Crystal]

This is a horrible procedure. Only God knows why y' all are here.

[Asante]

If this is cosmetic, I would not recommend this to anyone.

[Dustin]

Did you see?

[Crystal]

He told that girl, not only would I not do it, I wouldn't tell my sister to do it. I would. I like my eyes and I would learn to love her damn self.

[Dustin]

Look, he would even claim a daughter from that table immediately.

[Asante]

He wouldn't even claim a daughter to say he wouldn't have her do it. She was like, what if you had like a daughter? He's like, I don't have a daughter. Like, I should have let you know.

[Dustin]

That was a stern read right there. I don't have a daughter that would

[Asante]

have let me know.

[Dustin]

Like, he thinks you're stupid. It also, I would tell you to love yourself.

[Asante]

Mind you, that's the girl that kept her in. That's the girl that kept herself. She's the one that's gonna. I feel like she's gonna keep me until she goes blind. And she's not gonna mind. She's gonna, like, you know, probably be able to see, but at least people will still have something to pretty look at when they see me. And it's like, girl.

[Dustin]

And one of the reasons you can't see is because thing one, crystal, did you see the dye for the eye shit that was mixed up in them bowls, like hair color? Did you see that? You didn't see that?

[Fran]

No, that was the. No, that was the TikTok video I sent you. And the guy wanted the violet eyes.

[Dustin]

Well, nevermind. Yeah, that's how the dye look. I'm conflating the two. It's same brand of stupidity. And second thing, when it comes to David from Caterpillar, I did feel bad for him because a lot of his insecurities were based on his looks. And with this documentary being as popular as it was, I knew that he was gonna face a lot of of on the Internet who are going to hurt him more. I also that he was a gay man and he has a TV show, so he's Excited with the attention nonetheless. So I know he'll be fine.

[Crystal]

I'm not, I'm not entirely sure David is a gay man. I think David's gender is.

[Asante]

I thought he was, Wasn't he dating

[Dustin]

the guy or a gay person? Oh, well, I guess I wouldn't make him gay.

[Crystal]

I think he's, I think, I think David is queer at his, at David's truest self. David has a more queer gender identity that he was absolutely not allowed to explore. And even with his mama being like, right?

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Crystal]

And even with his mama being like, well, I don't care about him being gay, but you calling him all kinds of slurs and homos and all this. So like, girl, yes, you do. And then he was the only dark skinned person in a family full of Latinas, Latinos.

[Fran]

We didn't know what was going on because he was like, I'm biracial. But then I'm like, I don't know what's going on.

[Crystal]

And then he said he was black.

[Fran]

And then. Yeah, and I'm like, but his mom looked Puerto Rican. And right?

[Crystal]

I'm like, but what nigga have you ever seen with these ice blue Gatorade eyes, nigga?

[Dustin]

Like, you know which one? But I, I, I just wanted to crack a gay vanity joke. Cause he didn't open with a photo shoot, but. Oh, well, it's okay.

[Crystal]

You know, my question was, my question throughout the entire documentary was, what is surgery gonna do for you? That context wouldn't.

[Dustin]

Right, right, right.

[Fran]

And that's what I wanted to feel real about. And I wanted to ask you about the psychology of this body modification. Right? Because is it that they're trying to. Especially with the Iggy Izzy, I think her name was, the young lady that was a part of it. They are trying to run. I guess this is just some people's version of running away from this point in their life that they just don't want to. Or I guess it's like disassociating, right? Like you're just.

[Crystal]

Yeah. Again, everybody, everybody that we saw any background of, they were like, oh yeah, horrible childhood. Oh yeah, terrible.

[Fran]

All of them.

[Asante]

And they all kept saying, they all kept saying, new beginnings. Like the Jamaica. She was like, I'm gonna have a new beginning.

[Fran]

I'm gonna have a new beginning.

[Asante]

The girl at the. Yeah, they were all like, they, they were gonna have a brand new life with these new eyes, cuz. They'd wake up and see them every day as opposed to waking up and plopping them in every day.

[Fran]

You know, remember when they saw Jasmine when she was sitting on the seat with the one eye and they were like, she's gonna love you.

[Crystal]

Remember?

[Fran]

Like everywhere you go, I was like,

[Crystal]

oh my God, no. Meanwhile, if I saw you.

[Dustin]

Asante. Stop. Asante.

[Crystal]

You look like a white walker. Ah. You look like a danger. You don't seem safe.

[Dustin]

You look like you finna kill me.

[Crystal]

I procedure to takes the. It takes the soul out of your face.

[Dustin]

All them people look like they f. To murder us. Like if they look at. If you make eye contact, they gonna get you. That's what they are, vampires. And I try not to laugh and because now when they give you the background context, it makes you feel guilty for laughing at the ridiculous. Right?

[Crystal]

But it is ridiculous. Cuz like, well, accuview make hazel eyes. Why would you say haze if you want hazel eyes?

[Dustin]

Why would you say that? To put them in.

[Asante]

It really was because David was so interesting even when he was talking to his friend and how she was pointing out like, you know, obviously he didn't have any love. And she was like, you know, I. I at least have my family. They were always looking for me. They were always trying to let me know that they love me. That was removed. I hated was so true

[Fran]

that.

[Asante]

But it was.

[Crystal]

I thought that was some of the realest.

[Asante]

It was perfect context. It was perfect context because it was like she is up here. She gets to live her life and she's my. You know, to your other point, friend. She's modified her body and she gets to live as the woman that she gets. She wants to be. But then you see David go home and every time he filmed with his mom.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Asante]

So I'd want to. I don't want to say go and get new eyes too, but I'd want to go. I'd want to go off somewhere. I don't know.

[Dustin]

I would want to move.

[Asante]

Yeah. I just need to.

[Dustin]

You know.

[Crystal]

You saw that hole in the wall he found. I said, it's literally a hole in the wall.

[Fran]

No, when he told people he found a rent stabilized and then he walked in front of it. We saw a little black iron. I said, that's a problem. That's Nycha, honey.

[Dustin]

I told y'. All. Gay vanity. Can I crack my joke now? I told you.

[Crystal]

You, you whose joke you've been cracking joke

[Fran]

different. The different counselors and mental health experts that were discussing this. And they were saying with body modification, it also has a lot to do with you trying to take control back. Right. Especially if you've Dealt with any type of abuse. You know, sexual abuse. It's like your way of being like, I have control of my body or I've control of this thing. So I was trying to understand, you know, him viewing that as a way to take his power back. You know, he grew up with people telling him he was ugly. He kept saying that his family always talked about his skin color and this is his way of just, I guess, try. Yeah. Trying to find his power. But it's hard for us because they're using this as entertainment.

