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- [00:01]
A
10 years of glossy calls for something new. To celebrate a decade of covering the business of beauty, fashion and wellness, we're revamping the glossy daily newsletter with more reporting, more industry insights, and expanded coverage of glossy events, awards, and the trends shaping the industry. Sign up for the new Glossy Daily at Glossy Co Newsletters. Again, that's Glossy Co Newsletters. If you're already signed up, keep an eye on your inbox. The new daily newsletter hits inboxes on June 1st. Hello and welcome back to the Glossy Podcast. I'm your host, senior fashion reporter Danny Parisi, and I'm here with our international reporter, Zofia Zviglinska. Hello, Zofia. How are you?
- [00:47]
B
Yeah, great, thank you. I mean, it's been such an interesting week that you've missed out on. Donnie was away.
- [00:55]
A
Yeah, I just got back from Arizona, which immediately obliterated all of my East Coast New York snobbishness. And now I think the Southwest is the most beautiful place in the country. It was amazing. But, yeah, I missed out on a pretty eventful episode last week. This week I'm going to be talking about menswear with a very cool guest. But before we get to that, I wanted to ask you a little bit about this because you guys talked about Shein acquiring Everlane last week, and that was a big shock to a lot of people. And we don't have to recap all of that. You can go back and listen to that episode. But there has been a development since then in the last week in addition to all of the reactions pouring in from the rest of the industry, which have been quite amusing to watch. But Zofia, tell us, what's the big development that's happened since the news last week?
- [01:41]
B
Yeah. So I mean, obviously Michael Prisman, who co founded Everlane in 2011 and served as CEO for the brand, he found out about the sale to Shein apparently at the same time as everyone else. And so from that, he's now starting his own fashion brand. And it is a fashion brand according to the company. It's called Still Radical, or at least the website is called stillradical.com and await this has signed up for obviously the same kind of values, leading with transparency, all of the things that kind of made Eveline special. It seems like he's trying to have another crack at it. Went back and forth with with their team and it seems like there's 33,000 people on the wait list as of yesterday, which is Wednesday. So very interested to see if that list is going to grow and kind of what else is actually going to come from the brand? What do you think about it? Is it possible to make an Everlane 2.0?
- [02:44]
A
I don't know. I think an interesting thing. Well, definitely the time. The landscape is different now from when Everlane was first founded. And another interesting thing about the announcement of Michael Prisman's new brand is that it says on the website no private equity, no venture capital. Which is interesting. I feel like the world has really turned against those two sources of funding because I think we've seen a lot of examples of VC backed companies falling apart or private equity acquired companies falling apart or being stripped for parts. I thought that was interesting to that that was a commitment. We'll see if that actually stands when the brand comes out. But yeah, I just thought that was interesting. He also wrote an op ed with Vogue talking a little bit about it, and it seems like his feelings on the Shein acquisition are quite clear. But speaking of elevated basics, we had a really fun conversation. We recorded it a little while ago with Albert Mousquez, also known as Edgy Albert, who is a really great menswear influencer, content creator, writer. And we talked a lot. We talked about the state of menswear, particularly about how the trends of menswear seem to change very slowly. And there's a glut of elevated basic type menswear brands like Buck Mason and others that all are like kind of competing to make the the best white T shirt. And so there's like such a narrow band of, of success in menswear. It's a really interesting category. I'm interested in it on a personal level, obviously, but Albert had a lot of really interesting things to say. So that's our conversation this week. Anything else we should go over before we get to that conversation?
- [04:21]
B
That sounds great. I'm looking forward to listening in. I know that content creators have some great takes and a lot of insider Y knowledge, so I'm sure he gets into that.
- [04:31]
A
They do. And you'll hear Albert also has been toying with designing and starting a brand. I mean, he's not in the middle of doing that, but he, he talks a little bit about what that kind of looks like. I think a content creator especially has lots of opportunities, but there's also a lot of challenges there. So it was a good conversation. How about we finish up our preamble here and enjoy my conversation with Albert Muskes? As I've said on this podcast many times before, I'm a big menswear head I think it's a really fascinating subset of fashion and quite different than women's wear in a lot of ways, structurally, operationally. I wanted to dive into what's happening in menswear right now, particularly why vintage seems to have such a big hold on menswear and also some other topics related to menswear. I just think it's very interesting. But I have a perfect guest for this topic. I have Albert Mouskes, better known as Edgy Albert. You may have seen him on TikTok or Instagram. Menswear content creator, writer, YouTuber Albert, you make really fun little mini documentaries About Fashion on YouTube. You write the. The substack, the mid letter. I believe you have a mood board, Instagram, separate from your main Instagram, is that right? Yeah.
