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Katie
Okay, we've had a few questions on similar. This similar topic, and that is people wanting to be an illustrator, but they've got a job, maybe a good job, and they're like, where do I begin? How do I step by step, become a paid illustrator? But and also in feeling behind, I.
Sam
Wish there was a step by step. Shall we try and work a step by step out now?
Emma
Yeah.
Sam
What would a step by step be?
Katie
Step one, Draw.
Emma
Draw.
Katie
Lots and lots.
Sam
Draw. Draw.
Katie
Yeah.
Sam
Step three, draw.
Katie
Existential crisis.
Sam
Yeah.
Emma
Yeah.
Sam
Hate everything you make for a while.
Katie
Yeah.
Sam
Then you think it's geniusly brilliant, then you realize, no, it's probably average. Then you get a really big piece of work and you think it's a big breakthrough, and then it's not. And then you accept a piece of work you didn't really want to do and then that's a big breakthrough. It's a winding old path. I don't think we can do a step by step.
Katie
We had a brief chat before hitting record and basically there's so many things you can't control. I think the elements you can control of becoming an illustrator are literally just like, draw, share your work, draw some more, tell people you're an illustrator.
Emma
You know, that's exactly it, isn't it? Yeah. Get to the point where you're. You can expose yourself and show your work. That's part two, isn't it? It's like getting over the hump. But there is just loads of drawing to do. First of all, making images until you're in a position to love. Now, you don't always love what you do, but you feel comfortable. You think, okay, that I think that's me. I think I'm here. And the variables between the different types of work that I make get smaller and smaller until I can trust myself not to do extremely different work that might surprise an art director and give them a heart attack.
Katie
Yeah. Because you want people to trust you and know what to expect.
Sam
Yeah. Yeah. I think maybe if you, if you're doing another job and in the background you're working towards being an illustrator, then a good step is to share the work you're making as an illustrator so that people can see you as an illustrator. You know, put do a website with a really simple folio on it, call yourself an illustrator.
Emma
Potentially open. And Instagram, it's not too late to jump on that boat. But I think I'm just thinking, when we started from college, the first time we showed our work to people was when you got a job and so it was a kind of extreme double whammy that you'd only showed it privately to art directors in an office, in a portfolio, not all over the Internet. And then when that job would be printed in a magazine, you'd be like, oh my God, I feel like everyone see me with my clothes off. And you'd hide and usually, you know, if you were lucky, you'd be really excited and it was brilliant and you wanted to show everyone else. But quite often in the early days it was scary. Those are the only times you got used to exposing yourself. So social media and your website now, even if it is scary, offers a great opportunity to overcome the exposure ick feeling. Just get on with it.
Sam
I like how much control you've got over what you share on a website and the Internet because you don't have to say you get commissioned to do a piece of work and it ends up being a stressful, difficult job and you don't like the art director or whatever. And so in the end the work isn't what you wanted. You've got the, you've, you can make all of your own decisions about how you present yourself. You can show the amazing rough drawing you did and then you can write a list of clients underneath and not actually show the results. So you can curate who you are much more than you could back then. Yeah, yeah.
Emma
I did a job a couple of years ago that almost lasted a year and when it came out it was such a long winded job and it had been quite. Not over art directed but the stakeholders had a lot of say in what went in. It became over detailed and over realistic. I was like, God, that's a whole year and I don't want to show it anymore. But I found I could clip into, crop in bits and just show that. Like you say the curation thing, self curation, it's such a gift. So for people who are thinking, I don't want to go on social media, I don't want to show my work, do it. Because it's way better than waiting for a magazine to come out every three months and then hiding under the covers for a long while.
Katie
So that nice thing of seeing your job as an investor in your side thing as well. I like that idea, what you're having.
Emma
A job that brings, pays the rent and allows you to play with the freelance illustration side of things.
