Loading summary
Transcript35 lines
- [00:02]
Max Blank
So let's take your best performing creatives that we tell you are performing well based on the pixel data and create more that look like that and deploy them rapidly. So you have rapid AB testing things that you just couldn't do as individuals. And now you can. You kind of strapped on the Ironman suit and you can have crazy outcomes now and capability. You can now match that same sort of like creative to campaign management to also CRO, so conversion rate optimizations.
- [00:31]
Christina Koh
That's Max Blank, co founder and COO at Triple Whale, our sponsor on this episode of the Glossy Podcast. Later in the show, Custom Intelligence talks with Max about why generic AI tools fall short for e commerce brands and how a trustworthy AI operating system can improve execution and outcomes.
- [00:57]
Danny Parisi
Hello and welcome back to the Glossy Podcast. I'm your host, senior fashion reporter Danny Parisi, and I'm here with two guests today are international reporter Zofia Zviglinska. Hello, Zofia.
- [01:07]
Zofia Zviglinska
Hi, Dunny.
- [01:09]
Danny Parisi
And our editor in chief, Jo Manoff. Hello, Jill.
- [01:12]
Jo Manoff
Hello. We're all back. This is nice.
- [01:15]
Danny Parisi
The fashion team's all here. Great to see you guys. So earlier this month, Saks Global received court approval for its restructuring plan, which means that they are set to leave bankruptcy shortly. As soon as, maybe even this summer. I think they said they've been in bankruptcy protection since January. We did a podcast about it. We've talked about it several times. Sachs troubles that led them to this scenario. But now it seems like they are set to be coming out of bankruptcy very, very soon. I thought it'd be a good opportunity to talk about some of the changes they've made, what we think about the sustainability of some of those changes. Do we think it will succeed? And particularly I wanted to think about it from the brand perspective. I mean, a big problem Saks had was losing the trust of brands and a lot of brands stopping sending product to them. From the brand perspective, Saks may be a more appealing prospect. Once again, there was a lot that has happened and I wanted to talk to you guys all about that. I'll go first with a little bit of background. They're coming out of this bankruptcy as a very different company. Fewer people, meaning fewer employees, fewer stores, less debt, and overall, just kind of a more compact company. The restructuring approval means that Saks debt is being reduced by 75%, down to over still over $1 billion, but way, way less than it was before. And they're getting an additional $500 million in exit funding. It also hands control of the company over to its senior lenders and they set some very ambitious revenue goals for themselves over the next few years. There's more I could say, but I'll pause there. But just to start, like, how do you guys, what do you guys think about what you've seen from there, how they've talked about the restructuring that they've done? We can get into some of the changes they've made. But just in general, do you are looking good for Saks at the moment?
- [03:05]
Zofia Zviglinska
Yeah, I mean, I think that they've definitely done a lot of financial engineering to make sure that they have a little bit of a Runway going into this year. Specifically because I think a lot of the times when a company announces bankruptcy and it's dependent on a lot of these brands, these brands bulk and they basically end up turning away from the retailer, which did happen earlier on with Zacks. There was a lot of brands that basically stopped their relationship even as early as last year because they weren't sure, sure that these payments were going to come through for the product that they were sending to the retailer. And now obviously, because of this kind of financial cushion that they've been able to provide, some of these brands at least have been able to come back and kind of feel confident that these payments would be made. So I think that's one of the basics points for the financial impact that these moves will be having.
- [03:59]
Jo Manoff
I'm so skeptical about everything that they're doing. I have a lot of thoughts to today. But on that note, in terms of the brands coming back, I was listening to an interview with Jeffrey Van Ramdonk, the CEO of Saks Global. He's saying that the luxury brands are coming back, they're supporting the company because they see the U.S. as a growth market. They say, we're in the U.S. we're a gateway to that consumer. But a couple of things he was saying, I was like, I don't know. But one of the things was how Sachs, Niemann and Bergdorf, how that's a bonus, they exist in one ecosystem and that's great. He was saying that the brands come on board, talking about their distribution in more channels because of that one ecosystem. And I'm like, it wasn't very clear what that means, but I would have a hunch. Bergdorf has always felt higher end to me, a little more exclusive. Are they diluting that strong, strong channel by saying, well, if you're at Bergdorf now, you can sell at Sachs and Niemann too? I guess it really depends on what selling where and if there is exclusivity in any way. But that's just one of the points where I'm like, I don't know.