- [05:42]
C
It sort of goes fallow, though, for long periods of time, so that's probably not the most important thing on the roster.
- [05:49]
A
Well, you are an expert on menswear, in my opinion, and very influential. I was just saying before the recording, maybe two years ago, I wrote a story that's like, who's influencing men's fashion right now? And I just asked a bunch of random stylish men, and every single person mentioned your name. So I think, despite the fallow moodboard, Instagram, I think your main account and your YouTube and your substack have really been working in terms of influencing men, stylish men these days. So thank you for being here.
- [06:18]
C
No, thank you for having me and the kind words. It's nice to know that the work is not going for granted completely. It's resonating, so it's nice.
- [06:30]
A
Well, one thing I want to ask you about later is I feel like you tap into a specific type of menswear guy who's very interested in the technical details, and we can talk about why that is. But the first thing I wanted to ask you is you had a video recently, I think in April or March, about summer shorts, in which you recommended some vintage Ralph Lauren Tyler shorts, and the caption of your video said, reject modernity. Embrace vintage polo Ralph Lauren. You probably get a million more questions about what to wear than I do, but I occasionally get asked by guys where to buy clothes, what to do, and one of the things I always say is, go on ebay, search vintage Ralph Lauren, and just buy whatever you see there. Yeah, I feel like vintage really has a strong hold on men's fashion in particular. Obviously, thrifting's been around for a while, and secondhand and resale is popular across all fashion, but particularly in menswear, it feels like there's a huge interest in vintage and particularly brands like Ralph Lauren. What do you think behind that and tell me your interest in vintage fashion.
- [07:30]
C
It's funny, a friend of mine is working on a pitch deck about a sort of vintage reselling show and so she called me and was asking basically the same question. I think that through my work on the YouTube channel, when I get to explore more how things are made, what I feel like I end up learning more and more is that we just certainly as a country, even as a world, it's become a lot more difficult to make things of substance. And I also think that there's the quality aspect and then there's the price that comes with it. I think we're going to circle back to that later. And then also I think there's just a deal hunting aspect that I think is fun and it's nice to,
- [08:23]
A
you
- [08:24]
C
know, step away from these big brands. And I just like, it's just nice to know that you can get these reasonably priced basics that will be the, like, you know, foundation of your wardrobe. And you don't have to, you know, go too deep into your pocket to do that and you don't have to, you know, add to the degradation of our, you know, planet or, you know, so it's. I think that vintage is a really nice off ramp for people that have been struggling to figure out what they want to wear. There's also just sort of the built in, like patina aspect of worn in clothes. And then even like, you know, beyond quality, there's. Well, I think this is, connects to quality that, you know, if you see in modern Levi's, the way the cut works, I have to imagine that just to save time and save money, they're cutting corners with the pattern making because those don't sit on the body the way that these clothes used to. So there were these sort of more time consuming techniques and these things that were just fundamentally less efficient that I think made clothes better. And, you know, and that is not to say that there aren't amazing factories, aren't amazing brands, but even like I'm learning, I'm making jeans with a brand in L A And you know, even when you go to make something here in the US from a really talented manufacturer, the kind of initial sample basically makes all the mistakes that mass produced clothes make. You have to fight so hard to make something that is flattering and interesting and then it's costing a zillion dollars.
- [10:24]
A
Yeah, I think you've hit on A lot of what I kind of suspected was driving it. I think the quality piece seems really important, particularly to the stylish men that I know. It's like, I think the last few years have really shown the lie of newer is always better. I think there's more corner. Corner cutting. Technology has advanced more than anything else, really. Like, there are so many ways to make more clothing and make it worse. And that's kind of like what's been rewarded. So even the most generic, like, department store staple brand from 20 or 30 years ago, the average quality was. Was significantly better compared to now, where there's. You have like the super, super cheap stuff like Shein or whatever. But a lot of other brands, I think, have been pushed by Shein and team, you know, those types of brands to find ways to make more at a shittier quality.
