← The Glossy Podcast
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- [00:05]
A
Hello, and welcome back to the Glossy Podcast. I'm your host, senior fashion reporter Danny Parisi, and I'm here with our editor in chief, Jill Manoff, and our international reporter, Zofia Zvyglinska. Hello, guys. Thank you for joining.
- [00:17]
B
Hi.
- [00:17]
C
I think it's been a while since we've all been together on the pod.
- [00:20]
A
I know the whole fashion team is here, and the reason we're all here is because, folks, it is New York Fashion Week. It is the kickoff of Fashion Month. We're recording this on Tuesday. I believe this episode's coming out Thursday, so by the time you hear this, it'll be happening. But we are gathered here today to discuss a little preview of what we are looking out for at New York Fashion Week. We have tons of Fashion Week and Fashion Month podcast coverage coming up. We have multiple New York Fashion Week episodes. We'll have episodes on London, Paris, and Milan, and then we will have lots of coverage on the site and the newsletter, so check those out, too. But I wanted to do a little preview of what we're looking out for this week at New York Fashion Week, because it is upon us. So there's a lot to talk about, and we can start with. I think I want to start with the venue situation at New York Fashion Week. So do you guys remember, like, last season? Maybe this was just me, but I felt like everyone I talked to last season was lamenting the fact that the New York Fashion Week is spread out way more than it used to be. Like, it used to all be in Bryant park, and then it used to. Not all, but it used to be a lot of shows were in Bryant park, and then it used to be a lot of shows were in Spring Studios.
- [01:31]
C
You forgot Lincoln center in the middle. Lincoln center and Lincoln Center.
- [01:36]
A
Yeah, I don't think I was around for that. I don't think I was covering the industry at that time. But yeah, and then now the last couple of years, maybe it's sort of spread out all over the place. Last season, I literally was, like, trucking it to Brooklyn and then back to Chelsea and then down to Soho, and it was definitely a little bit annoying.
- [01:54]
C
A Brooklyn show is just mean when they do that. Like, Egg House Lotto used to do that all the time. I don't think that they do that anymore. But when mean, going from the west.
- [02:04]
A
Side of Manhattan all the way to Brooklyn and then down to soho is, like, brutal, especially for a busy journalist like us. But anyway, a lot of designers told me they also missed, like, the camaraderie and the shared space and all that kind of stuff. This season there is an experiment happening with an organization called kfn. This is an organization working with the CFDA and they're trying to trying out this program this season that they call the Venue Collective, which is a campus of venues all in Lower Manhattan below 34th street, where a lot of designers. I said around 30 designers are going to be showing at these handful of venues throughout the week to try to bring back some of that consolidation. Some of the shared space that used to be very common at New York Fashion Week. When I saw that, I personally and selfishly thought that was a great idea because then I don't have to go all over the city to cover all the shows. But in the weeks since, it's been interesting. We were just talking before the recording about I don't know how big of a test this is. I mean, 30 designers and it is some big designers, like Off White, Altazara, Simkai, Tibby, Sergio Hudson. There are a few of them who will be participating. But it also seems like from some of the designers we're talking to that a lot of them didn't even know this was happening. So it's interesting. I'm going off, but I'll. I'll pause there. I mean, what do you guys think about the pilot program? About the idea of kind of trying to bring some of that consolidation back? Jill, do you want to go first? Because you're also a New York based. Well, you're not New York based anymore, but you know what I mean.
- [03:38]
C
I'll be there in the air.
- [03:40]
A
You'll be in the air.
- [03:41]
C
I mean, I was thinking about this because I officially finally mapped out my schedule this morning and there's not a lot of overlap in terms of the venues that I'm seeing. I put the address next to it. It makes me easier to navigate during the week. And I think that it was very secretive about what these three venues are. 34th Street. I don't even know if it was officially announced, but I get the. I get wind that it's this Studio 5 to 5, 525 W. 24th St. Is one of them. I talked to Kate Barton this week and she was talking about the fact that she doesn't do a show unless it's covered via sponsorships and other. She's showing there and Akin Voss is showing there a couple days later. So that was one that was duplicative that I hadn't. I don't believe I've been to before. But I mean Otherwise we're all over the place. I don't see any overlap. Some people there is a show at Spring Studios. There is. Some folks are showing in their showroom or at their store. But yeah, I'm not seeing this convenience, alleged convenience.
