← The Glossy Podcast
The Glossy Podcast
Saks Global, Inditex's fast fashion play, Richemont's success — and golf fashion with Malbon's founders
00:49:03
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- [00:02]
Danny Parisi
Brands care about two things in media. One they love, the other they hate. Growth moves brands forward. Waste holds them back. Tenuity is an agency built for marketers who demand growth and accountability. Their powerful technology hunts down waste, the biggest growth killer of all, enabling their brilliant people to create growth for brands that defines the category. Tenuity, Love growth, Hate waste. Find out what your media is really doing @lovegrowth. Hate waste.com hello, and welcome back to the Glossy Podcast. I'm your host, senior fashion reporter Danny Parisi, and I am here with our international reporter, Zofia Zviglinska. Hello, Sophia, how are you?
- [00:53]
Zofia Zviglinska
Yeah, good. Back from holiday and ready to podcast. Really excited to be here.
- [00:59]
Danny Parisi
Well, it's always, it's always nice to have you on the Glossy Podcast. We have a lot of fun stuff we're going to talk about. I want to do a check in on Sax Global. It's been about seven or eight months since their acquisition of Neiman Marcus, and there's been a lot of ups and downs since then. So we'll check in on how things are going there. I want to talk about Inditex, which is the owner of Zara, expanding one of their brands, one of their very cheap, very fast fashion kind of brands. And we'll talk about its comparison with Shein and some of the others. And then lastly, I just want to touch on some of Richemont's earnings from this week, particularly around jewelry and what markets are kind of doing well, because I think it's a good window into what's happening in luxury. Later in the episode, I recorded a conversation with Stephen and Erica Malbin, who are the co founders of Malben Golf. We've talked a lot on this podcast and we've written a lot about the crossover between sports and fashion. There's lots of interesting fashion stuff happening in basketball, in Formula one, in tennis. There's also a lot of interesting stuff happening in golf. And I think Malbourne's kind of at the forefront of that. So I had a great conversation with them about how they're kind of pushing the boundaries in golf attire and what's fashionable in golf. It was a great conversation. Later in the episode, you can hear that. But let's start with talking about Saks Global. Like I said, it's been about eight months since they merged with Neiman Marcus. At the time, I think Saks had a lot of problems. Their sales were kind of struggling. They were struggling to pay their vendors, which we've talked about many times and caused a lot of issues for them. But I think there was this feeling of if we can just get through this merger, then we can solve all those problems once the deal is done. Now the deal is done and it feels like a lot of those problems are still floating around. There's been a lot of concerns about Saks's financial status, about their continued ability to pay to pay their vendors, but also their ability to pay back lenders as well. It just feels like there's been a lot of ups and downs. This month Bloomberg reported that sales at Saks fell by about 16%. Things are not flourishing after the merger the way they hoped. At the same time, some of their biggest competitors like Nordstrom and Bloomingdales have seen their sales go up. So it's not really a good situation for Saks at the moment. What do you think about what's been going on in the last eight months? Sophia?
- [03:20]
Zofia Zviglinska
Yeah, I mean, I think you mentioned some really good points around the kind of debt that Saks carries. I think that as of, I don't know, I think it was like last year it was quite a big one. They secured obviously a bond debt which is due in 2029 and I think something of like 2.2 billion. So it's not something small, but essentially like while taking on all of those brands, they also increased I think the bonds debt amount. So obviously that's something that is weighing down on, you know, on the brand and I guess the other brands too. But I think the bigger question here is just asking, you know, what is the future of department stores and like what does that look like with stock with Saks Fifth Avenue, with Bergdorf, with Neiman's, how do all of these department stores, what's their proposition difference and is it enough, I guess to make it an attractive offering when luxury is kind of already suffering a lot? These department stores kind of rely on luxury brands to bring in their most sales. And I think that department stores in particular have struggled with the kind of innovation side of things as customers change their habits change, the shopping patterns change. And it's bad enough, I think, when luxury customers are now turning to personal shoppers or online services or other things instead of heading to a department store and having their own personal shopper there. But yeah, I think it's a bit of an issue and I think that anyone else is most likely priced out of some of the assortment there. So I think there's probably going to be more lower end offerings that some of these department stores will be bringing in. But I don't know again, how successful that will be. And what brands will be part of that.
