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- [00:24]
A
Should we talk about Salty Dog and Pals?
- [00:26]
B
Oh, let's do it.
- [00:28]
A
Yeah.
- [00:28]
C
I want to know how you two wrote Salty Dog together, because you're making great claims of writing it in 10 minutes flat, which I know is a big Salty exaggeration.
- [00:38]
A
Who told you that?
- [00:38]
B
Ten stories in ten minutes. How to go and tell them, Katie. Step one, lie about it. We didn't.
- [00:49]
C
Where did Salty Dog come from, though, first of all?
- [00:52]
B
So when we were doing the picture book course, I can't really remember how we came up with the idea or even if it was me, but we did. I don't think it was, but I think we decided it. Oh, we just needed some branding for the picture book course because you'd done all the branding for Freak Flag. We were about to do the picture book course and we needed it to. It was your course.
- [01:13]
C
Yeah. It needed to be from your hand.
- [01:15]
B
Yeah. So wanted it to have the same feel and colour palette as Good Ship, but have my drawing in it because I was Picture book person.
- [01:26]
C
And you love a dog, don't you? You love dogs.
- [01:28]
B
I love dogs. I can't really remember how I first drew Salty. I have forgotten.
- [01:33]
A
He just appeared.
- [01:35]
B
He just appeared, didn't he?
- [01:36]
C
He's so sweet. He's got a little red patch on his eye.
- [01:39]
B
He got a little red patch on his eye. He looks a little bit like Sooty, actually, from Sooty and Sweep, which I didn't think about at the time. I didn't think about it until I'd drawn him a few times. And then I remember showing Alice our Good Ship lifeguard and she said, oh, he reminds me of Sooty. And he does, actually. He's a bit like Sooty. He has a little band of friends on the Good Ship version of Salty. He has three or four ducks follow him around and he's friends with a couple of cats. So, yeah, I drew him on Procreate because all of this would be digital material, it would all be on screen. So I drew it all on Procreate. And he's really useful in the course, isn't he? He guides everybody through it.
- [02:20]
A
I was gonna say he was. He is a really handy mascot because it makes it much easier to boss people around. Be like, so it's not us. Salty says.
- [02:28]
B
Yeah, there was a time where people, when we first launched, where people were sharing aspects of the course online on Instagram, basically giving the course away. And so we made a little image of Salty with a big book of instructions, putting out instructions about not sharing the briefs and stuff. Like that.
- [02:45]
C
But he's really good because he creates the vibe of Picture Book World rather than, okay, I'm a serious adult and I'm going to talk to you about creating a magical children's world. Salty's already there, so you've got the full immersion of, like, from the get go, we are in pretend magical world, the little toy dog. So the mindset is not that dual mindset of being rational, but creative and playful and childlike. Childlike from the get go.
- [03:10]
B
I remember at one point showing you the drawings, Tanya, and you came back and loved all the characters, but you said, let's mess about with the colour palette. Look at this gorgeous print by Bernard Cheese. Or you sent maybe three or four gorgeous prints that had an amazing colour palette and would link really nicely with the colour palette that you'd already designed for Freak Flag. Do you remember this?
- [03:34]
C
I do remember the Bernard Cheese print.
- [03:36]
B
Yeah. And I really loved that and ran with that. Just used the eyedropper tool in Procreate and just stole that palette. But then that meant that Salty's little friend, the first duck, was Bernard. I thought, I've got to name that duck Bernard now after Bernard Cheese.
- [03:52]
C
I didn't know.
- [03:53]
A
That's why he's called Bernard.
- [03:54]
B
He's called Bernard after Bernard Cheese.
- [03:56]
C
What?
- [03:56]
B
Yeah.
- [03:57]
C
And that's Chloe Cheese's dad.
- [03:59]
B
Chloe Cheese's dad. I actually told Chloe Cheese, but she never replied. Yeah. Oh, by the way, I've got this little character called Bernard and it's because I really love your dad's color palette.
- [04:10]
C
His screen prints are so beautiful. Yeah.
- [04:13]
B
Oh, God, they go al. Our Alice owns one of those.