- [11:20]
C
Yeah, I mean, there's like these lowest common denominator brands that push everyone down further and, you know, and then all these American companies are controlled by private equity and are basically. There's basically no soul or substance to the brand. It's just a name that basically functions to trick consumers into shopping with them. Basically any heritage brand, you touch the fabric and it's wrong. There's something fundamentally wrong with it. And it's kind of hard to point out unless you've had the luxury of touching a good fabric, but it's like night and day. And yeah, it's just. I mean, I think that that was the reason that the JFK Jr thing happened. I mean, he was obviously very wealthy, but to. So many of the clothes that people were wearing in that era were just. You could just go to a department store and buy them. You didn't have to go on ebay and know the right search terms. You didn't have to go to like colbo and spend $1,000. You could, like, just go to a store and walk out with something that was pretty flattering and solid.
- [12:31]
A
Yeah, they hadn't invented like, shittier materials yet, like polyesters and all the artificial things that came later. And still to this day, a lot of menswear and fashion in general, the stylish people that I know are really pay attention to the material. Natural fibers. Is this wool or cotton and what type of worsted wool and tropical wool and stuff instead of just like, I don't know, not even looking at the tag?
- [12:55]
C
Yeah, I mean, yeah, polyester has been in use since, like the. In some fashion since its invention in like the 40s, 30s and 40s. But yeah, definitely it's gone to a whole other level in the last decade or so.
- [13:13]
A
Yeah. And that's how you get shirts that cost $2 on shein. Not to pick on that one platform, but I'm just saying, like, that's the real bottom of the barrel. And I think you're right. It kind of drags the quality down.
- [13:23]
C
I mean, even like you got Brooks Brothers making stretch shirts with stretch fibers in it. And it's like you guys used to be something, you used to mean something. And what's this fucking garbage you're making? It's really disappointing.
- [13:36]
A
But again, it's like you could just pick any, any medium price, medium prestige brand from like a couple decades ago and just the average quality was better. So I know you are a strong proponent of vintage as we're talking about. What do you, what kinds of things do you buy new? Like, are there things that you think vintage fits better and some things where maybe it's better off getting new?
- [14:01]
C
I think boots, I like to buy new. I think that leather, leather really breaks into the first wearer the best. And so it's somewhat the same case with jackets as well. But you know, a vintage patina leather jacket is obviously always cool, but you can buy vintage boots and they're just completely wrong because they formed somebody else's foot. So. And then also I think knitwear is really tough, even though, like there are things about like cashmere fibers were thicker in the past than they are now. I think to do with global warming and something to do with the breeding of like the, you know, the cashmere animals. Yeah, but goats, Is that what they are?
- [14:52]
A
Goats or sheep? I don't really know. I'm not sure.
- [14:54]
C
Yeah, I guess angora is goats. So I think cashmere sheep. But even though the quality was so high of knits back in the day, something about those kinds of woolen products just do not typically age well. Just they get gross and it's hard to get them clean again. And so many, you know, talk about artificial fibers. Like once, you know, like acrylic came out, everyone was like, let's just make fake sweaters in this shit. And you'll see a gorgeous looking sweater. You're like, oh wait, it's all polyester.
- [15:26]
A
Yeah.
- [15:27]
C
And then also like things like cotton knits were not so much a thing in the past. Like certain kinds of, you know, flannels were more often wool way back. True vintage, they didn't make a lot of act like true black clothing. So there are some like things and fits that you can't find on the vintage market. And that's always tough because I like, I like that hack, right, where you just. Whatever trend you see, you can find it cheap and vintage. And sometimes if the trends are going like, super wide, for example, there's no real vintage precedent for that. And you can't. You can't always. You can't really make it work. But, you know, you might want a new T shirt. But yeah, you should definitely have a vintage pair of some kind of denim. I just think that, like, that elevates a guy's wardrobe tremendously. And that's always my intro tip to somebody. It's just like, just get a vintage pair of jeans and finding them is much easier than I think people realize. And, you know, they're cheaper or they're about the same price as like a modern, much worse quality pair. And the. Even with shipping and everything, like, it's so worth it because if you take an L on it, it's like, who cares? You can sell it or give it to a friend and then just try again and you're gonna find it.