- [05:14]
Danny Parisi
No, I think you're right to be skeptical. I mean, I think the ecosystem thing is like, the appeal of that is a little vague, like you said. I agree that I think Bergdorf, I mean, Bergdorf, there's one Bergdorf compared to 15 Sach stores and 30 something Niemanns. So I think it's inherently a little more exclusive. And if I were them, I would not want to kind of like pool them all together and like, it's all the same thing. Don't worry about it. Like, I would lean into the differentiation a little bit if it was me. But some of the, some of the numbers from Saks have been interesting. So they said from January to May, sales were around $1.6 billion, which is less than last year. But that's including having to pay $700 million in administration administrative expenses and $470 million in reorganization charges. So if you take those out, which, like, presumably they won't have to pay reorganization charges again, it actually was pretty solid. And I saw some reporting that, like, the sales do kind of put them on a little bit firmer footing. They also said that they've used 1.75, $1.75 billion in financing from February to pay their vendors and that more than 600 brands who stopped sending product to Saks, like you said, Zafia, more than 600 brands who stopped have come back. So it seems like there are some numbers to back up that, like, sales have been good and brands are feeling, at least some are feeling a little bit more confident about sending some of that, that product back. But Joe, I don't blame you for being a little skeptical because they also sounded very confident when this merger happened, like, barely two years ago, and then now they're in bankruptcy protection.
- [06:55]
Jo Manoff
So, yes, it is 2026. And I, Luca Salka, who you interviewed for your MyTheresa story, Sophia, he said something that I've been saying for months and I think we've said it on this podcast. I put it as a quote of the day in our newsletter because I was like, yes, Luca, he was just saying that the idea of this, like, curation or having to, like, go to your retailer as the tastemaker or like to find the latest and greatest. Anyway, that idea is kind of null and void in the era of AI Search. It's really like it doesn't matter that the US Customer doesn't know my Teresa. I mean, again, unless like, international Retailers have ultra high shipping or like there's another element involved. But if they're searching something like I need a pink dress that is conservative enough for a work party and the, the vibe is cocktail but flirty or something like so specific it doesn't matter. It's just like the best dress is gonna come up. And if Neiman Marcus is focusing, we know my Teresa, for example, if people are searching this way, they're very focused on special occasion dressing. And not that everybody's searching for a special occasion all the time, but that's their bread and butter. So I, it depends on if what retailer, the retailer that's going to succeed is the retailer that is best suited to current customers needs and what they're searching for and shopping for. And I mean it doesn't mean that they're not going to thrive, but the fact that they have the brands back, like do they have the right curation? I think is the question.
- [08:33]
Danny Parisi
Yeah, Joe, I think, I think you're right that like if you are shopping and everything's getting served up to you and it's kind of from different retailers all together in, you know, either through AI or through, just through Google Shopping or something like that. The, the differentiation is going to be like, which one has the thing you're looking for and the price. I've heard people talk about this like if, if your stuff is getting served up along somebody, somebody else and there's no differentiating factors. Like there's no, you're not like in your own retail ecosystem. It's just like the product listing, then all you've really got is like, is the product available from you and is it at a better deal than the other? And I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if Saks is ready to like operate in that world. I will say one more figure for you is that they said Online sales rose 11% in this last six months compared to the year before for Saks Global. And they also said significant improvements in full price selling, which we can talk about off price retail in a second too, because that's a whole interesting thing. But Zofia, I feel like I cut you off. Were you going to say something along these lines?
- [09:43]
Zofia Zviglinska
Yeah, I mean I think that this kind of figures, both the distribution side and this kind of curation side also figures into the way that they're trying now to approach their retail, which is they've closed like a number of department stores already. So they've announced I think 1512 Saks Fifth Avenue, 3 Neiman Marcus and then we'll get into the off price data. But that's a significant portion of this distribution that apparently so many brands are relying on to get into the U.S. but if that curation isn't good enough and obviously if the products that they're selling, which a lot of the brands that they talked about coming back are ones that are present in other retailers. So Chanel carrying lvmh, all of those brands are the ones that were the biggest creditors that they listed. So the ones that they were owed the most by Saks, those are the ones that have come back. But again those are the same brands that are then sold elsewhere. So there's not a huge amount, I would say, of curation right now going on with that. And it does feel like they're more interested in getting these massive accounts back rather than kind of focusing on a wider, more interesting distribution and maybe a kind of nimbler structure considering all of this that's gone down. I think the issue with Saks before was that it was this big sprawling kind of department store and that that curation wasn't there. So if you're focusing only on bringing those accounts back, that basically did the same thing, like isn't that repeating the same formula?
