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The Glossy Podcast
Week in Review: Jonathan Anderson leaves Loewe, Michael Kors sells on Amazon and buy-now, pay-later platforms gain traction
00:24:06
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- [00:06]
Danny Parisi
Hello and welcome back to the Glossy Week in Review podcast. I'm your host, senior fashion reporter Danny Parisi, and I'm here with our editor in chief, Jill Manoff. Jill, I feel like it's been a little while since we've had you on.
- [00:16]
Jill Manoff
I know I missed this. Thanks for having me.
- [00:19]
Danny Parisi
You've been busy with your new role. You're editing Modern Retail as well as Klossy. I know you've got a million things to do and you were traveling as well, I think, right?
- [00:26]
Jill Manoff
Yeah, all over the place. But we are butt in seat today in St. Louis and. Yeah, ready for this.
- [00:32]
Danny Parisi
Good. Well, I'm happy to have you back. This week we're talking about a couple fun things. The big one is Jonathan Anderson leaving Louisville, which was strongly rumored, not really surprising to anyone. There's even a strong rumor of where he'll go and who will replace him. And I actually think we could talk a little bit about rumors in general and their effect on the industry because we'll get to it. We'll get to it. I was about to launch into it and I was like, maybe we'll wait a second. Secondly, we will talk about Michael Kors selling on Amazon. We can do a little check in on Amazon's luxury stores initiative, which they launched a couple years ago. And then finally, we're going to talk about Klarna going public. Klarna is a buy now, pay later company. I have a lot of thoughts about that whole world and especially in the sort of economic situation we're in now, what the role of those buy now, pay later companies will be. But again, we'll get to that in a minute. Let's start with Jonathan Anderson. So he was the creative director for Loewe since 2013. We've said this many times on the podcast. That is an eternity nowadays for creative directors. So many creative directors do not get even a fifth of that amount of time at one brand to really make their mark. But, man, he really turned Loewe into a household name. They were a big brand already, part of lvmh. But truly, I think he put them on the map and now they're spoken about in the same way, the same breath as Gucci and Prada and all the other big kind of European luxury houses. But that does not happen overnight. You know, that takes a lot of investment. And he had 12 years to work there and turn Loewe into what it is. And so anyway, now he's leaving. I will pause there. Joe, what are your thoughts on this?
- [02:09]
Jill Manoff
Yeah, I Didn't realize he'd been there since so long. And because Loewe, I feel like really hit its stride over the last maybe five years and you see it like going up the ranks on the list index and this puzzle bag which has become this iconic bag, I didn't realize Also that was 10 years old, but it's still hot as ever. And I know they come out with new iterations and all of that, but wow, what an impact. And yes, his. It just shows how LVMH believed in him. Obviously the conglomerate invested in his namesake brand, J.W. anderson, and. And he is believed to be going to Dior again under the same umbrella. But to give him that amount of time to kind of like grow it and invest in him, like it says a lot as everyone's playing designer musical chairs. Like, not everyone gets this chance to prove themselves. I don't think that he was quite as hot coming out of the gate. Like, again, showed potential, but in terms of moving sales, that's been more recent for sure.
- [03:16]
Danny Parisi
Yeah. And you're right, only in researching this for this episode did I realize he'd been there since 2013. Because, same as you, I feel like they first started blowing up like five years ago, maybe kind of a little bit after I first started at Klossy. So I was thinking like, just off the top of my head, he must have started sometime around like 2018 or 2019. But no, since 2013. And I always think of a non fashion example, but I love the author, Cormac McCarthy who wrote Blood Meridian and a bunch of classic novels. But his first five or six books were flops and they kept publishing his books until, I think it was all the Pretty Horses was the first one that was actually successful. And then now he's like, I mean, he's dead now, but he's a very acclaimed author. But if he had just the first two or three had flopped and they'd been like, all right, you gave it a good try, no more, then we wouldn't have gotten all those books. So I think the same happens with fashion, where the first collection out of the gate for a new creative director might not immediately set fire to the brand or whatever, but in a good way. But it could if you kind of invest in them and give them the time.
