← The Glossy Podcast
The Glossy Podcast
NBA Draft fashion, Skims x Cavalli and LVMH's flip-flops — plus, inside the launch of Daydream
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- [00:03]
Danny Parisi
So you're scaling globally. But if you're accepting higher fees, failed payments and tax complexity off the rack, that's not a good look. Reach is a merchant of record that helps leading fashion brands streamline cross border operations with local payments, fraud protection and automated tax compliance already integrated into the platforms you use. Simplified global selling is always in style. Learn more@withreach.com glossy hello and welcome back to the Glossy podcast. I'm your host, senior fashion reporter Danny Parisi, and I'm here with our editor in chief, Jill Manoff. Hello, Jill. How are you doing?
- [00:50]
Jill Manoff
Hello. Good morning. Great. How are you?
- [00:53]
Danny Parisi
I'm good. Thank you for being here. I'm excited to talk to you. We have some fun topics today. We're going to start by talking about the NBA draft, which was on Wednesday. We've covered the NBA draft and the WNBA draft on glossy the last couple years and both have become big fashion events. So we'll talk about some of the looks from that. We're also going to talk about this collaboration between Roberto Cavalli and Skims, which was announced this week, which had some very cool retro designs and marketing. And then lastly, we're going to talk about Paris. Men's Fashion Week is happening right now. Louis Vuitton showed some flip flops and we're going to dive into why men are showing their toes more than ever these days.
- [01:29]
Jill Manoff
Yes.
- [01:32]
Danny Parisi
I know the scandal. And then after that we're going to have a short break. And then later in the episode, our international reporter Zofia Zvyglinska talked to the team from Daydream, which is a new kind of fashion AI Tool that launched this week from Julie Borenstein, who is the co founder and CEO of the. Yes. So big news there. And Zofia had a good conversation with them. But let's start, Jill, you and I talking about the news. So like I said, the NBA draft was last night. I won't even pretend to know much about the actual sports part. I know Cooper Flag was the number one pick. I'm not a big basketball guy, so sorry about that. But I do know about the fashion industry. And like I said at the top, I think both the NBA draft and the WNBA draft have become big kind of fashion moments. And this one was no different. There were some big brands there, Prada and Louboutin and Hublot, I found out, made the watch that Cooper Flagg wore. There were a lot of fancy watches on display. Yeah. There's a bunch of things we could talk about in terms of trends. We Saw from what people were wearing and also kind of just the reason brands care so much. But I don't know. Where do you want to start, Jill?
- [02:39]
Jill Manoff
I mean maybe just yeah, some of the trends that kind of stood out to me. And plus I was just telling our producer so young and they just like were very. I don't want to like act like they're kids cute like talking about like why they chose things to wear. Like a lot of it had a lot of meaning. It was tied to family. A lot of them flipped open their blazer and had like a fabric made out of images of their family and their girlfriends and all the people that they care about, which was nice.
- [03:06]
Danny Parisi
Yeah.
- [03:07]
Jill Manoff
But there's also a lot of brooches, a lot of diamond necklaces, like a long pendant diamond necklaces that were really statements sneakers which was very appropriate for, for the guys. But we talked about, we didn't see, you know, we typically for these types of events, WNBA draft, etc. Get a lot of pitches or I guess announcements in our inbox about who wore what in this brand dress. This person didn't see a lot of that. And maybe it has to do with these guys are similar 6, 10. And maybe a lot of the brands don't like. I mean everything's custom for them obviously. And I'm sure the brands could have figured it out maybe that I don't know what, what it had to do with it. But Cooper flag number one pick. We know War Boss. He's an ambassador. He's got a lot of deals going on. Like last year he was signed with New Balance. I think he's rolling and doing very well. But he also wore Louboutin loafers. But yeah, I've got some best dressed and such. But what other trends do you see?
- [04:11]
Danny Parisi
Well, I wanted to pause for a second on something you mentioned which is the big diamond necklaces. Many of the players actually had their necklaces were their initials or their names. So I counted at least for Cedric Coward had a huge diamond. CC Ace Bailey had a huge diamond, A B. Thomas Sorber had a huge diamond. TS and then Jeremiah Fiers just had a big necklace that just said Fears in huge letters. So it feels like that was. I don't know if they coordinated or what. I feel like I didn't notice that in previous years, but that was kind of a funny trend. It's probably not going to be a very everyday look that people can copy. It's like maybe if you're getting drafted to the NBA, you can wear something like that. And I also wanted to just agree with you that I feel like I did not see a ton of buzz ahead of the draft about the fashion. I did not get a ton of pitches the way I normally do. I was googling around the other day and didn't really see much in terms of brands talking ahead of time about who they were dressing. The only one I found out about beforehand was hublot. And that's just because I asked them and they told me confidentially before the draft that they were going to be on the wrists of some of the players. That's the only one I knew about. And it's because I reached out to them. It definitely was notable that there was not as much promotion ahead of time, although it seems like there was not necessarily less representation from big brands. Like, it feels like they were still there. They just maybe didn't talk about it as much beforehand.
