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The Glossy Podcast
Glossy Podcast: American Eagle's controversy, Vogue’s AI ad, Quince’s mega-valuation — and Ty Haney's return
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- [00:02]
Tenuity Representative
Brands care about two things in media. One they love, the other they hate. Growth moves brands forward. Waste holds them back. Tenuity is an agency built for marketers who demand growth and accountability. Their powerful technology hunts down waste, the biggest growth killer of all, enabling their brilliant people to create growth for brands that defines the category. Tenuity, love growth, hate waste. Find out what your media is really doing @lovegrowth. Hate waste.com.
- [00:43]
Fiers Baglinska
Hello, and welcome back to the Glossy Podcast. I'm your host for this week's episode, International Fashion Reporters of Fiers Baglinska. And I'm covering here for Dani Parisi, who's out on holiday. So I'm here with our editor in chief, Jill Manoff. Hi, Jill, how are you?
- [00:58]
Jill Manoff
Hi.
- [00:58]
Sarah Sprugliner
Hi.
- [00:58]
Jill Manoff
It's fun to podcast with you. Good. How are you?
- [01:01]
Fiers Baglinska
Yeah, great, thank you. And this week we're talking about Sydney Sweeney and the American Eagle Outfitters campaign controversy, Vogue's AI Guess ad. So I guess another controversy in that one, too, as well as the raise for DTC brand Quince. And later in the episode, we have a discussion between editor in Chief John Manoff and senior reporter Sarah Sprugliner about Ty Haney's return to DTC Athleisure Darling Outdoor voices. So a lot to get into, I think a lot of fun topics. So let's start with American Eagle, because obviously this is the biggest story that is happening this week, and we covered it relatively extensively with the launch last week of the campaign. I spoke to CMO Craig Bromers as well as the other members of their team, Ashley Shapiro, who's the VP of marketing. And since then, there's been a lot of news around the campaign. It's relatively interesting take on the jeans versus jeans line, as well as some supporters and naysayers around what the campaign really means and whether there's an issue with the way that it's been presented. So a lot of people have been not very happy with the take that Sydney Sweeney has great genes, which is the tagline of the whole campaign. And the language felt way too close to eugenics messaging, especially given Sweeney's blonde hair, blue eyes. And in recent days, the campaign has been supported by conservatives like Ted Cruz coming out and defending it, saying the outrage was overblown and cancel culture. Other people from the White House, including the communications manager, Stephen Chung, also defended it. And I think it's quite an interesting thing because when the campaign came out, American Eagle's Stock went up 7 to 10% and they tied the proceeds of the campaign to a domestic violence awareness organization with the special Sydney Gene featuring a butterfly on the jeans to signify a kind of allegiance. And I think there's more to be done here around the way that the campaign was presented. But also, I guess, what does it look like to construct a successful campaign nowadays? And is leaning into controversy a good thing? Jill, what's your kind of immediate take on it?
- [03:29]
Jill Manoff
There's so many threads to pull here. Well, first of all, I mean, we don't know people's intentions. However, I would say you wrote about it. Julia, on Modern Retail wrote about it. The Stock went up 7 to 10% for about 24 to 36 hours. Everybody was on board this campaign. We were all excited. Nobody questioned anything. So I would just say, you know, if American Eagle didn't question, I mean, you're going to pull apart your own campaign more than, like, the public. But I don't know. I think this is something that could have fallen through the cracks. It fell through the cracks for everyone for about 36 hours. So if somebody immediately called out, oh, this is a problem. Because if everyone was like, oh, yeah, they should have thought about that. But you know what? Nobody did. So that's why I almost would. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. But at the same time, yeah, there are questions of, like, what they should do now or what makes for it. Just like you said, an impactful campaign. Their whole thing was, we're approaching campaigns differently. We've always done a cast of models, ambassadors. It's always great. It's always had great diversity. And obviously, I think that they have a history of doing so. There was a great story, I think, that NPR did, in relation to this ad, and it had an expert talking and the fact. And he's saying, particularly for fashion or apparel brands, it's hard to stand out this day and age. So if the fact that it was like every ad was starting to look the same with this cast of characters who represented everyone, which. Okay, but how do you cut through the noise, have one celebrity do it differently? They were intentionally trying to do something different. They were intentionally trying to. Yeah. Go against the grain. And it's. It's weird because at the same time, then there's a story from Fast Company that says the simple way American Eagle could have avoided the Sydney Sweeney situation. And guess what the answer was. Have more people with different genes saying the same thing. So it's that cast of characters again. So does every single ad have to be a cast of characters that. No. I. I would say no. Right now, American Eagle people are Saying is this damage control does have an Instagram post on their Instagra with a woman of color saying, great jeans. And it's like one. One post after, like the 12 Sydney Sweeney posts. She's the face of the campaign. I will also add these other brands are not saying anything about jeans, but Sydney Sweeney is a knit girl of the moment. She's like Dr. Squatch and Jimmy Choo. And like, there's a whole list of brands that are working with her right now. She's in a lot of movies and shows. So I think American Eagle got caught up in something. They haven't made a statement. It'll be interesting to see what they do from here. I'm talking a lot. What's your take, Sophia?