- [04:21]
Jill Manoff
I also take it back to when I started at Glossy and I don't know, probably a couple of years in, I interviewed Kate Lamphere. She's like my style icon. And I think it was at Marie Claire, but I went to their offices. And she was walking me through a shoot wardrobe and showing me the clothes. And she said at the time, loewe. And I was like, oh, thank God she said it. Cause I didn't know how to pronounce it at that time. And I was like, oh, that's how you pronounce it? Like, it was so unknown to me. So, yeah, definitely, like, now nobody mispronounces it.
- [04:51]
Danny Parisi
Yeah, I was just gonna say, probably most people know how to actually say it now. I also thought it was low for a long time because it wasn't like, prominent enough for me to really hear it said out loud that much. But it definitely is. Now, you mentioned there's a strong rumor that he's going to Dior. And the whole kind of saga around this is interesting. The New York Times had a great story about it where they talked about the weird, slow moving rumor mill where it's like all of these moves were kind of rumored or known about, but they've been happening one piece at a time. So first, Jack McCullough and Lazaro Hernandez from Proenza Schuler left. And everyone thought they would be going to Loewe, but they can't go to Loewe because Jonathan Anderson is still there. Now Jonathan Anderson is leaving, and everyone is believing that he's gonna go to Dior and that the Proenza Schuller guys will replace him at Loewe and the designers from Dior will go somewhere. And it kind of just like hangs over everybody's shows. You know, the last. The last Loewe show, the last Dior show, there was. Instead of the focus being on the clothes, there's a conversation that's all about, like, the fantasy football kind of element of it, of, like, what team are they gonna go to? And things like that. It kind of. I can see being the designer. Like, imagine you're doing a show and everyone in the audience is just talking about whether you're going to be replaced soon. That must be very strange torture.
- [06:09]
Jill Manoff
And think about. I thought New York Times made a great point about Maria Grazia Curie at Dior because she's made a big impact. There was a. There were some great figures that she's taken the brand from a 2 billion euros business to a 9 billion euros business and put this new feminine space on. On the brand. And also, hey, female creative director. That's rare. And. And so, like, is she just getting the boot? Is. Does she want out of this? There are question marks all around in terms of what's happening at Dior. And we all know that a Kim Jones skedaddled. And I. It was in the middle of all of this, the rumor mills flowing. So maybe he just didn't want to go through this torture of just waiting to be canned or whatever the heck is happening. Nobody really knows.
- [06:55]
Danny Parisi
Yeah. And the fact that they didn't replace Kim Jones, I think some people have said, is evidence that Jonathan Anderson will probably replace both of them and do the men's and women's together. Yeah. I'm kind of torn on this. Like, on the one hand, I can see, like, the negative effect of the rumor mill and how it can be weird, like, inside baseball kind of conversation and maybe detrimental to the creative directors. On the other hand, these fashion brands are so secretive and so protective that. And I don't think it's bad to, like, report on them, especially things that they maybe don't want reported. Like, that's not. Obviously, that's my job. I'm like. But that's. I don't think that's a bad thing on its own. So I don't want to be like, we should respect the giant corporation's wishes and not, like, you know, report anything they don't want reported. Obviously. But I do see at the. On the artistic side, I could see that being really weird if you're Curie or if you're Kim Jones or whatever. And everyone's just talking about how you're going to be replaced soon. Like, I could see that having a negative impact on your, I don't know, mental health and your ability to perform, or you're even a desire to continue at that brand. If you're like, well, the public has already replaced me in their mind, so, like, I might as well just leave.
- [08:02]
Jill Manoff
Agree. What do you think? I feel like the Proenza boys are a great fit for Louisville. It makes great sense to me. I mean, I feel like Jonathan Anderson could maybe do anything, but it's just odd. I can't imagine what Jonathan Anderson's Dior looks like. And I'm sure, I mean, he'll have a big impact considering what was his growth. What were his growth numbers for Loewe? It was.
- [08:23]
Danny Parisi
Oh, they were huge.
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Jill Manoff
Multiplied seven times over his tenure to €2 billion for the company. I'm sure it'll be amazing. I gotta wonder what's gonna happen to J.W. anderson, his brand, like, he's. He's gonna have his hands full, especially if he's doing the men's and women's side of Dior.