- [05:07]
Danny Parisi
Yeah, I think you make a bunch of good points. I want to come back to the prospect of luxury buyers pricing down or going to other options. Later when we talk about Richemont, we'll talk about that again. I think you make a good point about Saks has a ton of debt. They have had a liquidity problem for a while that's well known. They've had their credit rating downgraded a few times. They've also just recently secured another $600 million in funding. And it's kind of one of those things where it's like $600 million in cash now is great when you need to pay people back and stuff like that, but it's also just more debt kind of long term. So I think a couple of months ago I had Jill on the podcast and we were talking about this exact same concept and I think we described it as feeling a little bit like a house of cards. Like it's just like barely being held together at the moment. Then also at the same time, like you said, there's many other department stores that either their sales are going up or at least they're just not floundering in the same way. Nordstrom is in the middle of going private. And I think the data that is out there about them and about their sales has shown like Nordstrom Rack, their lower price outlet, has been doing super well. They've opened new stores and everything. It definitely feels like unsettled time for department stores. And the Saks and Nieman deal has kind of been chaotic throughout the whole lead up and now almost a year after.
- [06:40]
Zofia Zviglinska
Yeah, and I think the other thing is that kind of ecom competition thing. Saks did have that announcement with Amazon obviously around the kind of luxury stores offering from April, and I don't know how well that's going, but it kind of is supposed to replicate almost that lux experience online. So you've got no dynamic pricing or ratings or feeds. It's very traditional department store sales and obviously Saks handles the inventory and the fulfillment and then Amazon kind of handles everything else. And I don't know how successful that's been or if anyone's actually bought anything off it, but they had a big campaign around it and I'm wondering if that's something that they're going to be turning to more now just because that retail side of things maybe isn't working quite as well and they're still quite spread out over the last couple of years. I know that they closed a bunch of Neiman stores, some of the Saks stores as well, just to kind of consolidate and make that retail offering a bit better. So, yeah, I'm wondering how they're going to kind of divide it up between those two.
- [07:46]
Danny Parisi
Yeah. And then one more thing or two more things I want to say quickly. Also this week, Saks hired a new cfo, Brandy Richardson, formerly of Tailored Brands. I do not envy her that job because it seems like a high stakes time to be in charge of the finances for that company at the moment. The other quick thing I just wanted to say was the New York Times had an article a week or two ago that led with an anecdote about a small brand. And the founder said her relationship with Saks over her lost payments was kind of irreparably damaged. And she was like, there's nothing they could say that would convince me to sell with them again. I think if you're a big brand and you just, you have a bunch of distribution channels and stuff, maybe you still throw Saks in the mix or something. But I've heard from many, many brands that the lack of payment and kind of the almost like disregard for their concern about not being paid has like really damaged their reputation. So I don't know, I feel like there's probably many brands with that same kind of mindset of I'm so turned off by this experience of working with them that I'm not going to in the future. Let's move on to our next topic. So I want to talk about Inditex, the owner of Zara Spanish company. They announced this week that they are expanding one of their brands, Lefties. If you're like me, you're wondering what the hell is Lefties. I had never heard of Lefties before, but that's because it doesn't operate in a lot of the major markets that like Zara and other brands like that does. It's in a handful of markets in Europe like Spain and Portugal, a couple of Latin American countries like Mexico, and then a bunch of Middle Eastern countries like Oman and Qatar and UAE and stuff. But it's basically one of it's very, very low price. It's like, I don't know, ten bucks for a dress or something. I've seen some of the lowest prices. Were you aware of Lefties before? I had literally never heard of it before this week.
- [09:43]
Zofia Zviglinska
No, neither. I think I'm too UK focused, it seems, I think something that is definitely more in the kind of Latin speaking countries. So I think that there's A lot more there and again in the Middle East. It's probably bigger as well. My time in France did not include Lefties as a store, so I'm not aware of it either.
- [10:04]
Danny Parisi
So I'm glad you mentioned France because the news this week is lefties used to operate in France and hasn't since the mid 2000s. But Zara said they're going to start expanding Lefties into new markets, starting with France. So lefties will be back in operation in France. It seems very obviously meant to kind of combat some of the ultra low price brands that we talked about very frequently on this podcast, like Shein, but also other kind of Shein competitors like Amazon Haul. These things that are like super dirt cheap and just are about like high volume. Very, very low price. Yeah, it feels very obviously meant to compete with like a Shein or a Temu or those kinds of brands. So what's your take on that?
- [10:48]
Zofia Zviglinska
Yeah, I mean, I think it's really interesting that they're doing it through like a retail first approach. So obviously expanding with retail locations. That's one area that I think Shein has not done as well. In the few times that I have seen them do like pop up stores in like London, they haven't been like as popular long term. I think that people like to see the offerings. So there was obviously a queue outside on the first day, but I think after that it just kind of wanes in like popularity. And you always have like a lot of competition on some of the main shopping streets too. So that was, I think a very interesting way to approach it is just like focusing on retail and I'm assuming also probably focusing on a younger consumer. I don't know how much Shein is doing right now in Europe in terms of sales, but I would assume that there's a couple of brands, especially in Spain and kind of that market where Inditex dominates rather than Shein just because of how well known it is in the market. And obviously Inditex is also kind of Spanish, so that does play a role.