- [16:45]
A
Yeah. Well, I really agree with everything you said, especially the point about buying something pre worn in pre patinaed can be really nice, but there is nothing like patina Ing it yourself. You know, I recently, like a year or two ago, I got a totally dead stock classic French blue chore coat. And it was so. It was so stiff, like, you could just like, set it up and it would just stand up on its own. But I just wore it every day for like six months, and now it's like, perfectly fits me. It's very satisfying feeling. I also have a theory about this, and I want to see if you feel. If you agree and feel free to disagree if you think I'm off here, but I mentioned at the beginning that I think menswear is interesting and distinct from women's fashion in a lot of ways. Like, very, like kind of on a. On a fundamental level, I feel like men's fashion changes slower than women's fashion. I just think there's a. The trend cycle is longer, and even when trends change, they don't change as much as women's fashion. And so there's more vintage stuff out there that's like, not too far off from, like, what still looks good now. And, you know, you kind of alluded to this with, like, if there's a trend, if there's something happening and you want to get in on it, you could probably get something vintage that's fairly close. Do you agree that men's is just kind of like a little bit slower moving, and there's just more options in vintage.
- [18:07]
C
Yeah, I mean, I think the. There are just fewer, like, the palette of like or like, let's say the toolbox is maybe a better analogy. Like, if. If, like all the. If all the garments that the average woman has access to are like tools in a toolbox, it's a much larger toolbox than what, you know, typical men's fashion has. I think that means that the trends are very small variations in, like, in the grand scheme of the theme. So you can very easily have a capsule wardrobe and just, you know, add or take away certain accents and basically stay on the money forever. And, you know, and then also, the thing with men's fashion is. Well, I think now. Excuse me, now, in the Internet age, things can change a little more quickly for guys style, but then it will circle back. You know, the pendulum swings. And I think if you kind of stay in the middle, you're always relevant, and you're always more or less where you need to be. And, like, if something you have feels like it's not super current, but it's a classic piece, just hold onto it, because in two years, maybe you're gonna start seeing it pop up again, you know, so.
- [19:33]
A
And maybe sell it on eBay, and two years later, buy it back or, I don't know, something. No, but I think you're right. And I have to use a somewhat different analogy. I kind of think of it like going to a restaurant with, like, a menu that's 10 pages versus a menu with one page. You know, it's like there's a kind of narrower selection. And also in men's fashion, I think there's, like, a narrow strip of, like, what's kind of stylish at any moment. Like, but the outer extremes are, like, either too avant garde or, like, very out of touch, are not that far from each other. Do you think, though, that that could lead sometimes to a sort of sameness? Like, I've seen some discourse recently about every fashion guy is, like, big pants, black loafers. You know what I mean? Like, that this type of, like, sometimes if the toolbox is small enough, if you're doing something stylish, you're probably going to look not too dissimilar from other people in the same toolbox. You know what I mean?
- [20:30]
C
Yeah. I mean, the sameness is something I don't worry about too much. I think that there is a level of, like, substance to somebody that's wearing stuff they actually care about, they actually wear. That is discernible from somebody who's just, like, copy and pasting that and is just wearing it for the first time out of the house. And so I think that there's, like, a pretty wide gamut that the same quote unquote look can have across a lot of people of varying levels of interest. And, you know, and then there's things like you can have accent pieces that, you know, elevate it, or, you know, also, like, if that big pair of pants is actually vintage or those loafers are ones that you've cooked because you've had them for 10 years, there is something that is 100% more beautiful and interesting about that. I think Blackbird's Biplane wrote about this years ago. I think it was when there was kind of a lot of sneaker stuff still happening. But if two people have the same product, but one person like you has worn their French chore coat for six months, as opposed to the guy who just bought the Palantir chore coat. Right?
- [21:59]
A
Yeah.
- [22:01]
C
Like, you and the chore coat you've had for six months, that's going to register as, like, oh, that's a. That's a. That's a thing. That's a real thing.
