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- [00:02]
A
Marketers have always had to choose. Build your brand or drive sales. With YouTube, you can do both. It's where the most trusted creators and powerful AI converge to create and convert demand for your brand. That's why YouTube drives higher long term return on ad spend versus TV, paid, social or streaming. There's no more choosing between brand or results. With one platform, you get both. Learn more at g co business YouTube. That's g co business YouTube.
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B
But.
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A
Hello and welcome back to the Glossy Podcast. I'm your host, senior fashion reporter Danny Parisi. And I'm here with our international reporter, Zofia Zvyglinska. Hello, Zofia.
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C
Hi, Danny. I know that you've got a very interesting episode today.
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A
I do something I'm excited to talk about and something that I wrote about earlier this week and it really kind of popped off. So I think there's a lot of interest. Have you seen the Swatch Royal Pop Audemars Piguet collaboration that was revealed this week?
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C
I have. I mean, obviously like the. I've seen the AI images with the strap and then obviously the actual kind of watch pendant that they ended up coming out with. I have a lot of thoughts.
- [01:24]
A
Yes, it's a really interesting collaboration between Swatch, a watch, well known, definitely mass appeal type of low, kind of affordable, entry level watch brand, and Audemars Piguet, which is one of what they call the Holy Trinity, one of the three big, extremely expensive, extremely prestigious Swiss watch brands. They had a collaboration this week which was all over my Instagram feed and depending on your algorithm, maybe you saw it too. Lot of excitement before it was revealed and then after they, well, they announced it, but they didn't show what it looked like and there was a lot of excitement. And then once they actually did the full reveal, I think the excitement changed a little bit because as you said, it's a pendant. It's like a stopwatch that you wear. Not a stopwatch, like a pocket watch that you wear on a lanyard or you clip to a bag, almost like a Labubu or something. And I think among big watch heads, that was a little bit of a deflating moment, realizing it's not an actual wristwatch. But what are your thoughts about it?
- [02:23]
C
Yeah, I mean, I definitely have kind of similarities, I guess that I've seen to the watch charms that I've been covering for like two years now. Like everything from coach to, you know, kind of more luxury brands like Hermes, everyone's come out with some kind of a bag charm. And there has been A kind of growing trend of people wearing things on long pendants. I think there was some designer brands as well that have come out with those things. So I'm not so surprised necessarily by the direction, and I think it looks better than I thought it would. But I'm still disappointed that there isn't, like, an actual watch strap.
- [03:01]
A
Yes. And I agree, I think it's quite fun looking, bright colors. But I agree that there's a little bit of disappointment permeating, I think, the watch world, that it's not a wristwatch. There's already third parties saying that they're going to make mods for it, that you can put it on a strap. But earlier this week, before the the reveal, I spoke with Robertino Altieri, who is the CEO of Watch Guys, which is a big secondhand watch marketplace, and he said to me, if it's not a wristwatch, I think the hype is going to die. That's what he said. And after the reveal, like I said, I think the hype is still there, but it definitely changed a little bit. I brought Robert Tino back onto the Glossy podcast to talk a little bit about his thoughts on the watch before the full reveal, his thoughts afterwards, and. And we also talk quite a bit about just the growth of the watch marketplace. There's a lot of new people entering the hobby and I think a lot of the big, expensive Swiss brands like Audemars Piguet are looking for ways to cater to this newer audience without lowering their prices. So, yeah. So this week we have Robertino, who came back for a second conversation, and we talk quite a lot about the watch industry. So enough preamble. Let's hear my conversation with Robertino. So let's dive into it. Robertino, thank you for being on the Glossy podcast.
- [04:22]
B
Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
- [04:24]
A
So, like I said, the Royal Pop is a combination of the swatch pop and AP's famous Royal Oak. It is not a wristwatch. And that was one thing. There was a lot of speculation about this. It's a necklace pendant, it comes on a lanyard, but you can also clip it onto a bag, you can put it in a little stand on your desk with. But no wrist strap. And, Robertino, when we spoke earlier this week, that was one of the big things that you said would really determine the future of the watch. Is it going to go on the wrist? Will it have an integrated bracelet or not? And it doesn't go on the wrist. So why did you think that was kind of a deciding factor for you? And what do you think now that it's for sure not on the wrist?