[Dustin]

Yeah.

[Fran]

And it's an all white production company

[Dustin]

who know that his mama.

[Crystal]

And it's a pack of brown people at this spot in India.

[Fran]

It's so hard for me.

[Crystal]

There's no way white people in there getting their eyes changed.

[Fran]

Not, not one Indian person either inside this place getting their eyes.

[Crystal]

All the Indian people are like, you are crazy.

[Asante]

They, they, they found a way. They found a way to scam as an entry point into medical tourism. I was like, look at y' all just letting these people come out here. Cuz I felt bad. I said on the original episode we did about this about culpability, about Caterpillar, excuse me, about how I felt bad for the Asian young man because I was like, does he even know what's going on? And they KE telling him he had the weaker eyes out of everybody. I was like, is this safe for him? Like they didn't even show him in the end. So I don't know what happened to him. I hope he's all right.

[Fran]

He got his eyes. Cuz I saw him on the Instagram.

[Dustin]

You can see before.

[Crystal]

You won't be able to see after

[Dustin]

what he look like, friend.

[Fran]

I mean, crazy. Come on.

[Asante]

I was about to say, did he look good?

[Crystal]

No.

[Fran]

None of them.

[Crystal]

They all look possessed.

[Asante]

They all look like.

[Crystal]

None of these eyes look good. Like they all look. Look crazy to me. But, you know, it's very common for people to use body modifications to boost their sense of self esteem, to feel better about themselves, to feel like they are more warmly received by the general public. You know, like people not getting nose jobs to get broader noses. You know, okay, they not, they not getting eye surgery to get dark brown eyes. You know, they go in for what they think is exotic. What they think will make them more appealing to the majority. And it takes a strong person to embrace being, quote, unquote, ugly. It takes a lot to say, you know what? I know that I'm not society's favorite. I know I don't look the way Y' all want me to, but I don't give a fuck. You can kiss my ass because I love me. You know, These people don't. They do not have that sense of right.

[Asante]

David wasn't taught to love me.

[Crystal]

That's why I was like, he was not. And.

[Fran]

And it's not the message.

[Crystal]

You know, he had deceived. He had the trans home girl who was like, yeah. I mean, you know, life was hard or whatever, but my people still loved me. Yours didn't. That's why you went around here now with green eyes and I get to be a bad bitch. And it was like, God damn.

[Asante]

Cause that's how it hit. And it was severely unfortunate, but it was.

[Crystal]

It's true. What'd I just tell y' all about having a loving family, like, right.

[Fran]

Someone will hold your hand through your decision making, baby.

[Dustin]

I love a shocking quote from a trans person.

[Asante]

I mean, it's all.

[Dustin]

It always just adds the perfect spice to whatever it is we're cooking.

[Asante]

Because the way the caterpillars started off, it was crazy that they showed David watching that YouTube video, and he was, like, going through. But it was him going through or like. Because I feel like the eyes was one part of. It was like, going through, like, the most interesting parts of a person. And then they got to the eyes, and it was like, well, why did we land on the eyes? Like, that's why I just.

[Dustin]

I would have got an ass. You know what I'm saying? I don't know.

[Asante]

Something more valuable.

[Crystal]

And people get bbls every day.

[Dustin]

Yeah.

[Crystal]

And, you know, and those are just one of the most dangerous surgeries you can get. And still people risk their lives every day for it. And as far as, like, bodily autonomy goes, yes, it's your body. It's your decision, 100%. But I do think if you're willing to risk your life for it, there is something there that needs to be exam damage.

[Dustin]

I agree.

[Asante]

Right.

[Crystal]

If you're willing to risk your sense of sight for jade green eyes that aren't actually jade green or some weird snotty.

[Fran]

That's the part that. What color wheel are they using?

[Crystal]

Y' all can't get, like, a darker hazel or something? Where's the light brown? Anything they got.

[Asante]

You can't mix something.

[Dustin]

I can get a hombre up in here looking like y'.

[Fran]

All.

[Dustin]

Y' all in cats.

[Crystal]

Yeah. When you're willing. When you're willing to not wake up from that surgery table or lose permanent. A permanent sense.

[Asante]

Right.

[Crystal]

And for whatever advantage you might like, they all were just like, yeah, people are going to be nicer. It's going to be a. A new life for me. No, it isn't. It's the color of your eyes. Nothing is fundamentally going to change because of this. And so the fact that you're willing to risk something so important for that, you know, therapy needs to be so much more accessible.

[Fran]

I remember the spiritual practitioner told her that. She was like, you're just changing the outside, but that inside is going to be right there when you get back.

[Crystal]

And she was like, oh, well, I've already done so much work on the inside. Not enough.

[Dustin]

Because you're here, sweetheart. No, you haven't.

[Crystal]

Because you're here. Because you're here. I mean, David had like, what, four or five months before the optometrist was like, you need to take these shits out asap.

[Asante]

It's not funny. It's just the way it's.

[Crystal]

But you know what?

[Fran]

I was proud of him, too, for, like, doing it.

[Crystal]

Yes.

[Fran]

He was like, he's out. Cause he could have been like, no, this is who I am now. This marks a before and after of my life, and I'm not taking them out. Like, the young girl was like, not having it.

[Dustin]

You don't get them cheering. She wasn't having trouble yet, was she?

[Fran]

No, not at that point. But I was keeping them in if

[Crystal]

you weren't having problems.

[Fran]

But I saw the director when they were. I think they were at some festival. She was saying that a lot of the people have become blind since because they did not. She didn't mention names, but, you know, she said they didn't have the same outcome as David because they did not heed the advice of the doctors.

[Crystal]

Sorry, Asante, go ahead.

[Asante]

I was gonna ask the director clarify who paid for David to have those removed because. Shout out to. Out to them. Because I felt bad watching it, watching David panic as I was watching mention that in my mind, I was like, let him go blind.

[Crystal]

Like, he said something about insurance. Remember he told his mom, I have to come to Florida to get him

[Fran]

taken out because he had, like, Medicaid, I think.

[Crystal]

So he probably had some kind of state insurance right now.

[Asante]

I was worried that production was going to let him do that, but production

[Crystal]

not paying for that.

[Dustin]

They're the ones who should have.

[Fran]

Okay?

[Crystal]

They absolutely would have. But the way the optometrists were like, oh, God, another one of these bio.

[Fran]

You saw, he told him. He was like, I've had many of these cases and I tell y' all the same thing.

[Crystal]

And I just wish y' all would get context.

[Asante]

He's like. He's like, it's usually strippers. No, I'm just playing.