- [22:08]
A
Yeah.
- [22:09]
C
And. And I think that's kind of what, like, guys are liking about fashion more is there is a little bit of, like, a blood, sweat, and tears feeling where it's, you know, you. If putting. You can put in work and it can pay off. Whether it's knowing about weird, obscure things or actually wearing your clothes, both those pursuits can pay off in a big way and keep you from looking like a fashion victim.
- [22:39]
A
Yeah. I did wear my chore coat to a bachelor party the other day, and everyone was clowning on me, saying it was the Palantir chore coat. It's not the Palantir chore coat. Just for the record, it does, unfortunately look exactly like it, just without the fascist text written on it. This is something I've thought about a little bit in terms of aesthetics. I think sometimes people try to construct an aesthetic, like, out of nothing. You know, they're like, I want to look like a painter or something, you know, like. And I'm like, those people looked that way because of the life they were living. You know, like, if you're. You could also just live your life and let the aesthetic kind of come from what you're genuinely interested instead of trying to sort of, you know, create something from scratch.
- [23:23]
C
Yeah. I also think that, like, you know, it's really important to think about the context that you're living in. I've had the real luxury and pleasure of getting to travel a lot more over the last year. And it is fun to dress different ways depending on the place you're in. And there's just something about, like, yeah, when you're in Milan, you see these older guys wearing loafers and suits and overcoats, and they're. It's beautiful and perfect. You can't bring that back to la. Cause you're gonna look like a fucking idiot. It's just. You're going to look like you're doing dress up. And so dressing for where you are and your climate, there's like an ease and a. That's also something that I think is important to do and keeps you from looking like you're just copying another person.
- [24:07]
A
Yeah, yeah, definitely that. You don't want to look like you're wearing a costume. And it's a fine line, sometimes glossy. And the podcast is very. We're kind of focused on the business of fashion. And I know you're on the content creator side, but part of the conversation me and my editor and my producer were having about this episode was, if you're a menswear brand, how do you compete with not just other brands active now, but also all of the decades of menswear that's available through, like, we're saying, ebay and thrifting and other things? You're kind of competing across time as well. So just from your perspective, like, are there brands right now who are active now, not vintage, that you are. That you admire or that you think are kind of, like, keeping the quality and, like, might be something that people will buy vintage in 20 years or something? I mean, what brands are exciting you who are active right now?
- [25:03]
C
Oh, man. I mean, if you touch anything from William Ellery, you're like. There was a minute where I was thinking about starting a brand and I was like, taking the meetings and trying to make samples, and it was the first time that William Ellery ever sent me a box and I picked it all up and I was like, there's no reason for me to do this.
- [25:23]
A
It's not going to be as nice.
- [25:24]
C
Yeah, no. And I mean, it's something where you pick it up and it's like, this is the weight and heft and fit of, like. And quality of a vintage piece. But he does have a real whimsy and I like that. I don't really. Well, actually, I know the brand is called William Ellery. I don't know a whole lot more. I don't know who actually is sending me things. There's kind of like a.
- [25:47]
A
Is there a real William Ellery or is this a fictional character?
- [25:52]
C
Yeah, it's sort of like, you know, those vintage pieces in a kind of like a little bit like Wes Anderson kind of world. So I really, really like the. The work that they're doing over there. I also have been really impressed by here in la, the brand, the hidden rivet. They've really galvanized a kind of new generation of younger denim heads. And I feel like when I was coming up and that was a thing, the people who were into it just seemed so dorky. It was like. It was kind of like a nerd thing. And I know that it is still, like, there's a nerdiness level, but the kids that are into it now just look so cool. And a lot of the cool kids that look that way, it's because they're wearing a pair of hidden rivet because the quality is there and the fit is really. It's not always my. The fits aren't always to my liking, but I think it's really exceptional stuff, quality wise. Gosh, who else is doing it really well?
- [26:59]
A
While you're thinking, I did just Google William Ellery, and it says that William Ellery was born in 1727 and is one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence. So unless there's another William Ellery, it might just be the name of the company. I'm not 100% sure, though.
- [27:14]
C
No, he's like a Rip Van Winkle figure, and he started a brand.
