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- [00:00]
Danny Parisi
Foreign.
- [00:03]
Jill
Hey guys, it's Jill. You may not know this about me considering all of our fashion talk on the podcast, but I am a big time browser. A shopper, not so much. Part of that is because I'm a sucker for a statement look and I know that the cost per wear is just not going to be there. When I wear something once it has its little moment on Instagram and then I'm on to the next outfit, usually for a glossy event. That's why when it comes to fashion, I actually borrow most everything when that's an option. And I've recently become a fan of Vivrel, which in terms of designer accessories has options upon options upon options. We're talking millions of dollars in new inventory every single week. Vivre is an exclusive fashion and lifestyle membership, unlocking access to thousands of hard to find handbags, jewelry, watches and diamonds. You can just pay a monthly fee and then you make the rules. You can rotate often or you can feel free to take a while with that Celine style that you just can't let go. So check it out. Go to www.virel.com and apply for a membership today using code GLOSSY to get 50% off your first three months of membership. The code also allows you to skip the Virel wait list. That's v I v r-e l l e.com use code GLOSSY for 50% off the first three months of membership. Join Glossy sister brand Modern Retail for their annual marketing Summit taking place April 20th through 22nd in Huntington Beach, California, where brand leaders from Amica Beauty, Thredup, PacSun and many more. We'll dive into how they're navigating a marketing landscape that is changing more quickly than ever before. This summit will equip you with the knowledge, strategies and connections you need through our one on one meetings, working groups, casual networking and more. Don't wait. We're offering $200 off with the promo code SUMMIT2026NOSPACES. Again, that's S u m m I t2026NOSPACES. Go to ModernRetail Co MarketingSummit to learn more and secure your path. Brands and retailers may be eligible for a complimentary pass, so apply on the event page to see if you qualify.
- [02:32]
Danny Parisi
Hello and welcome back to the Glossy Podcast. I'm your host, senior fashion reporter Danny Parisi, and I'm here with our international reporter, Zofia Zviglinska. Hello Zofia, how are you?
- [02:42]
Yeah, good, thank you. Lovely to be on again.
- [02:45]
Yes, thank you for being here. We have a lot going on the super bowl just ended. The Winter Olympics are happening now. New York Fashion Week just started as of this recording on Thursday, but we're gonna save our New York Fashion Week discussion for next week. The NBA All Star weekend is also happening this weekend. And as I understand it, Zofia, we have a basketball themed episode today. Can you tell us a little bit about who you spoke with this week?
- [03:08]
I had the pleasure of having stylist Courtney Mays on whose client roster includes Karl Anthony Townes, DeAndre Jordan, Kevin Love, Anthony Anderson, as well as WNBA and women's sports stars like Brianna Stewart, Sue Bird and Megan Rapinoe. And we talked a little bit about the NBA, obviously, and kind of what goes into styling the players, but also the rules around it. So two decades ago, the NBA introduced a controversial dress code that was kind of meant to formalise and some critics say sanitise player appearance. And as a result, I think fashion's now become one of the most extravagant ways. I guess that players are showing up either through tunnel walks or kind of off the pitch. And I think that's been. Sorry. Off the court. And that's been something that's, I guess, been very interesting from a styling perspective, from a fashion perspective. So we went into kind of the sports, the culture side of it, the kind of history and backstory of her styling work and how, how she's seen the contracts between brands and athletes evolve, as well as kind of her role in all of this, because a lot of the times she was talking about styling people and not being able to pull clothes for them, either because of style differences or because the brand just doesn't know that there's an opportunity there. So I think that was really interesting. And yeah, it was a really great discussion.
- [04:37]
Yeah, I mean, we've spoken on this podcast a couple of times about the NBA being at the forefront, at least in the US of the sports fashion crossover, which I think is definitely one of the most interesting developments we've covered in the last couple years. Yeah, I'm excited to hear it. I have not listened to the conversation yet, but I'm excited to hear what you guys talk about.
- [05:02]
So, hi, everyone. I'm here on the glossy podcast talking about how to dress an NBA player and how that has evolved. The current season is 20 years from the NBA implementing a dress code to enforce professionalism. As it said, how did that dress code lead to the way athletes approach fashion today? And I'm here to answer that question with Courtney Mays, who is the stylist for Karl Anthony Townes and her other clients include DeAndre Jordan, Brianna Stewart, Sue Bird, Megan Rapineau, Chris Paul, Kevin Loves, and Anthony Anderson. We have quite a list. Hi, Courtney. It's lovely to have you on here.