- [08:38]
Danny Parisi
Yeah. And that's, that's a lot for one designer to handle. I, I definitely want to see what his tenure is like at Dior in terms of length. Like as if anyone has earned the kind of like, you know, give them a couple seasons to cook, like it would, it would be him. And I agree with you that I think the Proenza Schuler designers will be a good fit for Loewe. I just feel like it's kind of in the same vibe.
- [09:01]
Jill Manoff
Yeah, Craft, cool, all the things.
- [09:06]
Danny Parisi
Let's move on to our next topic. I want to talk about Michael Kors, which is now selling on Amazon. A little while ago, like several years ago actually, Amazon debuted a. Something that calls luxury stores, which is like a section of the site dedicated to luxury brands. And they kind of have, each brand has its own little, you know, mini website within Amazon. And I just remember when it launched, like we wrote about it and Jillian and I talked about it a lot, but just like had a paltry kind of selection. You know, they had like the brands that they had were, were good. Like they had Oscar de la Renta and stuff, but it just was like a handful and none of them were like super duper luxury type of brands.
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Jill Manoff
For a long time it was just Oscar de la Renta. Right.
- [09:45]
Danny Parisi
Oscar de la Renta and like Altaz I think was on there early. Maybe not from day one, but early and a handful of others. But it just feels like it never really took off. And in the years since, I don't think they've really scooped up that many other notable brands. They've got Patbaux and Larude and stuff. Again, cool brands on their own, but as a whole it's not the most impressive catalog. This week Michael Kors announced that they now have their own section of the website on Amazon. Definitely somewhat of a coup, but it still fits into that kind of affordable luxury kind of thing. It's not the most prestigious. They're not selling Loewe on Amazon or anything like that.
- [10:24]
Jill Manoff
Yeah, it's, I, it was noted the Michael Kors collection, the high end line, is not included in this Amazon assortment. It's interesting. I mean, where I want to go. Where have you been, Michael Kors? Like you're just now getting onto Amazon when meanwhile their competitors, like Coach, they're there. They have a coaches on there. Yeah, I don't know, I think like they're trying to make some moves. They were, they were kind of in limbo for a while with Under Capri holdings and that whole Tapestry deal was like waiting to shake out. And now they have these big gross goals because Michael Kors is slumping and their revenue does not look good. So I think they're trying to some things. But yeah, I feel like this is the problem. They should have done this a long time ago. It's not like they're the most exclusive brand. They're selling at Macy's, for crying out loud. Not that that's, you know, it's just that a mainstream department store. But yeah, competitors, Calvin Klein's there. I feel like all of the, the brands in their kind of comparable tier are already there.
- [11:20]
Danny Parisi
Yeah, and I think you make a good point that probably the Tapestry Capri deal was probably putting a bunch of stuff on ice. Like, let's wait to see how this plays out before we make any big moves. And now that that deal is kaput, maybe they're like, okay, now we'll like, you know, do some of these things we've been planning. But yeah, I agree. I mean, a lot of their competitors, that affordable luxury space are on Amazon. You could argue whether that's a good thing. I think if you're not a super prestigious high luxury brand, it's probably great in terms of volume and stuff. I remember at the time of the launch of Amazon's luxury stores talking to a bunch of luxury brands and they were like, we don't want to be sold next to the toilet paper. And Amazon's solution to that is to give the brands their own separate little stores. But you're still on Amazon. It's got the Amazon font. The buy button is the yellow button with the text. There's no illusion that you're not shopping on Amazon.com but again, if you're Michael Kors or a brand in that kind of space, maybe that's not such a big deal, you know?