[Fran]

No, but, Crystal, for people listening from a clinical perspective, if they are having trouble trusting their decision making or they don't have the friends around them that they can kind of bounce off some of their emotions or ideas or thoughts. You know what? Right. The anchors that you spoke of, exactly what does one do? What. What's a step they can take? Because this could be anybody. Like, you said, such a chance. These are all chance situations.

[Dustin]

You said it just takes the right kind.

[Fran]

Well, that one hit me.

[Crystal]

It's hard.

[Fran]

Right? Right.

[Crystal]

It just takes the right con. I mean, look at how many people fell for, like, Covid propaganda. Now they taking horse pills and. Oh, yeah, you know, that whole end of the world thing. Remember that Y2K eight months ago. Oh, everybody was like, oh, the world is spent. Well, yes, but. Oh, the rapture recently, like a year ago. Yes. Where they were like, oh, Jesus is coming back on this day.

[Fran]

And it's.

[Crystal]

Yes, but the number of people who fall for it.

[Fran]

Yeah. People we love. Oh, right.

[Dustin]

Oh, yeah, that was an Internet joke.

[Crystal]

That was more of a social media. I got the power.

[Dustin]

I was ready. I was gonna start doing people like this.

[Fran]

You know what?

[Crystal]

Yeah.

[Asante]

Sorry. Continue, Crystal. My bad.

[Crystal]

Well, I mean, it's. It's a good question that Fran is asking, and it's one that's challenging for me to answer because. Because I'm not sure where you go if you have no one. Like, yeah, I would hope that if you're. If you are in a place where you're hearing this message and a lot of this is resonating with you, that you would say, let me take a step back and just really evaluate, like, what's going on in my life. Like, what feels right, what doesn't. And sometimes you can start with, like, what is most obviously going wrong. Like, for me, I started therapy seven, eight years ago because a relationship I was in ended in domestic abuse, as y' all know. And so that was my presenting problem. I had no idea how much shit was underneath the surface, you know, But I started with what was Autumn, what was obviously wrong to me, which was this person put their hands on me. So, I mean, if you're. If you're looking for. If you're hearing this and you're thinking, damn, maybe I need to talk to somebody, you can look at what's going on in your life, what feels the most obviously Wrong. And go talk to a therapist about that. But I don't know. It's hard because it just, it feels like if you. Without community, it is so hard to get anything done. It's hard to maintain as a human being. It's hard to feel like you can trust yourself. And so, so if you need help with trusting yourself, with trusting your own decisions, I would say start with making very small, very doable promises to yourself. Things that are almost impossible for you to break. The smallest challenges, like I am going to change all my pillowcases tonight before I go to bed. Or I'm going to make sure I floss my teeth after I take a shower. Like something small that is very, very doable for you so that it's easier for you to keep that promise. And then you just build on that. Like maybe you're not really. Don't try to go from zero to a hundred. That's how you get burnt out, frustrated, you give up. Start extremely small. Start with things that seem almost like you shouldn't even have to promise this to yourself because it's something you would do anyway. But see, notice how you feel when you accomplish something that you told yourself you were gonna do do and build on that from there. But this is why, I mean, this is part of what I'm doing with Crystal's couch. Not really because it's not therapy. But part of what I'm doing is when I talk to people, I'm trying to get them to see like things that maybe you don't see are affecting your thought processes or affecting your, your sense of self worth. They're affecting the way you feel about yourself, which then you know, your thoughts influence your feelings, influence your behaviors. And so if we can start right there with what you're thinking about yourself, it's not automatic and it feels very corny to like go from dragging yourself to being like, you know what, bitch, you tried your best and yes, we fucked up, but we're only human. It feels corny and fake at first, but the more you do it, the

[Dustin]

easier it gets and the better it feels.

[Crystal]

Yes. And that changes the way you feel about yourself. It changes the way you think about yourself and that influences your behavior. Years you're able to take better care of yourself, you're able to be a better friend. You show up better. But it starts, it starts with the thoughts. It starts with how you talk to yourself.

[Asante]

Do the Mary Jane post.

[Fran]

Its right.

[Asante]

Me and Mary Jane.

[Crystal]

Yes, affirmations are great. You know, they help me see affirmations are great.

[Dustin]

You see, I started thinking about Loretta Darwine's character.

[Crystal]

But anyway, you would, you would.

[Dustin]

That was.

[Crystal]

It's a complicated question because it's like, damn, what do you do?

[Fran]

And I think the way society is designed now, most of the questions we received to ask you have to do with that, with people. You know, think about it. Everyone's on the computer. Most people are not hanging out anymore. Most people are not going outside to see their friends, kids, you know, there's just, it's a very different time and most people are bed rotting, doom scrolling and have just become very isolated and they've admittedly not even trying to create community. But then this happens where you don't have any anchors, you don't have anyone to, you know, process with. And then you're lonely and then it just becomes cyclical and a lot of people are asking you like, I kind of did this shit to myself, but now I don't know how to get out of it, you know, and I don't have anyone to help me get out of it.

[Crystal]

I mean it's hard because my number one response is, oh, therapy. But therapy is not accessible to everybody and it can be hard to find a good thing. All therapists are not created equal, right? You might run into a Cheyenne Bryant out here, masquerade as a real mental health provider, right? And this bitch over here telling you to give her a hug and, and, and, and embrace being side because they have all the power, right? It's like, oh my God.

[Fran]

So, right.

[Dustin]

Name plate necklace.

[Crystal]

Hey, yeah, diamond name plate necklace.

[Asante]

I think, I think you're all giving great points though, right? Like, you know, friend, you're like, you're my golf friend now. Like you have to find those things that make you happy. You know, my golf friend, my car, a hard friend. Like we all seek community, but I feel like we have to start with those small things, right Crystal? Like you know those affirmations and you know, re reevaluate how you feel about yourself. You know, those small wins are going to put you in a position to where it's like, all right, how do you continue to feed in yourself because you feel good about yourself? We've talked about going out and getting actual real world, real world hobbies. You know, just last week I was talking about how I want to start, I want to try to do rock climbing because friend was talking about she doing golfing. I was like, I want to get active. And so by being active I know it's going to put me in a More social position. Right? So that's where you're going to meet the people. Now back to Dustin and discernment, right? When you meet these people, all of these people, it's just going to be touch and go. You're meeting people, but not everyone has to be your anchor. So these are these places you're going to find community through hobbies. But it doesn't mean that every person has to be your friend, your family. But hopefully you find people that will lead you in some of the right directions. Just beware of the nature boys.

[Dustin]

So you got your head on, you know, Right.