- [04:16]
C
Does she?
- [04:16]
B
One of the beautiful ones. Looking from above onto the little harbor. Looks like Holy Island. Looking from above onto some little red boats.
- [04:26]
C
I've got a few of those on Pinterest. I'd love to buy Burn and cheeseburger.
- [04:30]
B
Me too.
- [04:30]
C
Anyway, back to Salty. So he was.
- [04:35]
B
We printed out. I made like a little thumbnail printout to go in the picture book course.
- [04:39]
A
It's a freebie you can get, actually,
- [04:40]
B
if you go on my website.
- [04:42]
A
It's a picture book template for laying out your story. Yeah. Helen was filling it in. And you just.
- [04:46]
B
Did you. I said, I think Katie said, oh, we could do with a little film of you using the thumbnail template for the website, so everybody knows what you can use it for. So I set the camera up above, pressed record, sat down and thought, oh, right, what am I going to draw? Oh, I know. I'll just draw Salty and So I made instantly there and then a little story of Salty and thought, oh, this could be a book idea actually, and sent it immediately there and then to Walker saying, oh, look, I. Salty might be a character. And they sent smiley emojis. They didn't send me a contract.
- [05:26]
A
It's the next best thing.
- [05:27]
B
They were just like, yeah, could be. Yeah, well done, Helen. Pat on there.
- [05:31]
C
Pat, Pat.
- [05:33]
B
And months went by, didn't really think about it again. And then I thought it would be really good fun writing with Katie because we all write together on the Good Ship quite a lot. Then we write all sorts of emails and bits and bobs together and when we're writing course content, it's just so much easier with friends. We just have such a nice time doing it and, and that's how I
- [05:54]
A
work in the Good Ship. We're all in one Google Doc, like sometimes all, sometimes four of us even. We're all tippy, tapping, adding bits.
- [06:01]
C
It's such a good system. It's so basic, isn't it? It's so low tech. Like most of our good chip chat is WhatsApp. We do lots of big things via WhatsApp. And then when we have to really work the course out, it's just sitting on a Google Doc together pretending there's a ghost in there.
- [06:16]
B
Yeah. Who's writing. You can see everybody else type in their sentences while you type in your own thing.
- [06:21]
C
Did you use this system then to write something?
- [06:24]
B
So you. We decided we'd have a go at writing some stories together. Oh, I know what happened first. Walker sent me some stories by somebody else and they said, we're going to publish these in the same format as Bear and Bird by Jarvis. And I already had some of the Bear and Bird books and really loved them and thought, oh, that's interesting. They want to do more in that area of that format. And I read the stories and I did like the stories, but I also, I just prefer things to come out my own head. And so I thought, okay, they're interested in that area. I love Bear and Bird. I think I could do something like that but be way more fun if I asked Katie to do it with me. So I said to Walker, I'm not going to do these, but how about Katie and I do something with Salty? And I thought they might be worried about using Salty because he's already on our website, but they weren't bothered about that at all.
- [07:19]
C
What's going back to the Jarvis book? What is that format called? Because it's not like your Normal picture book, is it?
- [07:25]
A
It's a bit older, isn't it?
- [07:26]
B
It's a bit older than a picture book, but it's younger than a chapter book. It's like in between. It's a new format.
- [07:33]
C
So it's not a chapter book.
- [07:34]
B
It has four separate stories in it. But a chapter book would be a smaller scale, usually in black and white. This is full color and it's not big, smaller than a picture book, but bigger than a chapter book.
- [07:46]
A
Yeah, it's like a skinny, tall, full colour thing.
- [07:50]
C
It's the perfect. So the illustrations are scattered throughout the text, but they're not big. Full page bleeds now and again.
- [07:57]
B
There's a double page spread. There's probably eight in the whole book, double page spreads, but the rest are vignettes and half pages.
- [08:05]
C
It feels like quite an old fashioned format, doesn't it? You think it was like it. It's been popular before but discarded and now resurrected.
- [08:13]
B
That's exactly it. I think I've got lots of vintage books in that format from the 60s and 70s, but they've not been done for a long time.