- [06:31]
Fiers Baglinska
Yeah, I kind of wanted to go back to the interview that I had with their team and kind of bring up some of their quotes because I think that it's quite hard to ascertain whether they knew what the campaign was or the campaign's reaction was going to be like. But Ashley Shapiro, who's their VP of marketing, said that around about 6 Sydney and kind of the way that she contributed to the campaign that she did evoke this feeling of not taking herself too seriously and having a little bit of mischief or a little wink to her. And she said that the brand really loved that because they've always been around humor. And when they talked about the campaign direction, I guess the way they were going with it, Sweeney even told them when asked how far to push it, she said, let's go. So I'm assuming that she must have had some idea of the impact that this campaign was going to cause. I don't know exactly how far, but it does seem like she leans into controversy consciously, and the brand has done that as well. In the piece that I covered last week, the main point that I was making was that American Eagle has struggled with its sales in recent months. And sometimes leaning into a controversial campaign can give you a boost or at least kind of a moment of being noticed on social media otherwise, which can then correlate to a higher brand awareness. And you mentioned as well that campaign strategy where everyone's doing the same thing, so it's harder to stand out. And I spoke to a PR expert, and he's an expert in crisis pr, Seth Horowitz, who's the president of the Horowitz Agency. He said that the brand was prepared for that backlash, that it was a conscious decision to move forward regardless of the fact that there's a controversy. He said that that could contribute to Sal. I think what he said that was really interesting is that we live in an era now where sales trumps ethics, unintentionally using Trump. Anyway. Brands are gambling more and more, pushing the envelope. Yeah. Speaking of puns. And he said that some voices defending it, like Texas Senator Ted Cruz, or the ones condemning it, like music artist Doja Cat, have made that conversation explode even more. And that kind of polarized attention extends the life of a campaign far beyond what a normal denim ad would ever get. And it's not the first time that denim ads have been controversial. Everything from Calvin Klein to Brooke Shields, I think, and Levi's have used. Yeah, exactly. Like all of those brands have used similar kind of messaging. The kind of jeans, jeans play. And those ads were controversial in their time as well. Most because of how young Brooke was in those ads. And Sydney, at the same time, is kind of leaning into this. So, you know, from. From an ethical standpoint, it's definitely not the right thing to do. But from a brand standpoint, if this campaign remains memorable for customers, it might be enough. I did ask Seth whether, you know, with the days of brand loyalty being so important, you know, is this something that could affect brand loyalty? Could people turn away from the brand completely as a result? And he said, it's likely. But at the same time, the company could also get a bunch of new customers from the American Midwest, for example, as a result. And there has been a movement recently of brands tailoring certain products towards more conservative values, creating products that support the presidential campaign. All of those things are contributing to, I guess, a polarization of brands in general. I think it's quite a tough one for. For brands to stand out. But at the same time, you don't want to alienate customers who have been loyal to you because you make a misdirected campaign.
- [10:23]
Jill Manoff
I know. And there are a lot of conflicting comments from experts because another expert said they definitely didn't know what they were doing, like, with this. And. And I would question. I would. I have a hunch, like, we're not clear, that when they said, yeah, let's go for it, to me, what that looked like, like, the ad where it looked like it was kind of scandalous and what maybe she was referring to was sex. Like, American Eagle has never been sexy. They've never had a girl squirming around in her putting on jeans. I don't know if they have, but, like, it just seemed more sexy than anything they've ever done. Maybe it would have been the same approach had they used like a Megan Fox or I don't know who's sexy and somebody that's not white. Lori Harvey or somebody. I'm just trying to think like it was a beautiful woman squirming around. I just. It would have been a different take for them. So I don't know. And then at the same time, I want to say, when did that video come out? Because jeans and jeans, like, it just seemed like a cheesy pun. I was telling you. It sounded like a dad joke. And it was kind of like, okay, but I wonder if that video came out at the same time where it was so direct, where she was saying the. My. My jeans are blue. Like, talking about her hair color and her eye color. I'm like, if that came late, that makes me cr. Question the intention because it's like American Eagle was going for a scandal or controversy and they're like, you didn't get it. Let's lean in. Anyway.
- [11:51]
Fiers Baglinska
Yeah, no, definitely. And I just wanted to point out as well, in that same week that American Eagle did a campaign, Ralph Lauren also released a campaign inspired by Oak Bluffs, which has been nicknamed the Black Hamptons, headed up by their creative director, James Jeter. And that one's been very well received because of its inclusiveness. And I think in a way, it's kind of a brand study on how to lean into those things in. In the correct way where you're not, I guess, like glamorizing or, you know, kind of overdoing it. Because I think when. When brands do lean in like this, that. That brand loyalty is really important. I'm wondering if this might have been too much of. Of a risk to take.