- [04:50]
B
So I actually spoke to Imad Izamrain, who's the organizer of KFN and kind of the one behind this whole venue, I guess shifting. He's also the one who is behind Spring Place and he definitely points towards New York Fashion Week being a bigger kind of cultural event. And that's something that will be happening more next year. But I think for now with the venues, the changes or the venue collective as he's calling it, between Chelsea and West side, the designers, as you mentioned, like Brandon Maxwell, Kate Barton, Simkai Form, Zankov, all of those will be kind of presenting there. I think the idea is that it's going to be something that they don't have to pay for because of the fact that it's a shared space and they're working out very specific kind of one or two day rental contracts for these places. It means that designers can get very unique locations that most likely they won't be able to share with many other designers. Like as you mentioned, there'll be some designers that will be showing together but like on different days. So again, like the. The design will be slightly different for that and KFN is kind of taking care of like lighting. If they want the production side of things, they're very experienced so they can also help with that side of things. They did a whole panel and I guess consultation with the CFDA as well as some of the designers as well, who all said that they don't want to be sharing the same space on the same day because the organisation of being in and out of there in two hours after you've been planning the show for six months is a little bit crazy. So they want to make sure that each designer has their own kind of time. They have setup space and like a lot of room as well for models and extra casting bits. The idea is I think as well to bring more attention to the real estate in New York. You know, there's so many kind of epic buildings and legacy kind of places that maybe didn't get as much attention like in previous years because of that. So now you know, the fact that there's so many emerging designers that looking for these unique venues like that's one of the reasons that they're doing this.
- [07:01]
A
Yeah, the shared space and the shared cost was a big Thing that came up when I was talking to designers about this last season was the idea that if you're all kind of using the same space, you can sort of pool resources a little bit. I think the trade off, from what I've heard, is that a lot of times, like you said, it's a lot of work to put on a fashion show. And if it's a shared space, that means the space needs to be a little generic in some ways, which means you might need to bring in lots of different. Your own decoration, your own sets and stuff like that, which can be tough. And a lot of the especially more independent designers I've spoken to in previous seasons often pick a place that already looks nice on its own, that nobody else is doing a show at, just so that they don't have to do a ton of work to it and don't have to worry about competing with other people. So, yeah, it does seem like sharing the space could also have some downsides on that note of just having to be in and out. And I don't know. It's also interesting seeing which brands are doing it because it seems like it's not the really big brands like Ralph Lauren or whatever. They can afford to do their own thing and they will, but it's also not like super small indie brands because they maybe, I don't. I don't know, maybe they can't afford to be part of this. Although you said they're. It's all covered, is that right?
- [08:14]
B
Yeah, it's all covered. The other part of it is that there's also the showroom setup, which is almost like this third part for buyers, which I think you mentioned that in conversations over this past week that a lot of designers are actually showing in either their stores or in showrooms. And again, that brings down costs even more because chances are you're not going to have to pay for lighting. The amount of models you need is probably smaller. So I think there's multiple kind of structures. You've got the really big ones, Calvin Klein, Ralph Lauren, all of those are going to be showing on their own. Then you have that mid tier, which is the hub or the venue, and that's a total of 12 designers. And then there'll be the kind of showroom designers or emerging designers who'll be focusing more on kind of presenting their collection to buyers and people who want to see it kind of very up close.
- [09:08]
A
I see. So that'll be sort of off in their own separate section.
- [09:12]
B
Yeah. I can't remember the location, but yeah, They've set up, like, a specific place, which is actually in an art gallery. So the space already has great light, and it's used kind of exhibiting works. And now in instead of artworks, it's exhibiting fashion.
- [09:26]
C
Nice. I think that you're onto something with the showroom. Anyway. You were mentioning showrooms and the affordability and doing it in store. As seasons go on, you do see there's different media impact or all those terms that we use from a presentation versus a Runway show. I would be interested in knowing. Every season, like Clockwork, Alice and Olivia does a presentation, and it's these kind of vignettes. Like, very, like, themed. Like, there's a garden space. There's one that looks more like a fairy tale. Like, everything has a theme. A theme, A theme. People are standing there getting their perfect picture for a very long time. Like, this is very. Like, no doubt they've been in there for several days, setting up and just giving people time to get their picture of the model they want and the outfit they want. And they didn't miss it. As somebody's walking down the Runway, they. That's one thing. But at the same time, in addition to affordability and the photo op, like, I talked to Jenny Cain, who hasn't been showing at New York Fashion Week. She hasn't shown in two decades, but is coming back and incorporating. It's at her store. It's incorporating the clothing, the furniture, the wellness. Like, being able to present the full lifestyle, we know is something that everybody wants to do in store, but also, if you're able to do that via show and affordably, because you own the space. I mean, depends on how large the space, but it sounds like a really great opportunity to me.