- [08:21]
C
It's nice because it goes back to drawing again, doesn't it? Rather than full colour images. That format of picture book with vignettes brings back maybe spot colour with a little bit of drawing rather than big full painted, whether they're digitally or analog painted. Double page spreads. It's a different way of working. Sorry, I brought you train of thought there.
- [08:41]
B
Yeah, we got together, I said to Walker, do you like the sound of that? And they said yes. So we started writing, didn't we?
- [08:48]
A
Yeah. Got together at your kitchen table and just wrote stories. Really collect things during the week and be like, watch this. It's funny. Have you seen this person? Look at this. Oh my God. This is a story.
- [09:00]
B
Yeah. This is an embarrassing fact, but ever since lockdown, I've done the Joel Wicks workout every morning, which was for kids in lockdown.
- [09:11]
C
Are you still doing it?
- [09:12]
B
Yeah.
- [09:14]
A
Six years old.
- [09:15]
C
I thought it was Slimsia bread.
- [09:19]
B
And there was. I was watching that and I listened to the same ones a lot because I do it really regularly. And he doesn't record new ones a lot. And lots of them were done for kids. And he says things like, okay, we'll have six Spider man nunchas. Do it at your own pace. Keep up, go faster. There's mixed messages all the time of do it at your own pace, go faster. And I got really obsessed with this. And I think the first story we wrote was about that was Salty running an exercise class, wasn't it?
- [09:51]
A
That was a brilliant one. That one must be in book two, because this first book that's coming out,
- [09:54]
B
it's in the pile that we didn't use in the first book. I think we will use it, though. It was one of my favourites. I think we'll come back to it.
- [10:01]
A
It's got to be in there.
- [10:02]
B
Yeah. You'd remember things that your little girl had said during the week and she
- [10:09]
A
would have been two when we were first writing. She's nearly four now. That's how long it all takes.
- [10:14]
B
So it start it. We just mushed up memories, things our kids said, things we saw online. Smooshed it all together. If it made us laugh, it was in.
- [10:27]
C
But did. Did you already know where Salty lived and his world and his friends? Did you have that all set and then impose the stories and the funniest into that, or did you?
- [10:37]
B
No, no, that's a good point.
- [10:39]
A
Because we had all the stories mashed together. We wrote as many as we could, I think like 10 or 12 or something, and then went to London to meet the Walker Books people. And they had such good feedback and that was basically it. Can you flesh out the characters and make sure.
- [10:54]
B
They sent us a fantastic list of questions. Really good list of questions on the train. And we sat on the train brainstorming all of that. And those questions were so useful. And they were things like, have they always lived together? Because in the end it's Bernard, a duck, Salty Dog and their friend Kitty, based on Tanya. We'll come back to that. She's a cat and who's a cat? And they ask questions like, have they always lived together? Where do they live? Have they always lived there?
- [11:22]
C
Is it the getting to know your character?
- [11:23]
A
That's the one, yes.
- [11:24]
B
Shall I read the list out?
- [11:26]
C
Yeah, because it's really good. Where does your character live? Who lives with them? Who lives nearby? Who visits? Have they ever been in trouble and how would they react? Where do they visit regularly? The park, the beach, Grandma's pottery class, the cafe, the theatre, the city? Do they have a hobby? How do they speak? Who do they remind you of? Is there a celebrity character or a celebrity or a character in a novel that reminds you of your character? What are they scared of? How do they relax? What do they like or not like to eat? When you know your character, your story
- [11:57]
B
writes yourself and that seems that to be true.
- [12:00]
A
Yeah. Once we'd really nailed all those things, all we did was plonk the characters in different scenarios. And we're like, obviously Kitty would stick her head out the window and be like, woo, it's raining.
- [12:10]
B
And Bernard would be like, oh, it's raining, I'm gonna get wet. Shut the window. Because Bernard is a very nervy character. Like, he's a duck. He's highly strong. He's a bit nervy and has very particular interests. Like, he absolutely loves his book about France, doesn't he?
- [12:30]
A
Everything has to be done correctly.
- [12:33]
C
Yeah, he likes. Doesn't he like cashmere as well?
