Podcast Summary: The Futur with Chris Do

Episode: The Business of Design Systems and Standards w/ Jesse Reed | Ep 410
Release Date: January 8, 2026
Guest: Jesse Reed (Co-founder of Standards Manual, Order, and Standards)
Host: Chris Do

Main Theme

This episode dives deep into the business, philosophy, and design lessons from Jesse Reed’s career as a co-founder of three overlapping yet distinct ventures: Standards Manual (an independent design publisher), Order (a Brooklyn-based design agency), and Standards (a digital guidelines SaaS). The conversation explores the balance between passion projects and scalability, what makes great design systems timeless, how past standards inform the future, and the emotional evolution of brands.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introduction: The World of Standards, Systems, and Artifacts

• Tangible Design in a Digital Age:
  • Chris Do begins by highlighting the appeal and nostalgia of physical design manuals and books in today’s digital landscape (00:21).
  • Quote:

    "I think beautiful, straightforward, flat lays or documents, tickets, all kinds of objects... they can be works of art themselves as still lifes..." (01:25, Chris Do)

• Jesse's Background:
  • Co-founder of Standards Manual (publishing), Order (design agency), and Standards (digital guidelines tool) (02:29).
  • Occasional lecturer (not teaching currently due to time constraints) (03:10).

The Overlap and Synergy of Multiple Ventures

• Balancing Multiple Roles and Projects:
  • Jesse enjoys working on different projects for shorter periods, learned from his fast-paced time at Pentagram with Michael Bierut (04:12).
  • The ability to “change hats” and thrive on non-routine work is key to his productivity (05:58).
• Timeline of Ventures:
  • Standards Manual (2014): Started with a single project, grew via passion and Kickstarter.
  • Order (2017): Launched after leaving Pentagram to offer design services.
  • Standards (c.2020): A SaaS for digital brand guidelines, stemming naturally from their work with archival brand systems (06:06–09:33).
• How the Companies Feed Each Other:
  • Research and credibility from publishing informs client work.
  • Agency experience with brand systems feeds into their SaaS product.
  • No initial business plan—growth emerged organically from curiosity and passion (08:48).

Lessons Learned: Business, Kickstarter, and Focus

• Business Takeaways from Crowdfunding:
  • Start simple: One reward (the book) kept their Kickstarter focused and manageable, avoiding fulfillment complexities (12:14).
    • Quote:

      "We just stuck to one thing. All you got by funding our campaign was the book." (13:10, Jesse Reed)

  • Simplicity applies as much to business as to design—focus, reduction, and clarity pay off (15:06–15:39).
• On Revenue & Time Allocation:
  • The agency (Order) is the primary income source (16:27).
  • Also the main time commitment due to managing the team and projects (17:17).
• On Joy and Passion:
  • Derives greatest joy from agency work—collaborating with clients and learning from different industries.
  • Publishes books for the satisfaction of sharing without client constraints (18:18–19:46).
  • All ventures must be driven by passion and genuine interest to achieve success (21:40–24:12).

Design Principles and Timeless Systems

• What Historical Manuals Teach:
  • Fundamental principles—consistency, process, clarity—are unchanging across decades (29:01).
    • Quote:

      "Nothing has changed. Look at any contemporary brand guidelines... all of those same principles apply..." (29:36, Jesse Reed)

  • The role of modern digital tools is to make these systems flexible and scalable, not to reinvent foundational rules (26:16–28:30).
  • Standards SaaS prioritizes adaptability and customization, not rigid templates (27:11).
• The Creative Joy of Systems:
  • Passion for “the boring parts”: grids, modules, architecture of brands (30:40).
  • The excitement lies in freeing creative energy by codifying structure.

Brand Refreshes, Criticism, and Public Perception

• Public Outrage and Misunderstandings:
  • Commentary around large rebrands often overlooks the underlying complexity (32:05–33:46).
    • Quote:

      "18 months to me sounds short for what they had to do and like kudos to them, hats off on the work..." (32:34, Jesse Reed)

  • The work is “for other people”—distributed teams, thousands of applications; presenting options and decision-making is a massive part of the task (34:43–36:19).
  • Brand guidelines prevent redundant decision-making by acting as a central source of truth for all brand expressions (38:38).

On Type Foundries and Expanding Creative Ventures

• Order Type Foundry (OTF):
  • Born during the pandemic out of community, passion, and an opportunity to support overlooked type designers (39:51–42:44).
  • A way to create passive income, support emerging talent, and reinforce the ecosystem of Order’s business.

