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The Glossy Podcast
'Fashion businesses want immediate contributions': An FIT professor's take on the 'challenging' fashion labor market
00:39:44
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- [00:02]
A
Marketers have always had to choose. Build your brand or drive sales. With YouTube, you can do both. It's where the most trusted creators and powerful AI converge to create and convert demand for your brand. That's why YouTube drives higher long term return on ad spend versus TV, paid, social or streaming. There's no more choosing between brand or results. With one platform, you get both. Learn more at g co business YouTube. That's g co business YouTube. Hello and welcome back to the Glossy Podcast. I'm your host, senior fashion reporter Dani Parisi, and I'm here with our international reporter, Zofia Zviglinska. Hello, Zofia.
- [00:52]
B
Hi.
- [00:53]
C
How you doing?
- [00:54]
A
I'm doing well. Thank you for being here. So later in this episode, I have a nice discussion with FIT professor Keith Fraley about the stage of the fashion industry job market. And there's a lot to talk about there. But first I wanted to talk with you, Zofia, just for a few minutes about the Met Gala, which happened on Monday. Many people are calling it the Bezos Ball, but it was an interesting one. It's always a big night for fashion, and I thought we could spend just a few minutes talking about what was weird about this one. And for me it was like, obviously the sponsorship of Jeff Bezos was looming over the whole thing and cast a sort of strange glow over the whole evening. There were mainstays who weren't there. There were protests, There was all sorts of weird stuff. What was your feeling about the Met Gala? Watching from afar?
- [01:42]
C
Yeah, I think it felt even more kind of glitzy and inaccessible than usual. And I think that the extra Amazon sprinkle of it all really didn't really help.
- [01:56]
A
It certainly didn't. I cataloged them. I have a story on gossip where I go into this more, but I cataloged some of the weird moments from the night. There was obviously big protests outside. In the days leading up to the gala, a group called Everyone Hates Elon had hidden bottles of fake urine all around the museum, alluding to Amazon workers being forced to pee in bottles because they don't have time to take bathroom breaks at one point in the night. They didn't show it on the live coverage, but somebody broke through the barricades and kind of like tried to run onto the red carpet area. And they were apprehended. And I wasn't there, but the New York Times had a reporter there and they said that it was. The feeling was very tense after that. Nobody was hurt or anything, but it's just people were really angry I think there's a lot of anti billionaire anger happening. And I think you're right that the Met gala felt even more like a symbol of massive inequality than it normally is.
- [02:58]
C
Can I just check? That was the head of the union, right, For Amazon workers nearby, the one who broke in?
- [03:03]
A
Oh, I don't know. I don't know who it was.
- [03:05]
C
I can't check. Cause I think it was.
- [03:07]
A
I just saw it in the moment, so I think I just saw the reporting that was like somebody broke through. I didn't follow up later to see.
- [03:13]
C
Yeah, okay. Yeah, so it was Christian Smalls, who's a longtime kind of Amazon union leader. And I believe that he was there to protest against the outcome of a legal case against Amazon.
- [03:28]
A
Yes. I actually just recently watched the movie Union, which is a great documentary about Christian Smalls and the first Amazon led union. Super interesting. So I didn't realize that that was him. Yeah, it was weird. And like I mentioned, there were a lot of regular Met gala attendees who were not there. Zendaya, I think, was a big one. Not everybody explicitly came out and was like, I don't like Jeff Bezos, so I'm not gonna be there. But it definitely was notable that he started sponsoring the event and then a bunch of people who normally go, we're not there. The mayor of New York, obviously the current mayor has never been mayor before, but whoever is the current mayor of New York has gone before. And a former mayor went this past week. Michael Bloomberg was there, but Zoran Mamdani was not. And he kind of pointedly released a photo series with ID magazine highlighting garment workers and the people who actually make the fashion industry run. So it definitely felt like there was a pointedly kind of anti billionaire sentiment there.