- [11:01]
A
Yeah, no, I completely agree, and I'm working on it right now. By the time this episode is out, my story should be out. But I'm talking to a bunch of brands who are doing shows or presentations in their own spaces. And that's exactly what it is. I think it saves a lot of money. The other thing is, and I think this is related. I've been hearing from a lot of designers that they're like, we're going minimalist this season. Just, like, we're stripping away all the, like, all the fluff and, like, just focusing on the clothes, which I think is cool and, like, a good. You know, that is what it's supposed to be about. But it is. I feel like the subtext is. And it's also saving us a lot of money to do it that way.
- [11:34]
C
Yes, I was thinking that. I almost was thinking, I know that you had a little note here about the fact that Rachel Comey's models are doing their makeup and how like, it's very real. And also, you know, you don't have to get a hair and makeup sponsor and it saves you a lot of probably time in terms of the, the models, I mean, depending on the business model and how these, these designers are pulling off their shows. But yeah, it sounded affordable.
- [12:07]
A
Yeah, it's, it's funny. It's a little bit like we're, we're, we're using paper plates this time, you know, like, just because it's cool, even though it's clearly like to save some money. I also wanted to talk about, speaking of interesting show models, I wanted to just spend a little bit of time talking about what shows we're interested in. Not necessarily every show we're going to go to, but just ones that are notable or designers you guys are looking out for. There's a few for me. I'm looking forward to see Rachel Scott at Proenza. She just was announced as the new creative director at Proenza Schueller. We talked about this last week. Zofia, technically, her first collection for Proenza will be next season. She did work on the collection that they're showing this season as a consultant along with their design team. So even though it's not technically designed by Rachel Scott, she was pretty heavily involved. So I will be interested to see that as a little preview of what her version of Proenza might look like in future seasons. I think that would be cool. I have more, but I'll pause. What about you guys?
- [13:09]
B
Yeah, I think for me, obviously it's like the two kind of sided part for Rachel. Like one is obviously the Proenza aspect, but also I just want to see what she's doing as kind of the last transition over for Dyatima because then she'll be passing the reins on to her team. What will that kind of look like and how will she handle, I guess, the differences in creative identities for both brands? I think that's really interesting because obviously they're still very different. But at the same time, you can't deny the fact that most creative directors have a very specific eye and as a result it kind of ends up bleeding into everything that they do. So I'm really interested to see how she kind of juxtaposes those two.
- [13:53]
C
Yeah. And I'm thinking of the ones I'm going to, of course. But I mean, some standouts Last season that I'm going to again or like Todd Snyder really like building out menswear, styling it in unique ways. It was inspiring to me. And also Altazara really in terms of like you could tell a focus on merchandising with more bags, more shoes, like there was more to it. It felt very lux. But I'm writing about Alexander Wang today for a story that will go out tomorrow. Speaking of show venues and something that's intriguing, you know, back on the show schedule for the first time in two or three years. But I'll be interested to see what happens because he's showing in. He just bought. There was news on like the Real Deal and other place that he places that he bought a building in Chinatown. And Amy even talking to me, very secretive about what's happening there. But the show seems will be there. I think it still says location to be announced but like wink, wink, it's happening there. So anyway, wondering what's going on. We'll see.
- [15:02]
B
Yeah.
- [15:03]
A
It's always interesting to try to remember what people did in previous seasons and kind of compare it to the next season. One of the brands I talked to for this story about doing shows in their own spaces was Derek Lamb, 10 Crosby. They did their first show last season, their first New York Fashion Week show, and they're back again and this time they're doing it in their store. It's interesting to compare that to John Varvatos, who I'm also talking to this week, the COO from John Varvatos about they did their first show, not ever, but their first show in a long time last season. And then this season they're not doing an official New York Fashion Week. They're doing a store opening, an activation, things like that. It's interesting to see which brands continue. They hit on something in one season and then next season they're doing it again because it was a big hit versus ones who are quietly shuffle whatever they did last season off to the side because maybe it didn't hit. I'm really looking forward to the Rachel Antonoff and Susan Alexandra joint show. Last season they did a dog show and with a bunch of celebrities. Alison Roman. They had celebrities come out in the clothes, but also with dogs. And then the dogs were up for adoption. It was so fun. And this season they're just doing the exact same thing again. I think the dogs were a huge hit. I think people liked it a lot and they're just bringing it back for another time. So I'm excited for that fun.