Katie
Yeah. Because it means you've got, especially if you're part time, I think part time is the dream. But because then you've got time to do Illustration. I think working full time and trying to build an illustration career on the side is hard. I don't know. Like, I remember when I got. I was a graphic designer straight out of Unique, working full time and I'd come home in the evening and be.
Sam
Like, time to be an illustrator.
Katie
And it was impossible. I was exhausted. I just couldn't do it. And it was. I felt like, oh, I'm never going to be an illustrator because I've got no energy left. But then when I was working part time in retail, I had some energy left on my days off to actually do illustration, but I was earning less, so it was sort of a trade off. But then the consistent income from my retail job meant that I could consistently put effort and energy into my illustration stuff when it wasn't earning me any money.
Emma
Because the worst situation, I think, is to ditch the job full time or part time and go right, hello, I'm an illustrator, I'm here. And then there's tumbleweed. And then someone offers you an awful job and you just have to say yes. You're forced into taking on things that don't help you build a voice or a portfolio and you're kind of dragged in lots of different directions because you have to say yes to everything.
Katie
Yeah, you want that job as a backup, don't you? So you can be like, that budget's terrible. No, thank you. I'm going to carry on doing my.
Emma
Own work in the meantime, I think doing the. Because when we left college, most people taught anyway. So the. At the time, the hourly rates for being a lecturer in. In illustration were quite good in terms of cost of living. I don't know whether they are now, but it was perfectly normal for everyone to lecture for at least a day or two days a week and then work on their illustration. So. And it kind of doesn't matter what job you're doing. It's almost better to be away from creative stuff to keep your brain fresh. If they're too kind of rolled into each other, they can be supportive. But it's nice to have the contrast sometimes.
Katie
Definitely.
Sam
What was the other part of the question? Was there something about. About being behind, feeling like you're behind?
Katie
Yes.
Sam
We were just joking before we came on. Katie said that she feels 100% ahead and probably could take three years off drawing now she's so ahead.
Katie
Who feels ahead in their illustration career? Nobody. Nobody feels ahead of anything. I wish, I wish it did feel ahead. That'd be amazing. Maybe feeling behind is totally normal and I don't even think about feeling behind. Like, behind what?
Emma
Yeah, there's no markers, is there? There's no pointers to show where you're at. Maybe that that person has kind of imposed some structure that doesn't exist to make them feel behind. I wonder what signifies that for them.
Sam
Maybe they think that everybody is an illustrator by the time they're 24. You know what I mean? Maybe they've got an idea in their head. Hang on a minute. Everybody else started this before I even knew I wanted to be an illustrator. Yeah, but there are plenty of people who find their career later in lives.
Emma
And also perhaps they've been, you know, adjacent to illustration. Maybe they've been a textile designer or a graphic designer. In fact, in the world of illustration, some of the best illustrators have been graphic designers. This is my personal opinion, because I like graphic design, and so I end up liking that kind of illustration that looks that way. But lots of people have left graphic design to become illustrators much later in life. Maybe in their 30s and 40s. You could be a textile designer. A lot of print and pattern people become illustrators when they didn't perceive themselves as that earlier. But a lot of people just drop the corporate job and start doing a course like Freak Flag and realize. Sam Bedroom Floor Productions was a prop designer, wasn't she? For a long while. She made three. Maybe not prop design, but she made 3D stuff, which is. She said her. That's how she got her name. And she's our Illustrator of the Month. And she did our courses and was there from the first sailing. And now she's. Has she got a piece in the bologna?
Sam
She was. She was long listed. She didn't actually make it through to the very end, but she got really, you know, she was through to the finalist, which is amazing.
Emma
And then there's Tara, who was an architect.
Katie
I think a lot of architects, people. If. It almost feels like people when they go to choose what to study, their family or external influences make them pick something sensible with a concrete path and a job. And then they get there and think, oh, I really did want to be an illustrator, though, and then sort of drift into it later. But I think it's better doing it later because you're wiser, aren't you? Yeah.