- [05:39]
Jill Manoff
Maybe we'll see it today. We're talking on Thursday. We questioned whether I think Jeremiah Farr is his name. He looked like, he looked like he had a deep red Gucci print suit. Someone commented like, is this a Dapper Dan suit? Like, I don't know that, you know, we saw that on the Gucci Runway or that Gucci actually made it. But maybe, I mean, maybe we'll hear from Gucci. It looked very Gucci in terms of like Alessandro Era or something. But there was also talk that Dylan Harper wore Versace. It was that black kind of Jacquard or it had that kind of raised print type that was kind of subtle. And we questioned also whether Trey Johnson was wearing Tom Brown. It was very. A suit was short, so immediately think Tom Brown. Also it was very hot. So maybe it was planned going in. There was a lot of talk about these guys on the red carpet where or whatever color the carpet. We're in like a three piece suit and it was like 100 degrees in New York. I mean, I might have worn shorts. Good call.
- [06:41]
Danny Parisi
It was brutal in New York the last couple days. Although again, you said Thursday morning, it's much nicer today outside. So. But yeah, I noticed that as well. Another trend I noticed and I don't really know what to make of this because it's not something I've really seen before. Was a lot of players wearing a shirt that exactly matched their suit.
- [07:00]
Jill Manoff
Yes.
- [07:01]
Danny Parisi
So a couple that I noticed, Colin Murray Boyles wore a navy pinstripe suit with white pinstripes and his shirt was the exact same color and also pinstriped in material. So it kind of Just blended in. That one was very noticeable because the suit and the shirt were a pattern. But there was Also Walter Clayton Jr. Wore a deep green suit with a deep green shirt that was the same color. Not as kind of noticeable because it wasn't a pattern. There was also Khan Noople, I hope I'm saying his name right. Wore just like a dark kind of like a midnight blue tuxedo, but with a matching exact same color shirt and tie. And I'm like, not again, sort of like with the diamond necklace. I'm like, I didn't really know that was a trend. I haven't really seen that exact look before of like a suit and shirt that are kind of look like they're made from the same material. It's definitely not a traditional look, but I'm not against it.
- [07:53]
Jill Manoff
That's interesting. Yeah, I noticed that too. Like Connor Murray Bowles was one of my favorite best dress. So it looked so good with the navy matchy matchy pinstriped. But that's interesting because it's definitely a look. I think that it might be like a borrowed from the gals kind of a look because just like a lot of them were wearing pearls and brooches and all the things. But like you know, we've been doing. It's a look that I love. Like there's this like iconic look where Zendaya wore like a red shirt with a red, you know, red suit. And it was just like, you know, it's so statement when you're, when you're head to toe, match, match. So anyway, I didn't notice the trend, but you're so right, it looked good.
- [08:31]
Danny Parisi
Yeah. And then last thing we should say about the NBA draft is just that it is a pretty big deal. I mean it has. I was looking at the numbers in the last three years, counting this year, it's had between 4 and 5 million viewers every year. Sometimes it fluctuates a little bit down or up. But it's been pretty consistently a big kind of media event. A lot of people watch. We talked about the WNBA draft is similar. And I think for the brands, many of these athletes are going to be household names or some already are. Like you said, Cooper Flag already is extremely well known and already has brand deals. Some of them maybe don't have brand deals yet, but this was their first deal or they will in the future. And so I think for the brands it kind of pays to. And this is something we've said before, it pays to get in with these athletes at the early stages of their career. And maybe if you dress them for the draft, maybe they become super loyal to you. And then when they're winning NBA championships and stuff, they're like still wearing your clothes. So maybe that doesn't need to be spelled out. But I do think that's why brands care about the draft for sure.
- [09:33]
Jill Manoff
Did you have a best dress?
- [09:35]
Danny Parisi
One of my favorites, maybe my favorite of the night was Joan Behringer with this kind of blush pink double breasted jacket, white shirt, no tie, and then black pants. I just really. I've always liked a dinner jacket kind of look with like black or navy pants with a lighter colored jacket, like tuxedo jacket over it. Very classic. The pink is just a little bit, you know, unusual. And the no tie is also like a little bit outside traditional tuxedo look. But I thought it looked great. So that was my favorite. And I think the NBA draft, like often, sometimes you. Even with like, you know, a stylist and brands dressing them, I think sometimes the players look like they're in high school a little bit in terms of how they're dressed. And I thought this was very, a mature look. I thought it looked very confident. And it didn't look like somebody had dressed him, you know.
- [10:25]
Jill Manoff
Yeah, good call. We didn't even address the evolution of NBA draft fashion in that nobody looked like they were wearing their dad's suit, which was great to see. I love that too. I was searching this while you were talking about it. Cause I wrote him down as somebody who was dressed very well because I thought that it was a pink jacket with kind of a, I don't know, a brownish. Like it looked very tonal to me. But you're right, it was black pants. I liked the tonal, but I also like the black.
- [10:51]
Danny Parisi
It might be the. Just the photo I'm. I'm looking at. It looks black to me.
- [10:54]
Jill Manoff
Yeah, it's really cute.
- [10:55]
Danny Parisi
But with brown shoes instead of black shoes, which is also a little bit of an unusual choice. But anyway, there's lots of good looks there and some players I think. You know what, actually I won't even go down that path since we've talked a lot about the NBA draft. Ready? Let's just stop there. Let's move on to our next topic. I want to talk a little bit about the Skims and Roberto Cavalli collaboration which just was announced this week and I believe is coming out on Friday, the same day that this episode comes out. But Skims has been around since 2019, six years now, and they have had A slew of high profile collaborations. They've done Nike, they've done Dolce and Gabbana, they've done Fendi, they've done the NBA. And I'm not sure what it is that draws in these big, big names. Kim herself, probably the star power there, but they've done some really incredible collaborations. And this one, I think is no different. It's very retro 80s kind of animal print designs. It's all focused on swimwear, which is a big category for skims. And, um, I thought it was cool and I think there's more to unpack in terms of like the retro ness. But I will pause there. What did you make of the collaboration?