- [12:33]
Jill Manoff
I was also going to mention as of like today, we're recording on Thursday, there's a lot of discussion also around a Duncan ad that leaned into genetics. It has the actor Gavin Gasolengo. Anyway, the actor from the summer I turned Pretty Adweek just reported on this, but his comment in the. In the video, in the commercial, is this tan genetics? I just got my color analysis back and guess what? Golden summer. So, I mean, ill bad timing for Duncan to say the word genetics. I don't think that anybody would have questioned this silly Duncan ad. But now everyone. He also has blue eyes. He's also white. So yeah, I mean, what a trend to have. We'll probably. Hopefully if anybody is rolling something out on this notion or on this topic theme, they'll.
- [13:22]
Fiers Baglinska
They'll change it. Yeah, no, I agree. I don't think that there's any brand value you can get from not being inclusive right now. And I think that a lot of people will remember the brands that they sided with or didn't if they're making missteps just now because of either political connections or otherwise. Let's move on to our second topic, which is all around Vogue and its Guess AI model. So Vogue just ran its first ad with its completely AI generated model made for the fashion brand Guess. And this wasn't a very creative project. It was a London agency called Seraphine Veloura, which was creating the AI model and putting her into an ad for guests. Now, apparently the deal came through by Instagram DM from Guest CEO Carlos Alberini. They used a real model in the reference shots, but then generated the final look entirely with AI. And as a point to mention, we talk about brands and cost savings a lot recently. I think there's been a lot of talk about brands doing badly financially as a result. I'm not going to lie. But Guess has not been a brand that I've seen as doing particularly well. And AI tools can reduce those costs by up to 70% and lead times. So the amount of time that it goes from picture to final campaign can also get a lot shorter as a result. But people are very angry, not just Guess and the AI agency, but also at Vogue, because, you know, Vogue has relied on editorial imagery for a really, really long time. Some subscribers have said that they're canceling, saying that it's cheap and lazy and calling out how AI generated models are almost always Eurocentric. Most of the time there's barely any plus size or dark skin avatars coming out of these systems. And this, coupled with the rumors of Vogue being sold to Amazon's Jeff Bezos is affecting how people think about the magazine. And Voca said that the ad wasn't an editorial decision. But does that matter if it's appearing in their pages? Jill, what's your take? You know, you're editor in chief. What would you think if this was your mag that you're taking charge of?
- [15:45]
Jill Manoff
You know, our rule is like, if anything is developed using AI, we need to call it out. Like it had a little tiny call out in this ad that it was used by AI, some Seraphine Valora on AI or something like that. Maybe it could have been more apparent. I do think that Vogue is getting a lot of backlash when it wasn't a fashion spread like it. I could like say somebody advertised on our site, one of our a tech vendor type, and they used AI and somebody saw it and all of a sudden we're under fire. I'd be like, this is bull crap. I didn't even know about it. Like often, you know, editorials, not working with sales and publishing, it would really just stink. I'm with you. It's a slippery slope. Definitely. Brands are using AI. When we had our recent E Commerce summit, the whole topic was using AI for creative and advertising. Everyone in the room, hopefully they're owning up to it and being honest. They were saying like people is where we draw the line. Like we'll change outfits on a model that we've had but we're going to use the same model. We're not going to change her, we're not going to change. I don't know, we want to have true to life skin texture, things like that. So they were saying that's a big no. No. Obviously we know that it takes a hit to jobs of creatives and models and all the things. But yeah, at the same time, you know, everyone's using these thick ass filters on like nothing's real that we're seeing online. Like filter, filter, everything's a filter. Like so like what is real? It's, it's really like a scary time. Where are we going with this? Nothing we're seeing is real. Everybody's using AI. I do think that it should be called out when it is used. I don't think it should be used for people. I'm with the brands. What do you think?
- [17:39]
Fiers Baglinska
Yeah, I agree. I think that when you end up using it with people one, it's not realistic enough. I think it ends up looking like AI slop. A lot of brands are kind of turning to it as almost an easy content generation. And I have spoken to companies and brands like Unilever which are putting it through their content but they using it mostly for product. So they're reimagining their product in different setups, using AI for example, but not applying that to cases where it's models. However, I do think that general kind of photo editing software and Photoshop has been an issue before. And granted that is photo editing rather than replacement. So it's also a different thing, but it was a kind of a use of technology that I think even up to this day is still considered quite controversial because you're editing out flaws. I think a lot of these AI models are also the same where you're seeing a kind of picture perfect person who's not real, who's exuding certain kind of Eurocentric beauty standards. What does that say about one about the brand, if that's the people that they're putting forward. But also if Vogue does not screen these things, it will also affect their subscriber rate. All of these things are incredibly important for magazines which are, are dealing with, I guess the kind of financial fallout of having AI generated content in their copy already. So if you're going to erode that trust further, then that's not going to be good for Vogue overall.