- [05:38]
Courtney Mays
Thank you for having me.
- [05:40]
Danny Parisi
I know that you've dressed so many interesting players here, and it's something that has changed significantly over time. You know, I think with your career spanning such a large segment of the NBA and the various rules that were changed over that time period. I think you've been working since 2007. What do you think has been the biggest change from when you started to. To now?
- [06:07]
Courtney Mays
I think overall, there's just a greater emphasis on fashion from the league side, from pop culture. I think when I started, where we are now was sort of the goal is really to converge sport and style and open the doors for athletes to be a part of fashion conversations. And I think now, obviously, this is. We're in this moment where we're seeing sports and fashion become almost synonymous or sort of help each other. They're like echo chambers where, you know, we're talking about athletes as influencers and tastemakers, and you're seeing them with these, you know, grand endorsement deals and billboards in the fashion space. And I. I'm proud because I think I was. You know, they say I'm kind of like a vet or like the. The auntie in the styling game, but I'm proud because when I started, that was. That was the goal, and I think that I was able to be a part that journey in an interesting way.
- [07:06]
Danny Parisi
Yeah, I love that. And just a little bit of context for our listeners. It might be that you see amazing style on NBA athletes now, but 20 years ago, there was an introduction of a dress code, and it said that all players must dress in business or conservative attire while arriving and departing during a scheduled game, as well as when conducting official NBA business. They had a whole list of banned items, including jeans, hats, durags, T shirts, large jewelry, sneakers, and hiking boots. Specifically, it was Timberland type boots, which I thought was very weird. And it was among a number of other things that were included in this ban. Can you give us a little bit more context as to what it was like, styling when this came into play, how it was enforced, and how did you kind of interact with it as a stylist?
- [07:58]
Courtney Mays
Yeah, I think it's interesting when we talk about the dress code and just hearing you listen some of the things that were a part of the restrictive list, I think that it. As a consumer, as a fan of the Sport. I see it almost as a way to disconnect from hip hop culture. I think we know that the NBA hip hop culture is so connected. We even joke, like, players want to be music rappers, and rappers want to be players. It's kind of always the thing. And so during a time when, you know, early 2000s, late 90s, like, baggy clothes, showing your jewelry, that was the style that was part of the moment. And I think that it's interesting to hear, like, the league specifically calling out, like, Timberland boots, which is crazy now because you see so many. Timberland is kind of one of the brands that are always, like, great, we love to loan for your players, and has kind of become like a street style staple now. But when I started, it was like, I was an intern maybe in 2007. And I think that our goal was really to connect sport and style. So it's great to see it now because what we were trying to achieve 20 years ago is kind of what's happening now. But it's unfortunate because I think that there is a world where we can see where the league was disconnecting from hip hop and, in a way, blackness, and trying to use style as a means to do that. We talk about the malice at the palace where, you know, fans and players got into it, and it became a whole thing. And that was probably the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of, you know, how the league wanted to be presented or perceived by, you know, mass culture. It's crazy that, in a way, they understood the power of fashion. So to take away that was their attempt to strip players of their identity. But I love that what we've done is flipped it on its side and made it part of the storytelling, and then in turn, have made it the sort of moment when you, when it comes to the sports watching experience, you care as much about the game as you care about what insert whatever player is wearing. And it's become so much part of the conversation. And so I hate that David Stern kind of used that moment to strip away some of the identity because it was cool. Like AI with his braids and his baggy jeans, his Timberland boots, even Kobe. Like, I think that was such a cool part of the sport because you saw the guys sort of emulating what they loved off the court. But I think what's cool about now, and I have a lot of respect for Adam Silver, is that he's embraced fashion as a way to engage with the game. And I think that now the dress code is not as Strict, because I think you're seeing that the league is understanding that seeing the players and their very diverse style sensibility helps with viewership and helps with fans engaging with their favorite players and therefore the sport.