- [12:06]
Jill Manoff
Yeah, it was surprising. Not surprising in terms of like, it is definitely a brand that you've seen Kris Jenner wear before, who also was in the the ad with her new face. Good timing. She's getting a lot of buzz for that. But also, speaking of the retro vibe, what I was just looking up is the photographer or, or director or I probably both for this photo shoot was Nadia Lee Cohen. And that's somebody that, you know, has shot for Balenciaga and a lot of big fashion brands. But also that Kim has worked with a lot lately. Like, she, she was behind that Santa baby. Very odd kind of video that got a lot of attention recently or fairly recently within the year. Was it around Christmas, Santa Baby? Anyway, I think so. But yeah, that's definitely her vibe. Like very. Yeah, retro, old school. Like this had a very kind of Italian glamour element to it as well. So it's cool.
- [13:10]
Danny Parisi
Well, and we were talking, I believe it was earlier this week, you and I, Joe, about red carpet looks or photo shoots that are made now. A lot of them are very frequently referencing specific photo shoots or specific red carpet dresses. Sometimes wearing like a celebrity might show up wearing the exact same dress that like Julia Roberts wore in like, you know, the 90s or something. And we were talking about how people always reference stuff from before. Like, that's not new at all. But there's definitely a trend of. I think there's more of a trend recently of recreating specific looks. And I don't think this Roberto Cavalli, a photo shoot necessarily recreates a specific photo shoot. It certainly looks like an 80s photo shoot. But I do think the bathing suits themselves, which do have like these huge, like lion face print, are pretty much exact things that Cavalli has made in the past. I'm not sure if they're 100% identical, but it was pretty easy to find vintage Cavalli bathing suits with like a cheetah's face that look very similar. Just like with one minute of searching.
- [14:11]
Jill Manoff
You're not kidding. You know, they actually have names of these prints, iconic prints. There's the tiger face, the light zebra. So just taking those prints, putting them on kind of skims silhouettes, maybe updated a tad. It's interesting. I wonder if we're going to see. What I thought was especially interesting was the fact that. I don't know, I have a hunch, probably this is how like Dolce and Gabbana and the Fendi collabs were sold. But in. In addition to skims sales channels, it's sold at Roberto Cavalli boutiques, I guess select boutiques and also luxury retailers like Print Homies in New York. And so, you know, obviously, like luxury struggling. Obviously people are pinching their pennies to be able to have these. The prices haven't come out for this yet, if they will on Friday as this goes live. But you would think that this is definitely more affordable than their typical merchandise and this is a perk for them as well. So I have a hunch we'll see more of these kind of diffusion or like more affordable collabs down the road.
- [15:13]
Danny Parisi
Yes. Which. And Cavalli has done that before. Didn't they do a big collaboration with H and M years ago, I think in 2007 or something? Yeah, it's. It. I agree that definitely there's. If you're going to. And if you're going to do a diffusion line, if you're a luxury brand and you are kind of like needing to do a little bit of lower price thing to boost the business. Skims is probably a good one to work with because they already have. They're not a luxury product in terms of price, but they have done lots of luxury collaborations. I feel like it's got sort of a type of cred that you wouldn't necessarily get if you collaborated with like Macy's or something. No shade to Macy's, but it's just like a different vibe, you know?
- [15:54]
Jill Manoff
Agree. I'll be interested to see. There's this one dress that's called the underwire dress. I think that's more of a floral print as opposed to an animal print. It definitely just looks like a Cavalli dress. Like how much that is price for. I have a hunch, like, oh, three, 400 maybe, but hopefully not more. It'll be interesting to see where they go with that.
- [16:14]
Danny Parisi
Yeah. One final thing on Cavalli I wanted to say is I have seen that Roberto Cavalli, specifically vintage Roberto Cavalli is very popular with some Gen Z people. It's on their mood boards and stuff. And I was thinking about how whenever I talk to a resale company or secondhand luxury people, they're always saying that, like, you young people get into the brand through buying it secondhand first because it's cheaper. And I wonder if that creates a thing where it's like, do young people like Roberto Cavalli or do they like 80s Roberto Cavalli? Cause that's what they have bought from secondhand places or what they got from their mom or something. And then that pushes the brand to kind of like recreate those styles or pull archival stuff because it's not Roberto Cavalli now that's popular. It's Roberto Cavalli from three or four decades ago that's popular. I don't know. That's purely speculation. But I. I feel like that's happening.
- [17:06]
Jill Manoff
You're onto something. There are certain brands you can find for really cheap at the RealReal and such. And I bought it. I bought the brand before off the RealReal where you find a deal, it happens to be on sale. And yeah, I have never looked at new Cavalli.