Emma
And I think braver about your career. I was just thinking with someone else. Data scientists were a popular career on Freak Flourish, and that just blew our mind.
Sam
That was so strange during lockdown when we first launched all of the data analysts who we have.
Katie
Yeah. Hello there. How have we brought you here?
Emma
I think if anyone's listening to this and they have done the courses and have ended up doing some illustration work or, you know, being part of the illustration community and you came from a completely different background, will you write in and tell us? Because it'd be really good to tell these stories to other people, because there are facts from people who, you know, there are stories that have turned out happily. You know, the people have become who they wanted to be in terms of illustration, and it'd be great to have those as part of either our podcast or on our website.
Sam
I think if you've got another job and you want to be an illustrator, number one is to start calling yourself an illustrator and put your work out there.
Katie
Yep, that's.
Sam
That is the best way to get started. Don't call yourself a baby. We illustrator or I want to be an illustrator. Just call yourself an illustrator. Put some work on a website and you're off.
Emma
One of our illustrators wrote in to say, I have just removed the word doodles from my Instagram. We were like, who are you? Because doodles, people are going to offer you a tenner for your drawings.
Sam
Oh, it must be really quick and easy for you to do those doodles.
Katie
A little subconscious eye twitch. Quite often people email me and they're like, oh, could you come and do some live doodles? And yes, I can, but don't call them that.
Emma
I know it's like doodles and cartoons or sort of wave. Like, I just do this for a hobby. It's every professional just messing about.
Katie
Yeah, Yeah.
Emma
I don't really need much money. Yeah.
Sam
I overheard a good conversation once when I was teaching where the professor on the course was saying, oh, you need to get this ready for the show that's coming up, you know, in the next couple of weeks. And she said, oh, that's okay. I'll pootle away and get it ready. And he said, do not use the word pootle away and get. You are going to pull your hair out with this word. Don't pretend it's otherwise. Don't use the word. I'll just pootle away. Doodle away and pull it together.
Katie
Let's have a play.
Sam
No, don't use it. And I thought, that's brilliant. Of course, you shouldn't use that language when you're a student. Your tutors understand you're not pootling away. But if you go and use that language when you're with an art director, they're going to think, oh, it Must be really easy. We can pay them a tiny amount.
Emma
It's so difficult, isn't it? Because use that minimizing language because it's a creative activity activity and we kind of undermine ourselves.
Sam
I think the word play is the one I find hardest not to use because I genuinely do go and play. I genuinely do.
Emma
Yeah.
Sam
And when I say play, I mean something quite serious, like I am doing something that I do really value. I forget other people might not interpret it like that.
Katie
There's a weird thing like if you enjoy it in society, generally, people like, oh, if you enjoy it, you shouldn't be charging for it. But you could totally. You don't have to pay fun tax, you could just have a good time and get well paid for it. But in the wider world, yeah, communicating that you are doing a serious thing, using your brain, maybe that's the hard bit.
Emma
So the step by step to illustration.
Katie
Yeah.
Emma
Just work a lot. I think some people think it will come quickly. We have to be really honest. It isn't.
Katie
It's for some unicorns. It might. I feel like I saw. I remember in 2012 when I graduated, it was on Twitter a lot. X. Whatever it's called in those days, it was Twitter and, you know, following other illustrators and Emma Block at the time seemed, from the outside, just leave uni and stratospheric success like book deals and illustrations everywhere. It was amazing to see and I think there are always people like that sprinkled in. But what you don't see is people that leave uni or don't even go to uni and are quietly becoming illustrators, training themselves, getting better and better in the background while they've got a boring job to keep them alive. And it takes years, annoyingly. Yeah.
Emma
It is a bit of a vocation thing, isn't it? You need to really want it. It's not a career choice that you can sort of sideways slip into thinking, I don't like this job, I think I'll become an illustrator. It's something. It will only work if you want it so badly that you're prepared to sacrifice quite a bit of time and, you know, and your life to it. Unless you're a unicorn, as you say.