- [11:21]
Danny Parisi
Yeah, and with brands too. I mean, Timband basically rose up because of that. It's so weird to see it like 20 years on. That's the moment that Timbland became cool. And I think those brand moments now that have come up as a result of all of these amazing style moments for these players has essentially defined what player style looks like across other sports too. I think that kind of branding and identity building is so key to what a stylist does. Tell me about how you go about that and maybe some of the ways that you've evolved these styles for some of these NBA players.
- [12:05]
Courtney Mays
Yeah, I think in a best case scenario, when you're working with a player, you're also working hand in hand with their team. And so you're talking to their agents and their managers and you're wanting and you're talking, talking to them. I think my biggest takeaway is that this is about relationships and building those relationships within your team. So you want to know what they're interested in, you want to know what their goals are off the court, what they stand for. And I think that my role is to figure out ways that fashion can be a platform to have those conversations and to build their business off the court. I think when you're thinking about brand deals, obviously I'm not necessarily the person that brings that to the table. Like, I'm not the agent or the manager, but when there is a fashion opportunity there, I want to make sure that it's something authentic to that player. I want to make sure that there's an opportunity to engage in a brand that is something that they actually believe in and that they stand for, and also that it helps to build their presence off the court. I mean, I think specifically, I think about Chris Paul. There was a time when he was the president of the Players association for the NBA. And so we were really having conversations about, okay, yes, Chris is this leader on the court and he's a point guard. And so much of that is about leadership and steering a team. But I think also as a president of, you know, the players association, that sort of leadership on the court has to be reflected off the court. And so how can we use fashion, whether it's through suiting, whether it's in business casual ways to reflect that sort of leadership? And I think that was the first time that we had real conversations about the way fashion should show up. And I think that that's really impacted the way that he carries himself, you know, even post his presidency, because it's really about, you know, who he is as a player, but who he is as a businessman and who he is as a leader in his field. And so we were looking at brands that could reflect that. Whether that was, you know, the Ralph Laurens of the world, the Tom Ford's of the world, you know, or even, you know, I love to work with brands that are more accessible and friendly to the everyday person. But I think that's what's important is really kind of engaging with what their goals are off the court and what brands represent that in a great way.
- [14:41]
Danny Parisi
That's so interesting as well that these brands now become almost part of the lexicon. Ralph Lauren is the business style. That's the one that you use for building up a kind of leader. That's really interesting. I know that there's been a lot of changes in terms of, I guess, how professional these contracts are now and how you're thinking about the work with brands. You know, when we were speaking last week, it seemed like there was a lot of kind of conversations in your early days where you are asking brands to even consider these players. Obviously they're already kind of outside their parameters. They're not sample size. These are players who are very tall, usually very big. And as a result, brands might not be so keen on dressing them. Tell me more about that kind of early stage and what that was like asking brands for products and kind of, I guess, selling them on the idea that NBA is something worth investing in by putting these players in these looks.
- [15:43]
Courtney Mays
Yeah, I think this conversation is not even like an early stage. This is a current sort of struggle. I think it's interesting because there's a lot of misconception about the way athletes and celebrities get clothes in general. I think as a regular person watching an award show or something on tv, you're thinking, oh, insert whatever designer is sort of throwing whatever clothes, they get everything for free. Like, look at, you know, I think there's that sort of beautiful illusion of it, the glamorous illusion of it. I think what's lost is that there's people like me, you know, PR agents, you know, whole teams of people that are really championing these athletes and celebrities and saying, hey, we would love to work with you. We want to be a part of your storytelling. Lots of emails, lots of phone calls and texts. Lots of relationship buildings within in the brand And a little bit of begging, like, I mean, of just saying, hey, look at me. I think there's a process that goes with it. You know, when we first started, no brands were not. When we first started, you know, fashion was not interested in sports, which is crazy, because for me, fashion and sport has always been connected. I think we look at, you know, Magic Johnson, Clive David, like, we throw. There's people that from back, you know, in the 70s that were cool and wearing these oversized furs and like, you know, fashion, sport, music has always been, you know, connected. But I think that there's a little bit of hesitancy. Well, first of all, I'll say I think the fashion world, as we know, is extremely exclusive. It's, you know, who, you know and all of that. And if we're being honest, like, I think sometimes they pick their token few people that they want to celebrate and stand behind. And so then it becomes, you know, a real big hunt to try to find and celebrate the brands that do want to work with you. And so I think that's why I always sort