- [27:17]
A
He's still kicking,
- [27:21]
C
man. I'm trying to think what else is really special? Oh, I recently discovered Lee Archives, which is the Japanese license for Li jeans. And I don't want to say any more bad things about Lee, the American Lee brand, because I'm afraid they'll get mad at me. But I believe it's a brand, Japanese brand, Edwin, that is making this stuff. Son of a Stag carries some. You can find it secondhand or if you have the luxury of being in Japan, but it's like some of the nicest reproduction denim that I've had the opportunity to wear. And it's super classic, but sometimes when you go super, super vintage with jeans, they look kind of. They either look blah or they look silly. And a lot of the 40s, 50s and 60s Lee Styles just look kind of sexy, and they're just great fits. So I'm liking that a lot.
- [28:21]
A
No, That's a good spread. And it does feel like a lot of the brands that are capturing your attention, and I think these are brands that are capturing a lot of people's attention, do have some of that same essence of some of the brands that are the vintage brands that are still popular, which we should say a lot of the brands that people are buying vintage are still around and still killing it. Like Ralph Lauren, for example. What's your take on. And I don't know if you saw much about this. I feel like it's just starting to break containment. But there's the brand Evan Connory. I feel like there has been a serious turning on Evan Connory, the subreddit dedicated to the Throwing Fits podcast. The people on there have been, there have been posts every single day kind of hating on Evan Connorian. I've seen it covered on a couple different substacks and other places recently. It seems the essence of the criticism that I've seen is that the, I don't know, a combination of criticizing the pretension of the kind of philosophy behind the brand, but also just the price in comparison to the quality. There was an extremely in depth, full takedown on this subreddit. I'm going to read just one sentence from it and then I'd like to hear your thoughts. But accumulation, It's a very eloquently written post. Accumulation gets conflated with connoisseurship and owning multiple versions of essentially the same garment no longer reads as overconsumption because each variation comes with its own story about weave, hand feel, drape, irregularity, or some obscure mill relationship that supposedly justifies the difference. Quite scathing, but I don't know. Do you have any opinion, not necessarily on this specific brand, Evan Connor, but why? Why did people turn on that brand and brands like it, in your opinion?
- [30:12]
C
Well, I read that too and I thought it was a little bit silly of a. You know, it's like I think that brands like Evan Connor are good for the overall health of the menswear space. And like, even if I don't love them personally or like feel like a compunction to wear them, I think that their longevity and existence is healthy for the state of things. I do think that part of the issue about the smaller toolbox of men's fashion is that because there are so few ways to break out of the box, there is a lot of ego embedded in kind of like how well can I dress, how like, you know, how well can I spend my money, how like, you know, and it Feels like Evan Connor's biggest crime is just because of their location in San Francisco, a lot of, like, unlikable people have started to wear it. And that is. But that is the nature of any trend. And I think that's when people turn against something is because whatever the thing was about a brand that you identified with, people that you no longer identify with start to also latch onto that until you feel like, sort of de. Centered from whatever it was about the brand that you liked. And, you know, and that's the price of. That's literally the price of doing business. That's the price of being a successful brand. Is that whatever that thing was other people are gonna like more. I think that there's kind of like a Dunning Kruger effect. Are you familiar with that?
- [32:06]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [32:07]
C
There's kind of like, I'm an expert on this.
- [32:09]
A
No, just kidding.
- [32:10]
C
There you go. There is a quality of that to the men's fashion space. And I think fashion in general, I think people are so used to being ripped off that. And again, I'm not the most well versed in Evan Connory's offerings or the philosophy behind the manufacturing, whatever. But I think there is this idea that some consumers feel very certain that they're being ripped off. And it's like, I encourage them to start a brand. I encourage them to try and make something in Italy or in Japan or here and see where that gets them. There is kind of like a petulant hating from outside the club energy I get from that particular essay that I think is pretty whiny. And I get it. I mean, it's really easy to make fun of Evan Connory because, like, I think my friend Jake Wolf has called it, like, garden gnome clothes. And yeah, I've alternately called it, like, surf core, SCRF core, but, like. But I can't hate the guy. Cause it's like, he's doing it. He's making stuff that's good. I mean, like, meanwhile, Dove Charney is allowed to be around, you know, teenage models again, right? Like, and then. But this guy's making expensive clothes and we're pissed about it. Like, get a fucking grip.