Sam
I find situations. I don't know if you find this, but situations where you meet new people, say you go to somebody's party, you don't know them, you don't know all the people that are there and you end up at a party and a stranger or a few strangers say, so what do you Do. And then I have. I hate it. I absolutely hate it. Because I'll say I write and illustrate children's books and their faces light up like, oh, like, what whimsy? What beautifulness? How childish and beautiful that must be. And I feel like saying it's hard work. And I feel in this turmoil of, shall I even tell them what I do? Because they're instantly going to have an image that doesn't feel 100 true to me. I think I need some therapy about.
Emma
This, actually bring that up.
Katie
Yeah. No, but you're right, because people have never said idea.
Sam
They're like, oh, yeah, cute. Yeah. Yeah. I find it really hard to tell strangers unless they're. Unless they're already an illustrator or they work in the business. But complete, you know, people completely in another world to mine. I find it really hard to tell them what I do because their face just does something weird that's not. Not related to me at all.
Emma
Slog, sacrifice. Missed out on every holiday going. I don't go out at night. I just work away, get obsessed with.
Katie
My work because I love it. But then I don't love it anymore because I'm too obsessed with it. My favorite party question. Question. It's not really related, but I went to a posh party once and somebody said, do you work? I was like, what? Yes. Amazing. Who?
Sam
What?
Katie
That's just a different class.
Emma
Yeah. I was gonna say that's very thoughtful of them because they don't want to steam in with the. What do you do? Just in case.
Katie
Oh, I'm a wife. I don't know. What's the options there? I have horse. I thought that was brilliant. Yeah.
Sam
Posh people party. I always remember Mum telling me about going to a party like that. And somebody said there'd been a big storm and they said, oh, did you lose many trees in this? Because they'd lost forests. Mama was like, no.
Katie
A tile blew off.
Emma
Because this house is old. We tried to get insurance once and they said there wasn't. Well, we do have insurance, but this was a proper heritage insurance. I thought, maybe I have to get that. And they said to me, so in the garden, do you have anything ornamental, like little bridges or ponds? I'm clearly in the wrong place. It is an old house, but we don't have an estate.
Katie
Sadly not.
Emma
I think my microphone's going to fall down. It slipped slowly.
Katie
It's a signed.
Sam
Call it.
Katie
Yeah, an end to this episode.
Emma
If you couldn't hear me much in this podcast, I think it's because the microphone was getting lower by the minute, but I didn't realize it.
Katie
You're holding it. Well, we'll see you in the next one. See you next week.
Sam
Bye.
Katie
Bye.
Podcast Summary: The Good Ship Illustration – "How to become a paid illustrator (The step-by-step guide! lol)"
Release Date: March 28, 2025
In this engaging episode of The Good Ship Illustration, hosts Helen Stephens, Katie Chappell, and Tania Willis delve into the intricate journey of transforming from an aspiring artist to a paid illustrator. The conversation blends humor with practical advice, offering listeners a realistic perspective on building a sustainable career in illustration.
The episode kicks off with Katie addressing a common listener dilemma: aspiring illustrators who hold other jobs are unsure where to begin in their quest to become paid professionals.
Katie (00:27):
"People want to be an illustrator, but they've got a job, maybe a good job, and they're like, where do I begin? How do I step by step, become a paid illustrator?"
Sam and Emma humorously illustrate the complexities of creating a straightforward roadmap, highlighting the unpredictable nature of creative careers.
Sam (00:44):
"Wish there was a step by step. Shall we try and work a step by step out now?"
The hosts quickly realize that a linear, step-by-step approach is oversimplified. Instead, they emphasize the winding and often tumultuous journey artists face.
Katie (00:58):
"Existential crisis."