[Crystal]

You gotta. You gotta pay attention to the red flags. And this doesn't mean automatically cut somebody off if they do something wrong or something that's hurtful or whatever. Give them a chance to make it right. Give them a chance to apologize and change their behavior. But if they don't, that's what. Yeah, you have to put yourself first at that point. You gotta. You gotta be stricter about who has access to you. Because when you don't value yourself, you'll submit yourself to anything. You'll subject yourself to all kinds of bullshit because you don't see the value in you, because nobody valued you. People made it seem like taking care of you was a burden or a chore or something they had to do as opposed to something they got to do as opposed to something that is work, but it's loving work. It's a celebratory thing to have you in my life. And so many people were not responsible race to feel that way about themselves.

[Asante]

Right.

[Fran]

And that's where you have to be careful too, with the people around you and what's been modeled to them, because they can also be an echo chamber. I mean, we're seeing it in. So we're watching Real Housewives of Rhode island and there's a woman named Ruler in it. Ruler King, Ruler Kingdom. And her husband is.

[Crystal]

Her name is not Ruler King.

[Asante]

It's not what it is.

[Fran]

Her name's Rula and she is in a situation where her husband continues to be unfaithful. Even like posting pictures of himself with this woman. Like, I'm talking about levels of disrespect beyond. And her friends love that her close friends are telling her to stop listening to what people are saying and trying to make her feel bad. And that if she wants to stay with him and work it out, she needs to fight for her marriage. And, you know, and it's just so interesting because she's listening to them and that to Me is what happens when you are also surrounded with people who are also. Don't trust their own decision making. And y' all are all just a religious community. No, but it's like, what are they? Where are they from? It's definitely a culture. Yeah, it's a. I think they're Syrian. Yeah. So it's definitely a cultural connection.

[Dustin]

Crystal. She does not want to concede to her marriage failing and thus looking like a failure in front of her friends. No matter how flagrantly her husband cheats, she has decided to save face and just stick it out.

[Crystal]

So for some people, there is nothing worse than getting a divorce.

[Fran]

Right? Right.

[Dustin]

Shout out to you.

[Fran]

And it's taboo in a lot of cultures, too. Right.

[Asante]

And this will be her second one.

[Crystal]

And going against your culture, your community in that way, the thought of it is very scary because that means being alone. And it all goes back to. We are hardwired to not want to go against the group. And that. That applies in so many different ways. And so the people who can do that in a healthy way, who can say the group.

[Fran]

Group.

[Crystal]

Because the group does not have my best interests in mind.

[Asante]

Right.

[Crystal]

They. I mean, shout out to them. It takes a lot of work to get there, usually. And. And those people can also have a tendency to take it too far and say, fuck everybody. So, you know, it's not. That's not always a great thing.

[Fran]

Right.

[Crystal]

They can also get to the point where. Where they're isolated because they don't trust nobody. And I can't let you get too close because I'm not gonna give you the chance to hurt me.

[Fran]

Me.

[Crystal]

So, you know, you don't want to go too far in that direction either. Pew, pew, pew. Somebody. You see, I'm, like, hit with the strays, right? So there's a. There's a healthy middle ground between being vulnerable with others, being open to new connections, but also knowing when to shut that shit down. Knowing when you're being disrespected when. When you're not being valued the way you deserve.

[Asante]

Deserve.

[Dustin]

Right.

[Fran]

Damn.

[Crystal]

That's where we'd like to be. You said you're over sharing.

[Asante]

I said also over sharing.

[Crystal]

Oh, yeah.

[Asante]

I feel like people, when they're excited to have new connections, sometimes they overshare. And then there's that. That. That risk of toxic bonding and all that. It's just like it's not what you want.

[Dustin]

Or maybe your phone call again. I ain't want to hear that. You know what I'm saying, Therapist, when you're building.

[Asante]

It's one thing, you know, when you're in it, it's another. And I say this because a lot of these conversations that we've been having over for a very long time, to be honest, because the type of show that we have. But I just think about a lot of the things I've been seeing as of late on threads. CLT threads. You know, Charlotte got its own little threads and it be popping a lot of things. Even Dustin then reported on some news out in the North Carolina thing that things that I've seen on threads, I was like, oh, well, they.

[Dustin]

Damn, that's right. I did.

[Crystal]

Okay.

[Asante]

What was the marriage, the woman, the law?

[Dustin]

The law. Oh, yeah. Somebody who. The alienation of affection.

[Asante]

Alienation of affection. Yes.

[Dustin]

Yeah, yeah, yes, yes. Okay, I did see.

[Crystal]

You can do that.

[Asante]

It was right. But a lot of people on threads, they were complaining about how Charlotte is so, like, there's, there's nothing to do or it's empty. But a lot of people have come from other places and they've openly admitted on threads as well. Like, I moved here, I want to make friends, but I don't know where to go or when I go out, I'm too shy to actually go talk to people. So I feel like giving people some sort of hope or tool to like, you know, at least you're doing like, some people ain't going outside, so, you know, those people go outside. But for the people that are going outside, giving some of those people some tools when they are outside, just encouraging people to want that, want to build that community. There are other people like you that want community, and we just don't want you overall to get trapped in any of these situations that we, we have discussed over the things that we have discussed today, which Fran has so beautifully put together for us.

[Dustin]

Yeah. Thank you, Fran. Give it up for free.

[Crystal]

You just gotta. You just gotta find that balance. But yeah, you know, go outside, find events that tailor to things you like and speak to people.

[Dustin]

I just said this earlier in the show.

[Crystal]

Say hello to people. I, I'm like, you know, I, I'm not Asante level of friendly, but. But I will go out and speak

[Fran]

like level of friendly because, you know,

[Crystal]

Asante never met a strange girl.

[Dustin]

Never, never, never.

[Asante]

What can I say?

[Crystal]

But yeah, you know, I go to the bar and speak to people. You know, I, I will go out and, and say hello. You know, I'll be at the. Okay, I. You got to find a balance between taking care of yourself and being open them.

[Dustin]

Be the Best ones that can balance. Yes, I agree.

[Asante]

I agree.

[Fran]

Thank you, Crystal. Thank you, Crystal, for, for helping and see different perspectives too. Because like we were saying, the battle we were having was like, we want to have empathy, but also you just get so frustrated with some of the decision making. But then we also know what that's like to not fully trust yourself. And I mean, there's just so many layers to it. But having your clinical perspective.

[Dustin]

Yes.

[Fran]

Or your studied perspective really matters so that we're not, you know, putting out the wrong messaging, I guess.