- [04:30]
C
Yeah, I think that was even anti Billionaire ball that was happening alongside also protesting Amazon's sponsorship of the event and kind of the whole partnership idea with a Runway from Amazon workers. So I think there was a lot of tension. It didn't help that the Runway itself was also. Or the Runway, the red carpet was also emblazoned with jewels from all around the world. There was a lot of very wealthy, wealthy sponsors and kind of billionaire attendees who came out, displayed in all the wealth. I think I saw someone with an 11 carat diamond.
- [05:08]
A
I want to say, yeah, the Mecca has always been very excessive and extravagant. That's part of the appeal. But I definitely think the political moment is not favorable to such lavish displays of unapologetic wealth. Understandably. Before we move on, did you have any favorite looks or Unfavorite looks.
- [05:32]
C
I definitely liked Emma Chamberlain's. I think she was one of the first ones on the red carpet, and it just. I think the kind of multicolor thing really worked on her. I loved her makeup.
- [05:43]
A
Looked like this swirl of, like, watercolor or like a Van Gogh painting or something. Very on theme with the Fashion is art.
- [05:50]
C
Yeah, I really love that one. I think a couple of the looks, like they were a little bit too literal with either hands or kind of half undone corsetry. I believe that every Kim Kardashian, Kendall Jenner, Kardashian family member all went in some kind of nude corsetry, which I thought was a little bit similar to everything else that was out there. But there were some interesting looks and definitely some unique ones. I think Janelle Monae was always one that kind of pulls out all the stops. I think she wore Thom Browne again.
- [06:21]
A
Yes. Yeah. I agree that the extended Kardashian Jenner family was a little underwhelming and. And very similar to each other. I quite liked. You mentioned a lot of hands and sculptural elements. I really liked. Lisa from Blackpink wore this custom Robert One dress with arms extending out of her shoulders that were holding a veil over her head, which I thought was very cool. There was a lot of similar looks of, you know, hands or arms or even an entire kind of second torso and head coming out of the side of somebody's body. But I think that was my favorite version. Just these two extra arms holding a veil. I just thought that was very cool.
- [07:03]
C
That was very cool. I think that was a lot of great looks.
- [07:06]
A
Any others that you disliked,
- [07:13]
C
I would have to come up with celebrities. Give me a second.
- [07:16]
A
I can say mine. Not to add to the Bezos hate, but I thought Lauren Sanchez Bezos was very basic. And the painting that it was supposed to be modeled off, the Portrait of Madame X by John Singer Sargent, I really don't think it looked anything like that painting. And for the sponsor, you'd think she'd go a little more all out. I don't know. I thought it was quite simple and unimpressive.
- [07:42]
C
Oh, and I have to mention Heidi Klum's look, because obviously the version of
- [07:48]
A
her, I respect it, but I don't know if I like looking at it.
- [07:51]
C
No, it kind of gives me the creeps. If anyone's watched Doctor who and there's the woman who's stretched out.
- [07:59]
A
Yes. Oh, my God. That's exactly what she looked like. I think her normal, lifelike. I mean, lifelike. Because she's alive. But her normal human eyes embedded in this artificial marble statue construct was very creepy to me. But I respect Heidi Klum always going for it. I really do. I don't want to be a hater on her, but it was pretty creepy to look at.
- [08:23]
C
It was.
- [08:24]
A
Okay, let's move on from the Met Gala. Lots more we could say. Like I said, we did write about it on the site. We have a couple different stories, so you can check it out there. But I had a great conversation this week with an FIT professor, Keith Fraley, who teaches fashion business management at fit, and we talked about the state of the fashion job market, the career path for new graduates. The talent pipeline, which is challenged across the entire US not just the fashion industry, but the labor market, is in a pretty tough position. But it was a great conversation. Zofia, have you done much thinking, much reporting about the labor market, or reading about what's happening in the talent pipeline for fashion right now?