- [16:24]
B
That's so interesting. Yeah, I'm talking to more kind of long term mainstays. So Cynthia Rowley, who's apparently got a major milestone, her 101st show at New York Fashion Week, which I feel like is an insane run. So that will be a fun kind of conversation. And then Hilary Taymor, who's obviously very well known as kind of the underdog, interesting, riotous colour collections with Collina Strada. And she'll be on the podcast as well to speak about how she's focusing on emerging designers, because that's obviously a big focus as well. There's been so many designers that can't put on those collections and there are still some very interesting ways of putting on a show or putting together a brand, you know, whether that's through social media activations or other things. So she'll speak about how she's helping those designers there. But it's really interesting, I think, to get all of these different perspectives on, you know, either people who have been showing for ages and can, you know, give the playbook as to what works with. Of New York Fashion Week, or else these kind of newcomers who are testing these new formats.
- [17:32]
C
Yeah, I was talking to. I mentioned. Danny and I were talking about people who are doing kind of two. Either two shows or two different formats. One that I got invited to that was like, you're in the 9:20 shift. They're doing two shows. And there's also. I talked to Tibby, Amy Smilovic, and she's doing two different setups. There will be something more intimate. That's for kind of Vic's or the top shoppers and top stylists. And then also the Runway show, which will be more for press and I forget, influence. Anyway, a smaller community. So we'll see. Did you guys get any invites for any that were any shows or any events that were kind of more intimate? A dinner, a breakfast, a. I don't. I got one for like Batsheva, who's doing a brunch on Sunday. Kind of informal, come in, come out. I also saw, which I would kill for this ticket, like our legacy is doing like something at Nordstrom, which just seems very small, but then doing a dinner with, I'm sure press and others. But that seems cool and an international brand. I think we were going to talk about some of those, but there are some cool things happening that are kind of more secretive, I would say.
- [18:55]
A
Yeah, I actually have gotten some of those too. Some of them I got invited to. Some of them I only heard about after the fact. But yeah, adm, I think, did a dinner this season. Earlier this week. I got an invite. Cinta Yohane, which I think is a Filipino American brand, is doing a brand launch kind of dinner event this week. So, yeah, there is a good amount of kind of small scale things like that. And like you said, some of these brands are doing bigger presentations or shows. And then in addition, a little one off thing. I wanted to ask Jill, did you get any. We were talking about brands kind of stripping things back, going minimalist. Are there any shows you're keeping an eye on or Zofia too that are the opposite, that are like going big, like big spectacle or that you think might be. Because I feel like there's not a ton that I've seen.
- [19:44]
C
Ooh, let me think about this. I mean, I'm interested to see what Christian Siriano's up to. Just because it's at Macy's. I don't know if that's a big splash of a thing. No, I don't know. How about you, Sophia?
- [20:07]
B
Yeah, I mean, I imagine that Ralph Lauren's going to do a slightly bigger thing, but that's just because every season it's always a bit of a spec. I think even for the bigger brands, they're kind of scaling back their shows a little bit. With Calvin Klein, I didn't think that that was a particularly massive launch last season. And I don't expect that there'll be anything super big this season either. I think it's more about kind of smaller events that have more impact. And maybe like what you said, Jill, it's about having multiple events catering to these kind of niche groups, whether that's influencers or press or buyers, just making it a little bit more tailored. I mean, everyone that we know has spoken about, you know, is this Fashion Week kind of write for them and, you know, is what's showing up on the Runway something that is right for them? You know, there's so many different objectives when you're going into Fashion Week. Like, either you're taking content or you're, you know, writing articles like us. Or else, you know, you're just showing up because you're supporting a brand. Like, I don't think that the objective for going to Fashion Week is the same for everyone anymore.