- [11:56]
Danny Parisi
Yeah. And do you think so we're going to talk more about Shein in a future episode pretty soon, but do you think there is much room for, for brands to compete with Shein or do you feel like they have real global dominance in, in this like price category of like super cheap clothes? Because it feels like a lot of brands want to compete with Shein, but Amazon Haul came out. I haven't seen any numbers, but I feel like it hasn't made much of a splash like Just I should see if there's any, like actual figures out there. But it kind of feels like it just came out and went into the ether. I don't know. Do you feel like there is a possibility for any non Shein company to kind of unseat them?
- [12:38]
Zofia Zviglinska
Yeah, I mean, I think so, just because of the fact that Shein was majorly affected by any kind of tariff impacts. And while that is mostly focused on the us it does end up affecting pricing in other markets as well, as well as kind of delivery times and things like that have always been quite extensive for brands or companies like Shein, you know, because Inditex so still manages most of its inventory out of Spain. And I think that a lot of stuff still goes through that way. It is easier, I guess, distribution for them than it would be for Shein that still has to ship things in from China or other areas of Asia. Obviously, Shein has also expanded its distribution to manage that. I think they've had some new locations for manufacturing in Mexico as well as other areas of Europe. But I do think that Inditex is still slightly more well known. And obviously, even though Lefties as a brand might not be well known in other countries, I think it still has more potential just because Inditex is probably more trusted, even though, you know, not every single brand under there is considered quality. I think right now, when people are still considering cost of living as like a big factor, this might be, you know, a good place to get basics. For example, like anything that you might want to get on Shein, but then the delivery time is too long. You'd want to end up going to Lefties just because it's quicker and cheaper to get it on your local high street.
- [14:05]
Danny Parisi
Yeah, maybe we'll all be shopping lefties soon. I don't know. But yeah. Let's move on to our last topic. I want to just spend a few minutes talking about Richemont, which reported their earnings this week. Their first quarter earnings, I think total sales were up 6%, which a lot of luxury analysts I saw were quite happy about, since there's been kind of nothing but disappointing news from big luxury groups for a while. In particular, I want to talk about how jewelry, obviously a huge part of Richemont's business and had even better kind of performance than their other categories. Their sales were up 11% across jewelry, which I think speaks to two things. One, like Richemont is very kind of a prominent player in fine luxury jewelry. They own Cartier and Van Cleef and Arpels A lot of these big brands and also the fact that hard luxury jewelry is just doing well. It's just like a good category to be in compared to fashion or leather goods, which I think has been having a much harder time in terms of this downturn that we've seen throughout 2025.
- [15:13]
Zofia Zviglinska
Yeah, definitely. I think the jewelry kind of area for them has been particularly stable. And I don't know obviously if it's just the economic downturn again, kind of makes people invest in pieces that they think are going to last them a long time. But typically jewellery does have a bit more staying power. It might make a little bit more sense to buy into that rather than a fashion brand. But I think for them it's just how strong those brands are. You know, both Cartier and Van Cleef are very kind of notable brands and they're also popular in some of the other markets where Richemont did very well, like the stock time around. So I think a lot of that was in the Middle east especially and both of those brands do very well over there.
- [15:53]
Danny Parisi
Also notable within jewelry though, that Richemont's sales from their high end watchmakers was down 7%. I think there is an interesting thing happening right now in luxury Swiss watches where exports are down. I think they were down 25% in May. There's a lot of watches that are kind of already out there. I just wrote a story this week about tudor, which is Rolex's kind of lower priced sister brand, doing really well. And I think it's because people, and now we can get into luxury consumers sort of trending down a little bit. But I think it's because everyone is affected by things like tariffs and inflation. Even if you are super wealthy, you still don't want to be paying more than you used to be. And Richemont, actually their CEO earlier this year said that they've really resisted the urge to raise prices, to raise prices drastically. I think they have raised them a little bit, but so many other big luxury players are just rampantly raising prices because they want to keep their margins and they want to cater to their super wealthy customers. Richemont hasn't done that and I do wonder if there's a correlation between that and their performance this quarter. Being a real standout in the luxury sector, I should say. Lvmh, I think is also reporting earnings pretty soon in the next week or two. We will have a more direct point of comparison soon. But I'm just speculating that maybe the resistance to raising prices a lot may have helped a little bit.