- [17:21]
Danny Parisi
But anyway, let's move on to our last topic. It's Men's Fashion Week in Paris. D? Dior is going to be showing its first collection under Jonathan Anderson again on Friday when this episode comes out. So when we're recording it, we haven't seen it yet. I wanted to talk about the Louis Vuitton show, specifically the new LV flip flop that they debuted. It's chunky, it's very luxurious looking. It comes in crocodile leather and all the classic things that they styled it with a lot of loose linen pants and everything like that. And I wanted to talk about just men's toes being out more often. Let's talk men's toes. Let's talk men's toes. I feel like there is a trend happening, which I only really picked up on from looking at this show and then kind of hunting around a little bit of, yeah, flip flops and sandals and. As opposed to like espadrilles or boat shoes or other sort of summery shoes that do cover your feet. I feel like. And I'm seeing. I'm talking like run. Maybe not red carpet exactly, but there's. There was a press event for the new Jurassic World movie last week, I think, and Jonathan Bailey was wearing a full outfit from the Row, including A sweater, loose pants and flip flops. And this was like, like, you know, again, not like it wasn't a premiere, not a red carpet look exactly, but it was like a public appearance and it was just toes out from like a big celebrity. So I've seen Birkenstocks everywhere. I wear Birkenstocks, but I wear the mule ones with the toes covered because I'm a coward. But I don't know, there's something. There's something happening here. What do you think, Joe?
- [18:54]
Jill Manoff
Yeah, guys, you have to have a pedicure happening. Not painted, just clean it. Clean that stuff up. But yeah, this is risky business. I think there are a lot of, like, do's and don'ts of wearing flip flops. Like, you don't want to wear them with jeans, which Louis Vuitton only showed them with suits and only showed them with dress pants. And also you don't want to wear them. The rules always been like, you don't want to wear them in New York or in like a city. And there have recently been some stories like and Marie Claire that like Zoe Kravitz, oh my gosh, she broke the rules. She was walking around in the row. Sandals or some sandals. So I think there's some normalization of flip flops. I think you mentioned the row. That's one that has brought it back in a big way. And they've got these. Ah, they're a rubber sole flip flop. They're like, I mean, they're not something leather, like a Louis Vuitton next level. I'm sure they're special in their own Way, but 700 to $750 for a rubber flip flop? Anyway, it's crazy, but, you know, Prada has one that's around 750. I've always been, you know, a fan of the flip flop. Something about it to me also reads 90s. It reminds me of like Jennifer Aniston a lot wore flip flops. She did like a little cargo kind of, I don't know, crop pant with her flip flops. It was a look with a little tank top. So, you know, I like them for girls. For girls. But yeah, yeah.
- [20:15]
Danny Parisi
And I think it takes a lot of bravery for, for men to wear flip flops, especially in like a fashiony way. Like there's plenty of guys grilling in the backyard wearing flip flops. But wearing it like out in a fashion way, I think is. Takes a lot more effort. And at men's, at Men's Fashion Week, it wasn't just Louis Vuitton There was also Prada showed some men's sandal with, like, a toe ring. Kind of your big toe, like, slides into this ring to keep it in place.
- [20:43]
Jill Manoff
Definitely from the girls, too. We've had that for a couple of years.
- [20:47]
Danny Parisi
Yep. I know I'm, like, saying it like it's this exotic new idea, but Emporio Armani, I think, showed some sandals as well. Definitely. There's a lot of experimentation in men's fashion in general over the last couple years, and people have been talking for a while about how men are more emboldened to try new things and stuff. But I feel like toes is the final frontier. It's like you could wear a snowfur more easily than wearing flip flops for some men.
- [21:15]
Jill Manoff
Oh, my. Is this the gateway to more toe fun? You're going to be wearing toe rings. You're going to have an ankle bracelet.
- [21:21]
Danny Parisi
An anklet. Yeah. Get rid of capris. Might come back.
- [21:27]
Jill Manoff
Oh, yes.
- [21:28]
Danny Parisi
Capris come back. And then last.
- [21:32]
Jill Manoff
Go ahead.
- [21:33]
Danny Parisi
Last thing I wanted to say is I think there's other factors contributing as well. Obviously, there was a heat wave, like we said, in New York, and every year in general is, like, hotter than the year before. So that's. I think my closet has much more linen in it now than it used to, just because the summer gets so hot in New York. And then the other thing is, Pitti uomo just happened, and I talked to a bunch of the brands that were there, and I was asking people, like, trends in menswear that they're seeing, and everybody said the exact same thing, which is casualization is still a huge thing. And even when you're dressing up, I think there's, like, feeling of, how many rules can I break and still look good in menswear? And, you know, if you wore plastic, you know, $2 flip flops, it would like. And, like, cargo shorts, it would, like, look bad. But I think if you can wear Louis Vuitton flip flops made of leather with, like, a nice suit and it looks good, there's no reason not to from sort of a decorum perspective, because a lot of those, like, traditional rules of what you can and can't wear are kind of just, like, don't matter as much in menswear.
- [22:40]
Jill Manoff
I love that anymore. Yeah, I thought it looked good. I mean, I don't know. And it's nice that you felt like you could borrow this look. Like you didn't have to maybe buy into the Louis Vuitton. It's something you could replicate for sure. And yeah, it felt like a more substantial sandal. Great leather had some little like handbag details, some very, I don't know, discreet hardware. It's cute.