- [19:14]
Jill Manoff
No, no, I'm with you all good points. I was zooming in on the woman, the model's fake model's eyes. I'm like, is she also blonde with blue eyes? I think those eyes are blue. Anyway, our last topic of the day is not about a blonde blue eyed person.
- [19:30]
Fiers Baglinska
No, luckily not. We're here to talk about Quints, which just announced its new 4.5 billion valuation. It's the brand that does affordable cashmere, silk and home goods and it also just raised 200 million round. And they sell direct to manufacturers from consumers. And they've positioned themselves in the past as a sustainable alternative to luxury. The that's also played into this massive kind of trend of dupes. But there has been some criticism about one, the material quality as well as the way it works with manufacturers because it seems to have some very strict terms. So Jill, have you bought anything from Quince and what did you think?
- [20:13]
Jill Manoff
I have not. However, I was on the site as of this morning, I was like, wow, they really know what they're doing. Because talk about dupe. Like they're really going for all the hot, hot things. That their fragrance looks just like Byredo there. They've got this organic mushroom coffee which is like all the rage and wellness. They've got this shapewear, very nude colors that looks like dead ringer for skims. Like, come on. And then they're doing all the price comparisons. They've got their sandals, they're comparing it to Tory Burch and a blazer, they're comparing to Veronica Beard. And then they've got this like kids ad that looks like, I mean, I don't know how much cost savings compared to a Gap, but it looks like a Gap ad. Exactly. So they know what they're doing on Dupes and now they're going hard on or they're building out a luxury beauty marketplace. So it seems like they have like grander ambitions than than just the dupes. But I was questioning because all of their luxury beauty skin care is is marketplace. It's not their own brand. I have a hunch maybe that has to do with like proprietary formulas and it's not as easy to dupe or they don't even want to go there. And they also want to get the beauty consumer. I don't know, tbd, but yeah, they're doing something right. I haven't shopped there and for a long time I was comparing them to this other direct from factory type of company, just like it, called Italic. They Both launched in 2018 doing the same damn thing, except Italic leverage a membership model. You had to be a member to take advantage. I think you had to, to take advantage of their products. Definitely Italic hasn't taken off in the same way Quince, anybody can shop. But yeah, I'm watching from afar. I don't hear anybody saying like, I got this at Quince. And then you would question, if it's just a dupe, why not go even cheaper and get it on Amazon? But I guess the investors believe in them. Have you bought anything?
- [22:08]
Fiers Baglinska
No, I mean, I don't think that Quince is as popular in the UK and it does remind me of similar kind of dupish models, kind of what you have from Beauty Pie, for example. That seems like the same kind of vibe where they're trying to do very kind of classic basics, but better. Obviously. I don't know if the valuation is accurate. I kind of feel like it might be a little bit overblown just because Quince has been getting some stick recently. I think for that material components for that sustainability kind of angle. And also just finally you mentioned the cost kind of undercutting, which I think is a big thing. Qince's prices are still relatively high compared to what you'd be getting from Temu and Shein and Amazon. So is that as a result going to be a continued problem for them if people are finding these pieces elsewhere or if other brands continue improving their design and are able to offer it at a lower cost. I don't know, but I just feel like it wouldn't be a lasting model.
- [23:11]
Jill Manoff
I know I was digging into the model because I was, I thought, I got confused that Quince was the one with the membership. And so, you know, we talk a lot about brands pulling back on digital ads and that and those direct connections are so important. So I was thinking this investor iconic was like really valuing all their direct connections. I mean, maybe they have those and they're just like regular customers, but I. Yeah, question mark. Question mark. I kind of don't get it, but maybe I'm just not their target customer.
- [23:44]
Fiers Baglinska
No, I mean, maybe Not. But I think that there's definitely more to dig into behind the scenes. I think that there's been a lot of brands which have taken some accountability for their supply chains. With a company like Quint's, it's not really the same kind of relationship where you're going to one factory. Chances are they're working with multiples for each product. And as a result, I think that sustainability angle might be a little bit sketchy. Brand watchdogs like Good on youn and eco stylists has given them bad marks for transparency and there's no verified proof of living wages or carbon reporting. And even some of the reviews have said that although Quince is supposedly leading with this dupangle around quality, that the products don't actually last as long as they say. So I think that that's also a bit of a problem if you're looking at such a high valuation, but you might be kind of showing up some cracks in the firmament.