- [17:30]
Zofia Zviglinska
Yeah, I think so too. From what I know, Richemont's raised about 3% to 5%, which isn't a significant kind of raise, but I guess. I guess equivalent to the gold pricing increase, which was quite significant earlier this year because of the tariff impacts as well as kind of other trade disputes. But I think the other thing that is important to know for each one is that they're doing particularly well across Omnichannel, so both wholesale and retail and online. I think that managing, I guess the brand presence across all of those three seems to be going very well for them. They're not over prioritizing in one area. And as a result, I think they're more. Seeing more online and wholesale wholesale sales, for example, which maybe some of the other luxury brands have been focusing a little bit more on mono retail and slightly less on wholesale. So again, having a balanced approach and focusing on jewelry as a stable market, maybe that's also helped them this time around.
- [18:27]
Danny Parisi
Yeah. And one more quick thing I want to call out from their earnings was a 7% decline in sales in China and Hong Kong and Macau. I think the decline of, or at least the kind of slowing down of the China luxury market has been a huge thing for a lot of luxury brands. They put so much effort and resources into investing in their China business in the last couple of years. And I don't necessarily think it was a bad idea or anything, but when there is a. It's because it's such a huge market. When there is a slowdown, you know, it hurts. I think a lot of luxury brands are feeling the. The fact that Chinese shoppers are just kind of like cutting back on their luxury spending, which they kind of went into the China market because those customers were spending very freely the last couple of years. Just a notable thing to point out, especially compared to the growth they've had in Europe and the Americas. I think they had growth of 17% in the Americas and 11% in Europe compared to China. It does feel like there's a little bit of a shift in terms of what markets are most appealing at the moment.
- [19:32]
Zofia Zviglinska
Definitely. And obviously coupling that on the Chinese front, at least with the kind of wealth flaunting that was discouraged earlier this year. I think that a lot of luxury brands are seeing that their typical customers might be pulling back in terms of the amount of spend. And also there's been a bigger kind of growth on focusing on local brands in China as well, as I think the industries are starting to shift their reliance on those international ones, and that also includes fashion and luxury brands. So I'm assuming that that's something that's going to continue, which means luxury brands need to rely on that market even less. Yeah.
- [20:10]
Danny Parisi
Well, thank you, Zofia, for being here. I think we should wrap up our week in review portion of the episode. Like I said at the top of the episode, stick around. We're gonna take a short break, and when we're back, I had a great conversation with the founders of Malbourne Golf. We're gonna talk about golf, fashion. Golf, fashion. We're gonna talk about a golfer who they dressed for a tournament, and the tournament decided his outfit was too stylish, too. It was too distracting. We talked about whether that was a good thing for them or not. It was a great conversation. I really enjoyed talking to both of them. So stick around for that. And thanks for listening. You already know how beauty lovers treat their favorite products. They cut open the tube, scrape the last bit of blush, and make every drop count. So why waste your media? Tinuity helps beauty brands eliminate waste and scale what works. Media and measurement live under one roof so you can see what's working, what's wasting. Budget and where to go next. Love growth, hate waste. Waste is the biggest growth killer of all. It hides in bloated budgets, broken attribution, and vague assumptions. Tinuity doesn't tolerate it. Instead, they track it down, expose it, and eliminate it. Because every wasted dollar is growth that never had a chance. Don't let your media go to waste. Visit lovegrowth hatewaste.com okay, well, I'm sitting here with our guests for this week, Steven and Erica Malbin, who you may know as the co founders of the stylish, some might say irreverent golf apparel brand. Malbin, who. I was just saying, Steven and Erica, we. I've been wanting to do a golf episode for a while. Golf and fashion. Sports and fashion are both big topics for our readers and our listeners, and you guys were top of our list of people we wanted to talk to. So thank you both for being here.
- [22:09]
Erica Malbin
Thank you for having us. We're happy to be here.
- [22:11]
Steven Malbin
Yes. Thank you very much. Excited?
- [22:14]
Danny Parisi
Yeah. It's a pleasure to talk with you both. Like I said, we've covered quite a bit on glossy, the crossover between sports and fashion, but golf in particular, I feel like there's tons of growth there and a lot of interesting opportunity. Can you just tell us a little bit about the origin of the brand? I think you both have a little bit of a background in culture and Fashion. And how did Malbourne get started?