- [23:02]
Danny Parisi
I'm gonna probably be still be wearing my Birkenstocks that cover my toes and my sperries this summer, but I'm definitely considering flip flops more than I ever was before. But we'll see if it brings me over the line. I think that's all the time we have for our week in review section. But like I said at the top of the episode, stick around after a short break because our international reporter Zofia Zvaglinska spoke to the team from Daydream. I won't steal Zofia's thunder, but I went to the launch event of Daydream earlier this week. I got a demo from the team. I talked with Julie Bornstein a little bit about it. I am on the record as an AI skeptic and some might say AI hater and I still thought it was kind of cool. It was one of the AI related things I've seen. One of the few that actually sold me to some degree that it could be useful.
- [23:53]
Jill Manoff
Daydream did the impossible. You've sold Danny. Amazing. Yeah. I'm excited to play around and get in there. I was on the wait list and now I'm off the wait list so I will be shopping.
- [24:04]
Danny Parisi
Stick around after a short break to hear Zofia speaking with Lisa Yamner Green, who is Daydream's co founder and Chief Brands Officer, who again I met the other day. She was very nice. It's going to be a good conversation. I also want to remind our listeners that we are off next week. There will be no episode of the Glossy podcast, but we'll be back the week after that. Saving money, selling internationally and boosting your transaction approval rates is always in style as a merchant of record. Reach helps ambitious fashion and beauty brands optimize global sales with local payments, fraud protection and done for you. Tax compliance from registration to filing and remitting, Reach is already integrated into the platforms you use. So activation is fast. No coding, no extra dev work. Brands like Revolve and Everlane use Reach to increase approval rates to over 90% and cut cross border costs by up to 40% while eliminating the stress of global compliance. Learn how to unlock the full potential of your global sales@withreach.com glossy that's withreach.com glossy.
- [25:23]
Zofia Zvyglinska
I'm here with Lisa Yamna Green, co founder and Chief Brands Officer at Daydream. Lisa brings deep fashion and tech expertise, having previously served as Chief Commercial officer at the yes for four years and led some brand partnerships there in the post Pinterest kind of acquisition. And earlier in her career she held leadership roles at Conde nast and Google NYC as one of first 200 New York hires. And we're here to talk about Daydream, the AI powered chat boutique from the to industry veterans. Also Julie Bornstein who is not with us today. And this is set to address the challenge of fashion discovery and shopping. So it doesn't just show you more products, but helps you find exactly what you never knew you needed. And it's also not the only one. There's a flurry of chat based AI startups like Alta Cherry also getting in on AI led shopping. So in the next 20 minutes or so we'll unpack Daydream's public beta which went live today. So it's June 25th, see how it stacks up against ChatGPT, Google, am I Mode and some of the other versions, and bring Lisa on to reveal her vision for the future of shopping. So, hi Lisa, it's lovely to have you on. Exciting day for Daydream.
- [26:34]
Lisa Yamner Green
Yes. Hi Sophia. Thank you for having me on today. It's a big day and I'm really excited to be able to share everything with you.
- [26:41]
Zofia Zvyglinska
Yeah. And so tell me a little bit more about Daydream. I know that you've had so much great experience in terms of tech and fashion and shopping. How has that informed what Daydream is today?
- [26:53]
Lisa Yamner Green
I really feel like Daydream is the culmination of everything I ever dreamed shopping could be and everything I never really thought was possible. My sister and I always used to talk about, wouldn't it be amazing if there were some sort of way where when you, where you sort of like walk into that corner boutique and you have a sales associate who knows your name, who knows your size, who knows all your style preferences, who even might know what it is that you're shopping for. And like pulls everything into a dressing room, has those like 10 items you like, seven of them. You know, you, you try them all on you, you end up with three definites, two maybes, and now I've lost my math. But one or two nos or whatever that is, and wouldn't it be amazing if you could just sort of recreate that experience online? And that's really what we're able to do with Daydream. And it's technology that I feel like we're so lucky to have to finally be an era where these things can be made possible. And I think there's so much buzz right now about AI. And there's a lot, actually, I feel like a lot of sort of negative buzz. And what we found is that what we've created with Daydream is a really positive, really tangible use of AI. So we're making people's lives easier. We're allowing them to give us all of the inputs that they want us to have so that we can help people shop better online, more efficiently, more with more fun, with more, more real life. You know, like there's no game theorying the keywords. You don't have to come in and filter 900 different things. You show up on Daydream, you give us a few answers to some questions and then we know exactly how to find what you want. And then it's a conversation. So you know what, like your first set of results may or may not be exactly what you want, but you're able to keep talking and keep narrowing it down until you find that 1, 2, 5, however many things that it is that you actually want to buy, you can save them to a collection, you can click out and buy it directly from a brand site, but you can feel a certain sense of confidence that you found what's appropriate for the occasion that you want to buy it for. Or you know, it's a great new basic to add to your closet or your summer capsule wardrobe or. And you know that you're shopping from a set of highly credible fashion forward brands as well.
- [29:13]
Zofia Zvyglinska
Yeah, of course. And a big part of that is the style passport and obviously AI's features which, remember your past conversations, are able to kind of make suggestions based on your style passport and what likes and you don't like. I think with E commerce and fashion nowadays there's so much, as you mentioned, around kind of rigid keywords, there's filtered ux. You know, if you search for a black MIDI dress, it's kind of an endless impersonal scroll of just black MIDI dresses that don't really suit your style. And the industry also faces very high return rates. You know, 30 to 40% of items are returned because of either poor fit visualization. You know, that's something that you're also hoping to address I think in future versions. And there's also a lack of context, occasion season, Mood in standard search. And one of the main features that you guys have is that you seem to put that directly into the search bar both around Mood, which I'd love to go into a little bit later on, but also just general discovery. Why is that better than maybe searching on Google or searching through ChatGPT?