- [11:18]
Jo Manoff
Yes. And we got to get into the off price. I feel like that's such a big part of this conversation because again the CEO talked about the focus, the new focus as they move on from off 5th and other. Anyway, there's a lot involved but they're focusing on full price sales. The CEO said the core of the business is the luxury. US customer had this great stat himself that 40% of revenue with customers of revenue is with customers that average $36,000 spend with the company a year. So it seems like they're focusing on high, high net worth customers which that diversification I think is necessary though. Like I don't think that that's the right direction. This day and age. There's so much wrapped up into this. Like we're seeing that Nordstrom Rack is rolling out the Rack stores. And they also, I have all these facts and stats as well. They were saying that 25% of Nordstrom rack shoppers migrate over to the full price line Nordstrom and also that they see Nordstrom Rack as the gateway to anyway more premium customers. We know that ultra more high net worth customers customers are shopping at the Walmarts and the dollar stores and I don't know who's shopping luxury all the damn time. We also know like sale, there's a great Story that came out. Maybe Reuters. I don't really remember that. The sales sale of luxury. Oh it was actually a Bain Co. Stat. That sale of luxury bags are down almost 10% since 2023. And the price of luxury goods as of last year had increased at the slowest pace since 2019. Despite all these news bits that prices are going up all the time. So I think that the customer is feeling otherwise. They don't want to shop luxury all the damn time. A competitor, Bloomingdale's also has a lower end line like outlets. They have a big outlet business that has multiple locations. And so anyway, I think that that's not the best idea. I also think catering to the 1%. Why wouldn't the 1% go to the brands potentially that's giving them access to fashion shows and all of these perks which you know, we know a lot of retailers do that as well. We also know do they have that ultra, ultra high end stuff that's so exclusive that these guys want? We know Rolex raised their prices but they're not selling Rolex. You know, we. I also listened to this fun podcast with Morgan Stewart and Emily Oberg a couple of weeks ago and they were talking about their Hermes Birkin. Like everyone has one. It's like the Coach bag. Now they want one that's Croc, like that's the only one that will work. And so like when people are going ultra, ultra high end and that's the 1%, I don't know that they're going to Saks.
- [14:06]
Danny Parisi
Yeah. Jill, you raised so many good points. And in my notes I had a lot of the, the same things. But it's so, it's so interesting that they basically have closed all of the off 5th stores and only like a year or two ago they were talking about how that was going to be a big focus of the strategy. And like you said, Nordstrom Rack is doing great. TJ Maxx is doing really well. They raised their revenue guidance just last month. I think you're right. It seems odd to me to abandon off price right now when people are getting gas price squeeze and inflation squeeze and everyone's looking for a deal. I also always think of Charles Gora, who's the founder of Rebag, who we've talked to a bunch of told me once, he was like, it literally doesn't matter the price point or the net worth. Like everyone likes to spend less money for something. Everyone likes a deal. And he said I've had people buy an $8,000 bag and then be annoyed that there's a $20 shipping fee and try to get out of it or something. So I think off price has, I think off price can also target a wealthy affluent customer who just wants to find something, like wants to feel like they found a deal or even just find something that's a little bit not the same as everyone else, you know, because it's from a couple seasons ago or like, I don't know, I think there's a lot of value there and it's a little odd to me that, that Saks is totally abandoning that right as it seems like there's a lot of surge around off price retail. What do you think, Zofia?
- [15:31]
Zofia Zviglinska
Yeah, I'm wondering if like the costs for operating that are now kind of outweighing things and perhaps it's just kind of a sacrifice that they're trying to make because of this whole like financial rigmarole that they' to get out of. But I think referring back to what you Gill said, I guess the differentiation in customers is really important here because obviously Saks owns all three. It's Saks, it's Niemann's and it's Bergdorf's and all of them have a slightly different luxury customer. But then at the same time, is it really that different if they're all under the same group and is there enough differentiation for people to care? The fact that that off price channel is closing and then Neiman Rect is still doing really well, that's also a different kind of luxury customer. But everyone ends up shopping through most of these channels at the same time. It's not really happening anymore where you have a super loyal customer because the benefits are not outweighing shopping across different platforms. You mentioned as well the fact that brands are also trying to get a lot of these customers back and they're essentially in the same kind of battle for the same customer attention. So when, you know a luxury customer has all of these different channels they can go through, why would they choose sex or you know, why would they choose Neiman's or Bergdorf's if the benefits are not really like there. And obviously there's a couple of different, like activations and things and benefits that they have talked about such as, you know, access to catwalk shows, exclusive collections as well as, you know, I think the super exclusive list that they come out with every year and that's, that's a way to kind of get in with that luxury customer. But there's also a number of agencies now which do that. There's sources for luxury products that get them for you at the best price. What is the pull I guess to come back to Saks in this new format? That's the question I have agree.