- [22:34]
Steven Malbin
I grew up playing golf and got decent at golf when I was around 12, and then around 15 or 16 stopped playing because it was kind of the opposite of cool and fun. And everything my friends wanted to do was not golf. So I kind of abandoned it, move to New York or Atlanta to New York, and have been addicted to golf multiple times in my life. But the last time was I was around 33 ish, living in Los Angeles, and Erica and I were together and married and had a young son, at least one, maybe two. At that point, I started really questioning, like, why do people stop golfing from the time they're 16 till the time they're 35, which is historically like, what happens? And just started thinking about, like, what could be done to potentially keep our kids interested in the game through that big, you know, 20, 30 year gap that a lot of people take in golf. Erica is very supportive and wonderful wife and is. I started an Instagram that was like a mood board. So it would go from like traditional, wonderful, historical golf stuff mixed with like creative and a little more futuristic golf feelings and movement. And from there, Erica was like, you know, the Instagram's obviously taking on. There's a lot of people who think like, you know, you or we do. And every time Erica would take me to go shopping at a golf store, we wouldn't buy anything because it wasn't for us. And from there, Erica was like, I think we should, you know, your passion, you're very passionate about it. And maybe we should look into trying to form some form of a business or a life where we're more in the golf world. Does that sound accurate, Erica?
- [24:29]
Erica Malbin
Yeah, it does. So I had a different history with the sport. My dad was a big golfer, so I was always around it my whole life, definitely from a recreational standpoint. And I saw how much passion my father had for the game, and then I saw how much passion my husband had for the game. And being as that, we both had backgrounds in different creative sectors. Steven had had an ad agency and a magazine that he had published. And I started a spot chain. And we both were very entrepreneurial, but not specifically in the golf space. But because of Steven's passion for the game and his friendships and the people that he played with, we felt like, wow, there's this opportunity to create a brand that's speaks to those people where they feel like themselves when they're golfing from an apparel standpoint. And so we said, you know, there's something to be done Here, and we decided to venture into the golf apparel space.
- [25:24]
Danny Parisi
So interesting. You mentioned kind of the age demographic of golf and when people are into it and out of it. My outsider perspective as someone who's not hugely into the golf world, is that it has a little bit of a reputation as an older, skewing sport or a little more exclusive. Exclusive, at least compared to, say, a sport you could just go play in the park, like basketball or something. Requires a special place, special equipment, and I think has a, you know, a traditional association with maybe country club kind of vibes or something. And one of the things I think is so notable visually about Melbourne is kind of a youthful fashion forward. Some call it sort of a streetwear kind of edge to it. What's your take on kind of the state of golf fashion and aesthetically and then also the age demographic? Do you. Do you feel like there's room for kind of a younger or at least spiritually younger take on golf? Yeah, definitely.
- [26:19]
Steven Malbin
I think that it's really easy to get younger people to play golf when your parents tell you what to do. But the challenge is, how do you get people that are young to keep playing through their 20s and their 30s, not just playing when they're teenagers, and then abandon it and going back when they're, like, you know, 40 years old, which I think that's what happens a lot. And then obviously, you know, young people care about fashion, and they care about fits and looks and feeling good and being with their friends and dressing. And so fashion is a very easy way to get younger people to pay attention to a sport that historically has been quite. It's. It's goth's a weird thing. It's like, it's very intimidating if you've never done it before, because there's all types of rules, there's all types of, you know, traditions, and there's things that are a bit overwhelming to people when they think about putting themselves in that country club or in that environment. So basically, we've. We've kind of come together and built this brand and this community that we're, like, celebrating individuality and, like, you can be yourself and you can love music, art, and fashion, and you can be really good at golf. Like, that's okay. That's totally okay. And you can be respectful to the history of the game and you can love the traditions and the history and love and understand why you take your hat off when you go into a country club or why you dress up a certain way. And golf back in the day was very, very fashion Focused. It was like knickers and like cashmeres and sweaters and just really beautiful, thoughtful gentleman type of dress. When people would go play golf back in Scotland, back in the, even into America, when It was the PGA Tour was getting going back in the 80s and stuff, it was very like Dockers pleated pants and like, you know, dressing up like Sunday best type of thing. Because the tradition of the location, you know, kind of pushed people in that direction, which was, which was lovely. And then something happened in golf where it all went to like performance and dry fit and Nike and Adidas and Under Armour and it turned into this like gym wear on the course, which was like not very appealing to a lot of bodies, the way the clothes fit, you know, especially men and women even had a worse situation. It was like there was very few options of what she could wear stylish on the golf course. That was still performance, but fashion at the same time. And so the cool thing is, is that like one of the positive things that came out of COVID was I think there's like 10 million new golfers in America who started golfing during COVID And so they skipped all of the traditions and the anxiety and the like, I don't know if I belong and I don't know if I'm there. It was just like, well, I've never golfed, but like, it looks fun and I can dress up and I can have fun and have a drink and play music and hang with my friends and do something healthy, both physically and mental health wise. Being on a golf course is, is a great experience. So I think, yeah, there's a gap of age where people have historically stopped, but you know, everyone looks up to someone. So like, if my 14 year old son is golfing and I'm nervous about him stopping playing golf in two years, but he looks up to Steph Curry and you know, Eric Coston and Schoolboy Q and all of these different, like iconic, you know, pop cultural figures. And if they're playing golf, then he's gonna be like, no, golf is cool. Like, I'm not gonna stop playing golf. Like the coolest people I know are actually obsess golf. So I think that's been a lot of it that's happened as well where like, you know, there's tons of entertainers and musicians and there's, there's, you know, artists and designers all playing golf and not only playing it, they're like proud to be playing it now. Where when I lived in New York and did, you know, every like Subculturally, like music, art, and fashion and design and all of that stuff. When I was doing that, I was almost embarrassed to be a golfer because historically, golf is like, the most opposite thing on earth from, like, punk rock. Like, you can't get more opposite than punk rock as golf. And now I think what we've been doing together is just basically, you know, making it okay. Like, saying it's okay if you like something that's totally opposite of golf, but you also like to golf.