[Crystal]

And I mean, and well, you, you have to remember that ultimately this is being shown to you for entertainment purposes. They want you to have a snap judgment on these people and react about it that way. They do not want you to think about this critically because then it'll turn into, well, why are we putting this on television in the first place? Right. And big media don't want to hear that.

[Asante]

I will say, hey, the nature boy documentary, there was a point to where for the most of it, it did just paint the people at the former cult members as victims. Until Chantelle with the teeth towards the end, she kind of questioned one of the people in the position that they were in. And I don't want to say for obvious reasons, but I was like, well, damn, why would she say that? Which is why when everyone was like, there's that 40 part YouTube docu series on, I was like, I need to get into that. Which is why, Dustin, I feel you extra heavy on what you got to say about these people now.

[Fran]

Now.

[Asante]

There she go.

[Dustin]

Hey, l. Boogie.

[Fran]

Hi.

[Dustin]

Welcome to the Friends.

[Fran]

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[Dustin]

All right, now everybody knows how your routines change every year. In the spring, typically we overhaul our wardrobe, get all new clothes, social calendar starts filling up, we start getting invites to outdoor events, day parties, patio events, and sometimes our work priorities even shift during this time. Right? All types of things just change in the spring and some of us even change our skin and hair routines for the change in weather. Depending on where you live, you live where it's dry. Put some grease on. However, whether you're curious about affordable GLP1 options or if you're looking for smart nutrition guidance and a supportive community, Weight Watchers is gonna give you the tools to stay on track and reach your weight loss goals. Because spring isn't about starting over. It's actually about starting fresh with support that helps you keep up. Now with their Core plus program, you can get a customized plan that ships in real time based on your life and your goals. And that's no gimmicks or no fads. It's a science backed approach that's designed to support you in getting better results. And they have completely overhauled the app, y'. All. They give you the support you need to succeed all in one place, making it so easy. You can join the 63 million members who have used Weight Watchers to help support their health and weight loss journeys. Stop the guesswork and start something that works. Join Weight Watchers Core plus program for the ultimate weight loss support and better results. Go to weightwatchers.comfriendzone to get a special offer for our listeners. That's weightwatchers.com friendzone for for a special offer. Y' all know what time it is. Your outdoor space should feel like you, but it can take a long time to get there. And I'm talking about things that I know. Fran and Asante, y' all both know that I just got my place a year ago and I have a large outdoor terrace that I'm so grateful for. But it takes a long time to improve that, to get all the things to even figure out what you need for the outdoor space. It takes A long time. Right. But enter Wayfair to help you out with all that. Whether your vibe is modern, coastal, which I love, farmhouse or eclectic, Wayfair has the pieces to create an outdoor space that is uniquely yours. And I can speak about this again because I ordered several items from my rooftop from Wayfair, from an outdoor rug to a couple tables for my terrace. Like things to just make it feel more comfortable and homey, but in an outdoorsy way. And it really worked out. And after I got my Wayfair delivery, which was seamless, right from the truck to the door, everything was was intact. No scratches, no bumps, no bangs. And adding those pieces gave my terrace the exact feel that I wanted, a lived in terrace feeling. So with filters, customer reviews, visual tools, all the things that can help you actually imagine how the item will look in your space. Wayfair makes it simple to narrow down what works for your style and your budget. They have everything from outside outdoor seating, y', all, grills, lighting and decor. Wayfair is literally your one stop shop for home. Installation and assembly services are also available so that you can create a truly seamless experience. And if you want an even faster shortcut to the good stuff, shop Wayfair verified. And these are products that their team of specialists have vetted by hand using a 10 point quality inspection. And they do it on video. Those really help you out while you're shopping. Shopping too. It gives you a different look at the item, a different feel for it. You can compare it in size to the person speaking about it. It's just a really useful tool and I love that about Wayfair. So get prepped for patio season. For way less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W A Y-F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home.

[Fran]

But before we get out of here, we don't have have a ton of time. But I don't want to ignore any of the questions people send in, so I'll just do like one or two. But a lot of listeners were so excited to have a Crystal couch mashup. So we had to do Crystal's couch style listener letters, right?

[Dustin]

Are you listening, you dog mom, are you listening?

[Crystal]

Yeah, I thought we was, I thought we was wrapping up. So I said let me put her down. Let me put her

[Dustin]

you over there. Parenting and shit.

[Crystal]

All on right? Because I think we're going to hang up child.

[Fran]

So one question we got from Lauren said, my question for Crystal is how do you navigate the it gets better side of life, even though I am in a much better predicament now, I find myself still operating in survival mode. How does one adjust to life genuinely being better?

[Crystal]

Oh, it is a process.

[Fran]

Oh, God, me too. I was like, I am feeling that question.

[Crystal]

I'm in it right now. I literally just had therapy earlier today, and I told my therapist I am tired of the cycle. I'm tired of doing well for a while, and then something happens. I get triggered, I get thrown off. It takes me a while to get back on my, like. And then eventually I get back to it. And she, you know, and she gave me some. She talked to me in a way that's very specific to my experience. But I think, God, you. You kind of have to be able to take a good look at where you started and where you are now and remember that you have put in a lot of work that come on, you know, the you that is dealing right now with whatever is not the same you. Like, she. My therapist said to me, you know, know you today, right now, feeling down and feeling like things are hard. That is not the same you as five years ago. The you five years ago would have been coping with this in a totally different way. And so sometimes you need little reminders like that. But I, you know, I told her, I'm just. I'm tired of. I'm just tired of it being that way. I want to be, you know, in a place where I'm consistently doing the things that I. I want to do and that are best for me, and I'm just tired of the best back and forth. And she's like, well, you know, it's never going to be, you know, I get to this place of ultimate self care or whatever, and, and you, and you just coast there forever. Like, life happens, shit happens. We're human. And, and for me in particular, I'm working through, you know, very, very profound parental wounds. So it's not going to be something that you just snap your fingers and get over. So I do have to be able to take a step back and say, okay, I am doing much better. I'm taking well enough care of myself to make sure I'm taking care of my child. You know, I'm staying in therapy, I'm working, I'm prioritizing the things that are supposed to be prioritized. I'm not gonna always be perfect. I'm not always going to get it right. And right now especially, it feels like I've just been stuck in the mud for like a Few weeks. Weeks. And so it's very frustrating, but so does get better. But that's also very annoying to hear when you're. When you're not in that. Right. When you're not in that place. And so, I mean, my therapist even had me do, like, the. You know, if you feel like you're not being consistent with self care, what's one thing you can do today to take care of your. Of your self care? Like, let's just name one thing.

[Dustin]

Like.