- [09:12]
C
Yeah, I think that this is a really key topic right now. I'm seeing nonstop headlines about the state of the graduate market in other fields, especially those ones which are kind of more affected by AI tech. And I don't think that fashion is exempt. There's a lot of roles which are being kind of shut down or kind of pushed into maybe a bigger position that encompasses more responsibilities. And there's also ever more pressure on companies to reduce the amount of people that they're hiring, while at the same time trying to maintain this massive talent, I guess, pipeline that they've been relying on for, like, years. I mean, a lot of these massive brands have huge graduate programs. A lot of them hire very heavily into their headquarters or their kind of main offices from some of the top fashion schools. So, yeah, I'm really interested in how, I guess the current job market is affecting those young grads and I guess what they're looking for in positions as well, because one thing is for companies and what they're looking for. But a lot of these younger students are also more discerning as to what they're looking for from a job.
- [10:26]
A
Zofia, something I always forget about you is that you went to a fashion school. You went to Central St. Martin. So what was your experience at, you know, studying at an institution like that? Do you feel like it prepared you for a job in fashion? I just think that's interesting. I went to a normal American state school and studied English, so I didn't have any sort of formal fashion training.
- [10:48]
C
Yeah, I think it's really interesting Because I did my undergrad in English lit and history of Art and then went on and did my master's at Central St Martin's but it is literally the most legendary fashion college out there. And it does feel like that when you kind of step into the halls. Whether it prepared me for the fashion industry, I had a great tutor, Roger, who has always been very blunt about the realities of working in fashion. Even back then, the main jobs that he was talking about were copywriting for fashion retailers. And I think that considering the environment around copywriting now and AI, maybe that advice has changed, but it's still a massive deal to walk in the same place, if not the same building, as Leigh McQueen and Stella McCartney and a lot of the others. And we had Michael Kors visiting one time. That's not something you get on a regular college experience. So I think that's really cool. But I do think that the environment that students are stepping into now is very different. I actually saw a piece this morning from Fashionista saying that the Savannah College of Art and Design is actually trying something new to help its students in the design space. It's actually got a fashion boutique, a luxury boutique in downtown Savannah where some of the students will be able to actually sell some of their items, which I know that CSM and the British Fashion Council has been doing a stellar job with. But I know how challenging it is to make that move from being someone on a BA or an MA program over there and then actually going to creating and starting your own brand and what that looks like. So, yeah, big kudos to them.
- [12:39]
A
Well, I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts on this episode after you listen. Because one of the things Keith Fraley talks about is the necessity of a rounded education in fashion. Even if you're studying design or you're studying some like, artistic, creative part, you got to have some grounding in the business, especially if you want to be a founder or something like that. But how about enough preamble. We'll be right back and you'll hear my conversation with Keith Fraley. Marketers have always had to choose. Build your brand or drive sales. With YouTube, you can do both. It's where the most trusted creators and powerful AI converge to create and convert demand for your brand. That's why YouTube drives higher long term return on ad spend versus TV, paid, social or streaming. There's no more choosing between brand or results. With one platform, you get both. Learn more at g co business YouTube. That's g co business YouTube. Today we are talking about the State of the fashion job market. There have been a lot of layoffs, not just in fashion places like Saks Global, but across many related industries. Hiring at junior level jobs is down. People who are out of work are staying out of work longer. I wanted to talk about what the pipeline for a fashion career looks like these days and challenges that are facing new graduates who are trying to enter the industry. And to talk about that, we have the perfect person. I'm here with Keith Fraley. Keith is an assistant professor at the Fashion Institute of Technology. He's previously worked at fashion brands and retailers Burberry, Nordstrom. And now Keith teaches fashion business management at fit. Keith, thank you so much for being here.
- [14:29]
B
Thank you so much, Danny. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for offering this opportunity to me. And I look forward to talk about all things fashion, especially this topic I think is really relevant for today.