- [30:55]
Danny Parisi
Yeah, yeah. And I'm glad you. You bring this up, because, like you said, there's tons of entertainers who are into golf. I know Justin Bieber is a big golfer and a fan of Melbourne. There's tons of NBA players. There's musicians. And I think that does add a lot. And you guys work with some very popular golfers. I wanted to ask about a couple of them. You work with Jason Day. You work with Minji Lee, who just won the women's PGA Tour. So you guys have these partnerships, and these people also have. They're young, and they have big followings. I think Jason Day has 700,000 followers on Instagram or something. So it also feels like there are, in addition to people outside of golf who are already popular with maybe a younger crowd who are also into golf, there's also golfers who now have a big audience, who I think also probably are skewing pretty young. So could you tell me a little bit about how you work with the athletes in terms of, you know, approaching them, finding the right person who you feel like is a fit for the brand, what the relationship is like?
- [31:52]
Erica Malbin
Yeah, I would say that. Like, so when we started the brand in 2017, like, golf was on a decline. You know, the people. The amount of people that were playing the industry, it was very much, like, in a bad place in terms of growing into the future. And we did see that, like, obviously, there is this opportunity to build a community, appeal to younger people. And how do we do that is through fashion. And then obviously, like, the intersection between sport and fashion at this point, I think is better now and greater and more eyeballs are paying attention to that than ever before, whether that be basketball, football, tennis, golf. I mean, these are figures that, you know, make such an impact on the people that are their fans and the people that follow them. And so, you know, because Steve and I have, you know, we consider Malbourne a family business. We started it together. And although our team has grown significantly, we still make decisions between ourselves and with our team. And it's very much about who we believe can represent our brand on the world stage and through a professional sports angle. And so when we look to people like Jason or Minji or Charlie hall, like some of our larger, more well known athletes, it's really about how do they represent the sport and how do they wear the product and, and how willing are they to be a part of our greater mission, which is to inspire young people to participate in the game of golf. And so I think that's really how we take the consideration and have these conversations. And obviously from an economic standpoint, it's like a lot of them have had. Had deals with bigger players, but are at a different point in their careers where they want to make a difference or they're, you know, excited about working with a younger brand that has, you know, a little more ability to do more, push the, push the envelope in more interesting ways than some of the bigger players. And I think that's really important because it's really, truly a partnership between us and the players and how willing they are again, to wear the clothes confidently and, you know, make it known that that's. That they're part of the Maubin family.
- [34:07]
Danny Parisi
Yeah, it seems like very mutually beneficial, especially like you said, if there's an athlete who maybe wants to associate themselves with a little more daring kind of brand. And on that note, I have to ask you about Jason Day's vest from last year. I know you've talked about it before, but for the listeners who don't know about this, he wore, I thought, very cool Malbourne sweater vest with a bold kind of print, meaning text like logo on the front. And he said that he was asked by the tournament to take it off because it was too distracting. I don't know if they said that explicitly. Was that the best thing ever for you? This is the sweater the tournament doesn't want you to wear. Cause it's too edgy. I mean, I don't know. Did you lean into that? Was that. I feel like it does fit a little bit with just the vibe of Malbin being pushing the envelope like you said. But I don't know. How did you react to that, that moment and what Jason Day said about it?