- [24:40]
Jill Manoff
Yes. And if they lean into luxury, however, as luxury brands continue to increase prices and they can continue to show comparisons of whatever kind they're using and people are pulling back money, pulling back on their investments and their budgets. Yeah, maybe also that's where iconic sees hope. So we'll see.
- [25:00]
Fiers Baglinska
Yeah, definitely. I think they've definitely got some moves coming up as a result of this raise and this valuation. Are they going to be shifting into more wholesale international? Are they going to be doubling down on direct to consumer considering, I guess that a lot of brands right now will be contending with comparison sites or with dupe shopping, Whether that's through AI agents or with other things, that is something that quints for them at least it might benefit them if they continue offering good product that is well received. However, if they don't, then we'll see what that fallout might be.
- [25:37]
Jill Manoff
That's really a brilliant point. Like somebody's googling this skims and then the quints look like comes up. That's cheaper. Yeah. Yeah, you're so right. Yep. Good call, Sophia.
- [25:51]
Fiers Baglinska
Thank you. Well, I think that that's all the time that we have today, but thank you so much, Joel, for coming on the episode and digging into so many of these, you know, hot topic issues right now.
- [26:03]
Jill Manoff
Yeah, it was so fun. Thanks for having me.
- [26:05]
Fiers Baglinska
And Jill, I know that you're on the podcast segment this week with Sarah to talk about her story. Tell me a little bit more about what's going on with Tai Haney and Outdoor Voices to bring our listeners in.
- [26:17]
Jill Manoff
Yeah, we were among the first to share what the heck is happening with Outdoor Voices. So yeah, I was excited to dig into Sarah's story with Sarah. She told me, told us, talked about the fact that, you know, Ty has been back with the brand since August. The investors kind of pulled her back in and that they're going for a new fresh feel that's not about those color block black leggings and that workout dress. It's a little bit, I don't know, they called seems a little bit fresher, a little, a little bit more of an edge, kind of flirty. There's some black in the mix. They've got this great kind of juicy couture esque hoodie. So. So we'll see. There's some nostalgia to it. And also I would just say it's an all new 2.0 outdoor voices. So yeah, listen to the interview. It's great.
- [27:18]
Tenuity Representative
You already know how beauty lovers treat their favorite products. They cut open the tube, scrape the last bit of blush and make every drop count. So why waste your media to nuity helps beauty brands eliminate waste and scale what works. Media and measurement live under one roof so you can see what's working, what's wasting. Budget and where to go next. Love growth. Hate waste. Waste is the biggest growth killer of all. It hides in bloated budgets, broken attribution and vague assumptions. Tinuity doesn't tolerate it. Instead they track it down, expose it and eliminate it. Because every wasted dollar is growth that never had a chance. Don't let your media go to waste. Visit lovegrowth hate waste.com.
- [28:04]
Jill Manoff
Hey Sarah, thanks so much for being here y'. All. Those who don't know, I'm here with Sarah Sprook Finer, who heads up our glossy pop content and so much more. Sari. You want to introduce yourself?
- [28:16]
Sarah Sprugliner
I mean that is exactly what I do. But for the past four and a half years, I have run yes, our pop vertical, which sort of focuses on beauty, fashion, wellness and the intersections with pop culture. A lot of Gen Z, a lot of TikTok and sort of how all of those worlds come together.
- [28:37]
Jill Manoff
Oh my gosh. And for everyone listening, we have an event you can come to Pop NYC on September 5th. Look it up. Consumer facing. I won't go into it, but good stuff. But we're here to cover. You just did a great story on outdoor Voices. Really catching up on all that's going on there. The founder Ty Haney is back, which is huge news. We'll get into why that matters, but I wanted to start at the beginning kind of the backstory and. And yeah, why we do care how I remember outdoor voices. Known for tennis dresses. They had this kind of moment known for their color block leggings and their activewear sets. Interesting that they always position themselves as like a recreation brand and. And really talking about being more about fun and doing things. Is there. Is there a tagline than performance and wicking properties and all the things that other brands were talking about? Do you have any other memories or. Sarah, does that ring true for you as well?
- [29:36]
Sarah Sprugliner
Absolutely. I. Yeah, I would totally focus on that sort of difference of that doing things versus like, you know, shredding at the gym or whatever. The exercise dress is interesting because the brand originally launched in 2013 and the exercise dress actually came like five or so year years later in 2018. Those color block leggings are what I really think of. I used to wear them. I was actually joking with Ty. I used to work out of the wing and I looked like a catalog for that era of direct to consumer everything. The Everlane, the Warby Parker. It was just all of these brands that had received a lot, a lot of funding and a lot of them sort of crashed down from that. And OV definitely crashed down from that. And that model, you know, didn't necessarily sustain, but the doing things, you know, just the same way that in beauty we talk about glossier, however it may be doing now, having sort of set the standard in terms of marketing and aesthetic for a lot of what we see in beauty today, I think of OV doing the same for a lot of marketing across the board. They would do these community runs and, you know, that is like, everyone does that now. Skincare brands, makeup brands, everyone does these community hangouts and like, you know, how can we connect with our real people, customers? And I do, I do trace a lot of that back to ovi's sort of casual. You can hang out with us, you can run with us in. In our color blocked leggings, sort of original aesthetic.