- [21:14]
C
Yes, but that's a good that, like, it's kind of a shame. Like, you think of the big spectacles that are like a, like, I don't know, a Broadway show. Like, it's entertainment. Like Thom Brown and he's no longer showing in New York. I mean, that was always kind of capped off the week. Something that was very captivating. I mean, Tommy Hilfiger is always something that's very much a show. And there's entertainment value and there's celebrity. There's some sort of a performance. Travis Barker is playing the drums. Like something's happening that's really over the top, whether it's the venue or. Yeah, performers, maybe they'll surprise us. But, yeah, nothing is on my radar as being major.
- [22:01]
A
Yeah. Another thing that is missing, and this is not scientific, but just my. My anecdotal observation. Feel like fewer big kind of international brands or fewer of those show concepts, where it's like a bunch of designers from Korea or a bunch of designers from this part of the world. I feel like that's often, like, at least in previous years, has been a big thing concept. Korea would often bring a bunch of Korean brands to show. I remember Alibaba used to do a thing bringing a bunch of Chinese fashion brands. There's been Latin American versions of kind of the same thing. I feel like I'm seeing less of that. Again, I don't have the raw data to confirm just my observation, but that seems like a notable absence as well.
- [22:46]
B
There's more African brands kind of on the schedule this season. I think that there's a couple of designers who are kind of still doing their own thing and want that main stage. But I think this is also coupled with the fact that because of a lot of these brands focusing on heritage, whether that's Carolina Herrera, who's now going to be showing in Madrid, it's about their roots and where they're originating from. I know that a lot of the international fashion weeks are now kind of trying to bring back some of these designers that have typically. Typically shown on more international stages. So whether that's kind of Latin Fashion Week, those designers are being called back to try and kind of bolster that international reputation. Asian designers are actually flying out people from Europe to go see shows in Hong Kong or Shanghai. I think there was a London designer who we've interviewed before called Patrick McDowell, who recently showed in Hong Kong as part of an international exhibit. And I think that that's happening more now. So perh. Perhaps as well, there's international designers who are almost kind of going back to their roots rather than showing on these international stages, which ultimately means that there's going to be a need for more American designers with New York Fashion Week.
- [24:01]
C
Agree. Yeah, I'm not seeing definitely none of these kind of multiple designer showcases. The only thing I'm seeing in that realm is I've got on my calendar, that calendar, that complex is doing kind of a brand to know showcase. But they're not, you know, international. There's Raul Lopez of LUAR and some other kind of noteworthy designers, but others coming in are like the totem designers are. Which is, I mean, great. But yeah, no showcases.
- [24:36]
A
Yeah, I think there is a swim. Let me double check this. Yeah, there's a New York Fashion Week show powered by Miami Swim Week, which is showing a bunch of swim brands kind of together. So that's like one of the few kind of multi brand showcases that, that I've seen. But I do think this transitions us well into our. The last thing I wanted to talk about was just like sort of the identity of New York Fashion Week. There's been a lot of, you know, we talk about this every season it feels like, but brand. There's a lot of American brands that maybe show at New York Fashion Week and once they get big, they move to Paris or Milan or something. Willy Chavari going to be showing in Paris this season, although an interesting thing he's doing, which Jill, you and I talked about the other day. There is a pre sale event happening in New York at Print Homme where they're showing off pieces from Willi Chavario's upcoming Paris show ahead of time and you can go and pre order and that kind of stuff, which I feel like is maybe throwing a little bone to New York. The real show will be in Paris, but we'll do a little something in New York for the American audience, which is nice. But it does feel like every single season, you know, a lot of big brands, especially once they start to get big, end up moving to Milan or Paris, which does leave the question of like what is kind of New York Fashion Week for. And I talked with a designer the other day who was saying she really feels like it's a great opportunity for like an advanced contemporary brand. Like someone who's maybe not like super high luxury but you know, is maybe in a little bit of a lower price point or something. But it's still, you know, does collections and season is seasonal and that kind of stuff, which I think is true. Just looking at the schedule and seeing the things that are happening at like Macy's like you said, Jill. So maybe that's like the closest thing to like the identity of the week in my opinion. But I'm not sure what you guys think.
- [26:29]
C
Yeah, I think there is definitely a shift, an emerging kind of Definition of New York Fashion Week that is contemporary and advanced contemporary. I think these brands are taking over. Kate Barton, who, again, who I talk to was like she was talking about advanced contemporary being her, her focus. I mean, obviously talking about how she's kind of happy to be in that space as luxury kind of struggles and slows. But yeah, more, I think they're thriving in this space. Like, like you said Cynthia Rowley for season after season after season after season.