- [14:41]
A
It is. And I feel like you're the right person to talk to because you are talking to students. You're in the weeds with them, right as they're about to go off and hopefully join the fashion industry, which a lot of people want to do. It's an aspirational job for a lot of people. And so there's a lot of interest in a career in fashion. But like many other industries, it's challenged right now to start off in, in a succinct way or in one word. How would you describe the job market in fashion right now?
- [15:13]
B
Challenging.
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A
Challenging. Tough.
- [15:18]
B
But very rewarding if you can push through the noise. But there's definitely opportunities out there. But I would say one word is definitely challenging. I see it in the student. I see it in the hallways as challenging. What it was before, but definitely now.
- [15:38]
A
Yeah. What are you hearing from your students then and what kind of advice are you giving them in entering the job market in fashion?
- [15:46]
B
So there's a couple of things that I'm telling them is be as prepared as possible out in the industry, right? Get ready for what's happening. Becoming more selective in your process and being much more strategic in how you operate and what I mean by that. I was just talking to student today, like we need to have the basics, you know, have your LinkedIn profile ready. You need to have your portfolio ready to go. You need to use all of the resources that you have at your institution. But also networking, right? Just applying to the job is not going to be enough, Right. You got to get out there and network, go to events. And I was just telling this to a student today, like, you know, do the some of the things, a lot of students want it to be easy and for it to come to them, but that's not the reality. The reality is that you have to do the work, the behind the scenes work to make that thing happen.
- [16:47]
A
So what's the typical pipeline these days when your students graduate, what kind of roles are they going into, assuming they can get a job in the industry right away?
- [16:57]
B
I would say this, the traditional pathway still doesn't exist. Right. Or it still exists in some way. But I would say the main thing is internships are still out there, internships are still an opportunity, entry level is still there, and growth opportunities are still happening. So some of the jobs that I would say that a lot of students are entering are still those creative roles in my space that I've seen is like product development, planning, assistant, buyer, a junior buyer, even store management are some level that our students are really gravitating towards. So I think that these are entry level jobs, whether it's on the retail side or on the corporate side, that students are getting those jobs, but they also, a lot of them aren't, but they still aspire to get those jobs to be able to get to that end. And I think that internship is one way is to be able to enter into that in those entry level. But in order to get that, I go back to what I stated before, that networking component. Right. Most of these jobs that these students, students have received, they network, they did an internship prior. So I would say that would be some of the jobs that our students are starting off with. I didn't name any brand, but it's across we have from the, from the Ross to the TJ Maxx, all the way to the Chanel, the Nordstrom's in between. So getting those types of opportunities and
- [18:27]
A
are those roles very specialized in terms of needing like if you're going to go into product development, you need a degree in that area, you need a portfolio. I imagine the students probably have to, well, tell me if this is right or wrong, kind of decide early. You can't just say you want to do fashion in general and kind of see what's out there. You need to sort of prep for a specific lane.
- [18:48]
B
Absolutely. I think the sooner you can know what category you want to go in, the better you can prepare for that. Right. If you want to go into a certain category, it's really important to take the classes prior to that to help you prepare you for those bases. If you want to be a buyer, you need to take retail math classes. Right. You need to make sure that you understand Excel, you need to make sure that you understand that process. But that might be a little differently if you want to go into a different space. If you want to be a stylist, making sure. So do you need to have, I would say project based experience. Right. Based upon on that category that you want to work work in. I would also say freelance and portfolio work is another one that can also enhance where you're trying to go into. So do you need to have a direct degree in styling? Maybe not direct degree, but you need to have somewhere of working knowledge within that particular category that can help you into that job position. Right?
- [19:54]
A
Yes.
- [19:55]
B
The student that really show the best or stand out the most from what I've seen thus far is really those students that can make decision making ability. Right. Would be the most component is really understanding how the brand makes money. You need to understand what they do to make that money and being able to make a cohesive decision. Right. So I would say from the fit angle, I would say that it's really about the student that we see are emphasizing the applied learning, but also the industry exposure is another component. Give the student the early clarity that they need. So the sooner you know that, the better you can make that decision.