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B
Well, price for me is always determined by history, the way that the market has reacted in the past. So with the Omega moonswatch launch in 2022, prices were the same retail price, $300 right around there, maybe just below to about 500 when it first came out. The market went to around 2,500 on the initial day of release. Given though, Swatch did sell out of all the moon Swatches, we'll have to see if they're limited in numbers because they're only at select Swatch stores as well. That's going to be a brand play factor. But everyone was expecting that wristwatch and that's where a lot of the hype was driven. So once we saw it was a pocket watch, a lot of the world's perception has changed. But I think for the positive in the watch world, sure, the people, you know, people in hip hop or streamers, anybody like that really wanted a wristwatch or didn't for their reasons. So I think that the price may have come down a little bit from my initial prediction of about Double MoonsWatch of 5,000. That was if it were a wristwatch, I think it might hover around still 2,500 around that range.
- [06:17]
A
Yeah. Well, the perception I've gotten just from browsing watch forums and talking to people is before the reveal and when people were thinking, I was thinking it would be because I think they first showed it off with, or they first teased it with a print ad that had a bunch of lanyards in it. And so I think people from the beginning had thought of this wristwatch style, pendant style would probably be in there. I was thinking maybe it would be both. Like, it'd come with a strap and you could take it off and put on the lanyard, but it seems like no wrist option at all. I feel like the reaction I have seen has shifted a little bit from absolute must have. People are going to be lining up around the block to oh, that's kind of a cool novelty. Definitely. I still feel some excitement, but it feels like the hype has shifted a little bit. Is that kind of what you're feeling and seeing as well?
- [07:08]
B
Absolutely. I think that people are getting warmed up to it right now. I just think that it's a super innovative drop. Right. It's definitely going to change the way that people think about watches. And it's really ultimately a branding play from ap. It's at a higher price point than a company like Swatch for Example and this type of concept, with all the hype that's come, you know, around it, it's just going to attract a different type of audience. A lot more customers will now know about AP that haven't before. But really I think their goal, they know what they're doing. It was to change the way that watches are worn and to be thought of and that's really what they accomplished.
- [07:49]
A
Yeah, I mean, I completely agree. There's, I think anything other than a regular wristwatch model has really not been in the zeitgeist for a very long time. You compared it to the Swatch and Omega Moon Swatch from a couple years ago and I really think that was definitely a template here. A couple of different things about it, and you and I talked about this earlier this week, but Swatch and Omega are sister brands, so that was kind of an inter company collaboration there. But it was a huge hit. They made a bunch of different models. People really enjoyed it. Like you said, even though it sold at retail fairly low price, it was going on resale for quite a lot. I was doing some digging and I found a lot of people wondered about will doing a kind of low price collaboration with Swatch dilute the Omega brand. I think there's arguments one way or the other, but the former CEO of AP, Francois Henri Bennahmias, said in an interview in 2022 that he loved the Moonswatch. He thought it was a great idea. He like praised Omega and was like, I don't think it dilutes the brand. I think it's such a smart way to educate new people. So he clearly was into Omega doing it. And then a couple years later we have AP doing it. So it feels to me that the Omega Moonswatch was absolutely a, a, a template for this. Do you think there's a through line there?
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B
I do, I do. I think ultimately Speedmaster sales for Omega went up 50% is what the CEO said. For Omega, after the drop, same thing's gonna happen, but with ap, it's a little bit different. Ap, of course they control the supply. So not everyone can walk in and just buy a Speedmaster like you can at Omega. Right. But it will have attracted a larger client base. And if you think about it, the watch that's right here over me, a 41 millimeter AP, if AP would have made a bio ceramic silhouette of that there, definitely it would have, I think, degraded the brand of the real deal, the real thing. So at least the price of it. So I think that doing it this way was smart. By them.
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A
And I've seen some very serious watch collectors already doing a little bit of much like they did with the moonswatch. Like, just so you know, if you buy this, that's not a re real ap. You know, that kind of snootiness, a little bit, maybe a little insecurity of that. Other people will have something that says AP on it, even if, you know, it's not the same as a royal oak.
- [10:12]
B
I think even AP dealers will appreciate people having that because you're just showing your love for the brand. It's just a different way to connect with it. And the way that it's made, you're still able to. It's inspired from the pop swash, right. Which was released in 1986 and that you could pop in and out of. I think it was a bracelet that they put on it. This one. You can still pop it out of it. I've seen people talk about making it like a desk clock. You can make it your own, which is super cool. You can do whatever you want with it. I've seen people talk about it being a lanyard on the belt, handbag charm, a car mirror, a bow tie. There's like so many different things that you can do, so it really just becomes your own.