of lean towards emerging designers and emerging artists and. And smaller brands that are excited to be a part of the conversation. Sometimes the luxury community, although it would seem, if you read all the headlines, is like, we love sports, and we're putting the guys on the covers of magazines and we're doing all the things. But I think when it comes down to, like, the brass tacks of it all, sometimes that push to get clothes is a struggle. I think there's a fear about size. I mean, we know, and I know personally, like, there's a lot of size discrimination in the fashion space. And so that becomes a struggle trying to explain, you know, we need, you know, a 38 pant or a 52 jacket versus, you know, the 36 jacket. That's the sample size for insert whatever actor. So I think there's a little bit of hesitancy there, but I will say it is getting better. I feel like showrooms are now expanding their size offering or at least having more than one size, and then. Or they're allowing stylists to pull from store from inventories that you have access to things that you need in the appropriate sizing. But I mean, if I could, I could break down the entire process because I feel like there's, like, people don't understand, like, how this actually happens. But I think that it's. It's interesting because you're dealing with, like, you know, the size issue you're dealing with. For me, I always think there's a little bit of a race issue there. We're still talking about black men, queer women, black women in a league that, you know, is made up of all of us. And so I think there's a little bit of.
- [19:39]
Danny Parisi
Hesitancy.
- [19:40]
Courtney Mays
Yeah. And I think that sucks. Like, I think it's, I think it's a terrible space. But I do think that there are people that are excited to be a part of the sports community, and I think that those are the people that I will continue to uplift and be a part of their community as well.
- [20:05]
Jill
Hey guys, it's Jill. You may not know this about me considering all of our fashion talk on the podcast, but I am a big time browser, a shopper, not so much. Part of that is because I'm a sucker for a statement look. And I know that the cost per wear is just not going to be there when I wear something once it has its little moment on Instagram and then I'm onto the next outfit, usually for a glossy event. That's why when it comes to fashion, I actually borrow most everything when that's an option. And I've recently become a fan of Vivrel, which in terms of designer accessories has options upon options upon options. We're talking millions of dollars in new inventory every single week. So depending on the occasion, I could play up a throwback look with a little Dior saddlebag, or I could round out a New York It Girl look with a bag by the Row. Or I could carry the latest by Bottega because Jacob Elordi inspired me like everyone else and I don't have to feel guilty about changing it up. Vivrel is an exclusive fashion and lifestyle membership, unlocking access to thousands of hard to find handbags, jewelry, watches and diamonds. You can just pay a monthly fee and then you make the rules. You can rotate often or you can feel free to take a while with that Celine style that you just can't let go. So check it out. Go to www.virel.com and apply for a membership today, using code GLOSSY to get 50% off your first three months of membership. The code also allows you to skip the Virel wait list. That's V I V R e l l e.com use code GLOSSY for 50% off the first three months of membership.
- [21:47]
Danny Parisi
Yeah, and you mentioned obviously that luxury brands are particularly kind of hesitant to get behind a wider roster of NBA players. We've seen that there's been some very popular kind of tunnel fits posts from whether that's Louis Vuitton or Prada. I think that there's been a growing roster of brands that are interested. I'm not here kind of out here naming names, but I'd be really interested to hear which brands you think are doing it well right now have the right kind of relationship with you and the player, but also are interested in kind of testing the waters and seeing something different out there, rather than just maybe some plain suiting that follows those guidelines.
- [22:32]
Courtney Mays
I think if we're being really honest, a lot of times when you see those tunnel moments, the guys bought that stuff. So it's not like. And not every time. And I couldn't necessarily point to specific moments, but they're not necessarily coming down the tunnel as like, you know, an endorsement. Like, they're, you know, I bought this. I love this. I was in insert whatever city, and I thought it was cool. And not every guys have stylists or teams around them that are sort of helping to build the conversation around them. And even if they do, some guys, especially the guys, some guys are very like, I don't need a stylist. I'm cool. I can figure it out myself, which I think is fine, too. But I think it's cool to have somebody that's there to advocate for you. But I do think that there are some brands that are doing it well. Thom Brown, I would say, is at the top of the list. I feel like he has done such an amazing job being a part of the conversation when it comes to sports, when it comes to celebrity culture, when it comes. I mean, think about, like, the Met Gala. Like, he's. He shows up, and I think that he. Not only does he show up, but he shows up as his authenticity design self. You see exactly who he is as a designer. But he's also willing to stretch and make the things for the guys that are six, nine, and make the things for the women that are plus size. I think about, like, a Queen Latifah or, you know, Kevin Love or when the Cavs wore Tom Brown through the tunnel, like, as almost like a Runway show. I think he does such a great job of being a part of the conversation and is interested in under and understands the power of sport and style as, you know, synonymous. I think. Thom Browne, I think. Who else?