- [17:30]
Jo Manoff
I feel like one thing that they have going for them and this is a small percentage of the luxury shopping community one thing that they have is this kind of heritage in the States. And then what I think about is I always talk sorry to always be lame but Anyway I'm in St. Louis anyway. We're one of the cities that where a Saks Fifth Avenue closed and you know, it's just we don't have a lot of luxury here. And it was always a staple in this kind of the fancy mall plaza Frontenac where people who lived in this area Ledoux this area Frontenac go to anyway buy their Manolo Blahnik whatever. So there were anyway the social media. My feed was filled with posts saying like granted people are dying in the world. This is not like the worst news. However, it's hitting me hard because I used to come here and shop with my grandma or what have you. So there was a lot of sentimental posts about how much they love the store and will miss the store. There was a lot of yes people walking around the store as it's emptying and it's becoming just racks and like tears. Tears, tears. It is a beloved brand and obviously that that customer's aging and people are gonna shop differently. However, like an older customer who has that kind of affinity for the company will likely walk into the store and buy something or maybe go to Saks.com old school because they just that's how they shop. They haven't involved with the times. I don't know. But that's one thing they have going.
- [19:08]
Christina Koh
I'm Christina Koh, senior editor at Custom Intelligence, Digiday Media's and Glossy's in house agency. In this podcast Interstitial story sponsored by Triple Whale, we speak with Max Blank, the company's co founder and COO about why generic AI tools fall short for e commerce brands and how a trustworthy AI operating system can improve execution and outcomes.
- [19:30]
Max Blank
AI is really just an accelerator, right? And accelerates everything. It definitely can free you up from doing things that are tedious you don't want to be doing. There's always like another like add to cart button placement to maybe split test and if you had the means and the will to do it, you probably do. But now you do, right? Or maybe a different angle on an ad or a creative that you should probably be testing. But like who's got the time right now you can do all those things that there's almost like infinite amount of things you can test to really push up efficiency in any direction on the business. Now that the actual technical work to be done to kind of build some of these things are a lot of like the back and forth is kind of taken care of. With AI you have time to actually get more and more creative and to put your energy into places that like are really unimaginable and they can drive outcomes. Whether it's like that channel you never tested because you were sitting there creating more variants of a certain product page or a creative. But maybe you should check out TikTok shops and maybe now you can, right? Or maybe there's a new channel you should be investing in. But it does take a lot of energy. It's just, it just accelerates and amplifies everything.
- [20:36]
Christina Koh
With AI having the power to help brands accelerate their testing and iteration, freeing up time for more hands on creative work. E commerce brands need to trust the tools they're using and know they're adding something to their mix that's rooted in the context of their business.
- [20:49]
Max Blank
You know, hone in on fashion and beauty brands but they're all like, they have similar themes. There's a lot of data what do we do with it and how do we compact the time of let's test things, let's deploy things, but let's get feedback and iterate really quickly. How do we do that? And really it's like having all of that data in a place that I can go in superhuman, not even robotic speeds and serve up. Whether there's problems with product and here's how you can fix it, whether here's a voice of the customer, things that you want to iterate, maybe put in to your ads like these are leverage points that are really impossible to get before this age that we live in now with AI right. It is more of that ad buying testing. A lot of ad buying is really creative velocity and having sort of robotic machine powers to up that velocity, that's unprecedented. So whether it's creative testing, landing page testing, campaign management, new audience deployment and measurement across channel, like all these things are now possible. It's just a fundamentally different experience because it's specificity. We also have a number of specialists coming which are essentially like packaged use cases that are going to allow merchants to onboard to media buying really quickly to get started out of the box that come with our diagnosed best practices. Whether that's through media buying or conversion rate optimization or creative generation. These are experiences that we are working on right now that when a Merchant comes onto mobi2 they will be able to just one click, get started and set up and start getting outcomes almost immediately.