- [12:20]
Jill Manoff
Yeah, I really like how the conversation is changing when I ask brands about. Like, I notice you're on Amazon. Like it used to be very like pooh, poohed. Oh yeah, that's just like the, the evergreen assortment. We just do that to win customers. They kind of like dismiss it and move on and they don't want to talk about it. And now more brands are really owning it. They're saying, well, yeah, we want to be, be where the customer is. That's where our customer is shopping. We want to take advantage of prime and they want that expedited shipping. We can't provide that. And it's just kind of matter of fact. So I do think it's becoming more common I also think, speaking of Michael Kors itself, like and, and creative director shakeups, I feel like they could use a jolt, like somebody really amazing and new to come in. And I remember the heyday and you don't want them to like stay in their lane. Like you don't have to say exactly how you once were when you were hot, because you need to evolve. When you look on their site now and their Instagram, like it almost is having like an identity crisis. It's very like a woman in bags, like in the water and there's rocks and it's kind of natural and kind of generic, like something that you've seen before. And like back in the day they were synonymous with the jet set lifestyle. And it was Carmen Cass was the model, like for years and it had her like stepping out of a plane or coming out of her nice car. And it was very aspirational. And yeah, they need some of that, some of that, I don't know, sexiness.
- [13:45]
Danny Parisi
Jonathan Anderson could shock everybody by moving, not going to Dion instead of going to Michael Kors. That would be the jolt they need. I don't know if it would be good for his career, but you're onto something. Yeah. Cool. Last thing I want to talk about is Klarna, which is a buy now, pay later company. They've been gearing up for an IPO for a long time and then last week they finally kind of filed their initial filings. Whatever those first stages you have to do to actually get it started. I thought we could spend a few minutes talking about the state of buy now, pay later as a concept. I feel like fashion brands have been tinkering with it for quite a while now. Some of these companies like Affirm and Klarna have gotten really big and there's also a little bit of competition kind of happening. I mean, just before this ipo, Klarna signed an exclusive partnership with Walmart, which is huge because previously Walmart was an Affirm client. And so it was like they kind of like stole their, like this huge client right out from under them. And interesting also because a firm tends to be, I think, more US focused and Klarna is a little bit more global. I think they're based in Sweden and they're used by a lot of European companies and stuff too. So that's interesting because Walmart is such a big US presence. But I, I don't know. I mean, a lot of fashion brands that we talk to use them, I think for like higher priced items, which a lot of like luxury and fashion stuff. I think that's, it's more common to have those like buy and for installments kind of options. I don't know. What do you, what do you think of this whole world Jill? It feels like it had some, a big up when it first kind of was like a concept and then a trowel, you know and then now it feels like it's kind of picking back up again.
- [15:22]
Jill Manoff
I mean it speaks the fact that it's booming and both of these companies affirm in Klarna. The big ones are multibillion dollar business and public, publicly traded. It's, it says something about the state of America. Go ahead.
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Danny Parisi
Oh I was gonna say and Klarna is profitable too. I don't know about a firm but Klarna is profitable I do believe.
- [15:42]
Jill Manoff
Yeah, we'll get to the bottom of this. But yeah, huge. I feel like Klarna is taking the big, the big companies now they just signed with Google, Google Pay and also Apple, Apple Inc. And then some deal with JP Morgan Chase where they have access to like they could, I don't know, I guess JP Morgan has 900,000 businesses they work with so you know there's opportunity there. But Affirm also, I mean nothing to sneeze at. They team with Amazon and Shopify and Target and some other like you said American, more American centric brands.
- [16:14]
Danny Parisi
They also just signed with Stockx Affirm did oh like a week, like a week ago.
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Jill Manoff
See I just think businesses are also in like in trouble and it's not a great time for consumers or, or retailers and brands and I don't know Klarna is really talking up who know I mean every who's not talking like this up in their like earnings reports and earnings calls that they're using like AI to provide more efficiencies and to in house and with their operations and maybe they're saving money but the fact of the matter is companies are going to go to the, the provider who's giving them right now probably the cheapest deal because I don't think they differ all that much. Right. So maybe Klarna is able to offer that at a more affordable price and maybe that's why they're gaining such traction right now. Who's, who's to say?
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Danny Parisi
Yeah, no, I think you're right from my experience which I've never actually used them but I've kind of dug into how they work. I think they're all basically the same. They're micro loaning. It's sort of like the classic Tech thing to reinvent something that already exists except without regulations. But I think you're right that the economic kind of situation right now is very. I think my prediction is that the Buy Now, Pay Laters companies are going to do really well for a bit because people just like everything's super expensive, wages in the US are stagnating, but people still want their treats. Pretty much, yes. I think they're going to embrace a lot of those. I personally would not use them because I think they're a little predatory. The interest rates on this Walmart partnership with klarna is like 10% to 36%. That is insane. That's so bad. And we were just talking before the recording. It's like, if you have a credit card, why not just use your credit card? I don't know.