- [24:32]
Danny Parisi
I mean, there's also been some jewelry designers. Right. Especially on the ambassador side of things. I know that there's been American. Yeah. David Yerman did a great campaign last year around kind of the athlete partnerships and kind of a real ambassador program. Probably one of the first that I've seen that's come from a brand perspective. And I'm really interested to hear what you think, because obviously jewelry, and men's jewelry in particular, is definitely a growing area and athletes have such a great visibility for that. How are you integrating accessories into those fits, especially in the context of, you know, a partnership or an ambassador contract?
- [25:12]
Courtney Mays
I mean, jewelry is clearly very important to me. I think that accessories are the way to define your personal style. I think we can all have on jeans and a T shirt, and accessories are kind of the way that differentiate us. I find that watches are a big part of the conversation when we're talking about look, especially in the NBA space and even in the WNBA space. I think watches are a big part of how the players are completing their looks. I think it's also the ultimate luxury purchase kind of thing for a lot of players.
- [25:53]
Danny Parisi
I've got my Rolex, I've got my Patek cloak.
- [25:57]
Courtney Mays
It's also like a great collector item. I think, you know, people are interested in, like growing those collections. But I think what to your point, what David Yurman did was so powerful because I think that especially in this day and age and the way that style has evolved, accessories are so ingrained in how people get dressed. I mean, you see pocket change, you see layered necklaces, you know, lots of rings and bracelets as a part of both menswear and women's wear. And I think David Yurman has been obviously a classic staple for years. And I mean, I can even think about my mom getting her David Yurman bracelet or whatever. But I think the way that that company was able to integrate sport was really interesting. And also a couple different style sensibilities in terms of the players that they used. I think that part is important. What's cool about the tunnel and the fact that now the league and Adam Silver has sort of championed the tunnel as a part of the sports watching experience is that you see such a diversity of style. So you see like, you know, the buttoned up, you know, I'm still in a three piece suit all the way down to I'm in the wide leg jeans and the baggy sweater and the Rick Owens sneaker and, you know, all of that. And so I think that part is cool. And I think David Yurman did a great job of sort of showcasing that sort of, you know, diversity with Jalen Green. Like, I think it was really cool.
- [27:35]
Danny Parisi
Yeah, I really love that. I think that diversity is something we don't see as much maybe on the Runway and it's interesting to see how much it shows up in the tunnels. Now, I know that some of those fits can be sponsored. You know, how does that affect how you dress the athlete? And does it kind of change what they're allowed to wear? You know, with runways specifically or kind of red carpets, there's almost sometimes stipulations that this brand cannot be seen with this one, you know, you can't have a look where those two brands are in one. Does that work the same way, you know, for tunnel fits now?
- [28:11]
Courtney Mays
Yeah, I mean, I think for sports, I think where there's like a hard line is if the athlete has a sneaker endorsement, like that person is a Nike athlete or an Adidas athlete. So a lot of times as a stylist, you're encouraged to incorporate those brands in their looks. So I think there's the hard line. Like, if you're a Jordan athlete, you can't wear a pair of Converse or a Samba. But I think what's interesting is a lot of times, like say Nike, for example, will say, hey, we really want to showcase our ready to wear collection. Like, let's integrate this stylist into the tunnel walk experience and hire them to dress you for insert, like 10 games out of the season. And let's see how you can use the Nike collection in sort of a street style way. So, like, how can we integrate this hoodie with this cargo pant? Or, like, how are we kind of making these more athletic pieces a little bit more street style friendly? And I think that's where it kind of gets interesting when you're having to really kind of define athleisure in a really specific and literal way. Because you're saying, like, okay, I have this Nike, Adidas, Under Armour, whatever, insert, whatever athletic brand. And now I have to kind of integrate it, you know, with things that are a little bit more tailored or, you know, add the accessories. And I think that part is cool. I haven't had an experience where other than those athletic brands, where somebody has to wear a specific brand for, you know, all 82 games kind of thing or all 45 games for the girls. But I do. What I find is important is, like, if. If a brand loans a look, I try to wear the entire look.