- [10:55]
A
Yeah. I do think the desk clock version seems the most interesting to me. On a personal level, having a little AP clock on your desk could be cool and does feel a little bit in line with Labubus and other kind of popular, you know, bag charms or little things you clip onto something. So it feels like it's a little bit moving into that space.
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B
It's a collector's item. Yeah, it's a collector's item right now.
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A
Yeah, for sure.
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B
I really like it. I really like it.
- [11:19]
A
Yeah. And the other thing, and we talked about this earlier this week also, I agree with you that I think for AP, it's a way to introduce more people to the brand. As I said, the former CEO publicly said that Omega MoonsWatch was a great way to introduce new people to the brand. AP and Omega are not quite equivalent like AP as much as one of the holy Trinity. Very high end. Omega is high end too, but not quite as to the same degree. But I think it's interesting as the watch collecting hobby grows and the market grows and more people are interested in watches. But part of the appeal is the exclusivity and the luxury of it. I feel like the brands are sometimes in a little bit of a hard place where it's like, how do we cater to the newer consumer. How do we expand the market without diluting or without lowering our prices? And it seems like these sort of collaborations are one way to do that. I don't know, can you see other? Do you think any of the other, like really high end Swiss brands might be brainstorming, you know, what's our version of this? Even if it's not a collaboration, like what's something we can do that's a little bit more accessible and massive?
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B
Good question. On the collaboration front, right away, when you say the word collaboration for a watch company, even before this collab with Swatch, I think of AP because they do collabs with athletes, Marvel, all sorts of things. Richard Mille does it really well. I think that we won't see something like this from Swatch again because that'll be a copycat. I don't think that we'll see that, but I think that we will see a move from Rolex and a move from Patek, the other players in the holy trinity, a way to tap in with the younger audience. These colors were a surefire way to do that. These really bright colors, it just makes it social, but I think that these two players know what they're doing. I'm not sure that it'll be quite as for a young audience like this, but I think that we might see something.
- [13:20]
A
Marketers have always had to build your brand or drive sales. With YouTube you can do both. It's where the most trusted creators and powerful AI converge to create and convert demand for your brand. That's why YouTube drives higher long term return on ad spend versus TV, paid, social or streaming. There's no more choosing between brand or results. With one platform, you get both. Learn more at g co business YouTube. That's g co business YouTube. One thing I always think with Rolex is I don't know if they would directly do some collaboration exactly like this, but they do have they own Tudor, which is a little bit lower price, a little more entry level. And I have seen sometimes, you know, a Tudor watch comes out and it's got some new, I don't know, new movement or new dials or something. And then a couple years later Rolex puts out a new model and you can see how they've sort of tested something out in Tudor and then integrated it into a new Rolex. So it feels like Rolex also has their foot in the kind of lower price market too.
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B
I'm still waiting for a carbon fiber Rolex like Tudor just did. Tudor is definitely, like you said, kind of the test playground for Rolex as a brand. They roll it out there first, see how the market perceives it. So they kind of have an advantage there. But I was a big fan of Tudor's carbon fiber watch that came out, and then they just did one this year. It was an F1 collaboration, so that was something that was cool. And you see them collaborate with F1 and they did that with Tudor. But definitely that's an advantage for them having TUDOR as a brand.
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A
Yeah. And not everything that they do with Tudor does end up making it into a Rolex watch, but it's clear that they test and see the reaction for sure. Zooming out a little bit. So what's your feeling on watch collecting as a hobby in terms of the demographics and the growth? Because one thing I've heard a lot is more people are interested in watches through, like you said, there's streamers, there's musicians and actors who are, you know, visible watch enthusiasts. I feel like I'm seeing more and more people getting interested. Obviously, not everyone can afford a $30,000 AP or something, but I don't know. What's your take on. On the growth of that market?
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B
Watches have really just become the forefront of social culture. I'm not sure if I'm biased, because obviously this is my business, but. Or it's my algorithm. But every time I open Instagram, whether it's the Met Gala, the Kevin Hart roast, whether I'm watching a show on Netflix, like your friends and neighbors, it seems like watches are becoming more and more a part of the story to tell. Like it's a. Almost a side story of almost everything. I feel like now a lot of magazines are writing about it, dedicated watch people now creating stories about them. It's really, at the end of the day, a way to tell your own story. Similar to cars, watches are similar. But my first watch, I got it when I was. When I graduated high school. So that watch will always stay with me. It will always have a story. My next watch, you know, it came after doing something big at my company. So for a lot of people, it'll track a career milestone. It kind of just goes with you for your. With your whole life. So I see a lot of companies and places kind of piggybacking off of that.