- [12:36]
B
He has a cashmere blanket and a teddy bear and he loves his knickknacks. He's always sorting out his various knickknacks.
- [12:44]
A
Quite sensitive as well.
- [12:45]
B
He's very sensitive. He gets overwhelmed very easily and he's also very polite and likes things done a certain way. So in my head, when I first started drawing him, I was thinking of William Hansen, the etiquette coach on Instagram, and he has all sorts of etiquette lessons. If you want to pick a bag up off the floor, you must bend at. Now, do you bend with your knees or your hips? I've forgotten your knees. You keep your arm and your body dead straight. You bend your knees until your hand touches the top of the back and then lift it up.
- [13:22]
A
I always think about him when I eat peas because you stab a few peas and eat it with your fork the right way around. You don't shovel the peas, you're not
- [13:28]
B
allowed to shuffle them. You're not allowed to turn your fork the other way up and use it like spoon.
- [13:32]
A
I know my peace of mind is over.
- [13:35]
B
He has very particular way of eating a banana, but I've forgotten that now. But he's really camp and he's so funny. So he was one influence on Bernard. What was the other one?
- [13:46]
A
The other one. I know Cameron, I'll never listen to this. Some say my husband is also a heavy influence of Bernard because, yeah, Cameron likes things done correctly and he's very set in his ways and traditional.
- [13:57]
B
Also, you sent as a the group chat a fantastic picture of Edith with a massive photography book on her knee.
- [14:04]
C
Yeah.
- [14:05]
B
And Cameron, this is. I think this is where the book about France started because Cameron has a really good book collection, doesn't he? And he's very particular and he likes photography. And I can't really remember where the book about France started, but I feel like that came from Cameron or your little girl as well.
- [14:22]
A
And I had it when I was packing for bologna. Maybe it was two years ago when we all Went last time because we were all there two years ago and a book about France, like a translation book, phrases fell into my suitcase. So that was sort of in the back of my mind. Like that book is funny old 80s translation book.
- [14:39]
B
And then for Kitty. We knew that Kitty because she's the female character. We really didn't want her to be like the mum of the book. It'd be too easy and too boring if she was the one, I don't know, made their picnic, put a plaster on their knee if something happened. We really were resistant for her being that character.
- [15:02]
A
And I also didn't want her to be like a little girl. Oh, I'm just a girl.
- [15:05]
B
Yeah.
- [15:05]
C
Rubbish.
- [15:06]
B
Yeah. So we decided that Kitty would be Tanya because Tanya tells us so many stories about her reckless. Reckless. Oh, how to put it? Just like a reckless love for life that got her into all sorts of scrapes.
- [15:25]
C
I feel so honoured. There's a famous punk called Reckless Eric. I used to I think in Jury Rough Trade Records or something. So I can be Reckless Tanya.
- [15:35]
B
Yeah. And Tanya has her. Your punk days as well. And the time. No, I'm not gonna say it. I'm not sure if we're allowed to on a podcast.
- [15:43]
A
I think it'll.
- [15:44]
B
Yeah.
- [15:45]
C
Put it in the next Salty book.
- [15:47]
B
Yeah. In the Deliberate Behavior. So yeah, Kitty's based on Tanya and. Oh yes. So then we realized we'd really. Because we felt like we knew Salty inside out. We'd worked out consciously who Kitty and Bernard were, but we hadn't gone back to Salty and had another look and really looked to make sure we knew who he was. So then he read us quite dry and a bit characterless, didn't he?
- [16:13]
A
Then it sort of faded into the background because in our minds we're just like always level headed and he keeps everybody straight. But that's all we'd thought.
- [16:20]
B
And Walker gave us a little prod and said, what are his hobbies? What's his personality? And that was easy because we knew them, but we just hadn't spoken about it. We're like, he's an artist, he's a chef, he's an all round creative, he's a sculptor, he makes music, he likes hoisting the flag. He's Johnny Hanna. Yeah.
- [16:39]
A
And he's like the voice of reason, but not in a bossy, annoying way. If things are going wrong, he'll be like, we'll just sort this out.
- [16:45]
B
Come on. He's calm and nothing ruffles his feathers much.