- [30:13]
Danny Parisi
Or why is that?
- [30:15]
Courtney Mays
Because I think. And this is kind of new for me because I think as a stylist, you're like, okay, well, I'm gonna put this jacket with this pant. And like, that's part of the creative process. But I do think as you're trying to build the relationship with the brands. You wanna give them the full package. So maybe I've styled it in a way that's interesting. Maybe I didn't do it exactly as it's seen on the Runway or exactly in the the lookbook. I've pared it down a little bit or dressed it down a little bit, but I think sometimes it muddies the water when you're like, I have on framed jeans, but I also have on a. A Goldie jacket. You know, I think you want to respect. You want to give the same respect to the brand and say, you know, I was able to use this, the full look from your collection. Now, maybe, like, the T shirt underneath isn't from the brand or the jewelry. You know, I've inserted the. These pieces of jewelry or this fun sock or whatever it is, and kind of made sure that I owned the person's style sensibility. But I think it's important to show the designers that level of respect because they were wanting to work with you. As, you know, there's that mutual sort.
- [31:30]
Danny Parisi
Of partnership that's so interesting. I mean, I've. I obviously follow the kind of runways, and sometimes you end up seeing, like, an archival style from one of the designers, and it's styled exactly the same way. I think there was a shoot of who was the actress in Wuthering Heights wearing an exact archival look, and it just felt very interesting that you would style it in exactly the same way. But that's interesting that it shows that there's a kind of respect, and I guess you hope that if this happens, they'll end up sending you more pieces because they know that they trust you. You can pull the whole look together. Is that the kind of thinking behind it?
- [32:12]
Courtney Mays
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think a lot of this is just about relationship building. I think there's, like, this juxtaposition of, like, you want to build a relationship with the brand in order to uplift your client, you know, experience with the fashion space. You also want to celebrate your client's style sensibility. So you're not wanting to, like, copy what comes down the Runway, but, you know, kind of make it their own. So you have to kind of toe the line. There's that gray area that you want to sort of play in. And I think the best stylists are able to honor their client style sensibility, but also build the relationships with the brands in order to drive the conversation further between sport and style.
- [33:01]
Danny Parisi
I love that, and I know that with brands, it can get quite Complicated in terms of the exposure they also want from the various games. Is there any specific games that you see? Maybe more engagement with brands around. And obviously as a result for them, they're thinking about exposure, media impact, value, for example. Tell me about some of the differences in terms of the bigger games versus smaller games and how brands might approach that. What are they sending you if it's something that has a much bigger crowd, for example?
- [33:34]
Courtney Mays
Yeah, I think it's interesting because I'm not sure the brands understand yet. I think for me, I'm hyper aware.
- [33:45]
Danny Parisi
Of.
- [33:49]
Courtney Mays
You know, what arenas have. You know, the photographers there have, you know, the space where you get the cool photo. For example, like New York, you know, you're gonna get that cool photo of the guys leaving the hotel. Yeah, L.A. you're gonna get that great photo of the guys walking through the marquee in the literal tunnel going into the arena. But there are certain places where the arena is connected to the hotel. So you may not ever see the look. I think the beauty of what's happening now because style has become so much a part of the sports watching experience and the way that fans engage with athletes. A lot of teams now have their own photographer. Well, they've always had their own photographers, but not only are they responsible for getting those great moments on court, they're responsible for being in the tunnel and getting those great, you know, moments where the players are walking in. And I think that's because teams and the league know the value of the tunnel walk and the way that those. Those looks are so impacting the viewership of the game. So I don't know if the brand, like, I still think I stand firm on that, the fashion is still trying to figure out sports. I think there are some people that are like, we love sports and we are huge, you know, supporters of the game, but I don't think they get it yet. I think that's why there's a power in having a stylist or somebody that can advocate and speak to both worlds. Because I think I'm the one that's like, okay, I know not to wear that look in Sacramento because we're not going to get a great photo. But I know we have to wear it in Chicago because I know exactly where that photo or, hey, I know what photographers are there. Let me build a relationship with the team photographer. Or now at this point, there's even like, you know, paparazzi kind of style photographers that you can hit up and say, hey, I need to get this great photo. It's wild because I work with a lot of vets, so, like, they kind of don't care.