- [22:26]
Christina Koh
Leveraging AI as E Commerce brands explore the variety of capabilities with this tool. The specificity is a true differentiator, allowing rapid testing and deployment at a scale that wasn't previously possible.
- [22:39]
Max Blank
I think automating large parts of media buying is something that we have a lot of relatively large brands doing right now, whether that is taking the recipes or the knowledge, the context of running the ad account, putting them in as markdown files or memories, which are common vernacular now in the AI world, all that can be put into MOBI so it has persistent memory and can understand how to run the accounts over long periods of time. That's happening right now. One account is actually managing about $4 million a month with Meta right now and it is matching what the current media buyers are doing and it's starting to make decisions on its own and do not perform it, which is very exciting. So that's one major use case, I think a huge use case.
- [23:26]
Christina Koh
You've been listening to Max Blank, co founder and COO at Triple Whale, our sponsor, on this episode. And now back to the Glossy podcast.
- [23:40]
Danny Parisi
Joe, I'm glad you brought that up because that was one of the other things I wanted to talk about. Where Saks has closed their stores. St. Louis, Missouri, obviously, Alabama, Illinois, Nevada, like a lot of places in the Midwest or in the South. And like you said, it does kind of leave a little bit of a gap. And I'm wondering, Jill, as our resident Midwest correspondent, like, where, where would one in St. Louis like shop for luxury? Do the brands have much of a presence there or is there just like a Louis Vuitton boutique anywhere near there?
- [24:12]
Jo Manoff
There is again, in the fancy mall plaza, Frontenac. So I mean, I know a lot of folks, they actually like, they make shopping trips to Chicago and New York. I also know, I mean personally I would just say I'm not the luxury shopper we're talking about here. But there's a great luxury resale scene. I think resale is taking a big and it's probably full of things that people are buying on these shopping trips to New York and Chicago. So yeah, I think that there's, there's good brand presence. I do think we're a little bit people like to go to Frontenac and go to Niemann and Saks, but I don't know what will Happen now we've got Nordstrom, we don't have Bloomingdale's. So yeah, there's kind of a void, I would say. And we're not the smallest city.
- [25:02]
Danny Parisi
Yeah. And the resale thing is interesting because Neiman Marcus does have a partnership with Fashionphile, at least where I know you could bring bags into the store. I forget if you can buy secondhand bags there. I don't think so. But they have some sort of connection with resale there. I don't think Saks does, as far as I'm aware, anyway. So, yeah, it feels like that if you're in one of those markets where Saks has pulled out of, they're pulling out of places outside of the big shopping hubs. Like, I mean, they even closed one in Chicago, so even, which is a big metro area, so not even a big city in the Midwest is safe from losing their beloved Saks Fifth Avenue. But they're pulling out of there and they're also pulling out of off price. So it feels like there's a lot that they're stripping away and just laser focusing on, like you said, this super high net worth customer. I also think, like you said, Zofia, that when a lot of luxury brands and retailers are all kind of doing the same strategy of we're laser focusing on our most affluent customer because they're the most reliable. So it's like, okay, how many of those people are there? You know, that's a very small sliver to all be targeting and hinging your entire business on them. Spending, you know, 30 to $40,000 a month or a year or whatever feels like a little bit risky. You know, it's all the eggs in one basket type of thing. I don't know. Do you guys feel like there's. We kind of already talked about it, but do you feel like that's a dangerous decision on Sachs's part?
- [26:34]
Zofia Zviglinska
Yeah, I mean, I think it might be just because, like, you're essentially isolating yourself in terms of customer spend. And I think the variety that Saks had with the main brand with Saks off fifth with the other two, that it kind of ended up with a little bit of a different customer in each one. But now, and especially because brands are able to sell to all three, it doesn't really mean that there's that much differentiation. I think that that curation element is fine for you. The wealthier kind of older customer, which I think Saks has always traditionally been after. And I think that's why it resonates so well. Jill with people who have known the brand for a really long time and who still kind of trust it and want to shop there. But if you're talking about the real 1%, those are people who are usually extremely innovative in how they shop. They travel constantly so they have access to global boutiques. It's not just us ones. And they're also interested in finding brands that other people might not know. Again, if you're going after the same accounts and the same brands, then you're not going to be offering anything up to that group. Which I think is what everyone is trying to target now. I mean I spoke to Michael Kliga last week about Mytheresa and I guess the way that it's approaching both the spend and the customer and the luxury segment as well. And he said apart from the AI conversation that you could read about in that piece, he also said that there was such a focus on bringing these people together because the real value that they have even from these retailers is not necessarily just the shopping but also who they meet. So if retailers are also meant to be like a connection point for finding this little 1% community, then maybe doing it that way and kind of focusing on events and focusing on connections is a better way of doing it rather than just focusing on the spending. Because again, typically these people are not just in there for the purchases because they can make that anywhere, whether that's Tokyo, Shanghai or New York.