- [20:41]
A
So I know you're teaching fashion business management. Is every student in your class someone who's specifically looking for a role in that field or is that something that you feel like anyone who wants a job in fashion should have a kind of rounded experience? Do you have people who are really more designers but they want to know a little bit more about management stuff? Yeah. What's the student kind of experience there?
- [21:03]
B
So great question. So most of the students in my course, most of them, not all of them, but a lot of them are FBM students, which is fashion business management students. But I do have a handful of students that are design students that are AMC student have other students in other categories. So most students that become to us, they really want to learn the business behind the brand. Right. How do you run the business as effective as possible. So really understanding like pricing, understanding margin, understanding inventory control, really understanding how net sales, gross sales, understanding those particular categories that you can use to run your business business effectively. Right. So it's not. So I always say this in class often regardless of where you go, you need to understand the business to some capacity. Right. You can't just be fully creative. You got to understand how do you run your profit and loss statement. How do you run your P and L. Right. Understanding that. So most Business students that come through our class, they want to be able to understand that. So in the roles that they go to, they can be effective in that. I always say this often. So it's really about building this portfolio of thinking. Right. You want to be able to, it's not just visual, but be able to answer in the business, what decision would you make and why? If you're in that space that you're in. So if you are a planner, if you're an allocator, if you are a stylist, if you have an entrepreneur, like what would you make in that particular section and why? Right. So I think it's really for the students understanding that your value is not just what you create, but it's also
- [23:02]
A
about how you think and from your understanding on the brand side. For the companies that are hiring these students, what are they looking for? Are they looking for a super well rounded candidate or do they prefer like a specialist? I'm sure it depends on the hire, but like what do you think is more desirable out in the market?
- [23:22]
B
So I think it's a combination of all of it. I think the first one is, it depends on where you're going. I'll be the first one. But I would say that the roles are expecting immediate contribution the moment that you're hired. Right. So before you can contribute, you need to go through the interview process and show that you're capable of doing this job. Right. So they need to see that as soon as we hire you, you are going to make an impact in your role relatively quickly. I've seen that across the platform. Right. So it's this cost of entry barrier, if you will. So especially in New York City. So those internships really help for students to be able to have that immediate contribution. I also think it's about really just the aesthetic without the business understanding is the biggest part. Right. So don't overemphasize just the aesthetics of working somewhere without the business understanding of it. So you got to understand that business part of it. But I would say it's just that immediate gratification also or immediate contribution rather. I would say that I think analytics is also integrated. So being able to. A lot of spaces that we are entering down are about that analytics on integration. So actively being able to address those types of components. Another one is about that real world project as you're going through the interview process. Can you give us those real world projects that you have gone through that would be beneficial in the role that you're going in right now?
- [25:08]
A
Well, on that note, obviously the students get lots of education through the classroom, but what kinds of programs or options are there at FIT for real world experience? And do you facilitate internships? Do you connect students with fashion businesses and give them kind of practical experience?
- [25:29]
B
I'm glad that you asked that. So we have career services here at FIT that we highly encourage the students to go partake. We have a lot of internships. A lot of these companies come here to FIT looking for student for internship possibility. We also have our connection with the professors that we have here at FIT that's able to connect students to potential opportunity. So there's a lot of resources here for the FIT students to be able to get internship. But again, the key word is networking. Right. You have to make sure that you are networking and speaking with these individual. The opportunities that come here to fit. I encourage the students to do that. And a lot of them do. A lot of them do exactly that. And I've seen great opportunities come out of that. Right. But you see the stark difference of the students that do not. Right. That aren't doing that and they are in a different situation. Right.