- [16:51]
C
But they all live in this like Multiple occupancy house, which is actually an upside down boat in Lindisfarne. How did that come about?
- [17:00]
B
That's because Lindisfarne is near us, isn't it? And as the good ship, we'd been there, we had a photo session there. It's just part of our. It's just near where we live.
- [17:11]
C
Stays out, isn't it?
- [17:12]
B
Stays out. When Mum and Dad visit, we always go there. We look at the upturned boats.
- [17:16]
A
It's tidal, so you can only get on and off the island when the tide is right. So like the sea covers the causeway, which is really cool.
- [17:23]
B
I would love to live there. I would love.
- [17:26]
C
I'm amazed you haven't managed to get in one of those upturn boats.
- [17:29]
B
It's still my ambition. They have these upturn boats where they've chopped a boat in half across the Acro. Don't know any boat terms.
- [17:39]
A
Sidey ways.
- [17:40]
B
Sidey ways. And put a door on the end, turned it upside down and they used them as sheds and they've got loads of fishing tackle outside. They are so inviting. And they remind me of my grandma and granddad. After the war, they had nowhere to live and they squatted in a Nissen hut. And a Nissen hut is very similar, but much bigger. It's a corrugated iron tube, basically, that the army used to make barracks for the army. I'm wording this incredibly badly, but after the war, when people had nowhere to live, when all the soldiers came home and there was a lack of housing in the uk, they put up loads of prefab buildings and people squatted wherever they could. My grandma and granddad heard that on a local airfield that day, people were taking all their stuff, grabbing a Nissan hut and squatting in them. So they got all their stuff together and walked out the sort of six miles out of Darlington, found a Nissan hut and lived in it for a few years. And there's some children in there.
- [18:43]
C
Tell them what the Nissan hut is like because it's a bit like the boat, isn't it? It's a cross section semicircle.
- [18:48]
B
Exactly. Yeah.
- [18:50]
C
Because they just bend over corrugated iron.
- [18:54]
B
Yeah.
- [18:54]
C
To make a kind of arc shape
- [18:56]
B
and that's seal off the front must have been freezing. But I know that my grandad put a stove in it and I know that because one of the family tales is that when my grandma's mum came to visit, he didn't like her. So he climbed up on the roof of the Nissenhook with a brick that he wrapped in A cardigan or something and dropped it down into the stove and the soot went everywhere and covered her in soot. And she was really angry.
- [19:22]
C
It's quite a long winded way to get rid of someone, isn't it? He's really committed.
- [19:27]
B
It's not a man who expressed himself with words ever. Sabotage was. He was kind of silently angry. Yeah. We tried to get that in one of the stories but we just couldn't get it to work, could we?
- [19:40]
A
We tried so hard. That was one where we kept coming back to it every week and we were like, maybe change this bit and it'll be like it was a bit closer.
- [19:46]
B
It was strangely violent. Like that story is always told in my family. Like this really funny thing that happened. But when you think about it, it's not very nice. It's not very nice, is it? I reckon that's why we couldn't get to work because what if was the fire lit and did like flotash come out and. Yeah, so I reckon I'd not really thought about it until recently. So I think that was quite a violent action and that's why we couldn't get it to work in the story.
- [20:13]
C
Because families chuckle about really violent to normalize it, don't they? So never mind. That's just one of our ancestor histories.
- [20:19]
B
He was such a repressed and angry man that he couldn't say to her that he needed her to go home. So he did this terrible thing and we'll all just laugh about it.
- [20:26]
A
Always grand. Yeah, because we were trying to imagine Bernard polishing the silver and stuff afterwards. But it all just felt a bit sad.
- [20:33]
B
It just wouldn't work.
- [20:34]
C
Would it be like, that is so screwed up.
- [20:37]
B
Therapy.
- [20:38]
C
No, he wouldn't speak like that, would it? She got the house and the place and the flatmates.
- [20:45]
B
We knew that they were going to have flags just because when I was making sketches I just kept drawing flags all the time. Going back to my love of making flags. I think it's good flag weather. Yeah.