- [33:48]
A
The crime of making a nice shirt and charging for it. I mean, to your point about if you started a brand, you'd have a different mindset. It's like, I think if you start to look into the actual production materials, you'd be like, every shirt should cost $1,000. Like, to make any money on it.
- [34:04]
C
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think there's so much. And I think Dunning Kruger is the right thing to think of because it is sort of like vaccine denial where it's like, I know better than you.
- [34:19]
A
I've done my research. Evan Connory.
- [34:21]
C
Yeah, yeah. I've gone on the subreddit and I have, you know, but like there are so many corny, horrible brands at any given moment that are exploiting people and really causing problems. And obviously like people are like, people have completely forgotten about the LA Apparel stuff and now they're just, I mean, formerly American Apparel, every like hot person on my feed has now endorsed LA Apparel and LA apparel has DMed me, asking me to come in and shop and I'm like, don't get the fuck away from me.
- [34:58]
A
Yeah.
- [34:59]
C
People have short memories away from me. Yeah, yeah. And like, you know, that's like an organization that's propped up by a person that did really bad things. Allegedly did really bad things.
- [35:13]
A
And.
- [35:14]
C
But I think, cause it's a certain price point and because it still has really mastered the marketing of like hot girls on posters and a certain amount of quote unquote, like ethics in their factory, they're going to, you know, they're going to be free of this kind of criticism until the next horrible thing comes to light. And then I really encourage people to follow the sustainable fashion friend on Instagram. She's awesome and she's done so many awesome takedowns of brands that are really doing devious shit. And until somebody can show me that Evan Connory has, you know, unless they
- [35:56]
A
can trigger child labor or something.
- [35:57]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or like, yeah, once they can tell me where the bodies are buried at the Evan Connory store, I'm not really going to be able to hate on him. And I think it's fun as a bit, but like I think it's more a reaction against the conventional menswear media, which is really annoying a lot of the time. And like the magazines, the substacks and there is an out of touchness I think if you're going on and on and on about it. He's a niche designer, he's catering to a niche, he's making nice things. I don't need them. And then I don't want to cop out here. But it kind of comes down to just the state of capitalism in our country that there is this immense divide. There is no way for regular people to go to a store and for a reasonable price have something that is nice and ethical. Like ethical clothing is now reserved for the extremely wealthy and the people that are willing to drop $700 on a shirt.
- [37:01]
A
Yeah. This is all. I think you put it very eloquently, and I think there's a little bit of herd mentality, too.
- [37:08]
C
Of.
- [37:08]
A
There was one post saying, anyone think Evan Connery is overhyped? And then I think people kind of hopped on it. I do think it has led to some pretty good roasts, though. I have in my notes here paying $2.8K to look disheveled at Da Natural Wine Bar. That did get a laugh out of me. But I think you're right. There are far worse crimes in fashion.
- [37:31]
C
Yeah. This is how I felt about Bodhi. You know, like, it just felt like it got so much love, so much hype, and it just. I didn't connect with the aesthetic at all. And I was kind of like, where. Like, where is this coming from? But I think, like, if you pull back and, like, you touch grass and talk to your friends that aren't into this, you kind of. Your blood pressure goes down because they're like, evan who? Bodhi? What?
- [37:59]
A
As soon as you start explaining some online outrage to somebody, you sound so. Like, it sounds so pathetic, and you. You drop it.
- [38:07]
C
Yeah. And to me, it just feels like these are the kinds of things that, like, happen to a bunch of guys living in New York that are around a bunch of other guys living in New York who are all spending too much money on stuff, and, like, they're getting flustered because another guy has the thing that they like.
- [38:21]
A
Yeah. And they're, like, revving each other up about it. No, I think that's very true. I could talk for three more hours with you about menswear, but we should start wrapping up. But I wanted to ask you one final thing, because you mentioned, you know, that you toyed with the idea of starting a brand, and I know that you have collaborated with some other brands in the past. If you were to start a brand, if. Or if you went further into that side of things, how would you incorporate some of the stuff we've been talking about? And, like, what would be. Like, what would you make and what would your messaging around it be to kind of avoid some of the pitfalls we've just discussed? I don't know how much thought you've given this.