- [16:49]
A
Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned your friends and neighbors. This is an Apple TV show with Jon Hamm, because I just started watching it and I think I sort of heard this, but I didn't realize how much watch detail there is. There's like, full on he's steal. It's about. Jon Hamm is a recently fired investment banker and he's tight on money. So he starts, like, stealing from his wealthy, like, social circle friends. But there's, like whole scenes where he's, like, holding up a, you know, Richard Mille. And, like, stats come up on the screen and it shows the movement and the case size and he talks about the history of the brand. I was like, whoa, this is a lot of watch detail.
- [17:26]
B
There's an audience for it, right? There's an audience for. That's why they're doing it.
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A
Yeah. And these. These stats, like, come up on the screen in text as he's, like, talking about. I literally paused the show and was like, I know. Reading all the.
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B
Yeah.
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A
When I.
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B
When it happened, I paused the tv. I was like, to my wife, babe, look at this. What. What's. What's going on? This is crazy.
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A
I think he's got a Patek. I forget the first watch that he steals. Richard Mille is the second one, but
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B
I think it was a Nautilus. I believe it was a Nautilus.
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A
A Nautilus? Yeah, Like a blue dial Nautilus. So I've only watched two episodes, but if you're interested in. It's a pretty good show and it's a good watch show. And I think you're right. I think it's an example of watch collecting, entering into the popular culture. Even people who aren't necessarily buying these watches, I think have fun learning about them and reading the, like knowing the history of the different models and the Daytona and datejust like, I know a lot of this stuff. I don't own an AP at all, but I know the different models just because I find it interesting. But I think those people eventually will one day probably end up buying one of these watches. So there's a bit of a long tail, I guess.
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B
I think so. And what I really liked from this release, upcoming release, is they kept a lot of the components of the real royal oak. They kept the petite tapisserie pattern, the same hands, sapphire case back and sapphire front. And they just kept a lot of those components. That's their core identity, which might lead to people, like you said, getting the real deal eventually.
- [18:54]
A
And it has that classic royal oak. Like, is it octagonal? Like the sort of, like, geometric bezel?
- [19:01]
B
Yeah, the octagonal bezel, everything.
- [19:05]
A
It's got the big AP logo. Yeah, they are quite cool.
- [19:09]
B
One more thing to touch on with that is when we were talking about the value Omega Moonswatch ended up or Swatch, the Moon Swatch ended up releasing about 36 variants of it. And I think if they look at that in the past, think that was one of the major things that diluted the secondary market price. Not that they care about that. But if you want to keep the hype, I think that you keep at these eight core pieces that swatches releasing for the Royal Pop. Got to keep it those eight. If there's a second variation, ap, my opinion should come out with a bracelet. I don't think that they'll do it.
- [19:48]
A
Yeah, well, when we talked earlier this week, I feel like you were quite adamant that like if there's no integrated bracelet or not, that they really should have an integrated bracelet if they want it to be really like go to
- [19:59]
B
the moon, you know, they clearly didn't and their goal was to for a new way to wear watches. Yeah, it was a level above what anybody could think of.
- [20:09]
A
Yeah. And it definitely was. I mean would you say this was a surprising like I know there were some teases at watches and wonders and obviously people were talking about the last few days, but before any of that, like would you say a Swatch and AP collab was, you know, no one, not in. In the cards for anybody?
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B
No, no way. I don't even when you saw Royal Pop, people were doubting that it was AP and it was the same exact font as Royal Oak, like the same identical font. Yeah.
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A
So people were doubting it.
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B
Yeah. It's just a play from left field really.
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A
Yeah. One more thing I want to ask more. Kind of like larger watch market situation. But so in the secondary market, like you said, as an outside observer, I find the prices in the secondary market to be very indicative of sentiment and just like health of different brands and other things like that. And you said maybe the brands don't care about the price. Do you think that's true? Like do you think they officially don't care? But maybe internally they're, they're keeping track of these numbers or what do you think?