- [20:57]
C
It's always windy on Linda's farm, isn't it?
- [20:59]
B
Always windy and flags and kites. When you're down there, you can hear all the rigging in the boats, like rattling and making nice noise and I felt like flags would have that nice noise of ropes and stuff.
- [21:11]
C
Was it easier to write then because you've got all this kind of visceral stuff. Visceral memories of noises like that and the feelings of the place and the windiness.
- [21:19]
B
Yeah.
- [21:19]
C
Then that fed the stories because they would always Impact on. Because there's a good story about flying a kite, isn't there? I love that story.
- [21:26]
B
Yeah. Yeah. We would say we wrote a couple of stories and then tried to think of titles and we thought of a title for one of them, which was something like, it was a Windy Day on the island. And once we had that title, we then said maybe every story should start with, it was a Day on the Island. So then we brainstormed, what day is it? A windy day. A foggy day. A bath time day. A tidying up type day. Let's get fit kind of day. Can't remember. Let Soup day.
- [22:04]
A
Yeah. But it was good to have that, like, structure around it. We know that is how the story starts.
- [22:09]
B
I think there's one in the archive we haven't used yet about porridge, saying it was a porridge day on the island or something.
- [22:15]
C
It's so homely. It feels really homely when you read through them.
- [22:19]
B
So the titles helped us, didn't they? Yeah, we'd think of a good title and then try and work backwards.
- [22:25]
C
Did you ever start with the pictures? Because I'm looking at the sketchbook.
- [22:28]
B
Yeah.
- [22:29]
C
There's so many lovely pictures of them in the boat at night, being all cosy and in the bunk beds. And did your visuals come?
- [22:37]
B
Yeah, they did sometimes, didn't they? Yeah.
- [22:39]
A
You would sometimes have a pile of
- [22:41]
B
sketches that you'd done during the week. I would then start drawing again and then Katie would come back and we'd look at the drawings and they'd trigger new ideas. So it was like back and forth. Yeah. But also I was ready to just dismiss any drawing at a whim because I'd done so many. Didn't matter if it became a story or not. Do you know what I mean? I didn't want to say I drew this. Katie, you.
- [23:05]
A
I feel like it was the same about the stories, that even though we'd made up the stories, none of them were, like, essential.
- [23:10]
B
No.
- [23:10]
A
So if a story wasn't quite working, like the sooty chimney one, we're just. Okay, leave it in the pile, move on. We've got 12 more.
- [23:17]
C
It's a good approach, but you wrote it quite quickly, didn't you? How long do you think it took from.
- [23:22]
B
I reckon we met up about 10 times. Yeah. 10 minutes. For a minute. I think we got together at my table maybe 10 times for a couple of hours and came out with 10 stories. Yeah.
- [23:37]
C
That's amazing. 10 stories. So one per session. You had a high success rate.
- [23:42]
B
I'm not saying they were all brilliant, were they?
- [23:44]
A
They were perfect.
- [23:46]
C
And what did the editors think? Was the editing process really important?
- [23:50]
A
It was amazing because we got the stories to a point where we're like, yeah, they're cool, but they're still making us laugh and they're still making us feel the nice feelings we'll send off. And then when Walker sent them back after editing, it was just like, I don't even know what they did. It just made it shiny and they
- [24:06]
B
like sprinkle magic on it, don't they?
- [24:08]
A
Yeah, I was like, oh, it's really funny now.
- [24:11]
B
Yeah, they were just every now and again say, can you just exaggerate this bit?
- [24:16]
A
Yeah, they're like tighten bits up and exaggerate bits and just.
- [24:19]
B
They didn't do a lot. I really like that phrase that my other editor, Alison Green from Scrollastic, she uses the phrase about me, I am the butter. And she's patting me into shape. And that's exactly what Walker did, isn't it? It's a bit gently, you know, when
- [24:36]
A
you take a photo and you edit it and you just change the contrast a bit and up the. You just make felt a bit like that made the white proper white color.
- [24:45]
B
And then I remember when you bought
- [24:47]
C
it back and you laid it all on the kitchen table and did the run through. I was just roaring with laughter. It was so funny.