- [39:01]
C
Yeah. I mean, the dream, like, the big, big dream, if I had unlimited money, would be to reopen some mill and some factory in some neglected, currently neglected place in our country and basically just make, like, super regular straight leg jeans and chinos and sell them at hardware stores and not market them. And Just have them out there. And I'm sure people will think that in its own way is pretentious, but I think that that's like my experience of I started getting into this stuff by going to army surplus stores and buying just what the stuff they had there. And I think for a lot of people, that was how you got a good pair of pants. And now to have something of that quality, you have to become basically a professor of weird online subcultures. And yeah, so I would just love to make really simple straight on the money work clothes that people could ideally actually work in. Or yeah, they could wear it to their fake email job or to like, you know, clown on. Clown on. The Evan Connery guy at the cafe or whatever.
- [40:30]
A
Yeah, wearing your hardware store straight leg jeans. No, but I do think that taps into something and then we really should wrap up. But this final point I mentioned earlier that I think your content and your writing and your videos taps into this. I think there's a type of menswear person who is a nerd and is really into the technical stuff and maybe doesn't care as much about marketing. They want to feel like they've discovered something or they care more about this is a loop wheel construction with no seams or that's made with this. But, you know, I feel like there is a demand for that, particularly in menswear and definitely in women's too. Do you feel like that's something you sense both from your followers but also like other menswear people, that there is beyond the Evan Connory haters who are maybe to up their own ass that they're, as a menswear consumer who genuinely is just like, I care about the quality and that's really all that matters.
- [41:24]
C
Yeah. Well, I think it's a really important permission structure for men. I think a lot of us were raised to feel like clothing was not our domain. It was not something that we were supposed to be thinking about or interested in. And there are all kinds of epithets and insults directed at guys that care about clothing then and now. And I think it's funny to criticize the details because I think that is the way that you can get somebody invested in what is basically just self expression. But I think by giving them these terms and these histories and it's how I got into it, sort of allowed me permission to try something different. Cause, yeah, if you wear a pair. The first time I wore straight leg jeans, which is in the skinny jean era, my friends that were very nice to me even then were like Suddenly extremely critical, making fun of me. And so it can be scary to actually try and better yourself and express yourself through clothing and kind of having this arsenal of facts is, I think, a nice security blanket. Because it's hard to just be like, well, I like it. It's easier to say. It's easier to say, well, yeah, the fabric was made here. And it's kind of an allusion to this thing that I've always thought is cool. And that is a good way to. You know, because guys love specs. You know, dudes love that stuff. But, yeah, it's a little too vulnerable to just walk out into the world and say, I got this because I am trying something new.
- [43:07]
A
Right. It's easier to be like, no, you don't understand. The stats are better.
- [43:13]
C
Yeah, yeah, no, yeah. Pound for pound, this is a better product. Fewer people are getting hurt. I'm actually a good, cool person because I spent a couple hundred bucks on it. So I think it's important as long as you, at the end of the day, are aware that it's about creativity and expression and you are able to be vulnerable with your own self about that, I think. Because if it's only about the specs and the quality, then that's a little bit like. That's a little bit like, probably why Mark Zuckerberg has gone into Bodhi or, sorry, into Evan Connery. That's a little extreme, but I think the right amount of that is good.
- [43:53]
A
Yeah, I think you're right. It's funny to imagine men who are like, oh, you think my pants look stupid? What if I told you it was made on a machine that doesn't even exist anymore? It's like, that shows you how, you know, instead of just being like, I'm wearing it because I like it. Okay. We covered so much ground. This was a great conversation. Albert, thank you so much for coming on the Glossy Podcast and answering all of our questions.
- [44:16]
C
Oh, yeah, thank you so much for having me.
- [44:21]
A
And thank you for listening to the Glossy Podcast. Don't forget to give us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, wherever you listen to this, because. Because that helps us out so much. And don't forget to subscribe to the Glossy Podcast to hear interviews with industry insiders and weekend review segments where we break down the news. The new episodes come out every Friday. Until the next time, thanks for listening.