- [28:44]
Jo Manoff
Yes, I had a similar thought. It wasn't exactly the same but I was wondering because there are other stats about how Bloomingdale's had their best holiday performance on record and that they took market share. You would think that they would a retention strategy. I would like to compare and I didn't coming into this meeting but loyalty programs and the perks that you get for shopping at these retailers and I think that that's a big competitive point. So anyway, we'll see. And also would be interested. I don't believe they are in a position to do so. But as people as shopping IRL is so important or I don't know, back in vogue, do they need to open stores to compete? Like they have 40 something across their brands now we know Bloomingd at 30 something Bloomingdale stores plus 21 outlets plus blooming stores. So definitely a larger footprint. And we know Nordstrom as well large.
- [29:43]
Danny Parisi
So anyway, on that note, I saw something similar around Bloomingdale's. I mean Macy said that Bloomingdale's was seeing double digit growth. They credit it with lifting the whole portfolio. Nordstrom is now private, but it seems like Nordstrom is doing really well. Like I said, they brag about Nordstrom Rack all the time. The competitors to Saks seem like there's a lot of movement. And on that note, we should end on this answering this question, but as a brand, would you find Saks to be more appealing or at least more stable place to sell these days? And after all this restructuring and all the changes they've made, maybe we all give our answer and then we'll wrap up. Who wants to go first?
- [30:26]
Zofia Zviglinska
Thank you. Yeah, I mean, I think for brands, again, if you are one of the big dogs and I think it's essential for you to be in every environment, then absolutely you're going to come back because I think people will recognize it and it would be odd if you weren't. But for any kind of incumbent or younger brands, maybe brands also entering from Europe, there might be better channels to go to your customers more directly. I think we've seen such a kind of boom in trunk shows over the last couple of years in kind talking to customers directly. And I think in this day and age where the data layer is also so important for brands and having visibility into that is so important, maybe partnering with a retailer who isn't going to be as transparent with that isn't the best idea.
- [31:15]
Jo Manoff
I agree, it wouldn't be my first pick. But again, if your strategy is I would need to be everywhere, meet the customer, where they are, whoever they are, wherever they are, and I'm on Amazon and I'm here, there and everywhere. Great. Go to Saks as well. But I would think I would be more so focused right now when it comes to investing and potential risks. Anyway, I would be getting my data, my backend in check to make sure I'm searchable via AI and AI search and that I'm on these best of lists and building these strong communities so that people are talking positively about me on Reddit, which is no easy feat. But like literally the AI search is huge to me. I think it's going to disrupt everything and we're only seeing the beginning of it. And I think that the multi brand retailer when it comes to online shopping, which is, you know, it's not everything is, it's changing. That power of that is dwindling a bit.
- [32:15]
Danny Parisi
Yeah, I agree with both of you and I won't repeat all the same points. But also on the topic of his sex, less risky. I think that's true. Like it does seem like they have. I think they realized how damaging the bad relationships with brands was they've put a lot of money into paying people back, even if I don't think everyone got paid back everything they were owed. But it does seem like they're investing in that. So, you know, like we were saying, if it's, if you're concerned about, you know, is it a risk to go into Saks? I don't think it's as much of a risk. Is it something you should go out of your way and put a bunch of time and effort into doing when there's maybe other more interesting channels or, you know, priorities you could invest in? That maybe would be the smarter move. But I think that's all the time we have this week. But this was a very good discussion. I'm glad we could dive back in. Sax is, I think, perennially interesting to me. At least I hope it was interesting for you guys. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Sophia and Jill, good to talk to you both.
- [33:11]
Jo Manoff
Thanks so much.
- [33:18]
Danny Parisi
And thank you for listening to the Glossy Podcast. Don't forget to give us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, wherever you listen to this, because that helps us out so much. And don't forget to subscribe to the Glossy Podcast to hear interviews with industry insiders and weekend review segments where we break down the news. The new episodes come out every Friday. Until the next time, thanks for listening.