- [30:16]
Lisa Yamner Green
So you take the basic searching on Google and like you said, I spent 12 years at Google. I have a ton of respect for the company. I truly believe that they've changed a lot of games. They're not just a game changer. But it's really not a place to go to shop for fashion. It is most certainly built for the masses. It doesn't take certain things into account. So there's not a whole lot of catalog discernment. When you do a search on Google, you can, even in AI mode, even in any of these places, you are still getting results from Temu and Neiman Marcus all on the same line. There's not personalization taken into account unless it's in the ads. There's a lot of ads playing in that space. So while there's a degree of relevancy, you can always be certain that you're finding actually what the best item is for for you. And so what we really do is the user is at the center of what we're doing. It is about the shopper and who she is, what she likes to shop for. And then the query is the next big thing, right? So then what is she shopping for? And so we really take that combination of what is she looking for, what is she asking us for? And then who is she to find the best set of results for her? So, you know, you'll see that if you use it alongside any of your friends and you will see a different sort of results because they'll be prioritized back to you, not to the advertiser or the brand. And then on the flip side, you asked about ChatGPT, which I think is a really interesting question and obviously something that we've been looking at a lot. ChatGPT gives you the top results on the Internet. It's not necessarily giving you the sort of fashion forward answers. And so what we did with Daydream was we really built in a level of fashion intelligence so that what you know is that you're not just seeing like a bunch of products that come up when you know some sort of AI is searching the Internet. But we're actually giving you products that make sense in a fashion mode, right? Like in this sense of what would, what is suggested by stylists, by sort of fashion experts, by people who know what's appropriate to wear to different occasions. And then we combine that back with and who are you, what do you like to wear? So how does your sense of style and your preferences fit into what it is that you're looking for?
- [32:41]
Zofia Zvyglinska
And I think that that's the thing is that personalization, that deep understanding of fashion and the industry. You know, I know that you had a press day yesterday and one of my colleagues was there testing out all of the features with Daydream. And I'm interested, you know, to learn a little bit more about what you have done in terms of the kind of hand picked items, the collections, all of those more curated elements that link it back to Fashion editor perhaps, rather than just a search engine.
- [33:08]
Lisa Yamner Green
You know, there's a few different things that you can do when you get to the Daydream homepage. Once you've completed your onboarding profile, which is really just a few quick questions so that we can get to know you a little bit better, then you'll have a few different ways where you can start shopping with us. So there's the obvious chat box, which is what you and I have been talking about. So you can show up at this box, you can start a conversation like you would with your friend, with a stylist, with just with a colleague, with your mom, with anybody. You could upload a picture which would also, you know, kick off that search of you're looking for something, you know, similar to that picture. If you had your phone, you could talk just directly into your phone to initiate that. But maybe you've shown up, you've heard Daydream's a great place to shop. You're somebody who loves to shop, but you actually like, you're not. You're just in that sort of like lean back mode that you're ready to start shopping, but you want to relax. You don't really know what you're looking for. You probably have a million things you could buy, but not sure what you want to buy. And so you could scroll through your daily edit, which is all based back to your style passport. So it's a refresh of products that are pulled for you. They're something you haven't necessarily seen before. They're all based back on that style passport. And it changes every day. So every day you'll see a different set of things being suggested for you in your daily passport. And again, that's all sort of just back to you and your behaviors and you know, what you've been doing and what it is that you really like. And then the other thing is there's a layer where you can shop off of stylists. So we have a series of different stylists that we're working with. They make up what we're calling our Fashion Council. And they're real fashion authorities and they have built some collections that you can just get some inspiration off of. And so you might click in to see the Heidi Bivins. Heidi Bivens has built us a few collections. She was the costume designer for Euphoria. She's like, really fantastic, super cool sense of style. And she's like shopping for summer right now. So she's built a collection, a few collections. One of them is, like, what to buy for a vacation to Nantucket. She's got everything in there from, like cute beach totes to sunglasses to bikinis, to what to wear out to dinner while you're there. And those are really just meant to serve as like another sense of inspiration coming from an authority. But the coolest thing is you could click into it and you might see a beach tote that Heidi's recommending and it might be a Loewe tote that's just out of your price range. And so you could actually use the say more feature. At that point, you could tap say More on the actual Loewe tote, which will then allow you to say, I want this but less expensive, or I want this but with a different strap. So you actually can start to use these sort of like fashion authorities as a way to start gearing your search, which is just like a. So it's a jumping off point. Right. Like, the sense is that these collections might help inspire you, but you can still make it your own by using this feature that we have built in.
- [36:14]
Zofia Zvyglinska
Yeah, of course. I definitely see people looking for dupes through that. I know that there are a lot of previous kind of search engines where either people are looking for cost comparisons through list or else looking for other versions of an item because they can't afford something which is designer.
- [36:32]
Lisa Yamner Green
Yeah, I'm not going to. I wouldn't call them dupes. I would actually say that they're sort of less expensive versions. So, you know, we're not carrying. We're not carrying sort of like Amazon Marketplace type of brands. These are real brands who maybe have designed bags that are similar, but they're not dupes. So I just. Actually, I do. I think that's important to clear up. Like, it's a, you know, could be a very similar version, but they're not necessarily dupes in that way.