- [21:11]
B
Hard to give an answer for sure because I think that Rolex just entered, just started up their CPO program a few years ago. It's a way for them to buy and sell pre owned watches that trade at remarkably higher prices than their retail prices. So for them to create a whole program and say that they're not thinking about it doesn't seem logical to me. I haven't seen other brands, at least in the holy trinity enter that pre owned market. But they have to know because with the Royal Oak stainless steel Model, it trades at probably the highest premium, one of the highest premiums for their retail pieces in the secondary market. And it's something that's harder to get than a gold piece.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So why are they doing that? I can't answer it, but I think they have to be looking at the secondary market.
- [22:01]
A
Yeah. And then you see things like Rolex discontinued the Cookie Monster, I believe, a little while ago. And I think that was one of the few Rolexes that maybe wasn't selling as hot on the secondary market, but then they discontinued the Pepsi, and that was selling really well. So it's like. It feels like, you know, what. What's the logic there? And obviously, they're very secretive about that kind of stuff.
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B
Yeah, yeah. The Cookie Monster was, you know, historically a model that year after year performed about, like, $15,000 less than its retail price. It's going for around $52,000. We were selling the watch before it got discontinued around 32. So we're buying it 30, 29. Depends on the year of the watch. And then they discontinued it. Prices are at about 37 right now. 37, 39. So it did increase it slightly.
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A
Yeah.
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B
I don't know if it's because of their secondary market prices that they're conscious of. I don't know.
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A
Yeah. And what about the Pepsi? Like, has there been changes since? Because that was very recent. They discontinued it.
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B
Well, Pepsi, it surged before the discontinuation because the speculation. So the price was already at about 30,000 since it got discontinued. The 20, 26 models had the largest premium, so they're around 35 still. Anything lower than that will come down from there, like 32, 31, 30, 28. Depends on the year of the watch. Cool.
- [23:29]
A
Well, Robertino, this was a great conversation, but I want to ask you one more thing before we go, because we've talked a little bit about how this was an unexpected move, how it's very fun. You know, it's a very fun watch. The colors are. Are bright and, you know, the form is very, you know, playful and unique. I feel like the layman might have a perception of some of the big Swiss brands. They're all like, you know, 100 or more years old. They're kind of. They've been. They pride themselves on having made watches the same way for a long time. And I feel like that can create a perception of. What's the word? Stagnancy, or that they're not as willing to try new things. And obviously, the AP Swatch Royal Pop is an example of Them very much being okay with trying a new thing and letting their brand name be used for something fun and kind of like out of the box. But do you think that that's a mischaracterization to say that the big Swiss brands in general are like hesitant to do things like this or like, do
- [24:31]
B
you think this is an outlier characterization? I think that's correct. I think that as a whole, brands aren't necessarily to go this far. Right. This is something, it's unprecedented, the hype that we've seen from this collaboration. But I mean, you do see it. Like I said with ap, with Marvel, that was cool. Richard Mille just dropped a LeBron James watch. You'll see brands do things that are seem natural for their company, the right brand play for their company. But going this far was. It's created this hype. That's unbelievable.
- [25:08]
A
Yeah, I mean, my social feed has been absolutely wallpapered with the Royal Pop the last few days.
- [25:14]
B
Yeah. Yeah, me too. Everybody's sending me it. Everybody.
- [25:20]
A
Are you planning to buy and sell Royal Pop Son Watch?
- [25:23]
B
Guys, I imagine we have had countless number of emails, phone calls. We have our own waiting list for people that are looking to buy them already. For all the calls that we get and all of the texts, anything, we're directing people to just email us salesatch.com we're going to do our best to go in order of the inquiries that we receive, but there's over probably 50 people that want the watch right now that I can sell it to right when I get it.
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A
So there's a lot of demand.
- [25:53]
B
Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy.
- [25:57]
A
Well, I appreciate you coming on and discussing it with us and discussing this exact topic with me twice in one week. Like I said, I have a story on Glossy that ran a couple days ago. Robertino was a great source for that, so you can read that as well in addition to listening to this great conversation. Robertino, thank you for being here. We have to have you on the Glossy podcast again next time we're talking watches.
- [26:19]
B
Happy to do it. Thank you guys so much. Appreciate it. God bless.
- [26:27]
A
And thank you for listening to the Glossy podcast. Don't forget to give us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify wherever you listen to this, because that helps us out so much. And don't forget to subscribe to the Glossy podcast to hear interviews with industry insiders and weekend review segments where we break down the news. The new episodes come out every Friday. Until the next time, thanks for listening, Sam.