- [35:00]
Steven Malbin
If we tried to make that happen, we would have failed at trying to make such a thing happen. It was just the vest that was in our spring summer line. Jason's really interesting because he's been number one in the world. He's won tons of time. He's a household name in golf. He's one of the sweetest nicest humans we've ever met and consider a friend. We're friends with his whole family. But Jason understands that, you know, he's been out there like 17 years on tour, right? He went, he turned into a professional golfer when he was like 17 or 18 years old. And he's like 36 now or something. So he's been doing it a really long time. And he, it's, it's funny, it's like there's like the traditional old guard of the sport and then there's like the new wave of, you know, creative golfers that are happening, et cetera. And Jason has a 14 year old son, Dash. So basically, like when we show stuff to Jason, he's like, hold on one sec. And then he like, will bring me right back and be like, dash loves it. It's our job to condition and push the envelope a bit. And if we're only trying to design stuff and dress our players and stuff, that the old guard or the traditional golfers are going to say, like, oh, that's very normal and it's very much what I'm used to, then we're not really pushing the envelope too much. So he's concerned with what his teenage kids and their friends think about what he's wearing than the, you know, 65 year old members of Augusta who were like, you know, could you please, do you mind taking that off? And I think the media blew everything out of proportion a bit. Like, it's similar like if you, if I came to your house for dinner and you were like, hey, do you mind taking your shoes off before you come in the house? I'd say, yeah, no problem. And like, we'd never talk about it again. So in essence, it wasn't really much more than that. It was. A lot of people were talking about what he was wearing. They didn't feel comfortable and they just said, Mr. Day, do you mind taking that vest off? And he goes, yeah, no problem, mate. And he took off the vest and that was it. So it's their house, it's their rules. It's not really that big of a deal. But again, it's like, it's conditioning. So, like, at first people of the traditionalists were like, I hate the way he's dressing. And now it's like, wow, he actually looks, he looks pretty good, you know, and he hasn't really changed or we haven't really changed what we're doing. It's just people are getting more comfortable with it. Yeah. Like, going back to what Eric was saying, I Think it's all about, like, we know that every player on the PGA Tour, the LPGA Tour, like, we're sure that they're really good at golf. That's for sure. And with golf comes highs and lows. Sometimes you play good, sometimes you play bad. So we've really focused in on, like, trying to partner with really good humans because we figure that's something that will stay more consistent than if, like, you make your putts one day and you don't make your putts the next day. Like, that's kind of hard to, like, hang your hat on. Like, he's really good at golf because, like, there's only been one Tiger woods that was really good for, like, 15 years straight. A lot of the other people, they're. They're, you know, world number one one year, and they go down to, like, 70th in the world two years later. So it's very hard to stay consistently great at golf. But I think Charlie and Minji and Natalia and Jason and Jesper Parnevic, they're like, really great people. And that, you know, that won't change as easily as playing good or playing bad. It's such a wild game of golf.
- [38:38]
Danny Parisi
Also, he had, you know. Well, first off, it's funny that he's getting the dash seal of approval on all the looks. That's probably a. A good way to stay youthful. But also, at the US Open this month, he also had another Malbin look that I thought was very bold with the American flag shorts, which I thought was very cool. Again, kind of bold and pushing the envelope a little bit. But like you said, you couldn't engineer that. And I know you guys didn't go into it trying to make something disruptive or anything. And you mentioned Minji. I also wanted to ask. I was doing some research beforehand and looking at just demographics around golf, and there's a figure from the National Golf foundation that said more than one quarter of on course golfer population in the US Is women as of this year, which I think is the first time it's been over a quarter, and I think the highest it's ever been before was like 20% or something. So there's been a. Certainly feels like growth of the sport in general, but particularly a lot more women on the course also watching golf. And you guys also have women's wear as well, so. And you're working with some fantastic women's golfers. I don't know. Erica, can you tell me a little bit about kind of how you're approaching that side of the business, definitely.
- [39:47]
Erica Malbin
So when we started again, we knew there was a huge mountain to climb in terms of just even tackling men at that point. And so we started with men's because we felt like there was such a gap in just what men were wearing on the course. And then what we quickly found was that women were rapidly growing in the sport and rapidly wanting product that spoke to them. So if men's was behind in terms of fashion for apparel, women's was light years behind that. And so, you know, there was a huge opportunity to cater to a woman demographic and make them something that they want to wear and they feel good about themselves in. And, you know, I think Maubin is a great brand because we obviously have these pro players, but, like, at the end of the day, like, 90, 90%, 95% of golfers are recreational players, and we want them to feel, like, excited about the sport. And, you know, it's about having fun. It's about getting together with people. It's about, you know, it's family friendly. It's, you know, it's more recreation than it is professional. And obviously, people look at the professionals because they're elite at what they do. But. But I think Melbourne was always founded on the fact that, like, golf is about just, you know, being yourself, having fun, and bringing in players that people can relate to and, like, who can be themselves. And so whether it be Minji, who, you know, she's one of, obviously one of the best female golfers in the world, and she wears the clothes so well, and people look to her because she is, like, youthful and young and has a great energy and is really good at what she does, or if it's Charlie, who, you know, unapologetically is herself, and she makes that, you know, very well known on the course by, you know, just being who she is and not kind of changing that because of what society expects of her, what, you know, a traditional golfer is supposed to look like. And I think that is really what Malbourne represents, is that, like, you can be a lot of different things, but you can also be a golfer. And I think Steve and I really, like, keep that close to our heart. When we put out product, when we do our activations, when we put anything forward with the brand. It's like, you know, golf is a big part of our lives, and it's really been such a pivotal point of, you know, our. Our family life, our children, and our business. And we can exist in two categories. You don't just have to be a golfer. You can be A golfer and something else. And I think what other brands historically have done is really just focus mainly on just the performance aspect of golf and the professional aspect of golf and not really just the community and the fun parts about it.