- [18:02]
Jill Manoff
Yes, people are more free with their money. I think I told you I've had a debit card like for my whole life and I didn't earn any credit. But like, you know what I mean? Like I like to have the money that I'm spending anyway. It, it's crazy. And it's interesting for investors who are going to be investing in the. Well, when, Wait, they have not gone public yet, right?
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Danny Parisi
No, they just filed their, their like paperwork for it.
- [18:26]
Jill Manoff
So it'll be like investors are betting that the American, Americans will remain in debt. Basically. It's, it's wild.
- [18:34]
Danny Parisi
It is. And I think though that. So my prediction is that in the short term I think these companies are going to do really well because the economy is like kind of tanking and like people don't have any money. So they'll be using, they'll be turning to Buy Now, Pay Laters to like buy, you know, a handbag or something. But I think it's like going to backfire at least on the, the consumers in the future because like those companies make money when you mess up and don't pay and then you get locked into the debt cycle. That's how it works. The other thing is there is no regulation on this world. Really. Last year the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau issued a ruling that Buy Now, Pay later companies should be subject to all the same regulations as a credit card or any other kind of loan service, which would include the ability for consumers to dispute charges and things like that. Except now the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau doesn't exist anymore because DOGE deleted it. Oh, interesting. So if you're a consumer and you use one of these companies and you get any sort of dispute with them, you are on your Own you do not like. The classic advice was like, file a complaint with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau because they have the muscle to pressure these companies to give you your money back if they mess up or something. But that backup does not exist anymore, so you're on your own. And I just think that that's going to get a bunch of people into debt and then there won't be anyone to use the platforms anymore, you know, I don't know. I just don't think it's good for long term.
- [20:05]
Jill Manoff
Oh my gosh. Wild. That those things are happening while Klarna is taking off. It's like, yep, woo.
- [20:12]
Danny Parisi
And I think any prospect of some other regulatory body issuing any sort of regulation on buy now, pay later is like 0%. Because the whole current administration's thing is like no regulations on anything. Deregulate and privatize everything. So it's like I would not be getting into a scammy, sketchy kind of business deal with some large company at this moment when there's like zero chance of any rules being put on their behavior.
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Jill Manoff
Write it down.
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Danny Parisi
Maybe that's like a little pessimistic, but I don't know. That's my feeling.
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Jill Manoff
But I think it's always good advice to not get involved with a scammy company, Danny.
- [20:51]
Danny Parisi
That's true. That's true. You wouldn't know it though, from the way people love to dive into these things, but I do think that the fashion industry will also kind of continue to work with them. Like we mentioned, Stockx just signed with the firm and so did Debenhams, which is a department store. Had to look up that pronunciation. But I feel like we will see more companies in our space. Kind of like, you know, striking deals with Affirm or afterpay or Klarna or whoever it is.
- [21:17]
Jill Manoff
Yeah, most of them are already there.
- [21:19]
Danny Parisi
Yeah. Cool. Well, I think that's all the time we have. Anything else you wanted to say, Joan?
- [21:23]
Jill Manoff
No. This was fun.
- [21:25]
Danny Parisi
Well, thank you so much for being here. It's great to have you back. Like I said, it's been a little while since you were on and hopefully we will have you on again soon.
- [21:32]
Jill Manoff
I hope so.
- [21:33]
Danny Parisi
For those of you listening, don't forget to give us a rating and a review on Apple podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen to the Glossy podcast because that helps us out so much. And don't forget to subscribe to the Glossy podcast to hear interviews with industry insiders and we can review episodes. We are actually going to be tinkering with the format a little bit in the coming weeks. So I had to alter my little outro here. But if you are a fan of the glossy podcast, stay tuned. In the next week or two, we're going to be experimenting a little bit. There will still be week in review segments. We're still going to be discussing the news. We just may mess around a little bit with the format, but we will. You'll see what that will look like very soon. New and improved. Exactly. Until next time, thank you all for listening.