- [24:54]
B
I love it when Katie reads them out.
- [24:55]
A
Yes.
- [24:56]
B
So good. Katie's voice reading them out is just
- [24:58]
C
so delightful because Katie seems actually surprised
- [25:02]
B
at what's about to happen.
- [25:03]
C
Like she didn't know any of it.
- [25:04]
B
She's forgotten what happened.
- [25:06]
A
The joys of no memory.
- [25:09]
C
So it's going to Bologna. It's ready now, isn't it? It is booked. It's a book.
- [25:13]
B
It's ready. They come out in May.
- [25:16]
A
Yeah, I think it's the 7th of May. Let me see. But if you do a pre order, you get a free picture book work masterclass makes it more exciting.
- [25:24]
C
I'm looking at the master class now. Master, Master class.
- [25:28]
B
Master class. Here we go.
- [25:31]
C
So brilliant. There's so many amazing pictures. And I shouldn't say this because you think I'm bigging you up, but I just love all the sketchbook initial drawings of the first pictures of Salty when he was a mere brand within good shape. And then he bust out of the course to become a fully fledged dog.
- [25:47]
B
I felt like he needs to be on paper. So all of the stuff I did for Good Ship was digital.
- [25:56]
C
Yeah.
- [25:57]
B
Because you've got a light behind that it works really well. But I did another book using Procreate. I did a book using Procreate and when I saw the Procreate drawings on paper, they didn't give me the same gorgeous feeling because you don't have the light behind it. I know loads of people do amazing books on Procreate, but for me I didn't feel like it zinged enough. So for the book I decided to go back to paper. So he does look a bit different, doesn't he?
- [26:23]
C
There's something really sweetly old fashioned about the traditional analogue illustrations and the format that it's in. There's a kind of nostalgia to it, isn't there? But with lots of the humor in it is just brilliant. The characters are so lovely, but I love the masterclass of all the different pages and process that the book went through.
- [26:44]
A
You see the COVID how many?
- [26:46]
B
Oh, the big deal, isn't it? We did so many versions. It's really weird. Sometimes in picture books I'll draw it. I'll have an idea for a book and draw the COVID first a sketch of the COVID and then go get the contract, do the book, everything. And then we get I finished all of the insides. And we'll say, what will the COVID be like? And I'll say, do you remember the first drawing I ever did? And they say, that's it. Do that. That happens a lot. But with Salty it was a struggle. I don't really know why. It took quite a lot. I feel like started off with something very simple, went right around the houses, getting very complicated, really complicated, then realizing it was too complicated and going back to the beginning. I'm so happy with it now. It's brilliant. But it was a long journey to get there.
- [27:35]
A
I remember at Bologna last year, you were trying to hide the temporary cover from anyone.
- [27:40]
B
Yeah, they take a little. Oh, sorry, my beep is going off because of my car park. I'll have to go and move the car. But yeah, at Bologna they make a little rough version of your book to sell co editions with and just build up some excitement. We hadn't got there with a cover yet and every time they were picking up to show somebody, I was quietly like, oh, dying inside. No, it's not ready. But yeah, it's brilliant now. I love it.
- [28:04]
C
So you can pre order the book, can't you?
- [28:06]
B
You can pre order it. Pre order it now. And that does us a huge favor, doesn't it? Because gives booksellers that confidence to order a pile of them rather than one spine out on a shelf where it just disappears. Yeah.
- [28:19]
A
And if you've already pre ordered it, thank you very much. And yeah, so the masterclass thing, I'll put the link in the show notes, but basically you just go on there once you've pre ordered, put your details in and then you get the video masterclass immediately.
- [28:32]
C
It's really nice as well. You'll be writing your own book by the end of that.
- [28:35]
B
Yeah. Do you mind that we put you in it, Tanya?
- [28:38]
C
No, I love being in it. I didn't have to do any work, I just appeared in it. No, I love being part of it.
- [28:47]
A
We'll see you at Bologna if you're there.
- [28:49]
B
Yeah. Or masterclass.
- [28:51]
C
So see you next week.
- [28:52]
B
Bye. Sam.