Sam (01:00):
"Yeah. Hate everything you make for a while... It's a winding old path. I don't think we can do a step by step."
Despite the complexities, the trio outlines foundational actions essential for aspiring illustrators.
The foremost step is to draw regularly, honing one's skills through continuous practice.
Katie (00:50):
"Step one, Draw."
Emma (00:51):
"Draw lots and lots."
Following consistent drawing, sharing work is crucial for visibility and feedback.
Sam (02:11):
"Share the work you're making as an illustrator so that people can see you as an illustrator."
Creating a strong personal brand by declaring oneself as an illustrator helps in being recognized and trusted.
Katie (02:32):
"Put a website with a really simple folio on it, call yourself an illustrator."
Many artists grapple with the anxiety of showcasing their work publicly. The hosts offer strategies to mitigate these fears.
Utilizing platforms like Instagram allows artists to expose themselves and their work, gradually overcoming the "exposure ick" feeling.
Emma (03:24):
"Social media and your website now... offers a great opportunity to overcome the exposure ick feeling. Just get on with it."
Artists have greater control over their online presence, enabling them to curate their portfolios effectively.
Sam (03:55):
"You can curate who you are much more than you could back then."
Emma (04:31):
"Self-curation, it's such a gift."
Transitioning to a full-time illustration career can be daunting. The hosts discuss the merits of maintaining a side job while building one's illustration portfolio.
Working part-time provides the energy and time needed for illustration, whereas full-time jobs may lead to exhaustion and hinder creative pursuits.
Katie (05:03):
"When I was working part time in retail, I had some energy left on my days off to actually do illustration..."
A stable income from a part-time job allows illustrators to consistently invest time and effort into their craft without the pressure of immediate financial returns.
Emma (05:31):
"It's a trade off. But then the consistent income from my retail job meant that I could consistently put effort and energy into my illustration stuff..."
Feelings of inadequacy or being "behind" peers are common among emerging illustrators. The hosts offer reassurance and context.
Katie (06:44):
"Nobody feels ahead of anything. I wish, I wish it did feel ahead. That'd be amazing."
Emma (07:07):
"There's no markers, is there? There's no pointers to show where you're at."
Everyone's career trajectory is unique, and comparisons can be misleading.
Sam (07:20):
"Maybe they think that everybody is an illustrator by the time they're 24... but there are plenty of people who find their career later in lives."
Many successful illustrators transition from fields like graphic design, architecture, or prop design, demonstrating that diverse backgrounds can enrich one’s illustration work.
Emma (08:37):
"She was a prop designer and now she's our Illustrator of the Month."
Articulating one's role as an illustrator without undermining its value is crucial in professional settings.
Terms like "doodles" or "playing" can inadvertently devalue one's work. The hosts advocate for professional terminology.
Katie (10:21):
"Don't call yourself an illustrator. Put some work on a website and you're off."
Sam (10:33):
"Don't use minimizing language like 'I'll just doodle away'."
Effective communication can influence how others perceive and value an illustrator's work, ensuring fair compensation.
Sam (12:03):
"Use professional language to communicate that you are doing a serious thing."
The journey requires time, commitment, and passion. Success isn't instantaneous but rather a result of persistent effort.
Katie (12:23):
"It's for some unicorns. It might. But what you don't see is people... quietly becoming illustrators, training themselves..."
Emma (13:12):
"You need to really want it. It will only work if you want it so badly that you're prepared to sacrifice quite a bit."
The episode wraps up with reflections on the challenges and rewards of pursuing illustration, emphasizing persistence and the importance of community.
Emma (14:25):
"But it is way better than waiting for a magazine to come out every three months and then hiding under the covers for a long while."
Katie (15:02):
"My work because I love it. But then I don't love it anymore because I'm too obsessed with it."
This episode serves as a candid and insightful guide for aspiring illustrators, blending practical advice with personal anecdotes to illuminate the path toward a fulfilling career in illustration.