[Crystal]

And I was like, oh, well, you know, I need to go grocery shopping. I'm out of chicken or something. She's like, okay, so today it's. You're gonna go get the chicken, and we'll celebrate you going to the store and doing that and. And doing your best with it. Like, is so annoying. It's.

[Dustin]

I celebrate chicken too. I love it.

[Crystal]

Just some chicken. It's irritating to be in this. In this place. It really is. But it is part of life and. And coping with it. You just. You. You hope that your methods of coping with being down are getting better, that your strength is increasing in that way, not that you simply don't feel down anymore. That's not realistic. So, yeah. You know, that I'm not drunk. Hell, I'm not high. The fact that I've been sober for this long, it's crazy.

[Fran]

And your show is amazing, and you're consistent. You know, like, those are big wins for us.

[Crystal]

Right? So you really have to. To give yourself a pat on the back. And that can be hard, too, when you're. When you're so in your head that all you see is what's not good enough stuff. It can be hard to zoom out and. And see all the things that are going well. And then you have other people, you know, hear this, and they're like, I would have never even thought that you were going through anything. Like, people don't know.

[Fran]

Right.

[Dustin]

Like us reading Brandy's book.

[Asante]

Don't do.

[Fran]

We're currently. We're currently reading it. And it's. It's Crystal.

[Asante]

Crystal.

[Dustin]

Crystal, Me and you offline. We're gonna have to offer.

[Crystal]

Okay. I love things about it.

[Fran]

Yeah, we do. We have. I'm gonna do one. One more. But I was gonna say I love

[Crystal]

whatever the spirit tells you.

[Fran]

I love that. I love that advice because there's certain things that. I think it was Orna on couples therapy. I've mentioned this before, where she was telling. There was a woman that had a wound from her mom, and. And Right. Remember? And Orna told Her, that hole is always going to be there. It's not a matter of trying to close it or fix it or quote unquote, even heal it. But it's like, what are you doing around it? You know, what does your life look like around it? And that was so profound to me because just like you said, you know, you can go from laying in the bed for days to maybe now you still are sad about it, but you go for a walk, shock when that thing hits in your body. And so sadness, but you're just working do it differently and that's a win. And I think I'm. I'm realizing that now that it's less about it going away and more about how I'm integrating it into my habits.

[Dustin]

That is okay. With that exact approach to managing the daily pain of grief from losing Frank and Neff. All jokes aside, that is literally. I have described. It's so surreal to hear you say that, friend, because I've described it to multiple people that way. Like, it's a big ass hole in my life that I just have learned to accommodate, you know what I'm saying? So to hear you say that, it feels like a cosmic, an affirming. Yeah, the rocks in the window, girl,

[Fran]

make you feel like you gotta fix it it or try to be sad about it.

[Dustin]

There's no fix.

[Fran]

It's there, it happens. And I have to accept that it happened. And I'm not ever going to be able to change those things. And I think that's. That you have to just, like, be okay with that.

[Crystal]

The goal is to build up your capacity to tolerate the hard feelings.

[Fran]

That part.

[Crystal]

Yeah, that takes you. And, you know, I. I love. I think Dr. Orna is very skilled and that show is incredible. But I also have very real ethical concerns about putting therapy on tv.

[Dustin]

On tv.

[Fran]

Yeah, on Showtime for us.

[Crystal]

Because the amount of criticism you open these people up to is so odd. Oh, my God, I'm cool already.

[Fran]

So vulnerable.

[Crystal]

Yes. I'm like, oh, the orner.

[Dustin]

Don't give up.

[Crystal]

Everybody telling you what a stupid bitch you are for staying with this man.

[Fran]

Right?

[Dustin]

Orna said, how many episodes we got? All right. And that was it. Ornery. Ornery. That's it.

[Crystal]

So anyway.

[Fran]

All right, here's another one. Tange said, my question for you guys is how to deal with friends moving away for people that have severe abandonment issues.

[Crystal]

Good question. I'm trying to remember where we all lived here. Sorry I'm triggered. Oh, my God.

[Fran]

I'm trying to be supportive while also being a Little sad about it.

[Dustin]

First of all, you're not alone. Another day you're not alone.

[Crystal]

You couldn't help it.

[Dustin]

I couldn't. Crystal, you know me friend.

[Crystal]

I know it. And I mean, I almost got on this call talking about, remember when we all lived in New York? I almost, literally all of us, y' all left us this person. And, you know, I do miss. Oh, God. Everybody who has you and Asante and xd. Y' all just left me and Dietrich Fury.

[Dustin]

Who else? Move. I got a whole list.

[Fran]

Remember, Tessa Lee was one of the first ones to dip. Yeah. So this person.

[Crystal]

This person mentioned having severe abandonment issues. Me, I'm. I'm joking with my friends about, like, why you leave me.

[Fran]

Right, Right.

[Crystal]

If you. If you have severe abandonment issues, I think you have to pay close attention to how you're feeling, and you have to allow yourself the space to feel it. Like, yes, you're sad. You can even recognize, like, oh, this is triggering something much deeper in me. This is not about friend going to frolic with the squirrels in Oregon. Like, this is about my dad.

[Fran]

Okay. I'm time traveling right now.

[Asante]

Right.

[Fran]

You have to.

[Crystal]

Yeah. Yes. I'm. I. I'm not in this moment right now. She's a grown woman. She can go, you know, be with the waterfalls if she wants to.

[Dustin]

Yeah. Yeah, same.

[Crystal]

And so you have. But you. You have to give yourself space to. To feel that sadness. Like, I'm sad that she's gone, but I'm also happy for her because she's living the life that she wants to live. She's right.

[Dustin]

Absolutely.

[Crystal]

And. And for. For people who have severe abandonment issues or wounds, that this can cause you to. This can provoke you to react in ways that will further fracture your friendship if you do not get a hold of yourself. So that's why I say you sit with your feelings. You pay attention to them, and you remain mindful that this is not about your friend. The deeper. The deeper pain here is not about your friend. And so you can. When you're FaceTiming with them or whatever, you can say, oh, my God, sister, I miss you. Oh, I miss you so much. And you can make plans to see each other. Like, yeah, you can do all that. But if you have anything more severe or if you have, like, anger maybe, or some sort of extreme grief, and you feel the need to lash out at them, that's where you need to want to make sure that you're really remaining in control of your behaviors. Because, again, it's the soul that needs the surgery.

[Asante]

Frame your thinking about. Frame. Frame your feelings, right? So really sit with yourself and say you're happy for your friend and you love the fact that they're moving. What. What is it about that that's making you uncomfortable? Like, is it them? Is it something that you feel like they owe you? Because then, you know, work. Work with her against that. I don't know, because I just. I'm like, why wouldn't I be? Like, I. Yes, I would be sad, but also, I love y', all. So it's like, you know what?