- [31:20]
Jill Manoff
Oh, my gosh. Definitely such a pioneer in this space. Like you said, everyone latching on. I'm going to do a quick outlook timeline and then we'll get into what's happening now. So Ty founded the brand. I think you mentioned 2013. It had its peak valuation of 110 million by 2018. Ty exited the company in 2020. This was pandemic times. It's probably a blur for everyone listening, but at that time, around before that time, Mickey Drexler had been brought in to scale the business. The iconic Mickey Drexler Behind J. Crew and Gap and all the things and now Alex Mill, but for the company. The company filed bankruptcy and 2023 closed 16 stores. In June of last year, 2024, the company was acquired by Consortium Partners, who also, as you covered, owns Draper James and Jonathan Adler and some of these other, other celebrity or like, I don't know, well known founder brands and secret, secret nobody knew until you, you broke the news. And some and some others wrote about it yesterday that Ty has been actively involved with the company since August of last year, kind of scheming. So, so what's been going down? Like there was some buzz starting what, a week and a half ago, I.
- [32:35]
Sarah Sprugliner
Think really just last week. So Consortium had purchased the brand and the main guy behind Consortium was connected to one of OV's original investors. He was introduced to Ty. He said, you know, we'd love to get you back involved. Like you said, that was last August. Ty said, you know, she really, she really emphasized it. She wasn't pressured. She thought about it. She got to know the team. At this point, it's important to remember that she has two other companies. She has Tyb, which is a digital platform for brands to sort of build community and sort of gamify community. And she has Joggy, which is an energy drink brand. So she started getting to know them. She's. She kept using the word re engage. Did I want to re engage with Outdoor Voices? So she decided, you know, yes, I do. And then last week, Outdoor Voices clears its Instagram grid. It goes empty and their bio became something like brb doing things or coming back, you know, doing things soon. Something like that. A riff on the original tagline and the account follows just one person, Tai Haney. A couple of people pick up on this. Ink writes the story and then, you know, eventually I get outreach on the back end, you know, would you like to talk to Ty? She is indeed coming back. And at that point, you know, ourselves and a number of other trade outlets conduct interviews with Ty about what is indeed happening.
- [34:14]
Jill Manoff
Yes. It's so wild, the buzz surrounding the fact that Ty may be coming back. Like you said, Ink covered it. I keep talking about retail therapy. Talked about it. They're located in Austin. I think the brand had its headquarters in Austin or still does. Like, what is it? Is it that she was one of. Ty was one of the early, well known girl bosses or girl women founders that really had her own presence. I don't know. Now she has about 90,000 followers on Instagram. She's very engaging. Like, is it just about her and, and she made an impact then and people knew her face like what do you think it is?
- [34:51]
Sarah Sprugliner
Yeah, I, I really, I do think that's a big part of it. She has a sort of cool girl factor that people would want to wear something with her stamp of approval. And OV has sort of been stuck in a time capsule for the past five years. So it's sort of been, you know. Yeah. If you maybe wanted to, if you really wore out, you know, your cloud knit sweatpants and you wanted a new pair, you could get them. But there was nothing new to return to the brand for. I'm not kidding you. Like I have a gift card there that's just been sitting in a drawer for five years and I'm really hoping I can use it on some of the new stuff because one of the things that really most excited me was they, they brought in a designer who had worked at, at Cast, Lotta and Simcha and real design houses rather than someone that has a technical background, you know, came from like Nike or Aloe or direct competitor. And Ty spoke a lot about, you know, in the first iteration of OV feeling like she couldn't really play into like maybe those layering pieces. But now that is so much of how I think. I don't want to speak for all women of course, but like how people dress. You're wearing your leggings, you're wearing the socks over the leggings, the sneakers, the, the oxford button down over maybe the cropped sports bra, the jacket over the oxford shirt. And how this time around she feels like she has a permission that she didn't have the first time around to play into that lifestyle element. I was really surprised and Ty said the theme and it's one thing she's the founder of the brand. Of course people are going to reach out to her. But on my end as a random reporter, I got a number of DMs from friends from college, people that don't work in the industry being like, wait, I'm actually really excited for this. I loved this brand. So I do think there is an, a genuine appetite which again I'm surprised by because it's not like the market hasn't developed. It's not like you don't now have like the forms and the set actors. But there's something, I do think there's something about ov. Ty spoke about them having a wide open lane for recreation and that being their North Star and maybe focusing, you know, she spoke about focusing a lot on Skorts and dresses and I think a lot of women agree with her that they want that. So I'm excited. I still haven't seen the full collection. I've seen a number of pieces. They're rolling out next week and it's, I think it's going to be really interesting to. It's definitely. I'm going to continue to watch this.