- [27:05]
A
A hundred times. Yeah.
- [27:07]
C
And there is more. Like I've been to Paris Fashion Week one, but I'm not seeing a lot of these, like, hands on presentations, more accessibility, more showing your lifestyle. It is very much clean space, white Runway, like models looking very serious. Like there's, it's, it's more serious. It does feel inaccessible. So anyway, a different vibe.
- [27:32]
B
Yeah, I think what I spoke about with Isam Rain, you know, who kind of focused on the KFN and the future formats for New York Fashion Week, is that this idea of New York Fashion Week, some of its strengths kind of come down to its commercial potential, similarly to the way the biggest events in the world are sometimes held in the us like the US Open that just wrapped something like that is meant to be almost like a model for the future editions of New York Fashion Week, where it blends in all of those kind of city elements. There's more kind of involvement with culture. So whether that's music or museums. New York has such a unique identity and there's still a lot that is quite, as you mentioned, inaccessible to regular people who still want to be part of New York Fashion Week. I think you mentioned some numbers that there's like 250,000 visitors to New York during New York Fashion Week. And that's a thing that could be a kind of potential way for expanding New York Fashion Week similarly to what they've done with LA Fashion Week in the past. I'm wondering if that kind of makes it a bit of a better evolution of what's to come. And again, it kind of poses that question whether New York Fashion Week should now be just one edition a year, just for September, rather than having two. Because that's something that we've talked about as well before.
- [28:55]
C
Yes. Because Kate Barton is only showing in September. It's her second show. She showed last September. We know Tibby only shows in September. And some of the bigger, the bigger brands are only doing that. There is that kind of. There's an emerging model that I think is interesting. You mentioned Wes Gordon and Carolina Herrera showing in Madrid this season and going more international. But we know from Wes Gordon being on our podcast, he talked a lot about. I just recently had a re listen because he's coming to St. Louis for an event, but he talked about how he basically tours the States and he makes a moment of it. Like he'll go. He's coming here to do a talk. I think Derek Blasberg is interviewing him. They're selling tickets. He's gonna do a talk about the business, but he's also doing a trunk show while he's here. And he's got, like, four things lined up to make it very, like, worth his while and a moment for the business. And I think. I mean, that's interesting. An interesting kind of combination of tactics there, especially if you're not showing in the States.
- [29:59]
A
Yeah. Well, I think we're almost out of time. And there's one more thing I wanted to ask you guys, which is how many Labubus do you expect to see over the course of the week? I will be taking note and counting them.
- [30:11]
B
Oh, my gosh.
- [30:13]
C
I saw one at. We just recently had our pop event in New York, and it was more a beauty event, but, you know, the dress code was Fashion Week chic. And so anyway, I. I think that was a sign of things to come, maybe. Is that the accessory of the week? Oh, my gosh. And flats. I don't know those. I think everybody will be wearing cute flats. What do you think, Sophia? Oh, ballet sneakers.
- [30:40]
B
Definitely ballet sneakers. I'm also seeing some, like, wind parkers coming about. I feel like that's going to be a bit of a trend. Everyone wants to be practical. I don't know if you guys remember, like, the 2010 green jacket, like, the kind of olive slash, like, camouflage thing that everyone wore. I feel like that's definitely going to be an item, but, yeah, really excited to see what's. What's going to be the trend of the season. I'm sure Libby Booze will make a feature.
- [31:06]
C
Yes. I think Vogue was recommending blazer. And I mean, easy peasy. It was like blazer and jeans. And they were referencing that look that, like, Julia Roberts or whoever. The multiple.
- [31:17]
B
The.
- [31:17]
C
The rewarn look. I'm like, I want to wear that. I'm glad that's in. That looks comfortable.
- [31:25]
A
Well, thank you guys so much. This was good conversation, and I will see you all on the other side of New York Fashion Week. And thank you for listening to the glossy podcast. Don't forget to give us a rating and a review on Apple podcast or Spotify wherever you listen to this because that helps us out so much. And don't forget to subscribe to the glossy podcast to hear interviews with industry insiders and weekend review segments where we break down the news. The new episodes come out every Friday. Until the next time, thanks for listening.