[Fran]

Fuck, y' all have to be happy.

[Crystal]

And I want you to be happy, right?

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Dustin]

Yeah.

[Asante]

Like, I want everybody to be happy. So I just can't connect. But I also. I can understand someone not wanting to lose those connections. I just wouldn't want to lash. It sucks heavily. I just don't want. I wouldn't want to lose that by lashing out at the person.

[Crystal]

Right? But you will lose your friend altogether if you don't get your shit together.

[Dustin]

Right? Cause you can get on a plane.

[Crystal]

You can. And if Asante wants to gallivant around the US doing OnlyFans or whatever, not being here in Brooklyn to hang out with me to find.

[Dustin]

Getting new cars and that, we can't ride in.

[Crystal]

We ain't get a new car and then turn around and get another new

[Dustin]

car just because he felt like, love it.

[Crystal]

You love it.

[Dustin]

You going.

[Crystal]

Want to be near me.

[Dustin]

Yeah.

[Asante]

This is not about me.

[Fran]

This is.

[Dustin]

I just want to get in the car.

[Fran]

So funny.

[Crystal]

Yeah. You know, you gotta. You gotta journal those. Those stronger feelings out. You know, you gotta go take a walk or exercise or talk to a therapist or, you know, or talk to some other friend about it. Like, man, I'm having some strong feelings that are coming up. And I know it's not about Jessica moving. I know it's about my daddy, but it's, like, really poking me in a tender place. And that may have to be, you know, a friend that you really trust intimately in that way.

[Dustin]

Dustin, I didn't even say anything. Thing I do well. I can't help myself, you know, we know I'm that way.

[Fran]

All right, here's the. Here's the actual last one because I thought this one tied in. So Deja says I'm not religious, but I would say I have a solid community of loved ones, and I'm spiritual in my own right, but I'm always down to learn more from new connections and friends. How do you navigate making new friends with people who are very strict in their religion or beliefs that may be different from yours without immediately challenging them or trying to turn them. Turn it into a debate. I'll get real passionate about shit that could just be an agree to disagree, and then I'll ruin potential friendships.

[Asante]

Have different conversations with them. Sorry.

[Fran]

Right. Just don't talk with each other.

[Crystal]

Yeah, I would. I would say if this person is not trying to impose their beliefs on you or they're not saying something that's harmful to you or some other marginalized group, like it's not some weird homophobia or, you know, hatred of women or whatever, then just let them have it. Like, I'm. I'm. But also, if somebody is very, very religious and very, very strict, they probably. We're probably not supposed to be good

[Dustin]

friends, nor would you be. Right. Because you wouldn't even spend the time together.

[Crystal]

And I'm going to provoke things in you that make you say, oh, I'm backsliding. I'm going to hell. Like, I'm not supposed to be around this woman because she is drinking and 100 and telling men that they don't deserve the. The land that they stand on. So, like, our values are probably not that aligned anyway. But, like, I just made a. Well, she was a bar friend, so, you know, she was a friend for them. Couple of hours, but. But I made a friend a couple weeks ago. Who.

[Asante]

See, you make friends out there.

[Dustin]

The girl in the picture you posted,

[Crystal]

it's not the same.

[Dustin]

When you were like, if. Remember, you were like, if you see this girl that we met at the bar tonight, tell her something. You were at an event with Jade and you had posted a FaceTime.

[Asante]

You made friends.

[Fran]

The sa.

[Crystal]

No, no, no.

[Dustin]

Let me get out your. Let me get out your ass.

[Asante]

Because you FaceTime me and then you didn't call me back. Sorry. Back to business.

[Crystal]

Everybody's making it about them. You see, this we love. But. So anyway, my. My new little temporary friend at the bar, she just immediately started going. She had one. It was one of these new converts. She had just been baptized or something. So she wanted to talk about. She was heavy. Yeah. And I was like, oh, yeah, I can tell. What, you got baptized two weeks ago? Yeah, I could tell because y' all be the number one soldiers for Christ.

[Fran]

Okay.

[Dustin]

You know, I just got so good yesterday. You gotta start talking like that. And then they pack up real quick. That close like. Like they close that piano in the Color Purple. When they start to shoot up the juke joint, they'll get the hell away from you. At that point, I'm not gonna argue

[Crystal]

with people about things that are faith based.

[Dustin]

Yeah.

[Crystal]

You know.

[Dustin]

Yeah.

[Crystal]

If you want to. If you want to believe in something that is about faith, you can have it. If you start talking about vaccines are a way for the white man to control population.

[Fran]

I only told you that once, Crystal. I only said it once. I dropped it.

[Crystal]

You start talking about. I. I was watching. I was watching nature, boy. Like, they would have got Fran's ass.

[Asante]

Oh my God.

[Dustin]

So easy. Not with me holding on to her ankle.

[Crystal]

So easy. I can't let her.

[Asante]

No.

[Dustin]

I never told you no before, but you are not doing this.

[Crystal]

Right up until the point where they tried to take her purse. The said, we need your. Your bank card.

[Fran]

I be like, oh, no.

[Dustin]

Fran would have had her own place anyway this week.

[Asante]

We would have been. We would have. Would have been right out there with the helicopter. What's that show the 18 like culpability.

[Dustin]

Like c. Get on the.

[Crystal]

Get on the.

[Asante]

For real.

[Crystal]

The way them white people had Canada go in and get their damn dollar. I would have came and got friends. Like, girl, no.

[Dustin]

I'd have had Maluka honey. Everywhere,

[Asante]

honey.

[Crystal]

Right?

[Fran]

Oh my God.

[Crystal]

So that. That's where the line is for me. You can have your beliefs as long as you're not spreading something harmful or

[Dustin]

with me about it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

[Fran]

I can actually speak to this too because y' all know I'm really close with Shameless Maya and her relationship. Supremely. Yeah. Supremely important to her.

[Crystal]

That's right.

[Fran]

Yeah. And we have absolutely bumped heads about, you know, certain belief systems. But what I think it has helped us learn is boundaries with each other.

[Dustin]

Yes.

[Fran]

Where it's like, you believe this, I'm going to respect that. But you also have to respect that I don't. Or, you know, and if we can do that, then we can continue even having certain debates and conversations. But it's just respectfully and being open minded and, you know, it's not right. And to me, we had to learn to get to that point. And it's something that she's grown to appreciate because I have been open with her about how I feel about the

[Crystal]

things that she tells me.