- [37:02]
Zofia Zvyglinska
Yeah, of course, I get that. And you mentioned something interesting before around kind of creators influences and the role they play in, I guess, AI styling and deciding what that kind of future of styling is going to be. You know, I think a lot of people do go to these search engines to look for practical picks, but also for inspirations. You know, I think 91% of Gen Z look to creators for the latest shopping trends. And I think that there's a big future for creators in this kind of shopping AI economy, especially when it comes to recommendations. So, you know, kind of focusing a little bit more on that business end. What does that look like in terms of the back end? Is there something around affiliate strategies that you are exploring and is that something that's going to be a bigger part of Daydream going forward?
- [37:50]
Lisa Yamner Green
Yes. Without giving away too much of the secret sauce, we do have really big visions for how we can incorporate stylists and real fashion authorities onto the platform and how we can really lean into the creator economy and use technology to actually create a product and a platform that is friendly for all three constituents. So meaning the brands, the creators and the customers.
- [38:17]
Zofia Zvyglinska
Yeah, of course. And in terms of the, I guess like the ideal customer or user, you know, there's a lot of apps which either skew younger or older, depending on the demographic that you're tailoring for. You know, with Daydream, who are you addressing? Either age group. You mentioned she. So are we also looking for men's items? 3daydream. Is there going to be more expansion in that area as well?
- [38:40]
Lisa Yamner Green
So she is, I guess, my preferred pronoun, but we do have men's and women's. There's a long history of everybody using he as the general pronoun. I think I've switched that one up. But yes, we already have men's and women's, and we have quite a rich assortment for both. Like any major launch, you can't launch to everyone. And while I actually believe we have a lot, you know, we have such a large set of brands and products already available that I think that we do appeal to a very, very wide audience already. However, we are certainly focusing on a woman who likes to shop. So, you know, we're sort of like, I think age is just a number, which might just be something I tell myself as I get older, but it really is, you know, it's more about the woman who is excited to shop, who enjoys, who is looking for something new, wants to add more to her closet, who likes accessories or who likes to, you know, add a bag or is, you know, somebody who likes to shop, who thinks about shopping, who's going to be a bit of an early adopter to a new technology. You know, who's kind of already has all of these shopping hacks that she's figured out how to shop online, but it kind of drives her nuts, right? Like, you get that sale, that notification from your favorite retailer that something's on sale, and you click in and you find that there are 15,000, 432 products on sale. And then you have to do your hacks, right? Then it's, you filter by your brand, then you filter by your sizes. Then you might sort low to high or high to low, depending on who you are and where you're shopping. And then your phone rings and you get a call and you go back and all your filters have disappeared and you have to do it all over again. When Daydream, you don't have to do that, right? Like, it's already sort of, it's already set up for you. So if you want to see everything that's on sale from your favorite brand, you're going to be able to do that. So, you know, it's. It's sort of. It's taking that person that already spends some time online shopping and trying to help them get to what they want just a little bit faster and with a little bit more fun.
- [40:41]
Zofia Zvyglinska
Yeah, of course. And you know, in your role in particular, that brand relationship is something that's really important here. You know, none of this would be possible without the brand partners that you've had on board. I think you've scaled to over 8,000 brands right now. So how do you, I guess, maintain that kind of curated editorial feel that distinguishes Daydream from maybe some more algorithmic feeds in working with these brands?
- [41:06]
Lisa Yamner Green
I think that's my favorite question you've asked so far, Sophia, so thank you. I keep that top of mind at all times. It was really, really important to us to be able to launch Daydream with a large catalog of brands so that we could really, truly create a personalized experience for each customer. If you have a small group of brands, it's much harder to personalize for everyone. Everybody has their own set. Like, even people who shop similarly and shop in similar stores, there's just different brands that they like and different products that they want. And so you really need a high number of brands in order to be able to create the personalized experience. But without personalization, it's just a massive dump of a whole bunch of brands and it's kind of useless, right? Like, then we're sort of getting Back to what I was talking about before with that like lack of catalog discernment. So the personalization element becomes really important so that we can help customers, you know, if they know, if they know that they love one brand, we obviously want to show them that brand. But then we want to be able to help them understand what might that mean for their style. What emerging designers might we be able to surface for them so they can find something new and different, something unique that they weren't necessarily exc ready to find. And I think, you know, most importantly for me, we're talking a lot about the customer experience. But the truth is we're not just a place to shop. We are a platform for brands. And we want it to be a place where brands can learn, where they can feel like AI is not scary, but rather accessible, where they can attract new audiences and find new customers, and where they can grow. And I think that that part is really important to us. And we've put a lot of thought into building Daydream in such a way where emerging designers can be discovered and hopefully start to really build a business.
- [42:56]
Zofia Zvyglinska
Yeah, of course. And you know, your roadmap also includes kind of social sharing collection remixes. So the brand kind of side of things is really important there as well. And it's a brave new world for them. How are brands prepar for that kind of shift in discovery as well and word of mouth influence? I'm sure that there's been some very frantic conversations around how people are discovering the brands. Are you also kind of educating them on what the best practices are there.