- [26:31]
A
Yeah. I want to ask you one more career pipeline question and then I have a couple zoomed out question about the industry as a whole. But one more career question is. So I feel like the classic pipeline or at least one that I know has worked before because I have friends who had this experience and I know you did as well as starting in retail, starting folding clothes and putting them on the shelves in a physical location for a brand and then somewhere down the road transitioning into some other part of the industry. Is that still possible? Or is retail kind of. You're locked into retail. Like could you start working in a store and end up in product development or some other part of the business?
- [27:10]
B
Absolutely. Yes, you can absolutely start at the retail level and you can start in another part of the business. I do not think that retail is. That you're locked into retail. Retail is a great way to enter into this industry, this enormous industry, and be able to understand what the business is really about. When you're in that retail platform, you are engaging with the customer, you are seeing the consumers engaging with them. You're dealing with visual merchandising, you're dealing with inventory. You're dealing with so much at that store level that the students can learn a lot from that. So that was my. You just said, Danny, that was part of your journey. That was definitely part of mine. So I worked at Nordstrom, I worked at Gap at the Retail level. I've worked at different places and management, and I've learned so much from that. Right. And I still take that and I share that information in the classroom today. I got an email from a student last week that they sent me an email to say, professor Fraley, I'm so excited. I got a new job. And I got a new job being a store manager at a bridal shop. Right. And she was so ecstatic. And she remember, she was like, professor, I remember you telling me, like, hey, don't shut down the retail opportunity because that could be a great trajectory for them in the future. Right. So I definitely think that you can go from retail into the corporate space if you want to go into product development, etc. So I think that's a well and alive. However, you gotta network again. You gotta network, you gotta show your value. You have to show nothing is gonna be handed to you. You gotta go and make that thing happen and make that thing work. So I think it's definitely still alive. Yeah.
- [29:06]
A
In other words, if you're working in retail and you wanna end up in product development, you gotta push for that to happen instead of just. You're not gonna get plucked over without any initiative. No, but it's interesting.
- [29:18]
B
Well, let me say this though, Danny, I do wanna say this, however. I have a lot of students that are able to skip the retail category and go right into product development or assistant buyer. But again, you still. Retail is connected to that in some way, right?
- [29:34]
A
Yeah. Well, to your point earlier about needing to know the business side and know how and why fashion makes money, I mean, the store is kind of like the core of it. That's where the consumer buys the product, which everything else is kind of built around. So that makes a lot of sense. I want to ask you two more things that are zooming out a little bit. The first is I mentioned at the top, there's been a lot of layoffs, not just in fashion, but across the entire job market. That's what got me thinking about this topic in the first place. And the reason I reached out to you, but I wanted to get your thoughts on. You mentioned that the job market is challenging in fashion right now. What are the long term effects of not having a super welcoming, super easy, open pipeline for new talent to come into the industry? Do you see that having long term negative effects on fashion if we make it tougher for new graduates and new people to enter the industry?
- [30:28]
B
Absolutely. I think it will make it challenging. But I have a few things to say to that. The first one is you can't make it easy. Right. But don't make it so challenging where the student can't make their way. Right. But also we need support. Once you get into those roles, you need support within those spaces. I think one part of it we all know, DEI is dying down at a fast pace compared to before, which I think is going to be a negative consequences later on in the fashion industry. Right. Some businesses may not see that now, but I think it's going to have negative consequences. Right. So you need that support system to help people to be able to rise and get to where they need to be. Right. So do I think it's going to be challenging and push students away? Maybe so. Because I see it now a little bit. Some students strongly consider about going to another industry because of the challenges that they see at this level. Right. And a lot of times I have to pull them off of the ledge and say, you know, there are great opportunities here and if it's something that you're really passionate about, I think you should go for it. Regardless of where you go, there's going to be challenges along the way. But for people that come to a fashion college, by the time you get here, you're already passionate about it. Right. So the passion is already in you. How. But it dies down at some point and I hate to see that. So how can we bring that back? Right. And I think that's a bigger question that we have to ask the fashion industry. On why. Right, on why that is. Yeah, yeah.