- [37:35]
Jill Manoff
Yes, I signed up for access to the new collection on their site. Did you sign up?
- [37:39]
Sarah Sprugliner
Oh my God, totally. And I mean the Tyb fans will have access to this, you know, diamante zip up hoodie that says doing things in rhinestones which I think is like a very, you know, juicy couture type of vibe. Nostalgia. Exactly, exactly.
- [37:59]
Jill Manoff
I love that. Well, I like that you brought up Tyb. I wanted to touch on her two other companies because like, I mean she hasn't been twiddling her thumbs. This is a powerhouse. So she started Joggy energy drink sold at Target and others, other retailers. Tyb has credibility. It's, it's used by the biggest brands in the business. Tell a little bit about what, what, what they're up to. You've written about it.
- [38:21]
Sarah Sprugliner
Yeah. So I, I did a big story on Tyb when, when Rare Beauty joined the platform and a number of big brands set active is on Tyb say is on Tyb. Let me just pull up some others. Glossier Ouai do topicals and basically it's an iteration of a loyalty program so users can get points for things like submitting selfies, creating UGC essentially providing companies with like data, you know, answering questions about what they're interested in, what they like and providing insights and content and those become ways for them to be rewarded. Whether it's like discounts, you know, different things like that. And from what I understand was really inspired by Ty's experience running ov what she learned about sort of what, what consumers really want sort of to, to feel like they feel appreciated by the companies that they are in fact giving their hard earned money to.
- [39:37]
Jill Manoff
Nice. Well it, I don't know, it reminds me of the direct to consumer model. We talked about that. You talked about the fact like the overfunding and investing in marketing and that model didn't work. She is starting relaunching the brand, still selling direct for the time being. Did she have anything more to say about that model or plans to expand beyond that in the years ahead?
- [40:02]
Sarah Sprugliner
Yeah, it sounds like it's early days but they definitely want to get back into retail, want to go global and that, you know, I Did ask, you know, what about all the kind of slander of, of companies like Consortium that we see on TikTok of XPE ruined X, you know, beloved brand. There's. That's the whole genre on, on TikTok. But I think for her it sounded like it came down to, well, you know, that might be true, but Consortium is able to provide an infrastructure and support that ultimately is a better model than raising money that you can't necessarily afford to pay back and then needing to raise more money and you know, it's like just a really vicious cycle that many of those millennial era brands are still sort of trapped in.
- [41:04]
Jill Manoff
Yes. Well, speaking of, there's been a lot of backlash of the direct to consumer model. There's been a big. There was a lot of backlash in her day. She had a really interesting quote. I think it was in potentially vogue business. But she talked about it's the end of takedowns. Like takedowns weren't good for women wanting to be founders and, and how this is like a new era. Like, she's definitely of the girl boss era. She definitely had a lot of flack when she was leaving the business and people questioning what went down when they probably didn't know much. Did she, I don't know, add anything on that front or maybe it's more welcoming environment or maybe she does feel like she's more supported. Anything there?
- [41:44]
Sarah Sprugliner
Yeah, I mean, basically she, it was interesting. She said that she's really grateful for it for, you know, what she learned. She said that 90% of building OV was, was really amazing and 10% was really hard. I know that when she was ultimately like pushed out of the company, you know, I don't think we ever really know what goes behind the scenes and, you know, who did what it was. I remember then it being attributed to like generational differences between her and Mickey and stuff like that that I'm going off of other reporting from the time. But it was right around the time she had her first baby. Certainly, like the world has not been kind to female founders and the reporting of. On female founders, I do think that, you know, they are often held to a very different standard or things are reported even by female reporters to be really real about it in a way that male reporters just get away with. Excuse me, male founders get away with things differently or the microscope is not placed on them in the same way. So in a way I was surprised to hear her say, you know, I'm grateful for it all. I think that I, you know, obviously Our stories are very reported. They're, they're not, you know, profiles. But to me, and I think I did say this in the story, she came across very Zen, like she had, you know, just done a lot of reflecting on that time and you know, obviously I would assume that she has learned a lot through the process of building two more companies. You know, I'm sure she has all kinds of thoughts and feelings. I'm also sure that she was careful. She was going through doing a barrage of interviews on, you know, Thursday, Friday, over the weekend even, I think of making a splash with ov. I don't even want to call it 2.0 because if you look at, you know, what the company's been through, it's kind of more than 2.0 at this point. But yeah, it's, it, it did seem like she sort of had thought a lot about what she'd been through and sort of been able to call the good and the bad from it, if that makes sense. A little, a little rambly there.
- [43:58]
Jill Manoff
No, I think that she described it to you as like a learning experience and like, you appreciative that that was good to hear.