- [43:23]
Lisa Yamner Green
We are and we're kind of all learning together. And so our plan is to be gathering as much insights and data as possible and then to be putting it into a really digestible format to be able to share with our partners. And it is really the big part of what we want to do. We want to be their kind of shepherds in AI. We're creating a real community around fashion plus AI and we're really bringing the brands into that and allowing them to learn from us and become a real part of this whole process along with us.
- [43:58]
Zofia Zvyglinska
One of the most interesting, I think things, and I mentioned this earlier, but it's kind of mood based discovery or mood based search. What kind of unexpected prompt patterns have you seen either kind of emotionally driven descriptors or cultural references? What kind of prompts have you used yourself and how have you refined that search?
- [44:18]
Lisa Yamner Green
It's really fun because actually when customers first start using the product, they start a little slow. They're like, okay, I know I can ask for more than just a red dress. So maybe I'll ask for a long red dress with a ruffle. And then the next time they're like, I need a long red dress with a ruffle that I can wear to a wedding. And then the next time it's like, I just want a really cool dress that I can wear to a wedding, and I can show off, and I can, you know, and it's like. And it gets longer and longer and longer, and it's kind of fun to see how that happens. I'm very triggered by the weather, and so I actually find myself. It is a sad commentary on the spring that we had in New York. When you look at my chat history on Daydream, and it's basically like, what coat can I wear on a dreary day in New York City? And then it's like, when is it ever gonna stop raining? And should I be ordering a new coat with, you know, it's like, I really got into it, and it's funny to see. And now it's like, when. What do you wear in the blazing heat in New York City when you're trying to launch a company and you're all going to Times Square to get a viewing of your billboard that's about to launch? Like, these are the questions, and so it's fun. Daydream can get a little bit, you know, it's kind of friendly with the answers and will sort of, you know, doesn't leave you hanging. And make sure that I got a lot of sympathy for the rain from Daydream and also a lot of great coats. I ended up with an awesome oversized trench from Rue Sophie, which I'm really excited about, and even got to wear more than I thought I was going to, but it kept on raining, so good thing I had the coat.
- [45:52]
Zofia Zvyglinska
Yeah. Very different problems. I'm sure that we're going to have more of these kind of weather adjustments and problems as we go forward, but I think in terms of Daydream, I think that personality aspect, almost like that chat that knows you, that is able to relate to you, is a really kind of interesting feature with shopping. A lot of shopping searches are so emotionally driven. Do you see that you're going to kind of be pushing into that personality a little bit more? Obviously, Daydream's in beta right now, so I'm assuming there's going to be more developments and improvements over the next couple of months.
- [46:26]
Lisa Yamner Green
Oh, tons and tons of developments. I mean, what we've Launched for you is like, you know, it is the first version, it is the core product. It's really getting people using the search and then so much of our development is going to be informed by customer behavior. And that's the point of like getting this out there now. Right. Everybody says if you wait until it's perfect or until you feel ready then you've waited too long. And what we feel ready for is to really get that customer feedback and help make some of the. We have a very long roadmap and tons of ideas on the horizon. You mentioned virtual try on which is something we really want to push towards. You mentioned a lot more inclusion of creators and sort of helping drive the tastemaker side of shopping for fashion. And then yeah, this sort of point of what do customers respond to, what do they need from this agent? And I think that's one of those things that will really be watching and learning from over time.
- [47:27]
Zofia Zvyglinska
Yeah, AI only gets better if there's human interaction involved. And final question, I think that this is a very futuristic but at the same time very practical technology. There's a lot of things going on with AI strategies. Let's say looking at 2030, what do you think the future of search is going to look like if all of these platforms work out the way they do?
- [47:50]
Lisa Yamner Green
Oh my goodness, I don't know. I mean what I think is, I think the magic of this and rather than the future of search, I think what I see more importantly is the future of E commerce. I think looks nothing like the past of E commerce. I think we have spent a lot of time shopping in a very, very linear way and feeling sort of very like boxed in, no pun intended or maybe pun intended by the like boxes and grids on these websites. I don't think that that's the future. I think that there is just a lot of this, this ability to really shop somewhere that knows you, that helps you, that doesn't just find you that one top but is helping you outfit that helps you, you know, like that really becomes that personal stylist, you know the sort of so and that's for fashion. But I think like beyond that we're going to see a lot of that like taste based shopping evolving into a format that takes the work off of the customer and allows shopping to be fun again, hopefully to be social and efficient and also maybe removing a lot of that returns problem and the overall waste that we see so much of happening in all of online shopping. So I think the future is very bright. I think the future is much more efficient. And I actually think ultimately the future sees us using our phones and our screens less because we're able to get to what we want in a much faster and more efficient way.
- [49:29]
Zofia Zvyglinska
Yeah, definitely. Hopefully that shopping journey will be shorter and there won't be any more trawling through major e commerce sites. Just like one the of one page after another, right?
- [49:39]
Lisa Yamner Green
No more tabs.
- [49:42]
Zofia Zvyglinska
Exactly. Well, thank you so much, Lisa. It was such a pleasure sharing Daydream and kind of what you're working on right now. And very, very lovely to have you on the glossy podcast. Thank you so much.
- [49:53]
Lisa Yamner Green
Thank you.
- [49:54]
Jill Manoff
Thanks.
- [49:54]
Lisa Yamner Green
I really enjoyed it.
- [50:00]
Zofia Zvyglinska
And that's all the time that we have this week. Don't forget to give us a rating, rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you're listening to this. It really helps us out a lot. Thanks for listening.