- [35:56]
Danny Parisi
So they've done their thing.
- [35:58]
Courtney Mays
They've done their thing. But I think that they do understand that there's some power in, you know, being seen off the court and having that relationship to the same sports space. I mean, to this fashion space. But it's like me or like a publicist or a manager, like, that's like hustling to try to get the image so that we can connect it to the brand and, like, you know, build the relationship. Because at the end of the day, you're like, yes, we love getting, you know, the free clothes or the clothes loaned, but also we would love to have a bigger conversation. Is there, you know, an ambassadorship? Is there an endorsement opportunity that we can turn this into actual, you know, dollars and cents? I think that part of it is part of the process, but you need somebody on your side that's like doing that sort of background work, you know, not only putting the looks together and making sure that you look and feel your most confident and your best self, but also, like, connecting with the photographer, the brand, the team, to make sure they get the full package, which is really the image.
- [37:05]
Danny Parisi
Yeah. So relationship management, photography management. Gosh, that's a very multivariate role. You're no longer talking about styling. This is a lot bigger than that.
- [37:15]
Courtney Mays
Yeah, you become a publicist.
- [37:18]
Danny Parisi
Yeah, exactly. That's what you're at at the moment. You're a publicist between the brands, between the athletes, and between their teams as well. I know that a lot of these athletes, you said that these athletes are a little bit reticent to brand deals or maybe kind of even being involved with fashion. You know, I think that a lot of them don't really want to be influencers, but are becoming that, you know, almost inadvertently. How are you, I guess, convincing them that being an influencer isn't such a bad thing?
- [37:50]
Courtney Mays
You know, I'm 42, so the idea of influence, the word influencer, has been something that I've had to learn as, you know, something powerful and as another sort of business opportunity. And as I said, I work with a lot of vets who are either in the middle or going towards the end of their career. And so we are at the same time learning the value of social media, the value of, like, what it means to be an influencer. I think a lot of players know how to do that when it comes to the sport, but what does that look like off the court? So I Do think it's, it's interesting because we're learning that together. I think there's a lot of power in some of the younger players, especially now that we have the nil who these are players that kind of grew up with social media and understand the value of. And so I think you're going to start to see where players are engaging in fashion through social media in a bigger and bolder way than you might see like LeBron. LeBron's not tagging his outfit or you know, saying look at my connect to my shop, my page. But like you might start seeing the younger players. Imagine that would be hilarious.
- [39:18]
Danny Parisi
Oh my God.
- [39:19]
Courtney Mays
Hilarious. But I mean if he did that, it's the probably crash out.
- [39:25]
Danny Parisi
But it would absolutely blow up.
- [39:27]
Courtney Mays
Oh my God. But I think, I don't know, there's a little bit of for me with the older players and I use older in quotation marks because we are still very young in Sprite. There's a little bit of swag in that I don't have to tag and then I don't have to like, I just, I'm here, I'm cool. My outfit's cool. If you like it, figure it out. Something about that is, is cool for me. But I also know that business wise, when you tag, when you add the link, when you. There's a power in that as well. And so I'm still figuring it out and I think some of my, some of my guys are still figuring it out, but. But I'll keep you posted.
- [40:18]
Danny Parisi
Yeah, I think that hustle, that hustle is definitely going to be more with the younger players, the ones who are native to TikTok or Snapchat and have that conversation with their fans. I mean that's the other thing that a lot of this is about fans wanting to wear the things that their athletes are wearing. And we've seen obviously the power of Jordans and I'm sure that that's ultimately the highest shelf aspiration. I would love to have a sneaker deal. But that could happen in many other ways too. I mean any of these brands could have a dedicated sub collection around these athletes. Is that something that you see maybe happening in the future? That there'll be more connection between fashion and sports, that there'll be more player in things?