The Emotional Evolution of Brands

• Brands are Becoming More Emotional:
  • Today’s brands, including startups and direct-to-consumer companies, differentiate via emotional resonance, not just static identities (43:16).
    • Quote:

      "The emotion is what separates you from your competitors...what is your emotional identity?" (43:22, Jesse Reed)

  • It's not about designers injecting their own emotions, but reflecting the brand’s intrinsic personality (43:55).
• Examples:
  • Mailchimp: Emotive mascot, expressive system (45:33).
  • Casper (mattresses): Emotional disruption of a staid category.
  • Chobani: Brand that embodies joy and enjoyment in a commoditized space (45:35–47:20).

Rapid Critique: Brand Iconography and Meaning

• Under Armour:
  • Brand system relies on real athletes/users, not emotive logo; stability and support are key qualities (48:00–50:24).
  • Logo is an identifier, not a source of emotion, but serves its function perfectly.
• Twitter/X:
  • Reed critiques the lack of universality and clarity in the new X icon (52:21).
  • Discusses how high–profile decisions may bypass rigorous process for speed or personal preference (53:54–54:33).

Creative Success, Money, and Criticism

• On Being Accused of "Selling Out":
  • Reed addresses criticism of profiting from re-publishing vintage manuals (57:45–57:55).
    • Quote:

      "If you see someone gain success almost through something that anyone could have done...you didn't think about it." (58:06, Jesse Reed)

  • Focus was always accessibility and preservation—not claiming others’ work as their own.
  • Criticism is part of the creative process and less impactful than being ignored (61:39).
• On Financial Success and Community:
  • There’s nothing wrong with designers making money; capitalism can benefit more by redistributing resources to worthy causes (Change Order: pro bono for NGOs, not award shows) (63:28–65:50).
  • Risk and willingness to act is often what differentiates successful creatives from critics (65:50).

Collaboration, Competition, and Looking Forward

• Standards as a Bridge:
  • The Standards SaaS enables collaboration—even among competitors, challenging traditional agency "us vs. them" thinking (67:24–68:51).
  • The design industry should shift from zero-sum to infinite game mindset: more sharing, less jealousy, more growth for all.
• Where Brands Are Headed:
  • Towards further emotional expressiveness, functional clarity, and systems that support but don’t limit creativity.

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “All you got by funding our campaign was the book.” — Jesse Reed (13:10)
• “That simplicity, that reduction of the core DNA, the core focus, the core attention that you want to give any given theme or artifact is really critical.” — Jesse Reed (15:39)
• “Nothing has changed. Look at any contemporary brand guidelines... all of those same principles apply...” — Jesse Reed (29:36)
• “The emotion is what separates you from your competitors...what is your emotional identity?” — Jesse Reed (43:22)
• “At the end of the day, it's all about decision making... brand guidelines exist so those decisions don’t have to be re-asked and re-answered.” — Jesse Reed (38:38)
• “If you see someone gain success almost through something that anyone could have done...you didn't think about it.” — Jesse Reed (58:06)
• “I'd rather you really dislike [my work]... rather than being like, ‘yeah, whatever.’ That's the worst is to get the whatever.” — Jesse Reed (61:39)

Key Timestamps

• 00:21 — Chris Do introduces the tactile appeal of design manuals
• 02:29 — Jesse's introduction & varied roles
• 06:06 — How the companies emerged and overlap
• 12:14 — Business lessons from Kickstarter & focus
• 16:27 — Which business makes the most money
• 18:18 — Which gives most joy
• 21:40 — Why maintain multiple ventures
• 26:16 — Design lessons from studying standards
• 29:01 — Timelessness of design system principles
• 32:34 — Public misunderstanding of large rebrands (Amazon example)
• 34:43 — The complexity of major identity projects explained
• 39:51 — The story of Order Type Foundry
• 43:16 — Evolution toward emotional branding
• 48:00 — Critique: Under Armour
• 52:21 — Critique: Twitter/X
• 57:45 — On being called a sellout
• 61:39 — Indifference is worse than criticism
• 63:28 — Capitalism and the value of creative work
• 67:24 — Standards as a tool for collaboration
• 68:51 — Infinite game thinking in design

Final Thoughts

Chris Do and Jesse Reed deliver a nuanced, honest, and deeply practical exploration of how design systems, business acumen, and passion for making and preserving great work ultimately feed each other. Reed's journey shows how embracing structure isn’t the enemy of creativity, and how focusing on clarity, emotional resonance, and community impact can lead to both professional and personal fulfillment.

Where to learn more:

• Order Design (design agency)
• Standards (guidelines SaaS)
• Standards Manual (publishing)