- [44:04]
Sarah Sprugliner
Yeah.
- [44:05]
Jill Manoff
Well, it sounds like she's making like, I always call it my zoom wardrobe, like leggings and button down shirts. I like that.
- [44:13]
Sarah Sprugliner
Hey, totally.
- [44:15]
Jill Manoff
What can we, what do you think we can expect from the company? I mean, I don't know if you, you know, much kind of as an insider on this, on this discussion, but she described it as, you know, her hopes of becoming the next Patagonia. I just, I mean, probably just like, like the level or maybe the thoughtfulness that goes into that brand. But what do you think she meant by that? And what, what else, what more can we anticipate?
- [44:37]
Sarah Sprugliner
Yeah, I mean, it's funny, that definitely caught my attention just because of the unbelievable philanthropy at Patagonia. And I would definitely want to hear more about what her hopes are there because that is such an exceptional and one of one kind of company. She was definitely talking about longevity when she said that. But, but I would point to just really small details, actually. Like the way that if you look at the back of the bike shorts pictured in the story, the logo is cursive. It's not this, you know, kind of sans serif font that we affiliate with the, like again, that millennial D to C era where everything sort of was millennial pink and started to kind of look the same. And this hyper minimalist. I would point to that, that kind of like untraditional departure from like, again, the way that brands like Nike and even the more modern Aloe set, where things feel just a little more. Even if they can feel like you're wearing the set to grab a matcha, I think that cursive, I don't know, it said something to me that felt like, this is different. This is maybe more feminine with all the dresses. So I'm definitely watching that. I know they worked with little planes to design the new logo, and as mentioned in the story, they also brought back some members of the original team. So I think it's going to be a blend of a kind of nostalgia and then obviously, updates and modernization. I'm excited to see more of the full collection next week.
- [46:22]
Jill Manoff
Same. And I was gonna bring up that logo as well, because not only is it a different font, it's bolder. Like, maybe I think they're betting on the fact that people just are ready for something fresh. We haven't seen that in a long time. To end it, to cap this off, like, do you see the competitors of this new. New outdoor voices, whatever we call it, as being like the aloes, the Lululemon, the. I don't know, the Maybe said active. Like, who do you see as being the. I don't know, the competitors at the moment?
- [46:54]
Sarah Sprugliner
You know, it's hard because I actually, like, really want to see the full collection. I think that, like, you know, if you want an exercise dress to really sweat in, maybe you're still going to go to Lululemon, right? But maybe if you're the kind of girl who wants to, like, hike Runyon in an exercise dress or whatever, and you want to really look chic in it, then you're going to pick this new OV1 that we do have imagery of with the top stitching and. And it. And it feels more fashion forward. And you're going to pair it with, like, I don't know, the. Like Loewe on Running Collab. Like, you know, like, I. Ty spoke about feeling like there. There is room for everyone. I know for me, like, I'm not loyal. I'm. I'm. I'm wearing Aloe one day and I'm wearing Form the next, and I'm wearing Set the next, and I'm wearing Free People movement, which is a totally different aesthetic the next. So I do kind of agree with her that there's room for everyone. And. And I think people play around with their aesthetics more the way that it's been positioned to me so far. I do see. I agree that there's this lane for maybe like more casual recreation. Whereas the Aloes will still be able to own that like matching set set for your actual reformer class. But I definitely will be watching the space.
- [48:20]
Jill Manoff
Yeah, I think and I think like what you said, they are leaning into more of a. A fashion front. A fat going for a fashion girl. I. I do either I followed followed Ty or just started following Ty. I was happy to see hey, she posted your story but also she had a screenshot of a conversation where somebody sent her a screenshot of the outdoor voices dress or tennis dress and said oh it looks so loewe. And clearly she liked that she reposted it. So yeah, definitely. Maybe she'll get the fashion girls. I don't know what fashion girls are shopping now in terms of activewear, recreation wear.
- [48:57]
Sarah Sprugliner
I would also point to Adenola, which I've covered a bunch in the past couple months because they also do a good job at having like you know, like active leggings and sets. But then they do some like button downs and shorts and you know, I'm sure that's not as big a part of the business. I obviously don't have the numbers there, but we definitely are seeing active brands want to play in lifestyle as well. But I think that again, like I was impressed and I guess this sounds a little dramatic but inspired by the decision to hire for from fashion houses because I think that will bring a unique perspective.
- [49:35]
Jill Manoff
Watch this space. Exciting times. Sarah, thank you for being here. This is awesome. Thank you for catching us up.
- [49:42]
Sarah Sprugliner
Of course.
- [49:47]
Jill Manoff
That's all for this episode. Our theme music is by Otis MacDonald. If you liked this episode, be sure to share it with someone else you think would. Thanks for listening to the glossy podcast that.