- [41:02]
Courtney Mays
Yeah, 100% I think of a brand like Coach I think has really connected in the WNBA space. And you're seeing brand activations during All Star Weekend. You're seeing the girls being dressed by the brand in kind of cool, interesting Ways you're even seeing moments where influencers or celebrity celebrities who are attending the games are wearing Coach. I think that is awesome. I think it was a way to reignite the Coach brand. And I feel like to me, that was a full testament of a brand understanding the power of sport and it actually working. I think there was a time where we weren't thinking Coach was like, oh, you get your vintage Coach bag kind of thing. It wasn't cool anymore. It lost its cool factor. And I feel like the fact that they've connected with the WNBA has sort of reignited them as a brand. And I think that's when things like that start happening. I think you'll start to see where other brands kind of jump on the bandwagon and say, oh, you know what? There's power in connecting with the athlete and actually activating in those spaces, you know, whether it's at a game or during an All Star event. Because it's. I mean, even now I'm like, yeah, I want that big, that coin, oversized coin purse, that Coach, like, so sick. Like, they're a great example of, like, the way to connect with sport. And I think they've done a great thing. I also think, like, there's power in, I mean, in multiple way. This is an understatement of all understatements. But, like, connecting with the W is the way to go. I think those women are one beyond powerful, but also I think understand the power of fashion and beauty and music and the ways that all of those worlds intersect. I think that's where we're moving into, where fashion, I think, is going to really lean into women in sport. And that's what we should have been doing from the get go. But here we are.
- [43:15]
Danny Parisi
Yeah. And I think that that's really interesting that you gave the kind of example with Coach, because obviously they're not just kind of showing up on the court side. They're also got an official kind of multi year partnership and they're the presenting partner of the league's LGBTQ initiative. Initiative. So something a little bit more genuine and I think a little bit less superficial. You know, we've talked a lot about that here. Like, having an authentic connection with these players and with the league makes a lot more sense for the long term. It does seem like understanding the league, you know, the way that Thom Browne does, goes a long way for these brands, 1,000%.
- [43:55]
Courtney Mays
I think the authenticity is really important because I think even as a fan, I mean, I can kind of tell, and it might just be like, me dissecting it because I'm in it. But, like, I can tell when someone's just wearing something because they were told to wear it. You know, I think it's so important to be authentic in the way that you show up in the sport, whether that's via fashion, via beauty, via music. Because I think fans know when you're not being authentic, when you're not being authentic. And I think that's why I think as a stylist, I'm wanting to stay true to the style sensibility of the player and engage with what they are interested in off the court. Because I think fans know that, like, if, Like, I use Chris as an example all the time. But, like, HBCU culture is very important to him. He philanthropically supports HBCUs. He grew up in a community where his entire family went to HBCUs. He ended up finishing his degree at a HBCU. Like, this is something that he's actually genuinely a part of. And so we decided to make that part of the storytelling in the tunnel because this was what he loved. And I think that became. Okay, let's talk about brands that celebrate and support HBCUs that became. Let's actually purchase from these brands. So we're actually putting our money where our mouth is. And also let's engage with fans in a way. Let's show up at HBCUs. Let's start at HBCU basketball tournament. And then all of a sudden, the all star weekend one year was completely about HBCU culture. It was crazy. But I think when you have those real authentic stories and touch points, then you can really engage with fans in an authentic and genuine way. But also it helps to grow the storytelling even more because you can actually talk about it in a real way and use it in multiple ways. I think that part is super important.
- [46:00]
Danny Parisi
Yeah, I think that that's the real thing. It's about finding these connections, and your job essentially is translating them into style. And it's such a good point to kind of finish up on. I know that for brands, the biggest takeaway here, I think, is just focusing on making sure that those translated elements are really clear and focusing on those values that these players have. Understanding what they're kind of going through and what's important to them is way more important than just dressing them for one game. And as you said yourself, you know, fans can smell it a mile away if. If that connection isn't authentic 100%. All right, well, thank you so much, Courtney, for joining, joining us on the Glossy podcast. It's been such a pleasure to have you here.
- [46:44]
Courtney Mays
Thank you. Thank you for having me. It was great chatting with.
- [46:53]
Danny Parisi
And that's all the time that we have this week. Don't forget to give us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you're listening to this, it really helps us out a lot. Thanks for listening.