- [42:18]
Steven Malbin
One thing I would just add quickly is that it's interesting that as women golf grows, the women are much more stylish and down to, like, trying new things and look, you know, look put together. And so, like, the women, all of the women that are starting to golf are who used to not care what their, you know, husband or boyfriend wore golfing, now that they're golfing together, that the women are almost like, styling their. Their significant other. So it's like, well, if you were going on a trip with your golf guys, like, I don't care what you wear, but if you're playing with me, I'm going in your closet, and, like, I'm gonna put looks together for you that make my look, you know, shine as well. And so there's amazing how the influx of women in golf is actually making the men more stylish just from the taste level. And, like, what's thought of is what looks good to a woman versus what looks good, just a random man who's playing with nine of his golf friends.
- [43:21]
Danny Parisi
Last thing I want to ask you guys before we wrap up. So obviously, we've been talking about how you guys have a little bit bolder take on the traditional golf attire. And I think you're right, Stephen, that golf. My outsider perspective on golf on course attire is that it's been a lot of Under Armour, polos, performance gear. But I have been talking a little bit to some other brands in this space, and it does feel like there's, you know, Malbol's not the only brand that's kind of, like, thinking about bringing a little more fashion kind of feel to the course. I've talked to Jay Linderberg recently, who was telling me about, you know, they're putting emphasis on, like, the tunnel fit moment, kind of like they have in the NBA of what the players are wearing when they show up. So I wanted to just get your final thoughts on. Do you see more golf brands kind of going down this path now that, you know, we've got you guys and some others kind of kind of blazing a trail a little bit? Do you feel like there might be a move away from that kind of generic performance apparel and into more bold looks on the course or just in the, you know, floating around in the golf world?
- [44:24]
Steven Malbin
I would think so. You know, I think both it's, it's. I think what we're doing is pushing two sided, like a double sided sword. So in one, there's a lot of young brands that are, you know, if we have tour players and Minji Lee wearing our stuff, winning majors and Jason Day, and we have gone that far and being able to take like what started, started as a small golf brand on Fairfax and Melrose in la to be now an international brand and, you know, having some of the biggest players in the world wearing it, yet still like owning the whole lifestyle and who we are side of it, that's making younger brands that are like, wow, we can do this too. And then it's also making the bigger brands look at us and be like, we have to do what they're doing too. Like, golf's the lifestyle. Golf's not only, like Eric said, just performance. It's like everything we do in our family is we do a lot of stuff and it kind of follows with a and golf. So like today I'm gonna do these five things, but I'm also gonna golf a little. It's not like my life is only golf. It's, it's an and golf more than a, you know, only golf. So I think there's the big brands, historical golf outfitters from the Tour, et cetera, are definitely leaning into that direction. And I think, you know, in order to create a movement, you need lots of people to kind of get behind it. And so we're really excited that a lot of other people are starting to kind of think the way we've been thinking. And it's, it's. I think it's the first thing I always ask when I see something. It's like, is this good for golf? You know, is that good to keep Remington, my 14 year old, in the game? And it's like, yeah, do tunnel fits? That's great.
- [46:06]
Danny Parisi
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's all the time we have. But thank you guys both so much for being here and thank you for answering all my questions. It was, it was a pleasure having you on.
- [46:15]
Steven Malbin
Thank you.
- [46:16]
Zofia Zviglinska
You too.
- [46:17]
Erica Malbin
We're so happy to speak with you. Thank you so much for having us.
- [46:23]
Danny Parisi
And thank you for listening to the glossy podcast. Don't forget to give us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, wherever you listen to this, because that helps us out so much. And don't forget to subscribe to the glossy podcast to hear interviews with industry insiders and weekend review segments where we break down the news. The new episodes come out every Friday. Until the next time. Thanks for listening.