[Fran]

Me. So it gives her an opportunity to audit herself and it gives me an opportunity to advocate for myself when someone that I love and that is supposed to be one of my closest people is making me feel away, you know, like these are things you learn through dynamics and friendships and they're very important life skills. So I can See, it being a rub that you might not want to deal with, but if y' all can figure it out, is it presents pretty useful tools. I can help you grow dynamics with people that are different from you because everyone is not going to think what you think. You know, you can have your.

[Crystal]

Your beliefs. Just don't try to convert.

[Fran]

Don't impose them right or shame.

[Crystal]

And I won't put mine on you. You know, I'm not gonna sneak forth into the Muslim homie food.

[Dustin]

Yeah, exactly.

[Crystal]

No asshole shit like that. It's live and let live on that level for sure.

[Asante]

I love that you shared that friend, because the person that wrote in, you know, like, no one's saying, write this friendship off, you know. You know, go to this person, you know, try to change up the topics or establish some boundaries, as Fran suggested. Because even Crystal, you said earlier, you know, when you're meeting somebody, when you're meeting people, you know, you want to give people a chance to make up for or change the outcome of the situation, and maybe you could grow. It can become something beautiful. So I'm so glad you shared that part.

[Crystal]

Yeah, for sure.

[Fran]

Thank you. Thank you for these questions. They sent in a lot of beautiful questions, Crystal, and you know, we hate that we can't get to all of them, but I think this was a really great convo. I'm grateful that you joined us and we're able to watch even Caterpillar in honor of.

[Dustin]

I'm grateful you did that the most

[Fran]

in honor of our friendship.

[Crystal]

I said, only friend.

[Dustin]

Only friend.

[Crystal]

And it was, well. Cause y' all didn't ask.

[Dustin]

She mean that she would have told us no, but for friends, she said,

[Crystal]

because y' all would have. Y' all would have told me up front, you want to watch Caterpillar and then come on the show, talk about it with. Somebody said, no, Fred got me.

[Asante]

Literally what she would have said, well,

[Dustin]

you got to come back. You got to come back. For part two. A real fusion with Crystal's couch in the friend zone, where we take all the questions from the audience.

[Fran]

Thank you, Crystal. I do have to know real quickly when they. When he changed his eye color and looked in the mirror at the front first time.

[Crystal]

It's just a demon looking back at you. It's a demon looking back at you. All the soul is out of your face.

[Dustin]

Paid good money to see and to get that reaction. I can hear her and I'm over here.

[Crystal]

I got it on one and a half speed. Like, get me out of this. Oh, my God. Oh, My God.

[Fran]

Oh, Crystal, we love you.

[Asante]

Please, we love you so much.

[Fran]

And Chris Couch and everything.

[Crystal]

You can find my solo podcast advice show Crystal's Couch on all podcasting, streaming apps and networks. It's also on YouTube for those of you who prefer video. I'm also on the read that is also on all of the apps and you can follow me online. I'm at Crystal on Instagram and TikTok, which are really the only social medias that I use.

[Fran]

So, yeah.

[Crystal]

Thank you all for having me. I love you.

[Asante]

I love you immensely. I want to just make sure I take this moment very quickly to say thank you for everything that you do as a friend, as a professional in all sorts of business, but you deserve all the flowers and the amazing things in the world. And I want to extend this last part to you too. Thank you all for being such great anchors in my life.

[Fran]

That's real.

[Asante]

I mean, like, honestly, like, as we talked about these people.

[Crystal]

Yeah.

[Asante]

I literally said. Like, I literally said on the last time we talked about the nature boy doc, I was like, this girl, she could be like my cousin or my sister or something.

[Crystal]

Literally.

[Asante]

I'm just so thankful that in the back of my head I will hear Dustin me like, what the is this?

[Crystal]

Yeah.

[Asante]

Or I'll hear a friend being like, that's not really resonating with me. Like, oh, hell no. Like, Like y' all are really sitting there telling me certain things at certain points, so.

[Crystal]

Right. Yeah, because what you mean you blocked everybody and then flew to Costa Rica? I'm coming to Costa Rica.

[Asante]

Where you at?

[Crystal]

I'm finding I'm not leaving Costa Rica till you with me.

[Dustin]

That would have been the first thing I said to you when I got on the compound. Quit dancing.

[Crystal]

Get your.

[Dustin]

Come on.

[Asante]

I wouldn't have been out in that compound. Now, y' all know I like that.

[Fran]

Still would have been in the comments on the live.

[Dustin]

Yeah, I sure would have. I'm gonna nature way up when I get there. I don't care. Write me this comment.

[Crystal]

I would have set up a fake account, acted like I wanted to come be part of it.

[Dustin]

Came and show black with the authority going home. You signing your passport sign with the Costa Rican police.

[Asante]

I just would have started laughing once I seen y. One of y' all been, oh, my God, I can't laugh.

[Crystal]

Cuz you already know soon as you see me, the gig is up.

[Asante]

And you know soon as you seen

[Dustin]

me, I had some hold for you. I'm mad at you, but we gonna smoke first. Come on.

[Crystal]

And your little tomatoes.

[Dustin]

I would have 100% and I would have absolutely pushed nature boy. I would have at least got that moment out of the whole.

[Fran]

I would have gotten up from the hammock like, all my friends are here. This was fun.

[Dustin]

I'd had a laughing her plant for friend doing like this.

[Crystal]

Go get her sand bag out the bag.

[Asante]

She got to plant a Chanel bag.

[Dustin]

Come on.

[Fran]

Saved me.

[Asante]

Yeah, put your J on.

[Dustin]

Come on, girl. For real.

[Crystal]

She thought this was.

[Asante]

Oh, the.

[Fran]

That was so perfect. On that note, thank you so much for listening. Listening. We hope you enjoy this episode as much as we enjoyed being a part of it. We do not take you for granted. And we love you so much. And we'll catch you guys next week.

[Asante]

Stay black and protect your magic.

[Fran]

Bye, Crystal. We love you.

[Dustin]

We love you.

[Crystal]

This is

[Dustin]

Liberty Mutual. Customizes your car and home insurance.

[Asante]

And now we're customizing this ad for

[Dustin]

your morning commute to wake you up, which could help your driving.

[Asante]

Science says that stimulating the brain increases alertness. So here's a pop. How many months have 28 days?

[Dustin]

What gets wetter as it dries? What has keys but can't open? Locks.

[Asante]

If you don't want to hear the

[Dustin]

answers, turn off this Liberty mutual ad now. 12 months.

[Asante]

A towel, piano. Enjoy being fully alert.