- [32:22]
A
I mean, it's a good point. If you, you don't end up at FIT without some interest in fashion.
- [32:27]
B
Right.
- [32:28]
A
But I can see that interest getting squashed or that maybe just the hope of it being squashed over time as you're hearing about all these challenges and, and on that note, I don't want to end on a depressing note, but I also wanted to ask. This is a topic that I'm wary of shoehorning this into every single conversation, but I do think it's relevant to labor issues. But AI, and I think a lot of the fear that people have is about that automation taking away jobs or especially at the entry level, since I think a lot of the research I've read about AI is that it's best at replacing kind of the lowest level work. So do you see that having any threats or any impact on the job market or particularly at that entry level?
- [33:11]
B
So great question. So my first reaction is I think that AI is not replacing fashion roles, but it is reshaping them. That's my thoughts about it. I think repetitive tasks, basic analysis might be automated. Right. I think it's going to be increasing demand for strategic thinking is what we teach in the classroom. Interpretation, creative direction. But I don't think AI is here to replace fashion roles. But it is definitely going to reshape them. Right. And we have to be prepared for that at a high level. I think that schools are beginning to. I know we are here at FIT integrating AI plus data tools into our fashion curriculum. Across this call, or at least within my classes I can say that. So I think preparing students to use these tools and not compete with them. Right. I think it's a tool that you need to be able to use and use it effectively to make clear thinking and communication and decision making within the role that you're in. Right. So the students now I think it's important that it's a tool that they pull out of their pocket essentially that they're able to use it to make decisions with that. But I don't think that they're going to be replacing fashion roles. But definitely reshaping.
- [34:52]
A
Yes, I think you're right. I just think that that's a concern a lot of students have. So I think that's why it's a big topic. Let me ask you one more thing just so we can end on a slightly more positive note. But I asked you a little bit from the company side what they're looking for in a candidate. Is there anything you would recommend or advise to a hiring manager who's looking at a crop of new graduates looking to fill entry level roles in terms of what they should look for when they're looking for talent, especially if they're trying to fill those entry level roles and select the best people. I mean, what would you say to the companies and the hiring managers?
- [35:31]
B
So I would say right now is look for those students that really have that decision making ability, like I mentioned earlier, also think it's important to have soft skills. Soft skills is a really important one that can take students far looking for that. Also really making sure that we are looking for those business minded, creative. Right. So understanding the business but also understanding outside of that as well. So really looking for, I would say that stronger emphasis on high impact talent. So being able to have impact across the business. I would say for a talent manager, those were some of the things that I would say looking for that. Right. And we're also in the business to make money. Right. That's not an end all be all but refocusing on profitability. So refocusing on that and making sure that the student is able to deliver on that those results. Because you're hiring these people to make money for the business, right? So it's like they want to look for a hybrid of things like this, you know, business minded, creative, making sure that you're being profitable for the business, making sure that you can use the tool to be able to make a decision, have intentional like skill building. Right. So it's I think it can be challenging for because they want a plethora of things in a person. But I think a lot of it's there just but they also need the support system once they are hired, right? The support system to be able to carry them through.
- [37:19]
A
Gotcha. Well, I think that's all the time we have. But I also, Keith, know that the 2026 graduation for FIT is coming up in a couple weeks. So I wish lots of luck to all of your students. But thank you so much for being on the Glossy Podcast and answering all our questions about the fashion job market.
- [37:37]
B
Thank you so much. And that went so fast. Like we could talk about this, this for so much longer, but thank you.
- [37:43]
A
There's a lot to say, but I appreciate you answering all of our questions. Thanks for being here. And thank you for listening to the Glossy Podcast. Don't forget to give us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, wherever you listen to this because that helps us out so much. And don't forget to subscribe to the Glossy Podcast to hear interviews with industry insiders and we can review segments where we break down the news. The new episodes come out every Friday. Until the next time. Thanks for listening.